The Thursday Show: Will the Supreme Court undo Trump's tariffs? Plus: The evolution of Maiden Home

24:44I don't know. That stock is moving up very rapidly. so uh anybody who's on the wrong side of this trade is not uh is not feeling good because there's uh there's no limit to how far up it can it can go but these numbers come at a time where i i still don't get the sense that there's there's huge demand for the for the product it's not like oh happy days are here again it's much more we continue to cut where margins are improving and here's where we are. What's your sense? I mean, I think my basic take on it is essentially that they've cut it to the bone and once the housing market does turn around, which strongly pushes First Dibs business, that they'll be well positioned to take advantage of that.

25:30I'm sure, I think David probably said that more or less exactly on the call. A couple of interesting things from the call. You know, I haven't been following First Dibs as closely as I should have over the past year, but I think they got, they used to have, they had auctions on the platform for the first time a few years back. I think they've gotten rid of auctions. They also have this really interesting AI tool that's kind of causing a little bit of controversy among sellers. It's basically what it is, is, you know, people list something on First Dibs and they list their price. And then First Dibs provides like a First Dibs estimate that uses, you know, AI to come up with a price range.

26:02Here's what we think this is worth. And of course, sellers hate this because they want to get the best price they possibly can. And there's been a little bit of chatter around that on social media. And so it's just interesting, you know, But at a time when they're doing financially well, there's always the question of like, do the sellers really like being on here? You know, will they be able to keep everyone, you know, happy and profitable and making money? That's always been kind of a first-dip story. And I don't want to say long may it continue, but it seems like that's just sort of baked into what the company is all about.

26:32Well, I mean, as you say, this new AI tool seems to be one of the things that is upsetting people recently. And I think you and I were talking before the show started about Fernway announcing they were coming off of the platform because of some some challenges around this. Well, yeah, it really makes it makes more sense for an antique when the customer comes. They don't know what the reasonable price is for this, you know, Eames lounger from the 80s is or whatever that that makes sense to me. But when it's a vendor selling a new product like here is my retail price for my chair for first steps to say, here's what we think it's worth.

27:09It's upsetting to these people, understandably. Honestly, ever since First Dibs first made the transition and became e-commerce and all of that, there has just always been a struggle there. And so it continues. But we should move on and talk about some of the other companies who recently reported, such as Our House. Our House, yeah, they had a reasonably good quarter. Basically, kind of a similar story, actually, just without the drama. First, their net revenue went up 8%. Their margin increased 8%. You know, they're making money. And they were quick to point out on the call that they're debt free.

27:46I wonder if they were calling out anyone in particular when they made that point clear to investors. But I think the kind of really interesting thing about our house, and you mentioned this right before we started recording, is that it's just surprising. Housing is still down. Tariffs are very disruptive. But our house had a pretty good quarter. What did you make of it? Had a pretty good quarter, and yet it cannot find a friend on Wall Street. I mean, I just feel like that stock is trading below$10 a share, and the reaction was so ho-hum from the street. I don't know if it's mortgage rates, housing market.

28:20I don't know what the gray rain cloud is that's over it. But there's just not a lot of enthusiasm, despite a very enthusiastic CEO who said these numbers were great. Our new product rollout is great. Our new store openings are fantastic. So, I mean, he was as enthusiastic as he could be. But nothing is making people believe there is a sustainable growth of any dramatic nature coming out of this anytime soon. And that seems to be the biggest issue, holding that stock and the perception of that company back a bit, I think. Do you think investors are right, though? Because shouldn't we be encouraged by the fact that like, you know, this is a, you know, a company that sells to a lot of designers and people are very aware of it and they seem to be doing well.

29:08That would suggest to me that, you know, maybe all the doom and gloom that we talk about is is missing the mark. And actually, you know, things are pretty OK. Like whether Wall Street likes the stock or not, shouldn't we be encouraged by, you know, a reasonably good performance from this company? Or is is that sort of a naive rose tinted glasses view of what this call? You know, it could just be that we're in a time where Wall Street is looking for greater growth opportunities elsewhere. You look at where RH is trading. You look at where our house is trading. There is no enthusiasm around these furniture stocks.

