Elizabeth Banks: How Do I Know If He’s My Soulmate? (FBF)

0:02What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with call her daddy. Elizabeth Banks, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you. Hi, Alex. You are an actress, writer, producer, director. You've starred in movies such as The Hunger Games, 40-Year-Old Virgin, one of my personal favorites, Pitch Perfect, another one of my personal favorites, and many more. And you're in the wine business. Yes, I am. Your team reached out and was like, are you down to drink? And I was like, am I down to drink? Give me an excuse to drink during the day on a Wednesday. day I'm game I'm ready so we have your wine here yes I it's it's called Archer Roos what are you starting with I started with the Sablanc okay so and then I think we have this is the Malbec yeah yeah so I like the Malbec chilled it's amazing would you consider yourself a sommelier no in fact one of the reasons I liked that this Archer Roos was canned wine was that I kind of feel a little wine shamed you know what I mean I'm a grown ass woman but like I don't know I don't why I can't learn everything about wine it's just not my thing right but I also know what I like and okay this is I mean I love a sommelier who's like very cool and chill and telling me what's good and like I love that vibe but I really when I go to shop for wine I'm like I don't know see this is what i didn't know first of all cheers cheers let's have a taste le hayam oh it's good it's yummy i forget there's something about drinking wine in a can that's like bringing me back to life you're on the beach i'm on the in your mind i'm already on the beach i'm like in italy yes yes i'm in marbella spain my feet are in the sand

2:08growing up before you were like of age at 21 what what was your parents relationship to allowing or not allowing you to drink uh i my high school graduation my dad like bought a you know a couple cases of beer he was like you can't when you're 18 like you can't this is weird but he was like in the navy at 18 you know what I mean okay so they were pretty chill they were pretty chill yeah I was a bit of a goody two-shoes in high school so I was somewhat weirdly responsible well I feel like because we're gonna get that because I know you went to an ivy league school so I was wondering like did you spend all of your high school time like preparing to try to get to college or did it like come naturally for you?

2:50I loved school. I was I'm I love learning. And so school is not like overly stressful for me. To me, it was about getting out of my small town. And I super grateful for where I grew up. I love Pittsfield, Mass shout out Western Massachusetts. But I had city blood from birth and I just knew I was meant to go live in a city somewhere. Somehow I was not meant to like party with kegs in the woods while it was on me you know off of george's farm road or whatever so to me the whole situation in high school was about getting like what's the best school i can get into how can i get out of here how can i make real money in my life how can i you know that was i grew up working class and my parents wanted more for me and i wanted more for me totally i was ambitious i i can relate to that because i'm from pennsylvania yeah what was the most challenging aspect of adjusting to going to a school like UPenn?

3:46It was passing, frankly, as somebody who like belonged there. They have programs now for this in college, which they didn't have when I was there, which is basically like socioeconomically to be on scholarship and grants and all that, which is how I went to Penn. I worked the entire time. I never went on spring break. I never went anywhere. I stayed at school and worked I did not go I worked all summers so that was the part of it that for me you you know I was there living and we're and hanging out with and going to class with people who just never have to worry about that stuff you know they were not worried about a winter coat with a hole in it and I was like fuck my winter coat has a hole in it this is my coat and let me sew this myself like you know like oh I had to miss shifts because I had to you know study I I literally was choosing between like a shift at work or studying for a test and it's like all right well I gotta maintain this grade point average so I can stay at this school and so okay now I've missed a shift so now we're not gonna we're gonna have bagels this week at every meal you know but when you look back like do you feel like that also propelled you to a different level for yourself I I don't you look it's just it was my experience yeah I really only try to speak for myself at this point you know I that was my experience I had to work a lot I'd missed out on a lot of things but of course it makes you a person who is respectful of the dignity of work like like true you know I see I was a chambermaid in a bed and breakfast and like don't flush condoms down toilets assholes stop it such a good specific like PSA we don't need the condoms in the toilet don't that's not where they go they don't go down there that's not what you do right and it's people like me that have to clean that up so you know I I just have like that mentality now of of really appreciating work you know the the dignity of work and people just doing their job so they can like go home to their families like you know when did you realize you wanted to be an actress it was pretty late I it's just not something anybody where I'm from dreams about and I loved doing it it I it provided me a real sense of pride and self-worth and I felt good at And I really liked entertaining people.

