Jane Goodall: 91 & Thriving

0:00Hello, Daddy Gang. Welcome back to another episode of Call Her Daddy. This week's guest is Jane Goodall. I am freaking out. Okay. I am so excited for you to watch this episode. Jane has dedicated her life to be a little bit. I think that this episode might be a little different than what you're used to on Call Her Daddy every week. I know a lot of you come here to get to know some of the biggest celebrities on a more intimate level. And it obviously doesn't hurt when they spill some tea. But sometimes I think it's good to switch it up and step away from the conversations that we're having on social media constantly, 24-7.

0:54And so I wanted to sit down with someone who has spent their life truly connected to the real world. And that is why this conversation with Jane is genuinely so special. Dr. Jane Goodall is 91 years old, the oldest guest that we've had on Call Her Daddy. And the wisdom that she carries is unlike anything that I've ever experienced. Sitting across from her, I felt it. Her presence, her perspective. It was so grounding in a way that I didn't realize I even needed. And I want you to feel that too today. So I suggest watching this episode alone, whether you are on a walk, you're at the gym, you're laying in bed, you're at your home, you're at work, whatever it be.

1:43I just ask that you give yourself the space to really absorb what she is saying, because I promise it's worth it. So, let's get into it. What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy. Dr. Jane Goodall, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Hi, hello. How are you doing? Well, you know, this is, I'm in the middle of an American spring tour, and it's pretty exhausting, to be honest. Yesterday was super exhausting. Can you tell me a little bit about what you're doing? Well, what I'm doing is trying to help people understand that we're going through very dark times. And if we don't get together and start doing what each of us can to make the world a better place, you know, the future is very uncertain.

2:40That's why I'm really excited that you're here today because you walk into a room and I can just feel your wisdom and the things that you have learned throughout your life. It's like an honor to even just get to sit down with you for an hour. I love how you're like working so hard. And isn't it your birthday tomorrow? It is my birthday tomorrow. Jane. It's another way of, you know, what do I have to do? What's the hardest thing I have to do is raise money for all the different projects. You know, and people think, oh, Jane must be wealthy. She gives these lectures. She gets lots of money. Yes, but the money goes to our projects.

3:20Do you ever take time for yourself? Like, are you going to celebrate on your 91st birthday? What are we doing tomorrow, Jane? People like to celebrate my birthday the whole year. So I get all these birthdays and all these birthday cakes. I didn't bring you a cake today because I knew you always get cakes from people. So I brought you whiskey instead. Oh, that's super. You like whiskey, right? Yes. Well, you know, my mother, she died when she was 98. And she was sharp to the end, although she had Parkinson's. But she couldn't. She just didn't drink water. She said it didn't agree with her. I don't like much water either.

3:59She couldn't drink wine. So her tipple was whiskey. So we made a thing that seven o 'clock, wherever I was, I would raise a toast to her. That is so sweet. And I love that your mom was like, water doesn't agree with me. I'm more of a whiskey gal. What is your favorite kind of whiskey? Oh, not the very expensive malty ones. I hope you didn't get a very expensive. I got you one that's like, it's my favorite whiskey recently. It's this Japanese whiskey. Oh, that's very good. You'll be taking it home today. What did you do for your 90th birthday? That's a big one. That again was celebrated the whole year.

4:43The only thing I really, really liked was when I was greeted on the beach by 90 dogs. 90 dogs. 90 dogs. See, that's why I brought Henry today. I have not, I said to you, I said, I have not brought Henry in a while because you want to be respectful. You don't know when people are dog, people are not. And when I knew that you're a dog person immediately, selfishly, I'm like, Henry needs to meet the great Jane. Like I was like, you have to meet him and he needs to meet you. 90 dogs. Who facilitated that? 90 dogs. And it was in Carmel. Carmel on the sea. It was an off-leash part of the beach. And everybody brought their dogs.

5:26And so I was throwing sticks in the sea and then it began to rain and then it stopped raining. It was just amazing. It was wonderful. I believe maybe that's a part of what heaven feels like, is just like you open your eyes and there's just dogs everywhere, happy, running free. And we've got a great photo of all the owners with their dogs and me sitting in front with the sea behind us. It's a great photo. I love it. You mentioned you travel 300 days a year for work. Jane, I get exhausted from a week of travel. What is your secret? How do you do it? Well, I do it because I have to. It probably sounds strange to you, but by now being 90, I feel that I was put on this planet with a mission.

