Anna Kendrick: Pitch Perfect, Twilight & Relationships

0:02What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with call her daddy. Anna Kendrick, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Hi! I'm so happy we're doing this. Me too. We've never met. Wait, is it tacky? Should I get rid of my phone? You can put it on silent. Yeah, no, I think it's totally on whatever. But no, I'll just get it on. Okay, okay, okay. Sorry. Just in case you get like an important call. No. Who would be calling you? No one. No one. That's fine. Are you a big texter? Oh, yeah. I'm always like, if you need to get a hold of me, like, you're going to have to text me. If you want an email back, you're going to have to wait like two weeks.

0:39You might as well send me a postcard in the mail. I'm so bad on my email. Are you one of those people that has like a thousand plus emails or are you like deleting? I think it was, you know that, okay, so you know that this is not interesting, but you know that period between Christmas and New Year's where you're like, where are we? And like time has no meaning. I was like, I'm going to clean out my email inbox because I did have one of those. Because it was like, well, what else are we doing? Right. Right. Right. And I am one of those people. And I hate that about me. It's okay. That I'm one of those people that has like two, I have the same thing.

1:11And if anyone calls me, I immediately don't answer. Well, I'm like, did someone die? This is bad news. This is terrible news. I don't like confrontation. No, I don't, I don't like communication people. I don't know. No, that's not true. Mostly. But yeah, no, yeah. You have to text me. Okay. Obviously like being an actress now, like obviously director, but like, what is your like day off? Like, what are you up to when you're not working? um I'm trying to get mint to grow in my garden I'm trying to I'm trying to really like be a homemaker not a homemaker that's not what I mean I mean I'm trying to like do something physical and tangible that I can go like wow I and I grew this mint and now I'm putting it in a cocktail because that's as close as I'm ever going to get to cooking and I don't know there's something about like devoting your entire life to this very weird thing of like pretending to be another person and you know like crying on cue in front of a room full of people you met three days ago and whatever that you're like I don't make anything physical you know what I mean like so I I feel like I'm always trying to find like I should really take up knitting or something like I just want to like make something that I can hold and go like I made this okay to give you a little bit more credit you are making something that I mean like I mean it's not like it's not real but there is just something like fleeting about it or I don't know are you having an existential crisis right now constantly this whole episode is us just trying to figure out like what is the meaning of being an actor and life no but I get what you're saying you're like I want something tangible aka mint it's a little odd that mint is the one thing in your garden it goes in a lot of cocktails What can you are you making good cocktails?

2:57I'm trying yeah I went yeah when I moved I was like I want to be able to like have people over and be able to and be able to offer them a refreshment but like I'm never gonna cook and that's never gonna happen. Okay pretend I come over what are you making me for a drink? Um well do you have like a specific I like tequila and vodka so I'm kind of like I can go either way I like a Moscow mule I like a margarita. Moscow mules are super super easy so we love that okay um but uh there's like a watermelon vodka cocktail that I like um I also feel like people tend to come over and say that they drink anything but gin but gin makes great cocktails like drinking gin straight is for crazy people I don't know what that's about but um but it makes really great um like cocktails especially if you want to serve something up and also if you like want to commit to doing an egg white foam it gets it's really easy and people are like absolutely blown away that you've created i'm blown away already we an egg white foam yeah the key is doing a dry shake in your shaker with the egg white um before you add ice and then it will really and then you add all the other ingredients and then add ice and then it will actually like stay foamy and you know just put a little like sprig of lavender or something on top and like people are like oh my god how did you do this me i'm the dumb bitch that's like well then Well, then that's what I would make for you.

4:21So that you would find me impressive. Yeah. Okay, that's good to know. What is one thing you can't leave the house without? Oh, God. Probably chapstick. Like, I'm one of those people that I have, like, a drawer full of chapsticks. And, yeah. Same. Yeah. And I like all the different flavors. Oh, yeah. What's your go-to? I really like the Burt's Bees. There's, like, a pomegranate one. Are you fucking with me? What? No, you're fucking with me. No. What? People are laughing. What's happening? No, you fucking talk to someone. Are you doing a bit? On my life. On my dad's soul. No, absolutely. Wait, what is happening?

4:57Anna. You are not about to do that to me right now. You don't understand. That's sick. No, you don't get it. I might have it in my fanny pack. I'm not joking. You brought a fanny pack. You know what? I'm doing a lot right now. Don't make fun of my fanny pack. Hold on. First of all. That's it. Now I feel like you're fucking with me. That's crazy Okay I have a bowl I feel like you just I feel like you're Like the mentalist Like you're Criss Angel And you're like You mean this pomegranate Whichever one you said You're like road lipstick I'm like boom Because I also like The sweet violet But I was like Well that's not really I guess that's a tinted lip balm I don't know That's something else So I was like pomegranate I like the pomegranate too Because it gives you that A little bit of a tint The tiniest The tiniest tint Yeah I What's happening We And I'm not kidding you I thought you were doing a bit No Where you were like fucking with me.