6:25And I made people laugh early in my career. And it just was very addicting. That all being said, I did not go to school to be an actor at all. The path was like, I couldn't move at 22 to New York and become an actor. Because I had no idea how to do that. Of course. And so instead, I just kept going to school. Because I knew how to do that. you're like this I know this I can figure out and honestly it worked out really well for me I did my showcase and I got an agent and I got offers and I was like in a commercial like a month later and then that was that and I started paying off my student loans and here I am I love that story just because I feel like something I've been talking about recently is like a lot of people will write in being like I feel like I'm on campus and everyone knows like what they want to major in and what do they want to do for a living and I'm like I have no fucking idea like I am like just as lost as the person to so I think it's nice to sometimes hear people be like yeah I didn't like grow up and from like five was like I'm gonna be an actress like and it's totally fine if that's what you are like envisioning for yourself but it is nice to hear sometimes people who are so successful like you are to be like yeah no I didn't have it all figured out until like after college almost I started to like lean into like what do I want to do yeah which I appreciate you I mean you're a podcaster like one of the best how did you come to this I had literally no idea I wanted to podcast I wanted to do like when you're in college are you like this is gonna be my job you know what I mean are you kidding me I didn't even know podcasting was a thing right I would consider it like radio and I never wanted to be like a radio personality I if anything I wanted to produce and like direct tv or film yeah and then it just like came about I think sometimes it comes off like we've all got our shit together.

8:19It's not the case. It's really not. And I think it's helpful. I loved doing it. I've always loved doing it. But I did not consider it a realistic dream to have. You know, it just was my mindset at the time was not big enough. And now looking back and I tell people this all the time, like dream bigger, dream bigger, dream bigger, retreat, like go like, yeah, you might not happen tomorrow. but like put put a put something on the map of your life like farther out and like if you work towards it you can probably do it I completely agree or you're gonna get some version of it that yes you're gonna get a version of it that's exactly right you're you're at least gonna you don't have to know exactly what you want to do I I tell it's interesting I have a young my young sons and when you if you ask them right now um what do you want to be when you grow up they're like I'm 11 like I you know I don't they don't have a dream job right they have a dream life and I we talk about this a lot like what does that look like you know and my son will say because he's very wise I hope I'm doing a job that I enjoy and I go yeah that would be nice and I hope I have enough time to spend with my family yeah that would be good and um and I hope I stay connected to the friends I'm making right now and I'm like yeah I think that I think that's a really good recipe for a happy life I think your son is wiser than most of us I know that actually is so that's it no that's so cute because I feel like when you're that young sometimes we need to like listen to the youth because they're like so unscathed by the world yeah that's right this is what we should and we're like shit that is what we should be doing but I also I'm I'm trying to teach him not to dream about work and I think about that for me like in high school when you asked about that it it was the vision of my life was like I'm living in a city do you know what I mean like I make enough money that I don't worry about paying the bills that was the dream yes that was what I was talking thinking about you know that's what I was putting on the map I think that's such a good bit of advice it's like you don't have to have the exact thing in mind but have at least one thing that you know you want for yourself and be employable okay you can't make money if you don't create employability for yourself and the more specific you can be, the more money you can make in life.

10:39I truly think there's actually a simple formula to this. So the more specialized you get, that's how you end up actually earning. But in the beginning, just think about what makes me attractive to employers. What brings the money to people? And it's like broad mindset. like I can do anything, be confident, you know, think work, work hard. Any job you're doing, like when I was cleaning those toilets in the bed and breakfast, you better believe they were spotless, you know, take pride in what you're doing, no matter what it is. Learn that skill set early. Don't be like, oh, I got to do this. Guess what?

11:21You you're there. You took the job. You're cashing the check. Show up. It's such good advice. And I think it's like standing out is something I think like I always was like mom stop making me like put this on my resume or write this and she's like I promise you like and now that I would be hiring people I now see it I'm like people just write in these generic things and I'm like do something wild to stand out that's my piece of advice is like just send something that maybe you think is like even if it's a little ballsy you're gonna catch people's attention let's talk about a little bit of romance okay you met your husband yes the first night of college.

11:58Yes. What do you remember about that night? Can you explain to us what happened? The main thing I remember is that he was not that interested in me. He would say otherwise, but he was, he, he was pursuing me a little bit. I was pursuing him for sure. And, um, and he was also pursuing this really cute, uh, girl named Kate. I can say girl. Cause we were 18 at the time who was like a nursing student, had a twin sister and they were super cute and she had like a sexy deep voice I remember Kate hi Kate if you're out there listening um anyway he I met so I went to school I knew one person from school I hope she's listening to and her brother her name was Penny Feldstein I met her in Massachusetts before I went to Penn which is in Philadelphia so I show up in Philadelphia on campus and she had said my brother goes to the school so when you get there call me because he'll like take us around whatever so I get there I call Penny and she's like, my brother's fraternity is having a party tonight.

