Breakup Bootcamp

0:02What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Hello, Daddy Gang. Welcome back to another episode of Call Her Daddy. I just wanted to start out by saying thank you to everyone who watched and listened to my last solo episode about choosing the right partner. I am so happy that so many of you resonated with that one. A lot of you also reached out to me saying that the episode made you realize that you are in fact not with the right person. I got a lot of DMs that started to sound very similar. Like, you know, Alex, I don't think I'm with the right guy, but I'm also scared to lose this person.

0:48I'm scared to be alone. I don't want to go through with the breakup and have to start over and so on. And so first thing I want to do is like validate you today because I know that breakups firsthand are so hard and a really big deal. And it can sometimes I get be easy for me to just sit here and joke around and be like, oh my God, bitch, dump him. Like we don't need him. Like he's not shit. Like he doesn't match your standards and he doesn't respect you and all this. But in reality, I do know that relationships are such a huge, huge part of our lives. And And ending a long-term relationship is a very big decision and it is extremely emotional and draining.

1:32So the reason I wanted to talk more about this today is because I actually think we need to reframe how we look at breakups. Yes, they absolutely suck. I'm not going to sugarcoat that. breakups can take you to some really dark and hard places, but I really do think they are also necessary in getting you closer to what's actually meant for you, right? You can learn so much from yourself from a breakup. They can end up being extremely important, transformative periods of your life. When a relationship ends, that just means that there is a lesson you still need to learn before you're able to choose and find that right partner.

2:20And if done right, a breakup can completely redirect your life into something so much better. But I also get that there is so much fear, right, that comes along with realizing you need to end a relationship. It can seem like you're completely losing the version of your future that you thought you were heading towards. The marriage, the house, vacations, kids, whatever you were looking forward to with this person, you now need to accept that you aren't heading down the path that you pictured and fantasized about and dreamt about. And sometimes that can make it feel like you're failing when a relationship ends.

3:03Sometimes it's not even about the person and actually losing them. It's also just it's mostly about the idea of everything that you were building towards. And I just want to say the reality actually is, is that you are succeeding at moving into a healthier stage in your life. If you are having to go through a breakup, that was not meant for you and you have to believe you're moving towards something healthier. But again, I know when we're in the thick of it, it is really hard to feel like something good is waiting on the other side. We always have our friends being like, girl, it's going to get better.

3:36And your parents are like, it's going to get better. And you say the same thing to your friends when they're going through it. But when it is you, it is so hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. And I also think that we can fuck ourselves over with worrying about what other people are going to think about our relationship ending. And it sucks to admit, but it's true. I think it can be really overwhelming, wondering, how is their family going to take it? How is their mom going to take it? How are his friends going to react? Will people in my life be disappointed or mad? That's a legit fear, right?

4:14It's this huge mental load because society still puts so much pressure on women specifically to be in relationships. And it's really scary to feel like you're not hitting an expectation. but I am here to remind you daddy gang that you have to remember no one else has to live with your choices but you after a breakup people are going to make dumb comments like oh my god you guys were so cute together or like oh my god I'm gonna be honest like I fucking hated that guy thank god he's gone either way you're gonna get in your head and start spiraling if you put too much weight on how other people are viewing your situation.

4:53The truth is, and I hate to say it, but no one actually cares. No one cares as much as you think they do because the decision on your relationship only actually affects your life. The only thing that you need to do when it comes to thinking about other people is remind yourself that they're on their own path and it doesn't need to look like your life, right? What they're up to doesn't really impact you. So every breakup that I've been through, I now, again, emphasis on now, can look back today and be like, seriously, thank God that didn't work out. And I have been through some pretty rough and heartbreaking breakups.

5:38In my worst breakup, I was completely blindsided. I remember feeling like the rug was just ripped from out under me on everything I had pictured for my future life. I can quickly tell the story. If you are OG daddy gang, you probably already know this one. But so one of, yeah, the worst breakup of my life. It happened in my early 20s when I was living in New York City after college. And I was living with my boyfriend. We were super in love, or so I thought. And we were always talking about the future and marriage and kids and where we wanted to buy a house. And at that time, we were so deeply ingrained in each other's lives.

