Alex Morgan: Soccer, Sexualization, & Suing US Soccer

33:42at that point in the middle of your career? It goes back to honestly, like, owning who we were in 2019. Like we won and we were like, this is us, take it or leave it. And I always wanted to be a mom. And honestly, like the confidence that I had growing through that year between the lawsuit, between winning the World Cup, scoring many goals, getting like the silver boot in the World Cup, I felt really good about myself. And after that, I was like, I've done everything I've wanted to do. I'm not done playing soccer, but I have been able to accomplish everything I've wanted to. Now it's my turn in life to do what I want to do.

34:29And so it was the right time for me. and that's all that matters and i think the difficulty of being someone that represents the country in these moments is a lot of people feel like they then should have a say on you and your life and all these things and meanwhile which we're going to get to you're like oh maybe if i was even being treated well but uh guys like let's let's calm down you all care about us which i i now being involved in um the league i'm like it's like we have to stop just pretending it's every four years but it's like for you guys it's like people caring about women's sports for the olympics or the world's cup and then it's like they act like they have a hold over your life but it's like this is my life 24 7 you guys are getting to see me in these big moments but i'm putting my body on the line throughout the whole year and like i want to do something for myself and that's okay.

35:27But it is crazy that people make you feel like, no, this should be a joint decision of the country. Put it on your Instagram story and let's all do a poll if Alex is allowed to have a kid or not. Like that's literally how crazy people are. They think that they deserve a say in your life. Yeah. And it is a really private thing to get pregnant and then to share your pregnancy, not only with your friends and family, but like with your teammates in the world. so it was a really scary moment like I was like going to the doctor's appointment like really secretively and this you know having conflicted emotions like I'm so excited but also like I can't have one person see me going into this doctor or else like it's gonna blow up on the internet or like I I don't know who I can tell without like sharing this really private information that I don't want shared.

36:21So just going through my club team and the NWSL Orlando at the time and the national team, it was really scary treading that wall also it supposed to be being one of the most happiest moments of my life too. Right. And you're navigating it in fear and secrecy a little bit. Oh, yeah. Which I know I'm not alone. I know a lot of women deal with that as well. Yes. When you have your child and you go back to playing, talk to me about navigating being a mother and also being a professional athlete. And how were you navigating those first few years? It was not easy. Let me rephrase that. It was very difficult because there was no rules.

37:17There was no standard for moms in the NWSL or even on the national team. We had to write, I had to draft up an agreement with the general manager at Orlando that my daughter could travel with me and a childcare provider, like a nanny, and also that they could come into team meals. like they push back on like coming into the meal room. I'm like, no, I need my daughter. Like she needs to be with me or like going in the locker room. It's like, no, my daughter's going to come with me into the locker room and she can go like to the suite or whatever when I'm ready for her to go. Or even like having a ticket to a suite, not like in the stands with fans.

38:00Like, no, I'm not having my one-year-old daughter like in the stands with fans asking for a photo of my one-year-old. That's weird. So it was just like, right, like it was writing all these rules that had never been written before. And I was like, Oh, my God, I've, I've seen players have kids before in soccer and on the national team, how did they do how did they do this with even less acts like resources and support than I do. So it was interesting because I was like being pulled in a million directions and I was trying to be a great mom and I was trying to be a great soccer player, but I was also now having to like write new rules and advocate for all moms in the future in soccer.

38:41And so it was just like a lot at once. So. Just a little bit. Just a little bit at once. You can tell like I'm like really passionate about this subject. Well, as you should be because it's like you when you started to live it again, Alex, I feel like there were so many moments in your career where it was kind of thrust upon you to like be the face of these moments. And you're not even sitting here being like, I didn't want to be. It definitely wasn't something you were asking for. It does show your inner strength that like in all of these moments, you were able to be like, I've never done this before.

39:14I have no one basically that can kind of like guide me unless one, the first conversation we had at the beginning of this is like your rise to fame and this like intense pressure that was put on you for your looks and your game and all that i guess you could have called mia but there's like one or two three women in the world that you could be calling to ask this then you're going through the mom thing realizing you are one of these star players who has a little bit more privilege than maybe some of the other women yeah but still it's like i didn't i read somewhere where you were like, I'm in the back of the plane with my daughter on my lap and we're going to like the Olympics or something like what happened with that?

