Janelle Monáe: We Should Thank Our Exes (FBF)

0:02What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with call her daddy. janelle monae welcome to call her daddy thank you so much for having me i'm first of all i'm just so excited to meet you i'm a huge fan of all your work i was listening to your music on my way here and i'm like okay you are giving sexual sensual fun party vibe it gives all the vibes your album is amazing i'm so happy to have you here oh thank you so much for having me of course i'm i'm a big fan of your show thank you of your experience rather so i was really happy when i found out we were going to do this so thank you thank you okay tell me how your summer is going you were on vacation where were you let us pretend we were there with you oh please i'm like can we all just go on vacation for the whole summer come on everybody everybody let's do this let's all agree that summers are for vacations paid for by the government i love this energy paid for by the government let's we're gonna like manifest it here now because it's like when you were younger i feel like summers were always vacation because off of school but when you become an adult nothing is fun anymore we're like how we need to go on vacation okay so where were you okay so i was in abisa abiza spain okay um and then i stayed there for probably like five or six days which was like an experience like it is a party place so we did not go to sleep i went with like 10 of my other friends and we didn't go to sleep till like seven in the morning every morning i can't even say night right But it was so fun.

2:02It was that ooch, ooch, ooch, ooch, ooch, ooch, ooch, ooch, ooch. That ooch, ooch music. I kind of like ooch, ooch, but I need like some hip hop, some something mixed in with it. But it was so fun. The sunsets are beautiful. And then the second portion of the vacay was Jamaica. Oh, I've never been. Ocho Rios. Beautiful people. The food, the chicken patties, the beef patties, the shrimp curry, oh the plantains I had at least 152 plantains what one by one oh yeah the water I'm like oh I feel like I'm there with you oh it was like it was heaven so I will say I'm sort of mentally still there it's okay we can keep it chill we're on vacation this is summer like we're just gonna relax today okay let's relax and it's so interesting that you say like as kids growing up it just reminded me like I didn't take vacations as a kid okay I think that's why I'm so adamant about it now I didn't you know my parents worked a lot and and we didn't get the opportunity to go outside of Kansas so I didn't take my first vacation until really my first album came out and now you're like I deserve this I'm making up for lost time as you should that's phenomenal I feel like when I go on trips with my friends there's someone in the friend group that's like the planner that's like the reservations and the itinerary person and then there's people that are more like chill and just going with the flow who are you in the friend group oh my god i'm the one actually sending out the group texts like dinner i could be at the club it could be four in the morning i'm like lunch is going to be served at 2 p.m breakfast for anybody between nine and noon um dinner's gonna be eight like I love making the itineraries I'm that friend you're the dream though I'm I'm yeah like people are like Janelle why are you doing and I just I don't know I just love curating experiences yeah I grew up actually um throwing parties with my best friends middle school sixth grade seventh grade we would rent out this location in one of our friends neighborhoods a little white building and we would charge people a dollar to get in and I would hide in the bathroom because I didn't know who was going to come I had so much anxiety around it and then once it would get packed my friends would come underneath the stall because I locked myself in the bathroom they'd be like it's packed come out come out bitch get out get out get out and so I've just always loved curating experiences for people I mean I think that's a like a great trait and quality to have like i feel like that makes a lot of sense of like what i wanted to talk to you about today is obviously your new album the age of pleasure is out and i was while i was listening to it i'm like you have such a specific great vibe that's like very infectious which i love and i'm curious like are you currently in your age of pleasure have you always been like and what is age of pleasure to you oh that's a great question um i wasn't always in my age of pleasure I've been in an age of fear age of anxiety age of just um worry uh a fight you know fighting back against systems that seek to oppress folks like myself and the people that I love and centering that um and with this album which I actually don't even call an album I say that it is a soundtrack to a lifestyle it's a lifestyle you know we live this um I wrote this this this project for my friends and for me and I was just like if we fuck with it that's all I care about so I would throw parties at my house with my friends who own this um party collective called everyday people and if I knew we were going to be having and hosting them on a Saturday that Monday or Tuesday we would go into the studio and we would write like two to three songs that would work in the DJ's playlist.

6:13I wouldn't tell anybody it was me. I would not like make a big thing about it. And I would be very nervous. Like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. Are people going to sit down? Because if people sat down, it was not going to go on the album. If people were not Shazamming, it wasn't going on the album. And so every song that you hear, all of my friends, all of the people who were with us celebrating in this safe space, they are responsible for the songs making the album that takes a lot of confidence but also just like self-awareness to be like I'm gonna play my friends my songs they're gonna have no fucking idea it's me and watch let's see if they vibe with it so like everything because I was thinking I when I was listening to champagne shit I was like okay like this is a vibe like I would listen to this like getting ready with my friends like getting ready to go out like but then I'm oh I'm wondering like so you're sitting there being like do they like it do they like it and then you're like check that's going on the soundtrack yep I'm like how do people move okay what or I saw some people shazamming and then some people be like wait is this but I never would confirm I would go hide and be like you know having somebody else tell me what's going on um but yeah like it's it's as an artist presenting anything before the world gets it Like for that first time, I talked to a lot of my artist friends and we're all like, it is one of the most like scary things ever, scary feelings to have because it comes from such a pure place when we create and for it not to be accepted.

