Catherine Paiz: My Husband Cheated with 20 Women

0:00Daddy gang, welcome back to another episode of Call Her Daddy. Today, I am sitting down with Catherine Pies. If you are a fan of the Ace family, then you already know exactly what we're about to get into. But for those of you who may not be as familiar with today's guest, I'm going to catch you up. Okay. Catherine and her ex-husband, Austin McBroom, started the Ace family YouTube channel in 2016. They were essentially the first family vloggers to ever do it. And people were so obsessed with them. To this day, they still have 18 million subscribers. OK, so for years, everyone watched Catherine and Austin's relationship play out online.

0:43We watched them get engaged, have kids, move into new homes, and they documented every aspect of their lives on YouTube. Now, throughout their relationship, there was a lot of controversy. There was financial turmoil and there were tons and tons of cheating allegations. But to the public, they always put up a united front until they suddenly stopped posting and revealed that they were getting a divorce. For the past about two years, they have been basically not really addressing anything. And there are so many unanswered questions. How often was Austin actually cheating? Was Catherine aware the entire time?

1:27What was going on with their finances? And what is the truth behind the drug allegations? So, Daddy Gang, I am excited to give Catherine the opportunity to speak on all of it today in long form for the first time. Let's get into it. What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Catherine Pies, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you. Okay, we've got a lot to talk about, obviously. You and your ex-husband, Austin McBroom, started The Ace Family, which quickly became quite literally the biggest family YouTube channel ever to exist. And then suddenly you guys went dark.

2:17And I think everyone has a lot of questions, which we're going to get into. but first I just want to know how are you doing? I'm doing good. I feel like I'm in a new place in my life and I'm just so excited just to like be free with myself and just be authentic. Not that I wasn't authentic before. I just feel like I'm at just a new stage yeah yeah you and austin's last video together was almost two years ago i know i didn't even know that almost two years ago okay that's crazy which is crazy because i feel like for so long people watched you every single day like you were on our screens for so long so to go for two years it's been a long time why are you ready to talk about all this now i think for me it's like i was I felt silenced for so long and it wasn't like someone was silencing me I was silencing myself and I think that for all those years of just not being able to just speak freely and just like really sit with myself um it was really hard Alex it was really hard and I think that now I'm just so healed from all of my experiences not just my relationship all of the traumas and all the experiences that I faced early on in my life I've just healed so much through all of them truly like actually truly and I just feel so um alive I feel like I can really just be myself and it's okay you know it's it's it's okay to be me and sit with myself and I wrote a book yes you did I wrote a book about um you know some of the experiences that I had early in my life um into my, you know, into my adulthood.

4:09And I think through my healing and through writing of this book, I've really just like came back to myself. That's really beautiful because I think so many people always say like, why now to people? And I actually was interested to know like, why now? And I can feel your energy. And like, I think a lot of people who have been your fan for so long have wanted you to get to this point in your life. But I do know a lot of it is a little messy because I just obviously saw some chapters got released of your memoir and then you have your ex-husband Austin coming forward and he's already commentating on this is a lie this isn't truthful this is exaggerated how did you feel when you saw him kind of publicly coming out and trying to put down essentially this book yeah I feel like that's already an indicator of why I never expressed myself you know through all those allegations of cheating and infidelity and all those things it's like I was so afraid to speak up I was so afraid to say I'm an idiot like I just didn't see it you know or I was so afraid to say you know I'm trying to hold the very little piece that we have in our family I'm trying to keep that together I'm trying to shelter the very little piece that we have, you know, and for me, it was like, you know, I'm just, I'm embarrassed.

5:39I don't know what's true or not. There are so many things that aren't true. It's really hard to, like, differentiate what is true, what isn't, until I really found out. Okay, we're going to go all the way back because I feel like we know you as the Ace family. We know you as Catherine, a part of the Ace family, but I think it's important and you talk about this in your book. I want to just lightly talk about your life before all of this. Describe like, what was your experience growing up in your family dynamic? Yeah. So my mom was born in Nicaragua. My dad is Panamanian. They met in Panama. They were teenagers when they met.

6:21And, you know, they had a lot of hardship. um they had a very toxic relationship just like any young couple that is new to a country new language new everything they didn't have family they didn't have friends and so the first half of my childhood my dad was a single dad um my mom uh took herself out of that toxic relationship and moved to florida and so um you know i i knew she did that for the best of for the best of the family and um it's interesting because i'm like i was such a i had such an awareness even as a child that i like knew like she's doing the right thing you know what i mean like i knew that as a child and i'm like i know my mom is doing this for us you know for the bigger picture um my parents didn't have much money you know really nothing um and i had this really weird relationship with money.

7:17Like I remember thinking like, you know, my mom would say things like we don't have the money for that or we can't do that or, you know, and I remember looking at her and thinking, I'm going to make a lot of money one day so that I can do all the things that I want to do and I can support you and I can support my family. And it was like this drive that I had inside of me. So many adults, you got to that place where you're like, what was lacking in your childhood that then you were craving? Because whether you had friends that had it or you were told you couldn't have it then it's almost like that goal in your head which then we'll get to because then you eventually got all of that and sometimes it doesn't mean that that is the thing that brings you happiness but when you're young and you have this vision totally it's like you're gonna go for it no matter what yeah i'm interested though hearing you talk about your parents having a toxic relationship like how did their marriage impact you at a young age of like how you viewed love yeah hugely oh my god that's such a good question you're so good at this thank you stop um okay so i feel like when my marriage was going downhill we didn't have good communication that's one thing i you know i take full accountability is i had the worst communication um and i'm still working on it today i think i've gotten a lot better but um when i look at my parents i thought I don't want to be another couple that doesn't make it.

