The Thursday Show: What happened at High Point? Plus: Milan Design Week takeaways

24:44It's really become this this crazy carnival. And there's really the sense that, you know, the porridge has kind of kind of gotten too hot, even if people do keep coming year after year. It's funny. It makes me think of the old Yogi Berra quote about how nobody goes there anymore. it's too crowded. And I think that for a lot of people, they love to complain about all the activations and all the fashion brands coming in and all the people who just want to see and be seen. But you have to imagine that there's some benefit to hundreds of thousands of people descending on this city and wanting to take part in the culture of it and the design aspects of it.

25:23And I mean, High Point would love to have these kind of numbers, right? I know. It's funny. It's like people from all over the world come here. It's the worst thing ever. Yeah. I mean, I should say that the weird component of that take, like this idea that, oh, Milan Design Week is over, is that for the people who are actually presenting at the fair and in the city, you know, it's not quite so simple. I think these people are happy to have hundreds of thousands of people. I mean, it's a double edged sword, right? I think no one likes the fact that the city gets crowded and hotels are 10 times more expensive and you can't get a reservation and all that.

25:57But I think, you know, for all the people complaining about it, maybe rightfully so, there's people who are, you know, this is hundreds of thousands of people all paying attention to design. What's to complain about? I mean, I think we should talk about the fair a little bit too. You know, a lot of what I've been saying really more applies to, you know, all the activations in town. The actual trade show, Salone del Mobile, is it's sort of a really interesting spot as well because, you know, after COVID, like a lot of European trade shows, it's kind of struggled to come back to the volume that it once had.

26:25I mean, this is an enormous trade show. I should be clear. You know, people tell you, oh, it's not quite what it used to be. You walk in and it's just like a fire hose of people coming at you from all around the world. It takes an hour to go walk from one side to the other. The fact that it was, you know, bigger before boggled my mind because it's so incredibly impressive. But yeah, you know, know, they have had some of the big like tentpole Italian brands leave to show up in the city, because that's, you know, where some of the cultural action is. You know, I had a really good time there, too.

26:53I do think that, you know, the president Maria Poros is young, very energized. She's doing a lot to try and shake things up and try new things. I didn't get the sense that it was a wasteland or, oh, my gosh, this is struggling so much. But it's just an interesting time for trade shows in general. And I think, you know, some of that tension of, you know, do I show up in the city? Do I show up in the town? What do I need an event for? Where do I put my money? Is, you know, weighing on the minds of brands who have exhibited there historically and are maybe trying to figure out what they're going to do next year.

27:20I do wonder for designers, what your sense of, is it worth it for them to come over? And if so, what do you imagine them getting out of it? Yeah. I mean, I think it is worth it. Like it's one of the, it's completely singular. It's a totally unique event. It's totally unlike anything else. And it's a very extreme event. I think it's kind of a must visit and I'm really glad I got to go. I think the reality of it though is that you have to go with a reasonable set of expectations about what you can get out of it. I think it's very inspirational. I think you may encounter a company who will do business with you if you're lucky.

27:57But I think it's exhausting too. I think you have to keep that in mind as well. There's a design writer, Leonore Epstein, who has a great Substack called Shmada who talked about how, you know, it's the one design event where you can have FOMO even if you're actually there. And I certainly experienced that. It's definitely a must-visit event, but I'm not sure if it's a yearly necessity for every interior designer, certainly. Yeah. Well, I mean, it sounds like you had an extraordinary time and I'm eager to hear from others who were there. I saw some people in High Point who had just come from there.

28:31They were exhausted too, Fred. But it sounds like there were incredible things to see. All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including a roundup of the latest showroom openings and a closer look at Green Rose expansion plans. But first, a quick break.

28:55Spring Market was an exciting time in the Chelsea House showroom with the introduction of Found by Eric Ross, plus 300 delightful new creations from the Chelsea House design team. Designers enjoyed a week filled with inspiring new ideas, unique lighting introductions, furniture and mirrors using a variation of materials with special touches and scores of fresh decorative accessories. Take a moment to experience them all today and refresh your imagination at chelseahouseinc.com. If you're in the middle of sourcing, Lalloy's latest introductions are now available online. That includes the new Rain collection, many other new collections from the brand, and the newest designs from Rifle Paper Company by Lalloy.