7:47You don't know, you know, you take it. But for me, I got I was like, I'm ready. I'm OK. I had to heal some shit, you know, because because some of that is attached to to just rejection issues, abandonment issues. Like people don't like my stuff that could go down to the root of an issue that you just need to fix. And I definitely used a portion of this pandemic to to sort of work on that and to get to to my own traumas that I had to heal and to get to a place where I was like, wait, I've been really centering, fighting so much that I don't even know what my life is like outside of that. who am I you know I taught I like who am I outside of the fight you know who am I and so I had to sit with myself and ask myself and you know when I think about the word pleasure there is no pleasure without feeling safe yeah I didn't always feel safe that's so I appreciate you sharing that because I one can relate in terms of like putting something creatively out there and being extremely nervous to see obviously like are people gonna like it on top of that obviously you infusing parts of you with your sexuality and race and growing up and your experiences like that's like a really vulnerable moment to be infusing something into a work of art and then like fingers crossed hoping people like it you kind of have to slowly be really good with yourself to be able to know like sure I can like perfect my craft a little bit more but down to the core like if people don't like it I'm still gonna be okay with myself and that must take time though exactly it does it takes a lot of unlearning yeah it takes a lot of um fucking with yourself you know and and and like I have to say like you have to be like I fuck with me you know yeah okay somebody doesn't like a song that I made but that doesn't make me a bad songwriter yeah that doesn't make me a bad artist that doesn't mean that I should just throw away my whole career you know and you have to just understand that sometimes we're not always in the same space that we can take in yeah you know take in the message or the energy that an artist is trying to put out and um there's nothing wrong with that it's just like okay this didn't resonate with you okay but I don't give you that power over me you're not more powerful your thoughts about my art are not more powerful than my thoughts about my art yeah it's so real what you're saying too because even when I was listening to you say like I was fighting for so much of my life like and when am I gonna get out of this stage that's also the beauty of art is like it will come to it when you're ready like your music would have sounded so different in your fighting stages versus now when you're like I fucking love myself I'm more clear on who I am I'm more secure in certain things that were like eating me alive maybe when I was younger and going through it and you can tell like this album I like it makes you smile it makes you feel yourself it makes you just like want to live and I don't know if that sounds corny but like no it's fast no it's really beautiful thank you so much for sharing yeah every moment of your soundtrack felt very thoughtful and and put together and it is a story so i just i'm a creative person so i just felt you know i really respect you and it's great thank you you know i i wanted to focus on feeling too you know i think feeling is what music uh gives us it makes us feel it makes us want to dance it makes us want to party it makes us want to cry makes us want to feel ourselves and feel sexy have sex all those things is such a powerful energy and the fact that it's a feeling that I had that I felt like man this is this makes me feel good knowing that that makes you feel and we are just meeting each other that's such I think that's such a beautiful exchange so thank you so much of course it's interesting you kind of mentioned this earlier and I want to talk about it I know you've talked about going to therapy and working on yourself and I know you're at a great place in your life and you know the age of pleasure but let's go back a little bit what is the biggest part of yourself you had to heal in order to be who you are sitting here today oh wow you know one of the things that I had to do was again deal with my rejection and abandonment sort of trauma um where did that start from you know my dad and I who were like this now we're super close but my dad struggled with addiction growing up and so he was in and out of my life and so there were just times where I didn't know if he was really going to come and pick me up you know I just I did the trust wasn't there I felt let down there were you know moments um that that that that happened all the way up until you know high school and and other things that happened so I had to go back to those times that were painful that those times that I just had to forgive my dad I was like I have to forgive you you were struggling with drug addiction you were not um the best version of yourself and now that you are we get to make up for that we get to make up for that time and as I healed that and I talked to him about it a lot changed for me as I forgave him I forgave my own self for spending so many years you know um in that dark space and connecting that to my art you know if if I thought that I had done something wrong you know why wasn't he showing up for me and so when you go and you in in the back of your head or thinking that you're doing something wrong that your own dad isn't around Now, if in your art, you feel like people are not liking what it is that you're doing or they're judging you or whatever.

13:58It's so all it's intertwined. You know, the feeling of like them leaving you like your dad left you. You never want to feel that. And so I had to get to a place where I was. I understood what that was and I had to let go and I had to be OK with knowing that there's nothing wrong with me. If if if folks don't want to come to my party. You know, even me hiding in the bathroom, they don't, they didn't want to come to my party. Okay. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with me. My dad, it wasn't nothing wrong, wrong with me while my dad wasn't around. He was struggling. He was battling and people are battling so many things.