6:31Like, you guys know how it goes. My friends were his friends. His friends were my friends. All of our free time was spent together. And because of that, understandably, I truly couldn't imagine a life without this person in it. And then I found out that he was cheating on me. And I still was willing to try to work through it. Because again, I just couldn't see a future for myself that he didn't exist in. He was my complete life at that point. so we did couples therapy we went to like one fucking session and I could see that he wasn't really going to fully take accountability and so I kind of ended up like taking the blame of like well I could have done this better and I could have done this and maybe that's what drove you to feel that way.

7:36And I just tried to make it work. And I was essentially willing to do anything, even though in my gut, I knew this relationship wasn't working. But it's hard, again, to see when you're in it. And you'll put up with things that once you get out, you wouldn't put up with. But when you're in it, it's really hard to be objective with yourself. And then one day, I will never forget this. It was a gorgeous fall Saturday in New York. My best friend was in town and I told my boyfriend that I was going to take her around and we were just going to go around the city and have like a fun little girls day.

8:16And we kissed goodbye. All was fine. I headed out. I didn't hear from him all day, but I wasn't too concerned. And then when I got back to our apartment, as I walked into our lobby, my doorman stopped me and he looked at me and he said, Alex, I'm so sorry, but you're not allowed to go upstairs.

8:52I was like wait I'm sorry like I live here like what do you I live here like I was so confused I'm like what do you mean I can't go upstairs like all of my stuff is upstairs my life is up there I'm just trying to go home to my apartment like what is going on and before I could get any answers he just proceeded to lead me towards a storage closet and inside were garbage bags. Just a bunch of garbage bags filled with all of my clothes, all of my belongings, everything I owned, laptops, cards, everything had been thrown into garbage bags and tossed out of my apartment. And when I tried to call my boyfriend and figure out what was going on, I got no response.

9:50He was completely ghosting me. And he essentially ended our relationship without even having the breakup conversation. I remember I went on to social media that day to see if I could even just like figure out where he was. and he was at a football game with his friends drinking beers. He's at the Giants game. I was like, oh, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. I'm fucked. And I'm like sitting on the side of the road with garbage bags, calling my parents, like begging them to come pick me up and help me because I'm like, I don't know what to do. I literally in that moment remember tears coming down, but also feeling numb, but confused and scared and all the things.

10:33And I remember just Like I literally thought my life was fucking over. I was so lost after this happened to me. I felt so discarded and disrespected. Like you cheated. I agreed to stay and try to make it work. And now out of random, you're just, you're done. And so I had no apartment, no boyfriend. It was like everything in my life that gave me a sense of stability just suddenly was ripped from out under me. And it's so crazy to think now I'm sitting here almost 10 years later and I am so grateful that all of that happened. Yes, I was heartbroken. I was embarrassed. I was devastated. but I was also forced to literally pick myself up off the side of the road, get my shit together, and really look at myself and look inward.

11:43After I got broken up with, I needed to figure out what I actually wanted out of life. And had this not happened, I probably would have continued trying to make it work with this guy and would have sacrificed parts of myself to just preserve what was left of the relationship. I know it wouldn't have lasted forever, right? But it probably could have kept going. And I felt without a doubt rock bottom because I had completely merged my identity with this person. I was relying on this person. It had just gotten so toxic. And even though it felt rock bottom, I got through it. I got a shitty little apartment that I rented for a couple months off of Facebook Marketplace.

12:37I started figuring out what actually made me happy. and guess what that directly led me to right after that breakup I went on to star call her daddy so like if I really look back I want to send all of those fuckers flowers that made that breakup happen and be like, kisses. Thank God. Thank you so fucking much. Like getting dumped set me on a complete new path that changed my life for the better. In the moment, I was like, I actually feel like I'm going to die. And meanwhile, little did I fucking know. I didn't see any of that at the time. I wouldn't have believed that things were going to get better.

13:27My mom kept saying, It's going to get better. I was like, you don't get it. You don't get it. Because after something flips your whole life upside down, understandably, it can feel impossible to move on. But daddy gang, listen to me when I say I promise you, you can and you will get through it. If you know your relationship is coming to an end or maybe you're fresh out of a breakup and you're struggling with how to cope, this episode is about to be for you, okay? Today, I want to share some breakup wisdom. Whether you are the one who's doing the dumping or the one who just got dumped, we've got you.

