Chloe Bailey: Relationship Red Flags & Redefining Success

0:00Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Sephora. From less is more days to full glam routines, everything you need for all things beauty is at Sephora. Yep, Sephora is where you will find the hottest, newest products you won't find anywhere else. The ones popping up in every Get Ready With Me. Think summery fragrances like Kayali Eden Plush Pair 23 Eau de Parfum. Next Level Makeup, the skincare that keeps you glowing like it's your full-time job. Shop the newest, hottest beauty only at Sephora. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by the United States Virgin Islands, where every moment is naturally in rhythm.

0:36Whether you're exploring the historic sites in St. Thomas, snorkeling in the crystal clear waters of St. John, or exploring the cultural twin cities of St. Croix, you'll find yourself swept away by the rhythm of the islands. So why wait? Start planning your escape today and visit usvi.com. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Stouffer's. let me tell you something when I am hungry and I am trying to figure out what to eat sometimes you can just actually become so you're angry you're like I am busy I'm hungry I'm getting hangry I'm getting angry what can I eat I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance well introducing Stouffer's dinners are not only delicious they're done in a flash serve up their classic lasagna chicken pesto or carbonara for two whatever you're craving Stouffer's is your hot delicious easy meal fantasy.

1:29When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at Stouffer's.com.

1:37What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Chloe Bailey, welcome to Call Her Daddy. I'm so happy to be here with you. I have been so excited to meet you. We, I feel like as a collective to the world, kind of became like, okay, knowing of you when you were 13 years old. Oh, yeah. That is young. Very. You're 13, you're singing covers on YouTube, you're going viral, and then casually you and your sister like have Grammy nominations underneath your belt, like casual. And then you also have a complete successful solo career. Thank you. And you're an actress and you're doing it all.

2:18So I'm excited to talk to you. I'm so happy to talk to you. Thanks for having me. Also, I realized that this is gonna come out, I think on your birthday. On my birthday. July 1st I'll be 28 like 28 how are you feeling eating it down okay is that what we're calling it yes 28 I'm even getting myself a cake that says 20 80e tell me how you're feeling I'm feeling really good like before like top of the year I was like oh I'm getting a little up there but I'm like you know what I am feeling really good I've been working my ass off and I'm like seeing the fruits of my labor but i'm also realizing what's important and what's not and what makes me the happiest and i'm feeling pretty good i'm healing i am doing self-work so this is like a birthday celebration yes yeah also i love how you're like i'm getting up there 28 is so young but i'm two years from 30 and 30 is not old i know but i'm 30 flirty and thriving i get it but we convince ourselves that we're old yeah and then you like sit with your parents or something and you're like oh I still have a long way to go I feel old when I watched like the reality tv shows like I'm 22 I'm 21 but I feel mentally 21 okay even 19 well you look perfect and no makeup I look like 16 15 people are like oh you're so kind like I was on rodillo shopping and she's like your mother raised you so well how old are you 15 I'm in high school I was like I'm 27 she goes and that it happens all the time it's so crazy how women we just it's like the understandable constant fixation on what age we are i know and then like it slowly is nice i will say i remember when i turned 30 and i was like okay actually everything i'm alive i'm breathing everything's actually feels like it's still only getting better like this is a good sign because we think it when as we're getting older we're like it'll decline but it's only like getting better yes do we have birthday party plans so i really want to be in St.

4:17Lucia for my birthday and I'm obsessed with the water. I'm a water baby. I love the ocean. I love swimming and I haven't jumped off a boat in a long time. So that's what I will be doing when this comes out. Jumping off boats. Yes. And then I'll prove pictures if I actually did it. Perfect. Okay. I know you're someone that kind of manifests. Is there anything we're manifesting for 28? Just to be a better human being. Anything that, you know, because hurt people hurt people so anything that might be in the tuck somewhere I want to get rid of that that's what I that's what I want to I also love how I feel like you're someone that when you manifest it happens because you basically manifested getting signed to Beyonce's label at a young age and it happened let me tell you I wish I had my positivity and confidence that I had when I was younger because it's true anything I put on my mood board any like I would tell because I was like number one beehive.