39:52There's been many, many situations like that. But definitely my daughter was so I was I had just got traded to San Diego. I was so excited about playing playing for San Diego in the NWSL. And this is like three years ago. And my daughter was one, one and a half, I think. So a one and a half year old, you know, is running around. They're very active. They're, they're not an infant. Like they, they weigh like 25, 30 pounds, maybe more. And I got like on the bus and I got a ticket for my seat and it was like 27B. And I got one ticket and I was like, I have my daughter with me. They're like, yeah, well, she's under two.

40:39So she, she could sit on your lap. And I was like, I'm 27 B with, this is like three years ago with my one and a half year old on my lap. And we're going from San Diego to New York. Excuse me. I was like, and back to the privilege thing. I said, I'm sorry. I cannot go on this trip if you don't get a seat for my daughter. This is not happening. This is not. I will walk off this bus. And they got me a ticket for my daughter. And I feel fortunate to be in that situation, to be able to have said that and set then a standard across the league for now it being a child one and over having their own seat.

41:27I feel like a child should have their own seat regardless it doesn't matter if they're like two months old i agree you bring you bring the car seat and you put it in the seat so we can get off of the plane and go play our sport and go go run around without our legs going numb so it there was a lot of challenges to work through a lot of barriers um to break down but it's incredible like that you got again you speaking up in that moment now is going to change women's lives in the future in this league and I'm going to get there because I know now being involved there's so much change that is happening in the NWSL which is amazing it's amazing it's incredible but I do want to first get to equal pay okay girl so I realize I have like also a pretty young audience that also tunes in.

42:21So I want you to kind of explain this. So obviously, one of the most, most, most forever legendary things that you did in your entire career, we're talking about World Cups, and we're talking about Olympics, and we're talking about all the things, is you advocating for and achieving equal pay. And for my listeners who may not be as familiar, can you talk about what led you and your teammates to sue the U.S. Soccer Federation for equal pay? Yes, we sued our employer in 2019, three months before we went to the World Cup. So this started back in 2015. We won the World Cup first time in 16 years. All of a sudden had like sold out stadiums.

43:07We were seeing revenue. So we were generating revenue for U.S. soccer like never before. We were getting sponsors coming to U.S. soccer saying we want to work with the women. U.S. soccer doesn't do sponsors for only the women's or men's team. They bundle them together. U.S. soccer is like one umbrella. Sponsors come and they get everything. So we were seeing this. The books are open. U.S. Soccer Federation is like a company. You can see the taxes. is that, you know, you can see the returns at the end of the year. So you're like, okay, I know what you're making. I know what we're generating. This is an adding up.

43:47So 2016 comes around, we file, we file a motion with the EEOC, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. And it goes nowhere. Like it sits, it sits, three years go by. And we know that we are bringing money into U.S. soccer. However, we are getting paid, for example, like per game, $1 ,500 for a win, like zero for a tie, zero for a loss. The men, I'm throwing this out there, but I think it's almost accurate,$12 ,000 for a win. It was astronomically different. At the end of the year we were making, if you played in every single game, you're making maybe like 85, 90 ,000 men, if they were to play the same amount of games as us, win the same amount of times as us, like 400 plus thousand dollars.

44:45Like it was, it was so different. There was such a gap that we were like, and then we were seeing what we were generating, like the revenue we were generating for them. And we're like, this doesn't make sense in terms of what we're bringing in. But also, we're doing the same job for the same company as the men, but getting paid vastly different and getting treated vastly different. We're sitting in 27B and the men are in 2A. So we're like, this is not adding up at all. And like, don't get me started also on FIFA and how we had to also, and they've come a long way, but back in 2015, there was a lot of challenges also on that front.