29:40Yeah. So maybe everyone's putting it into Nvidia. Exactly. It's all about AI. And that is, and there's, again, there's just nothing for people to really get excited about. I think there will be when the street really senses a meaningful housing turnaround is coming, and I think the street will spot it early as it usually does. But that is not the indication that these stocks are giving, and these stocks are often pretty good barometers of where things are headed. Well, we'll hope you're wrong on that front. Let's maybe move on to Ethan Allen, who sort of fared the worst of the three companies we're talking about.

30:16You know, ironically enough, their numbers weren't totally terrible. They had some decline in wholesale net sales. They sell a lot to the US government and the shutdown was affecting that. So that went down a little bit. Their traffic was down, like their in-store traffic was down considerably. This wasn't a dramatic decline in terms of their numbers. It was a weak quarter, certainly. But you were talking about what Wall Street thinks. Wall Street hated this. They sent Ethan Allen tumbling down 20%, despite the fact that they're paying a dividends of giving money to shareholders, as they often do.

30:47you know, I don't want to read too much into one earnings call and, you know, how stock market analysts reacted. But, you know, this makes it seem like Ethan Allen is a company that's in trouble, which is sort of surprising because, you know, aren't they supposed to be the, you know, the American manufacturer? And, you know, what's going on here, Dennis? What do you think? Well, I think to pick up on the point you were just making, I don't think it's despite the fact that they're paying a dividend. I think the street is, and while first dibs is hitting a 52-week high as we speak. Ethan Allen is hitting a 52-week low as we speak.

31:17I think the street is responding to the fact that this is a company paying a very high dividend and is not showing any signs of meaningful growth. You go back in time and look at Ethan Allen. It was a stock that was once a company that was once valued at close to$2 billion. That market cap is roughly around 580 coming into the show as we were recording. So this company has lost so much market share. You and I were having a discussion a while back about viewing itself almost as a utility company. The problem with that model is that a utility company, like a Consolidated Edison or a Pacific Gas and Electric, they have a guaranteed market.

32:02They have a guaranteed customer base, and so they can afford to pay out that dividend to those shareholders for a long period of time. Ethan Allen continues to lose market share and continues to not demonstrate to the market that it's making innovative product. It seems so far behind where R-House and R-H and others in the space are. And I think the concern that this company is just continuing to pay out all of this money that they should be putting into product innovation and into technology, and instead they're just putting it into dividends. And I think the Wall Street is sending is really ringing alarm bells and calling, I think, for a pretty dramatic shift in that in that company's leadership.

32:48Yeah, well, we'll see. You know, the CEO for Rukh Khathwar is, you know, very beloved in the industry. He's been there a very long time, you know, but it's possible that, you know, he'll find cause to step aside and let someone new come in over the next couple of years. And we'll have to see how the market reacts to that. But I do think they probably need some cool new product and some cool new ideas. I know they do invest in technology, but maybe it's not the right kind of technology. But yeah, clearly Wall Street does not like what's happening to Ethan Allen. So we'll have to follow that one.

33:18No, absolutely. And I don't mean to be all down in the dumps about all these companies. But the street is speaking pretty loudly about this sector at the moment. And it's not what we would like. So we're going to move on to have a much more fun conversation, Fred, about house names. For The New York Times this week, Jennifer Bradley Franklin explored a growing trend in which homeowners are giving their spaces unique names, sometimes paired with logos and personalized decor. And I, for one, Fred, am all for it. So have you ever lived in a house with a name, Dennis? You must have. Well, so funny enough.

33:56So the apartment that I grew up in, 114 E71st Street, is really named Lennox Court. And I much preferred Lennox Court as a child. I thought, yes, of course, I live at Lennox Court. Where do you live? And I loved that my apartment had a name like that. So yes, I'm all for it. Yeah, no, I can't say that I've ever lived in such a such a growing up in California. The houses don't really have names like that. And, you know, I've I've lived in some questionable New York apartments that maybe had a maybe had a name written down somewhere, but not one that I was aware of. This is sort of sort of a funny phenomenon, right?