8:45You know, I want to be, I want to have that traditional love. You say your I do's and you're in there for, you know, till death do us part. That was like kind of my, the way that I saw it, you know. Also having children, you know, you want your children to grow up with both their parents. And that was my dream. It's like, I want to be able to have that family. and when we had it you know what I mean and and I thought oh my gosh like I remember one morning I remember thinking like did I make it like looking around I remember did I make it and I was like well why do I feel so empty

9:42let's talk about austin can you tell me how you guys met like how did that all go down yeah um i moved to los angeles i had this fuel to move to los angeles i was super excited and i bought a one-way ticket um my friend invited me um to an all-white attire party and i walked in and i saw austin from across the room awesome room from across the room and I looked at him and I thought I don't know why but I feel like I know him so interesting and she introduced us and we shook hands and that was it and then I took an uber home and I didn't talk to him so about a month later he had messaged me on uh I think like twitter or something he was like hey I'd like to send you something and I didn't respond so a month went by and then uh he messaged me again and he was like hey I'd like to take you to dinner and I almost didn't go I was like I don't know why but something's telling me to go but I'm just like I don't know I don't know and so um I'll never forget that morning he was like so oh he goes do you like sushi and I said no he's like okay well me neither but I got us a reservation at Nobu Malibu and I and I said okay that's nice like in my head I'd never been there before so i'll go so we go and we're sitting across from each other you know we're by the ocean and we're talking he was asking me a lot of questions about me i thought that was really nice you know he's a young college student it was like he was going into senior year of college playing d1 basketball and he's talking and all of a sudden like i just don't hear anything and i'm like oh my gosh that is a person that i'm gonna have children with and that is a person that I'm going to marry.

11:26And I knew it in that moment. Like nothing could tell me otherwise. What was it about him? It was just a feeling. It was just this feeling. It's like this inner knowing. And I thought, I just know it's him. Okay. You write about in the book that the first time you have your first kiss is the same day that you both also say, I love you. Were you nervous at how fast it was moving? No. No. Why? Because it was just meant to be. I saw this thing recently. I don't I don't know who said this. I'll find out and let everyone know. But she said when you meet the one or when you meet someone that you're meant to be be with, you skip the dating phase.

12:09So it's like we just went from like meeting each other to being like we're married kind of thing. You know what I mean? Who said I love you first? He said it first. Did you say it back immediately? Immediately. And so it didn't freak you out at all. You didn't feel like it was like love bomb me at all. You were just like this is this is it. This is it if you had to pinpoint it back then What do you think was different about austin compared to all the other guys that you had dated? Well one he doesn't care what anybody thinks and I think I find that so attractive and I feel like that's like my inner self is like I don't give a shit what anyone thinks But he was like that person for us in our dynamic, you know taught me a lot um, I also think you know, he's very um he's just very motivated he's a very motivated person um and i just i was just so attracted to the fact that he was so free with himself and i never met anyone like that actually the only person that i know close to him is my brother and i always said oh my god you and my brother need to meet because you guys are so much alike how soon into your relationship did you get pregnant Like two months.

13:18It was so quick. It was so quick. What was Your reaction? What was austin's reaction? So it's interesting because the day before we found out we were at a restaurant And his friend just had a baby. So he's showing me the newborn photos And I was looking down I was like, oh my gosh, like would you would you want to start a family one day? He's like, yeah, I like I would love to have kids one day. He's like, you know, maybe in the future, you know And he goes like, we'll start a family one day. And I was like, I like I know like I feel it, you know, I feel I feel a family for us. Just I just knew it.

13:52But I didn't know I was pregnant already. How did you tell him? He was right there in the room. I he was in the room. He was sitting on his belly, you know, scrolling on his phone. And I thought, you know, I feel feel nauseous. You know, I feel kind of sick. And he thought, oh, maybe we should take a pregnancy test. And I'm thinking like nothing's going to happen. and I took the test and immediately I stood up I didn't even think about it I just stood up hey and I threw the stick at him by like close to him on the bed and he's looking at he's like I'm like yeah I think we're pregnant and he's and it was the lines were very faint so we couldn't tell for sure but just his reaction yeah and just the way I slept I slept so good that night I didn't think about it I'm thinking we're good no matter what you started this YouTube channel obviously shortly after that she was born.

14:41How did you guys decide to do this? So when he was in college for that last year, I decided to move in with him. I was pregnant for that whole year. And he had a roommate, like someone that was kind of there just to help with that last year of college because he was playing, you know, D1 basketball and he was still going to school. And then, you know, I was pregnant. And so he was kind of just there to like keep tabs and make sure that everything was good and he was the one that said hey guys like you guys should really start a youtube channel and he's like you know your videos are going viral on facebook and people are making money off of them and i'm thinking like what because we would make like cute little homemade videos you know of him talking to my belly or just us being funny and goofy or whatever and he's like people are taking your videos and monetizing your videos why don't you guys make your own videos and i thought can we do that you can make money off your videos i'm like what like that's so crazy and um at the time you know his dreams were to play in the nba and that summer um you know he he he got with the wrong agent and he did a couple tryouts you know one with the lakers one with the knicks um and just it didn't work out and we thought what are we gonna do like either you go play overseas uh in greece or something we move the bait we go the whole as a family and and but nothing is you know in set in stone like we don't know what that looks like and so then that's when we were like let's start youtube back in the beginning once l was born whose decision was it to make her a part of the content it just came naturally yeah because i didn't film my birth with Elle.