5:48Wait, have you like talked? Am I an idiot? Have you like? No, no. Everyone that like really, really knows me. Like, you know the Arthur meme where he's like got the fifth? Yeah. I always have this. And anywhere you look, like any interview I'm doing, I have it somewhere in my body. And I have an entire bowl in my house and every single sweatpants. You have a bowl? I have a bowl in my house of all the pomegranate next to my bathroom sink. And I just pick one up every day and I open a new one and I use it until I lose it. And then I go back. I love it. This is weird. This is weird. I don't like it.

6:16Creepy. It's really creepy, but I think the reason I love chapstick so much is because I have this feeling. It's like the ick of myself is if I don't have my lips somewhat moisturized. I feel like that goes and is almost contingent with having bad breath. I feel like when you see someone with chapped lips, you're like, they must have bad breath. Oh, yeah. I don't know. No, I think that, yeah, I haven't thought about it, but subconsciously, yeah. You're like, I'm just going to lean away. Okay, so you're a chapstick girl. Yeah. Good to know, so you probably have good breath. um haven't gotten close enough to you today but we'll see later um what is the most high maintenance thing about you um probably my hair um I because I have I'm like a secret curly what I'm like a secret like like like Keri Russell and Felicity level curly you have gorgeous hair well you know it's not really what my hair looks like um uh yeah and I I've been like I haven't Like I, I wore, I started, I was on like a natural, like, you know, curly hair, um, journey.

7:20Like I let my therapist see me with my like real hair. Oh, that's big steps. Um, and like, like two of my best friends in my house have like come over and I'm like, I should let you know that I have let my hair dry naturally and I'm in a very vulnerable place. Cause it, I just, it was one of those things that I always felt like, um, messy because I think like when I really started to be like oh I need to like start learning how to like blow out my hair and whatever was when like pin straight hair was it um it was when like tiny butts and super straight hair was the the height of female attractiveness um so I just felt like yeah I don't know almost like the chapped lips things where I was just constantly like doing that you know just trying to um uh like make my hair be like flat um and when uh it would get like frizzy if I would go to a concert or whatever I would just be like freaking out about it like humiliated but you're like I have to leave I have to leave the concert and I was thinking about like um like all the fucking energy and time that I think we all spend without even thinking about it about like okay well okay if I wash my hair at this time and then how long is it gonna take to do my blowout and if I shave my legs on this day I'll have stubble for that well but like and just it's always just running in the background it's exact it's exhausting it's so exhausting and it's so dumb because we notice so much more about ourselves like I bet if you had your curly hair here I'd be like oh I love your curly hair we what did your therapist say to you when did you do like a big reveal like I'm gonna I'm gonna show you now yeah was it on zoom or in person it was on zoom oh um and I think it I think it was like I I was still like this is so boring but I I was still like self-conscious about it so I pulled back like you know I did like a half up half down thing and so she was sort of like oh where are you going like that it was you know that it was like it just looked different because I usually just like wear it in like a bun and a headband right um so I think she thought that I was like going somewhere so I was like well that's that's encouraging she wasn't like what happened um but yeah I'm still like you're dealing with it I'm still on a journey well you know what we're gonna support you on that journey your hair looks amazing today but I bet it would also look amazing if it was curly okay anyways um you've been making movies for two decades what do you think you would be doing if you hadn't pursued acting oh god I I god help me I don't know what I I really don't I mean uh I feel like obviously I didn't get into show business because I hate attention so there's that piece um like I'll when people ask me that question I feel like I'll usually just say like oh I'd have a bakery or something but like I don't know I would be so screwed like I actually remember when um when I was 17 18 whatever I whenever I like moved uh to LA um I was really really jealous of all my friends that were going to college number one because I felt really insecure about not going college.

10:20I have a whole, you know, complex about it. But I was also, you know, on the phone, like hearing about this exciting new chapter that was sort of laid out for them and, you know, going to classes and joining a sorority and, you know, having this like immediate community. And I was in L.A. I was like 17 or 18. It's really hard to make friends in L.A. because of like the way the city is laid out, but especially when you don't have a fake ID. And even if I did, I looked about 12, so that wasn't going to work anyway. And I was just like absolutely terrified and really wondering if I was like making a huge mistake.

