Abby Wambach and Glennon Doyle: Intimacy, Cheating & Starting Over

34:08Like, let's go, let's party. Like I was like that person that they kind of knew and they have to kind of get more acquainted with the knew me, which is a little bit more quiet, a little bit more subdued. I still like to tell a good story. In fact, one of my former teammates, we got together. It was one of our former teammates' 40th birthday. And we were at dinner and she just looked at me and she's like, I like this version of you. And it meant so much to me. I kind of got emotional at the table because that's a fear. Like when you change your life so dramatically, you change your relationships because of it.

34:49If you change yourself so dramatically, your relationships shift. Of course they do. And you wonder, like, will they like me as this person? And so it was nice to get that affirmation from her. And at the end of the day, like we've built a life as a family together that, you know, if you were to have children one day, like your family and your kids become your source of everything. And so, yes, your friends and their opinions of you, like it matters on some level. But like also like the things that matter the most is like, what am I what does my wife think? Like, am I doing am I doing OK? I think I'm am I doing OK?

35:31I think I'm doing great. You know, in speaking about your wife, can we talk about how the two of you met? Because when I was doing my research, I was like, wait, this is like a fucking epic story. You guys know this is like. It's hot and cute and I am obsessed. OK, so. You release a book, Miss Glennon, you release a book and this book is about your husband at the time he had cheated and you write about finding out he cheated and you're you're going to stay yes and you go to a book event tell me the story what happens so yeah so I am I have I've just gotten sober I'm also releasing my my first book my memoir and this is a a librarian's convention event.

36:24And essentially what happens, and people might not know this, I did not know this. Librarians come together in a convention every year, and then authors come up and kind of pitch their books to sell their books to all the libraries of the United States. And so that's what this event was. So I walk in, and I'm a little bit late, which never happens. And so I'm a little bit flustered. And I walk into the back room of this convention, where the rest of the the librarians or the authors were, were eating dinner. And I walk into this room and on the way to the event, I should say, I checked out who the other authors were going to be.

37:02So I could like know their names and, you know, and I saw Glennon and I knew nothing about Glennon. And I just read her like little blurb and it was like sober, you know, mother of three. The book was about the, the redemption of her marriage through infidelity, et cetera. And I was like, oh, perfect. Like she's sober, maybe she'll know how to do sobriety. No pressure. I've never met a sober person, literally. And so I walk in this room and all of a sudden I look up and Glennon is standing, everybody else is sitting. She has got to her feet and stretched her arms like this. She's all the way across the room.

37:42And I'm like, okay, well, that's Glennon, the one I want to meet this is great like she knows me she thinks i'm cool so we'll get to have a conversation but i like she's around the table so it was weird it was weird everyone was like why is she standing up like it was really weird yeah it was a bizarre well then i and then yeah and i didn't know what to do because now i'm stuck up here and i so let me let me do you're standing here to hug her we're at a long table full of authors and i stood up like this no like And then she's awkward. I thought maybe if I bow, people will think I just bow when people walk in rooms.

38:21I lost control of my body. Glennon, Glennon, wait, Abby, she's basically standing up like the fucking Lion King. And then she's bowing. What are you thinking? And what are you thinking in this moment? And what are you doing? Yeah, it was. What? It was something. I think it was one of the weirdest moments of my life. But I think it was a moment where it was in my body. like, I really do. I thought of this a million different ways because it's so weird. And there was a lot of writers at the table who still talk about it and try to get me to explain what happened. I didn't know Abby. Of course, I did not follow the soccer.

38:58I did not. But she walked in the room and I was like, holy shit, like something just took over my body. And I called it at the moment, love at first sight, but I don't think that's what it was. I think it was desire. And I think for somebody who lives in their head, I had never, I just had relationships with people who I thought made sense to have relationships with. Like, that seems like a good, like, I just never felt it in my body. And so it was the, the best way I can explain it. It was that it was just a moment where my body was like, there she is. You better get your ass up. This is an important moment.

