College Football Wars | Where the Pac-12 Went Wrong | 5

0:07I'm David Brown and this is Business Wars.

0:30Head to any local sports bar on a Saturday during college football season and you can bet you're in for a packed house. Pictures of beer and baskets of wings are passed around as fans stay glued to the TV, cheering or jeering as the opposing teams barrel across the gridiron. For more than 100 years, college football has built up a strong base of dedicated fans who continue to tune into these games week after week, whether that's in their living room or the closest dive. In 2024, the famous Rose Bowl game between Michigan and Alabama brought in just shy of 30 million viewers, according to ESPN, making that the top sports cast outside of the NFL since 2018.

1:11But the future of the sport is changing. After a major realignment, one of college football's most decorated conferences has become a shell of what it once was. The Pac-12 has become the Pac-2. Meanwhile, the lucrative media deals that have propped up so many of these conferences are also changing shape, and fans have just as much to watch off the field as they do on it. Giving us the play-by-play on the state of college football is John Canzano, host of the daily sports talk radio show The Bald-Faced Truth, and half of Canzano and Wilner, a podcast focused on all things college football. Later on, we'll be hearing from Chris Vanini.

1:51He is a reporter covering college football for The Athletic. and he'll shine a light on how media deals shape the sport and what its on-air future may look like. All that's coming up.

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4:12John Kenzano, welcome to Business Wars. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it, man. I'm excited to be here. I know you've been a newspaper guy for a while before switching to radio with your show, The Bald-Faced Truth. What made you make the jump from writing about sports to talking about them? Well, you know, we saw sort of this convergence of media that was taking place. Like, you know, all the newspapers started to do videos and started to do audio. And in 2007, the Portland Trailblazers got the number one pick in the NBA draft. And I got a call from a local station that said, hey, we're switching formats because the Blazers are going to win every NBA title from here to 2024.

4:50And they're going to matter. And we want to put you on in a three-hour show. And so the show launched in 2007 in conjunction with my column. And I've kind of done these things hand in hand because, you know, this business changes. Believe me, I understand. Now, let's talk about that first guest on your show back in 2007. Well, you know, I don't think John McCain's got much of a basketball game. How'd you land that one? Well, you had President Obama and you had Hillary Clinton who were campaigning in the state of Oregon to win the Democratic nomination. And what I noticed was the political candidates didn't want to do the political shows.

5:31They didn't want to have a serious conversation about health care and foreign relations and all the stuff that probably matters way more than sports. But I did get the attention of several of the handlers for, you know, who would become President Obama. And I said, you know, if he's interested in doing an interview on a sports radio show, let's do it. And so I just wanted to know what's it like to throw out the first pitch at a White Sox game and what is it like to raise daughters? My younger daughter, Sasha, who's six, her best friend works in the front office at the White Sox. So she goes to games, but they seem to be much more interested in the caramel apples and the mascots than they are with the actual game itself.

6:15You know, I have three daughters and, you know, we traded notes on that. And all in all, like not the best interview I've ever done. Right. It's it was just a really different one and kind of a splashy way to come out of the gates. And I know today you cover a wide variety of sports, but you really become a kind of trusted voice for college football. What drew you to that beat? The college game has always felt different. You know, these were not professionals. This was not the NFL. I love the NFL. I love professional sports. But I always sort of gravitated towards the Olympics and college athletics because that limit that we all have, that struggle with our limitations that we all go through on a daily basis, very relatable.

6:56with college athletes. Some are going to make it, some aren't going to make it. And so for that reason, that college experience has just always felt a little more innocent and a little more connective to me. And so I gravitated to it. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about the fans. What separates a college football fan from an NFL fan? I do think that those college fans are more connected to the schools. It's generational. You'll see families that have been seasoned ticket holders in a lot of markets that have sat in the same place and tailgated in the same place for years. In the state of Oregon, you're born, you grow up in a household, you're either a duck fan or you're a beaver fan.