34:31Because I think the article in the Times sort of points out that there's sort of like a kind of a there's almost a lightly humorous element to this, because, of course, the, you know, the houses that really have names are the sort of European chateaus. that have been there for hundreds of years. So is it really appropriate to call something in a Dallas suburb like the Hendrix Court or whatever it is? It's a little silly, and I think people kind of have fun with it. But it's funny because we were talking about this before, but this is something that designers really do a lot. They give their projects a name on their website.

35:04They give it kind of a brand identity. So the idea of giving a house a name for designers is nothing new. No. And I think that we've talked about Ken Falk in the past who creates a whole movie and often creates uniforms for the people that work in the house. And there's all sorts of additional elements and there's personal stationery that's made up with the crest and the picture of the home and the name. I mean, I think you can really lean into this. And I had put something up on social media earlier asking people about this. And everyone who's writing in saying, yes, of course, they should have names.

35:41Absolutely lean into that. And of course, all my English friends are saying, well, that's how we do it in the UK anyway. It's so much better. But I was doing a panel recently with David McCacken from Workshop APD at High Point. And of course, he's all about branding. And so when they do projects, they love to create brand identity and create a whole story behind it. And I think it just adds so much richness and depth to the property and to the experience. Weren't you saying before we started that Ken Falk comes up with these names and there was only one client who kind of rejected the name and didn't like it or so it didn't quite stick?

36:22Is that right? Yes. Well, he was very funny about it. He sort of said only one time did a client, and I don't know if the client didn't like the movie and where it was all going. Right. He always didn't. Yeah. Every project is a movie for Ken Falk. But I think it's so fun. I think it's really fun. And I mean, I think it's, you know, it's sort of a marketing thing. It's a way to wrap a brand around something. You know, what's more fun saying, putting on your website, like, hey, here's my project of one, two, six Sparrow Lane versus here's Casa Rosada or, you know, here's this house. You know, it's a fun thing.

36:55Maybe unsurprisingly, because I'm someone who writes like 10 ,000 words every week. I'm a huge fan of names and words. I think they really can shape products and projects, you know, really well-named products. The name becomes wrapped up in their identity. I don't know. I'm just, I'm obsessed with names. I think this is a really fun conversation. So I love that houses have names, too. I agree. I mean, and bringing it back to our Monday guests and Pharaoh and Ball. And I mean, I think part of the reason that company was as successful as it was, was all of the great names. And so I think there's so much good stuff that comes with naming products.

37:30You know, our our phone number growing up was Trafalgar 95849. And it just made even that sound more glamorous and elegant. Of course, you've reached Trafalgar 9. I'm sorry that the Scullies aren't home right now in Lennox Court. But yeah, I mean, all of that just made it made it more grand. I loved in this story, the people getting little monogrammed towels with it. I mean, you can take it as far as you want to. But I think it's a lot of fun. And I'm sure the real estate people love it probably helps your house to increase in value. Yeah, that's right. It has some great. Exactly. I love how we're giving advice on this and our show is called The Thursday Show because it's on Thursday.

38:10We need a naming committee. Wait a sec. We need a naming committee. Let's call the Pharaoh and Ball people. All right. That's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including a roundup of new product and the latest in the Mitchell Gold and Bob Williams legal saga. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

38:34This season at Eichholz celebrates storytelling through the lens of design. Their award-winning collaboration with the Metropolitan Museum of Art will soon be followed by the brand's first-ever designer collaborations. In 2026, expect the unexpected with Corey Damon Jenkins' lighting line, and later this year, enter the glamalistic world of Vanessa de Leon with her case goods collection. Follow them on Instagram at worldofEichholz to stay connected. That's atworldofeicholtz on Instagram Windows and doors might not be the flashiest part of a design project But they can completely change the look and feel of a space And when you're working with a trusted name like Renewal by Anderson You know it's done right Their interior designer loyalty program connects you with a dedicated expert Who manages every detail So you can focus on your creative vision while earning exclusive rewards and trade discounts.