29:42You can explore it all, connect with a sales rep, or find the showroom nearest you at lalloyrugs.com.

29:55And we're back. I'm not Dennis Scully. I'm the other guy. But don't worry, Dennis Scully is here. Hi, Dennis. Hey, Fred. Hi. And Caitlin, editor-in-chief, is here as well. Hi, Caitlin. Hi there. I should say Caitlin Peterson. Should have gotten that in there, too, as if you didn't already know. Anyway, I was unable to make it to High Point, North Carolina for spring market. I was in the... Why is that, Fred? I was in the High Point, North Carolina of Europe, which is Milan, Italy. But Caitlin and Dennis were on hand to check out High Point Market, and they're here to bring us a report on it. Let's get started with a quick vibe check.

30:30In a word, what was the energy like on the mean streets of High Point? Caitlin, let's start with you. For me, this market was full of joy. I think maybe we just all hit rock bottom and we're rebounding back up. I'm not sure. But I think so many people, you would walk into a showroom and the energy was, you know, look what we've done. There was a moment of inspiration. You weren't met first with the challenges of the marketplace. You were met with their enthusiasm about what they were launching. And I think that was just sort of palpable everywhere you went. Cool. Joy. Dennis, bring us down. What was your, what was marketing the word for you?

31:06No, no. I want to echo that. I think my word was unshaken. And I think to Caitlin's point, I think the people that you saw at market were just, yep, yep, you've thrown it all at us and we're still here and we're going to go have some fun and we're going to take you around and show you game tables galore. And you're just you're just going to have a good time. And I think people were genuinely having a good old time at market, despite everything that we all know is going on in the world. Joy Unshaken, I think is a good title for something. For a self-help book? Yeah, there we go. So in terms of raw numbers, I know the High Point Market Authority provided what the actual attendance figures were.

31:53Caitlin, what were they? And let's also get into how it actually felt on the streets. Yeah, I mean, I think when you look at official registration numbers, this market was pretty flat compared to last fall. The number of companies registered to attend was down 1 % from fall. The number of contacts was down 0.1%. So the companies who did come brought more team members, which is pretty great. And I think the small micro adjustments from last fall aren't really going to be a surprise to anyone. Larger retailers were down 4%. International buyers were up 1%. It was really small fluctuations, but pretty much the same story that we were telling last fall.

32:34I think the one thing that the Market Authority was really excited about was they had over 1 ,200 new buyer companies registered this market. So firms who had never been to market before had signed up and showed up and were walking the mean streets of High Point this season. How did it actually feel? You know, I mean, I think market always has a mood aside from the numbers. And, you know, with joy, what was it, unbroken, Dennis? With unshaken joy. Unshaken, I'm sorry. With unshaken joy. Dennis, how did it feel to you? Fred, as you well know, there are always people that want to tell you, oh, attendance feels light.

33:11It feels really slow. People love to complain about that. But honestly, I was in several wildly busy showrooms. Four Hands was its usual packed partying self. Arteriors was mobbed when I stopped by there. Lalloy was hopping. I mean, I think it was clear that many designers had decided, okay, I don't need to go two times every year, right? And I get that, and probably some of them don't. It was also clear that there were a lot of international buyers and market participants who were not on hand. I bumped into one of my favorite Canadian designers who told me that she was nervous about even posting pictures from High Point because so many of her fellow Canadians were giving her a hard time about showing up.

34:00And a lot of them had told her candidly that they weren't going because they didn't feel comfortable at this moment in time. And I think we've made plenty of international market participants not feel comfortable at this moment. So I don't think that was a big surprise. And Caitlin, as you pointed out in your recap article that aired on the site, there were just a lot of strikes against market this year. It was sort of overlapped a little bit with Salone. There was also people were booking tickets in the middle of the whole TSA shutdown, if I recall correctly. And so the fact that the numbers were flat is no small feat.

34:34So were there a lot of Cadillacs driving around? Were people basket? Were they, do people have big piles of tariff refund money that you could just pick up as you walked by? Was that a hot topic at market in all seriousness, Caitlin? What was the tariff refund chit chat? You know, you'd go into a showroom and you'd ask, you know, a CEO about it and they just kind of go, ugh. Free money, ugh. But I mean, how free is it? You know, I think there was a sense that, you know, look, like if and when this comes, that's great, but I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna wait. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that wire transfer to clear.

