In short
Carnival Cruise Line’s rise in the early 1970s–1980s, framed as a competitive “cruise ship wars” story against Norwegian Cruise Line and Royal Caribbean, including operational crises, marketing, shipbuilding bets, labor conflict, and eventual plans to go public.
Guest backgrounds
No podcast guests are interviewed in this episode. It’s a narrative episode with historical figures (Ted Arison, Knut Kloster, Bob Dickinson, Meshulam Rickles, Mickey Arison, Jack Seabrook, Richard Fane, Suzanne Boone) and includes unrelated promo voices (e.g., Leon Nafok, David Brown, Raza Jaffrey).
Key claims
Carnival survives a disastrous maiden voyage and fuel crisis via extreme cost-cutting and cash improvisation; “fun ship” branding plus The Love Boat drives demand; labor unrest in 1981 is crushed through a deceptive negotiation/force-and-deportation tactic; Carnival’s big ship bets (Tropical and more) and later TV ads fuel growth; Norwegian and Royal respond with larger ships and corporate restructuring.
Notable examples
Mardi Gras grounding from a harbor-pilot command mix-up; refueling in San Juan using cash collected from ship slot machines/cash registers; 1973 hiring of Bob Dickinson to boost sales; 1975 “fun ship” slogan and casino push; 1980 Norway (SS France) refurbishment; 1981 Carnival strike and decoy helicopter trap; 1982 Tropical arrival and ordering three more ships; 1986 decision to take Carnival public.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOCarnival's Rocky Start
0:16 to 5:05
Discover the challenges faced by Carnival Cruise Line's founder Ted Arison on the maiden voyage of the Mardi Gras.
“Carnival Cruise Line founder Ted Arison stands on the bridge of his ship the Mardi Gras.”
The Struggles of Carnival
5:29 to 11:09
Explore how Ted Arison navigates financial troubles and operational struggles to keep Carnival afloat in its early days.
“What happens when OnlyFans becomes more than just a side hustle?”
Marketing Overhaul
11:10 to 14:01
Learn about Bob Dickinson's marketing strategies aimed at revitalizing Carnival Cruise Line.
“He hires workers willing to work for the cheapest pay, often people from developing nations with few employment options.”
The Fun Ship Concept
14:01 to 19:18
Explore the idea behind Carnival's transformation into a fun-focused cruise line.
“He picks up a carnival brochure from the table and reads from it.”
Television's Impact on Cruises
19:19 to 23:26
Learn how 'The Love Boat' revolutionized the cruise industry and boosted popularity.
“Industry experts are starting to get nervous about just how many ships the market can support.”
Carnival's Big Gamble
24:16 to 28:00
Delve into Ted Arison's strategic risk to build a new cruise ship.
“Please welcome to the stage Carnival CEO Ted Arison.”
Royal Caribbean's Strategic Decisions
28:00 to 29:57
Explore Royal Caribbean's challenges and strategic choices in the cruise industry.
“And Royal Caribbean is lengthening its flagship, the Song of Norway, so it, too, will be able to hold over 1 ,000 passengers.”
Norwegian Cruise Line's Bold Move
29:57 to 31:28
Learn about Norwegian Cruise Line's acquisition of the SS France and its impact.
“Norwegian Cruise Line buys the SS France and begins refurbishing it.”
Gotas Larsen's Intervention
31:28 to 35:37
Discover how Gotas Larsen's new CEO influenced Royal Caribbean's direction.
“stubbornly believe their superior product will continue to outperform the competition, and their business structure makes it hard for them to make changes, even if they wanted to.”
Crisis at Carnival Cruise Line
35:37 to 40:05
Uncover the unfolding crisis at Carnival Cruise Line during a crew strike.
“As the decade turns to the 1980s, Royal Caribbean is making changes that will allow it to continue to lead the pack, while Carnival faces a stumbling block.”
Show all 14 chapters
Negotiation and Tension on the High Seas
40:05 to 42:00
Witness the tense negotiations between Carnival executives and striking crew members.
“We've already had to cancel two cruises.”
The Crew's Desperate Situation
42:00 to 43:34
Learn about the crew's struggle and confrontation with security forces.
“Show the world that we're standing strong!”
Mickey Arison's Show of Strength
43:34 to 45:29
Discover how Mickey Arison responds decisively to the strike.
“and the striking workers are left with nothing to show for their actions.”
Taking Carnival Public
45:29 to 47:27
Explore the critical decision of taking Carnival public and its implications.
“Ted and Mickey Arison sit in Mickey's office at Carnival headquarters.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Audible subscribers can listen to all episodes of Business Wars ad-free right now. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app.