39:35It's smart, simple, and saves you time on every project. Plus, could be an additional revenue stream for your business. Apply today at renewalbyandersondesigner.com. Terms and conditions apply. And now, back to the show.

39:56And we're back. I'm joined now by the founder of Maiden Home, Nidhi Kapoor. Nidhi, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for having me back. Well, exactly. Having you back, Nidhi, because wait for it. Nidhi Kapoor was the seventh guest to appear on The Business of Home way back when, and we've had over 500 shows. So this is quite a while back. And I am so excited not only to have you back, Nidhi, but to talk about how you survived and thrived from 2018 when we first had you on, a feat that many in your space did not accomplish, as you know. It's been a challenging few years. Many of the companies that we spoke to when we first launched the show are no longer here.

40:45But you are, and we're going to talk about that. But first, let's remind people, let's go back to 2018. You were a year into Maiden Home, and you were telling us about this business that you created. So what was Maiden Home? And then we'll talk about all that it's evolved into today. Well, thank you so much again for having me. It's amazing to see how you built this platform over the years. And I'm so honored to be back and tell the story. It's been an amazing ride. You know, Maiden Home as it is today is truly not that different than the original vision. We've been able to stay really true to it.

41:22And really, we're a New York City-based design house focused on creating original objects of design. We have, in our eight-year history, been very focused on custom handcrafted furniture and on a mission to bring the products to market that I wished existed when I was starting the company, designing my own home in the shoes of my clients. And the journey has taken us well beyond our roots of custom upholstery, which is where we started and where we were when we first chatted to really every corner of the home with aspirations well beyond even where we serve today. Exactly. And when I say the company has evolved a great deal, I mean, from when you and I first spoke, you were going to North Carolina, you were meeting with the furniture makers, and you had narrowed down to, if I recall, there were three manufacturers that you were going to partner with originally to create some custom upholstery available online.

42:22and you had developed your own cushions and you had brought in all these materials as a way to bring down the cost. And so you had a very reasonably costing custom sofa that was available online. And this seemed very innovative, was very innovative in many ways at the time, but it was a relatively small offering because you were really wanting to see how it played out and what people, what resonated with people and what they gravitated towards. So it was a very disciplined offering in the beginning. And it seemed as if that model worked for you. I'm curious sort of how it went those first few years and what you learned along the way, because now you have physical spaces, which we'll talk about, and you have a much wider product offering.

43:11That's right. And I think that discipline of design and development that I took when it was just me in those early days designing, as you said, a really focused assortment to the assortment that we offer today, it really hasn't changed. And so the way I would describe it, I grew up in Silicon Valley and I went to Stanford and I worked at Google and I have reverence for the craft of technology innovation, but I never made anything with my hands before. I didn't know anyone that made anything with their hands before. And being in those workrooms and understanding that even to this day, there is so little in the making of a custom sofa at the high end, of course, that is done by machine.

44:01And truly quality of the product, the story, the heritage of that product is in the hand of the maker, the person that made it, their craft, how they were trained, how they're feeling that day. I mean, it is, each piece is one of a kind because of the human touch. And that was this fascination with craft, which led me to North Carolina, the very best artisanship for that product that I was offering at that time. I stayed true to that. It is the thing that has really defined who we are. It's in our DNA. We can't do anything else. We've considered multiple other ways. There are much faster ways and easier ways to bring product to market, turns out, and I know all of them, but we just reject that approach because the market is already so saturated with so much product that looks like all the other products made in the same factories.

44:51And so really, you know, we scaled that original approach that you and I talked about in the early days. Well, exactly. And that's part of what I want to honestly learn from you is, hey, how'd you do that? Because what we saw from the many people that we had on the show in the early days that were trying to be disruptors or trying to do something different, much of it online. Sometimes it was the scaling that brought them down. Sometimes they had gotten a bunch of venture capital money and tried to grow too quickly. What were you able to do? How did you succeed in growing and obviously experiencing the huge boom during COVID that everybody did?