35:06You know, I think there was also just a sense that, you know, you may get some money back, but this is no windfall. Even if the number is big, it's sort of nothing compared to the way that you've really had to squeeze as your margins were compressed in this tariff environment. I predicted last week that this was going to be, I think, rocket fuel for some great new project. That's not true. I think very much everywhere I went, people said like, this might be nice, it might be helpful, but only because this has been such a challenging period. Dennis, what about you? Yeah, I think a lot of people, to Caitlin's point, were very philosophical about it.

35:45I think the people who I spoke to who had really given thought to the fact that, yes, there's meaningful money coming back, told me off the record, when they do get the money back, they're holding on to it and rebuilding their balance sheet and really preparing for what many of them imagine is still going to be a pretty challenging environment for the next six to 20 years. months. And so I think they were feeling, listen, if we're fortunate enough to actually get a big check back, great, because we're going to need it for the next storms that are coming. Or several of them said, listen, clearly it's an acquisition friendly environment right now.

36:26And maybe some of that money gets put towards that in the future. But nobody was doing a happy dance around great big tariff refunds. That was clear. And nobody wanted to go on record also saying, oh, yeah, we figured out a plan to give it back to a bunch of our designer clients and we've got the mechanism in place. No one was having that conversation. I will say a couple of brands who had identified a tariff surcharge, you know, when brands were weighing how they wanted to pass along this cost to customers, some of them, you know, just raised their prices and baked it in. Some of them put that tariff surcharge as a separate line item.

37:02The brands that put it as a line item, sort of favoring transparency, a lot of them have heard from their customers saying, well, you know, if you get that money back, we've got some receipts where we'd like our money back too, which I think is also just an added complication to getting that refund, is figuring out how you're going to answer some of those inbounds that are starting to come in. I know. It's so terribly ironic, of course, because a lot of people did that because they didn't want to create a permanent price increase. You know what I mean? Yes. No good deed goes unpunished. Exactly.

37:31I do think, honestly, the conversation is going to change a little bit if and when those checks actually do come in, I still think there's just this sense that, hey, is it really going to happen given all the roller coaster everyone's been riding for the past year? So maybe we'll have another conversation if the check's clear. Fred, just to put a bow on what you were saying, a lot of people said to me, listen, if and when we actually get this money back, where business is at the time will really determine a lot of how we're feeling and what our plans might be. And And I think that that makes a lot of sense.

38:03High Point Cadillac dealership is really waiting, watching the clock on that. How are designers feeling? You know, we've talked a little bit about how there's been some empty project pipelines recently and people have been feeling the pain a little bit. What were your conversations with designers like Caitlin at High Point? You know, I think last market, there were some people who would come up to you at a party and be like, I don't have any jobs. I don't really know why I'm here. And that did not happen this market. I think if you were in that situation, a lot of designers stayed home. And then if you did come to market, it was because your pipeline had really rebounded.

38:37You had work. You were shopping for projects. You know, I saw a lot of people who were looking for specific projects because this market sort of happened to land right as they were in the conceptual phase for a lot of their new, new, new work. The mood was much better, certainly, than maybe markets in 2025. Dennis, did you see the same? Very much so. I think to your point, Caitlin, I think if you weren't busy, you weren't there. And I get that. I think the people that were at market were keen to see things. And many people told me, including friend of the show, Linda Banks, told me she bought quite a bit, both for her shop and her firm.

39:15And so I think people that I chatted with were there to do business. So I'd be surprised if we don't hear some good reports from companies coming off of High Point. I think brands felt the same. You know, obviously, at the beginning, everyone tells you market is slow. But by Saturday, Sunday, especially Monday, you know, I circled back to the Hamilton-Ren corridor there to IHFC. And a lot of brands there said they had sort of record attendance, record badge scans, and that they were feeling really optimistic about the quotes, the information they had shared, and the enthusiasm their collections were getting with designers who seemed primed to buy.