0:16It's March 1972 in Miami Harbor. Carnival Cruise Line founder Ted Arison stands on the bridge of his ship the Mardi Gras. In front of him, the captain of the ship has his hand on the helm. Next to the captain, a harbor pilot gives him directions. This is standard operating procedure when a ship of significant size needs to make its way through the harbor into open sea. The harbor pilot barks out orders. All right, there's a stiff breeze from the east, so we're going to cut the rudder more aggressively than usual. Roger. Arison's palms are sweaty as he watches the captain intently. This is Carnival Cruise Line's maiden voyage.
0:56A few months ago, Arison got into a dispute with Canute Kloster. Arison and Kloster co-founded Norwegian Cruise Line. When their disagreement reached an impasse, Arison closed out Norwegian's U.S. bank accounts and fled to Europe. With help from an old friend, he purchased the Mardi Gras and started Carnival. Through the porthole, Arison can see onlookers lining the shore and members of the press snapping photos. Arison thinks he sees smirks on the reporters' faces. Compared to the sparkling new ships owned by rival companies like Norwegian and Royal Caribbean, the Mardi Gras is a clunker. It's old and dilapidated.
1:39Many of the cabins still don't have working toilets or electrical outlets and couldn't be booked. Large swaths of the ship are uninhabitable and closed off to passengers. And it's infested with both roaches and vermin, which Harrison hopes the guests won't notice. but Erison needs this first voyage to be a success. Kloster's sued to get Norwegians' money back, and Erison knows the courts will rule in Kloster's favor. Soon, he's going to be forced to pay Kloster back. Revenue from Carnival is the only way he'll be able to do that. The ship approaches the channel. The open sea is visible ahead. A jetty pokes out of the water to the right.
2:26The harbor pilot nods, and a small smile comes over his face. Giario Destra! Erison looks over at the captain. The harbor pilot had been giving all his commands in English, so Erison's not sure why he switched to Italian. But the captain is Italian, and doesn't have any trouble following the harbor pilot's command. Erison feels the ship start turning to the right. Suddenly, the harbor pilot begins to shout, Hey, what are you doing? Go left, go left! The captain looks at him, confused. You said Destra! Yes, left! Destra's right! The captain frantically tries to correct course, but it's too late.
3:06A loud groaning sound emanates up from the depths of the ship, and Erison finds himself jolting forward, almost falling over as the ship grinds to a stop. What just happened? What's going on? The captain glares at the harbor pilot. We've run aground on the sandbar due to an inaccurate command. Can we get off of it? I'm going to see if I can reverse the engines. That might free us. He calls out orders, and crew members hurry to comply. The engines whir and sand flies up out of the water, hitting the sides of the ship. But the ship doesn't move. The captain looks back at Arison and shakes his head.
3:45It's not working. Now what? We're going to have to get the tugboats out here and see if they can pull us out. How long will it take to get us free? Hours, maybe days. Then we'll have to examine the hull, make sure there's no damage before we sail. So we might have to cancel this entire cruise? Maybe. Arison feels nauseous. If they cancel, he'll have to refund every passenger their fee. And Arison will be broke once again. Carnival seems doomed before it's even made it to open water.
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5:50From Wondery, I'm David Brown and this is Business Wars.
6:22On our last episode, in 1966, businessman Ted Arison and shipbuilder Knut Kloster teamed up to start Norwegian Cruise Line. and together they took Caribbean cruising from a niche travel option for retired Floridians to a national vacation trend. Seeing their success, hotel veteran Ed Steffen wanted in on the action. He partnered with two Norwegian shipping families to start Royal Caribbean Cruise Line in 1968. With ships designed specifically for cruising and the goal of becoming the highest quality cruise company, Royal Caribbean made a quick splash. Both cruise companies were seeing their ships fully booked and predicted years of growth.
7:06But in 1971, Arison and Kloster had a falling out when Arison cleaned out the company's coffers. Using stolen funds from Norwegian Cruise Line, Arison started a new company and named it Carnival. Arison was determined to make Carnival the top cruise line in the world. But with only one rickety ship in his fleet and a disastrous start to its maiden voyage, Arison would need the wind at his back to catch up to his rivals. This is Episode 2, Making Waves.
7:46It's March 1972 in San Juan, Puerto Rico. Ted Arison stands on the dock with his arms crossed. Across from him is a fuel company employee. His shoulders heave as he laughs uproariously. Erison scowls. I don't understand what's so funny. Let me get this straight. You want us to extend you thousands of dollars of credit when your very first voyage grounded getting out of Miami, and you barely even made it here? The Mardi Gras was stuck in the harbor for 24 hours after it ran aground. They had to remove thousands of gallons of fuel from the ship's tanks to lighten the wait and wait for high tide in order to free her.