14:12What? We? Who's we? What are you talking about, Alex? I thought this is another solo. No, honey. We. I am not going to do this whole episode alone. There is one girl who has been by my side for all of my terrible breakups. And I have been there through all of hers. So daddy gang, make some motherfucking noise for Lauren. Hi, Lauren.

14:57Okay, Lauren, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you. I've never been invited to podcast in this studio before. I know. I think it's time. You deserve it. I've made it. This means literally nothing. We were just saying like, oh, I feel like this is a more serious topic. and let's really like do a full interview conversation style. Okay, yeah, so you heard my breakup story. Yeah, every time you say it, it's always like, damn, like I forgot that happened. I know. And I can't believe that happened and I was literally there for it. No, you guys, not only were you there for it, but I have it ingrained in my mind that when I was going through that breakup and I found that random, because this is before Lauren and I lived together, I found that like random spot that I got for two months and I called you.

15:44you came over because you were living in New Jersey yeah I was living in Hoboken and she comes over and I'm I all I have in this place that I rent for like get for the night is this like mattress on the floor yeah because you were doing like a sub letter situation with like random roommates yes and I like roll up we've got the mattress on the ground and I remember Lauren's looking at me and she's like let's go get a sandwich and so we walk to this deli we get a bunch of like shit food we go back we both like lay on my mattress and I just cry in your arms I think that's what we did that night though that's all we did we just slept and cried and you were like dear dear dear Alex meanwhile you're like who didn't see this one coming but again I think that's like the perspective of a friend versus the person in it because you've been through breakups too and it's like when the person is going through it the friends in the back of their head are a little bit like I knew this was coming most of the time yeah but I wasn't saying that to you that night at all you were like this is horrible how dare he like oh my god I didn't see it coming like I can't believe like you're probably so like I was not telling you like Alex like you needed to get out like you don't it was too early for that no no and I think what's so weird about breakups is like I've been the person that's done the breaking up and I've been broken up with and both sting so much so Lauren why don't you take us through this conversation today?

17:02Really lead us in. So I have like a few things that I like topics that I want to talk about that I think apply to both whether you're breaking up or getting broken up with. And the first one I want to talk about is the closure conversation and kind of hear your thoughts on when you think closure is necessary, when to have the conversation, what to say in the conversation and kind of both of our experiences with it. But let's start because I even have more questions about this with your breakup you just described so can you like take it me through and talk about like when you had that first conversation talk to me about that well that's interesting of like when you deserve closure because I think my first reaction goes to this is a pretty perfect example because I think you deserve closure when you're blindsided right yeah like I was completely blindsided so it was like no no you now cannot disappear off the face of the earth and just never give me an explanation as to why this is happening especially since he was the one that cheated I was like wait I've put in so much work like if anything I should be the one breaking up with you like what the fuck so yeah it was pretty brutal I didn't hear from him I'm again and this is like 10 years ago so this is just like from what I remember is about a couple days went by and then I got an email from him I forgot about I know that email but I think I remember I will never forget like the fucking subject line was like hypocrite and I was like oh hello but I like saw his name so I was like happy and also terrified and we then went back and forth on email for about 24 hours and it started with him being like super nasty and it was clear that like his friends had gotten into his head and then slowly it got to him being like I've never been more miserable I miss you so much.