39:54So even the months to come, you know, seem like they're looking pretty good. Yeah. I mean, I walked into one showroom and they immediately told me, Friday, we did a million dollars. So I mean, you know, so again, I mean, I think people can nitpick about the attendance and the numbers and all of that. I think people that were there were very focused. And I think designers were upbeat. And some of the how many retailers are left, I'm not sure. But I mean, I got the sense that even the retailers felt that they needed merchandise. I guess I'm curious what you guys think is driving that optimism from both designers and brands, just because there's so many maybe down signals out there.

40:36The housing market's still pretty frozen. There's still a kind of on again, off again war. The stock market's pretty high, but it's been high and low. Fuel prices are up. What do you guys think is pushing all this optimism? Not that I'm against it. I'm just curious if there's a reason for it that you guys were able to suss out. Caitlin, what do you think? I sat next to a designer at dinner who said a lot of the new work in her pipeline was from clients who had looked at 2025 and sort of frozen. They had this project that they needed to get done, but they didn't have the confidence to move forward.

41:06And at some point, I think there were enough bad compounding signals in their life that they just came to the conclusion that it can't get worse. It's only going to get more expensive. And now was as good a time as any. That's so dark, but it's also, I think, very true and maybe sort of a collective energy. I felt that sentiment a lot, this market, just that, you know, it's not like doing a design project is ever going to cost less. And so now might as well be your moment. And that, you know, clients had jumped on board, designers were responding to that and just trying to move forward. Like chaos and confusion have become the new normal.

41:43So people are just like, why not? I do think, and Alex Shuford made this point to me in a conversation that I had with him, that had we arrived at market, Fred, to your point, and the stock market had been down 15 or 20 percent, a very different environment. I think the fact that the stock market was hanging in there and that the AI story was still feeling positive and driving a lot of the big tech stocks and that in fact, those big tech stocks had recovered quite a bit from their recent pullbacks, I think was giving the market a lot more confidence than it would have had were the stock market not hanging in there.

42:24I heard a lot of whispers in the margins just that, you know, well, the second the market crashes, like we're toast, you know, but I think that for now, you know. Yeah, exactly. For now, the weather was good and the market is up. Well, let's talk about AI a little bit then as well. You notice I feel like we're, I don't know, eight markets in to the AI revolution, so to speak. And sometimes you feel like it's the only thing people are interested in. Sometimes you feel like it doesn't matter at all. I guess I'm curious how it reared its head at market. If it did, Caitlin, what do you think? The number of AI-themed events really stood out to me.

42:55Just that in all of the programming and conversations happening at market, so many brands wanted to host conversations. So many designers wanted to chime in and say, like, here's how the best way, you know, here's the best way to use AI in your business. And then I think on the product side, some brands were talking about just using it to stress test some of their ideas. You know, I went in one showroom where, you know, the CEO was like, oh, like, I wanted to know what the base of this chair would look like different. So I just put it into Claude and we tried out a different base. We tested out a different stripe.

43:24You know, do we want to build this? Do we want to try it? and that it was a good way to validate a creative team's idea before you started building prototypes. I think those are probably some of the more common refrains that I heard this season. Dinos, what about you? I definitely had a lot of conversations about AI job displacement. And to that point, Fred, one CEO gifted me two audiobooks to listen to, which I think will tell you everything about how this CEO was feeling. One book is entitled The End of the World is Just Beginning, and the other, If Anybody Builds It, Everyone Dies. No unbroken joy from that person.

44:05No, no. So there was – it was interesting, and I had this conversation with several different CEOs who really wanted to talk about, okay, how long is it going to take before this huge swath of our customer base really is displaced, and what does it mean, and how do we plan for it? And does it also coincide with, as one CEO pointed out to me, a huge chunk of baby boomers turning 80 and maybe many of them start to pass on as well? So, I mean, for all of the sort of high energy and the unshaken joyful energy among many on the floors, I was surprised that the the A.I. subject so quickly with many turned to what are we going to do about this this real job loss issue?