8:27Unfortunately, the freighter, which had siphoned out their gas, was not certified to refuel the ship. There was enough fuel in the tank to get the Mardi Gras to San Juan, but not enough to get it back. Arison needs to get this gas, or he and his passengers will be stranded in Puerto Rico, and he'll have yet another disaster on his hands. Look, I'm good for it. With respect, there isn't a person alive who thinks your company is going to last the month. If you want this diesel, you need to pay cash up front. Fine. I'll be back with the money soon. But as Arison walks away, his brave front fades.
9:08He doesn't have the thousands of dollars he needs to purchase tons of diesel. He spent everything he had on the ship. Ted Arison makes his way back onto the ship, where his son Mickey waits at the bar. They speak in hushed voices. So? Are they going to sell you the gas? Ted shakes his head and explains the situation. Are we going to get that kind of cash? I don't know. He cuts himself off, watching a bartender give a customer change. An idea occurring to him. Tonight, after closing time, get a team together and empty every cash register and every slot machine on this ship. You got it? Do you think that'll be enough?
9:51It has to be. Mickey nods. That night, Mickey and other members of the Carnival crews spend the whole night going through the ship, rounding up every spare penny they can find. The next morning, Ted returns to the refueling office carrying bags full of cash. He sets the bags down in front of the fuel company employee who'd laughed in Ted's face the day before. Ted smirks. The cash you asked for. The employee peers into one of the bags and looks up in disbelief. These are dimes and nickels. Cash is cash. The employee glares at Ted. We're counting every last penny, literally. Well, do what you have to do.
10:38To Ted's relief, he's scrounged up enough to buy the diesel he needs. The Mardi Gras is refueled and completes its maiden voyage. Carnival Cruise Line lives to fight another day. Barely. Despite its inauspicious start, Ted Arison beats the industry's prediction and keeps Carnival going. He's operating the cruise line on a shoestring, and every month he faces bankruptcy. But Arison keeps costs low to survive. He hires workers willing to work for the cheapest pay, often people from developing nations with few employment options. He orders food from military surplus suppliers. Sometimes it's rotting by the time it arrives on board and the crew is forced to throw it overboard.
11:28The vermin problem is tough to solve, and more than once rats make their way into passenger areas. This is not the glamorous experience offered by Norwegian Cruise Line and Royal Caribbean. So, to entice any passenger to take a voyage on a ship with such squalid conditions, Arison prices his cruises 20-30 % cheaper than his competitors. But even with lower prices, Carnival isn't selling out its sailings. And cruises only make money when they sail with a full ship. Within the first 18 months, Carnival loses$8 million. Meanwhile, Norwegian Cruise Line and Royal Caribbean are continuing to sell out, earning tidy profits.
12:16But Harrison's old friend, Meshulam Rickles, who's invested heavily in Carnival, isn't going to stand by and watch as Carnival loses money. So in the summer of 1973, Rickless installs Bob Dickinson, an executive who works for one of his other companies as the second-in-command at Carnival. Rickless tasks Dickinson with figuring out how to sell out Carnival cruises. So the company starts making a profit ASAP. Arison isn't happy about having a new colleague foisted upon him. But Dickinson soon proves himself.
12:59It's August 1973 in Miami, Florida. Ted Arison walks into a conference room in Carnival Cruise Line headquarters. His new second-in-command, Bob Dickinson, stands at the head of the table. He wears large glasses, sports a thin mustache, and a jacket that looks like it should be picnic cloth. Arison bites his lip. There's an entertainer who performs on board the Mardi Gras with a puppet who wears the exact same jacket. Arison can't believe he has to work with someone who dresses like a marionette. Across the table are brochures from every cruise line operating out of the United States. The big ones like Norwegian Cruise Line and Royal Caribbean, but also many of the smaller ones which have popped up like Holland America, which sails to Alaska, and Princess, which goes to Mexico.
13:49Arison takes in the array of bright colors and glossy paper. What's all this? Inspiration. Arison looks at him confused. Dickinson doesn't mince words. Your marketing stinks. He picks up a carnival brochure from the table and reads from it. Sail aboard the Mardi Gras, the flagship of our golden fleet? He lowers the brochure and gives Arison a withering look. Give me a break. You have no fleet and your one ship sure isn't golden. It's called advertising. You dress up your product to convince people to buy it. Sure, but your ship's a turd. And it's a turd people spend a lot of time on since it sails very slowly.