16:21It was like, you know, we were just private, you know, just, I mean, we filmed on our phone, you know, we weren't making a vlog. And I think like, it just made sense because we are so hands-on with our child and we, my, I was not going to get a nanny. I'm like, I'm going to raise my daughter, you know, I'm, I'm finally have my daughter here, you know? And I thought, well, we can make content with, with our daughter, you know, we can just naturally organically share our journey did you have any hesitations in the beginning or later on about putting your kids on camera never and you know why alex because back in the day it was really new like youtube it's been a thing for a while but we were really like that like i hate to say the word but i feel like we kind of pioneered that like family vlogging experience you know what I mean it's like we were the first to do it at that magnitude in that way and it was like I it was like when this monster of like social media was starting you know sometimes I think back I'm like oh my god am I part of that this craziness that's going on now in the world you know because obviously I'm sure you've seen it but like there are people that accuse you in Austin of exploiting your kids like what do you say to that yeah I just think that like when we first started it was so pure it was like pure intentions it was like obviously we want to make a living you know like anyone wants to make a living you got to work but it was more like we're just being present with our family our daughter and it's interesting because we would make these elaborate videos and we found out very early on that people enjoyed our family vlogs our simple family vlogs sitting on the floor those would get more views than our like big elaborated videos we would spend money on and doing so it was just like well people just want to see us they just relate to us maybe they see themselves in us so much of your success is through your children like did you guys have a big conversation about setting them up with money and like putting money away for them or was it more just like it's all the families yeah no they have their separate bank account um i actually very early on in my career i think 2017 when el was about a year old we got her a bank account you know um yeah i think that those were the conversations and things we were having um but in terms of like exploitation and stuff like that never crossed our mind that was like like i don't i just feel like we were just the beginning of something new how do you feel about it now you know we're in the age of technology and you know it's like there's no right or wrong i don't think like i think that like if people choose to keep their private certain private things away from social media that's beautiful and i think that if some people choose to do it the opposite way i think that that's beautiful too i think that everything's meant to be the way that it's meant to be once you guys kind of started really becoming yourselves and people know knew the ace family like on a good month can i ask like how much were you guys making so there was a period we were making like we were making seven fingers a month um to me it it was like i was numb to it truly like it didn't make it was just like it didn't make any sense i was going through this phase in my life where i just felt so disattached and now I look back and think oh my god I would have done so much with that I would have invested I would have bought my mama house my dad a house I would have done this this and that and it's like we we just didn't have the right mentors we didn't have the right tools you know we didn't have we had a lot of yes men around us and we just made really bad business decisions along the way once you guys started filming everything all the time when did it start to feel like you weren't just filming parts of your life but you were living to film and get content like when do you think that switch happens because I feel like for a lot of creators yeah it happens oh my gosh yeah there is moments where I'm like because you know like big reveals and stuff like people want to watch those that's a great clickbait and so um you know it was genuine for a long time it was like okay like he's genuinely surprising he's genuinely proposing to me like it was like wow like this is so crazy that we can capture such a big milesome big moment and we can actually look back on it too like it's filmed um but then also having so many eyes on you i didn't know back in the day back in the time now i know but i didn't know that i was not protecting myself but the moment that um i realized where i i don't know if this is real or not real i don't know um that must have happened genuinely i there was like a big moment for me it was when my second daughter was born um i just felt this disconnection and it was like I actually don't want to film this but like I know that people are waiting for it because they've invested so much and there was this fine line of like do I put my foot down and just like live in the moment or do I also so and then he was holding the camera so it made it easier but then it was like is he here though is he present so that that was like a big moment for me and did you end up releasing a video oh yeah yeah how did you feel about it i was just like really numb and empty at the time yeah did you ever find that you started to not be clear if austin was doing romantic gestures for you because it was he was filming it so it would look good for you guys as a couple or were you like wait is he actually doing this romantic gesture and he just happens to be filming oh uh totally yeah there was moments where i'm thinking like i don't know like you really surprised me you know or it's like and then it was like me kind of having to follow with that like surprise and then i'm like i feel like i'm a clown in a circus you know what i mean right because you couldn't just naturally be like like if if my husband surprises me of course i'm going to be surprised but then you kind of like chill for a second after wait when did you think of this but you have to you see the camera so then it's like keep it going call the kids down get everyone around let's run to the backyard and it's like you're a production yeah and it's theatrical which feels like you probably were on this hamster wheel where it's like you can't get off this ride almost and you did you and austin ever have a conversation being like let's set boundaries of like what we should keep private and what we shouldn't there might have been moments where we kind of talked about, but to be honest with you, not really.

23:39Like, I just, we didn't have that communication within ourselves, yeah. In the book, you write that Austin made a lot of financial decisions without asking you and that it was so extreme, you would check your bank account and see six figures missing. Where was all the money going? Yeah, there was moments where, you know, I'd see some money coming out and it was, you know, to pay this, pay that. And it was like, I didn't feel like I was having that like wife, like that partner, that husband and wife conversation about our finances. And it would be heartbreaking to look at the bank because I was very well aware of what was in there.