18:49And that really fucked with my head because as hard as a breakup is for those 72 hours, I was slowly trying to, like I said, pick myself up off the side of the road and really start to like repair. I was in no way, shape or form ready to completely be like, all right, I'm back on my feet. But you start to grieve. So then for him to come back and be like, I miss you was so disorienting but I think I also clung to it because it felt like it I don't know it felt like why wouldn't I take that right like I was angry but I also when you're angry at the person that's breaking up with you there's also a part of you that's like but they also were the closest person to you in your life so I was kind of like wanting to get that's what I was gonna ask in that first like conversation that you guys had going into that were you hoping gonna get back together I think I was just looking for some form of I know this is fucked up to say but like closure in the concept of like somewhat getting my power back I felt so embarrassed and hurt that I felt like when he was telling me that he loved me and like he was I remember him like texting me after we transitioned and he unblocked me um and we got back to texting he was like I'm still your person right and so imagine the mind fuck which I think we should get into today is like I'm looking for closure but he's still saying I love you you're still my person so it's like but why did then did you break up with me and he I think he kind of was unresolved in what he wanted and so it made it really really hard on me and so the closure ended up lasting for like three months we ended up ongoing conversations ongoing like trying to get back together just trying to like figure out I think it was a little are we making the right decision is this really over I think that was like I think a part of us knew it was over but then we wanted to like see if we could relive it for a second and maybe like maybe we could make it work and it was so clear that there was so much hurt on my end of like you disrespected me I mean he had publicly tweeted our breakup I guess when I look back the closure was not the closure I would suggest for anyone listening is like you should not allow closure to be that long and to continue to be that long because you're really only hurting yourself by engaging in it but who am I to say at the same time because it's like well I lived it and I did that so that was gonna be my next question like now where you are and like the experiences you have the other people you've dated the therapy you've done what advice would you give now okay so I think my biggest advice which is really really hard again and I'm giving you the advice that I wish I could have given myself is like trying to avoid getting so into the weeds when you're having a breakup conversation when you're the person that's getting broken up with because for example I remember saying to him like we literally were like looking at houses in Westchester we were talking about getting a dog like we were like what do you mean so like how did this happen and so pausing right there I'm asking him like how were we talking and planning our future and then you're doing this to me that's like something I needed to work on in therapy because what I now have perspective on is I was asking those things because my reality had just been completely shifted and it was now distorted and literally less than 10 minutes ago at one point I was like oh my gosh I wonder like what color we should paint the walls of that house that we're looking at to then all of a sudden he's no longer in my life but asking the person like but so did you not mean it about the Westchester house no most of the times they do mean it about the house and the planning and everything but something shifted for them and so getting so in the weeds of like okay but what about when we were looking for a dog did you know then you're only going to upset yourself more and they are not going to give you the answer that you want so try not to get so deep into like but this this this this and just I think try as hard as you can to stay more high level about like do you have an idea of like when you knew what is the biggest factor for this and like was there anything that we could have each done or have you known this for a while like it's pretty much that and I think you can kind of get clarity on like is this done done and like do you see this is like completely not being fixable and like not holding on to hope and if you're the person doing the breakup or initiating the closer conversation like not giving false hope no and i think that that is one of the biggest traps on both sides that people get into because most of the time even if it's a nasty breakup this is someone that you were in love with you sleep with you are building a life with when the person that's getting broken up with looks at the person and it's like wait but we but like so this is it I think the person that is doing the breaking up there's a part of them that is like if they loved you at all is trying to ease the blow in any capacity you think it feels better if you're like well like maybe there's a chance sometime and it's like do not do that makes it worse because it feels better it's selfish that that is you being selfish if you're the one breaking up with someone and they ask you if it's completely over and you're like well maybe I don't know like let's we just need some time do not do that especially if you know that's not your true answer because you're leading them on and it actually is so much fucking better if you just close the door like you guys as I'm saying this I'm realizing and we've talked about this before Lauren like I don't know who I am to be giving advice I guess now because I've like found a relationship that is working and works but I have never ever in the history of all of my relationships ever been able to do a clean break I have never been able to be like okay this is over goodbye I have always lingered most of the time I'm the one that's doing the breaking up except for that really that tough one yeah still lingered when I've been breaking up with people I still am going back they're coming back and we're and it is so fucking messy again I think it depends on what point of your life you're at like I can sit here and tell my college bitches like guys don't do that who am I fucking kidding you are you so hard it's so hard it's so fun like it's so fucked up to be like oh my god fucking then you see him the fucking dining hall or you see him at the frat party and then like you're getting each other jealous so it's like I don't want to also be like you know don't go back and have a clean cut if you're engaging in a little less mature relationships I think that's normal if you're really talking about life partner marriage kind of shit you got to close the fucking door right then and there kind of keeping on this like closure conversation.