14:33People are into different things that perhaps what you're, you're doing doesn't necessarily align with it or they just plain might not like it. And that's okay. But do you like you? I think it's so interesting when you start to connect to your childhood and how your parents raised you and you know what trauma did you go through when you don't deal with it there's just like this anger in you or there's this like resentment and there's just a part of you even if you don't want to label it that like there's just something in you that you feel like you haven't resolved and a lot of times we don't have the perspective of kids of like oh like this wasn't intentional that my dad was doing this to like neglect me and make me feel abandoned but it happened and so two things can be true right like he wasn't trying to like inflict pain on you he was going through something but it affected you and until you go through all of that it's gonna influence the way that you move in life that you see life yeah but even you saying it's interesting like it affected your art I'm interested to know how did it affect your personal relationships with this theme of abandonment within you it affected them for sure yeah it was just like trust issues um you know breakups were intense yep because it just mirrored that but now like there are moments where you know I was dating someone and you know we broke up and and and I just was like I will never talk to this person again the way they made me feel I will never talk to them again and after I started to um go through therapy and I have an emotional support coach that I talked to after at which by the way therapy like we're we're benefiting from therapy I just really wish that it was free for every person around the world I really really really do wish that there was a fund that everybody could access the where they could have therapy they could have somebody to talk to and work through I do believe that we will be in a much better shape as a community as a nation as a world um so I just wanted to say that because I feel like damn I wish everybody could go could experience these things um so I was like I would never talk to this person again and after I went through you know understanding and getting to the root of like my my rejection abandonment um trauma you know what I did I thanked the person who I was in a relationship with and it did not work out for us I thanked them I said you know what and my emotional support coach said that I was going to do that it's like you are going to thank this person because you know what this person did for you they forced you to deal with something that you were not going to deal with they pushed you to go back to the root of the problem you were not going to do it you were moving you were too busy moving you didn't have time but that relationship the ending of that specific relationship forced that and I literally called that person and I thanked them I said thank you so much you have no idea like I was really walking around here hurt and you forced me to like you know and so they started sharing things with me they were just like I just wasn't ready I was confused myself I did not trust it was going so well for us I'm so used to chaos that I didn't I felt like this was not going to end how I wanted it to end I I'm also dealing with rejection issues so we just kind of healed through each other and and that and and it helped me in my other relationships I was like here are the here are the things that I was doing because of my trauma when I'm free from that trauma I'm like a really really really like beautiful partner to have and it just helped me to understand how I want to show up for for my future partners isn't that so interesting when you meet people in life that obviously again like you needed to work on yourself to be able to have that hindsight and be like wait that was so helpful but like most of the time in life in romantic partnerships I feel like specifically like you can get so hurt by them but that's not your family so you're like I can walk away but you're always going to learn something so incredible and if you can get past that hurt initially we really should be thanking all of our exes because it's like even if you cheated on me like I have partners in the past that I had so much resentment and anger and I look back and I'm like there's so much I learned about myself and my resilience and my worth and it's like had that not happened of course there's moments in life where like I wish no harm on anyone but like certain themes that you can take find the good part of it rather than feeling so negative and angry because Becca's gets us nowhere yeah so it's interesting to hear you talk about like how you connected with that person yeah at first being like I'll never talk to you again and then you're like wait a second thank you thank you like fucking thank you and I will say though I mean I know it's like sometimes with exes because I also had an ex that was just like man I wish I really had this new version of you like when we were dating I wish that I was around that was the person you showed me and I was just like yeah I agree but listen what do you want me to say like I wasn't I wasn't ready I was growing I needed to grow and you know um I'm sorry you know true and you know it's interesting but i've had i remember an ex i had kind of similar to that but you also wonder like but if i was this new version of myself we probably wouldn't have been together because you were attracted to me then we ended up for some reason right we were both toxic as hell as hell right we both were toxic and so like you can wish yeah it wouldn't you would we i would definitely would not this new version would have not dated right you know that that that that person And I love you.

20:41Yes. I love you. But there's just no way that I could put myself back into that sort of like chaos. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, again, it's like you're both growing. So for him to be even able to see your growth. Yeah. Phenomenal. Love it. Amazing. But we probably needed to go on our own ways to actually get whole and good and feel healthy within ourselves. And maybe that's just not the right fit. But at the time it was. Yeah. And so we can appreciate each other's growth, but we're not going to grow together. Yeah. We grew together and that's a beautiful thing. I always want the best for people.

21:14Like even if we're not together as a human, that also helped contextualize breakups is like, even though we're not together, I don't want anything negative to happen to you. I don't want you to, I don't want anything bad to happen to you as a human. I want the best for you. And if that means that it's not with me at that time or at that season, then so be it. Yeah. Yeah. If someone's listening to this and is like, wow, I really relate to you. maybe they had someone in their life that didn't show up for them and was constantly, you know, neglecting to be there and show up. What did actually working through that childhood trauma, like look like for you?

21:55Because I can see some people like, you know, how do I begin to like repair this? Like, where do I start? oh um i mean like i said i just wish everybody could afford therapy so but if you can try to get you a good therapist that you can just talk freely to that can help you like and don't lie to them you know don't lie be transparent tell the truth have make sure that they they're pushing you and you need to not be afraid to do the work it's going to be painful it's going to be a lot of tears a lot of crying a lot of just like confusion but just know that you're growing like you know better right you're no you're you're understanding you a lot more and sometimes that that feels confusing to your body to your cells because you're literally being like rerouted like the way that your mind is is is being rewired so it's going to feel uncomfortable but just stay the course because I promise you that if you do the work there is going to be you're going to be like I never thought I would see the day I literally never thought that I would be this person it's like I planned I sort of planned it out but to live it out and to be living what I've dreamt about doing and the freedom in which I move.