44:55Well, it's hard to plan for the robot apocalypse, I would imagine. It is really funny how the conversation on the one hand is here's a cool tip. On the other hand, it's like, well, we're all going to die in 10 years. So so what do we do about that? You can optimize your workflow until then. Yeah, exactly. Why not carve out a little more time until we're all taken over? Yeah, what about other hot topics at market, Caitlin? I know you had a lot of conversations about foam. What's going on there? You know, about a month ago, there was a fire in a chemical plant in Houston that is one of the key ingredients getting foam to the furniture industry.

45:28And, you know, I don't know that we're really feeling the effects of that now, right? Those shortages aren't going to be reflected in any of the price tags that were on the floor of products at market. Confidentially, a couple brand leaders were saying that they've taken three or four price increases on foam in the last month or two and that more is coming. Some brands are starting to feel sort of the restrictions as those chemicals are in short supply. Other brands are saying, look, we're okay because we are very important to our suppliers. And so they're flexing sort of that position to make sure that their foam supply is so far not disrupted.

46:07But it's definitely something that manufacturers are navigating and that was sort of lingering quietly in the margins. I think not a conversation anyone on the manufacturing side wanted to be having with their customers right now, but certainly something in the back of their minds and that I think all of us are going to start to see and feel in the next couple months to come. Maybe that's where all that tariff refund money will go. It's all going as a - No kidding. No Cadillacs, all foam. Did that come up for you as well, Dennis? What about higher fuel prices? I've noticed the fuel surcharge has been showing up a lot of designer invoices.

46:39I wonder if people talked about that. The foam issue came up in that several CEOs said to me, I'm surprised people aren't talking about this more. Several CEOs just said, of all the issues, this is a serious issue because many of them remember last time there was a foam shortage. And I remember it very well, too, because I was in a whole series of workrooms at the time and they all showed me where they had hidden foam in back rooms and extra spaces that they had rented. And so nobody wants to go back to that time and nobody wants to go back to, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. This lead time is going to start to get stretched out again because they're so happy to be over that.

47:19What were you going to say, Caitlin? I'll say it's not just lead times either. I mean, if you have ordered, you know, what you're going to put on your line for next week, the week after that, the week after that, and you don't have the foam for it, that's a whole line of your factory that sits with not that much to do because of a material shortage. And so, you know, the cost of having people come to work with no work for them to do also really start to compound some of those challenges. Yeah. I mean, interestingly, Fred, about the fuel charges, a couple of different companies told me that they had actually given a lot of their workers gas cards.

47:51Chadwick mentioned to me that they had given gas cards to workers in the factory and were trying to be very aware of the fact that this hits that percentage of the population much harder because fuel represents just a bigger overall percentage of the household budget. So it's real. And there wasn't a conversation, you know, so often when you go to North Carolina, when you come from New York, people in North Carolina, I'd love to tell you how inexpensive everything is relative to New York, but they weren't feeling that way this time around. Inflation was a huge topic of conversation across the board, just how expensive everything had gotten.

48:31And also just the issue with if this war does drag on the many other materials besides oil that are impacted that everyone is quite concerned about. All right. Well, we've hit fuel, foam, and AI. Let's pivot over to product. That's my transition there. What was going on? Was there a lot of new product? I feel like Market has been a little bit skimpy on big new debuts. What about this time, Caitlin? We had no shortage of exciting debuts this time. And I think that was maybe part of the energy, part of the mood on the street was just everywhere you walked in, there was great stuff to see. I think we've seen a lot in the last year, maybe a year or two of, hey, this was a bestseller, so we made it a console.

49:13And I think the story this market was, we tapped this designer collaboration, or we reached into our archive, or we commissioned this entire new product suite. And there was a lot of new, and it was beautiful. It was a very traditional-leaning market, but maybe modernized a little bit for today's customer. There was a real menswear moment happening, super tailored, lots of plaids, but also kind of a ruffled scalloped sweetness that was really just chic and fun. The introductions, showroom after showroom after showroom, were exciting and abundant. And it just felt great. Dennis, what was the ivory boucle index?

49:55Where are we at right now? You know, interestingly, I wasn't bombarded with ivory boucle. I don't know about you, Caitlin. I thought I saw a lot more dark green than I saw ivory boucle. And I thought there were actually some very sophisticated dark colors. I thought there were some highly marketable new products being introduced. I thought Barry Benson's new collection, this anniversary collection with Highland House, was really impressive. I thought David Phoenix has a new collection with Hickory Chair, which I also think I'm hoping to order a desk from there soon, David. So let's get on that.