11:03And then the weirdest thing was that when everybody entered their sophomore year, I was, I was still like just, you know, trying to get in the door and all that. But I then noticed that when I would get on the phone with friends of mine who were in college, they were suddenly all of them, sophomore year, having a total crisis because freshman year was like, this is so exciting. And there's this new chapter and like my whole life is ahead of me and I'm making these friends. And sophomore year, it felt like, okay, I'm back with the same people and that's great. And I'm picking my classes for this year and that's great.

11:42Um, but what do I want to do with my life? Like there's no longer just the excitement of like, Oh my God, frat parties and you know, the college experience. It's like, Oh, I have to figure out what I want. And so even though the thing that I wanted felt like a total pipe dream and like, what am I doing? This is a disaster. It's so hard to carve out a space for yourself in this industry but on the other side of it holy shit I did not think like what a blessing to just know what I want and I was like watching all my friends go oh my god I don't know what to what I want what to do it's so interesting like because I I went to college and I remember from a young age I like knew I wanted to be in Hollywood like I knew I wanted to create I knew I wanted to do something in this industry but my mom kept just being like no you have to do school you have to do school and then you can do it later and I resented that so much for a while but hearing like the difference like again everyone wants what they don't have of like being in college wishing by sophomore year I was like get me the fuck out of here I know exactly what I want to do but you being like watching all the kids in college and you being like that was a big insecurity of mine like why was it an insecurity though because you were like I don't have an education technically of totally interesting so I think my family really values like traditional education, you know, for good reasons, bad reasons, whatever.

13:12And so I was like the first person to not go to college. And my dad was a teacher and everything. So it was like very black sheep behavior to not go to college. Were they okay with you not going to college? Yeah. I mean, I think they knew I was going to do what I wanted to do. But I think there was always that sense of like well if things maybe don't work out that first year it's not too late to just you know so I think that was always like something that they had in mind but um I don't think they were thrilled which is understandable um but yeah I then like just worried about like oh my god I didn't I didn't go to college you know I don't know it's like I get it I think it's like in a great way I do think like the concept of education now is becoming a little bit more lenient where people are like you don't need to go to college to be xyz completely and it's interesting because you were right on the right path but because of like societal standards of like if you're smart you go to college it probably felt so disorienting when you're watching all these people do like the natural next step really you just skipped a big step and then you got ahead on your career but it doesn't mean you can't still feel insecure about it of like in conversation having to be like oh I didn't go to college like I get that especially if your family was like go school go school and your dad being a teacher totally and I think now that I'm like older it's less of a thing but like early 20s you know that's like part of the conversation is like oh where'd you go to college yes I didn't like how oh my god I have to say I didn't and by that at that point like you know like 21 22 I didn't really have much to show for it yet you know like then some things happened and you know it was less of an issue but yeah you're like oh I didn't go to college because I wanted to become an actor and it's like how's that going well you know I think I gotta someone's I'm hearing my phone ring so yeah right they're like what are you in you're like be back soon gotta go I get that um talking about your family though you were raised in Maine right born and raised in Maine what were you like as a kid I think I was really um like hyper vigilant like I was really in everybody's business a little bit.

15:25But I think that I was even thinking like a couple weeks ago about how I do, one of my many toxic traits is I do kind of walk around with like a little bit of a, all right, who's trying to fuck me over? You know? And I was like, I don't know, there's a chance that it's like, oh, you're spelling bedtime? You think I don't know what's happening here. You know, like just, I don't know, just being real aggressive about like how I wanted things done and like very opinionated. But I don't, I can't really tell if that comes from childhood or from like working in an industry where I'm sure you've experienced.

16:10It's like you agree to certain things and then it's like, oh, and can we also do this thing that would be really humiliating for you and not like pay you any extra money or check with you in advance? and ask you in front of a group of people. So if you say no, you'll look like a bitch. You know, so I'm just always like, all right, who in this room is trying to fuck me over? That's so interesting that you're like, did that happen when I was young? Or is it just like something I can't not remember? Because you started in the industry at what, like 10 you started really getting into it? Yeah, I started kind of auditioning for things when I was 10 and I booked my first gig when I was 12.

16:47um so but I mean I wasn't auditioning all the time because I lived in Maine and so either one of my parents had to drive me to New York City for like a 15 minute audition and they were like well sweetie we love you but Jesus um so eventually um my brother and I would take a Greyhound bus from Maine to New York and that's one of the situations where uh we were in that I auditioned for this show that I ended up getting and we were in New York and they asked me um are you cool to like stay for a call back tomorrow and I was always just told like we'll just say just say yes you'll figure it out later so I was like absolutely I will see you tomorrow no problem and my brother and I like then are just like okay we need to find a hotel in New York City Anna, what are you, 11?