6:21and right now as I said we're going through dark times and the big problem is people are losing hope many people come up to me and say well I look around all that's going wrong in the world and I I just feel helpless and you know so I say well you can't solve the problems of the world but what about where you live your community is there something there you feel you might like you don't like litter on the pavement or you don't like they're planning to dig up a little forest to put yet another supermall, go and do something about it. But you saying that you feel like you've been put on this earth with this mission, like does it ever feel like too much of a burden to carry on your own?

7:10And how as much as you put into it, if you're not getting out of it, like do you ever become exhausted? Well, the thing is, you know, this mission keeps me going because there's so much to do. And if we lose hope, we're doomed. Because if you lose hope, you become apathetic and do nothing. But I'm not alone. You know, the Jane Goodall Institute is now in 25 countries, different chapters. And in addition, there's our program for young people, roots and shoots, which is humanitarian and environmental. And that's in 75 countries. Wow. How incredible that you have left such a legacy that whether you were doing it or not doing it, it will now live on forever, hopefully.

7:59You said you have left. I'm not dead yet. No, I'm saying if you left and stopped, Jane. I mean, if you left and you decided, like, it's time to retire like I want to just go and relax on a beach somewhere like if you decided to not do it like that is I feel like the test of a real legacy is knowing that it is going to just keep living on because you've like touched so many people no not yet I mean you still got I can't retire as long as as long as I can you know and if I become physically disabled if my brain works. I want to do more writing because I love writing. Your little friend sitting next to you, what is his name again?

8:38Mr. H. Mr. H. Okay, I need this story because I wanted to ask you, obviously, you've had such an incredible career. But for some of my younger audience who maybe are becoming fans of you today or are fans of you, can you talk about like how you got into what you do and what you love? And also, how does Mr. H play into your story? Okay, well, let me deal with Mr. H first. Okay, let's get to it. Then I can put him away. Perfect. Mr. H was given to me 34 years ago by a man who thought he was giving me a stuffed chimpanzee. His name is Gary Horn. He was blinded in the U.S. Marines when he was 21. Anyway, he thought he was giving me a stuffed chimp, and I made him hold the tail.

9:23I said, Gary, chimps don't have tails. He said, never mind, take him with you, and you know my spirit's with you. So he's been with me to 64 countries, and he's extremely famous. And if you touch him, I say if you stroke him, the inspiration rubs off. So you asked how I got into it. Well, I was born loving animals. And the most important thing in my young childhood is my mother, because she supported me. So when I was one and a half years old, I don't remember this, but she told me, she came into my room and found I'd taken a whole handful of wriggly earthworms to bed. And instead of getting angry like most mothers, because, you know, she just said, she told me later, Jane, you are looking so intently.

10:15I think maybe you were wondering how they walk without legs. So we took them back into the earth. Anyway, the point of that is that was the making of a little scientist, asking questions, not getting the answer, deciding to find out for yourself, making a mistake, not giving up, and learning patience. And a different mother might have crushed that early curiosity. And I might not be talking to you now. I feel like there's so many people that could be listening that envy that, right? Because so much of when you're young, you're able to flourish based off of the environment that you grow up in. And there's a lot of kids that dream of things.

11:02And maybe it's cute when they're young, but as they start to get old, then the adults are like, that's not realistic. You can't make a career out of that, right? That's exactly right. When you told people that your dream in life was to go to Africa and to research, what was their reaction?

11:37when you told people that your dream in life was to go to africa and to research What was their reaction? We have to remember to start with, I grew up in the war. Started when I was five. And, you know, we didn't have much money. My father went off to join the army. And we went to live with my grandmother. It was a house of women. And me and my sister, my mother and her two sisters and my grandmother. And because there was no television back then, hadn't been invented, which young you probably find it hard to imagine don't you I find it hard but I feel like I talked so much to my grandmother about her life because I'm just naturally want to know about people's life experiences so if anything I think there's a part now where we envy that and I know that probably sounds weird where like I envy the older generations having a much more like simplistic lifestyle because I do think it's kind of like corroding our brains in a capacity.

