Charlize Theron: I Don’t Need a Man

35:11Can you just explain what happened when you got there? Yeah. I didn't know what an audition or what the process really, what that looked like. An agency that I was working at as a model, I said, listen, I'm interested so naively, didn't know how you went about being an actor. I said, if you hear of any auditions, I'd like to go. and they said oh we think there's a casting for this movie and you have to go on Saturday night and they gave me the address and it was this director's house and I the little voice inside me definitely said this isn't right but then the other voice in me says well I don't know maybe it is right but you know that like that voice that we don't listen to that voice knew that voice was like this isn't right and it wasn't right and as women like you we're constantly in positions where we almost like we want to be like no i'm overreacting like there's no way i'm gonna get there and it's gonna be weird there's no way and even when it is weird you're talking yourself out if this isn't weird like no i'm taking this the wrong way that's not what he's mean with that he's not And by the way, this guy, he got a little nervous for a while there.

36:40I've never said his name because honestly, I don't want the story to be about him. You know, honestly, it's not because I'm protecting him or anything, but he got nervous for a little bit. Why? Because he heard me tell the story and he knew it was about him. And he wrote me a pretend letter trying to explain his behavior and how I must have misunderstood it. Which is classic, isn't it? It's so classic. No, Charlize. Yeah. He wrote you a letter? Yeah, because I think he panicked. He started panicking. Of course. He was like waiting for me. And I just realized like, I won't even fucking say your name because you know you're the scumbag.

37:17Like, you know it's you. And if anybody ever asked me about him, I would be completely honest. And he knows that. And I kind of like that he's got to be on a hot seat. He doesn't know when it's going to come. I kind of like that a little more. i'm so sorry because like i opened up in my documentary about this person in a position of power that abused their power and sexually harassed me and all the things and coming forward about it i had like such anxiety and it's interesting because it's like you're in a position of power now you were so young in your career from what i understand this was like a like huge director.

37:56Yeah, huge. And the power imbalance being there in that room on a late Saturday night, what the fuck are you gonna do? And most people would be like, well, why don't you just get up and leave and yell and go immediately report it? And it's like, it's so nuanced and complicated. Like, can you just explain, because I have so many women listening, like a little bit about in those moments now, when you look back, how to not feel such shame and guilt for something that clearly was not your fault. Yeah, it's so hard to even, it's like we can only share these experiences and we can talk about them enough so that hopefully it becomes normalized that we hear it enough where women can just go like, okay, I've heard about this time.

38:42Like while you're sitting in there, you can hopefully say like, okay, force yourself to do this thing that we may be. The point that I'm trying to make is that we have to be careful because it's very hard for people to understand why someone with a strong personality, someone who's outspoken, how someone like that can find themselves in a position where they won't say something. And that is the story that it's a classic story, right? It's very, very complicated. And even though I want younger generations of women to not do the same thing, I also understand if they do do the same thing. Because I drove up Laurel Canyon and I was so mad at myself.

39:28I remember like being furious with myself because I couldn't believe how I had let myself down. Like I was like, what the fuck? Who the fuck are you? Like, where the fuck? Why the fuck would you allow that? Like, why? I still get those feelings, you know, because it's like you know yourself so well. And it's very, it's, there's something that really like kind of like breaks my heart to the core when people so, so in this very luxurious manner talk about, well, you know what, next time you should fucking say something like, don't wait 20 years okay this kind of like callous way of not wanting to believe like that's really what it boils down to it's instead of saying like i don't believe you it's like well don't be a fucking pussy like maybe you shouldn't have been a pussy about it and we all know what that feels like it feels like no matter what they say it can't hurt more than what you're telling yourself like I beat myself up over that I was like you can say whatever that you want motherfucker trust me you can't hurt me more than I hurt myself about what happened that day I mean even just listening to you say it it's so it brings up so much I think for every woman probably listening because you're like you're so right in those moments I remember I was sitting every time I talk about it, it makes me emotional because when I was sitting on the stage at Tribeca, because that's where my documentary premiered, and I did a Q &A after, and I started talking about power imbalance and when someone does something to you and you're in this moment and you freeze or you fawn or whatever it be, and I'm looking at the audience, and there's like a couple hundred people in this audience, and I'm looking at all these women's faces, and multiple women have just like that look where I almost wanted to pause and be like I see you yeah how many women in this room how many and I'm not kidding you Charlize I literally think almost every fucking hand would have gone up and it breaks my heart because I'm like holy shit this is happening as we're sitting here someone some woman has experienced this thing this feeling.