5:14I would tell Halle, I would tell everybody, we're going to be the first artist signed to Beyonce. And she used to say, this is how you know I'm true beehive. She used to say how she was going to sign a boy band. And I was like, no, she's going to sign us, Halle. She's going to sign us. We're going to be the first. And I would just always say that. And literally it happened. And then it happened. And then I even put like Grammys on the mood board. I put a script next to Donald Glover's face years ahead because I loved Atlanta. I put so many different things have come true from those and now as we get older we kind of get a little jaded little yes we kind of erode away little by little so of course self-doubt creeps in but if I had you know the belief that I had I'm sure a lot of things would come quicker do we still have a mood board to this day oh yes I do it more for like artistic vision okay okay aesthetic yes aesthetic like i made like six or seven for my third album that hasn't come out yet but like i already knew what i wanted it to say and so i i was with my family it was over like holiday break and i just had like 15 magazines and i was just it's nice i need to go home and make a mood board also to anyone else like go home make a mood board and like put beyonce on it oh yeah maybe just looking at her will embody like confidence yes can okay we need to go back okay you that's not the first time you met her you're three years old which is this like kind of a crazy story you're three years old it is and you played a younger version of beyonce's character in a movie so technically you met her when you were three yeah do you because i know three is so young do you have any stories that anyone has told you from that time in your life on set i faintly remember i have a pretty good memory from when i was that age which is weird tell us but for me there was one of my favorite like yellow pink sunflower dresses that's what I wore to the audition it was my very first audition so I was three when I auditioned and we shot it in July and I think it was like a couple days away past my birthday so it was like top of July that's what I remember and I remember I used to hate mints right so I started at the top of the scene and I had a little cute boyfriend on the steps at the top and I hated mints so we had to wrap them in strawberry candy for me to continue filming that I remember how disgusted I was with the mints I remember Beyonce picking me up and holding me and I remember fangirling because I love Destiny's Child.

7:37Then I remember at the wrap party because I had a little fighting temptations camera they gave everyone. I still remember it. She was dancing with me at the wrap party, picked me up, swung me around. Then I remember, sorry, now I'm five. Now I'm five. And my baby sister Hallie, she was three and my sister Sky, I think she was, how old was she at the time? 12. She even had a black backstrappy dress see I remember specific details and we went to crawl well my sister crawled and I but mainly her she started it to go see B and I think she had like this diamond dress on at the premiere and my sister's baby locks got caught in her hair and dress no her dress yes those I remember specifically and I will never forget you have a really good memory yeah so after that moment you're 10 and your sister's 8 when you guys start uploading covers to YouTube whose idea was that It was our older sister Skye's.

8:32And we were singing around Atlanta in our church dresses, at clubs, at venues, at anything we could be at. And this was around the time when Justin Bieber was popping on YouTube. I think Grace and Chance was popping off of YouTube. So Skye was like, hey, maybe you guys should post stuff on YouTube. And, you know, other little people around Atlanta were like, yeah, that'd be a good idea. We were always like, no, no. And, of course, Best Thing I Never Had came out. We were singing it around the house. we were like this is the one this was around the time where we had to burn the instrumental on a cd we had to put it in a stereo it was red and black plug it in put it in there we had the camera uh sky had to press play with her toe while she did the camera and sis and i we put on our dressiest shirts because we're showing up and showing out on youtube uh we ended up having to change it to more simpler tank tops and that is the rough imaging that you see of chloe and hallie really doing the thing the video i watched it again this morning just so i could like relive it and the videos are so precious and it's so og youtube it makes it even better like i forgot how just genuine and organic the internet used to feel it really felt like just like a home video right And then your cover of Pretty Hurts gets 23 million views on YouTube.

9:57And maybe more importantly, it gets Miss Beyonce's attention. That's crazy. What do you do? I was freaking out, jumping up and down, screaming. We get a response. They were like, bet. So maybe it took about a month. We ended up seeing Bea in a warehouse. Sis and I, it was dark. I think she was shooting some commercial. It was dark. She was in this white jumpsuit, looked like an angel. And, you know, she saw the picture that we had when I was four. And I think she's like early 20s. And yeah, she was like, oh, my gosh. And it was like a sign. And then she told us before she wanted to sign us, Miss Tina sent her the video and was like, you need to sign these girls.