12:45No doubt. Yeah. But anyway, you know, so I learned from being outside with nature, watching the squirrels and the birds garden in England and from books. I love books. And do you know Dr. Dolittle? Yes, of course. Well, I found the book of Dr. Dolittle when I was eight, came from the library. And then I used to save up just a few pennies of pocket money. My sister bought sweets with them. I saved them, and I found a little secondhand bookshop. And I was 10 years old, and I found this tiny, cheap edition of Tarzan of the Apes. Well, you know, no TV, Tarzan, no film, just the book. So I fell in love with this glorious lord of the jungle.

13:32And what did Tarzan do? He married the wrong Jane. No! So anyway, I knew there wasn't a Tarsam. That's when my dream began. I would grow up, go to Africa, live with wild animals and write books. No thought of being a scientist. No thought of, you know. And everybody said, that's ridiculous. I mean, you don't have money. Africa's far away. And you're just a girl. Not my mom. She said, if you really want to do something like this, you're going to have to work really hard. take advantage of every opportunity. And if you don't give up, hopefully you find a way. And that's the message I take around the world, particularly in disadvantaged communities.

14:18And I wish mom was alive. And maybe she's listening. The number of people who said, Jane, I want to thank you. You've taught me because you did it. I can do it too. I'm curious if you saw because it's incredible the way you're speaking about your mom and how impactful she was in giving you this confidence to go forward with your dream. Did you see your mom living her life the way that she encouraged you to do it? Because I feel like sometimes with generations, it's like they didn't get to do certain things. So then they're like with their kids are like, go and do it and do it all. I wish I could have.

14:59Was your mom someone that got to live out her dreams? Well, unfortunately, she had two sisters and a brother. She was the third. So the brother went on to be a surgeon, a brilliant surgeon. And her older sister was the first person to be qualified, the first girl to be qualified as a physiotherapist. And mom was also going to college to do music. but the war came and her father died. And sorry, not the war, it was her father dying. And then there was no money left. So she couldn't go to college. So she became a secretary. So she had a good life, but not the life that she probably would have dreamed of.

15:49So I was lucky. My dream came true. Yeah, and I'm sure there was something, I mean, I'm not a mother, But from what I can understand and talking to so many women who have children, like there is something innately in you that you want your child to have a better life than you have even more experiences and more opportunities. And it's just I think it's beautiful to hear the way that you speak about your mother and how much she was willing to sacrifice in her life to make sure that you got what you needed. Parents, parents need to be supportive. You know, OK, so you're a little boy of three. I'm going to be an engine driver.

16:27Oh, don't be silly. You're not going to be. Why not say, wow, you'll be a fabulous engine driver, the best engine driver, because you know they won't be an engine driver. But make them feel good. But I bet that's what your mom in her brain was like, oh, there's no way Jane's actually going to go to Africa. There's no way she's at. And then you did it all. how often do you think in your career were you prejudged for being a woman and the way that you looked and then slowly you were able to garner the respect because of the work you were putting in well I think I was kind of lucky because it wasn't a male dominated field because there weren't nobody really was going out at that time now of course everybody's studying and back then there were two primate studies and a giraffe study.

17:21Most studies were in captivity. And so everybody, you know, it wasn't like it is today. And I was really lucky. I had the whole feel. I mean, nobody had studied chimps in the wild. But studying chimps in the wild, like, I need to understand from your perspective, you weren't going into a lab. You're going into the wilderness. You're going to be surrounded by animals. At the time, you had no formal training. Like, were you scared at all? Or did you have any hesitations? No, I wasn't scared. It was my dream, remember. And there were two problems. First, money. Always money. Because, I mean, as you say, I wasn't trained, hadn't been to college, but finally got money for six months from an American philanthropist.

18:19And second, it was Tanganyika back then, Tanzania today. And the British authorities said, we won't take responsibility. It's a stupid idea. Young girl going in the forest. In the end, they said, oh, all right, but she can't come alone. That was when my amazing mother volunteered to come. That's incredible. And we, you know, our expedition was a shoestring. We had one old secondhand tent between us. We had to take her cook and we had scant supplies, but I was, you know, up in the hills every day. You were 26 years old. Like that is so incredible to know that you basically took a pretty untraditional trajectory with your life and you took a risk and you went for something that you know you were passionate about.