25:34Why don't I turn the tables on you, you little bitch? Because Lauren, we lived a breakup of yours and you've broken up with two people. I've ended two serious relationships. Yes. You've ended and you've gotten better. That's so funny to say, like, you've gotten better at it. The first one I remember, Lauren's like going to break up. We had to call your mom that morning. I'm breaking up with my college boyfriend. We're living in New York City and I'm like look at me in the eyes not more than an hour okay I know that it's tempting because at that point you were like he's going to be so blindsided and like I need to really ease in I was like not more than an hour I'm not fucking kidding you I think it's five hours later I'm looking at your location being like they're getting back together they're getting back together or something's happening talk to me about that breakup of how you handled that conversation and like any advice you have for people or like learnings you had from that I think like my biggest thing that I went into that one with was I was going to lead with like we were just gonna sit down I was just gonna lead with the line I'm sorry I'm not in love with you and I'm breaking up with you we practiced it so many times I was like okay we add a little bit more emotion she was like literally I remember telling Lauren you have to let him know you're not in love with him anymore and Lauren was like okay I'm not in love with you and I'm like Lauren Lauren can be so like analytical but i was like no no no like like welt up a little tear i'm like well the whole like thinking behind it was that like we weren't sure if i was gonna get literally anything else across so i'm like i just need to like rip the band-aid off immediately and leave with that line so why did we think that i wasn't in therapy then i don't know i was kind of like avoidant i don't know what we thought but we were just like i need to get in there sit down look him in the eyes and say i'm sorry i'm not in love with you and i'm breaking up with you wait i'm literally listening to us and i'm like that is horrible we were like we thought we were so locked in we were like rehearse it again wait one more time she's walking out the door i'm like one more time she's like i'm not in love with you i'm like oh man it's gonna be great that is not the way no i was gonna say i actually have a different opinion on that now okay because one of the things i so why one of the things i had written down was when you're breaking up with someone can you say like I still love you is that fucked up and if you're getting broken up with can you ask like do you still love me and if they say yes like okay what does that mean two things number one if you're getting broken up with I will actually fucking punch you in the head if you're like but do you still love me shut the fuck up girl take the fucking l and your pride actually though you feel that way lauren what do you mean if someone is like I don't want to we've been dating for like five years and like I thought we were about to get married and like you're breaking up with me I can't be like so do you not love me anymore oh my god I just said that do you see how crazy and delusional that is it's like does it matter he's breaking up with you okay so if you're getting broken up with don't ask do you still love me but if you're breaking up with someone because okay now I have thoughts on this but I'm gonna hear your thoughts first if you're breaking up with someone yes can you say like I still love you okay first of all I I just want to be clear.

28:42Clearly, we're not. We haven't had the best track record with this. No, my second one was better. I spent thousands of dollars in therapy preparing for that breakup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but still, we could have done better. We. Listen, we. We did plan that one. We're getting to that. But for this, I think, I want to be clear. I'm saying don't do that. I'm not saying I haven't done it or I, like, I get it. It can happen if you're like, but do you still love me? Because I think it's a natural thing of, like, maybe it's your only hope left of being like, Like, wait, this part of this was real, right?