50:36But I thought there were, yeah, I thought there were a lot of great products. I thought, you know, apropos of the unshaken joyfulness, and I joked about it at the top of the show, amazing how many mahjong tables were being introduced and just sort of game tables in general. Maybe you're not eating out as much. Maybe you're at home with a game table. And there are a couple other things I want to get to. But, Caitlin, what else sort of jumped out at you? I think what jumped out at me was really the splash that so many designer collaborations made this market. Duval Reynolds launched House of Duval, you know, his own brand within the Sheryl Furniture family of brands.

51:14And, you know, Dennis, you mentioned Barry Benson. But Charlotte Lucas had a beautiful line for Taylor King, David Phoenix. Naz Nazawa was back with Corbett Lighting for her second collection. and it was a showstopper. Abner Henry tapped four designers to do sort of vignette collections in its showroom that were just extraordinary and did maybe the most complete job I've ever seen of communicating effectively that they can really do everything. And it was pretty electric. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think Thomas Pheasant was introducing some pieces with Baker that were really impressive and sophisticated and no surprise there.

51:55And I know he's got a lot more coming up with them in the future, but that looked really beautiful. I also thought what Courtney Bishop did with Amadi and that entire space, and we'll talk about the whole design social pop-up space, but I thought that that was really brilliantly done. I loved how Courtney Bishop wove in some Varelin pieces and made them really colorful and fun and mixed in some vintage pieces as well in that display. I thought that was a place you wanted to stay and hang out. And I did. Well, let's talk about the design social pop-up then. How did that go? And were there any sort of interesting showroom moments that seemed like 313 space continues to be a winner?

52:38What was the sort of real estate sizzle on the streets, Caitlin? You know, I think we saw a lot of growth sort of at outskirts in different corners of market. And Amadi Collective with the design social pop-up is a great example of that. You know, it's located a little further afield, right? 313 space when it opened a few markets ago felt kind of far away, but it's so exciting that it really drew designers out to it. You walk two more blocks and you get to the Amadi Collective. It's the old Schwung space. It's pretty rustic, but they had really assembled this great group of, you know, a lot of independent boutique artisan-driven brands, including I think 27 design social pop-up exhibitors.

53:17And it was really fun to see fabric like that in High Point Market, to see nude, to see painterly, to see just a lot of small brands really showing up looking for connection. But I thought this was a really great way for them to connect with designers from all over the country. Dennis, did you see any cool showrooms or anything new that caught your eye? Well, I mean, just to echo what Caitlin was just saying about design social, I thought that was great. Brooks Morrison took me around and introduced me to every single exhibitor there, which was quite fun. And I think they were all really excited to be there.

53:53And I thought that a lot of the conversations that I had were around, what else can we do to bring more people to High Point? What are interesting activations? I thought Design Social was great for that purpose. You mentioned 313. I thought 313 looked even better, had a whole host. I think there were 15 new exhibitors in that space. They threw a spectacular dinner party there Saturday night that was just this moss-covered banquet table with candles everywhere, and it was in celebration of Alfredo Paredes and Cravit and their collaboration, but the team from Schwung and 313 just really put on an incredible show.

54:37And I felt like people were really talking about, yes, How can we build on 313? How can we build on some of this new energy? What else can we do to bring people here? Caitlin, I don't know if you felt that the KBiz, NKBA pop-up did a lot along those lines, but I think people were encouraged to at least see that back again. And I think everybody was talking about what else can we do to get more people here. Totally. It was fun. And the NKBA space added a really lovely outdoor tent kind of to its setup, which was a great venue. I hosted a panel there about lighting on Saturday morning. And I met several young kitchen designers who were in High Point trying to soak up best practices, discover new brands, and also sort of see what the whole High Point scene was about.

55:29And it was so great. I was glad that I had that experience sort of towards the start of market because then I then saw them all over market at furniture showrooms and really in the mix. And I think that is what that NKB activation is supposed to be, right? Bringing people to get, you know, a taste of the kitchen and bath space, but also really immerse themselves in the furniture industry at large. And it was just it was a fun sort of proof point for me that that model is is really poised to be successful. You know, in Next Market, I think they're doing a full refresh of that space. So there'll be a lot for us to go back and look at then.