41:50And I agree with you. I think for me, I relate a lot to what you're saying of being someone that's so outspoken. I do think a lot of people are like, there's no way that would happen to you. There's no way. And it's like, oh no, the minute you're in that room, you're not yourself. You are the smallest version of yourself. You don't even remember who you are. And the minute you walk out the door, you kind of start to remember. And that's when the shame hits you because you're like we how did I not just I said it to my husband less than a year ago I had an executive say some of the most insane shit to me and I'm Alex Cooper I'm me I'm supposed literally froze yeah froze yeah so if it's happening to me now and it happened to me back then when I didn't have a voice there is no through line of this can't happen to her it doesn't matter where the fuck you are on the totem pole of power and success as a woman when those men get you in that position or there's a power imbalance you're fucked or in your case a woman i i actually i think that story isn't told enough definitely so i'm really i'm grateful and and i really respect your choice in wanting to tell that story because i think Like, just as I feel like when I meet men who have experienced this kind of power play, I think that we need to tell these stories so that we can understand that we're not alone.

43:19Like, that's the thing, right? And it's hard to tell them in a world where people don't want to fucking believe you. It's really, really hard. It doesn't make it easy for us. And when it starts to sound repetitious and it's like, oh, it's the same story again, it's like, yeah, but guess what? We're all made of the same fucking deal. We're human beings. and until you are in this fucking environment don't tell me how you're going to behave because I will not let a motherfucker fuck with me any any day of the week like step up but when somebody catches you off guard like that you know I don't like want to get emotional about it but I think it's the fact that it's in an instant within seconds somebody is telling you your value and they're telling you you're not really that valuable because guess what i was never going to get a part that night and i knew that as soon as i left like when i was driving up laurel canyon i knew i wasn't there because i had some value that i was going to bring to this man's movie i was there for one thing i was only valued for one thing that was it so when somebody does that to you you will fucking freeze no matter who you are you will fucking freeze and the conversation you also brought up of why did it take you so long right i had experienced some people being like oh 10 years it took you 10 years now that you have this platform now all of a sudden you want to talk about it and it's like yeah 10 years yes because like you just said when you're driving up laurel and you're leaving that moment yeah and how quickly you realize your worth and who you are and you're mad at yourself it starts to almost seep into every single decision and interaction you go forward having in that industry whether or in your relationships whatever it seeps into so yes it took me that long because i had to repair what that person broke in me and i had to find a way back and it still fucking hurts and i still feel uncomfortable and I still cry about it.

45:23I'm not there's no closure, but there's a little bit of a semblance of healing. But yeah, it took 10 fucking years. And sometimes people are going to live the rest of their lives and never get to feel any bit of healing. So like there is no timeline. There's also the complication of. I feel when I watch your documentary, how much you love playing soccer. Someone's taking something away from you that you love so much. So there's that fear on top of it right like i remember i had this constant kind of worry for myself like i was like if i don't make this work like the alternative is just so fucking dark like i don't want to have this other life and so that was like the added thing on top of it was like they're fucking with something that you really love so it makes it even harder it makes it more complicated that's their power yes That's their power over you.

46:16That's the why didn't you speak up? But most of these women are sitting there and like, this is my job. This is what I it's so complicated. So I think the takeaway for any woman listening is also just like we see you. There is no answer. But and we're not sitting here saying because of our experiences, you should do this. You're probably not. And we understand. And we need to be a community that can support each other. We can stand together. Truly. And fuck those fuckers. fuck those pieces of fucking shit fuck those fuckers fuck you um what have you learned that's the beginning of your career what have you then learned about your own strength through this crazy time in the industry that you've had i feel fortunate that my on that i think i i don't mean this in like a feel sorry for me way, but I feel like I had a hard childhood.

47:15I think it set me up for an industry that's hard. I'm hoping that it can become less hard. I'm working. I'm trying to be part of solving the problem. But I think it was the thing that helped me. It kind of set me up in a way where I was so the fish out of water. Like, you don't understand. Like, if you look at a map, Yeah. That's where I was. I'd never been on a plane. I'd never left South Africa. It was so insane to be that kind of a fish out of water. But the core of my experience as a child and being a survivor really, really helped me. It just really helped me to kind of I in this is not I'm not I'm not prescribing this to anybody because I don't want this for my own daughters, but I could suck it up.