10:33And she was like, mom, I already did. It's too good. Also, like the warehouse and her looking angelic and getting to see her in her element. When you got that recognition from her, what do you think that changed within you and your sister from just being like, OK, we're singing YouTube covers to like Beyonce Knowles is acknowledging our existence, not only but also blessing us and saying you are talented. It felt like, you know, when you're younger and you don't really know all that you have to do. It felt like the I made it moment in that time. And like little did you know how much more you were going to go on to do.

11:10But in that moment, it was so validating. Yes. Okay. Then you guys casually end up opening for her Formation World Tour. Mm-hmm. That doesn't even go on people's mood board because that's not like... The stadium was on the mood board. Beyonce is selling out stadiums. How big of crowds had you even performed for prior to that? It was insane. Oh, nowhere near that. Are you kidding me? And it was the Europe leg. And it was just... I had my beat machine. It was so hot sometimes during the summer that it would overheat and it wouldn't work. and that I was triggering our songs from there. We had some tacky outfits, but we were performing our little hearts out.

11:47We did not care. Dancing, choreography, everything. Hallie had her guitar. We were giving it our all. I think also the trajectory from YouTube to then working with someone like Beyonce, like that is the dream of all dreams. Were you nervous to be in front of such like huge stadiums? Are you kidding me? I still get nervous. I have bad nerves. even to this day. But I feel like I'm an adrenaline junkie and it's kind of fun. In the moment, it feels like you're paralyzed. Like it gets so bad for me to the point of almost like wanting to throw up. Like I remember there was this BET performance I had to honor Usher and it was a good kisser.

12:30And I'm in my bedazzled jumpsuit and I'm like bent over. So there's a stool that I had to start, you know, perched up on. But before they opened up, you know, the stuff, the platforms or whatever i'm sitting there doubled over because i can't stand straight without falling over and then all of a sudden the song comes on and i'm going boom boom boom you just turn it on yes so you're just like a real performer because i also think there's something weird about youtube right it's like you're in front of a camera but there's no behind the camera and so it's similar to now like almost like people on the internet when you are getting famous on the internet no one is in the room with you and then when you actually have to go meet people and perform live there is this element that you have to retrain your body to be like oh my god i'm not just doing it for the internet anymore i'm doing it for the world and now i'm doing it in a stadium with beyonce yeah coming out after us no pressure yeah is there any advice that she gave you in those early days that has just like stuck with you throughout your career the early advice she gave us she used to call us her little aliens because we were so like different and like she would say like out of this world and she would always say you know the world won't get it yet but don't dumb yourselves down for the world let the world catch up to you and even now as i'm 27 going on 28 it's still that way with my music like i'll release it oh yeah we don't like it then months later oh this is a bop so i'm like it just just trade your ear a little bit i mean i i think also someone in her position who has gone through so many different iterations that's such an incredible bit of advice to give you of like almost just like having resilience also to just be patient yes because in our careers you want to just go go go especially as women and we feel like we have this tiny window oh yeah but it's like we have time it's so true what a concept

14:23call her daddy is brought to you by sephora from less is more days to full glam routines everything you need for all things beauty is at Sephora. Yep, Sephora is where you will find the hottest, newest products you won't find anywhere else. The ones popping up in every Get Ready With Me. Think summery fragrances like Kaoli, Eden, Plush Pair 23, Eau de Parfum, Next Level Makeup, the skincare that keeps you glowing like it's your full-time job. Shop the newest, hottest beauty only at Sephora. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Stouffer's. Let me tell you something. when I am hungry and I am trying to figure out what to eat, sometimes you can just actually become so, you're angry.

15:04You're like, I am busy, I'm hungry, I'm getting hangry, I'm getting angry, what can I eat? I need something hot and delicious and low maintenance. Well, introducing Stouffer's dinners are not only delicious, they're done in a flash. Serve up their classic lasagna, chicken pesto or carbonara for two, whatever you're craving. Stouffer's is your hot, delicious, easy meal fantasy. When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. You can see all the delicious options at stouffer's.com. You and your sister obviously have had so many milestones. I feel like in those very beginning days, you became almost like known as this unit, right?