45:33And then that bubble burst a little bit and everyone had a challenging time navigating that slow down or less volume. And I really want to hear, like, how'd you do it, Nidhi? I don't mean to oversimplify it, but truly it's just dogged focus. From a business model standpoint, you know, I think that the opportunity is quite clear. And I felt it in a very organic way. You don't have to do any research when you're in the market yourself and you feel you're searching for products that you wish existed. You are uninspired by what the market has to offer and you want to create. You feel this urge and this drive to create.

46:15I followed that drive. I felt that if I am feeling those pain points as a client, there's got to be thousands of clients like me out there. And at the beginning, you don't know exactly how big the opportunity is. but just followed my instincts, truly, from the very beginning in terms of the creative, the look, the feel, the aesthetic of the product, the quality, every detail of it, the service that I would like, how I want to explain the story to clients. I think the trade has been a huge driver of the business actually since the early days. I think direct-to-consumer for us is less about retail client versus trade.

46:54Trade was always, they were the early adopters of the maiden home. And because we were focused on that from the beginning, whether it be our lead times, our quality making and meeting promises, that has been a huge driver of our growth over the years in all kinds of market fluctuations, which frankly, we don't spend that much time thinking about. We really focus on our clients. But those deep, loyal relationships that we've had with the trade, who, you know, it is a cult following, truly, in terms of this group of designers that closely follow Maiden Home, look to our perspective on design and what we're bringing to market, how we're thinking about design and truly value our unique point of view.

47:37Because we don't try to be all things to all people. but you know what what really garners their loyalty and what is important i know it is to them and how they run their business is the service that we offer and i i really credit you know our not just resilience but as you said ability to not just survive but thrive we truly are thriving through all kinds of ups and downs in the broader market there's a lot of challenging decisions that you know you might have to make uh when you're under market pressure right i mean We've seen it taking costs, taking quality out of the product, designing, quote unquote, more commercial product, promotions, discounts, things like that.

48:15I mean, I understand why those decisions get made elsewhere. And I do empathize with that kind of pressure. But as we all know, over the long term, in terms of earning the trust and building that reputation with your clients, those things can be very destructive. So winning over the skeptical North Carolina manufacturers took some took some time, no doubt. But you have clearly won them over. I repeatedly hear from CEOs in North Carolina, you're one that they are watching. You're one that they say, oh, yeah, she she figured it out. And I'm wondering, was that one of the most difficult parts and how long did that take?

48:56Or what has been, besides staying laser focused, as you've articulated, what were some of the challenges through the ups and downs along the way? And tell me about winning over North Carolina Furniture Makers, Nidhi, because that's that easy to do. I mean, they're quite open-minded to the concept, to be honest. I think the most challenging part of what we're doing right now, what we have been doing, is really scaling and providing wide access to this artisanal level of craft and this high level of design. And finding the artists and partners who now span the globe, really, that's taken us to Europe.

49:39We do a lot of business in Europe today, for example. and the same story as what we kind of cracked in North Carolina, which was the best place to make our original product line, custom upholstery, our stone pieces. That's Italy. It's got to be Italy. There's nowhere else in the world and we've seen it all. And so I think the challenge for us has been replicating those relationships in North Carolina, many of whom have not really commercialized what they do at even the scale that Baden Home is operating at with our lead time, our on-time rate expectations, our quality expectations. We are the most, and everyone in North Carolina will tell you, we are the most picky.

50:20We cannot be more picky. I have heard that. But there's no other way. I can't put my name behind a product that doesn't meet those standards. And that is our biggest challenge. So replicating that, cracking that nut in North Carolina and doing it again and again, where our design vision takes us, accessing new pools of craft and talent. And that's really hard to do because I have spent a lot of time in Asia. Vietnam spent a week and a half there last year. And I see how that product is made. I understand how everyone makes product and where they make it and the trade-offs that they make to bring product to market at the prices that they do.