45:30So we went to US soccer and we filed a lawsuit. We sued them. And it was every single, it was every single current player, except for one. Yeah. Everyone. And that was the only reason we actually got to where we are today in achieving equal pay back in 2022, plus back pay, plus millions of dollars of back pay, was because of us 25, 30 players getting on calls with the lawyers every week, doing depositions, doing multiple failed settlements in Chicago, in New York, like taking our own time to fly to New York to hear them bullshit us. time and time again when you guys decided to do this were you did you all deliberate beforehand like what are the risks and like was it okay so you guys were like the risk was like you could be cut the risk was like you might not have a future in soccer they're like the risks were like big i mean they were like the media can turn against you and you can lose your sponsorships You can like, which by the way, sponsorships were like doing like the work off of the field for a lot of us was in a lot of ways for me, especially it was like 90 to 95 % of my annual income.

47:00Like soccer was like five to 10 % of my annual income, but I spent like 90 to 95 % of my time on it. Talk to me about once this went public, because I know everyone was like, you guys, one of your biggest fears was the public, right? And I know that it was a little divided. Like, I think a lot of people publicly were in support, but then there were definitely people that were vocal being like, no, you guys are being greedy. Like, this is not you guys shouldn't be doing this. What do you remember feeling when you started to hear these negative reactions? I was really saddened, but I wasn't like surprised.

47:39I remember specifically going to the U.S. Soccer Annual Board because I was on the Athletes Council. and you get a chance to like speak at the end. If you want, there's a microphone, like a hot mic. And one of the board members from another board, it's like there's like 300 people in the room. He gets on the mic and he goes, our women's team is so disappointing. They disgust me. They don't deserve to be paid what they're asking for. They don't even deserve what they're getting now. He goes on and on for five minutes. And after you hear people in the room clapping, like at the U.S. Soccer Annual Board meeting, and us athletes were mortified, like embarrassed on his behalf, but also like, this is who's making the decisions in this room?

48:32Okay, we have a lot of work to do. And how fucking scary you're all sitting there. Sitting there. And people are just clapping. This is after we won back-to-back World Cups. I know and I'm sorry after like they're fully aware of the books too like well what's going on with the finances I was gonna say no shade but I guess this is shade like you guys were objectively so much fucking better than the men the men's team was sucking ass you guys were winning everything and I think everyone's probably like what is happening like how are they it's one thing if people are even trying in their fucked up brains to be like the men are getting paid more because they're they're doing better in their league or whatever the fuck it doesn't matter you guys are doing the same job and you're having insane income and the men are getting all of these profits and you guys are getting chump change like it made what that's what i thought that's yeah thank you because i we're on the same page here i think people with at least you know what u.s soccer said okay their main their main statement we had to submit court documents like basically saying like how basically saying why we deserve equal pay and u.s soccer saying why we didn't.

49:43Their main argument was that the man bears more responsibility because they, what was it? They bear more responsibility because they are inherently faster and stronger. Because it takes more strength and speed by a man. And so the responsibility is greater. So basically saying like women are inherently inferior. That's that we dragged them. They retracted that statement later. They're like, we're so fucking embarrassing. We're sorry. Jesus Christ. But that's what's so fucking scary is people genuinely like believe this. They had multiple eyes on that before they submitted that. And they thought that that was the right thing to say.

50:37Like, yeah, we believe this. men are superior because of their muscles like i'm sorry what while you're in the midst of this i can't like i'm like where do i even go like you know when you're really uncomfortable and you just laugh because you're just like this is i don't know what else to do with my face no literally like we're laughing and it's pathetic and it's so fucking sad though because it's like women's sports is such a good representation of how women are not equal in this fucking country yeah but hey we're getting there we are getting there just so you guys know as you're listening we're getting there because it actually is gonna get better i know we're in the trenches right now and we're like fuck this shit but we're getting there because it does get better um okay talk to me about though about the headspace i do think which is interesting to know as an athlete of like you're in this legal battle for six years but you're still having to play for the organization that you're suing.

51:36What was that mentally like showing up every day being like? A mindfuck for sure. Like it was like, hey, Alex, like, like you are coming to me. Can you do this interview? Can you do this feature ball? And I'm like thinking to myself, why would I do anything for you guys? But then I'm thinking to myself, well, if we come, if we do that, if we settle, if I win this lawsuit, then, And, you know, we are going to be besties again. And eventually I do want you to pay me more. So like, do I do I go the extra mile for you? Um, we had so many really heated conversations with the president of U.S. Soccer who had to step down because of very poor decisions that he made, very poor comments that he made.