14:33Do you know how much fuel costs? Sailing slowly is how we conserve costs. Besides, we've made a lot of improvements. We figured out the rat problem, for instance. What do you want, a gold star? Have you seen Royal Caribbean ships? They're so clean you could eat off the floor. Now they have a golden fleet. All right, all right, so what's your grand idea? Just say, hey, hey, here's Crappy Boat, come on board. No, of course not. We need something that's not so easily disprovable. I mean, people step on board the Mardi Gras and they know right away they were sold a load of goods. Dickinson surveys the brochures he has spread out on the table.
15:14His eyes gravitate toward one for a small cruise company called Commodore. He picks it up. The happy ship. Hmm, I like that. We need something like that. Besides being happy, what else do people want to feel when they're on vacation? Relaxed? The relaxing ship. No, that's weak. Let's see. He drums his fingers on the table and looks up at the ceiling, thinking. Got it. Fun. They want to have fun. We'll be the fun ship. We can turn the fact that we're less stuffy than Royal Caribbean and Norwegian cruise line into a good thing. Also, if the ship's fun, people won't mind that they spend more time at sea than they do aboard the other cruise lines.
15:59Arison nods. He hates to admit it, but it's not a bad slogan. Dickinson looks back at Arison. Of course, you'll have to make the ship actually fun. Arison and Dickinson decide that what the Mardi Gras needs in order to live up to its new title as the fun ship is more attractions on board. They go about adding a disco, lounges, and more bars. But what they think it really needs is a full casino. The ship has slot machines on board, but they want it to have a wider array of games, including blackjack and roulette. But they soon run into a roadblock.
16:43It's late 1974 in Miami, Florida. Ted Arison paces his office, extending the cord of his phone until it's taut before turning and watching it spiral again. He's talking to his old friend Meshulam Rickless. Carnival is a subsidiary of Rickless' company, American International Travel Service. Arison pleads his case. We need this, Rick. A full casino is going to take Carnival to the next level. Come on, you're a businessman. You have to see the sense in this. Besides, it was your man Bob Dickinson who came up with a whole funship slogan, and that's what... I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm saying I can't do it.
17:22I just bought a casino in Vegas. Yeah, the Riviera, I know. Well, I'm still doing my hearings with the Nevada Game Commission, and it's going to complicate things if I have to say I own a cruise ship that has an unregulated casino on it. Arison sighs, frustrated He's pretty sure that Rickless primarily bought the Riviera to provide a stage for his wife The singer and actress Pia Zadora And now Arison's business is going to suffer because of it So, where does this leave us? If we don't get this casino, I truly believe that Carnival will stay in the red To be frank with you, I think Carnival's going to stay in the red with or without the casino I know Bob's made some improvements, but you're still not turning a profit.
18:09And the price of fuel is through the roof. Okay, so what do we do? Well, I want out. So I tell you what, I'll sell Carnival to you for a dollar. But you have to take on the five million dollar debt load. Arison leaps at the opportunity to be in full control of the company. Deal! You really believe in this company, huh? I really do. All right, then. It's yours. If you ever make any money with it, send me a present. You got it. Arison grins from ear to ear. For once, he feels like fortune is on his side. Arison's belief in Carnival is proved right. In January 1975, three years after its ill-fated maiden voyage, Carnival turns its first profit.
19:05And by the mid-1970s, Carnival, Norwegian Cruise Line, and Royal Caribbean are all turning a profit. But several other cruise companies have popped up in Miami and in various ports along the West Coast. Industry experts are starting to get nervous about just how many ships the market can support. The majority of cruise customers come from Florida, California, and New York. and none of the companies feel like they are profitable enough to launch a major nationwide marketing campaign. Fortunately, Hollywood decided to launch one for them.
19:48It's early 1975 in Los Angeles, California. Television producer Douglas Kramer walks into a crowded restaurant and scans the room until he finds Aaron Spelling, the producer he's meeting. Kramer nods and weaves through the crowded restaurant until he reaches Spelling's table. Kramer drops a book on the table. Say hello to your next hit TV show. I read the review in the L.A. Times yesterday and sent my assistant out to the nearest bookstore to buy me a copy. I stayed up all night reading it. I read that review. The author certainly made it sound like cruise ships are sordid affairs. The Times didn't print the half of it.
20:25She talks about them like they're just giant floating sex parties. Okay, so tell me, how do you turn a giant floating sex party into a hit network television show? It's a weekly series where we follow the crew of the ship. We create a dynamic cast of characters, including the peppy cruise director, the playboy doctor, the fatherly captain, and so on. And every week, we meet a new set of passengers with problems that will be solved. You know, marriages will be reconciled, family feuds will come to a head. there'll be a wide array of romantic entanglements between the crew and the passengers. He leans back in his seat.