39:37In your body was at all romantic way. Like I just never was like a very sexual being because I just felt like I used to think of sex as something you do like like how you have to get the oil change just you just do it so the car doesn't break down and people don't start to say why aren't you having sex with me and like you just have to do it to like keep things running smoothly I know so I didn't before that moment even know what it felt like to be like sexually alive so i think it was a moment my first moment of sexual aliveness although i would not have at a librarian's church i know i'm like damn when you're like i'm getting turned on it was an inconvenient time like the fuck is she doing i never kissed a girl i never had a relationship with a woman or kissed i'd never you didn't know any sober people i didn't know any gay people yeah yeah right yeah basically i mean christian i was a sunday school teacher and it was so interesting because this moment happens and I have to go over to hug her because she's standing makes it so awkward I'm like okay so we I hug and then I have to go sit in my seat which is like around the table not next to her and I'm just like there's something happening that I can't fully explain because I'm I keep looking at her and I'm like huh like that's something is happening here and then we get seated next to each other on the dais on the on the platform what is it called yeah the dais yeah and the woman who was working for me at the time i i have to sign some autographs after the event she unbeknownst to me because the whole time when glennon got up to speak i was like i can speak in front of a crowd of people no problem and i was like fumbling my words i was like nervous.

41:32I was like, oh my gosh, get me out of here. And Glennon gets up and she speaks and she's like so eloquent and perfect. And I was just like looking at her like the whole time. And so after the event, I'm like meeting with some booksellers and my assistant at the time went up to Glennon and said, I don't know why I'm saying this and I don't know what is going on, but Abby needs you in her life. I was like, got it. I'm in. I'm not hard to get. Like I have been sexually awoken. Put me in. First of all, did you feel at all like at this point she's married to a man. Are you like wondering at all? Like it could this even be like, would she even be interested or are you not even thinking romantic yet?

42:21I am curious. okay okay and as a a lesbian woman who grew up in the 90s 80s and 90s where a lot of the people that i have been with in my life were previously straight and then went back to being straight just the way it goes for some of us i was i was side-eyeing her around like what's going on here something was happening. I felt it. And so then I went back into my hotel room that night and I read her book. And I got to the end of that fucking book. And I was like, you fucking stay together? That can't be. I was like heartbroken. I was like, oh, and I, by the way, I'm the slowest reader in the whole world.

43:11I read from like 10 p.m. till 3 a.m. to try to figure out what was going to happen with this. And I was like, devastated. I was like, oh my gosh. And then a few days later, she emails me. What does this email say? Give me the gist. Okay. So I think, so on the dais, Abby had told me that her people wanted her to write her memoir as like a Captain America story, like shiny, no problems. Here I'm Abby Wambach. I hadn't finished it yet. Right. Yeah. And then she said, but I feel like maybe I want to tell the real truth. About the DUI and the drinking and the prescription drugs. Yeah. And she was so upset.

44:00She felt like her drinking was like this big, dark secret that no one could know. But she's from like shiny sports world. And I'm a writer and an artist. I'm like, so what? Everyone is an alcoholic. You know, like that's not. And I said, you're leaving that world and you're entering the real world. And in the real world, we like real people. So, of course, you show people who you are. Great advice, by the way. So the email that I sent, I think I was like pretending that I just would be your like spiritual guide. I was just like, you need some help? Like, hey, I'm the one you met from the library.

44:41Although I do remember that when we reread the first sentence of the email, it said, I don't know much about you. I do know a little bit about men's soccer because my husband is a fan. But I do feel like I'm over men in general. So that was not hiding. That was not subtle. God. Right? Remember how much I just like scoured all of those emails. I was just like looking for clues for clues. Yeah, like what is she trying to say here? Wait, you say you're over men as you're like married to this man. Abby's like, huh. I know. Interesting. So when throughout this email process, do you think each of you recognize this is turning romantic?

45:21Good question. Well, it's weird because at the time she was going on her book. She was about to go on like this, the whole giant book tour. Oprah just picked it for a book club pick as like the marriage redemption story. That's how it was being sold all over the place. And I guess we went from email to like started texting. And honestly, like instantly when we started texting, then we had like a phone call. And I think like honestly, and this is the God's honest truth. The second we felt like that we communicated that there were real feelings happening, she said, I got to talk to Craig. I can't do this.