29:12Yeah, yeah. And again, that goes to the person getting broken up with. You're trying to find some semblance of like your reality and you're trying to ground yourself in like, I just got fucking whiplash out of this thing. This has been my life. Now it's not. Hold on. Give me one morsel of like hope that I wasn't fucking missing everything. And I'm not like crazy. Like, am I just like a dumb ass blind? Yes. But to answer that, I think that it is not appropriate to say I'm still in love with you I think that's beyond inappropriate if you're breaking up with someone and saying I don't want to spend the rest of my life with you anymore this isn't going to work out but I'm still madly in love with you oh okay Fernando well what do I do with that like awesome should we go to dinner like okay I'm in because that's that's where the person getting broken up with and you've seen the movies where they're kind of like so are you still coming to my cousin's wedding this weekend like what are we doing I think that you can say I still have love for you and I will always like feel love towards you but I just think because you cannot be madly in love with someone and be like I'm leaving you unless what I talked about the other week was like I am madly in love with you but you don't want kids and I do and so like I have to leave for myself and for you this is not that if it's a very specific yeah babe if you're just like oh it ain't working but like so obsessed with you where do we go do you disagree you disagree no I agree no this is the evolution from breakup one to breakup two for me breakup one like I wasn't in love with him I still had love for him just because there was so much history there and I think you said I I like of course I still love you no for some reason in my head we drilled it in that I have to go in there and say I'm not in love with you you were like you disgust me he's like wait what you're like I don't know I just in my mind it was like if I even say like I have love for you like that's misleading you know what I think it was and this is why that one was really difficult is because the length of it yes seven fucking years i mean that's longer than most marriages i feel like i need to like go in and be like we outie we fucking gone we needed a hard break so yeah that's true i think we thought he was gonna like fight you a little bit on that we were worried he was gonna be like lauren calm down like hold on and talk you lightly out of it in a way that you were like oh i'll fully get talked out of it yeah i'll stay another year yeah because you would already you would already guys i've already stayed five extra for context for context we knew by about like year two and then all of a sudden she's hitting year seven and she's like what's another year so i was like you will not get talked out of this that's why i went down and laid the hammer down okay so any learnings from that breakup I think my breakup one was cold yeah so cold so breakup two I was in a very different place in life I'd been through therapy this was a much more mature relationship let's talk about this so I think something I was thinking about the other day like knowing we were gonna like talk about this when I was living with him and we were having these very like everything on the table conversations acknowledging like can we make this work is there compromise here are these differences too big to move forward and when we were living together and like just in this house that we both lived in and that kind of represented like us trying to like have this adult relationship and like look to the future I just like couldn't get myself to end it and like couldn't really picture ending it and then I we were going on tour for like tour two and I came out to LA to do rehearsals for like a few weeks with you and like getting out of our shared space and kind of just having time away and it was at the point where we were having those like every single night those like exhausting conversations where you wake up like I'm so like emotionally exhausted like I can't see straight like I don't even have the energy to like you guys were little it wasn't even like fighting no it was just like we were hitting such walls because we just wanted such different things and I was just so emotionally exhausted and like also like confused that it took me like physically leaving our shared space and like not that like I got to LA and you sat you didn't like sit me down and be like you need to leave or like anything like that it was just I think the act of like which is my advice for people if you're in something like I just described where you feel like you're in this cycle and like we just keep hitting the same dead end over and over and over and you have that gut feeling you're just like I know and I think but you wake up and like you're kind of oscillating like you go to sleep knowing you want to do it and you wake up and you see him and you're like but wait do I it just made like the world of difference getting out of our shared space having a week away and then I literally I remember it I woke up you had we hadn't really talked about anything I woke up we sat at the breakfast table and I was just like Alex I need to end my relationship and you were kind of like wait what yeah I remember that too because I remember where again we had gotten to that point where you were so drained and I agree with you I think had you been not able to get away I think that it probably would have gone on longer death oh I know for a fact literally daddy gang even if you go away for a girl's trip if you go stay with your parents for a weekend like ask your friend like can i sleep over a night or two and just like clear your head because i agree with you you were like but then we're like have we had a nice dinner yeah so then like does that mean i should stay and it's like when you're in the weeds again of like life and then you have these moments where you're it starts to kind of fuck with you because you have one little good moment and then you can be like okay i can push it off no maybe it's there was still love there so that like you're saying was what was confusing like we'd have this fight and like be crying and like can we make it work and then the next morning we'd be laughing over breakfast and I'd be like I'm so fucking confused there is nothing that 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36:56Yeah. It went as good as it could go. Yeah. Now let's fast forward to closure. Talk to me about that part because you ended up going back and seeing him and going back to your shared space because you had to get your shit. I think like the main driving force of the closure conversation was like logistic based because we live together and we needed to figure out like when I was moving out, what how we were dividing up all the stuff and the furniture. So that was like the main reason that we were having the closure conversation. And I also kind of just like opened the floor and was like, you didn't ask a single question really during the breakup.

37:33So if you need me to answer anything or explain anything during the closure conversation, like I'm open to do that. That's really nice. Most people wouldn't do that. That's really nice. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I mean, I cared about him. Totally. So I think overall closure conversations, a lot of times I've learned don't go in asking for the weeds. Don't ask all these. You can ask a couple questions, but at the end of the day, most of the closure is going to come from within yourself. After closure, without a doubt, something that I failed at, but we should talk about now that I'm reformed, is no contact.

38:14Let's talk about no contact, Lauren. How are your thoughts on it? Have you been able to achieve it? Because we know I didn't. Tell me. I think if someone were to ask me and say, like, what if you can give one piece of a breakup advice, what would it be? Without a question, no contact. Yeah, I wish I could have done that ever. The self-restraint is impeccable over there. Oh, well, okay, I'm lied. So I did go no contact in theory in the sense that like, after the closure conversation, we like never texted. I didn't have social media at the time. So like I had that makes it so much easier. So I had no social media to follow him or anyone.