13:00So I went to her room and we walked up to the frat house together. I met her brother, Mark Feldstein. And the second person I met was my husband. He happened to be standing with my now husband. Yeah. And the vibes were like chill, but he wasn't like obsessed. The vibes were chill. Neither one of us. We were coy. You know, it was like September 6th. I know exactly when it was. But September 6th, it was like 100 degrees still. in Philly. So everyone was like, I was in like cut off jean shorts. I mean, we were all half naked and he was really cut. He had a really great body and he was tan because it was the end of summer.

13:36Right. Everyone was looking great. Wow. It was shiny, happy people everywhere. And it was like college. I was like, hell yeah, I'm here. But it's such a good story. And I'm sure it's like you're asked about it probably in every interview because like it is such like a cute way to now be like 30 years later I'm still married to the same man but it's a very cute story how quickly did things like progress between the two of you you're pretty quickly we got lucky you know I I'm not like a I believe in fate person particularly but I do think you know it's almost like when you if you're you see something you you're made aware of something and suddenly like you see it everywhere I was made aware of him and then I kind of felt like I saw him everywhere for the next few days so I met him we hung out for you know not that long that night I tried to give him my number he was like I don't have a phone which was true he just hadn't hooked up his phone yet but I was like if you don't want my number dude like you can just say so don't pretend you have like no ability to ever figure out how to call me like like you like there's there are phones in the world you might not have you can find a phone if you care so that was a fun laugh and he didn't call me because he didn't take he didn't have a phone he was like oh so he can't um and then the next night I saw him again with like a totally different group of people and then he started rushing a guy who lived on my floor because he was older than me and um so I happened to literally like walked in my hallway and he was standing there and so you know it's just like little things where I was like wait why do we keep seeing each other and we were had a great energy between us from jump we were very like attracted to each other and then he asked me out on a date and we went on like the greatest date of my life um you know we were underage and we went to a jazz club in philadelphia like i'm from i'm from like a little town we have like three bars like and they're all they're all like roadhouses basically um so going to a fancy jazz club this woman sang, I remember she sang all the classics and sang, you know, what a wonderful world and like walked through the room with the microphone and sang at our table.

15:50And I, we drank beautiful old fashions out of beautiful crystal glasses. And then he paid, he said to the taxi driver, he's like, I just need two back. And I was like, Oh my God, he knows how to like tip. he's so fancy i was blown away you're like okay i guess we can date now because you know how to work it it's gonna be great and then the rest is history and we're still here yeah

16:33having a relationship in college how what was like the best part of that and the worst part of that because there can be pros and cons to having it like immediately starting freshman year and through. I mean, the big pro is you don't need to muck around trying to figure out who the fuck, what you're doing, who cares about you, what you, oh my God, I can't even imagine now with the texting and the ghosting and the, oh my God, it's so fucked. It's not great. It's not good. The worst. I had a great relationship in high school too, so that really prepared me. I had a great boyfriend and you know I went to college being like I'm here I wanted to get laid and like sow my oats and have fun that was really it and I happened to meet I turns out I'm a serial monogamist I didn't know I didn't realize high school to college I just honed in on one and that was it stayed together for 30 years but then and where was he from Portland Oregon okay so you guys graduate yeah I think there's so many people that write into me and are like I'm graduating college I have a partner right what the hell do we do we have to move to different states or should we stay together like what happened with that dynamic and how did you guys make it work I mean he made it work honestly he made really uh he made decisions that were about us staying together I mean we both did eventually do that but I you know he was not he left school not really knowing what he wanted to do with his life.