48:09in though coming from a situation where you weren't really privy to the information about hollywood you had a really rough childhood then you get here like did you ever get to a point where you felt like you could lean in and be proud of your success or have you or what is your relationship to success like have you had like an i made it moment you're like this is when I got that$75 ,000 I was like I'm done um I have had many moments like that because I think I always you know I think what happens when you have when you experience death at a young age this is I'm not speaking for everybody but for me it um it had it made me hyper aware of time.

48:58And I also think that growing up in South Africa, at the time that I did when AIDS just ravaged my country in a way, it brought it to its knees. As a woman, you just couldn't help but feel like you were going to die of AIDS. That's just what it was like. I had this constant fear every time I had sex with somebody. I was like, I have AIDS. I would go and get tested. And so I had this constant feeling of time running out. So when good shit came my way, I really felt it. But I also felt this thing kind of chasing me like time's going to run out, time's going to run out, time's going to run out. You got to get it all in.

49:37You got to pack it all in. You got to get it done, which is a horrible way to go through your 20s. So I've had great success and I've had a ton of great opportunities come my way. I've always said this. I really believe this. It is not just about talent. There are people out there that I know that are way surpass my talent that will never have the opportunities that I had to showcase them. These are all things that I'm so aware of. So I try to... It's gotten better now that I'm older, for sure. I can definitely sit in a moment. I don't feel like I have to make a movie every five seconds. I feel like I have other things that I kind of gauge my success at.

50:29It's not just work-related. But I also, listen, after you win an Oscar, there's a part of you that can go, oh, shit, what do I do now? What am I stepping up to now? Everything's going to be shit after this. and then after you realize like yeah it's probably gonna be shit you just go like well the fuck that then then i'm just gonna fucking make movies that i want to make like i got an oscar bitch like i got nothing else to prove so let me just fucking make shit that i want to make so it's great it's very freeing something i think a lot of people obviously respect you for is the way that you have transformed yourself from for so many roles like you've gone bald you've gained 50 pounds like you've you've gone bald sounds like it was i was like that was a shaved head bitch like we don't have to go that far you've gone bald you know what i mean well you were bald you shaved your head there's a buzz and there's bald like let's just gone bald you're like i buzzed my hair yeah but you know what i mean like you've really taken things to the extreme how when you were doing those things within your career did it affect your confidence or did it not no i found it very freeing i think that there's it's much easier for me to kind of lose myself uh when i'm working to really kind of be a good actor like i if i look in the mirror and i see charlise i'm like oh like this is just all feeling like now i'm just feeling like i'm being like a fake version of myself i don't know there's something for me maybe it's because i come from the world of dance, there is a real appreciation for costume and music and this kind of vibe that you have to set to this world that you're creating.

52:24And I don't know how to work without that. I am always in awe of actors who can just, Philip Seymour Hoffman, just be Philip Seymour Hoffman and be fucking amazing in every movie, but that's not who I am. I really rely on finding a character from the outside in almost sometimes let's talk about your dating life oh here we go okay hard pivot let's swerve um okay so when you were bald so when you i literally let's say so now that you're not bald anymore um okay so obviously you we spoke about it earlier you've been outspoken about never wanting to probably get married yeah and once you kind of accepted that Like, how has that impacted your dating life, knowing that you're not looking for marriage with men?

53:13And how has it affected them with you? Well, I think there's a mis—like, okay, let me just be clear. Marriage is a long-term commitment. And I think I want long-term commitment. I just don't need to get married. So I just want to clarify that.

53:35I will tell you in all honesty and the work that I've done on myself I think a lot of that also has to do with the fact that I have a tremendous fear of not being able to get out of something and that's again me just understanding me and now obviously by California laws after 7 years you're in a fucking marriage whether you walk down the aisle and sign the piece of paper it's 50-50 bitch Like, let's just be clear. So my semantics is like crazy. But if I were to find a relationship, I would think of it as something that I'm aiming for for long term. I've never been somebody that really wants to like jump from one thing to another.

54:21From the time that I was in relationships, I was in one relationship after another relationship after another relationship. and so when I earlier said I'm having sex now for the first time like I never had before is because I'm not in relationships and it's not because I'm not I don't want to be in relationships but I'm seeing things for what they are right I'm not trying to force a circle into a square or whatever the fucking American saying is the peg and the hole and the I can never say it right but that was right no it's a but I when I meet somebody I can I can see where it's gonna go pretty quickly.