17:41I'm 12. He's 13 or 14. And so we found a hotel, and my parents called the hotel and faxed a credit card and told them, like, yes, yes, we'll be along shortly. And they're in Maine. And so I, like, washed my underwear in the sink and then just, like, put on this. I mean, luckily, there is, like, a thing where if you get a callback, it's kind of conventional wisdom that you should wear the same thing. so that didn't seem like I was the gross kid with one pair of clothes same underwear um but uh so then the next day the same thing happened and again it was like no problem I will see you again in the morning and had to do it again um and then uh they oh that's right they uh they did ask me because I was wearing combat boots and they were like can you because the part was for like a little rich girl okay so they were like could you like wear something like you know we just love to see you in in more of a kind of sunday best outfit and um and and specifically someone mentioned my shoes so i was wearing this like ratty cardigan and like ripped jeans and these like combat boots but i was like ah the solution will be to go to the nearest palos and find like white church strappy sandals and so like with like the last 20 dollars that we had I like bought this pair of sandals like dress sandals and wore those with my ratty cardigan and jeans and uh and then like wandered in and I think they were just like oh for fuck's sake yeah fine whatever great um and then we were on a Greyhound bus home and we had this phone for emergencies and that rang and it was like hey you're gonna be on Broadway I'm like trying to picture 12 year old me walking around in New York City with my brother who's two years older than me I'm like how the hell were you not even scared I think that we just thought it was like such an adventure and I think we also like wanted to be like cool New York City kids so fucking bad right that we were just like yeah This is so normal.

19:52I can't remember if we were like low-key freaking out or not. But we, I know that, I mean, even when I went there at 17, I did this show at New York City Opera. And I remember like riding the subway to work and seeing like, oh my God, you know, you see those gorgeous girls who are like going to American ballet. Yes. And being like, and like looking at them and being like, we're really doing it. Oh my God. I'm in New York and I'm going to work and I'm going to work on the subway. and it's like not a big deal at all which if you're thinking about it like that it's a huge fucking deal to you I was I had no chill um but that was but that's sweet yeah okay all of this is happening I know that you were nominated for a Tony Award when you were just 12 so it came from that yeah yeah yeah okay what did kids in school think it's weird again like I don't know if you've experienced something like this but there were several moments where it felt like if I mentioned anything to the kids at school they don't get me wrong understandably sort of thought I was like talking about something else like like it like in the same way that if someone in my school in like middle school or high school had been like oh yeah I'm going to a Olympic trials I would be like so is there some kind of like local like oh it's the Olympics you know what I mean like I would just be like no you're not like cause that just doesn't make sense cause we're from Maine like what are you talking about I remember having like a really little indie film in the Sundance Film Festival when I was 16 17 and going to Sundance and I remember one of my close friends one of my like best friends called me and was like that's so weird there's something on um on the news about I think it was I could be getting this mixed up but I think it was like the year that Britney Spears and like Fred Durst went to Sundance together there's something I'm maybe I'm maybe I'm hallucinating it was some other story I don't know um but she called me and she was like yeah they're at like the Sundance Film Festival and isn't that so weird because you were just saying that you're doing something called Sundance but it's like happening at the same time and I was like I'm at Sundance I'm at the Sundance I'm at the Sundance film that's why I was so fucking excited about right you're like I'm here with Britney Spears yes and and like she was like a close friend so I think like there's an an understandable thing that happens where you're just like yes not you they just didn't get it here they didn't get it so you and you didn't talk about it over the top Lee where like people would even have a concept of it no no I mean even I think there was a hope a luckily very brief window where uh it was kind of like a teasing situation so it was like I knew better than to be like running my mouth about it too much because people would make fun of you yeah isn't that so weird meanwhile it's like everyone wants to be a movie star I don't know I think just drawing any attention to yourself in middle like particularly this was like in middle school like right after I did the the Broadway show it's like you just want to disappear like I think people talk about high school as being cutthroat middle school oh was so much scarier to me it was so horrible I completely agree high school's actually like I started to get my shit together middle school I was terrified yeah I remember feeling like just like trying to be like a moving pile of laundry you know just wearing like the biggest clothes and just trying so fucking hard not to draw any attention to yourself yes so you obviously start to become so successful like was your family like oh this is normal you know I found some success and then I think this is pretty typical for for um entertainment stuff that like the money really follows like several years later there's that period where you're like okay I'm like low key a little famous but I am so fucking broke it would make you tear up how broke I am um so you're kind of trying to fake it till you make it um but like I had brought my family to the Oscars and you know there was a really interesting moment a few years later when I like bought my first place and I had them at my place and it was like you could feel the energy particularly for my mom mom and dad of like, oh, okay, okay, okay.