7:35And a lot of that may be contingent upon what your grandfather or your great grandmother, where did she go to school? And so I think it's ingrained in the culture of your own family. Dude, I remember when the Baltimore Colts moved away and it just broke the spirit of an entire city. That didn't really happen in college football. You know, they're going to be there. You can count on them. Yeah. And ultimately, your loyalty as a fan is always to the program, to the school. That's why when you buy season tickets these days, you're writing a check that part of that is going to the athletic department as a donation.

8:09Well, now our season of College Football War is focused heavily on, well, I'm sure you're familiar with the disbandment of Pac-12 and that conference. For those who are newer to college football, I'm wondering if there's any way to compare this with anything else that's happened in the world of sports. I mean, when you think of the Pac-12, is there anything that you draw a parallel to? I don't. And your comparison of the Colts leaving is the closest I can come or the Seattle Supersonics leaving Seattle. Because what has happened is the Pac-12 conference was founded 108 years ago in downtown Portland.

8:46And it had largely the same core group of schools that were part of it. There was a lot of history. Jackie Robinson played in this conference. Bill Walton played in this conference. There were athletes that have been successful. It has more national champions than any other conference in America. It's got more Olympians by far, more gold medals by far. The closest thing I can have is to compare this is the heartache that goes along with losing the Sonics or losing the Colts. You're based in Oregon. So I got to know, how's this been for you? I mean, Oregon State and Washington State really seem to get the short end of the stick on this one.

9:20Yeah, Oregon State and Washington State are left in a lurch. They were the only two schools that signed the grant of rights in that fateful August day that everybody was expecting that Oregon and Washington and everybody else would come to the table in a meaningful way. Oregon State and Washington State got left out and everybody ran for the hills. They're going to try to, you know, put this conference back together, play as a conference of two next year. I think it's the right strategy move, but it's not a fun play. There is certainly, I think, anxiety and anger within Oregon State and Washington State's community, especially because they are now on the outside of major college athletics looking in.

10:01What was the beginning of the end for the Pac-12? What was the first domino to fall, do you think? I think it goes back 12, 13 years. I think you start to look at the fact that you've got presidents and chancellors who are in charge of these universities. These are not business people. They hire a commissioner in Larry Scott who got a TV deal right away, but often spent more money than he should have. That's money that's not getting to your members. It's really hurting your ability, particularly in football and in men's basketball, to spend like the SEC in the Big Ten. So over a decade, yeah, you start to fall behind.

10:40And, you know, the presidents and chancellors finally wised up. They changed commissioners. They probably overcorrect. They hired George Klyovkov. And he's very collegial, but he's not a killer, right? He's not cutthroat. And again, we're in this world of consolidation and media companies and, you know, who's going to stab who in the back. I had one I had one Pac-12 athletic director tell me that at the end it was like 12 people sitting in a saloon smiling at each other, but they had their guns pointed at each other under the table. Right. So you need somebody who can navigate that world in a very shrewd way.

11:18And so I just look at the overall thing back to your question. It comes down to a failure of leadership that I think you put 50 percent of it on the president's chancellors and then you put the other 50 percent of this on this combination of commissioners that just didn't get it done and media companies that that wanted it all for themselves and ultimately got what they wanted and and got the brands they wanted. You know, I'm thinking back, though, to that time when UCLA and USC were talking about possibly leaving the Pac-12. They were getting courted and everything. What was the community response from schools and fans?

11:53I mean, were folks leaning more toward one outcome or the other? Do you recall? Well, I know that people, they kept it very quiet. And that was, I think, intentional. The UC Regents were not happy because they ultimately have now penalized UCLA saying, hey, you acted in a manner that hurt UC Berkeley. And so they'll pay what we're calling calimony to UC Berkeley. You know, and so I think that, you know, after the announcement was made and they did a nice job of kind of keeping it quiet after the announcement was made that USC and UCLA planned to leave, they were going to the Big Ten. There was a lot of outcry and there were fans who were saying this is a terrible idea.

12:31You're going to drag, you know, all the non-revenue athletes, the non-revenue sports across the country. This is all about football. You saw Chip Kelly, the coach at UCLA at the time, went public and said, you know, football should just separate. This doesn't make sense. You had Bill Walton, who was very outspoken. He took the position urging UCLA to change its mind. And I still think that there's some people who are looking at the loss of tradition, the loss of history, the impact that it's going to have. And by the way, the numbers for UCLA in particular don't pencil out all that great. After you include the$10 or$11 million a year, they're going to spend more in travel and nutrition.