23:23Cause it's not that like, you're not going to deal with issues and problems and things like that. But the way that I'm so solid with myself now, I didn't know, you know, I, I, I was free, but, but there are levels to it. Yeah. There are levels to it. So just stay the course and you'll reach the next level. I love that advice. Cause even hearing you talk, it's like, we all reach a point in life when we haven't dealt with our shit where it just starts coming up more and more relationships are failing friendships are having issues there's things at work like it just starts to creep up yeah and those are usually the moments where in a good way like you cannot deny you need to address it and i love that you said it's so fucking uncomfortable yeah but you got to do the work because then you won't be uncomfortable but you're going against something that you literally have been living this way your whole life yes so you're going like against the grain you're going against yourself your future self is fighting your past version old version of yourself damn it's like looper in a sense but different right right anyway um you mentioned now that you have a good relationship with your father and I can imagine there are people really relating to you today also of like how did you know it was time for that you were going to be able to forgive and have an actual relationship with your dad I wanted it you gotta want it too sometimes you're just like I don't really want a relationship just because you birthed or helped bring me into this world like as a person you can be like I don't really want this and that's totally fine I think I wanted it because my dad is cool like my dad also had a music career but drugs got in the way of that and so me and him can talk music he understands like all my favorite artists or his favorite artists when I put out lipstick lover all of the art that that I'm doing my dad supports it like he's like I want you to know as your dad I think what you're doing is brave is sick as fuck I love you I want you to know I got your back like as a black man in this living in this country I'm supporting you my queer non-binary um you know artistic daughter like I'm here for you and I knew he always had that sort of that's sort of where I get both my parents are like shows like they could each have their own tv show and people they would not care about me they'd be like your mom and your dad like you know they're not together because they're very much so alike in many ways.

25:58You know, they're super like flamboyant and their personalities can take up a room, but good, sweet people. So with my dad, I always knew that like when it was time to take risks, that was gonna be the person that was gonna affirm me. And I wanted that and I needed that. And also for him, I wanted to give him another opportunity post like being sober to know me you know to know me I think I think that that for both of us we needed that like I needed to have the support of of of my dad and I felt like for him to have been because he had also gone to prison so he had been locked away for years and I was like I want him to come out sober and to know what it's like to receive love from me yeah not guilt how old were you when your dad went to prison I'm timeless so yeah it doesn't matter I was there I was alive at some point yeah I know no but I was uh this it was on and off you know middle school elementary school high school yeah like always you're so successful in so many different areas like you're an author you're an actor you're a singer it's insane how talented you are and I'm thinking again it's always like we never know what someone goes through like yeah you rising to fame having your father you know having these struggles like were you ever just was he still struggling when you first came up and started to get yeah yeah well no he was that's when he sort of got got clean so that was great that was good I needed that right at that time because I was gonna say like damn like everyone probably seeing you in the tabloids and everything like having all this success and yet you want to repair a relationship with your father because there's nothing everyone can relate when you do something so good at work or in school or when you want to call your parents yeah and you because you know there's no one that's going to be more proud of you yeah and so I appreciate you sharing that a little bit because it's like yes you have all this success and but family and again when I say family I always make sure to clarify like I don't care if they're blood like you don't have to be with people that abuse you or whatever whatever you consider who your family is to be able to repair relationships if you want it yeah it is kind of beautiful because you get to share your life with people that love you and support you and there's no jealousy it's just like we fucking love you like your mom outside the talent shows yeah yeah mom it's really cute