18:01Again, very common, you know, took some great jobs and had a lot of great opportunities, but I was not living his passion. Yeah. So like we both did things that were for us, you know, we didn't try to like merge our lives when we were 23. Like that's crazy. You don't need to do that. But you do need to be honest, I think, about like, are we doing this together or not and of course back then too I was crazy and emotional and like what is this and is this forever and not and whatever I questioned all that too I didn't really know I really liked being with him yeah and we were not we never broke up it's not like I was like I can't wait to date other people I was not really interested in that it was more about I want to do things for myself and am I bringing him along is he gonna come or what's happening and he the answer to that was like he came he said yes I'm gonna come see that's what I wanted to hear because I'm like okay there had to be a moment where one of you is like what are we doing because if you never broke up I was gonna say like was there ever a moment that you had a freak out of like is this the one am I gonna look back and regret like okay I was we didn't have major freak outs but I think it was more about is our life gonna keep going together or is it going to die is it gonna you know are we Are we on the same path or are we going to diverge?

19:23And that's a question that everyone has to figure out. You know, you can't force those things to happen. I wanted to follow my dreams and be my own person and make sure I always had my own sense of security. I didn't need him to do things. And I know he felt the same way. He wanted to feel like he was his own man, his own person, all of those things. Even though we have this identity now more than ever that we are totally together, we needed to feel as young people that we had our individuality and that we were our own people before we could like join each join up with each other right I love that and that that was what we were that's the balance we were trying to do so we spend a lot of time apart from each other we still do yeah I'm a heart I'm a makes the heart grow fonder person like I don't mind being I I I mean, I mind being away.

20:15It's not the greatest, but it always makes me appreciate what I have at home. And that has been true our entire lives. Like I've always had to travel for work and he's always had to come visit or we've always come back together and the coming back together has always been awesome. I think that's something that's very underrated is like using moments apart that actually make you way closer and stronger because you miss them and you want to be with them. We end up being like on the phone for like three hours at night, like where it's in high school again. Do you know what I mean? Yes. It's cute.

20:49It's cute. That's what I was going to ask you. I'm like, okay, 30 years of marriage. Yeah. How do you keep the passion alive? How do you keep it interesting? Give us the secret. You know, it's funny because most people ask how do you stay together for that long? Like people are not actually interested in like those questions. Yeah. No, I'm interested. That's so funny. because most people are like how do you how do you like commit to someone and then not fuck it up they're like elizabeth how are you still with the same person they're like eyes twitching you're like and meanwhile i'm like i don't if you if you choose well right and you stay and you keep recommitting to it it's actually not that hard um the hardest like keep i'm always like don't cheat yeah that's the the big like what do most people break up over cheating that's what most people break up over.

21:42Let's be clear. That's it. Is there a conversation you guys had that was like a very specific conversation about that? Like when you got married or something? I mean, I remember we went to we were in San Francisco. We went to a restaurant. We were probably like 26. Then, you know, we had some drinks and we got a little drunk and it was more of just like, look, if anything's happened, if you've flirted, if this has gone on, I literally don't care let's not care about anything that happened in the past let's just talk about what the future looks like for us like are we are we doing this are we saying like it's me and you and we're going forward and we said yes and I remember it's kind of coming to the conclusion I was like oh okay so eventually I'm going to marry him and we're going to have kids we're going to make a family together and that kind of came out of out of a conversation that was like whatever's ever happened yeah let's not care because we were babies and you weren't it's fine you we weren't meant you know we didn't know that we were gonna be committed right but now tonight we're kind of in a place where we know we're going to yeah so let's like you know so let's kind of acknowledge it and kind of say like all right well then let's let's be real about this like let's be let's commit I appreciate that because I think there's a lot of people that can get scared to bring it up if they don't know where their partner's at yeah and it's a very scary feeling when I've had women write in being like I know like I'm ready for the next step and he has never brought it up and I'm like you have to have the conversation yes because what are you going to do sit around for a couple more years and then you finally ask him and he's like oh no I'm out well also I I think it's okay look people are afraid of the answer it's fear-based so because you're putting yourself out there and you don't want to hear that they don't want to do it but I think often what happens is by the way we didn't get married at 26 we there was multiple years went by after that before we actually married each other it was more just like let's start making decisions that will lead us to the same place which is we want to get married and start a family and that was it by the way I have I mean I have friends family that are don't want to get married but are like I want to move to LA do you want to come with me are we going to commit to this life together it's the same idea you know like we were living together so it's like totally that's what I was interested like you didn't get married right away how much open communication did you guys have about like we want to get married when are we getting engaged because I think sometimes like when I zero you didn't talk at all well meaning once we were like once I knew we were going to get married eventually I kind of had that in the back of my but I was like there was no rush I wasn't in a hurry right but my only hurry was literally I'm a little traditional I didn't want to accidentally get pregnant before I was married I get that was it okay okay that was it I was like oh I'm gonna feel really bad if I you wanted to do it I wanted to be traditional about it I just thought we've been together since we were 18 I and I by the way this is no judgment anyone who has a kid and then gets married I don't really care what anyone does I'm just telling you that for me I'm a little traditional I wanted to be married before I had kids were you surprised when he proposed yes he surprised me because he was like fuck you you're a know-it-all I didn't want you to know and he knows me really well and he wanted to create a scenario where he he did it there was him it was not he's a little traditional too that's why we work together do you know what I mean I think he He called my dad and the whole thing.