21:04We'll call it The Love Boat. Huh. You know, I think it's going to be a smash. The Love Boat premieres first as a made-for-TV movie in 1976, and then as a weekly show in 1977. With its funny and sexy portrayal of life on board a cruise ship, It serves as millions of dollars worth of product placement for the cruise industry. At the start of the 1970s, around 500 ,000 people go on cruises each year. But by the end of the 90s, it's around 5 million. And the love boat gets credit for much of that boost. And with this new boom, Carnival, Norwegian Cruise Line, and Royal Caribbean enter into fierce competition over who will entice the most passengers.
21:56On board.
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24:15It's 1978 in Miami, Florida. Please welcome to the stage Carnival CEO Ted Arison. Ted Arison makes his way through a small convention room. He's attending an industry conference and all of his competitors are here. Arison hopes that what he's about to say is going to strike fear in their hearts. With Bob Dickinson's help and bolstered by the success of The Love Boat, Arison has struck on a winning formula for Carnival. They offer cheaper fares and a more casual, wilder experience on board. They host events like belly flop contests and beer pong competitions and have dropped the formal dress code for dinner.
24:57Since 1975, Carnival has turned a profit. Arison paid back what he owed to Norwegian Cruise Line and invested the rest of the money back into Carnival. And as soon as he had the funds, he bought two more ships to expand Carnival's fleet. They were older ships that Arison was able to get a good deal on. But that's about to change. Arison steps in front of the microphone. Good afternoon. It's good to see everyone. I'm here today to make an historic announcement. Just a short while ago, Carnival signed an agreement to build a brand new$100 million cruise ship. It will be called the Tropical, and it will be the best, most advanced ship on the market.
25:44A man in the front row is so surprised by Arison's announcement, he chokes on his drink, causing himself to cough. Arison looks out into the stunned crowd and grins. He understands their shock. Carnival isn't even worth$100 million. Arison is taking a big risk building this ship. He's going to be juggling bills and stalling suppliers for years to pay for it. But he's convinced this is the only way forward. As new passengers are tempted to test out cruising after watching The Love Boat on TV, bigger, better ships are going to be essential to winning them over and becoming the largest cruise company in the world.
26:26Harrison's big bet on the Tropicale may seem brazen to the leaders of other cruise companies, but it kicks them into action.
Read the full transcript
26:40It's 1979, in Oslo, Norway. Knut Kloster paces inside an executive's office in Norwegian Cruise Line Headquarters. I think we need to do it. Yeah, it's risky, but look at her. He points to a black-and-white photo of a ginormous ocean liner called the SS France. The sleek white ship dwarfs everything around her. She's a beauty, as long as six city blocks. If we bought it, we'd have the largest cruise ship in the world, not Ted Arison. Kloster agreed to a settlement in his suit against Ted Arison, in which Arison would pay back 60 % of what he owed Kloster. Arison made good on that agreement, but Kloster still harbors bad blood toward his old friend and partner.
27:28Kloster worked hard to save his company after Arison emptied its U.S. accounts. And through careful management, Kloster kept the company going and eventually expanded Norwegian Cruise Line to a fleet of four ships. But Royal Caribbean has surpassed them, and now Kloster feels Arison's carnival nipping at his heels. Part of the issue is that Norwegian Cruise Line ships are relatively small. They only hold 700 passengers. Erison's Tropical will be able to hold over 1 ,000 passengers. And Royal Caribbean is lengthening its flagship, the Song of Norway, so it, too, will be able to hold over 1 ,000 passengers.
28:11Kloster leans forward. You know, I got into this business to be an industry leader, and we're not. Royal Caribbean made a splash by designing its own boats. Carnival owns the largest cruise ship in the world. And we just keep chugging along, slow and steady. With respect, slow and steady is what wins the race. Fuel prices are astronomical. Economists are worried about a recession. I remind you, we have no idea if Arison's bet is even going to pay off. He could lose his entire company. At least he's trying to do something big. The executive points to the photo of the SS France. This ship can hold over 2 ,000 passengers, correct?
28:59Yes. Okay, so this is back-of-the-envelope math, but if we buy this ship, we'll own about 40 % of the passenger capacity that's sailing to the Caribbean. You think we can fill that? Kloster is quiet for a moment, thinking. He stares at the photo of the enormous ship. I honestly don't know. But I do know that I've always been frustrated by how timid people are in this country. Everyone is so conservative, scared to rock the boat, so to speak. But what right do I have to cast aspersions on my countrymen if I make the same cowardly choices? If I want to be a revolutionary, I need to take some risks.