28:59you are very private about your dating life yeah Yeah. How have you decided to make that decision in this crazy Hollywood world that we live in? I just did. I was like, hmm, I was watching, observing. I was like, you know, the people that actually are more private seem more happy to me. They just seemed more happy, you know, because it's like, you don't have to worry about, you know, anybody seeing your partner over here and been like oh they're not they're they they assume that if you're not with them and they're seen with somebody else that you broke up and now you got to go answer that question you have to go do that and perhaps maybe later on in life I'll open up a little more but for now I love having I love protect and it really is for the protection of of of them yeah um I I don't want them to you know because I can handle sort of like paparazzi or whatever it's annoying sometimes sometimes it's fun I love messing with them whatever but I never want anybody that I'm dating to ever feel pressure because they didn't ask for it you know they didn't ask for it so I just like to keep peace yeah and in harmony and no expectation from the public to know our every move I think that's really healthy and I think in a weird way I do always talk about on my show now like I feel like people now more than ever can kind of relate to a lack of privacy even if you have 500 followers like we have accessibility now to post as much as we want and I think there are people that feel societal pressure to like post my partner with me because it's like there's almost like social currency that comes with like being this it couple and having whether you're in college or high school like this is everywhere now where people are feeling pressured to prove something on the internet yeah and when you can actually step back from it i'm not saying don't post on the internet but like try to find a balance within yourself like why are you actually doing this why are you doing certain things is it just to get the photo to prove something to people right it's just it's not as healthy yeah you know like live some type of privacy is really good for yourself because then you can also be with yourself like do I like this person or do I like how I'm doing this or do I even want to do this right kind of have to like make sure you're not just doing it for the gram yeah no seriously I think because it's the norm to people to be like well you must post your kids and who you're dating and you know it's sort of like that's the norm these days um definitely I don't feel like anybody should feel pressure and I think that if you are in a relationship where they're like if you don't post me we're done I've had like people we were just talking about this when we were on vacay and there was a question like are would you be upset if your partner did not post you on social media and there were a lot of mixed questions I mean answers but I was just like we have to talk about that first and foremost and if we agree that we want to keep things private then no but also like if my love is defined by a post you don't post me enough on social media like I really need to understand my own damn like priorities in life is that really necessary for me so I just think it's like for me it's not um I do think people should have conversations around it prior so that there are no expectations and you know because it could hurt somebody's feeling too though if they feel like you're trying to hide them but that's deeper that's like y 'all need to really literally y 'all need to really work through some things yeah no that's true because I'm thinking about it like I feel like there are some people that also now because social media has been like very you know prevalent for the past I guess like 10 something years people may have been in relationships where someone was extremely adamant about posting them and they almost found like when we're good he posts me when we're not he doesn't post me so when you go to your next relationship i bet there are some people that have like lingering feelings about like well why aren't you posting me and someone could literally be like because i don't think we need to i love you we're sitting here together like isn't this better than us taking a selfie so also check in with yourself of like are you comparing yourself to your friends or your past relationships get on the same page as your current partner yes they may not be being shady at all they're actually like no i fucking love you and i don't feel like we need and i want or i want to protect you from you know all of the scrutiny or the you know just just things like that online world it's its own matrix and yeah you know it's it's tough it's wild what are you like in a relationship are you romantic are you dominant like what's the vibe over there um that was also we played this game called oh god I'm gonna uh I gotta get the get the name of it actually it's a a black guy who made the game card game so it's not a lot of us in that space so I really really have to get the name of it oh my god anyway one of the cards I can link it in the description okay when you if you have your team send it you're so sweet I got it I got it of course okay but the one of the questions was like what would your ex say about you and we were just like everybody was like oh wow that's a good one um I feel like now I am let me think I mean because you know it's like and so the question when the question made me be like well this is what I think about myself but what if that isn't what they thought about me like okay of course I'm gonna say glowing reviews about me you know or maybe like a couple things that I need to work on but you know it could have been some other things so for me if I was being honest in a relationship I mean I think I used to be a very like hard to know if I really loved them sort of person like it was hard to get to my heart because I had just been hurt and I hadn't really again dealt with sort of that trauma or of someone what it would feel like of somebody leaving me I never wanted anybody to leave um me and if they did I didn't want them to ever feel like I really loved you you know because like if you if I really told you that I really loved you and you we still didn't work then like wow what a stab in the heart right yep um but now having gone to this new space um I'm a big communicator I you know believe in evolution even in your partnerships and even if you started out one way I'm always open to us growing and I want to make sure that as we grow individually and as you know together um um I've also been in polyamorous relationships as well and I you know know what it's like to be with multiple partners so it's very important that you know we're communicating in real time about our feelings and if things are coming up like if if one person feels like okay um I'm having feelings of jealousy or I need some more time with both of you or you know uh how do we you know if we if we need to like work on some things I like to know that and I always welcome you know feedback um I'm that type of person like I don't I don't ever want to be in a relationship where uh I'm thinking we're good and we're not yeah like you're wondering like like just let me know yeah because I I could probably adjust we could adjust perhaps it was a misunderstanding or perhaps like oh you know maybe you thought you knew me or you knew how you you don't know how much I love you yeah I need to be more expressive in in those things and um so I think I'm averse I love it so I can be dominant