24:18And it's like, where did that go? Like, what's happening? Or like one thing as well, it's like little things that, you know, things that I would never think to pay for, like a private jet, for instance. You know, that personally for me wasn't something I would ever do. Like if I had never met him, I would have never been on a private jet today. I'm like, probably never, you know, because I'm thinking like, I'll just take a regular flight. But little moments like that. But it seems which makes me sad for you, because I feel like that unfortunately is a lot of people's experience where you're like, I didn't feel like it was a partnership when it came to finances.

24:55And yet you were 50 50 and making all this money. like did you ever go to him and be like austin i feel a little bit in the dark here like we need to have for sure and how did he react when you would bring that up oh you know i'm sorry you know i didn't want you to worry and i don't know i just feel like you know i i get it but it's like that's not what a marriage is about a marriage is about talking about these very deep things that really affect like our children and our future and like you know when you make certain investments the goal is to make at least make your money back yeah you know and so um that was really stressful for me that really caused a lot of stress and strain in our relationship that's what i was wondering because i know you write a lot about the home foreclosure that you guys went through which was so public and so many people were talking about it i'm like are they broke what's happening and you put a lot of the detail beautifully in the book but like overall when you look back at that moment in your life what did losing that house represent to you so leading up to that moment um we i felt like there was a lot of things that i was losing control over right my family my relationship um our career everything right there was a lot of narratives and things that were being said.

26:23And I was really strong. And I was like, I'm going to be strong. And I'm going to keep fighting. And we have our home. We have our home. Our kids are happy. They're healthy. We're healthy. Everything's fine. And so one day I wake up and I get a phone call. It's my father-in-law. He said, Catherine, the house is under foreclosures all over the news. I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean? He goes, well, your loan ended and no one's going to, it's a jumbo loan. No one's going to accept you. You don't have the certificate of occupancy. But I'm like, but I've been paying the mortgage every month for three years.

26:52Everything. What do I need to do? What do I need to pay? I'll save it. What do we need? There's nothing you can do. It's under foreclosure. It's gone. You have 30 days to move out. Oh, my God. Yeah. And it was heartbreaking. I cried in Ocean. And it's crazy because out of all the things that were happening in that era, that was the thing that really broke me. Because I was looking for a home my whole life. It's like I just wanted to feel like I'm at home. Can you explain to me, because I'm sure people are really confused and want a little bit of clarity on like, there was so much going on behind the scenes, obviously, that people didn't know.

27:32Like, what was it really like between you and Austin when the cameras were off? When the cameras were off, I wouldn't say that there was much of a change. I think if anything, at least I can speak for myself, I feel like I was pretending. You know what I mean? It's like, I feel like I was just so disconnected from myself, not like everything around me, but like within myself, you know? And I was like, all of this happened so fast. Like I gave birth. We started a YouTube channel. It grows overnight. I'm a new mother. I'm newly married. There's all these eyes on us. There's so many people that want things from us.

28:17And, you know, it just it was just a lot of things. And so when the cameras were off, it was more like I'm just going to sit here and breastfeed my baby and just like scroll on my phone. Like I never went out. I never hung out with my friends. I hardly saw my family. I was in a really dark place. Let's talk about the cheating allegations. So over the years, there were so many different allegations of Austin cheating on you. and it was a pretty constant conversation online for a couple years at first how much attention were you giving to these rumors and did you even believe them when it first started when it first started my heart sank I'm like oh my gosh like I remember like sitting with my oh my gosh like is this gonna happen you know and then it was like oh well I see I'm with him every day like we're co-parenting we're married we're business partners I mean when is he gonna have time but it's really interesting i was telling my mom the other day i remember when i was 16 years old and i walked into a room where the tv was on and there was um it was that talk show uh tyra banks and there was a lady who said if a man has enough time to go into the bathroom he has enough time to cheat and it just stuck with me and i thought does he have enough time to cheat on me you know what i mean um and so that was kind of like the beginning it's like i don't know what's true or not.

29:40And, you know, and I'd even have moments where we'd be laying in bed, you know, just falling asleep. And I'd get a text from a random number. Your husband is out at a party with me, and I'm thinking like, he's right over here. So there's moments I didn't know what to believe. There's some things that are true. There's some things that are distorted. There's some things that are not true. So it was really hard to tell. And in those moments, did you, because I know you're kind of saying your communication wasn't great when the allegations started did you bring it up to him at all or was that another thing that you guys kind of were like yeah no no no I brought it up and what was his response in the beginning oh you know that comes with a territory and let's not respond because we're just going to add fuel to the fire and it's not true I'm like okay you know and and you trusted him I did yeah I really trusted him when you look back at the very beginning like the very beginning allegations do you believe even then he was cheating no can you take me to the moment where you found out about he was cheating and then we'll dial it back to like all the others but the first big moment you're like oh shit he's cheating where were you what happened