25:23And so it was like he went with like my good friend to like buy a ring and got her advice. And like, you know, he did all the work. And I think and he deserves all the credit for it because I was kind of like, do to do. Like I was working. I knew, you know, we'll figure it out eventually. Blah, blah, blah. And then he was like, no, we're doing it now. And I was like, oh, shit. All right. We're doing it. Can you share how he did it? Oh, it's not that crazy. I was working on this movie Seabiscuit. Okay, of course. I traveled all around for it, and I was in Kentucky. We were shooting a sequence at Keeneland, and he came to visit in Kentucky.

26:00He was in business school at UCLA at the time, getting his MBA. And so I honestly thought he wasn't going to do anything until he had graduated. You know what I mean? I didn't think he was really ready to get married. And he showed up. We went tailgating. So there's a big Kentucky, Louisiana football game. We love sports. And I was with these world-class jockeys in Kentucky where jockeys are literally the celebrities of Kentucky, right? So we were these big-time jockeys, Hall of Famers, and they were like, we're going to go. They have a suite at the thing with all these rich horse people. And so we went.

26:43We started drinking bourbon because it's Kentucky at 11 a.m. We were off our asses by the end of the game. The game was blowout amazing. They shot off fireworks like the game was over and Kentucky won. And then Louisiana ran a touchdown into the end zone and actually won the game. So it was like this crazy ending. And it was like it's one of these like top 10 all time like ESPN moments. Blah, blah, blah. So we go back to the hotel after this. We're done. Like I'm done. and and we're taking a nap and um i wake up and i'm like let's just get a steak to the room and like you know hang out like we're already kind of he's like no we are going to dinner you know get this big plan and he had asked like what's the best steakhouse in kentucky or whatever it's called malone's i don't know if it's still there it was in a shout out to malone's that's where i got engaged so we go to malone's we have a driver he like has it all arranged through the concierge We go to Malone's and it is a party because Louisiana has won and all these people are there for the game.

27:49And they're all wearing their Mardi Gras beads and it's purple everywhere. And there's a magician walking around doing stuff. And my husband is kind of horrified. He's like, oh, shit. He was wanting like Musso and Frank's. Like he wanted a classic, like, you know, like a red velvet banquette. banquette. Yeah. Right. Kind of a situation where we were going to eat a medium rare steak and have martinis. And he was going to ask me to marry him. It was gonna be great. Instead, we're in we're in a party. I mean, it is a massive party there. And we're hung over because we've already been drinking all day.

28:23So I think I ordered a ginger ale because I was like, I'm gonna die. And, you know, so we were there for like two and a half hours. He just wouldn't let the dinner end. He kept ordering things. He wasn't asking me. And honestly, he just wanted he didn't want to do it in front of like a table full of strangers. And he did not want to do it in front of a fucking magician. No, I think we could do it now. I feel like that's not as romantic as it. It doesn't even sound romantic. No, it wasn't. It wasn't. So truly, the restaurant was like closing. Like the staff was kind of like giving us the dirty like you need to get out of here.

29:01I and we I was like, why don't we get the check babe like let's go what are we doing why are we still here and then he just pulled out this ring and like yeah everyone and we were basically alone at that point in the restaurant it was really lovely and I was in shock in shock and then we went home and we called our entire family it was like one o 'clock in the morning I woke my parents up and and then his family's all west coast so they were it was early enough for them it was like 10 and we called everyone and it was great okay that's a great story yeah that's a that's an absolute great story because i think sometimes there's pressure to do like on the hot air balloon like skydiving like no like it can be that's not us you can that's just not us like that that's you great totally go for it that was not us he did it exactly how he and i were supposed to totally totally

30:12So you have two beautiful children. Yes, two boys. Did you always know you wanted children? Yes. I mean, when I was, I mean, I did not want children when I was young. Of course, of course. I wanted to plan my family. Right. Alex, that's what I was most interested in. I had a whole plan. Yeah, I had a plan. I did always want to have kids, yes. Especially once I knew I was marrying my husband. I wanted us to make a family together. Then it made sense for you. Yeah, 100%. You've been open about your journey to becoming a mom. Yes. Can you talk about that? Well, I've never been pregnant. and when I was young I thought it was because I was really good at taking the pill which I definitely was but I have no idea I have so I have there's a small percentage of women who basically have unexplained infertility and that is me I'm in that that category and really what it came down to for me and I know there are other women have other stories and there are rumors out there about my story so I just want to say this I've never been pregnant I've never had a miscarriage I think people mistook my story for like maybe I had a lot of I've never had a miscarriage.