38:59And we like really didn't even have like a mutual friend. So like, it was like, no contact. And like, I actually had like, not the slightest clue what he was up to. Except I did this one, like slightly creepy thing that was like my like backdoor way into like a little bit of contact you don't come off as a creep so I'm ready for whatever this is about to be I don't think I'm normally a creep I think this was just like my one little thing that like mentality yeah this is like my one thing where I kind of like look back and I was like oh whoa whoa whoa whoa I mean breakups can make you go fucking crazy yeah okay what did you do um so the year prior for Christmas I got his parents one of those digital photo frames that you can control on the phone app.

39:41So I had the phone app for his parents' photo frame. And I still like had the login, was like Wi-Fi up to date, getting on the live time. So the photo frame app became like my social media. And I would just go in daily and see what photos the family were uploading to the family photo frame. I watched him go to a baseball game the week after we broke up one of his little cousins birthdays was a few weeks later they looked pretty happy there and you're like waiting to see him pop up with a new girl how long did you do this Lauren just like a month and then I was like then I was like I need to delete this photo frame app but I think they may be caught on because like you can like see like little bubbles like who's in the app like who's logged into the photo frame and I think they saw me in there because they then like really slowed the ropes on like the amount of photos they were uploading creeper they're like i mean lauren's in here every fucking day 24 hours that's yeah that's gonna do it um that's creep that's creep mentality but i agree that's like creeping on the family yeah yeah that's like a different level of creep you're kind of like what's your dad up to and it's like why do you care i think that that's normal though not that to go on the person's photo family photo frames i think the curiosity when you know someone's fucking family and have been to family dinners and functions it's weird to just be like okay see you around or i guess i won't like it is an odd feeling to lose essentially this new community that you built into your life through this person it's an extension of your life and then it gets completely cut off and every weekend you were going and seeing his family and now they're gone you kind of need to wean off you know and so no contact can be a little difficult because when you go cold turkey you can start to have like the jitters oh my god I think I'm like I'm like it's it's too much so I agree I think social media plays that part but my biggest advice for social media was I remember when door number three and I if you guys remember door number three um we had a very serious relationship and And we ended so cordially, which is such a weird.

42:03It's almost harder. Oh, it's horrible. Yeah. And we had a really tough breakup because we were long distance and we decided it wasn't right. But then we continued to follow each other on social media because. Thinking you could do it like amicably because there was no bad blood. Yes. And then I would see him post or post on his story. And every single time I saw his face pop up, I had either a negative or positive reaction. Some days I would be laying in bed and I would miss him. And then I'm seeing him on social and then I'm romanticizing and then I'm going through our DMs. Sometimes I would see it, but I'm on a date with another guy and I'm like, why am I looking at this shit?

42:45And so eventually I did unfollow him and I knew it was the best decision, but it was really difficult because I think as much as I hate to admit this we all take social media followings and blockings like the fucking word of God like people will be like you unfollowed me like are you're so fucking immature whatever that it's almost like a flex like oh no like we can still follow each other and be cordial and it's like please hear me daddy gang when I say I would rather you have your now ex get pissed at you temporarily to be like you're so immature that you can't follow me and then that be the one conversation and then you keep moving forward rather than you stay following someone and you stay having to follow your life and listen you're all like well you can just mute the person no no you can feel when you're following someone get this person out of your life I so agree with that I also think for no contact something that I would put into the category of no contact which is really really really really hard is I am someone who takes pride in the amount that I save things.

43:57And prior to being married, when I started Call Her Daddy, it was like almost validating for me that I had kept all of my exes and I conversation, all of our pictures, all of our screenshots. And then it was great content for Call Her Daddy. And I was like, I knew I needed this one day. But in hindsight, when you do break up with someone, I really, really believe that if you know in your heart that you're never going to go back to this person, you really should be deleting your text messages with them. Because in dark moments where you're in bed and it's raining and you've got the notebook on and you're crying, you're like, what did he say to me on December 15th?