31:06the first big moment you're like oh shit he's cheating where were you what happened yeah so there was a couple there's like quite a few moments okay there was a couple of moments where I was like I'm heartbroken like um the first one let's go to the first so you know I don't remember exactly the first first moment because I feel like there's just so many but um there was this one moment I had just had my daughter my second daughter she was about six months old or something and he was like hey I have to go to Miami for a meeting and and I go please and I'm you know i'm the type of partner where i love for my partner to feel free like i trust you go you want to go on a trip you want to go boys trip whatever you want to do go like that's just my personality now i look back i'm thinking like i should change to change some things up a little bit and care a little bit more right but at the time i just had a baby i was tired i was filming every day i had another baby and taking care changing diapers breastfeeding i breastfed all my kids five years straight so um super exhausted super tired you know and so he said i want to go to Miami and I said you know you go you go on your trip and I remember calling my mom and my mom saying I would never let my husband leave when my baby's just a couple months old like you're I don't know you're different I'm thinking oh well I don't know I was like you know I think he deserves it he's been working so hard he edits people don't realize he edited every single video on our channel we didn't have an editor so I thought you know he deserves to go out like it's okay he wants to go on a business trip whatever I remember that business trip like it was yesterday that business trip he called me quite a few times where i felt like you're calling me a little too much like i was just like i don't know like it's okay go have fun you know and he pocket dialed me accidentally and i heard women in the back a couple women and i thought okay well okay well i guess my husband's hanging out with women yeah i'm thinking whatever hung up the phone continue with my day a couple of months go by and this uh blonde male makeup artist makes this video on youtube talking about my husband and how he was in miami and there was this group of people and there was all these girls and there was this bow and all these and to be honest with you till till this day i never watched the video but i have gotten that like information from some good friends who watched it for me and were able to like process it for me and help me process it and i was pregnant in that moment and i had to i had to listen to that and i nobody knew i was pregnant i was having my son and i and i remember bawling and thinking is this true and even if it's not true why are people saying this this is like so detailed and like and i believe you know i didn't believe the horrors but it was like am i am i just being stupid right now like am i just really not sitting with this or am i do i do i vindicate him do i vindicate our family do and that's what i did and i think back at my old self i think i poor girl like i wish i could hug her today like she was just going through so much and she um the old version of myself just wanted to protect that little piece we had in the family you know and i would see it in his eyes and i'm thinking like i don't know like something's not right but i'm gonna have a baby and i have to focus on the baby right now so i wasn't sure right and that was a big moment for me because there was some things that were being said that just it just made a lot of sense it was all adding up you know what i mean and did you confront him yeah i did but not in a way where i was like it was more like how do we fix this because this is not true and he's like yeah that's not true that's you know what this guy and he's making things up and oh my god he's trying to extort me and this and that and you know some of those things were true some of them weren't and i thought how do we fix it and i was i was just lying to myself i knew deep inside something didn't feel right yeah but then a couple months later i was um we were filming uh this thing called vlogmas on youtube people film every day for the month of december and we had done it you know um it was like a comment i remember we would do every uh winter and um this was in december and i was you know at that point i was about three months pregnant with my son i didn't know i was having a boy yet so i just you know i was pregnant i wore baggy shirts and like you know like i'd wear bigger shirts because i didn't want anyone to know yet i wanted to keep it to myself especially because there was all this like negativity going around about him yeah so i'm like i'm just gonna keep this to myself and then there is this moment that changed everything for me um we oh i had a dream i have a lot of dreams very symbolic i'm sure you do too yeah i had a dream where i was walking into my bedroom the bedroom i was sleeping in we had this massive long 10 foot bed i'm walking into the room and there's this he's sitting in the bed and there's a woman with this beautiful blonde hair i just see the back of her and she turns around and she's this demon and i woke up from that nightmare and i was i was crying i was like oh my god that was the worst nightmare i've ever had like i literally there was a demon on my bed and the whole day felt eerie it was so eerie it was so weird and i didn't tell anybody and i was just like that's so weird a couple of hours later we start filming and we go to um this um studio to get my daughter's first haircut she was a year old she's getting her first haircut and he you know um our assistant um who's austin's friend from back in the day was there it was austin and myself and our daughter and we walked in you know there's some fans and they were like can we take a picture and i'm like yeah yeah like let's finish filming you're doing this and we'll take the photo so they're all waiting there and you know everyone in the salon knows who we are and stuff so it was just you know a regular moment we're there filming he's filming um our daughter's first haircut and i'm kind of like i'm taking photos for myself for my phone you know like oh my gosh like taking the photo and then like a movie my camera I mean, my phone dies.

37:42It just goes black. And I look at him without a thought and I go, give me, give me, give me your phone, give me your phone. Let me take a photo because, you know, we're going to miss the moment. She's getting her first haircut. As soon as my hand grabs that phone, mind you, I had never, never looked in his phone. Ever. Ever. Never. I grabbed the phone and it felt kind of weird because I'm like holding his phone, right? Like, it just felt odd because I knew maybe there had, maybe thinks he was hiding i didn't want to look yep as soon alex as soon as i grabbed the phone no like out of a movie this long text comes through if you really love your wife you wouldn't be da da da da and i i like my my brain scanned it but i wasn't able to read it fully but in that moment my heart drops i'm pregnant there's people watching us the camera's on it felt like it just felt surreal the assistant looks notices looks at him he grabs the phone from me and instantly deletes the message and i thought oh my gosh it's true oh my god yeah and i was calm very calm and we've you know we paid and we finished i i wasn't in my body anymore my like i wasn't on earth anymore we walk out of the um store or the salon and i said austin who was that and he's like it's nobody it's nothing please tell me who that was i saw the text and i i kept replaying what i could have done should i ran to the bathroom like should i like take like i'm like what should i have done like tackle him and read it like no like i was like I didn't get to fully read it.