56:04I wonder, are there any 17th century Italian palazzos in High Point they could turn into a furniture showroom? There need to be. That does seem to work, I've noticed. I think we're almost at the end here. But I'm curious, you know, what do you guys think will stay with you? We've experienced joy. We've been unbroken. How are we going to remember Spring High Point Market? Caitlin? Well, I think I'm going to bring it right back to joy. You know, one, there's this feeling of walking into so many of these showrooms and kind of having this moment of going, oh, that's beautiful. I think there are some vignettes, some merchandising choices from this market that I will remember for a long, long time, which I'm really grateful for, actually.

56:43I think it was a really inspiring way to spend the week. I also, you know, was chatting with one marketing executive at a brand who said, you know, I've never laughed more at market than this spring. that perfectly captures the mood on the street. I haven't had more fun at market in years. I think it was just, it was a great kind of celebration of the best of the industry. Dennis, bring us home. Yeah, I mean, I think that there was, again, with the energy and I think everybody wanting to get together for parties again, I think people were feeling very much in the event mood. You know, I come back to 313 in part because I know that they're contemplating opening a real sit-down restaurant there.

57:28And I think there's talk about perhaps a boutique hotel being added into the mix. I think there's always conversation in this market more than ever around, hey, what else can we do to attract people to come and stay? And I think people are thinking much more about hospitality. And who knows? Maybe our friends at RH are showing them some ideas of what it could mean to have a restaurant or to have some other ways of really entertaining people. The wine bar downstairs at 313 was always busy. And I think there's just a lot more room for people to entertain and to think about hospitality. So I'd be surprised if we don't see more of that.

58:10And listen, maybe it's a tie-in with the NKBA, lots of kitchens. Maybe there's a whole host of things you can do there, I hope. Only one wine bar? I feel like they need at least four, as it RH typically puts in there. All right. Well, that's a wrap on our conversation. Caitlin, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Dennis, I will talk to you in five minutes. Fred, thanks so much.

58:38And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye? Mohair caught my eye. As you may or may not have known, Dennis, there's been a big campaign from PETA to eliminate mohair as used in any kind of fabric production, whether it's for furniture or fashion. And they've been successful. Macy's, Bloomingdale's, and the TGX brand, which includes HomeGoods, have agreed to eliminate mohair from their selections. And this is interesting because apparently the goats who are used to produce mohair are mistreated, at least according to PETA's reporting.

59:14And, you know, I don't know that I have a take on it beyond I want goats to be treated well. But I really do wonder if this will sort of bleed into the higher end, because I'm not sure if any of the high, you know, the sort of more high end retailers that we talk about are looking at, you know, a limited mohair. I don't know if showrooms are thinking about getting rid of mohair. I wonder if this will expand. I'm definitely curious to see where the story goes. I'm curious to see as well. And I think we all want goats to be treated better, So I hope that this has some legs to it, no pun intended, but I think that this has gotten a lot of attention and it should.

59:46So I'd be surprised if we don't hear more announcements soon. What cut you out of this week? Well, Fred, and try not to get emotional when I talk about this, but just before we came on air was Jerome Powell's final press conference as chairman of the Federal Reserve. That's right. And he said that, listen, he's actually going to be staying on perhaps for a while, though not as Fed chairman. And rates were left unchanged, which was a surprise to absolutely no one in the world. But what was a surprise was that internally there were actually a group of dissenters. There were four, in fact, one who wants to, of course, lower rates.

1:00:27That would be the recent appointee from President Trump and several others on the board who want the language to be changed so that it doesn't suggest that the Fed is leaning towards lowering rates in the future. And that is a big change because many are starting to think, hey, are rates going to be coming down or might they even need to go up? Because you know what's not dead yet, Fred? Inflation. That's right. So anyway, it's interesting. It's rare to see that kind of a division. I can't remember when there were four dissenting votes in a committee meeting where they ended up not doing anything.

1:01:03So we'll have to keep an eye on that. But there are some changing winds, to be sure. And the new Fed chairman who comes in soon is clearly going to have his work cut out for him. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaos and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.