37:27sub like you know I'm non-binary as well so I can go with the I can go with the flow about things I love it meaning like I don't I don't just consider myself like to be boxed in as like this type of partner like sometimes you need me to be more like water okay okay I need to be more like water you need me to be more like a rock for us okay I'll be more like a rock for us how did you know was there like a conversation or did you just know the moment when you first had your first polyamorous relationship like how did you know that you were comfortable with that dynamic well I was already in a relationship and and the person who was attracted to me was also attracted to my partner and so they made it very clear and we just made it work okay would you would you continue to have those type of relationships again like are you still interested in that or has anything changed sure I'm open to love you know I'm like I think you know I love going to weddings and you know there are certain traditions that I love and congratulations I know you're engaged so I honor love and I think the love comes in different different variations and that is what I love about polyamory is it just shows us like just in the same way like I don't have just one best friend I have multiple best friends and I love y 'all you know we love each other and we can all hang out I don't just love one parent I don't just love one aunt like I love all of you and and um in relationships you know I think when intimate relationships partnerships I think that if we can talk about um what we need and what works for all of us and I'll tell you like it takes a lot of unlearning yeah because we're conditioned especially in this society that this is what a union looks like this is what um you know it's two people in a relationship you know um it it's like so you're you're you're fighting against or not fighting against but you're you're constantly having to unlearn uh uh the traditional way of of what love looks like and so I love to by being my authentic self and us being our authentic selves challenge that notion yeah I love that because what is very frustrating and I love having conversations like this on my show because you're right we were all raised with something that was like this is the norm and it's like I'm so happy finally I mean there's still so much work to be done but like even with sexuality and you know fluidity it's just like what like it's very frustrating I think for people that see it so clearly like let everyone do what they want to do and then people that are still so stuck in the way that they want things to have been done for thousands of years prior when you speak about polyamory like I can imagine there are people that are so judgmental of even that word like yeah how do you even do that and like yeah it's so small-minded and it's also like half the people that are saying that are speaking from a place of insecurity because i've seen people do it and be like isn't he cheating on his wife and like it's like there's so much judgment when when it something really frustrates someone i always believe like there's something internally that like is getting you going because why do you care so much yeah but how did you i'm assuming at some point you have dealt with judgment and to anyone listening that's also maybe like going against the norm which fuck the norm let's just make everything normal yeah how did you deal with that yeah always always always people are intrigued people think you know um i think all sorts of things but i think education is important i mean we have the internet people can look things up and i mean my close friends are super supportive um you know certain family members have been like hmm but for the most part my my circle of people that I have around have been supportive even if they have questions and they wonder like okay all right because also people are trying to figure out well hmm is that what I need or what we need or because I definitely been cheating on my significant other for a very long time but what if after all we just needed a third we needed somebody else you know that that loved us and we love them um to to to to be a part of our union yeah you know people are trying and people are scared I understand that too some people are scared to go against tradition and you know some people come from conservative environments I came from you know a conservative Baptist background where I was taught to fear everything you know even getting into the music industry I I was taught to just fear, you know, don't be like this artist or don't be like that.

42:27Or, you know, it was just been a lot of unlearning and, and I get that. And I, and I think, I think though, for me, I, I have to know that this is my life here on earth. I wasn't put here to, um, um, to follow every rule. I was, I was put here to help rewrite them. Yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate you talking about that because it's just such a prevalent topic that's still like is we again, we have so much movement that we need to keep doing. But I think having conversations like this help. I'm curious to know, like, how did you decide obviously being a public figure to speak openly about your sexuality?

43:07Oh, how did I decide it sort of like decided for me because my art is a direct reflection of who I am. You know, I have Metropolis, which is my first EP. I have a lot of independent work I put out before that. And then I did the Arc Android, my first full length album, Sweets. Then I did the Electric Lady, Dirty Computer, and all the way now to the Age of Pleasure. And all those projects that have come out, I discovered that, I mean, I knew when I was a child that I was attracted to not just boys, but to women and to energies. I knew that. And because of my sort of conservative Baptist upbringing, it wasn't welcome.

43:53I suppressed my sexuality. I suppressed my sensuality. I suppressed so much of me because I didn't feel safe. And so once I got to a place where, okay, I know for sure, for sure that, you know, I am attracted to, you know, these energies.

44:19I'm going to honor that. And with each project, you can hear me and feel me getting more brave. You know, I created the android Cindy Mayweather, who is representative of in my work, who's representative of the other, you know, the queer person, the black person, the non-binary person, trans, all of all of us who are pushed to the margins of society. And so I use that as a form of like a form of coping, a coping mechanism until I was brave enough to actually say it. And I think I was always dropping hints and I was getting more brave and, you know, less afraid. And then finally, because also I was in a relationship in what some would say, you know, it was a lot of things like, you know, understanding, you know, polyamory.

45:18is was something that I wanted to explore well if you're already in a relationship you have to go have conversations with that person's family well what does that mean for you guys and so I could not talk publicly about certain things because they impacted my real everyday life you know what I'm saying like when I got off the stage I would also have to go see these communities that I was a part of and like if they heard about it through you know any other thing outside of like me saying it then what does that mean and I just wasn't ready to have those sorts of conversations and so I guess to answer your question like you know I just got brave over time and once I also felt like I had community because the albums and the art and music what it also does is it signals like hey I'm out here I'm out here and then you meet people who come to your shows and you meet other artists and people other humans who like are like oh I identify with that or I fuck with that and then we become friends and you have a community now that supports you yeah that sees you that even if your family you were born into doesn't support you or see you you have support and so once I felt supported and I felt safe enough that's when I started to become even more brave and I um I started to be courageous in the way that I started to live my life and I think right now what I am doing I've done this privately is that I'm honoring all of me I'm not closing off you know my sensuality anymore I'm not closing off my sexuality my polyamory you listen to only have eyes 42 you know that's honoring that sort of union um if you're listening to hot from the age of pleasure or champagne shit or even float yeah you know you know I I'm feeling much lighter now I float I had to let some things go um to get to this place and fear of not being accepted was one of them and once I got over that hump everything started to change for me community when you were saying that like I hope everyone listening if you're sitting listening to this or watching this in your room and you haven't been able to fully embrace your sexuality whether it's people around you you're afraid how they're going to accept you like there are so many people out there that will love you and like are so having the same feelings as you and so just don't limit yourself to just the people that you've been assigned as family to you absolutely it gets better it does yep as you start walking whenever you're ready don't feel pressure too yeah because I mean there were moments where um I felt the pressure to talk like interviewers would they would just speculate based on my appearance because I was wearing a suit they were like hmm you're a lesbian.