39:28But you saw enough that it said, if you really love me, you'll leave your wife. I saw enough to know instantly, this is an emotional relationship he's having with somebody. This is a woman that is having a relationship with my husband. And we got in the car and, you know, then my voice got a little, who was that? Oh, like, lower your voice, the kids. And I'm like, okay. And I'm calming myself, the kids are in the car. Let's like, I mean, it's have grace, right? it's a strong poised get home we get home blacked out i was like yelling screaming tell me please please just tell me who that was please just i feel so stupid just tell me i'm having a baby please just tell me and i ran out of the house i got in my car and i just started driving and i didn't know where i was driving just driving crying in ocean bawling i couldn't even see where i was driving and i thought i need to park somewhere so i went to a park parked at the park put my hands on the wheel and I said God if you hear me please tell me what to do and in that moment it's so interesting because um I knew that one day I'd have a son and that I would name him steel there was like this inner knowing and when I had that conversation with God and I was really just like just like a point of just I'm surrendering just tell me what to do and I heard this voice and it was like you are having your son there's a reason you named him steel you have to stay strong for this whole pregnancy and just don't make any impulsive decisions just keep going just keep this in the back of your mind it's gonna it's it's gonna live there and it's gonna it's gonna you're gonna to see everything's going to make sense but don't make any big decisions right now and i went home and i acted like nothing i acted like nothing i was you know i was i didn't talk to him for a couple days i think that was the longest we'd ever gone without talking since we met i think i think we went like two three days um and then um i texted him and i was like we need to talk and we went we we took a drive we met in the middle of a street and we got in the car and he told me who she was and he showed me and I was like okay so that was the girl you were talking to a couple months back now it's all making sense like you said you were talking to a girl that needed help with snapchat I'm thinking like why is a married man talking to a woman about snapchat like snapchat wasn't even monetized in a day like what are you talking about like what are you doing like okay this is making sense okay this is making sense okay so I thought okay well what do we need to do like how can we how can we move on from this like what do we do like I was like and I didn't tell him this at the time but I thought I can forgive him because he's crying out for help and I can I because at the time I was I wasn't religious I still not religious you know I'm I believe in Christ but I'm not bound by like religious structures but I was very like you stick to your husband I was very like traditional in that sense and I don't know who made me like that but I was just that way and I thought okay maybe I can forgive him you know and so as the days went on you know then we went to um a trip to Hawaii someone said we should go there because you know that's where the heart chakra of the planet is and you know maybe we can get some healing and so we went to Hawaii and then that's when I had posted that I was pregnant thinking like I'm getting bigger now I need to post and yeah it's it's a it's a secret that I was carrying inside of me and I wanted to like scream out loud that I was going through this but I couldn't listening to you say this though Catherine like so many times now you've said the minute you find out you're like how can we fix this how can we fix this and I think it does connect to what you've been saying of like you're on this hamster wheel you're out of your body you're all this happened to your life and you're just going and you can't even like stop to be like are you okay like do you it's almost like you it sounds like you weren't even like feeling like you were just like how do we fix this it's like almost like your business you're like how do we fix this and move forward how do I stay by my man and move forward I'm wondering though when you're saying all this like is he apologetic in the car when he's speaking or is he keeping it more like brushing it under the rug it's not that big of a deal i'm gonna be honest with you it never felt apologetic ever yeah and you know what's interesting is um

44:19even through our divorce even through everything i never heard him say the words i cheated until about a week ago when that first chapter of my book came out i've never heard him say the words i cheated and when i heard the words i was like oh my god finally i heard it thank you so much that was all I was waiting for thank you that's all I needed to hear you could have just said it to me you could have just been honest with me and just told me but it was like I was being gaslighted like it like it wasn't actually happening and it was like and um yeah I think that finally hearing those words was so healing for me because it's like I wasn't going crazy like it was everywhere Everyone was saying it.