15:42Yes. How would you describe your dynamic with Hallie? So I'm the Cancer. She's the Aries. We are like the complete opposite, yet we are just the same this is how i could describe it so we have cats who are brothers poseidon and apollo they're actual brothers and poseidon he's very demure very to himself he doesn't really like people he likes his space don't bother him apollo clingy all up in your face constant zoomies loves the cuddles everything like that so that is hallie and i and cat form Wait, wait, wait. Which one's Apollo? Me. Oh, man. You're saying you're clingy. Yeah. You want to cuddle up on your sister and like be near her.

16:24And she's like, leave me alone. Yes. I guess that is so you being like the older sister and she's younger. She's too cool. Yes. That is exactly us in cat form. They embodied our spirits. You have said in the past that you've always taken on this like motherly role and feel really protective over Hallie. Very. How has that shown up through your just like different stages of your lives and your career? It's so funny because sometimes I have to tell myself, OK, Chloe, dial it back. I think because growing up in the house ever since we were little girls, I always felt like I had to protect her. And that still hasn't gone away.

17:02and with her becoming a mother, I'm not a mom. There's a new level of life she unlocked even before I did. So I have to be like, Chloe, you all have different journeys. She is raising her child. This is not, she's not your child. So I've had to do a lot of letting go because Hallie's always been like my little doll baby and I'd always put her before myself through everything in life. And so it's like, I have to retrain myself to be like, okay, we're both our own individuals and our own adults. Let go, Chloe. That is really sweet. And I think anyone who's watching who has a sister, because I do, I feel that I'm the youngest and then my sister is the oldest.

17:50So I'm feeling that energy of like, my sister's like that to me too. And even though sometimes I'm like, oh my God, leave me alone. I actually really don't know what I would do without her because I'm like, wait, no. But it's like I don't want you there but like I know you're there and it's like a nice feeling I also remember which makes me so sad for you guys like reading you know understandably how disturbing you found it when people would try to pit you and your sister against each other which is they already try to do that to women all the time every day but to do it also to like sisters where you're like that is my blood like where are you going with this is pretty crazy yeah when was the first do you think you became aware of this?

18:30I think after... After Best Thing I Never Had came out our very first cover and we got posted on WorldStar. And you know, of course, WorldStar, lethal. Lethal. Yeah, that comment section. And I think that was the very first time. But like, the thing that people don't realize with Siss and I is that we are so different. Like, my sister, she grew up loving jazz. She still does. Jazz, neo soul, you know, the vibes. You know, she plays the guitar very boho. Me, I'm like, I love the pop, lock and drop it, the heavy drums. You hear it in my production. And that was the beauty of Chloe and Halle. That is what the beauty of Chloe and Halle is because we're bringing two different sides of ourselves.

19:13But I think people wanted to see either all of this side from both of us or all of this side from both of us. And you can never please everybody. So, I mean, of course, there are groups, like all groups. You all have your favorite or whatever, but it was, it hurt us sometimes. Like when we'd see certain comments, like Hallie and I, we'd talk to each other like, oh my gosh, is this true about me? And then she'll say, is this true about me? And we'd be like, no, it's not. And it's like, we'd have to uplift each other. I mean, even today, like they'll say, I do too much. Or like my sister does the opposite or things like that.

19:50But that's the beauty of us. were like fire and water did they ever go for it was it just like career do they ever go for your looks or your yeah i mean we're two black girls with locks in the industry it's not i mean now it's becoming more mainstream and i'm really happy to see that i really am but like it wasn't cool to be young black with short little locks like i remember sometimes being in school like it's funny there's a self-portrait of me I was four and you had to do a self-portrait and I drew myself like I had like this straight ponytail and I'm like Chloe now I can laugh at it but it's funny how we see ourselves when we look at our friends and we're like that's what I'm supposed to look like that's what I'm supposed to be like so we definitely had to pull our self-confidence from inside because it wasn't that accepted and even like when we would go on auditions when we were younger in Atlanta, our acting agents would be like, oh, you know, you might get more roles if you have regular hair.