46:03Well, first I went to a therapist. my therapist I sat down with my therapist and told her the whole thing I said I think I'm in love with this woman I I she had been with me through the marriage I said I cannot I cannot have sex with my husband again like I can't something about my body like we hadn't even been in the same room together besides that but I just couldn't do it and she said I understand what you're saying about not being able to have sex with him anymore. Have you considered just giving blowjobs? Because many women find that to be less intimate. My therapist said that to me. Alex, that was the moment.

46:45I was like, as God is my witness, I will never give a blowjob. I don't know much, but I freaking know that much. and so it was something about that woman looking at me and saying squash this it's not real just give blowjobs the rest of your life where I was like oh no thank you no no no but then right after that you were like I have to talk to Craig yes okay yes what did you say I just said I mean we had been through so much and this man is an amazing father and we married each other because it was the right thing to do, not because we were right for each other. And we both knew that. And in retrospect, when I think about how we got married, I really railroaded it.

47:32I was scared. I was freshly sober. I was pregnant. And I thought, we got to do this. We need to become a family. And I ignored every terrified look in his eyes. We weren't ready. But he did the best he could. And there was infidelity and it was messy. But I just remember thinking, I don't owe this man the rest of my life, but I do owe him the truth about now. So I just said, I am in love with a woman. And there was a lot of silence. And then a week later, we told the kids. And we had not even tested. We had not been together except for that one night. We blew it all up. just like you had never even kissed you had never okay hold on no her whole life did that freak you out a little no no yeah you're like let's go you were waiting for a girl a straight girl to blow up her whole life and choose you i was and not go back yes i was waiting for it but like here's the thing everything about this story a sane person would be like this is this is not correct you you should probably slow down.

48:43This is, you should do this a different way. And I totally get that. But there was everything in my total body and knowing. And I think it was true for you, Glennon, that it was like, this is where I'm supposed to be. This is the person that I'm supposed to build a life with. How did your family react to you being like, I'm with a woman now? So I remember texting my sister, who was my person, we are inseparable, from a dressing room. at the mall. And I just said, I am in love with Abby Wambach. That's such a funny text. I just kept dropping sentences. Funny text. It's so good. It's just like hard to, there's no lead in that's going to make it better.

49:25So just, and then. She's like, yeah, we all are. Yeah, we all are. Join the club. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, but like if I got bad texts, I'd be like, oh yeah, like you're getting into soccer. Right. Cool. Like it's about time. Like, like no. Finally. yeah and i said i'm in love with abby wambach and i will never be able to be with her and i am brokenhearted and she wrote back and it was like you know when you're like staring at the dots like what is coming and she said well you have spent too much of your life brokenhearted and it was just like her immediate way of saying all right let's go no we're not going to land on just broken hearted.

50:06Like, let's that's hard. Let's choose the other hard. So she was just there was a lot to work through. But she was just immediately like, let's do this. Can you share with me once you guys got into this relationship, everyone brings a little bit of baggage from their past, obviously, and you having gotten cheated on. How did that impact your guys relationship with okay I hit the mother load you're like okay how did it impact your guys relationship with trust

50:57everyone brings a little bit of baggage from their past obviously and you having gotten cheated on how did it impact your guys relationship with trust so i have never been in a relationship that I wasn't cheated on. Okay. Every single one of them, all of them. And I never know. I never know until I know. So I went into this relationship, having part of myself know that it was going to happen again. And I, I don't think I would have been able to explain this at the time, but I think I felt like, okay, well, I can't control whether it's going to happen, but I can control whether I'm just totally annihilated by it.