44:35And you go back to your text and you're reading it and it's only hurting yourself because you're rereading a reality that doesn't exist anymore and you can trick yourself into being like I miss that I want that but there's a reason it ended so I would say delete the text and I'm not saying you have to delete the pictures but put the pictures on a computer or something that are not hard drive yes because let me fucking tell you as a girl that has 500 ,000 photos on her phone when I'm scrolling and I'm like oh I need to find that picture from 2020 and I'm like oh or when your phone's like featured photos of the day And it's like you two cuddling and you're like, no, no, no.

45:13So I think delete. No contact, though, is hard. Let's pivot into when you have a similar friend group. Oh, I've been there. Yes. So have I. Let's talk about that because so. When you do a breakup, the best success you're going to have is if you can literally cut off every single form of everything and you act like this person literally died. I know it's morbid, but that's the truth because you need to start to like flush your system of this person and that life that you had with them. When you have a similar friend group, it's close to impossible. And I remember, so I had a boyfriend in college that we were really serious.

45:55And when we broke up and I broke up with him, I remember being so resolute in this decision. I knew at the bottom of my heart I loved him so much as a friend. And I just didn't see us romantically lasting. But we were intertwined in everything in college. And then I will never forget, I think the bar is shut down now. It was called Tease back in the day at BU. We were all at Tease. And he shows up with a girl on the field hockey team. And I am like, what is he doing? And in my head, I'm like, he's still mine. meanwhile it's like you broke up with him Alex let him go he's with this girl on the field hockey team and I'm really not proud of this after like my like third shot I remember being like I'm gonna get him back tonight and I was so immature and I went up to him and I ruined his good thing and I seduced him into coming back with me and we had sex and in the morning I woke up being like why did I do that?

46:55It was like my ego needed to not let him go, even though I was the one who let him go. But the proximity of seeing him with another woman clouded my judgment so heavily in believing that I still wanted him. But really, it was just jealousy. And all these things led to I hurt him because he woke up and he asked me, so what does this mean? And in my heart, I was like, fuck this means nothing and so having similar friend groups I started to realize like I need to stop when I know he's going to that bar go to a different fucking bar that night the temporary annoyance of having to pivot with my friends to go to different places was worth me able to start to move on and him also being able to move on more importantly what do you what is your um friendship situation um my solution is i think a little unrealistic so i'll also give some like realistic solutions um but when i broke up with my college boyfriend in new york we my whole new york friend group was our college friend group like we had like the most overlapping possible friend group and that's when i moved that's when i was like you're like a fucking outie bitch oh yeah so like okay yeah to backtrack moves from new york to la he's like so that's when i sat down and i was like hey so i'm breaking up with you i'm not in love with you and in a week i'm moving to la he was like are you going through an episode or something like i actually knew if i did not move because our lives were so ingrained that like there's no chance that i would have stuck with the breakup so yes i know that everyone can't just break up with someone and pack up their life and move I know that's not realistic yeah but I really do think if you share a friend group you need to do like at least one month of it's gonna be annoying but like being mindful of like we're not gonna go to the same things and like asking your friends asking people do you know if he's gonna be there sorry can you find out if he's gonna be there like don't just like do the thing where you go and being like I don't think he's gonna be there like knowing he probably will and like because every time you see them it's just literally like setting you back and setting you back and I also think like don't let it become an ego thing where it's like well these are my friends like he needs to be the one to not come like no and when alcohol is involved oh my god I just feel like every time you go out and you run into your ex and everyone's drinking you're at bars or restaurants or whatever it be really watch yourself if you know you do have to randomly be in a situation where you're going to be with a recent ex I think protect yourself from like do not overindulge maybe don't drink that night because the minute you hit that second drink he may start to look nice again or you're looking for a fight it's gonna go wrong I agree with you though Lauren I think this is probably one of the hardest situations is when I mean even if you have a fucking co-worker that's also fucking horrible because when you go through a breakup you're like I want to lean into like the social element to like distract myself so it's so much harder when you're like oh cool like now I have to like decide like is he gonna be there am I gonna be there that's given me less social opportunities.

50:05I do think though something that I could give people advice for if you are in that situation with a friend group is being really open with your friends because I do think sometimes when you are the person that you guys are both in the same friend group, you both broke up, everyone's kind of like, okay, we know you broke up, but like we're now not gonna like not go enjoy our Saturday night because you guys don't want us to all be together. I think you can make that clear. Like guys, I'm not asking you to pick sides. I just need you to help me because I want to navigate this like the most respectful way.