52:21I mean, the amount of times I had to wake up at 2.15 a.m. on the West Coast to do a hit on TV to talk about the lawsuit. Countless. And this is like then you wake up at 2.15, you do the hair and makeup, you go on TV, you do like the six minute hit with Robin Roberts. And then you go home and you wash your makeup off and you go to training and then you're exhausted. And you're like, I just feel like I worked a full day. But, oh, yeah, I forgot I'm not getting paid enough at all for what I'm doing. Talk to me about when you guys win this lawsuit and, like, realizing that you had achieved equal pay.

53:07Where were you and what did it mean to you? It meant everything. So U.S. soccer hired Cindy Parlocone, who was a national team, a women's national team player, scored many goals. Very good player. She became U.S. soccer president. Also, that was a voluntary position. Like, you did not get paid to do that. So when she came in charge of that, we were like, okay, we got one on the inside. We got this. Still got to convince that board. But we got this. And when we settled and achieved equal pay and millions, over$20 million back pay, I was holding my daughter when we signed it. My daughter was three years old, two and a half, three years old.

53:54And it was a really special moment because it was, I mean, you got to think like over 500 hours of our own time put into something that like you never knew if it was going to ever happen. Like you didn't know how you were going to be seen as you didn't know if this was going to work out. You didn't know like what kind of effect this could possibly even have in sports. and the emotional toll that I can imagine it took on you. Also, you knowing like I'm not someone that's probably going to see the most benefits from this because I'm closer to being on my way out of this league. But knowing that you did this and you fought this fight because now it's going to impact so many women now to come to this league is incredible that you guys did this.

55:04I remember when I decided to get involved with the NWSL, I think that was one of my first conversations that I had with the current commissioner, Jessica Berman. I remember I sat with her in New York City and I had a meeting with her and I had like opportunities to put my hydration drink with like, you know, in certain areas. And I was like, I want soccer. But like, what are we doing for these women and how is this changing? And I will tell you, almost one of the single-handed reasons that I decided to sign that contract with the NWSL is because of that woman. She is the commissioner. The way that she's talking about, like, she's owning, like, I cannot believe what has happened in the past.

55:51And I come from the male sports side. And my goal in my literal life right now, and I see her sacrificing her time with her family and everything, as all the other athletes are doing, is like, I'm going to make change. and I know it's not going to happen overnight. And I remember she had told me, she's like, in my office, I have framed Burnett when Rapinoe literally tweeted and was like, fucking Burnett. Like, she's like, I look at that every single day. And I'm like, I am going to work my ass off to support and protect these women. And to me, that is also a product of you and all the women who stood there because it's like now every single time we chip away at this, it's not going to change overnight, but it's getting better.

56:32So as fucked up as all this was, thank you for all the work that you did because now all these women who are playing right now wouldn't have had the rights that they do. And I know they still are probably want to fight for more things, but you guys got the ball rolling in a way that is going to change generationally women's sports. Yeah, honestly, it's yeah, thank you. Just taking ownership is so important and like holding yourself accountable and knowing that like we all have a part to play. And also, we likely won't reap the benefits of what we're fighting for. But the hope is that our kids will like my hope is my daughter knows nothing other than equal.

57:18She knows nothing other than having as much access to a soccer field, to the best coaches, to the best opportunities, because I played some small part in it. I look at these young players coming into the NWSL, and I'm like, yeah, you have that confidence. Yeah, you walk in there proudly, and you ask for what you deserve. because in a lot of ways, like that's what we fought for, but we didn't have that opportunity. I mean, players first contracts, the first year of the NWSL that I played in aging myself, dating myself, um, with$6 ,000, not a month for the season,$6 ,000 to play in the NWSL for the season.