20:49So we even invested in getting these terrible lace front, like really curly wigs. And I remember I even went to school orientation in it. They're like, oh my gosh, your locks. I said, yeah, I combed them out. Then a week later, it was first day of school. I was back with my locks and I was like, I put them back in. No, child. It's so funny, but yeah, those are different things. we went through and I remember I went through a time I think maybe 18 19 before I started really styling my locks in different ways I was like I want to get rid of my hair like I want to switch it up but then I got introduced to wrapping my locks because I won't ever dye it because it'll kind of break them off and like adding hair and things like that and I love my locks I'll never change them well first of all I'm so sorry you had to go through that because you're right like hearing that also from young kids your same age I cannot imagine being in a position where you are authentically showing up as yourself and you are being judged for something that is just who you are and something you're like wait I can't control this little children as little children that's what gets me right and then to look for a solution because had those people not gotten involved you would have just still thought I'm beautiful and I'm with my sister and when I'm in my household I feel so confident like that's the part when you're a child and you're put into those situations with other peers it starts to be this like horrible self doubt that you have and you're so critical of yourself and it takes a really long time I'm sure to then get to the point where you're like wait maybe I am okay as I am yes you don't need outer validation but it doesn't make it easy no because you're growing up thinking that your self-worth is dependent on what you can do and what you bring.

22:35Do you think though it made it easier having you and your sister be together in that situation? We clung so tight to each other and we weren't alone. Like we weren't going through the criticism, even the positivity alone. Like we were rejoicing together and we had a partner to celebrate with and even cry with. I'm also thinking too about, you know, coming up, Like you're having such success because you're naturally talented. And then I do feel like we hear about this often becoming in this industry. Everyone wants you to have a very recognizable image. Right. And you're talking about like as a young black girl, like I'm trying to figure out who I am.

23:18And then add on also being in the entertainment industry adds another level of complexity because everyone's going to try to change you regardless. So it's like, how did you? to work through the essentially dichotomy of like merging two worlds from already struggling with something and then it blowing up even more as people were like we need you to look like this we need to pose like this I think the care and the love for the art overshadowed all of that so the joy that we felt when we were creating the joy when I'd be nerding out by my computer with my beats to like four in the morning in like our garage studio the joy of listening to it back the joy of knowing that we did have fans because at this moment we're very underground like we're like two black indie girls at this moment so the joy of that the love of it that is what overpowered it all i also love what you you know were saying where you have people comparing you and this is your sister and you're like we are so different but in the best ways that's what makes us us and then eventually you do decide to go and explore a solo career was there any part of you guys that had conversations of like what will the world think because are we almost like like is this going to fuel more rumors yeah you know what i mean yeah so the funny thing is that it was never planned and and we're not broken up we're just like on a cute little hiatus yes and my sister booked the little mermaid as arielle yes she did and she had to move to london she ended up filming it for about three years because it was in the middle of covid so we had our album ungodly hour done we had the visual shot and everything but we didn't have a release date so then sis went off to london and we didn't know when we'd ever put out the project so covid happens she comes back home we get a release date so then we started doing tennis court performances and everything during covid and ungodly hour kind of took our group to the next level so it was never planned in that time to like kind of go like that but of course during the pandemic, it's hard to travel.

25:28I couldn't even visit her in London after that because of all the travel restrictions. So I'm just with my little beat machine in my bedroom, just making ideas. I'm like, you know, I'm not with my other half. So I'm like, okay, this is three years. I'm like, okay. Had that been the longest you'd been apart also? Yeah. Okay. We wouldn't even, yeah, we didn't even spend a week apart. And when she first went to London, I went out there with her for two months because she's like, Chloe, I don't think I could be without you. So I went out there and anytime she'd go to set you know with rehearsals i'd work out with her in the morning with her trainer and then i'd be in her trailer the whole day while she was rehearsing and i'd just be making beats in the trailer until it's time for her to come and we go home yeah and the days i didn't go i would do soul cycle but that was like maybe once or twice but i would always go to set with her just so she knew i was there when she'd come in for lunch things like that you are such a ride or die that's when the idea came out like okay i'm making all these ideas maybe i should just put it out because i'm just like like building and accumulating all this music throughout three years so this opportunity for this like um it was juneteenth actually juneteenth is a special time for me i mean anyways come to think of it so i wanted to do a cover of feeling good by nina simone i love nina simone i always have since i was a little girl i think that's where i get like my lower tone register inspo from her and tony braxton love it so you know me with my little electronics i did it from, you know, I wanted to use my backgrounds almost like a synth.