54:58What is relationship you like versus single you? So this is what we were talking about earlier. Like I am ashamed of being a person in a relation or that I used to be, I should speak now. I've done a lot of work, but I used to be someone in relationships that would lose herself. And again, it's that thing, you, like you're such a fucking power bitch. Like you're a baller. Like why that couldn't be you. But it goes back to how I looked girls who were so I've never really had a lot of practice and just being confident and like saying I've always felt like I've had to like protect other people so much that that's that codependency has just remained in my relationships so I used to be a person that would watch herself would also attract narcissists, men who wanted me to kind of treat them that way.

55:56And if I didn't, there was a lot of conflict and I actually don't like conflict. Yet again, something people are always surprised. I don't like conflict, but when I feel like I'm being... If I feel like I have to choose between conflict or just placating, then I will placate because I don't want the conflict. But when you're in those type of relationships that you've lost yourself, how have you pulled yourself out? Friends. Yeah. Great friends. Like, now I'm going to cry. Just great girlfriends.

56:32Yeah, because I think sometimes you can't see when you're in it. At all. And you need a friend that doesn't hit you over the head because you won't leave until you can see it for yourself. And a good girlfriend knows that. And so they support you while you're in the darkness because that's all you have. Like you need that support. And I've had I've put some girlfriends through fucking hell. So, yeah, I love that the shows for women fucking girlfriends. You need good girlfriends. But I think that the biggest also point that I want to highlight that you just said is like there's a difference between being a really good girlfriend.

57:15and then when someone's in a really unhealthy relationship making them feel shame about it and being like we can't fucking do this again we can't you're an idiot what are you doing yeah you then pull away and if anything you lean more towards the person you're in the relationship with and we've all been there if you have one of those great friends and i've had it with my friend where i was in a horrible situation and then when you give them a light opening because you're really looking for them to pull you out and they're like okay let's just let's talk about it Yeah. Like and then they slowly pull you and then you're out.

57:48But it takes you opening even like a crack in the door. Yeah. Because if you don't want to hear it, it's like the same thing like we were saying earlier with therapy. You can't fucking force someone to go to therapy. They're going to sit there with their. Yeah. They're like, I'm not going to listen to you. They have to be ready. And the only way they're going to come to you, though, as a friend is if you've been there with them. And I know it's hard as a friend. it's there's always so hard that's the thing i think that makes me emotional because it's the patience and it must it's so hard when someone you love so much is just constantly hitting their head on the same wall and all you want to do is to remove them from the situation and you know that you can't and you have to like walk this fine line those those yeah i i have i I don't know what I did in a past life.

58:37I really do not what I did in a past life, but I... Fuck me. I have been blessed with really, really good people in my life. That's half the battle. I'm a lucky bitch.

59:08When you're having these like fun little new romance moments that you're in your era of not dating, but you're getting to have good sex. Yeah. How are we? How are we meeting these men? Are they men in the industry? Do you not want a man in the industry? No, my God. No, no, no. I have zero interest. And again, like I say these things, you know, in a very glib way. But I don't think that dating somebody in my industry is a smart thing. I agree. Yeah, it's not. It's everything I have to. And I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm not saying that it's that binary. I just think that in general, it's not a good thing for me.

59:50So how are you meeting these people? Are you on the apps? Are you out dating? I am on the apps, but I don't use the apps. I am. I have a few friends that are very, very good. And one of them I know is listening to this right now, who always is like, okay, you need to come here right now and you need to meet this person. And I'm very grateful for her. You know who you are. And I have not taken, I have not been brave enough on a lot of her offers, but recently I have. And it has paid off tremendously. Seriously. And so, yes, my dear friend Amanda out there, when she says like, you need to just would be in fucking Paris.