24:24And it wasn't a mansion, but it was just like, oh, you're going to be okay. Because they were obviously like very proud. And, but there's things with like awards and reviews where that's great, but it's still really abstract. Yeah. And to just see something solid where it was like, okay, our crazy, you know, daughter who didn't go to college, like has managed to buy a home. You know, it was like I could feel not so much like pride, but that they were actually like, oh, you made it. OK, OK, OK. Yeah. It all worked out. Like we don't have to worry about now her like going back to college and trying to figure out something else.

25:02Completely. She's not going to move in with us and like drain us dry. Yeah. Love. You've been in so many great movies. I want to talk to you about a few of them today. We got to start with Pitch Perfect, obviously.

25:29We got to start with Pitch Perfect, obviously. What was that audition process like? Well, you know, I think that the most interesting piece or the piece that has certainly followed me around is when I auditioned, they needed you to just like prove that you could sing. and I was like well I know how to do this thing there's a cup and there's this song and I could do that so it was just because I was like well where else am I gonna do it because I was like lame enough and dorky enough to have bothered like learning this thing and so I did it for my audition and they were like we should put that in the movie and originally in the script like Becca my character's audition song was I'm a little teacup which I I keep meaning to ask the writer Kay Cannon like was that meant to be like funny how like how would that have worked how how was I supposed to play that I don't I don't know what I was supposed to do would you have gone was I supposed to like do like a Christina Aguilera version of I'm a little teacup or was it supposed to be like like uh like oh I like resent that I have to do this and you know but I sound fine so how do you think you would have done it I guess like that I mean I would have been relying on somebody to tell me like what the vibe was supposed to be right but luckily I didn't have to figure that out um so they they were like well let's do that for for Becca's audition and I was like great I'm making use of a useless skill and then um then people when they saw the movie like would ask about it and stuff and so then the studio was like we should release this as a single And I was like, what are you fucking stupid?

27:08That's so embarrassing. I'm so embarrassed for us. So they had me like go into the studio for like 20 minutes, a hit that was made in 20 minutes, and just like sing the rest of the song. And I was like in there with a stool and a cup doing the cup in this weird studio. And then they were like, what if we did a music video? And again, I was like, are we what's going on? This is so you guys. I'm so embarrassed for you. Like, I just was like, there's no way anybody would care about this. Like I, whatever. Um, and so we like make this music video and then it like, which is by the way, why am I saying this phrase?

27:51Why is this phrase coming out of my mouth? It started climbing the charts. Like, why is this a part of my story and my life? Like I was just like, what's ha, What is fucking happening? This is so out of the realm of anything that's supposed to be happening. And I always thought, like, because I was in the middle of making this, like, indie film. And I'd be getting, like, texts from people going, like, it just, like, got into the top ten of, like, Billboard's top 100. And I was, like, in the basement of some church, like, shooting this tiny little indie film. Meanwhile, I think it was, like, I think it was, speaking of the times.

28:29Miley Cyrus and Macklemore was like in also in the top 10 and so I always just think like they must have been like what the fuck is this shit literally like who is this girl what is this how dare you I'm out here like busting my ass on good morning America putting on a live performance and this like freak show whatever this fucking is is in the top 10 how dare I what on earth Anna I would hate me I would hate me Did you ever learn to be like Damn that shit's good They did send me a platinum record And that was pretty cool That was pretty cool Bye bitch That's literally perfect That was pretty cool You're like I guess it was kind of good I'm like guess what I got my platinum record though That's insane That you're like This is so fucking embarrassing you guys And meanwhile it's like The entire world learned this shit I remember trying to learn it Anna Okay No you did not Oh I tried Of course I did Everyone Oh I tried your face I couldn't really do it you shut your face you fucking invented it it's so crazy that you brought that to the movie and they were like yes um okay I just realized also while you were talking which is fun is I have had on you Brittany Snow Adam Devine and I have had on Rebel oh my god I have almost had like the entire cast yeah you're like collecting all the Pokemon yeah yeah I'm kind of having a good time um how would you describe your guys friendship on that cast um Honestly, I use this word in the truest sense of like we are a family, like truly in the sense of like we didn't choose each other.

30:03Like we didn't ask to be in each other's lives in this way. And we're so bonded. And it does feel there's something really, not to be lame, there's something really magic about it. Because so often like you'll do a big job and there'll be like one or two people maybe that you keep in touch with. and they're the people that are like the most similar to you. And we're all really, really different. And after like three movies, you're like, I think this is like a not getting rid of each other kind of situation. I think the entire world is happy. It's a not getting rid of each other situation. And also I think that I'm very avoidant.