51:34Like I can control whether I'm surprised by it. I just won't be surprised by it because that's the part I can't handle. So a lot of things happen. But one day, Abby was in the shower and she got out too fast, like faster than her normal shower. She got out too fast or too fast for you? It was completely her fault. And she opened our door and I was on her phone, in bed, on her phone, looking through her phone. and

52:05it's so funny I really like having the moral high ground like I don't I don't know what to do in that exact sort of situation I wanted to die and we just both stared at each other for a second and then she says she says oh honey what else do you need do you do you need my email passwords like what what else do you need to feel safe wow i've also been cheated on and so like it was this moment that i was like huh okay this is not about me i know what i'm doing and i'm not doing anything weird i'm like this the most boring person in the whole wide world i can confirm that based on my like what the hell shit's boring yeah come on and i think like i don't know i just think that it's really in that moment it's really she's trying to soothe something a fear that's happening and i recognize that immediately and of course you have that fear i can't be mad at you for for being scared yeah I was really scared that's something that has happened in your life and one of the vows that we have made especially since we've gotten married because we did actually make vows is like we don't want to use each other's weaknesses against each other like that's a that's something that is a tender spot and it's a tender spot to me too so like when these things kind of come up, we can't use it against each other.

53:49Cause like I could have, and I know I've not been like this in my life. This is probably sobriety really helping me be like, what the fuck? Like when you're not sober, you're keeping secrets. Like they might not be cheating secrets, but you're keeping secrets. Like that's how you stay alcoholic. Like it's the secrets that take you down. So in my sobriety, I was just like, yeah, like, what do you want? You want my email passwords luckily i can never remember passwords so that wouldn't have helped me and i didn't need all of that it was just that moment of like such kindness and such i think it got just better after that did it yeah i mean i don't know have you been looking at my phone not since tuesday but now but now we have every each other's passwords to everything like like i can open her computer with my fingerprint like the whole thing I also love what you guys talked about with the phone and the trust thing because I have had so many people come on and it hasn't been the reaction that you've given Abby which I can imagine there is a level of anger for sure someone has where it's like you don't trust me why are you going through my stuff but to be met with such grace and love that makes now sense why Glenn then you're like oh and then I never need to do it again because when they also blow up, it does give you even more pause as the person looking through being like, well, what are you freaking out about?

55:10And what is there to hide? Not that there's always something to hide, but that moment I do think is a defining moment for a lot of relationships based off of here, have everything. Not that you need to give them everything, but it's a nice gesture to be like, I have not, I go on my Candy Crush account. Like there is literally nothing on my phone that I feel like I need to hide. Well, you have to think about it because like there's, there's the defensiveness that shows up right and what is underneath the defensiveness it's like okay they don't trust me that then that's like the next level and then you have to go deeper than that it's like why don't they trust me and then it has literally probably nothing to do with you that's right so it's like if you can do that equation and process that really quickly look i have i have been the one that's like what you don't trust me and i'm defensive and i and i'm like standing in the trust part of it.

56:01It's like actually go one step deeper and honesty, like being honest with yourself. Because if you have, if you have untrustworthy behavior that would kind of propel somebody or, or, or make them want to look through your stuff in a way to like figure out where you are or like find my whatever, like, of course that, that you will, yeah it's just important to do that process and to realize it's not necessarily a lot of stuff in relationship isn't about you no i was thinking i can't trust myself to make a good decision that's what i thought right that's all the research and whatever like i cannot trust myself to know if something's going on yeah i think i do trust that now i think that is like what getting back in your body is about too it's like starting to pay attention and not gaslight yourself.

56:55It's a great point because I think a lot of people listening and specifically women, like we're always kind of taught to question ourselves. Like we're not supposed to be confident and know what we want. It's like question yourself and don't be so confident. And you talking about being in your body and how your life is changing by starting to be more like cognizant of like where you are and who you are in your relationships. Like again, then having a beautiful relationship that you guys are building together, it makes it easier, but it still is going to show up and then it's about how you guys handle those moments that then if anything they get you even closer yeah like that moment like you just said we've never had something like that except for last Tuesday I'm just kidding you're like Tuesday um but those moments make it so much easier to be light and free and in your body when you feel that safe where you're like oh I don't even care about your email don't give me the password I'm too busy yeah um can we talk about intimacy because I think a lot of people when they think about relationships and kind of like how you described it, Glennon, sex for you, you were just like, oh, I thought it was something you did.