51:02Have no interest in that. We'll not be doing any business there. And so really, we have to look elsewhere. We have to look and push through walls and go places where no one else is interested in going because it's really not that easy and it's not that cheap. And so it's working with these artisans and helping them understand the value that Made in Home can bring. But that is what I did day one of Made in Home in North Carolina, but now we're doing it again. So that's so interesting. So you went to Vietnam where lots of people in the furniture industry are getting their product, right? You saw, I'm sure you saw plenty of RH sofas and plenty of whatever, right?

51:40What didn't seem right for you? So what did you see that said, oh, this isn't going to be a Made in Home partner? It's just mass production and the quality reflects that. you know, I mean, it's in the details. It's the standard of finish, right? Is your finish two steps or is it 12 steps? Is it a solid wood top or is it this veneer honeycomb thing in the middle? Because it has to come all the way from Asia and that would be way too heavy to ship. We can't have that. I have to be on board with every one of those very long list of attributes, which is why we really don't do very much product. You know, we design way more than we launch.

52:22in any given year because so many things have to go right. It has to be a have to have. You know, if we're going to take the harder route, I need to have a real reason why to explain to my team. And that's why I went to Vietnam to understand. And we do our homework and then, you know, we make the choices that are right for us. Right. Okay. So you knew that wasn't the partner for you. And part of what I'm curious about, it seems as if to your point, you've been designing all this product for so long. You seem to have so many ideas of where you wanted to go and where you wanted to take things, but you were also very methodical and took your time.

53:00But now you've got a lot of new product. And I wonder when you felt the time was right for that, what's been leading you to want to bring out all of this new product. Even the evolution of very much the made-in-home look seems much more, you tell me the words that you want to use to describe it, modern, contemporary, whatever it is. And I wonder how scary it is to step away from the safety and security of you figured out the North Carolina upholstery model and that seemed to be working well. How frightening is it for you to bring in all of this new product? And to your point, try and bring some scale to these craftsmen and these much smaller operations that aren't mass producing product, but you have to work hand in glove with them to make them able to bring the product over to you in a way that meets your long checklist of quality and craftsmanship.

54:03So tell me about that. I love a challenge. I love going and you feel it when you're there, a place where everyone else has long turned back. You feel it when you're there. No one else is this crazy. I can see the tracks in the snow. They turned back here as they were climbing the mountain. You look around, no one is trying to do that. And those are the most exciting moments for me in building the business. And I tell my team, feel it. This is it right here. Like climbing this mountain, making this product happen with an artisan that we found who's like truly the only person in the country who can pour cast glass at this kind of scale, but we have to have it.

54:46This is the good stuff. And this is where we're creating product that adds to the conversation, that has a reason to exist, that has a real legacy that people will look back at in 20 or 30 years and continue to respect. And so as you know, we opened our flagship in New York City about two years ago. So expanding that footprint made a ton of sense. Miami has been a exploding market for us. And so it was a natural next step for us. We just opened in the design district last week. So thank you for bearing with me. I've been a little occupied. You've had a lot going on. And yet another chapter of connecting more deeply with our clients.

55:32You mentioned the meatpacking shop that you opened. Opening that space was a big step, this Miami, the next big step. And from a marketing perspective, because everyone is trying to figure out what is working today, what is driving traffic, what is driving people. So often people will say, incredibly helpful to have a physical location. It's a huge marketing tool in addition to all of the other things that can happen there. Tell me how you think about that and tell me what marketing tools have been most effective for you these days because this whole AI search has kind of changed the dynamic for people.

56:16We have a rather small and rather underdeveloped marketing strategy, I will say, because we let the product do the marketing, truthfully. The trade interior designers that have started to really follow us, that some of the most influential designers in the industry that have come to understand what is unique about Maidenhome, they spread the word in a very organic way. I mean, designers are the original influencer in the category and not just with each other, with retail consumers. And any end client, when they start the process of decorating their home, they ask their interior designer, who's a friend, who do you trust?

56:57Who do you do business with? And interior designers do spread the word. And the way we engage interior designers and give them first access is through product. We launch a new product. We showcase it in our flagship stores. We host brand experiences for designers to get first look at that product. That is really how things spread. You know, of course, being in locations that are easily accessible for designers as part of their day, design district, meatpacking, those things are very important from a visibility standpoint. It's kind of the old school approach to, because I think that's what, that's what's right.