45:09Why do you think he decided to finally say those words? Just because you were officially calling him out? That and because now I understand the whole picture. I get it. I think a common theme for him was because if you really think about it, what kind of woman sleeps with a married man whose whole identity is based on being a married man and being a family man? you know so i kept thinking i kept going through those things as well as like women are really like that like women and so um what i was thinking was um he must have been telling this woman that i didn't care and in that video he he posted last week um out of everything he said i mean everything was false right uh or distorted or whatever but but the one thing he said that really really just like it was like a like a punch to the gut was that he said that i was that yes i cheated and she was okay with it as long as um he said as long as i said you don't embarrass me and that is not true i never ever ever said that i would never say that and i would never want my kids to think that that is okay to cheat on your husband or your wife and i will make sure that I raise them and that they know that they never ever do that because that is so wrong and you never cheat on the person you love and I would never in a million years say that so that was really hurtful that he that he said that because I'm like are you just accept it people would understand that better he's putting the blame back on you that's him taking no accountability think about that the first time he acknowledges that he cheated the end of his sentence he can't just say i cheated yes i cheated because she told me just don't make me look dumb aka you were allowing him to go and have all these relationships and you're sitting here being like i would never alex i would never do that and i think now also understanding like how you write in the book you kind of talk about like once the first you really got the concrete evidence then more came out like how many more did you find out about i know like i know personally of women like i like don't know them personally like as i'm friends with them but i know who they are and i would never say their names yeah never never never never i would never you know i'm not that kind of person but i know of many um many as in like i know for sure of three like for sure for sure have they ever reached out to you no but they're out there in the world acting like that never happened probably and i know that the truth how many do you think there are i don't know i i saw some headline things saying he said it was there was 20 or something i don't know if that's true or not because i didn't watch his full video but um i don't know if he did say that kind of trying to cover himself yeah um because i think when he saw um the beginning the the first chapter of my book he thought maybe that i wrote a lot more about him but i kind of didn't in a sense like to be honest with you it's a memoir about my life um but i will say that when you write a book you always put the um the hardest part of your journey in the beginning of the book right to catch the reader to really draw them in that's just something that as writers it's common and so um he really got it backwards i want to ask you there were some like viral cheating rumors that i want to just like get your opinion on tana mojo recently revealed that she covered for austin after you found lipstick in austin's car what really happened there so she she covered for him which i believe that it's probably true definitely happened because um i remember we had a lamborghini at the time i never drove that car and i got in one day um as a passenger and i noticed there was a lip uh lip liner lip lip liner lip gloss something like that and it wasn't mine and i thought and i i'm like whose is this he's like oh um so and so got in my car the other day and you know his girlfriend was on the lap and i drove them down the street to get into their car and i just i i'm like i don't believe you like at this point now i'm i'm i don't believe you right it's like i'm gonna call him right now and so i guess she was there and um yeah i think you know um i think her publicly talking about that is hurtful why didn't you call me message me tell oh hey girl i was there on that phone call i just want to let you know you know that wasn't true it was also rumored that austin would hire nannies so he could sleep with them when you weren't around do you know if this is true no we never had a nanny never had a grandma okay um did you ever get confirmation if the infamous yacht orgy happened yes i actually did yeah wow and that was when he butt dialed you that weekend that was that weekend yeah how did you get confirmation through a friend who's married to a guy that was physically there wow yeah years later by the way yeah when it didn't matter anymore it just like it was like oh really oh okay that's the best to me right you're like shit i guess it didn't happen did did Austin really bring his mistress to a charity event you guys threw together at the Staples Center?

51:02Yeah. So there was this girl, the girl that I was talking about earlier, the one with the long text. So that was her. Since that information came to light, Austin has completely denied it, said he would have never brought a girl there. That never happened. Like, what do you say to that? To me, it's like, why lie about that? But now I know like you can lie about a lot of things that aren't true. So I'm like, okay, well, because the thing is, is that I knew that writing this book, there would be some kind of like retaliation or some things that are said. I knew that, you know, something would come from this, obviously, because, you know, I wrote a book.

51:39I didn't know what magnitude that I wasn't aware of. But it's interesting because I saw it and I thought, this is not me. You know, like this is, I'm past that. like I truly feel like it was a test truly it's like you Austin you could have handled that differently you know you could have said I saw I saw see she has a book out you know and one of the things he said is I didn't tell him about the book the thing is when you go through a divorce you don't really tell someone what you're doing you know what I mean and I had been promoting the book for actually for two years I've been talking about it so he had seen it um I think if I would have mentioned the book to him privately he may have want to try to stop me from doing it so it was just something i didn't i mean it was doing me you know um but yeah i think that um him he he could have handled it differently he could have said you know i just saw that katherine you're my ex-wife she has a book out and he could have said something along the lines of you know although i don't totally agree with what she said you know there's i guess there's always different sides of the story and i wish her well and i'm not proud of the things i did but we've both moved on and whatever yeah i just feel like the staple center moment for him to try to say that wasn't true it's like again austin trying to reclaim this narrative because specifically that i think because there's footage of you and your family and it was such a core of who you guys were totally to the world it makes him just look like an absolute fucking monster to like you if you're gonna cheat can't you just go do it in private like you have to put katherine and your children through this and so i think it must be him trying to reclaim the narrative a little bit and like litigate like well no i didn't bring her here but i brought her it doesn't fucking matter well the crazy thing is it did happen and that's where i found out all the lies So like that moment was a significant moment in my life.

53:47So of course, I'm going to talk about it if that was life changing for me, because I was pregnant when all of these things were going on. And I got confirmation from one of his family members saying, I told him not to bring that girl. And I'm thinking like, what are you new to like? I'm thinking like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm just being blindsided over here. Like, I had no idea. Like, truly, like, yeah, I've been seeing the rumors. and the narratives. But, oh my gosh, like, why can't you tell me? Like, why don't you talk to me? Was this before or after the text incident that you... That was around the same time.

54:25Okay. So that's when it all started to like, come out. And then to go to this event and have that woman there. And now he's trying to say no. Okay. Austin recently tried to justify all of his cheating by saying you guys weren't having sex. what was your sex life like at the time so um sex intimacy is very very sacred to me like more today than it has ever been um