57:57Oils change. Boom. Bye. We're done. And I think a lot of people think about sex and intimacy is like the way to equate how good our relationship is, is how much we're having sex. Like if someone is craving more intimacy in their relationship currently, like what advice do you have for them listening and watching? I guess just even saying that is a good start. Yeah, I think that something that works for us is to like know what makes each other feel like that that intimacy connection is there because we've been together for 10 years ish is that right almost yeah we're almost like we're in our ninth ninth year oh my god um and we've gone through ups and downs of of not just like the actual act of like sex but like we've gone through ups and downs of feeling really connected and so in line and so on the same page.

58:54And then, you know, stuff happens, people die, diagnoses happen, and it forces you kind of away from like this homeostasis line in a way. And it's not my dream to be living at the high, high, high of the inloveness, because I don't think that that number one, chemically, it's just not sustainable. Like that happens for the first couple of years and you're just like infatuated with each other and you can't keep your hands off each other but then you fall into a sense of loving of complete partnership and intimacy and and you're kind of like here like we you know what I mean yeah I mean that was so scary for me you remember I was terrified because she had never been in love before and I had been in love before and so I know that when you fall off that love train you're like I want to go back there and so you find somebody new and then so that's what i did my whole life i just wanted to the love the love chemicals the love chemicals famous it's like same as the success yeah striving for success yes it's the same it's the whole conversation it's same as booze yes it's the same as the falling in love part they're all like these fake versions of the thing yes but they're easier to access because they give you the adrenaline yeah and then there's like these real versions of the thing, right?

1:00:16That are harder. It's like you're sitting around with your friends and you're like, is this boring? Or you're like with your wife on the couch year seven and you're like, is this boring? Because the drugs are gone. But I mean, I remember you saying, you telling me that it was going to change. Like when we were in the obsessive, just obliteration of early love and you saying, this is going to end. And I said to you, I feel like you're saying we're not going to love each other as much. And you said, I'm telling you we're going to have to love each other more because the drug of it is gone. And then you land.

1:00:50It's like the falling in love. And then you land and you're like two people again. And you're like, what? Yeah. We're just two people. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I think that's intimacy. The falling in love is not intimacy. It's the easiest part. Like that can happen to any fool. Yeah. Right? Full, the full in love. that's just something that happens to you but then you have to happen to each other which i think that's intimacy it's like it's not a we thing it's like here i am and you're like here i am and then the more intimate you can be with yourself i think it's our therapy it's our work we do individually that makes us able to connect deeply as two people yeah it's like it's like when when you're falling in love you're trying to enmesh you're trying to become what you are one.

1:01:38You believe that you are the ones that have it. Remember we used to walk around and be like, look at all these normal people. Yeah. And that have it forever, right? It's only you and this other person. It's me and Glennon and nobody else knows what we're talking about. We were insufferable. But then when you start landing in love, you become two individuals again that hopefully are along the exact same path. And, you know, like things happen where the path goes a little bit further away from that center line. But our goals in our life, at least mine, is to get as close to that center line as possible so that we're like, you see this?

1:02:17This is crazy. This is amazing. Like, okay, cool, cool. And we're headed in the right direction. And the work that we do, the therapy and even our podcast is like a therapeutic thing because we have to like do a lot of research and thinking and feeling and talking about really hard things. And it's such an important avenue for us to not only be intimate with each other, but to explore our own intimacy with ourself. And that deep desire for the two of us that we both have to want to know ourselves more. And then we get to have beginner's mind with each other. We get to be new people every day. And it's so fun and also exhausting at times, but fun for the most part.