19:18Could you give any of my listeners, we have a lot of young women listening who maybe they're thinking right now, like, should I take a risk, whether it's with their career or their life trajectory, whatever it be? Do you have any advice in taking risks as a young adult? Well, I can only think of the advice my mother gave me. You know, if you want to do something, work hard and take advantage of opportunity. The key thing is you've got to know you really want to do it. So today, you know, people take gap years. And that's really good because you can find out, is this really what I want to spend my life doing?

20:00And also I meet young people and they're perhaps in their second year at university. And they say, well, you know, I actually made a mistake, but I can't change now. Well, that's the biggest mistake. Because if this is going to be the rest of your life, change now while you can into a different, you know, different career path. it's such a great lesson because i feel i feel like there's two types of people growing up either there's the person similar to yourself where you have this unwavering undying love for something that you just know innately in your soul like i have been called to do this i want to do this and then there are people who are a little lost or confused and that is also a very normal path and they have to find what they love and they have to find what they're passionate about And I think a lot of times people in that category find themselves just trying to do things that other people are doing around them because, oh, well, my friend's doing this.

21:02Maybe I will do it. And it's hard to just originally find what makes you happy. So I love that advice of like if you genuinely to your core know that this isn't what you want, well, first you need to just try it to know you don't want it and to go for it first. And then if you hate it. Yep. And, you know, there's another thing that some women really want to be homemakers, and yet it's getting so that they're despised. You want to stay at home, and you want to cook, and you want to look after your children instead of being out there having a career and, you know, standing up shoulder to shoulder with your male counterparts.

21:43Well, that's wrong too, Because if that makes you really happy, then your children will be happy. Your husband, if you have one, or your boyfriend or whoever probably will be happy. And happiness is so important. It's the king of Bhutan who made this happiness index. And it's fascinating to see, you know, that getting more and more money and more and more fame and more and more, you know, doesn't necessarily make people happy. I think that's a very important topic that you just brought up that I think would be very helpful for people listening also about feeling like, you know, being a stay at home mom in a beautiful way.

22:30I think there's a lot of women who are now trailblazing in specific industries. And that's obviously such an incredible accomplishment that women are even allowed to sit next to men in rooms now. But I also think that there is no doubt that being a mother is a full-time job. And to not acknowledge the women who are fulfilled by that is also putting women down in a different capacity. It is in a different way. Yeah. And you know, if we go back to the child, if the most important thing for the child is to be supported by two, three, four people who are consistently there, it doesn't have to be the biological mother.

23:14So I met the chief of a Latin American indigenous tribe. And he said to me, he said, Jane, we see our tribe as like an eagle. One wing is male, the other wing is female, and only when they're equal will the tribe fly high. Jane, I just want to pause. I'm like, I wish everyone could hear that. That's incredible. And yet so many people don't believe that. No, they don't. And you know, the thing is, there are female characteristics and male characters. We all have both. But basically, we need both. We need the sort of more dominating male characteristics to stand up to things in life that might knock us down.

24:07But we need the more nurturing role of the woman. We need both. We do. And I feel like especially in the social and political climate right now, the brute is being rewarded and people think that being tough and masculine and aggressive is the way to always go. And we always see the pendulum swing. Once we've had enough of that, then we will go back to the nurturing. And if we were able to establish a more coexisting life, then both things could be present at the same time. But I feel like we're going so far to one side that then we almost feel like we have to overcorrect and go to the other. And it's exhausting.

24:53But you know, it's so sad. I've lived long enough to see this pendulum swing moving towards, oh, we need more males. We need more in this society. We need to have, you know, a masculine society to deal with what we're going through. That's not right. it's not and I can't imagine the feeling it evokes in you to have watched women start to garner more rights only for it to almost be taken away to the point that we're losing more than previous generations for us something I was thinking about with your career also is you know you talked about how there was no one really it wasn't even a male dominated field it wasn't a field.