1:00:30Be like, you just need to fucking like come and say hi to this guy right now. So fun. And yeah. And then it totally pays off. And I'm like, yeah, I need to do that more often, honestly, because the apps are just horrible. It's hard. No, it's not hard. It's a fucking it's a clown show. I'm sorry guys but please like no no like I need like honestly not because I want to date you but because I want to help you no burning man photos no photos of you with other women like I don't care I don't want to know that you have girlfriends and I don't want you shooting a fucking selfie in your closet of your hand in a jean pocket I don't I'm sorry I don't want to see you looking at yourself in a mirror that way it makes my vagina close i just can't and don't tell me you're a ceo because you're not like i'm sorry of what of some business you can't explain to me that i'm none of my friends can understand like no and then no you don't live in this apartment if you're no you do not have a business stop you're a fucking joke you know i get like i get wet when you just tell me who you are like don't be pretentious i'm sorry picturing you on the fucking apps with your girlfriends over like wine one night being like let's just open this shit up well by the way that's how it started i was like drunk enough to have a girlfriend be like let's just fucking do it i was like yeah let's do it and that's how i ended up on this fucking app listen i could take myself off the app but i am like secretly fucking enjoying the joke it's great it's the joke i'm sorry i'm not i'm not trying to be mean no it's okay i'm not trying to be mean but like i'm trying to like help this is like think of this as like help as i'm a 50 ass year old woman telling you don't do it girls don't like it they don't fucking like it it's so true yeah the hand in the jean in no i can't i just can't i just can't i'm sorry the ceo is also crazy and he like works for his dad yeah yeah he works for his dad um okay how do we feel about sex on the first date well so i like what do you consider what do you consider a date oh are you going on dates yeah but i like i feel like when you like there's certain circumstances where you meet somebody at a party and yeah you have sex and then that's it you know that's what it is you're not thinking you're gonna marry this person that's fair yeah are you down for one night stand yes I don't have many of them I sound I'm sitting here sounding like I do so when I do I'm like oh fuck yeah I should have done this in my 20s I was married from the time that I was like having sex to the time that I had my last relationship.

1:03:25Then I had children. Who has fucking time for dates and shaving and waxing and makeup? And like, I've got two children that have to go to school. Then I like, I got it. Like this shit's on a time. Like we got, do you need me to send you a call time? I'm obsessed. And it's this, you've got two hours. Like what's happening? Cause like, I need to know. We have, do you have any sex tip for the girls? Sex tip? Like, what does that mean? like what does that mean like how to have good sex how to what have an organ anything anything that like you think of girls could just like you're hot you're having good sex okay you're like I almost choked um I am the last person to ask I'm like sounding very cocky here but I think it's because I have found this freedom in my 40s where I'm like oh my god so I just want to say this in perspective.

1:04:16I've probably had three one night stands in my entire life. Okay. But I did just recently fuck a 26 year old and it was really fucking amazing. Fuck yes. And I've never done that. And I was like, Oh, this is great. Okay. Let me just say that 26 year old is the luckiest fucking man walking on this goddamn planet. He's walking different today, knowing. Oh my God. He Thank you. No, he is. He is. I will just say this. Like, I wish that this goes back to, I think this is kind of like a thread throughout our conversation. Women who come across as confident, women who come across as like outspoken, ones that wouldn't speak up for themselves, tend to also be in bed people who want to please males.

1:05:05Like, and I have found this in my experiences with talking to other women about this. isn't it strange like we should be the ones that are like fuck you like i'm gonna have an orgasm and yet i my whole life was so concerned about same the same same okay oh my god so my advice would be this don't fucking do that for two reasons you're gonna have better orgasms and guess what your your man's gonna like that they're gonna have such a better time too yes it's so true it's really hard I think back to my 20s and I and in college like I was so thinking I was doing the right thing and when you get the feedback of how great it was and then you're walking away feeling great but then you're also like yeah I don't know if I've even had an orgasm in my life before like this is kind of yeah is this what it's supposed to do and be and what and then the minute and and it takes reps like sometimes it just takes you like getting because no man is like unless he's the most amazing man in the world which go find him but no not gonna happen it's all all these men it's about them and they're not actually being like i know it takes you longer than my fucking dick just getting off in two seconds so it's like it's a process to you advocating for yourself in the bedroom being like yes hold on and actually then speaking up but it takes time but i agree once you hit that part of your life where it's not just like oh i'll just like do it and then like he'll get off and like i'm like faking it yeah your life changes and practice helps you love to practice and then you'll figure it out yeah that's good advice see yeah yeah in the safe way please okay yeah yeah yeah please please for the love of god okay what is the biggest dating disaster you've ever had oh my god i i i had a guy once asked me to make out with his nose which was really really probably one of the most bizarre asks ever yes in a very like like he was getting off on it um that was really gross um i would say aside from that nobody's ever asked me to do something that i was like whoa that's really fucking weird like i guess i'm i like weird shit like i'm not like thrown by weird shit like the nose thing was the weirdest thing that that'll do it yeah but i'm not like thrown easily so that's why i think i'm kind of like i'm like oh that sounds well let's see what happens let's give it a try yeah okay we're gonna play a game I'm having the best time.

1:07:28Okay, you are. We are crying and we are laughing and we are choking. I'm not never going to get over the bald comment. That, jail for me. Okay. All right. I'm going to go through some dating scenarios and I want your opinion. Are you in or are you out? Wow. Okay. Okay. He tells you he loves you after one month. That's usually what I would do. Charlize. That's like a Charlize move. Oh, my God. This is like a constant joke between me and my friends. This is how unhealthy I am. Like, I just will tell you I love you in a heartbeat. Like, I've never understood this conversation. Like, have you ever been in love?