26:55And of course, Heavy 808's got to have that. It's a little weird alternative. I turned it in and they're like, oh, you want to do this late night performance of it? I was like, sure. Yeah. We didn't have a place for the late night performance. So this would have been my first performance without my sister. I'm like, hold on, wait a minute. Now the two of us, between the two of us, I really love dancing. Like all of our ungodly hour performances and everything, because we couldn't see a choreographer, I would come up with the dance moves and I teach it to her. So we had like our little dance studio in the house.

27:23So I was like, okay, Chloe, what am I going to do? So I was like, I want to dance for this performance. So I practiced, I even sprained the left side of my neck because I wanted to really just do whatever the heck on the floor. I was like, let's just do it. Let's just go all out. And, you know, I shot the performances and we didn't really have a place for it. And they're like oh well it's gonna go uh on the juneteenth special i think it was nbc one of those like news ones i'm like because it was a little you know but at that moment it was already shot money had been spent you're like we can't i was like i'm still proud of my performance yeah it was meant for late night yeah it wasn't really meant for like daytime television the the moms in america just be like yeah but i was like you know what it's already done so it airs a huge uproar this is too sexy this that my job fully clothed but yes I was gyrating around I'm not gonna lie it's not for daytime television but you know I'm moving I was just really giving it my all so it made this huge uproar online and I'm like whoa and anytime I would post you know myself or my body or anything like that they would freak the heck out and I was like why at this moment I think I'm 21 like I'm like I don't get the big deal why everyone's freaking out so this performance freaked everyone out I was getting so much shit so much I ended up getting this beat because I was posting my beats on my Instagram at the time from Murda Beats he DM'd me yo let's make some beats together I was like bet mind you I would never answer DMs because there are a lot of creeps up in there so I'm like but he was really about the music that's how I got Metro's contact too they were really about the music so Murda had sent me about 10 beats at this time he sent me this one booty so big lord have mercy I'm like oh I like this I'm even getting chills talking about it I still remember I was in my car listening to it I turned it off because if I hear it all my mind will immediately start coming up with creative ideas and it won't shut off so if I know I like a beat I'll turn it off until I'm ready to create and I was like I really want to talk my shit on this it's talking about booty so big but I don't really know if I had the balls to write like that yet so this guy T-Ron amazing writer has written so many hits it was our first session together it was me him and my engineer he comes in and you know he's like what are you going through right now and I ended up saying you know I'm really upset because people aren't letting me be me in the body that I have like first they tell me oh she's amazing she's being restricted then they tell me oh she's showing her body too much all of this and I was like I really just want to use this song to just get my feelings out and talk my shit we wrote it that day the scratch demo then i ended up uh actually recutting it with just me and my engineer and i added my backgrounds and everything like that and i was like gosh darn it this feels really great i knew this was the first song i wanted to put out so all this is happening all while my sister is in london you see the little mermaid and you're like so did you see that daytime tv thing yes so all of this is happening in conjunction with one another.

30:39So it's not like I just went on my own. You know what I mean? What did she think about the daytime television moment? She was like, Khloe, it's great. I love it. Yes, the moves. We're on FaceTime and, you know, she had her cute little extensions, the red. And, you know, she'd always wear head scars because she couldn't show that she had the red hair because no one really knew what her look would be. She's like, oh, girl, yes, yes. Just like that. So it was really great because at that time, I'm working with Murda, I'm working with Metro, I'm working with all these heavy hitters in terms of production.

31:11I'm like, they respect my work. They respect what I do. Like, and it was my first time actually believing in myself as my own, because I didn't think I had worth or value without my sister. So even now, like, because we were like this, it's you, it's like, you know, you're special because I can look over at my sister and I know she has a phenomenal voice. I know she's beautiful but it's harder to look in the mirror and say those things to yourself yeah it's almost like you guys had each other as this crutch yes that you came up in this industry together so to remove that you're like wait what am I without her where's Hallie and it's like no no time for you both to soar and fly on your own and you're like still grabbing for each other but it's like you're getting farther away and it's like yeah go go do your thing I'm gonna do my thing and we'll meet back up later.