29:44Yeah. We're buying the SS France. and we'll see if we can fill it. The executive does his best to hide his worried expression. All right, we'll start the process. Norwegian Cruise Line buys the SS France and begins refurbishing it. The company makes full use of its size. They install a 500-seat theater which can mount shows straight from Broadway. They build out a host of bars and lounges to appeal to a variety of tastes from those who want to live out their disco dreams to others who would prefer to sit in a library lined with leather-bound books. They even put in a driving range. When the renovations are complete, they rename it the Norway.
30:29And when it launches in 1980, it's an immediate sensation. The ship is so massive that some passengers claim they completely forget they're on a ship at all. Between Carnival's focus on creating fun ships and the extravagance of the Norway, the attraction of cruises is becoming more about the ships themselves than the destinations. And with Carnival and Norwegian Cruise Line making splashes with their new ships, Royal Caribbean realizes it's time to make a change themselves. Instead of buying new ships, Royal Caribbean had decided to take a more cautious approach to extend the length of the ships in its current fleet.
31:12And while that expanded their capacity, it didn't make passengers excited about the change. It also didn't end up saving them much money in the long run. Royal Caribbean remains the industry leader, but the others, especially Carnival, are gaining ground. But the two main families who own Royal Caribbean stubbornly believe their superior product will continue to outperform the competition, and their business structure makes it hard for them to make changes, even if they wanted to. Their charter requires unanimity on every board decision. Two of the three partners in the company, Sigurd Skoggen and Arn Wilhelmsen, just don't like each other.
31:53They disagree on the smallest of details, making unanimity impossible to achieve. Royal Caribbean is stuck in neutral. But then, the third partner in Royal Caribbean, another Norwegian shipping company called Gotas Larsen, is sold to a U.S. holding company. At first, Royal Caribbean is such a small part of the holding company's portfolio that the executives don't pay it much attention. But in 1979, the holding company spins Gotas Larsen off into its own company. And when Gotas Larsen's new CEO, Jack Seabrook, learns that Royal Caribbean is burning through cash and is on its way to having less than a million dollars in the bank, he realizes that he needs to take action.
32:49It's 1979 in London, England. Jack Seabrook follows a receptionist through the London offices of Gotas Larsson. Seabrook is based out of the U.S., but the conversation he's about to have is so important, he's flown to England to have it in person. The receptionist leads Seabrook to the corner office and knocks on the door. A young executive named Richard Fane opens it. He has broad shoulders and bushy eyebrows. He greets Seabrook with a wide grin. Jack, so good to see you. How was the flight? Seabrook hired Fane several years ago at a previous company as a favor to an important business contact.
33:28But Fane has proved himself to be a sharp businessman with a diplomatic touch. He's exactly who Seabrook needs for this important assignment. Seabrook follows Fane into his office, and the two men sit. Well, the flight was long, but it's good to be here. I have something important to discuss. I'm making you our main point of contact with Royal Caribbean. That company is a complete mess, and I need you to fix it. Okay, how do you think they're going to react? Not well. They're used to the owner of these shares acting as a silent partner, but I need you to start talking. I do like to talk. They have a great product.
34:08Their service is top-notch. You go into a Royal Caribbean cabin and there are 52 complimentary items. You feel taken care of on their ships, completely catered to. But Sigurd Skoggin and Arn Villamson just do not give one iota about making money. Yeah, I've seen some interactions between Sigurd and Arn. They do seem to prioritize one-upping each other over anything else. Yes, so I need you to be the adult in the room. There's no way a company doing as much business as Royal Caribbean should have less than a million in the bank. There needs to be guardrails against that. Fane nods. Understood. I will drag these squabbling Norwegians into a functional corporation.
34:53You're the best man for the job. I'm counting on you. Soon after Jack Seabrook's mandate, Richard Fane finds the leverage he needs to start making changes at Royal Caribbean. The company finally decides it wants to build a new ship. and Fein tells Skoggen and Wilhelmsen that Gotas Larsson will only commit their portion of the financing if the company makes changes to its structure. They require that the company keep$3 million on reserve before it pays dividends to the partners, allowing for a rainy day fund. He also convinces them to change the charter so that a simple majority is all that's needed to make decisions, rather than requiring unanimity to move forward.
35:37As the decade turns to the 1980s, Royal Caribbean is making changes that will allow it to continue to lead the pack, while Carnival faces a stumbling block.
35:54It's the afternoon of April 19th, 1981, on board the SS Carnival, a Carnival cruise ship. Newlywed Suzanne Boone unpacks her suitcase inside her small cabin. Behind her, her husband flips through a brochure of all the amenities on the boat. All the food looks scrumptious. We have to try everything. Well, it's a good thing we have a whole week at sea to work our way through the menu. All passengers are to disembark from the ship immediately. I repeat, all passengers are to disembark from the ship immediately. Boone looks at her husband, confused. What? What's going on? We're supposed to set sail in an hour.