1:08:06I'm like, motherfucker, I'm in love all the time. Like, while I'm fucking you, I'll tell you I love you. And for a long time, I was like, this is not healthy. And then I just went, you know, this is who I am. Like, honestly, like, I'm not going to beat myself up over this anymore. So I'm going to say that's okay. I don't know if I want to hear it from a guy though. Fair. So fair. I feel like again, it's like the photo, the selfie, like no. Like calm down. Yeah. Let me be the one that's like, I think I love you. Yeah. Yeah. And make me chase you just a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like God, don't be silly.

1:08:39Can you believe it? I'm in love with you. Then you're literally at home being like, oh my God, I can't believe he believes that. Anyways. But maybe I am. How quickly do you actually think you know if you're in love with someone? I, in all seriousness, I feel like I have the ability to go there pretty easily for someone who is as like, have been spent. So I think maybe it is because I've been so protective of my life and have to protect so many things in my life that there is. And it's maybe why acting is, feels safe to me. I have the ability to kind of like go into that kind of like reckless, vulnerable place.

1:09:21It's beautiful. Easily. Yes. Have you ever had a guy tell you that he loved you and you were not on the same page? Yes. Yes. Yes. And do you just let them down easy or? I am going to be honest with you. I'm not good at letting people off the hook easily. Do you say it back? No, I don't say it back, but I don't know how to like I will pretend and then I'll probably ghost like I'm not. I know it's really terrible and I have to work on that. I love it. But after that, I just don't know. Like it's it's part of me is like I don't have I don't know. I like it's a lot of time to get into like the softness of all of this.

1:09:59And sometimes I just think it's easier to just be like, let's just let's just not. Yeah, let's not because I don't love you. Yeah. And it's easy for me to tell people I love them. So if I can't say it back, you're really a fucking loser. There's a big problem here. Like it's not gonna happen. shit okay you caught him going through your phone no i don't like stuff like that i really caught someone listen i when most of my dating and serious relationships happened there were no iphone she's like no iphone gang over here yeah we didn't have that problem we didn't have i i mean like isn't love yeah but i don't like stuff like that even my kids like my kids find it really hard that i'm like i don't want to go through your phone i want to be able to trust you Yeah.

1:10:43Yeah. Have you ever been cheated on? Yes. How did you find out? I found out after not while I was in the relationship, but I always felt it like, you know, again, it's that little voice. Yeah. But it's actually it wasn't worse for me because part of me was like that wasn't the reason why I broke up with the person. and also I don't think I was with like I don't think it was constant all the way through I think it was like towards the end or it was like somebody who thought like a blowjob wasn't cheating like shit like that you know but I classic them not thinking of blowjob yeah just the classic white stuff of men like that doesn't count oh yeah no you getting your dick because I did not count for sure.

1:11:27No, not at all. No, totally fine. Yes, 100%. Did you ever confront him about it or no? You just let it go? No, because most of the time I found out afterwards. And then by then I was like, I couldn't give two fucks. Okay, he hates cursing and asks you to stop saying fuck. Impossible. Absolutely. If I can't do that in front of my children, do you really think I'm going to do that for you? Go fuck yourself. And I don't even love you here. This is before I've even told you I love you. It's true. yeah true okay what is something you'll never compromise on in a relationship now i will i i think you know i've talked about it i will not lose myself i will not make myself smaller and i will not do things that are not authentically it doesn't mean that i'm going to be selfish but i i will not make myself somebody that i'm not for you for you to feel better about being in a relationship with me i fucking love it oh thanks no no because it's like you being aware that that's your one thing we all have that right yeah like i had that for so long where it was like i you everyone knows that one thing that you're like okay this next time i've gotta stand my ground and i can't let myself do x y or z and i think that and it's like for me mine was like i really loved the games like i was like addicted to like the push and the pull and the put and i'm like drama you wanted the drama and i'm like what am i doing i'm i'm exhausted and like I want to feel safe so why am I doing this and finally why why we're still working on that I still don't fully know why you still do it no okay I am so happy you're aware of it now Matt was the first person that literally it was like a couple like a month or so in and he was like I don't know what you're doing but I have literally no interest in it so let me know if you want to continue or I'm done and I was literally like oh I'm in love with you but you obviously didn't stop it straight away no it just it took it was a concerted effort for me to recognize like I had become used to a pattern yeah and it became familiar to me and then you jump right into it into the next thing and a lot of it made me feel like if we fight then when we come back together we feel closer and it was a bad cycle I got into and then Matt was the first person that I broke that cycle for and it was like I made such different life decisions with him that I was like wow I must really love you that I'm trying this hard to like not that's amazing yeah so you know we all have our thing yeah um okay you told him right there you loved him yeah then i was like let me take my pants off fuck me and i love you all in one night let's go no game he's like this bitch is crazy you want no games no literally let's go yeah but actually that is we're getting married tonight let's go to Vegas he's like you're insane yeah um okay let's talk about your new movie the old guard 2 yeah what does it feel like playing this character again?