32:01Yeah, very scary. But what I loved about those lyrics, it was like, why do I keep bossing like I do, flossing like I do? And I was just, I was talking my shit. Like, you know, he liked my Laffy Taffy because all these guys were online talking about my body or whatever. I'm not all my body. Yes, that's a part of me, but I'm this nerd, really smart, funny girl. But yeah, I'm showing a little booty. And what about it? And what about it? Yes. So I was really, that's what it was. So I put that out on my birthday. It goes viral. Everyone's doing the challenge stuff. Booty's so big. Lord have mercy. The song isn't even out.

32:37I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Because my sister and I, we weren't mainstream. We were like indie underground girls. So I wasn't expecting much from this. Going 100 ,000, 200 ,000 videos, 300 ,000 friends. I'm like, whoa. So now everyone's like, put it out, put it out, put it out. So I put this song out through Columbia that we were assigned to, you know, in conjunction with Parkwood. And we release it, I think September 5th. And because the song was so viral, VMAs called and asked me to perform. Even before it dropped. So I'm in New Jersey rehearsing for my very first debut performance. This is crazy.

33:14For my very first debut performance. And the day the video drops, we're sitting on the ground in rehearsal. And it like had 4 million in one night. It was just everywhere. Hearing you talk about making a moment for yourself and going for something you love and like you saying like you're such a creative you hear something you're like I need to get I have a vision I want to do it but leaning into the commentary about your looks and your body I think as women it's so relatable it's like if I I'm gonna call it what it is and I want to own it because you're why do you all get to talk about it but I can't talk about it let make it make sense thank you you get to tell me oh she got a nice ass but I can't go in the mirror and go I got a nice ass so like why can you it's like everyone feels like they have ownership over women's bodies and except the one who owns it Chloe no no no we're on to something here Chloe no no no and it's it's so infuriating and so I remember because I'd written down like I remember when people called you like too sexy and they were insinuating that you're using your sexuality to force a rebrand and it's like wait a second who was the person that sexualized me in the first place all of you and so here i am now celebrating myself who i am i'm coming into my own and now it's upsetting everyone yeah i didn't know why it made such a big deal because i have i'm in this skin all my life and to be honest like we can like ourselves but it's hard to really dive into the self-love thing so for me i just i was confused i was like whoa what is happening so when that happened it was like almost taking something bad and making it good.

34:52And because of all that negativity, I got my first platinum single, my debut solo single turned platinum. Yes, you did. And that's insane because even talking about it now, that's a huge debut. And I think I have to remember that and celebrate myself in the times where I don't feel like I'm good enough. I think that is so relatable as women where we, I was talking about this with my friend the other day. I'm like, whenever one of us has a win, why do we not pause and celebrate because the mood board has always been there like if you told young chloe this story she'd be like huh excuse me no we can retire we're done that's perfect that's that's all we could have ever asked for and when you're in it it's so hard it's like what where can i go to next and we're so hard on ourselves and so the fact yes you could let's take a moment right now where it's like look at what you did in that moment from that young girl on YouTube to then having that moment with Mercy you're like it was crazy platinum and after the VMA's performance I just broke down crying on the side of the stage and that Hallie even came back from London so she was there all my family was there my god mom my god brother my younger brother we were all there.

36:12And I just broke down on the side of the stage because there were so many people who told me I couldn't do it, that I wasn't good as a solo artist. People that I knew personally would tell me that. And I just really didn't feel like I was worth much. So to know that I had that moment at the VMAs, I just literally broke down crying on the side of the stage because it was like, I got to prove it to myself that I was good enough. Chloe, that makes, I mean, there's so much that you're saying that I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes for women. And I wonder if you have any just like opinion or take now of where you're sitting and looking back on yourself like why do you think people are so uncomfortable when a woman especially a black woman is so confident in who she is as a person and her sexuality because there's too much power in that you can control people and confine them when they don't know how special they are you can keep them trapped in that box it's so true it's like there's two they don't want us to recognize our worth because once we do i saw something where people like oh my god the older women get they although they're devaluing us we actually only become more cognizant of like who we are and what we want and so they act like we're only worthy at 18 and 19 and 20 when really they know that's just the like when we're the most vulnerable and the brink of it right and so to hear you lean in to your success and your power in that moment and to see it go platinum like that's so rewarding I'm so it's so crazy to think about it's incredible thank you um in the midst of all of this yes you said that being in the spotlight for most of your life made you tie your happiness to your career and your public perception when do you think you came to that realization years ago but even more so now like i'm such a huge advocate for therapy and i say this all the time like we're taught to work out and work on our bodies and watch what we eat but our mind is a muscle just the same and we have to do that as well there might be some on habits we have to learn we might have to figure out how to squat the proper way mentally so we don't hurt ourselves uh things like that but i think because i started it so young it's like it's rewarding when you get an applause for hitting the right note it's rewarding when you bring in some money for this deal.