1:03:00I can tell you too. It's just you're talking so much like the you're like, oh, wait, remember the other night that we were up late? Like, I think that it every time you hear people give advice, like communicate, it's like, shut up. But it actually when you start to really dissect what is communicating in a relationship look like, it is literally after the in love portion and you come down and it's reality. Are we compatible in what we want in life and so many people there's usually one person in the relationship that's kind of vying for the other person's attention be like do you like this and then the person's like no i don't know and then like okay and then they kind of mold to that person because the person that cares least in the relationship has all the power that's right and so you're caught it's like this uneven thing that when all of a sudden you find that person that feels like you're genuine equal yes and you are compatible doesn't mean you're not going to disagree on things but it's just this like one step forward each time and you're in lockstep and there's nothing more beautiful than having a partner like that.

1:04:03But it's rare to find. I feel like you can both now, like you've having been in previous relationships, me too. It's so rare to find. And that's why I want for all the women listening, like if you're not sure, if you don't have that feeling, it's probably that's your answer. It's not there. Because like what you guys are describing, yes, maybe you're not going to meet someone that stands up and gravitates in the air towards you. But that feeling of like, no, I want to do the hard work with this person that I feel like if it's missing, if it's not there, you kind of know it's not the right person because when it's right, you fucking know it's so right.

1:04:40And I think you know it's right because of how you feel. Like it's not even when sometimes, you know, that that moment of there she is looking at Abby like for so long, I thought that was about Abby. But I think that there she is was internal. Like I loved who I was in that moment. Like she brought something out of me, but I was in my body. I was weird. I was arms open. I'm like not making sense. I like who I am with Abby. I sometimes feel like the way that you know if a person's compatible for you is how you feel about you when you're with that person. It's not necessarily that person because so much of love, the way we've been taught, especially for women, is like we have to disappear or get small or mirror or become whatever that person wants us to be.

1:05:32So we don't even know who we are. So like there's a version of love that doesn't make you disappear but makes you expand. Up here. Up here. Yeah. In a way that that's what you fall in love with is like this version of me that I get to be on the earth because this person allows me to be in that space. no one like everyone watching this right now because i have so many people that write in every day and they're like is this the right person if that's it how do you feel when you're with this person and if you don't feel like your best version of yourself you probably have the answer okay wait i want to play a quick game yay because now that you said that you're getting to like 10 years um we need to play a little who's more likely to okay who is more likely to start a deep personal intimate emotional conversation at 11 p.m at night we've never been awake at 11 p.m yeah okay late 7 p.m so eight o 'clock p.m would be very very realistic 7 p.m that's a bonus of being sober you go to sleep early who do you think this is a tough one for us i think it would be me i think it would be me you i do too yeah thank you because at 6 p.m she starts to power down and there and you're like honey one thought i had she's like go to bed go to bed okay who's more likely to send a steamy text during a work meeting that's so good i feel sad i never send you steamy text yeah it would be me for sure it's you i'm gonna do it i'm gonna do it tomorrow do it tomorrow oh my god this is so fun thank you alex so good okay who's more likely to get a spontaneous tattoo for her.

1:07:07Really? Yeah, I love a tattoo. Yeah. Yeah. Believe it or not, I don't have a single one. You don't? No. And it's only because I was terrified as a child. And we were told that if you got a tattoo, you would be kicked out. That still lives in me. And I think the day after I would want something different. So that's what it's for. It's for regret. Regret is fun. Regret is proof you did something wild at some point. Like you were wild and crazy. it's yeah those are your spontaneous text honey okay who's more likely to get too competitive at board games i knew that one who's more likely to suggest skinny dipping on vacation oh for sure it would be me yeah yeah who's more likely to turn a small moment into a metaphor for life i mean that's my jam alex i only understand metaphors oh my god wait can you think of one that you've been like saying recently?