1:14:19Like, is it exciting to get to do something a second time? Yes, it's challenging, but also yes, it's exciting because I've never, I've been wanting to do television for a while or like a limited series because I've never experienced having several hours to kind of build arc and explore a character. And so like my 20s, it's always felt like pack it in two hours or under two. And so this was nice, because it gave me an opportunity to kind of like go and revisit a character that I played before. And I'd never done that before. But it also makes it challenging, because then you're like, well, am I?

1:15:01What do I want to go and explore? Like, what are the themes that I or the behaviors that I didn't feel like I fully fleshed out on the first one? So then it becomes complicated in that sense, but good complicated. Okay, you're hanging out of a helicopter in the movie. Yeah. How do you even train for something like that? You don't. There's no training for that. I wanted to do something. I'm actually, I don't like risk. I like challenging myself, but I'm actually not like some wreck. Like I have kids. Like I, and even prior to that, I'm not like someone who's like, I don't give a fuck. Let's just jump off this roof and see what happens in the water.

1:15:42And I'm not one of those people, but I do like the challenge of being a producer and being able to have some power over talking about that developmental part of what is the narrative and the action, because that's where you can start to challenge yourself a little bit. And if you're making these movies, you should be asking those questions. What is the most insane stunt that you've ever done in your career? Well, that would probably be one of them. But, you know, if you hear the story behind it, it's not as crazy. It looks insane. That's why we did it. But it was explained to me by this incredible man, Fred North, who is like the guru of all helicopter stuff and movies.

1:16:29It's completely, he's like, this is really safe. No one's ever really done this. And you can do this completely practical. And that's really what I was looking for, was to do something that we didn't have to go on a stage and fake. and you know that I could have some cred and have a behind the scenes video that looked really fucking badass and I could be like yeah and that's me right there um but yeah so that's probably the craziest things but I've done hard I mean I just had elbow um surgery four weeks ago I did this movie in Australia I just wrapped it like a couple of months ago I play like a really a professional rock climber, like a free soloist, kind of like rock climber.

1:17:13And I worked with a mad director from like Iceland who just like was like, you have to climb the mountain. And I was like, holy fuck, like he's going to actually make me climb this fucking mountain. He's like, for the next three weeks, we are only shooting this mountain and you are climbing this mountain. And I fucking climbed that mountain barefoot, like no shoes. Like I, it was insane. I look at the footage now, like I go back to the dailies and I go, what the fuck? But it's amazing. It's like, you're in it and you just kind of go like, wow, it feels good to feel this strong that I can do this.

1:17:48That it picturing you barefoot climbing up and just being like, yeah. And they were like, they were making these silicone feet for me to protect my feet and stuff. And I was like, I'm from Africa. Okay. I didn't have shoes until I was 13. Like I climbed trees. I don't have and I was a dancer I have no fucking feeling in my feet okay put me in yes I'm gonna be fine you guys she's perfect for this role yeah thank god we got her here holy shit this is amazing at the end this madman of a director who's fucking brilliant and I love him he like he never gave me one compliment it was like my dad relationship all over again I was trying to please this motherfucker every single day I'd like be on the top of the mountain I'd be like Like my elbow, I couldn't feel.

1:18:32My fucking toe was broken. My ribs were. And he'd be like walking away. And I'd be like, what did he think? He's like, oh, he went home. And at the end of the film, he like pulled me and he was like, you were fucking amazing. And I was like, all right. All right. I deserve that. Yeah. I got it. Yeah. I got the approval. Thank God. Did your daughters go to the premiere last night? they did they my my youngest um likes to kind of like just ride along with me I wasn't the movie isn't right for her she's she's too young it there's too much violence in it but um she walked with me because she knew I was going to go home afterwards so she just walked she just waited for me and I said a little thank you in the in the theater and then we went home and and I was like she was like why don't we want I said no no no I'm so tired like we're gonna go home we're gonna have a girl's night and we're gonna have ice cream and we got like the ice cream out of the freezer and I had like a half a pound of ice cream and then I fell asleep.