38:52It's rewarding, but that's not what's all that special about you. It's a great point. So do you think a couple years ago, was there a moment or was it kind of creeping up on you where you're like, why am I feeling this way? I think it creeps up on you. And even now I'm very cognizant about it. Like, I don't think that ever goes away. It's hard to unlearn something that has been your blueprint your entire life but I think when you surround people surround yourself with people who don't need a damn thing from you you realize wait

39:34you actually keep me around because you like me as a person not because of what I can do for you so for me it's very freeing and i think that's when you get closer to the self-love journey but what i can feel behind that right now when you just are getting a little emotional is it takes though realizing oh you're so a priest of those kind of people because you had the other kind of person in your life who was using you or made you feel like, oh my God, my worth is all wrapped up in what I bring to the table. And so I have to work and I have to work and I need to succeed and I need to succeed because if all this goes away, all these people will go away.

40:21And then what am I worth? Exactly. How did getting stuck into that cycle a little bit of like your career and it really getting enmeshed with your self-worth start to affect your mental health? I think when it started to affect my mental health was around when I, after the Have Mercy success, I have all these eyes on me. And I think because people were waiting on what I was going to do next. And everyone around me was like, no, we have to make sure the next one's perfect. So even though I was creating music, we waited like eight months till I put out my next single, which if I could rewind it I would have just kept the momentum going because it's hard to build it back up so I think when I actually released my first album and it didn't sell the great amount that people wanted to but it's the normal amount today it was 10k everyone was shunning me I was like oh my gosh I am I not as great as I thought or everyone thought like they thought I be this big thing so it was around the same time the best thing that my manager shermay could have done was book a tour for me a week after the album came out and that was at that time it was kind of unheard of no one goes on tour to tour an album nobody knows so as i'm on tour as i'm in press interviews they're like oh how do you feel about the low selling numbers all this stuff blah blah but then the first night everyone knows the song the song's word for word i'm like hold on meet and greets the whole tour was sold out so I'm like wait I'm confused let's see this online then I see this in real life what's happening and I think it was really getting to me I think it was the show before Philly and I always get nervous before every performance this specific show I think it had gotten to me and I was just like you know what and that show I had no nerves it was like I was watching it happen in front of me in the audience and I was watching my body and my arms with my legs and seeing everything happening in front of me but I wasn't there and I hope she doesn't mind me saying this um after that I go backstage uh Charmaine was my manager I call her mommy because she's my god mom she takes me to the dressing room in the back I think it was like two of like the glam team were back there she goes looks at me serious she goes Chloe if I ever see you like that again I'm gonna fuck you up don't ever let no motherfuckers take your joy from you something that God gave you that gift if I ever see you like that again so from that day she would always be at the front of the stage because I was just not there I just was like okay I don't feel that strong enough mentally to give off to perform songs that people say oh didn't feel well whatever blah blah so that's when I attached it to my self-worth but then I was like wait and after that it marked from Philly to the rest of the tour I was on cloud nine and it didn't really matter first of all thank you for sharing that because I think something that is really difficult to talk about especially with social media these days is what does success actually look like and when we look at social media we are inundated with they got the job they sold they went platinum Or like people see you in public and they go, what are you up to?

43:41Yes. What are you up to? Exactly. Like living, trying to be like, get my mental health together. Like leave me alone. But it's, there's so much that we are seeing constantly of people's wins that when you are having what you would consider like, oh, I actually think this would have been good. But I guess by that standard, it's not great. And therefore it's complete failure. like we've lost the barometer I genuinely believe of like what success actually looks like for ourselves and the fact that like you're on stage you are on tour you are performing that seems very successful to me but understandably you're like oh my god but everyone had this idea of what I was supposed to be doing yes but that wasn't your path at that moment and like and this is still a win And I look back at videos and I'm like, oh, my God, I missed Tor.