57:33Again, I go back to what stage that we can really shine on. It is not the click on the Instagram or the Google search ad. You just miss the entire story. We're just no interested in competing there. I'm interested in quote unquote marketing or really brand awareness strategies that allow us to tell our story because our story is what is really special. In thinking about this climb up the luxury mountain, for lack of a better analogy, in the short term, the industry has gotten a lot more expensive in recent years. And I'm always worried that we start to look too expensive for people and it turns them away or everyone is, to your point, trying to find ways to value engineer something or try and bring a product to market.

58:22that's definitely not what you're trying to do. But how have you thought about the product mix definitely getting much more expensive than what the original concept was, which was relatively inexpensive sofas being brought to people out of North Carolina in a short period of time? How have you thought about sort of the price escalation component in all of this? We're really thoughtful and intentional about our pricing. Fair and honest pricing is, that's really our North Star, you know, which it's not that simple. You know, there's way more art than science that goes into that, you know, and it's a lot of, frankly, my judgment, like what's a fair price for that.

59:01And if we can't offer it at a price that I feel is, it's not about being competitive. It's just about being honest and fair. You know, of course there's been inflation, you know, we primarily 95 % of our products are still made here in the U S and some of the new forays, into material have taken us to Europe, as I mentioned. But even here in the US, there's been quite a bit of inflation. Labor, as I mentioned, is a handcrafted product. So the biggest cost in our product is the time for people to make it. And we make them in workrooms with really high quality standards, really high labor standards.

59:41Those things are very important to us, focusing on sustainability. But we think our client values that just as much as we do. Right. So we make good decisions every step of the way in design. And then we price fairly, you know, where we think is good value. And I would never make a choice to leave a quality story or a quality standard on the table to chase a better price point. Our clients wouldn't want us to. That's not the type of client that we have. And so whatever is happening in kind of the macro climate, it shouldn't drive our short-term decisions. These are really timeless pieces that I hope to have in the catalog for years to come.

1:00:23And so, you know, we make decisions really for the long-term and really in pursuit of quality. And when you, in sort of wrapping all of this up, if there's anybody listening to this who says, okay, I want to go out and start a business, I want to create a product, or I want to come to market with something, what have you What have you learned through this whole process? What can you share with others who are thinking about trying to take on a challenge like this? It's just what I highlighted where the feeling you have when you're out on the edge of where you can see solid land and you're in places where you know no one else has gone and you're up against challenges that feel truly impossible.

1:01:12that is the time to double down and push through. That is how you can really trailblaze. You can create something really special. And my advice is to like, fine, seek out those moments and push through them. And that is what the world needs. That's certainly what this category needs. And that's what I've learned. And that's been a virtuous cycle for me. It was scary at the beginning when there were too many unknowns to really hold onto anything, but it's been something that's just become part of our process now. So I remember those early days of being up against what felt like insurmountable challenges.

1:01:50Now those seem small relative to the things that we're doing, right? But whenever you get that feeling, it's a little scary, pushing through in that moment, doubling down on the things that you really believe in and just having conviction, believing in yourself. That's what matters. Finally, I'm wondering, you referenced earlier, For those who didn't know, went to Stanford, worked for Google early on in your career. I assume artificial intelligence is showing up in conversations and in your business in some way. Tell me, first of all, tell me what you even make of this incredibly explosive growth of artificial intelligence.

1:02:28And are you fascinated by it? Are you curious about it? And then are there real business applications that you think are meaningful that you might or might not be employing yourself? It's so exciting. I love innovation. You know, change is progress. It's the only way we can move forward. And our job is to understand it and harness it and evolve with it, right, no matter what we're doing. We're not a technology company, but one of the best ways we have used AI is to, we don't bother our customers with a lot of focus groups and things like that, right? But something that we do do is when we want to understand where there are opportunities to, say, expand a line of products, where we're seeing a lot of excitement around a product and there's opportunities to offer more finishes, more sizes, really get behind that band and serve that demand.