31:24So for me, I had always had plenty of eggs. I never had trouble making embryos. They did not implant for whatever reason. My uterus is hostile. I don't know what's going on, but they just will not stay in there. So I had a broken belly is what I told my kids. Mommy had a broken belly. so we my husband and I it's funny because I remember when I went to the fertility doctor for the first time he was like you're gonna use a surrogate and this is a long time ago before surrogacy was like a Kardashian thing um right nobody was doing it back then and I thought he was crazy like what are you talking about no I'm not I'm like you know first of all I don't know what that is and that sounds nuts and expensive and we're not doing that and um but he was right because he'd seen my case like he's basically like i can solve like eggs like we have a lot of ways to like get women like create embryos you know we can solve bad sperm or whatever causes infertility they have a lot of solutions they do not they do not know to this day why an embryo implants or doesn't they don't know and um so he was like this is on you have an unsolvable problem which is not the language he used with me so at the time I thought like we're just going to do IVF or ART which is assisted reproductive technologies and we're going to figure it out because like other women I knew were doing that and they were getting pregnant it was not a problem like they take their Clomid and they do their this or that everybody's going to you know it's going to work for us and then dude it did not work for us we did I think I did like seven procedures that were all resulted in zippity-doo-dah and we were really despondent um and then there was a totally crazy scenario that I'm actually not going to talk about here but it involved like family members and a cancer scare and like many things going on um where we kind of thought like this is the challenge for us like we are really lucky people because we found each other and we're in love and we're just going to be a really good auntie and uncle and we're just we weren't meant to do it you know and then I had some incredible conversations with people and I had a doctor that was you know like you know you can use a surrogate like it's really okay and long story short because it's a very long story met somebody had an incredible conversation with her uh still to this day it's my actually my son's 10th birthday today and I'm going to send her a picture of him um yeah because she helped you know she helped make our family with us her mom had been a surrogate that's how she got into it she had three beautiful kids of her own with her awesome husband um because it takes like the whole village to do this and um I was given advice that you know nobody comes to surrogacy like willing excitedly at least I didn't you know it was like a last resort for me um but the advice I got was you will be so grateful and the other advice I got was because back then it's like and by the way it's illegal in most states and you know it's very it's the whole abortion conversation is very right now mixed up with IVF and you know all of this stuff is so um fraught so there was a lot of judgment around this back then especially and people were like guess what at the end you know I had a great friend who was like at the end of the day there's gonna be a baby and you're gonna be a parent and like nobody's gonna care how it happened and like yeah it's it was really good The other great advice I got was like, is your goal to be pregnant or to be a mom?

35:21And I was like, oh, shit, it's just to be a mom. Right. I don't need to be pregnant. Fuck. I just want the baby. Right. So it was like, what's the best way to get to the baby? Like, what are you doing? Like, who cares about the pregnancy? Get the baby. Whatever the situation is, like, there's a lot of shame, I think, for women. So much. Right. If you're not able to do it the exact way that like everyone envisions it going. And obviously we're so fortunate that we've progressed in the medical field that we're able to actually have so many different ways to go about bringing life into this world.

35:55But can you talk a little bit about that shame? Because I think sometimes women go through it and it's hard to articulate, especially when you feel so alone and going through it. But I also looked at it's your fertility is such a part of your life, men and women. Right. I mean, but for women, especially in a society that's like this is your why we value you. Right. We don't we don't value you because you could be a CEO. We value you because you can procreate and keep the race going. right um so if you can't do that like you are less of a woman that's the messaging and um you're my fertility was something that I had to mourn I had to grieve for it it was a loss and um I had to really work through that before I could invite someone else to help me make my family that's really what for me how the journey to surrogacy um was really about that and it was confusing too because it's like we could my husband I could make these beautiful baby cakes and I just didn't have an oven to bake them in and so it really was my fault do you know what I mean it was on me and I felt that deeply like I'm the I'm the problem um Um, and you know, you blame your lifestyle and you blame your, oh my God.