13:13And you start to wonder, you know, is the juice worth the squeeze? Yeah. And for the sake of listeners who may be hearing our podcast a little bit later, we should note that we're talking in the last week of May, start of June. So what's the latest update on where the PAC-12 conference stands? What are you hearing? Well, the Pac-12 is now a two-member conference, and they have two years to get back to the NCAA minimum of eight teams. So they have a grace period of two years. Oregon State and Washington State have filed lawsuits against the 10 departing members. They were successful in gaining the settlement they wanted.

13:51They got a war chest that is about$255 million in assets and in payments. They have$65 million in cash payments from the 10 departing members. They have, you know, all the NCAA tournament revenue for the next six years belongs to those two schools. They are getting college football playoff payout money. They only have to split two ways instead of 12. So there's a significant war chest there. But the question remains, can they put this thing back together? Or should they slow play a little bit and watch the rest of college athletics to see if there's enough chaos in the ecosystem that creates an opportunity for them to join the Big 12 or join the ACC.

14:34Or if the ACC does implode, which it's teetering, does Oregon State and Washington State go out and try to get Stanford and Cal back? And do they add others? And so I've been told that Teresa Gold, the commissioner, and both presidents at Oregon State and Washington State are kind of echoing the same sentiment that they've got to plan and move toward a rebuild while simultaneously watching the landscape to see if there's an opportunity. So it'll be really interesting to see what they do. The brand PAC-12 still holds value. You know, I've talked with even the Mountain West Conference schools. And I say, you know, if you were ever to just do a straight merger with Oregon State and Washington State, would you be the Mountain West or would you be the Pac-12?

15:21And they say, we want to be the Pac-12 because they still view that as better than the Mountain West. So I think there's a lot of to be determined. When I was a kid, I used to watch TV shows like Three's Company and Taxi and Happy Days. Every once in a while, we'd get a to be continued episode and we'd all go, oh, but I think there's going to be a lot of drama here in the next six to 18 months. Yeah. This is really a cliffhanger or a tightrope or something. I mean, but John, what's your sense of it? I mean, having followed what's been going on in college football, do you think, how likely is it that the Pac-12 can scrape together enough teams to compete through a merger or something?

16:00And, you know, honestly, what happens if they don't pull it together? Yeah, if they don't pull it together, they're just going to have to accept relegation. Now, there's$255 million out there that is enough for them to live on several years. and I've been told that they have earmarked 65 million of that towards potentially rebuilding and so it just so happens that 65 million is about what four Mountain West conference teams would cost you if you're going to add them to your conference now but the question beyond that is you know can you put together a meteorites deal does Fox does ESPN does Apple does the CW do they want that and you know like it or not TV is driving the bus here the conference commissioners have ceded control of those conferences to TV executives.

16:46They're running it. The Pac-12, one of the most historic conferences in the league. You talked about its brand equity, now its future in limbo. Could you say a little bit more about what this program means to people? Why is it that it carries so much weight and what does this mean for fans to see it going where it is now? I really do hear a lot of disillusionment in that marketplace with people going, you know, I don't want college athletics to become the NFL light. And I think the Pac-12 is just part of the picture. It's part of the casualties, part of that story. I think there's just a real sense of loss.

17:23There's a disenchantment that is happening. I've heard a lot of fans say, I'm done with college athletics. I don't think they're really done. I think they're upset. I think they're waiting to see what happens, but I get it. This isn't what they signed on for. And it does now look, you know, look, athletes are sharing in the revenue. They have NIL deals. They're free to move around. They can transfer year to year. Everybody's an unrestricted free agent. There is that innocence that we talked about in the appeal of college athletics. It has been hollowed out some. We've been talking about where college football seems to be moving.