30:44So like actually like cracking that shell and like being in my life, like it takes some persistence. That's a big deal. So like Brittany's always joking that her, she's like, well, your phone is all, all white or whatever the, you know, the blue text. Yeah. You get it. You get it. Cause she's like always texting me and just being like, I know you're not going to reply, but you know, I think that I'm kind of like certainly the curmudgeon of the group, but it is like almost like everybody has a role and you know, like, you know, Brittany kind of like brings the party and I um bring the grumpiness I guess I don't know um but I am like it's really interesting because even the girls that are not like one of the closest girls like when they're going through something I get the call and it's and it's it makes me feel so good um because I do feel like that's kind of my role in the group is like if if you're in jail like my shoes are on.

31:48We're, I'm going to, we're getting you out tonight. I don't know how, but we're going to figure it out. Whereas like, if you need help with like party invitations, like I'm going to freeze up and be like, I don't, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what to do. I don't know. I have to leave the room right now. Call Brittany. Yeah. Call Brittany. Please call Brittany. It's so fun to know that you and Brittany snow are so close because it, I don't know, it like set something right in the world. Like I like that you guys are friends. I think it also is nice because obviously as like consumers, we know that sometimes on movie sets, like people don't get along and there's something oddly satisfying about how amazing those movies are and knowing you guys are so close like it's just a fun thing for fans it makes me really happy I saw some of the girls from the movie the original The Craft having dinner once and I was like you guys are friends of real life like it makes you happy oh my god it made me so fucking happy so I do I would be like what oh I wouldn't think anyone would like care but I but seeing the the craft girls I was like this is so beautiful so now you get so much to me so now when people are crying when they see you guys out together you get it totally are we getting a fourth one oh I have no idea I'm always like I'm always like rebel is kind of like the steam train of the group like she's always like I think we should do it and I'm like well then great we we should I agree I'm just here for I'll just be back up I guess I we need it I would love that because like we're all so um busy and I'm so happy that everybody's so like busy and successful and doing so much that actually getting like whatever you know the 10 of us in a room is like impossible so it's usually like maybe six of us at a time you know trying to like uh have a little reunion so it does feel like the thing that would actually get us all in a room again is like the movies so that's that's my best reason I will watch so let us know um Twilight can you believe Can you believe?

33:44I mean, what? Okay, so someone was just asking me about, like, a while ago, I had, you know, done a silly funny tweet where I just said, like, holy shit, I just remembered I was in Twilight. And people were like, but you didn't, like, forget, you didn't forget that you were in Twilight. And the answer is truly, truly yes and no. Because obviously, obviously, I didn't forget the experience of making the movies. I didn't, you know. but those movies like especially at the time took on such a life of their own and like they were such a kind of like for for better or for worse like a kind of touchstone like like such a reference that you know everybody would talk about like trying to find the next twilight or whatever and I would find myself in like business conversations talking about oh yeah I've heard that that there's a book series that just got optioned you know that maybe want to try and make it the next Twilight and then I would be like oh my god I'm in oh my god I'm in the movie oh my god because I was also so on the uh just on the outside had a front row seat but was just on the outside of the madness of it and I was really like lucky to not be dealing with the the eye of the storm really you know um I think that like a lot of the folks that were in the movie even in the later movies where they are playing like as long as you were a supernatural character if you had one line you like couldn't leave your hotel room people were crazy and and you know people were criticizing like oh but she has green eyes in the book or whatever and I just didn't have to deal with any of that so so on the it's almost feels like I didn't really have to run the gauntlet that some of the other I mean most of the other people did I just had to like show up and say dumb funny shit and just be like what are you guys talking about because they're fucking acting weird okay everybody's really serious bye like that was the that was the gig it was awesome Jessica oh my fucking god Jessica being like what's so great about Bella like I don't get it like what's going on with Bella which is also crazy because when I auditioned for that I was like yeah I think in the book she's like the blonde athletic volleyball captain popular girl so I was like well great I'm not getting this job and the goal then becomes like well I hope I just like make an impression on the casting director and the director so maybe they'll remember me for something else right and so I was like well I'm just gonna like try to be like weird and funny because I don't know and then they were like oh great yeah let's do that so there I am with like my with my headband because like in that humid weather they didn't know what to do with my hair full circle they were like it just keeps getting bigger so so it was always like in a headband or pulled back like really tight um and you know in my like ratty little costume like you know five inches shorter than Kristen going like I don't even get what the point is meanwhile she's so stunning in real like you're like oh my god I'm staring into the eyes of like a Siberian husky she's so gorgeous like I mean she's gorgeous on screen but like in person have you met her in person no there's a quality let me tell you really oh my god it's breathtaking and she's obviously very beautiful and sometimes you meet certain people and you're like what how dare you right why are you why are you doing this to me oh my god so you know the audacity of me to be like i don't see i don't see it i don't get it right you're like right right right were you ever like i'm being annoying like or you're like it's fine it's my role yeah i guess it was like i'm being annoying which means like you're doing I'm doing what I'm supposed to be you're doing your job I'm obsessed with you being like they trying to put my hair down and I'm like I don't know what to do I know it all comes real circle circle um okay next movie Alice Darling this is like obviously a bigger shift and is a basically is about a woman in an emotionally abusive relationship when you're taking on a more intense role like do you hesitate in those moments or do you enjoy those type of moments that are a little bit darker?