48:07Like that's what I would get. You're a lesbian. And, you know, as I was trying to discover who I was and I didn't identify with being a lesbian, I, you know, and I had lesbian friends. I love my lesbian family, but like people would say certain things and try to force me to out what I was. Well, if you're not a lesbian, then what are you? And so I wasn't ready. So don't feel also feel pressured to talk about your sexuality it is a private it can be as private or as public as you want it to be um for me it was seeping out into my art so much that like I'm like yeah this is this is me yeah this is who I am and I wanted to also free a lot of people who were in their rooms who could be in their rooms right now listening like you have family you have a church even outside of the the church that you went to if they just own you like there is a big church around the world with people who will affirm you people who are like you your identity is not new like it's been happening we're here we're showing up for each other and I love you I love you

49:36when i was researching um i i read somewhere you don't refer to opening up to others about your sexuality as coming out but rather coming in can you explain that i didn't actually come up with that terminology of coming in i just thought it resonated with me more um a guy by name of John I forgot his last name but I heard him say it and he he's a queer black man and I heard him and I was like that's exactly what it is it is bringing people bringing people into our worlds I'm letting you in on who I am versus like you guys are the norm and I'm just like hi I'm out here like no I'm letting you in to my world which is sacred which should be respected and appreciated most certainly not apologetic about it I love that you're so right because it's like I'm letting you in on who I am I don't you don't deserve me I don't have to come out to you I don't owe you anything exactly like when I feel comfortable I'll let you in like come clean yeah you're come out of the closet yeah I'm sorry I've been here you just must not have seen me um or I'm not even you must not have seen me you must think that you and your or you know what let's not even talk about that nope I was gonna go down a whole stream I could too yeah how about this do you have a mantra you come back to when it comes to people who actively do not agree with the way that you live?

51:12Ooh, yeah, I do. I have so much. I wish I had my phone with me. But I think it comes down to power. You know, I think like when you give your power up to folks, like people's opinions have more power over you than how you feel about you. That's, I think, where things take that turn, where the depression sets in, where the constant need for approval comes in. And I think I'm a powerful ass motherfucker, you know, really. Just as you are powerful, we're all powerful, right? We all hold gifts that we have. And I think that, you know, again, how I think about myself has to be more powerful than someone who is trying to take me down through their negativity, who is trying to oppress me through their fear.

52:07my power and my love for myself is greater than that mic drop yeah mic drop what is something when it comes to dating and love that you know now that you wish you knew when you were younger sheesh man um I would say I wish I had discovered vibrators a long time ago like honestly it's so fun to experience that with your partner it's phenomenal it's so great it's like what going to the sex shop like I remember when I first went see again when you come from those sort of like conservative backgrounds a sex shop I was full sunglasses on like do not have me in here oh my god what am I oh my god please nobody take photos of me like I did not know right I did not know the world of vibrators i did not know the clitoral stimulation that you and your the fun y 'all can have with one you know it doesn't necessarily have to be penetration it's life-changing right how about you i remember i i didn't have one and my friend bought me one for my birthday in college and i i remember like the first time i tried something with the back of my electric toothbrush and I was like I ain't gonna front no the electric toothbrushes if you're if you forget just go buy you a brand new one it slaps it's gotten me through it's gotten me through it is a lifesaver and so I I felt the same way though of I my friend got me my first one and then I was like oh my god like I never have to have sex again like this is amazing like right it just allowed me to recognize that like I hold the power of like my own orgasm and like I I don't need someone else to make me feel amazing.