37:28And I did everything. And I was like, I stopped drinking. I stopped eating. Then I started eating because someone was like, you're too thin. You're too this. You know, I, you're, you, you use that cream and it's got a chemical in it. It's like, okay, everything has a chemical in it. I don't know. Like, you know, it's like, don't eat this. Don't do that. So it's like, everything you're doing is wrong. And like, truly, I went through all of those things. I really did. And at the end of the day, I remember a really good friend of mine. Her name is Anna. I hope she hears this. She was like, listen, I was pregnant and I loved being pregnant and I felt cool and it was great.

38:04And I gave birth and then they handed me a baby and they were like, go home and parent this baby. And being pregnant was like a distant memory as if it never happened because suddenly now actually motherhood is happening because now you you're responsible for this other person when you're pregnant you're still just responsible for you and you know there's i mean i'm not denying like the connection and all of those things i don't i mean i don't know it intimately because it didn't happen to me but of course i'm not denying anyone else's experience i'm just saying my friend was like they gave me a baby and then i took him from the hospital and like truly being pregnant is like what that was like nothing compared to like the rest of my life is taking care of this other human being right that's nine months like now it's for the rest of your life now it's the rest of your life that's what i had to focus on just refocusing on parenting and my actual child that was in my arms and man oh man it made everything else so stupid so silly everyone's judgment was like fuck off because oh now they get to judge me for how i parent it starts all over again it's a whole other side of the cycle but like no like you gotta mourn it absolutely look it was really it's a journey i i it's not it's hard it's not easy at all to feel like you can't do something that you really want to do that you feel made and built to do and you don't understand it and you're with a great person and like everything was right and it still didn't work for me.

39:50I really appreciate you sharing that because one recently for me women having autonomy over their bodies is the cause I care most about and I think hearing women talk about their individual journeys is so powerful because as much as we all are never going to have the same exact story yeah it's helpful to hear like we're all going to go through shit but we can support each other in how different our stories are that's right um your new movie yeah called jane is truly the movie i think everyone in america should see right now especially with what's going on yeah um can you explain what your character goes through in this movie in her character development so the movie's called jane um it's It's based on the true collective of women in Chicago in the late 60s, early 70s, before Roe v.

40:45Wade was the law of the land, that provided abortion health care to around 11 ,000 women that sought them out. So basically illegal abortion care was what they were providing. And in the film, I play this woman, Joy, who is a kind of conservative housewife who never in a million years thinks she's going to seek out abortion health care and finds out that she's pregnant. You know, she's 40 years old. So she's having a pregnancy that is that's life or death for her. Basically, it's putting a strain on her heart. And she's told, like, you'll probably die if you don't get rid of this pregnancy. and she's got a life that she's living and she's got a child that she's already raising a daughter and she makes a decision um that she prefers her life and um she has to seek out an illegal abortion through the janes and then once she meets this network and really for me it was when she makes this very life-affirming choice for herself to save her life um that her that everything begins for her right I read the script a long time ago and I remember thinking this is like a coming of age story for a 40 year old you know like you read coming of age for like a 17 year old right but you know or like Jane Austen or something but like this is a woman who's like well into what she thinks is a very comfortable life and then realizes oh my god I'm living in a bubble I had no idea all these other things were out there and I had no idea that I had it could find purpose in my life.

42:22And, you know, she's she just becomes a totally invigorated new person. But I do think that's also the beauty of growing up because I've talked about it on my show a lot. Like we are raised a specific way and, you know, God bless your parents. But there's it's really an extremely exciting time when you get away from where you were raised and away from your parents if you have the ability to do so. Changing your mind's OK. Change your mind's great. It's great. well it's it's a measure of your life experiences because it tells you that like oh i was able to be open to something new a new idea a new person it's mostly people that change us though isn't it yep it's meeting other human beings and building empathy for them and going like oh they're just a regular joe that wants to do blah blah blah with their life and live their dreams oh and they happen to be trans right or oh that happens to be you know oh they happen to be an ex-felon yeah But like they, you know, they're, I just think that the idea of people's whole humanity is just more interesting than like, you know, archetypes, tropes, like the whole, it's just like, there's so much more going on.