37:53It was, oh gosh, that's weird. I'm about to use a phrase that I've been using in reference to directing. So, but it, it kind of makes sense because it's a similar thing where it was like pushing myself off of a cliff and not giving myself the time to go, is this a good choice? Because it was like, it was really scary and personal and god I'm just remembering like I remember I didn't tell I haven't thought about this in a while I didn't tell anybody in my life not my like well this was also kind of COVID-y so I wasn't talking to that many people so again I'm bringing up my therapist but I didn't tell my therapist I didn't tell like my closest friends that I was making this movie about emotional abuse because I had just gotten out of a relationship that was extremely similar to the movie.

38:47And I didn't want anybody to tell me to not do it. Like I didn't want to get talked out of it. And I knew that there were good reasons for my friends and certainly my therapist to be like, is this the best idea for you like right now? So I just kept telling them it's about like three friends in a cabin and like it's about like their relationships which in a way it is right but um yeah I I like didn't even when after the movie was wrapped whatever like they didn't even know that it was about emotional abuse until like the trailer came out because I just didn't I just didn't want somebody to tell me well I don't know maybe this is the childhood thing of like I don't want you to tell me it's bedtime like I need to do this I'm gonna do this can I ask like how long did that um abusive relationship that you endured last um it was it didn't follow the traditional pattern which is kind of yet another reason why I was finding it really difficult to identify it and name it as abusive okay um because I was like reading all the articles and going like this doesn't look like some of it looks like how they're describing it but not completely and um So the relationship was seven years.

40:00Okay. But it was like an overnight switch. And that went on for about a year. So it didn't follow that more traditional, like, it's like a frog in boiling water thing where it started slow. It came out of absolutely nowhere, but was built on this foundation of I had so much love and trust for that person. So I thought it had to be me. Like I, if one of us is crazy, it must be me. Um, so it was very, very, um, difficult, um, to actually go, no, this, I think this is, I think this is him. I think, I think this is his stuff. because I turned my life completely upside down trying to fix whatever was wrong with me.

40:50And, you know, it didn't help that for a long period of time our, like, couples therapist, I think, just bought his stuff kind of hook, line, and sinker. And I've had several sessions with him in, you know, the last several years where he's apologized to me because I think he realized what was going on, like, right toward the end. but um yeah that obviously made everything a lot more complicated we always have to remember like therapists are human beings too and a lot of times they don't know the inner dynamics and if you are with a very manipulative person though that is good in crowds like they can mask it pretty easily and you can be kind of painted to be the person that's like insane or you're unreasonable or you're like unwilling to make the relationship work and when you have a licensed person staring at you next to the person that is abusive.

41:42Because we project so much authority onto them, even though we kind of know intellectually, well, they're just people. It's like, I just want, and it was also, I just want someone to tell me what's happening. Like I wasn't even thinking like, we're going to go into couples therapy and he's going to, you know, ream you out. And it's going to, I was just like, will someone just explain to me what's going on? So yeah, it was full on, but it was also interesting that like, I always felt like I was trying to stay so calm in couples therapy because I was like, fuck, in these sessions, he's so able to kind of stay calm in a way that he does not do when we're outside of therapy.

42:24And then there was a day again toward the end where I really kind of like lost my shit. And I did think like, oh my God, like, what have I done? Like, what have I done? Like, I can't, it's going to be so bad now. Like, what, what did I do? What do you mean? what do you mean it's gonna be so bad like if things when I'm trying so hard to like appease this person yeah they're so fucking awful so how bad is it gonna get now that I've like yelled it you know um and I sent after that session I first of all weirdly he was fine which was very weird very interesting because I think he felt like maybe a little bit like calm because he was like see you're fucking crazy so it was weirdly fine but I sent the therapist an email being like I'm so embarrassed I'm so sorry like I you know I need to control myself or whatever because I had yelled in this session and he called me which he hadn't done before and was like no no I'm so proud of you and that's when I knew like oh something has shifted like something's changed and then yeah things ended pretty quickly after that.