17:57As we head into a new season of college football, how much does this conversation eclipse what happens down on the field? I'm hearing from a lot of my peers. They're pointing to the college football playoff TV ratings and the March Madness ratings with Caitlin Clark. And they're saying college athletics is healthier than ever. I think it's a really narrow sample size, but I'm pumping the brakes a little bit. I think when football starts, you're going to see a large swath of fans happy to just be not talking about lawsuits, not talking about realignment. You know, it's not the diversion that we all sign on for when we when we root for college teams.

18:33You know, I think it's been kind of a drag the last two years. John, I can't believe I haven't asked you this yet, but who are you rooting for? Who's your team? You know, I grew up on the Pac-12 and part of it is, you know, I'm a little heartbroken. Like I grew up watching Stanford and Cal and now they're going to go play in the ACC. I can't wrap my head around that all the way. But you know what I'm rooting for? I don't really have a team. I always say people when I go to the stadium, I'm rooting for a good story, right? I'm rooting for a fast game and an early kickoff, those kinds of selfish things.

19:02But I'm really rooting for college athletics to find its way. And I think that could include football just splitting away and going, hey, we need to leave the rest of this stuff as it was. let's put the let's put the teams back in the pack 12 in every sport but football let's get the the basketball programs and the tennis programs and the golf teams not traipsing around the country playing games at rutgers when you you know you're based in the pacific time zone let's get everybody back to playing regional sports john canzano is the host of the bald face truth you can also read his column at john canzano.com john thanks so much for joining us on business wars it's been a real pleasure.

19:43Appreciate you. Thank you. We got to take a time out, but when we come back, Chris Vanini of The Athletic takes us into the wide, wide world of sports media deals and how that's affecting the future of college football. Stay with us.

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21:35Hey, welcome back to Business Wars. For decades, television networks and college football conferences have been deeply intertwined with dollars from the lucrative media deals providing a major revenue source for college athletic programs. To find out who's playing offense when it comes to these deals, we're talking with Chris Venini. He's a reporter at The Athletic who covers college football. Chris, welcome. Thanks for having me. Good to be here. Now, let me ask you on a personal level. I know you have a professional distance that you have to maintain working for the athletic, but are you a big-time college football fan?

22:11Absolutely. I mean, I wouldn't be covering the sport if I wasn't a fan of the sport. It's not the case for every writer, but it's the sport I was drawn to growing up. I love college football Saturdays. Whoever's playing, whatever the stadium is, I'm going to sit down and watch a game. Take us back to the start when college football and broadcasting became intertwined. The 1960s, perhaps? You're right. The 60s is when you start to get sports on television and you start to get a little bit of college football here and there. Not a lot. You might have a game or two, depending on where you are. And there's only a couple of networks at the time.

22:46But that's really where television starts to make its way into the sport. And in the 80s, there's a real big turning point. And I think a lot of people sort of locate this turning point around 1984 or so, a certain Supreme Court case I have in mind. Do you know what I'm referring to? Yeah. The NCAA versus the Board of Regents of the University of Oklahoma, University of Georgia is involved in there as well. And essentially to that point, the NCAA used to control college football television. Only a handful of games were on TV. the idea was that limiting television would keep in-person attendance high and that if more games were on TV, that would hurt attendance.

23:29We know now that that notion is ridiculous because you can just look at the packed stadiums every Saturday. But Oklahoma and Georgia, they sue over this saying it's an antitrust violation. And the Supreme Court agrees. It allows the schools and the conferences to make their own television deals and it reshaped everything we have today. So at this point, the colleges can negotiate their own TV contracts. The NCAA can't restrict them. And this sort of sets the stage for much of what we have today with the conferences and the realignments and such, right? Yeah, you had little bits of realignment that would go on in the early 90s into the 90s.

24:09The Southwest Conference collapses and kind of sort of merges with the Big 12. You have some independent programs in the early 2000s, Florida State and Miami. They used to be independent for decades when they were at the top of their height. Miami goes to the Big East. Florida goes to the ACC. You see kind of the end of independent programs. Penn State joins the Big Ten because that's where the television money was. It didn't make sense to be an independent program anymore. And then as you get into the 2000s, the later 2000s, you start to see teams changing conferences specifically because there's more television money in another conference.