25:39And so you were venturing into this unknown territory. Yes, yes. Which is exciting and exhilarating. But I'm curious about the aspect of isolation. Like in any form and time during your career where you're experiencing being alone in these pretty intense moments, like, did you feel lonely or were you just alone? No, I've never felt lonely. And some of the happiest days of my life, I did eventually get a degree in Cambridge. And then I went back to Gombe, you know, the chimp study. And I could spend hours and hours alone in the rainforest is learning, yes, more about the chimpanzees, but also about this complex ecosystem where every plant and animal has a role to play and they're all interdependent.

26:37And what I discovered was that if you're out in a beautiful place with someone, someone you love or, you know, your family or something, then it's human beings in a beautiful environment. But when I was alone, I was part of that world, not separated from it by being a human in that world. It's hard to explain, and it didn't happen that often. But when it did, it was a very basically spiritual experience. understandably i'll never probably understand like the level that you're describing of being immersed in that world and being alone but i think we can all relate on some level of if you do go watch a sunset by yourself and you're sitting in a canyon or your backyard and you're alone and when you do things solo there is like a deeper connection that you have if you take a walk on the beach and there's no one there if you're in water and you're alone like there is being alone has so much power because you're really forced to also connect with all of your senses.

27:51But it's so rare, I believe, that the recent generations are doing that because they've always got the phone and they have. Oh, yes. Yes. Oh, yes. That thing, Jane. That thing. Could you give any advice on how can young adults get more comfortable with being alone? I mean, are you alone if you're always on Facebook or Instagram or video games? Are you really alone? No. Not really. No, because I think something that I envy, honestly, and I'm sure there are going to be people listening to this, that it's almost like it can make people emotional. is like the way that you talk about this like genuine happiness and this connectivity you felt in your life to being at a place in time where you were so immersed in a world and completely disconnected from humanity and all those things that really bring just more crap to our lives and moments.

28:56Yes, it's beautiful to connect with humans, but we rarely are alone. I feel like there's a lot of young kids that feel like they're alone and they're laying in their bed, but then they're scrolling and they're watching other people. And so they're just observing what other human beings are doing and what other people are feeling and talking about. And you're just not actually having to self-reflect in any capacity. You're actually just like consuming an exorbitant amount of content that is then like shaping the next hour of your life. And then you're standing up and you feel depressed and you're curious as to why you don't feel fulfilled.

29:30And it's like because you just watched everyone else living and you just sat and consumed it for hours. Now go live your life. And I think that's what's so incredible about your story and your journey is how much you went and have lived and experienced and you love life. Can you share with me the moment that you obviously had this incredibly huge breakthrough discovery when you observed a chimpanzee using tools in the wild? What does that moment mean to you still to this day?

30:23You obviously had this incredibly huge breakthrough discovery when you observed a chimpanzee using tools in the wild. What does that moment mean to you still to this day? Well, it was, you know, for the first four of my six months money, the chimps ran away. I mean, they just vanished into the forest, and I just had to learn from a distance with binoculars. And then one chimpanzee began to lose his fear and let me get a bit closer. And he had beautiful white hair on his chin. I called him David Graybeard. And on this day, I was walking through the forest, and I saw him sitting on a termite mound.

31:10so he was pulling out this with termites hanging on and eating them and sometimes he was picking leafy twigs then he had to strip the leaves to make a tool and the reason this was so exciting is that at that time it was thought by western science that only humans used and made tools we were defined as man of course man the tool maker and so when I wrote to my mentor Louis Leakey. He was just so excited. And so as we're defined as man, the tool maker, he said, we must redefine tool, redefine man, or accept chimpanzees as humans. And that was when the National Geographic stepped in and said, well, Jane's money runs out, we'll continue to support her.

32:02And so then I could relax. And really, I got to know those chimpanzees, almost like members of my family. You have had so many moments in your career where you've had to walk into rooms and explain something that maybe people had never heard before, where you're like, no, trust me. I saw it. This is what happened. And I think a lot of that takes, yes, having the truth on your side, but confidence to be able to walk into a room and do that? Like, do you have advice for women listening of how they can advocate for themselves in an intimidating work situation? Well, I've been intimidated. Don't worry.