1:03:23That's an example of where we have thousands of conversations every week with the clients over a number of different channels. And you can use artificial intelligence to really synthesize down the nature of those conversations, understand the incidence of different types of trends that are happening in your real conversations with clients. That's a great example of how we're using it every day to make faster decisions, more convicted decisions, and understand kind of the pulse of what our clients want and how we can serve them better. But I think it's all of our job to embrace it and make it part of our lives and have it help us, like any technology, be more efficient, be smarter, make faster decisions, and then free up more time to focus on the things that only humans can do today, which is those human connections with the partners that we forge.

1:04:16That is something that is a human trusting another human to make a product and scale a product together. So we use technology to allow our team to make the highest and best use of their time. Makes sense. Well, I am thrilled to have you back. Guest number seven, I'm thrilled to have you back on the show after all these years, Nidhi, and congratulations on all you've achieved. And it sounds like there's a lot more to come. So we will have you back when there's more to talk about. But I'm thrilled to get to catch up with you, and I thank you for your time. Thank you so much. I'm really happy to be back and catch up.

1:04:58And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred? Well, when you're gone for two weeks, a lot catches your eyes. I got a backlog of caught my eyes here. I'm going to try and keep it as short as possible. earlier we were just talking about ICFF and BDNY and all that good stuff and I just saw that Julia Haley Montanez, who you may remember her, she started the made section of the AD Home Show back in the day. She has a great Instagram account, Interior Decline.

1:05:28Highly recommended follow. She is taking over in some capacity to work on Wanted, sort of the kind of cool indie section of ICFF. The history is too long there. I won't go into all of it. But that'll be exciting. She obviously made her name doing that kind of thing for AD the ad home show so i'm excited to see what she does for wanted and that will only fuel the fire of this feud that dennis you're trying to start here uh so that that was a cool little bit of news moving over to substack uh jill singer friend of the show uh the one of the founders of the newsletter sight unseen has a substack it's very cool it's called counter space and she's already got two issues up one of them is about when did modular furniture stop being fun which i kind of I kind of enjoyed and made me do a deep dive into some modular furniture.

1:06:14Jill's a great writer and definitely knows the design industry like the back of her hand. So I'm excited to follow her sub stack and see what she does with it. And then finally, just a little shout out, Sarah Fritch, a former guest of the show. And former leader of Schoolhouse has a cool company called Studio Tigress. And one of her products was picked up by, drumroll please, Oprah. Oprah likes Sarah's plate. So I really enjoyed seeing that, and it's kind of fun to see a podcast alumni doing great things. I'm sure that's how Sarah calls herself a podcast alumni. Sure, she has a t-shirt that says just that.

1:06:49Exactly. That's her main claim to fame. Yes. Aside from, you know, all that stuff with Schoolhouse. Anyway, sorry for the monologue there, but those three things definitely caught my eye. What caught your eye, Dennis? A couple of things I noticed. One is a friend of the show, Veer Grenny, is actually going to have a Create Academy course, which is sort of the UK masterclass series. And to kick it off, there's actually going to be a fun interview with the former editor of British House and Garden, Hada Bing, another friend of the show. She was on the back of the bus at the DLN conference. Yes, I saw she was at the DLN.

1:07:26That was some gossip I didn't want to share, but I'm glad the news is out there. Yes, so she's going to be doing sort of a fun interview with Veer as a way to kick off the Create Academy course. And I'm looking forward to that. That should be very fun. And finally, I hope that many people listening to the show will be coming along with me to the Ticking Tent on Saturday. former guests of the show once again ben reynard and christina juarez are putting on the ticking tent out in bedford new york this uh this saturday and uh come one come all i know i will be there the lovely mrs scully will be there as well and uh i hear big crowds are coming fred can we put you down for the ticking tent i gotta rest and work off all this jamon yes yes you have to recover from Madrid.

1:08:14Understood. But I hope I will see many friends of the show there on Saturday. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.