54:58when i found out that there was cheating i checked out and i said my body is a temple and i refuse to allow anybody to come near my temple if he cannot be honest and truthful and loyal and it was like i'm checked out and it is true and i actually i wrote it in the book i put the same exact put four years it was four years it was actually more like five years if you think about it because um five years of what of not being intimate with him okay because um just just to be completely transparent and honest because i do feel like a lot of women and men can relate to this but um i was going through a lot of postpartum you know your body changes you know you're breastfeeding and you're taking care of multiple children and so um we um we had my daughter and then we had you know i was pregnant that whole year and i you know i was the cheating allegations all the things and i thought you know i don't know and then i got pregnant with my son and i'm thinking like maybe we can make this work you know maybe this is not what it all seems to be and you know we had just moved into our new house and we're like you know maybe maybe we can have a the family that we're always meant to have you know the family that we're portrayed of the world you know maybe we can really be that and i got pregnant and then that was a and then i found out he was cheating on me and that was it that was a never never ever ever like never again never again and did he pursue you at all like did he try no and that's how i knew that there was cheating going on right yeah and you know now now i know how that's not normal at the time i thought you know we're going through a lot you know there's a lot of bad things happening around us you know we have children you know and we're overworked and we're tired and we're stressed and we are anxious and all these things and now i think back i'm like even when i would like we would kiss or it just it was a disconnection and I thought this isn't my husband like prior to all the cheating allegations like did you have like a healthy intimacy life with him yeah yeah I think that that's what part of you know our love and our bond it's like we are so deeply connected like in all ways and yeah I'm a huge part of this problem though it's like I take it full accountability on being in a relationship with someone and not also pursuing intimacy because although I was disgusted and I didn't want like to be intimate I didn't have these very serious conversations like hey maybe we should go see a therapist like maybe we should do couples therapy maybe like this is a normal going like another year without being physically intimate it is such an important part of a marriage and a relationship.

58:13Was it the cheating that really broke down your marriage or were you guys rocky before you found out and with the allegations? It was a cheating. It was nothing else. Couldn't handle anything. I have to ask, Austin said you weren't having sex because you believed you were the Virgin Mary reincarnated. What is your response to that? um it's really hurtful because it's just such a strange thing to say um for years in my spiritual journey um i would you know everyone in my circle and everyone knows how deeply connected i am to christ and to mother mary um more than ever today i i feel like i can connect to her always and i think that's just his way to just throwing jobs just trying to make me look crazy you know try to paint a picture of she's crazy um yeah it's just it's it's kind of sad during all of this i think this is something that's very sadly relatable but you didn't confide in anyone right for most of the time how did you decide not to tell your mom or anyone my decision was solely based on the fact that i didn't want that to change people's perception of him because i thought that it we we could heal and we can get to a better place i didn't want to say something and then them like have so much you know information at the end of the day it's like it's almost like gossip like you know gossiping and i believe i truly believe that gossiping is poison and so i thought you know this is my marriage and i'm gonna i'm just gonna keep it to myself because i need to figure it out within myself when i decided that i wanted a divorce that's truly when i told my parents and my family it's like i want to get a divorce and they were very supportive of me but was it like eating you alive holding this on by yourself yes and for a while it was but i felt at one point i'm like everybody knows you know it's like everybody knows it's it's it was like it started to become so obvious i i do think which i'm interested to hear your opinion on this like i think there was a point where the public was almost shifting to being like so frustrated almost with you because all of these women are coming forward with like pretty detailed tangible stories and you guys are posting like a united front, nothing's going on.

1:00:51How do you think not acknowledging all of it publicly impacted your reputation?

1:01:14How do you think not acknowledging all of it publicly impacted your reputation it deeply impacted my reputation i feel like i was like in a fishbowl and like i couldn't like it's like all these eyes pressing in on me and i'm thinking like oh my gosh i don't know do i do i protect or do i say my truth and then my whole life changes you know what i mean And it's like, I always thought about my kids first. Like, I need to be a mother to them. I need to mother them. Their mother needs to be happy, healthy, laughing, playing. Like, I don't want to, I don't want to like have two separate homes right now.

1:01:58I don't want to have to figure out what I'm going to do for a living now because we've been doing this for almost 10 years. You know, we've been doing this for so long. and it was just me trying to just like navigate that with myself like I didn't want to make these big impulsive decisions publicly and I think that's totally fair I think like I get why people would start to be like hello like do you know like what are you doing like say something or leave or say I'm staying with him even though I think there was moments where I'm like I'm gonna leave tomorrow like I'm gonna do this tomorrow and I'm just not gonna look back and I'm just gonna go and I'm gonna find a place and you know it we won't film and people are gonna wonder what happened to us that like I had those moments yeah I had those moments um but I think what was the hardest part about all of it was that he would never admit to it and I thought well if you're not admitting it to me you're not gonna admit it to the world right so that was the hardest part Right.

1:03:02It's almost like you were in this like gaslighted situation where this person is telling you it's not happening. And even though in your heart, you know, it's happening. You also are presenting as united front to the world. And it's like, am I going to say it? And then he's going to deny it, even though the whole world knows it. And I've been and I'm pregnant and I don't want to leave. And I have kids like it's such a complicated situation. And I get with social media, people just judge on the surface. I've done it. You know what I mean? Another thing too, Alex, is another big thing that I had in the forefront of my mind.

1:03:35And I look back and think like, oh my gosh, I shouldn't have been thinking like that. But I felt like if I broke the family, I'm thinking like I'm needing to break the family for this, then I'm going to break everyone's heart. I'm gonna break millions and millions of people who watch us and who see sees us as this Powerful power couple and i'm gonna break everyone's heart because this isn't real. This isn't true This isn't what people think it is anymore and I also didn't want people to bash him because i'm like As much as he hurt me as much as I feel like I got stabbed in the back Like I can handle that but like can you handle the scrutiny and the all this?