43:36I mean, I appreciate you sharing this just because I have so many women that listen that are like, what are the signs? And like, I, I, I appreciate you how you opened, um, the conversation about this topic about like, it literally changed overnight. And I was reading all the articles being like, is this me? Well, no, that's not me. You try to justify things. Like, do you mind sharing anything that maybe like my listeners could be like oh this this is happening to me too that like maybe doesn't present as like this is abusive and toxic but the undertone is so there god it's so hard it's so hard and I well I don't know maybe I'll maybe I'll think of something but it's this conversation is even like really complicated for me it's like even talking about it I can feel like my my body temperature growing up because I think that sometimes the conversation around like red flags like those are important conversations that we should be we should be talking about it like thinking about it looking for them sharing with each other and I think that even the most well-meaning conversation sometimes about like red flags is can be a little victim blamey and which is hard because I'm like well also I want to know you know and share red flags um because it does sort of put the onus on you to be able to identify something that by the way someone is working so hard to make sure you can't identify like I really started thinking about it like um like if someone was raised from birth as like a wilderness survivalist and they just dropped you or I mean I don't know maybe maybe you have this in your background but uh if they dropped you or me in the middle of the woods I would step into a booby trap within three feet yes because I don't know what to look for and it's like because I didn't spend my life learning how to build or identify traps like Like how is it that we're meant to like be inside the mind of someone who is working very hard to make sure that you feel very unsteady and are questioning yourself.

45:54So it's really complicated and it's hard for me because there are even times when I talk about my situation where as I'm saying it I will go am I making that up? Am I making everything up? Like, I remember having a conversation with my therapist like a year after that relationship where I was constantly asking her to just diagnose me with like an egocentronic disorder so that I could just fix it and make sure that like, oh, this just won't happen again or something. and there was a point where she was she was talking about my ex and she started to say something where she was like well you know when you're dealing with a wolf in sheep's clothing and I went no no what if I'm the wolf like what if it was me because I think that was the thing that I didn't expect was how totally convinced he was of his own victimhood like I I know him well enough in spite of feeling like, well, I didn't know him at all, but I know him well enough to know like he's not an actor.

47:07He's not a performer. He, you know, not a great liar in a lot of ways. So. I was like looking at someone who was actually kind of like suffering and and I thought like, well, if he's being manipulative, I'll know it because, you know, I'll smell the bullshit. Like I'll smell that this is kind of a performance that he's putting on. But I don't think he was putting on a performance. I think he genuinely believed that I was like torturing him. He told me one day I was terrorizing him because I was just crying because I couldn't pretend that things were fine anymore. And I just started crying and he screamed in my face, you're terrorizing me.

47:50But it was truly from the place of a person who believed that they were being terrorized. so I don't know if that would resonate with people but it's like even when I would watch these fucking videos I would read the articles and watch the videos and when like Dr. Romani who I love like you know she's doing like an impression of a fight where you know some abusive piece of shit goes Alex you're crazy but that's not how it actually sounds it's like it was like sometimes it was so emotional It was like, Anna, I'm begging you, like you're ruining everything you're making. Like it was so real for him that it was like, am I really am I doing something terrible?

48:34And I think that, you know, especially with conversations about like, well, you're always out with your friends and trying to isolate you, those kind of things. Like, I think they're really convinced that you're doing something terrible to them. So like the pain place is real. And that can be very, very misleading and convincing. I just want to say the way that you everything you just said yeah did that any of that make sense 100 it made so much sense if anything it's probably one of the best descriptions of it because I really really appreciate you saying like I still am uncovering some of the fucking red flags because I'm still even in my head being like did that even happen am I is it still some of it on me like I think that is a great message to just give to everyone listening is like it is not normal you should not be like oh that's bad behavior and I recognize that you're being manipulative and gaslighting and blah blah like when you're with someone that you love for so long and it does turn into an abusive situation it is so hard to see and that's why ignorant people that whether they don't have someone that they know or it never happened to them are like why didn't you just leave it's so it's so hard it's so much harder than that because even you to this day sitting here being like I still in my head I'm like was that real like yeah it's and even sharing that I'm like fuck should I even say that like there's something like that feels I think incorrectly but feels like shameful about how am I not more solid in my like healing recovery whatever how am I still but it's not that Anna it's like you are present in your reality today But when you reflect back on that relationship and that inner dynamic with that person, you are still perplexed by how the person sitting here today was in a situation and how that went.

50:24Like that, I think, is normal. Like, I think that's what people struggle with. And that's why I'm appreciative of you talking with me about this, because, like, it is so weird when you're like, I am happy and healthy now. So how can I still be affected by that? I think it would be weird to not be affected by someone that manipulated you in a way because it distorts your reality. And so like you sitting here, like, I guess I could ask, like, how have you learned? And I'm sure you're still doing it like to trust yourself again. Yeah, it's hard. I mean, yeah. I mean, even even having this conversation, you know, like in the the I know we haven't gotten there, But in the movie that I made, like something small, like, you know, there are all these different women in the film and they all have like very different personalities.