58:07Players are getting over$500 ,000 now to play. And maybe in three years, a million, And maybe in three more years, 5 million, who knows? It started with those players. It's crazy to think about. I also just couldn't help but think as you're saying that how many women listen to this show. And it's like this doesn't have to just be applicable to sports. I think sometimes when you as a woman want to try to create change, whether it's at your job or socially or whatever it be, Like it can feel really disorienting because you're essentially most of the time the only woman in the room. Like even as although we're talking about women's sports, you're like all of the people we're in the room with are these men that are making these decisions.

58:50Right. And so I think this is one of the most concrete, incredible examples of. Yes, you may not completely reap the benefits of the fight that you go towards to get more equality for women in your sector of wherever you are in life. but this is a perfect example your daughter now if she decides to go and play she is going to have a better life because of you and how fucking cool is that and hopefully in or out of sport yeah um let's talk about your retirement you said that you had an epiphany talking to your husband one night that this was what needed to happen over some red wine your teeth are stained you're like babe it's over.

59:32He's like, um, go brush your teeth. Okay. So you have some wine. What is this conversation like? It was just like, I'm ready. Like I'm, I'm ready to have more babies. I'm ready to hang up the boots. I'm ready to have my weekends free. And I'm, I'm just, I'm, I feel like I did anything and everything I could have ever dreamed of and beyond in soccer. There's like nothing left that I feel like I need to accomplish. What was the hardest part of making the decision? The hardest part was telling people that, yeah, it wasn't making the decision. Honestly, once I made the decision, it was like the biggest weight off of my shoulders.

1:00:25I just like came to training no one knew at this time you know this is March or April and I didn't retire till September I came to training like just like happy and like this is my I don't know my last first soccer game in 2025 you know 2020 what was it for what year are we in Jesus but it was it was just like a lightness that I had never that I hadn't had for years I think just like carrying not only the pressure that I had on myself, but also the weight of like being in a way like the face of the league and a way like carrying myself in a positive way all day, every day in front of cameras, whatever it may be.

1:01:09Like I, I just feel like it was, it was a lot. And I didn't know. I didn't know until I made the decision that then I was like, there's this lightness to me what is this um yeah i was gonna say like aren't you like isn't your body exhausted yeah exhausted you get older and you're like oh shit i have these 18 year old teammates and i cannot keep up it's time right you're like i'm i'm in pain like i gotta go like you deserve to relax you deserve thank you i think so too you do alex did you ask any one of your like former teammates for any advice on like how to approach announcing a retirement or did you just like let it rip on your own?

1:01:50I actually looked up a lot of retirement like announcements. I saw Abby's. I was a really I had a front row view of Pino's because hers was right before the World Cup in 23 and she was retiring at the end of the year. So I like saw the way a lot of people announce their retirement and did their official like video or whatever it may be. And I just was like, yeah, I want to just like speak directly to everyone. And I want to lay it all out there. And then surprise, I got pregnant. So retirement happened a little bit quicker. I know. I love that you're like, oh, by the way, also retiring and I'm pregnant.

1:02:30That was not the that was a that was a surprise for sure. Yep. I'm one of those. I was like, I won't get pregnant. I got pregnant. Oh, my God. What a nice thing to then look forward to you're like peace out and i have another one on the way extremely stressful for like two weeks i was like i was actually talking with my manager and i was like okay or they were like we have this great like run like runway to retirement and like your announcement and then you're gonna get your flowers and then this and then that and i'm thinking to myself like shit i gotta tell them i really gotta tell them that my time's coming oh my god um so yeah they It was supposed to be a call about figuring out the next three months.

1:03:12And I was like, no, I actually am coming up on three months pregnant and I need to retire like this weekend. Like I'm three months pregnant and I can't do it anymore. I can't hide it. I can't play. I can't do it. Your jersey is officially being retired. Congratulations. I mean, that's epic in a lot of ways. But like, how do you feel about it? So good. But I just never even thought that that was a possibility, I guess. You just I mean, you see male athletes get their jersey retired. But I don't know, as a female athlete, there goes a double standard again. You just don't like think that that will happen to me because I'm a female athlete.