1:08:00Well, right now I'm thinking this really feels like a bubble of love. And I was going to talk to you about it in the car, but I'm glad we got to bring it up now. It does. Wait, tell me, what are you thinking? It just feels really good in here. Like you are wonderful. And this conversation has been great. And I don't know, it just feels really - It's good vibes. Bubble of love. Bubble of love. I love this bubble of love. Okay, love. Who's more likely to get on stage at karaoke? Well, we have a story around this. My wife is. look at your face Glennon we do um we do girls just want a weekend it's a weekend that Brandi Carlisle puts on a music festival weekend and because we're friends with Brandi she allows Glennon to go on stage and perform a song I performed Cher if I can turn back time very seriously Alex I was not joking okay it was not a joke it was not I wore a full wig and hat and fishnets and a g-string my kids were our kids were like um are you sure if i could turn yo and she doesn't sing no she's not a singer and got in front of 5 000 people and performed the song made me be a sailor my body alex in my body you were in your body yes you were in that g-string yes we what were you thinking when she was on stage abby well i went out there as like I was like um sailor well I was she got me the sailor outfit because it's part of the music video that Cher put out but nobody knows that so it just looked like Abby looked like I was it was bizarre it was bizarre but I was out there as like her comfort like support person because she's got to go do this thing and we go out there and Brandi is also on stage singing back back up to make sure that Glennon can get through the song well instantly we realize Glennon doesn't need any backup she's crushing it and now i'm just like loitering i'm like what am i doing up here this is i look ridiculous glennon is like all over the stage and sliding on her knees and the crowd is going wild i was like i was laughing with brandy in the back part of the stage and then all of a sudden glennon comes and jumps into my arms and i grab her my hands are on her ass total ass fishnet ass and she goes take me off stage i got scared i got scared like three minutes in i went back in my body was like oh this isn't a good idea and so i just said get me out of here get me out of here yeah but it was the best i'm so proud of you thank you that takes confidence and i can only imagine abby as you're saying that i'd be like that's my wife it was amazing and she had a little bit of like a vulnerability hangover that night and then we got to the airport the next morning because that was the day we were leaving and all of the concert goers were coming up to her like you were amazing that was the most it was amazing that's the best i'm not just saying that you got that feedback because i get what you mean when you're laying there you're like wait was i like being kind of cringe like did it was it okay like did i sound okay and then everyone's like babe you crushed alex i was in the fetal position in the bed in the hotel going did i humiliate was that the best moment of my life or the worst moment it was like you had fun yeah It was amazing.

1:11:14Okay. Who's more likely to sleep past noon on a weekend? I would sleep longer. Who's more likely to start a hobby and forget it two weeks later? Me. Okay. It's okay. It's okay. But you first have to buy all the gear for it. Yeah. Yes. Oh, I'm a gear person. Oh, I'm the same way. Like I will go and buy things and be like, I'm doing this. And then I'm like, oh. And then Matt loves to be like, remember when you said you were going to get into Pilates and I bought you a Pilates machine and you've used it two times? And I'm like, please, this is enough. He's like, remember when you tried tennis? And I was like, shut up.

1:11:43okay i'm gonna get back to it some point um who's more likely to suggest staying in instead of going out oh both of us okay love that same who's more likely to say i have a new idea for a book slash podcast slash project that's all we say that's all we talk about yeah i've had 12 ideas just during this conversation i can't wait to go download we're doing work we're working today ladies. We're putting in work. Okay. Who's more likely to give the other unsolicited advice? Oh, I recently learned that unsolicited advice is criticism and I should stop. So I go to Al-Anon now. I go to Al-Anon five times a week so I can stop giving advice.

1:12:24Do you feel the difference? Yes. Oh, that's good. Yep. For sure. I'll report back to my meeting. Yeah, no, it's great. You guys, I had the best time with you. I like don't want this to end. I think something that is like my favorite part of my job is when I get to sit down with people that I obviously like see on social media or I'm a fan of fan of and then getting to actually speak to you guys like we are in my living room and we're just talking about things that we clearly talk about in real life. It was such a pleasure to get to hang out with you guys because seeing your relationship up close and personal, it's so beautiful and inspiring.

1:13:01And I hope so many people take from this like the work you both have done from childhood all the things you guys have gone through to get to this point and then to make this beautiful marriage work and it is work but it's fun work and it's good work like i just thank you guys for opening up to me today because i know we got we got a little deep in moments but it was it was really fun and it was a pleasure so thank you love bubble we love you thank you i love you guys you guys are the best

1:13:33Thank you.