43:30I agree. I feel like even recently I felt like, oh my God, I, I never want to judge anyone again because we just have no idea. And it's actually, I judge myself for judging. I know I know but then it's like oh my god we have no clue so I think a really interesting scene that struck me in the movie was when you're in the boardroom yeah surrounded by all men telling you no you can't get an abortion correct and your character is like wait but like even if it means the death of her mother like what and they're like yeah no that scene was so powerful because I think how many times I've been in a room with all men and it's it's just so profound to look back when I was younger I wish I could have like stood up for myself in certain situations but have you experienced being in a room with men in an industry dominated by men like of course how have you evolved with your relationship to sticking up for yourself and trying to have a voice in a room where well that's what that scene really is about right it's about the spaces where women's voices are not valued.

44:35Of course, I've had many experiences in my life. I mean, you know, I'm an actor in Hollywood. I go to set, I've gone to many sets where I'm like the only female actor in the cast or, you know, one of a very few. I mean, I've mentioned Seabiscuit. Like, you know, I was, I had an amazing time making that movie, but it weren't like gal pals on that film. I mean, it was me and a bunch of dudes. So, and that's true of like a lot of movies I've done. So that was my experience for a long time and now you know I see it for what it is it's really it's so interesting as you get a little more distance from that time in your career but also when you look everything was anecdotal for a really long time so I think pre me too pre like we want to have more women on boards of fortune 500 companies like there's this whole movement right now that is about equality in a way in a way and then there's a backlash which is about abortion rights which is all about inequality so there is a sense of like women deserve more you know um more representation um and that comes you know i like to remind people that we are women as having political and economic power is brand fucking new in the scope of human history.

45:58Our grandmothers did not work outside the home. Women did not work outside the home, make their own goddang money until the 70s. You could not have a no-fault divorce until the 70s. You could not leave a husband just because you wanted to until the 70s. You had to have his permission to leave. So women have not had a sense of autonomy really or any political clout or economic power until my lifetime my you know 40 something years that's it so it's fresh as a daisy when it comes to the patriarchy the patriarch is like wait a minute we had a system right we loved it we were very happy with the system right what do you mean you're gonna work and like have opinions you're gonna want things you know hashtag me too fuck you and you're like no no stop abusing us like maybe stop doing that and like you know I think it's what people like why did it take so long for for instance you know I I won't say his name for a Hollywood mogul to get taken down you know why did why was he allowed to do that for so long and you're like because there were young women who had no careers and no money and no safety and no security.

47:14And then they grew up and they had husbands and families and money and lives and security and careers. And they were like, hey, that guy, that happened to me. And they were finally safe enough to say it. And it takes feeling safe to actually stand up for yourself. That's what it took me. It took me feeling safe in spaces. And that comes with my own sense of security. Like if I say this out loud, I will still work in my industry. I will not be punished for saying this. It's my safety that has allowed me to speak out. It's a privilege to feel safe. I currently feel safe. And I experienced something where I didn't feel safe back in college.

48:05And it was a power dynamic that was abused. And I now look back and I'm like, the reason I didn't speak up or didn't say anything was because like I needed a job. Like I needed to get my foot in the door. And so I wonder if you have advice for young women maybe that, I mean, are in the workforce right now trying to figure out like I don't have that safety or security right now. Like I don't know if you have any advice of like how to navigate. I know it's very difficult. It is. I would say there's safety also in numbers, right? Like we do feel that. So like hashtag me too was about numbers. It was about like, there were these anecdotes that were whisper campaigns in this.

48:47There's also now there's so much data. Like we just know we're like, no, 70 % of women experience XYZ. Like stop saying you don't do this to us. Like, do you know what I mean? Um, so I think partly it's that we actually have data that supports our feelings, you know, things that we could be dismissed now it's like no no there's studies now like we're actually looking at it which by the way also fresh as a daisy super new to actually give a shit what's happening to women in the world um haven't been studying us for very long so uh that's wild too my advice is like you're almost probably never alone so you know and you don't need to compete with other women there is it's not a pie with only so many slices.

49:36There really is opportunity out there for everybody. So I find that when people feel like they're competing, again, they don't feel safe. They don't feel secure where they are. So they feel like they can't reach out to somebody, say, you know, the other woman on the team or the other woman in the boom or the look for those mentors, talk to older ladies, look, you know, reach out across your network, talk to your friends about it. The shame and stigma around all of these issues is still so deeply felt by people and it's really hard to break out of and it's why people stay silent. And that is the best tool the patriarchy has.