1:03:56So it's it's incredible. It's it'll it's a proud moment for me. And now having my son and my daughter and be able to go out on the field and wave to everybody and have two kids and a family and just be really happy and at peace where I left the game. It's incredible. And now be an investor in the team that I'm getting my jersey retired from. Yeah. Talk to me about the decision to invest in San Diego. Well, you did your research as well on well and where to bring it, and I did mine as well. I gave everything to this league since the very start. I don't even know if there might be one or two more players currently playing that played in the league back in 2013 when it first started, when there was nothing, when there were no showers after a game in a locker room.

1:04:55um you're like or even a locker don't forget it yeah don't forget it uh but i'm really proud of where the league has come and i'm proud of what the small part small or maybe not i don't know of the part i partook in that in creating a league that is sustainable that um that can create stars global stars, that is viewed over multiple platforms weekly. That also wasn't the case in 2013. Couldn't barely get a tweet back then. So I'm just, yeah, I wanted to be able to invest back in the league at the team level and to be in San Diego and raise my kids there and have them have also like some ownership over an affiliation with the team more than just like mom played there.

1:05:51We go to the games now. My daughter was like jumping up and down with her posters. She's waving at all of the players, like trying to get their, trying to get their attention, them like waving back to her. It's, it's so great. It's so cool to hear you talk about, you know, getting invested now in the league in a different way than being a player, but basically being like part of the ownership. And I would just like want to say because I this year obviously have gone to more NWSL games now with my partnership with them and like to women listening. I think when you're in high school, when you're in college and when you're in your 20s, 30s and so on, like I think a lot of times, especially with social media, we feel like where is my social life and where can I meet people and where can I get out and actually be in physical with other women that are like-minded.

1:06:41And now every single NWSL game that I've gone to, I, number one, have met actually some of my heroes. Like when I met Brandi Chastain the other month, I was like, okay, well, young Alex actually is like alive inside right now and is thriving and is crying. And so if you were ever a soccer fan, there's always former players that you know their names and you can run into and it's really cool. But then also the current players are so incredible and their personalities you see online, which is fun to be able to follow them and then go and see them in real life. But I would say also for people that maybe aren't as sports oriented, the biggest draw was people go and just go to have a nice time and meet people.

1:07:23And it's a very welcoming environment. It is. But also really fun. It is really fun. And I think, again, I know women, sometimes sports can be intimidating if you haven't gotten into sports. And I'm telling you, the easiest way into sports is through women's sports. And the NWSL, we just have so many cool things going on and like giving away jerseys. And I know when we do unwell pop-ups, like it's like fun activations that I don't know. I just I hope that people look and invest more in women's sports because not only are you investing in the players and just women and equality in general, but you're also investing in yourself because you're going to meet women and you're going to make friends in your city or wherever you live.

1:08:02So don't overlook it. Get to these games. It's very fun. I had a great time. Extremely fun. I mean, look at even all the owners across the board. Like, I'm sorry, Natalie Portman. No, like, it's so sexy. Yes, ma 'am. I'm like, yes, Natalie. Like, it's fun. It's really fun. It's cool to see everyone investing. And I appreciate you, though, Alex, because you have paved the way, like you said, since there were literally no showers. And now it's getting sexier. But then you've been there since the non-sexy days. um alex i can't thank you enough for coming i think like the conversation we had for women especially right now is like timely passports of just like everything that's going on in the world i think women need conversations like this to feel like they have something to look forward to and i will be honest i think it's like kind of rare that you get to sit down with a woman that can actually like roll out her portfolio and be like this is what i advocated for and this is literally what came of it so to sit with you and be able to hopefully one i'm sure there's a lot of people learning about this story that maybe it didn't hit their news cycle when it all went down.

1:09:05I'm happy they're going to learn about it. And hopefully this inspires other women to be like, okay, wait, maybe like I am way stronger. And if I get some of my women together, we can actually change some shit around us. And if we did that today, we did our jobs, Alex. We don't need to juggle, honey. Okay. We don't need to pick up a soccer ball anymore. We can just talk about it and we can make change happen. That's right. Well, thank you for having me on. You are so badass and I love listening and watching you um you've built a fucking empire so congrats so have you oh my god done you're amazing