36:37I don't know, but hopefully it's just a small blip. I wouldn't worry too much. Trust me, we're going to have the best honeymoon. They make their way out of their cabin and join other passengers making their way off the ship. As they reach the gangway, they see a large group of crew members gathered on the bow of the ship. Boone stares at them. They look like deckhands, cooks, porters, launderers. They're shouting, strike, over and over again. Boone looks at her husband nervously. She doesn't think this is going to blow over quickly. It sure looks like her honeymoon is on hold, and that Carnival has a major problem on its hands.
37:40It's Sunday, April 19th, 1981, in Miami, Florida. Mickey Arison marches through Carnival's headquarters until he finds a group of executives huddled together in an office. Two years ago, Ted Arison announced that Mickey would take on the role of president of Carnival and would oversee the day-to-day operation of the company. Ted would remain as chairman and focus on the long-term vision. Many Carnival executives were surprised by the move, thinking Mickey was still a few years away from such a promotion. So when Mickey received the call that Sunday afternoon that there was a crisis, he knew his response would be seen as a test of his leadership capabilities.
38:21He wants to prove himself as the rightful leader of Carnival. As Mickey approaches the executives, he whips off his large sunglasses and hooks them on his shirt, which is unbuttoned, exposing quite a bit of his chest. Okay, tell me exactly what's going on. An older executive turns to him. Roughly three hours ago, crew members on board the Carnival called for a strike. They convinced the crew of the Mardi Gras to join them. They've tied the ships together and are insisting that the ships won't sail until their demands are met. The instigators seem to be primarily the deckhands and the porters. Okay, and what exactly are their demands?
39:02Well, that's not entirely clear. From what we can gather, this was a fairly spontaneous action, so there doesn't seem to be much of a plan. But we're hearing they want two employees who were fired this morning reinstated. There's also vague talk about better working conditions. A young executive hovering around the edges clears his throat. If I may, they may have a point. Our crew sleeps six to a cabin. They work 12 hours a day for months with no time off. The older executive interjects. That's perfectly legal. If they don't like it, they can go find a job in their home countries. Because Carnival's ships sail under the Panama flag, the company does not have to follow U.S.
39:45law on minimum wage and working conditions. Most of their below-deck positions are filled with workers from developing nations. Mickey runs his hand through his long hair. Yeah, I admit you're not wrong. We should have been better about our crew relationships, but it's too late now. And this isn't how you go about making change. The older executive nods. Exactly. We need to end this soon. We've already had to cancel two cruises. That means we've refunded seven figures worth of fees. We don't know what these people have planned. I mean, they could light our ships on fire, destroy pipes on board, or some other kind of sabotage.
40:25Mickey bites his lip. I need everyone thinking about how we can end this mutiny immediately, all right? It takes three days for Mickey and the other executive to put together a plan. On the fourth day of the strike, Carnival executives make their move.
40:47It's April 22, 1981, in Miami, Florida. The striking crew members gather below decks. They're tired, both physically and mentally. They've held the ships for four days, but since this was a spontaneous action and not backed by any union, they've had little support. No strike fund. No one arranging food. And many strikers are wondering if they've made a mistake. One of the ringleaders comes in, grinning. He works his way to the front of the room and climbs on top of a chair. Ha, I just got word from Mickey Arison. He's ready to negotiate.
41:27The gathered workers cheer. Some cry while others look up, thanking God for answering their prayers. He's asked me and the other leaders to meet with him on shore. The group can hear the faint whirr of a helicopter overhead. News crews have been covering the strike and have been repeatedly sending helicopters to gather footage. Every time they hear one, the strikers take the opportunity to gather on the bow to wave their signs and show the strength of their numbers and try to gain public support. The ringleader yells out, Go! Show the world that we're standing strong! Si se puede! Si se puede!
42:05Si se puede! The crew members hurry to the bow while the leaders make their way on shore. The crew members cluster at the front of the ship, waving to the camera that they can see from the door of the helicopter. There's renewed energy among the crowd. What do we want? Airplane! When do we want it? Now! What do we want? Airplane! Off the boat! Now! Let's move! The group turns and sees dozens of armed men decked out in full tactical gear, marching toward them, funneling the workers toward the exit. The crew members start to panic, running, screaming. The armed men have them surrounded. I'm gonna blow your head off if you don't move right now.