1:19:27Like an old man, literally. Like she was like, really, this is our date? This is your premiere night? Yeah. I wish that was the headline. Like you're in this gorgeous outfit and then you get home, little does everyone know, you're like, I'm on the couch with my ice cream. Like I was shoving a Hagen-Dazs and I was like, I should walk this down to the freezer because it's going to melt. And I was like, fuck that, I'm rich. It's fine, it's a half a pound of fucking Hagen-Dazs. Like what am I worried about? So good. Do your daughters understand who you are and what you do fully? Honestly, I couldn't tell you.

1:20:02I feel like maybe. I think that they're also, they've been around it. Most of the movies that I've made since they've been around have been during the summer because I don't want to leave them. So they've been on every set that I've worked on from the time that they've been in my life. So they know that is mom's job. they obviously don't you know they they don't watch the kind of movies that i make so in their eyes i'm like some dinosaur right and so like every once in a while when i work with somebody they're like wait you know her like oh renee rap's coming on saturday like what like every once in a while i'm like yeah motherfuckers like i'm cool yeah so i last i was just driving here and my oldest daughter who's a real bitch like she does not make it easy on me one bit like she does not suffer fools easily she has never given me a compliment in my fucking life i was driving here she was at a sleepover and i called her to tell her that you know her sister was coming home and she goes oh i really like what you wore last night i almost fell off my chair I would the phone fell out of my I was like oh my god oh my god like be cool be cool be cool thanks yeah so they they play with my emotions I think it's really cute yeah it sounds like you are such an incredible mother you're a great daughter and you've had such an incredible career and you will continue to have such an incredible career and like this is why I love my job is getting to meet you I had no idea what to expect you know I mean like I didn't know like I didn't know this fucking woman that can't keep a man like this crazy bitch let's see how this bald now I understand but I didn't know you know and I think not that it was bad or good I was just like oh I'm excited to meet you yeah yeah and and in getting to speak with you it's so inspiring hearing what you've done with your career what you've done with your family I think it's such a testament to women And it's really, I hope, a message to women of like, you really can create your own path.

1:22:15Your past doesn't define you, but be aware of your childhood and any trauma you've had. And you've done such an incredible job, like making your own version of what you want your life to be, which is so inspiring for women to hear. Yeah. And I'm still trying. Of course. We're still figuring it out. Of course. Yeah. But we should definitely try for sure. Life is too short. As you enter this next gorgeous decade of your life, what are you the most excited for?

1:22:47Okay. So everyone's like talking about the celebration. You're the first person that's ever asked me like, what is this next chapter in my life, right? I think outside of what I touched upon, which is that I do think about like, because it's very real. My oldest is about to be 14. Like I will be an empty nester soon. I think about that a lot because I love my fucking kids so much that they can never know because I can't imagine my life without them. And the idea of them not being in my fucking house like scares me enough to be like, who is this sad man that I am going to fucking catch in six years and be like, you can have my whole closet.

1:23:24Just don't let me be alone in this house. Aside from thinking about that, I don't know because work feels really satisfying. I really feel so blessed and so lucky that I get to do something every single day that I love that doesn't, it doesn't feel like work. And I'm glad that I get to show my kids what that looks like to find something that you love, that when, if you're going to have a life where you don't feel like you're working but you are working hard that's a very rewarding life and not all of us get to have that so if i can continue that um and and and make sure that my kids are okay like that's gonna be okay for me i'm gonna be okay this is good to know so whenever we see you pop up with a man we're like oh the kids moved out literally oh she must be 18 oh shit oh shit she's she's miserable because the kids are gone this is just the fucker that happened to be at the coffee shop earlier that day that she's like you're moving in with me motherfucker and he's like shit i get to be with charlie starin my secret's out i just fucked myself yeah well there goes my vaginas joy like that's not happening anymore thank you alex really great no i will tell this man i love him before i know his name i will hook him so fast and you'll hook him up good closet it nice life we're doing it right exactly exactly thank you so much for coming on this was truly a pleasure you're such a good hang and it felt like i don't i forgot there were cameras like it just felt like we're having really nice girl talk i was looking forward to this because it's nice to to know you like i feel not in a weird way i'm not gonna tell you i love you come on it's nice to know a little bit about you and i'm a huge fan by the way well i'm a huge fan too so look at us woo!