53:59Like I can do it myself because being taught, like we grow up and it's just like, the men will do this for you. And like you, and I'm like, why am I going to wait for a motherfucker to give me an orgasm? Like this is amazing. Exactamundo. Don't wait for a man or anyone to give you, you can do it yourself. So I remember I felt the same way in New York. I remember the first sex shop I went to with my friend. I was not famous, but I was mortified just being like, I just can't make eye contact. and I think that just comes from like shame of like we're not normalizing like like exploring your sexuality and enjoying especially as women like enjoying sex loving sex being connected with your body and I think it's so important that we start to have those conversations at younger ages obviously in a safe way but like yeah especially for young girls you just start to like feel shame and like you're doing something wrong and that's why so many women I truly believe like we have such a hard time in the beginning like figuring out what works for us and knowing how to like get off because we were like it was basically like don't touch yourself you're a whore you're a slut and it's like oh what or you're a deviant or like touching yourself gross you know like if it was not you go get a boyfriend and y 'all wait but don't have sex actually until you're married so go marry to have sex like I have cousins who actually married women just to have sex because they were just like god won't it's a lie it's a lie and i'm i i i will always just like you know say like my heart goes out to to those of us who have clitorises and and and and just not just those of us who are with clitoris even you know for for those of us who have penises or whatever it is the pleasure that we can give ourselves like how that was stripped away from us um I just hope that we can reconnect again with our bodies and reclaim our bodies that's the space that I'm in like I am reclaiming my sensuality my my sexuality my pleasure like unapologetically like I'm not apologizing for talking about it for taking time to myself to make up for lost times I mean I think I could have avoided a lot of just even sexual interactions with people who I didn't really like but I just was like well here we go this is the only way that I can feel less shame about sex is if I do it with this person but like that leads to so much confusion sometimes if you don't really really really like this person and they don't really really like you and it's a whole thing and so I think you actually avoid um you have less stress when you take matters into your own hands literally absolutely okay everyone listening today we are entering our era of the art of pleasure okay we're taking it into our own hands yes we are um I know we've been kind of like essentially talking about it this whole episode because we're talking about pleasure and finding our own voices to find that pleasure but what has been the most rewarding part of making this soundtrack for you yeah i mean just like you know we're talking about it's a soundtrack to a lifestyle and i think so many people or you know that i'm that i'm hearing that's why i can't wait to go on tour i'm on tour our first show is in seattle the end of august we're on tour so get your tickets we have some more a little bit more available um but they're selling out right now and I'll be on tour in North America through October 21st the age of pleasure tour and so to see how people are like making this their album owning it and like with their friends I see them just certain songs they're like oh my god you're speaking to my heart like I needed to hear float I needed to give myself permission to to let things go and and to go into my you know a stage of like what hot is talking about like I look good I look sexy I look handsome like non-binary folks are feeling seen trans folks are being seen like the community in which I intended for it to be and even outside of that I think that you don't necessarily have to be a part of my community to to to vibe with it i think that what it just represents is like even in the midst of chaos you got to find your pleasure you have to make time for yourself and i actually brought you something what what so here oh my god official age of pleasure i cut mine i was gonna say it's so cute no it's so cute you know i'm gonna do this like it's so cute i wanted to bring you a shirt and if you need another side no this is so good no I'm can I cut it like you know like me I'm just copying you but I've been staring at it and like it's such a it's yours thank you I adore you it's so dope I wanted to bring you hand this is so good a handwritten autographed you a copy of my book that I released in 2021 called The Memory Librarian.

59:27Thank you so much. The other story of Dirty Computer. And yes. This is bringing the gifts. Girl I know you just got back from vacation. I did. You're giving us all you're getting us in our feels. We're all ready to go have sex with ourselves. Come on. We got a book. We got a shirt. on okay to anyone that is like you got to tell us what is if you have to pick what is your favorite song on the soundtrack oh shoot wow everyone's gonna go listen to this one it's so okay it varies because all of them man i i mean i hate to say it but it's it's um it's not a long album i usually put out like excuse me like double albums and with this one I wanted you to want to replay it over and over and over again I didn't want to excuse me I didn't want it to be too long because this one was just on um President Barack Obama's um Song of Summer Only Have Eyes 42 for two uh so listen to that one I mean but I love every last song on this project I'm having a hard time like figuring out what songs we're going to play on tour I think I might have to just play all of them i don't know but because i love i could i also thought about them from a live perspective and just yeah how fun it's gonna be to perform champagne shit and it's gonna be insane and i don't know what songs were you vibing to what are some of your favorites champagne shit um is it called phenomenal i really like that one like featuring doji yeah it's a vibe we're like I don't know I really like that one like but again I it feels like it's a story that's being told and you're just like it's almost like an anthem vibe where you're just like vibing the whole time so I I agree I guess I couldn't like pick one too because it you almost have to like listen to it all together like start to finish like feel it because the dry red is good the last song I love um I when I was writing this album I wrote it with friends I got to give a shout out to Nate Rocket Wonder to Bueno to Nana Quabana and also the features like some of my favorite things is just to look down and be like okay Grace Jones is literally on this album you know sister Nancy who is like bomb bomb you know we can't go anywhere at a party without hearing her Jamaican influence Patra her Jamaican influence um when I think about um Nia Long who is an incredible actress coming and being a part of it.

1:02:03Amore, Dochi, who else? Fela, Kuti-san, Shehun Kuti, lots of horns on this project. CK's on this project. I don't know. It's just so like such a beautiful love letter to the diaspora and to music that again has gotten us through, you know. a lot of the influences come from a lot of my friends who were in you know who are from Nigeria at our parties Ghana South Africa LA New York Atlanta you know all of us coming together and and feeling safe yeah safe enough to explore safe enough to be Janelle I can't thank you enough for coming and call her daddy this was truly such a pleasure I'm so happy I got to sit in the same room with you and feel your energy thank you thank you you are fantastic alex thank you so much for having me and all the beautiful work you do like i don't really love doing lots of interviews but you have a very great way of of connecting human to human with folks and i'm sure people tell you that a lot but i'll just say like i feel your aura and your energy through the screen and just congratulations on everything.

1:03:25Thank you. You're fantastic. You're lovely. Thank you. Woo!