42:46Let's go! One of the crew members, scared but defiant, confronts one of the armed men. Who are you, police? Private security, courtesy of Mickey Arison. The crew member is initially confused. Mickey Arison had agreed to negotiate. Why would he do this now? But before he can think about it too hard, he hears the sound of the helicopter flying away. He looks up and realizes that the helicopter was not a news chopper at all. It was just a decoy. And all of this was just one giant trap. He and the other crew members are forced off the ship onto buses, where immigration officers begin the process of deporting the striking workers back to their home countries.
43:30Mickey Arison and Carnival have their ships back, and the striking workers are left with nothing to show for their actions. They've lost their jobs and are facing deportation. To Mickey Arison, his response to the strike is a definitive show of strength. Executives who thought he was a lightweight, more of a party boy than a CEO, now see his mettle. And with the strike behind him, Mickey decides to make another show of strength. In 1982, the day the Tropical, the$100 million ship his father Ted ordered, arrives in port, the Arisons make another announcement that stuns the industry. They're not stopping with the Tropical.
44:17They're ordering three more massive ships. Carnival is on its way to building the golden fleet Ted always said he would own. And to fill those ships, Carnival launches the first national TV commercial for cruising. If they could see you now out on a fun ship cruise Eating fancy food and doing what you choose I'd like your friends back home to get a good look At the first-rate Carnival cruise that you took Carnival can take you where the fun is on a three-, four-, or seven-day cruise vacation to the Bahamas, Caribbean, or Mexican Riviera. Once you've sailed aboard a fun ship, you'll know why Carnival's the most popular cruise line in the world.
45:06Carnival is growing, and growing fast. But all of their endeavors require capital. And soon, it becomes clear that there's only one way to raise the money they need to reach the heights that Mickey and Ted, aspire to.
45:29It's 1986 in Miami, Florida. Ted and Mickey Arison sit in Mickey's office at Carnival headquarters. A high-ranking executive has requested a meeting with the two of them. Mickey untwists a paperclip as he waits. What do you think John wants to meet about? Why, try to predict. He'll be here in a second to tell us himself. Speak of the devil, come in. The door opens and the executive walks in, greeting Ted and Mickey before taking a seat. Thank you both for meeting with me. I have some exciting news I wanted to share with you right away. My team and I have been doing the analysis and we think it's time to take Carnival public.
46:08Mickey blanches. Doesn't that involve a roadshow where you travel the country pitching your company to investors? That's a standard part of the process, yes. Mickey nods, his lips pursed. While Mickey can be outgoing and direct with his employees, he's painfully shy around people he doesn't know. Ted shakes his head. The roadshow's not the problem. Mickey will step up and do what he needs to do, if that's the best path forward. But I'm not convinced that it is. Some of our best moves have been... financially dicey. I don't know if we could have built the Tropical or ordered three more ships after the Tropical was delivered, if we had to answer to shareholders.
46:53That's true. It would change the way you do business. But you two are ambitious, and the only way you're going to become the biggest cruise ship company in the world is to go public. Now, if you don't, well, then I think Carnival's probably reached its top level. Ted and Mickey exchange a glance. They don't need to say anything. if this is what they need to do to be the biggest cruise company in the world, then that's what they're going to do. But they're not the only cruise company going public. Norwegian Cruise Line has come to the same decision, and soon the two companies and longtime rivals will be going head-to-head for investor money, and only one will come out as the master of the high seas.
47:47Follow Business Wars on the Audible app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to all episodes of Business Wars ad-free by joining Audible. From Wondery, this is Episode 2 of Cruise Ship Wars for Business Wars. A quick note about recreations you've been hearing. In most cases, we can't know exactly what was said. Those scenes are dramatizations, but they're based on historical research. If you'd like to read more, we recommend Devils on the Deep Blue Sea by Christopher A. Guerin and Selling the Sea by Bob Dickinson and Andy Vladimir. I'm your host, David Brown. Austin Rackless wrote this story.
48:25Sound design by Josh Morales. Fact-checking by Gabrielle Jolet. Voice acting by Michelle Phillippe and Kieran Regan. Our producers are Emily Frost and Grant Rutter. Our managing producer is Matt Gann. Our coordinating producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Ryan Lohr. Our senior producers are Karen Lowe and Dave Schilling. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer-Beckman and Marshall Louis for Wondery.
From the publisher
After his bitter exit from Norwegian Cruise Line, Ted Arison has limited time to make his new company Carnival a success. With little funds and one run-down ship, the odds are stacked against him. Meanwhile, Norwegian Cruise Line and Royal Caribbean compete to be the most luxurious cruise ship company on the market. And all three get an unexpected boost from Hollywood.
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