Jenn Tran: You're Not Crazy...He's an Ass

0:02What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with call her daddy. Jen Tran, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited you're here. We have to give the daddy gang context of what we've been doing. Yes. So I'm upstairs. I'm prepping for the interview. I hear that Jen is here. I walk down the stairs and I hear like, where's the tequila? Where's the tequila? And I'm like, no, no, in a great way. And like, because I never know what the vibes are going to be from people. And I'm like, Jen, what's going on? And you're like, let's take shots. Like, I love it.

0:36Why did you want tequila today? You know, I knew this was going to be a fun time. I knew we were going to like shoot the shit and just have fun. And like, what's the point of doing it without a little bit of tequila? No, I'm so happy. Also to give context, this is why my job is the best. I'm like, it is one o 'clock on a Friday. And usually on a Friday, I'm like, ooh, maybe you can start drinking at like four o 'clock with Jen. It's like, it is one o 'clock. We are drinking tequila. We have our drinks. We have our seltzers. Congratulations. Thank you. You are about to be this season's bachelorette.

1:22congratulations thank you you are about to be this season's bachelorette um the show is about to come out how are you feeling i'm honestly really excited for everyone to just see it like i feel like this whole chapter in my life like happened and i haven't seen anything about it yet So it's like, did it really happen or not? But like, obviously it did. So I'm really excited for everyone to see it. And I think, you know, there's a lot of opinions on the season. So I just, I know how amazing it's going to be. And I know like what a journey it was for me. And I'm so excited. well speaking of opinions what are you talking about like from your perspective what are you talking about like there's a lot of opinions on the season yeah I mean there's no like running around it like I came back from filming and there was a lot of people um wanting somebody else or wishing that I was American so there's there's a lot of racism around it too and there's just a lot of people who want to have input on it and and wish that it was somebody else and whatnot so I think that you just can't win you know people were like she's too boring or she's too crazy she wants to take shots it's like god forbid I want to take a shot I didn't know that once you get engaged you can't take a shot or once you get find love you can't take a shot so I mean it's it's crazy how many people have an opinion about it okay can we talk about that for a minute because I I agree I feel like people have always like there's no secret that like if you look up the lineup of The Bachelor and The Bachelorette like it is a lot of white people that have like historically been like the leads and I'm so fucking happy.

2:52We're African-Americans. Yes yes we're African-Americans and I think that you being the first Asian-American is so fucking incredible but also it's like why why is that the focus of people's negativity like how did you feel when you're seeing those comments and shit? In a weird way it makes me feel validated that there needs to be changed, right? Because I lived my whole life having, you know, some people telling me racism doesn't exist. Like Asians don't have to deal with it. Like you're the better minority. Nobody cares. And to have these things about me said online, particularly about my race, like it just validates the fact that there is so much hate in people's hearts still.

3:31And it's still such a prevalent thing in this day that I'm happy to take on the brunt of it if it means that I'm making a change for people that are going to come after me you know first of all I thank you for saying that because I think like it's not your job to like be a spokesperson for it but now that you're in this position like I can imagine so many young girls are like let's fucking go Jen like yes representation I also feel like I said to you before we started I'm like you came in here and your energy and your vibe is like I feel like we could be friends and you smell amazing I just have to say that I'm sorry this whole studio everyone is nodding their head this whole studio smells amazing you smell so good I'm gonna need to get your perfume it's Caroline Herrera I was it's funny because I was in a hotel room I need to want a perfume and my producer was like you're literally going to a podcast like no one's gonna smell you through the camera I was like I was like I don't care I need to smell good at all times it's affecting me and I'm like oh this is fabulous a little tequila a little Caroline Herrera perfect I'm seducing you too it's perfect it's perfect I'm getting in the vibes I'm getting in the mood I need to know where you were and how you felt when you got the call of the bachelorette like take me to that moment yeah it was crazy I mean like things have been in the works for like months at that point and I just like didn't know what was gonna happen and you know the clock was ticking down so I was like maybe it's just not me maybe it's just not happening but like we've had meetings about it and interviews about it so it was in the back of my head and I was getting back from the gym I was in my car um and I just get like this text from like one of like the producers being like do you want to hop on a call really quick.

5:00And I was like, Oh, God, what could this be? And I kind of knew, but I was also like really nervous, because I felt like, you know, my whole life was going to change. But obviously, it was also like, did I really want it? Like, I had been thinking about it for months and months. And it's a big change. You know, it's like, I'm a very private person. So it's like, do I really want my whole life to be on blast like this? And I knew that I was going to have to take a lot of heat for many different reasons. And, and so I was like, yes, I want to find love but is this the capacity that I want to do it in and so it took a while for me to like think about it but I mean I hopped on the call and immediately I was like obviously yes I'm gonna do it right right it's just so crazy because you're right and I think that's what people forget is like it we've now watched The Bachelor for so many seasons we love The Bachelor franchise but like this does completely change your life and like before all of this you're a um physician's assistant I'm watching a student I'm watching your tiktoks you're like going into surgery like getting them prepped and I'm like this is a big shift from you being in like scrubs and like doing your thing during the day to then like now the whole world is about to watch you hopefully fall in love yes I had Maria on and she was really open about like they had offered me the role it wasn't right for me like can you tell me from your experience like seeing all the conversation around like Maria or Daisy like how how did that how did you like feel about everything yeah so obviously I didn't have my phone at the time all this was like going down because we had went right into filming um after it was all announced and coming back to all of that yeah obviously I was really disappointed to see all that because I mean the truth of the matter is like there's a lot of narratives out there and they're not necessarily the truth um you know the show has been going on for years and years 21 years of this show specifically and every season there are multiple people in contention for the role multiple people are being interviewed or doing meetings about it all doing fittings or filming intro packages and it's never really you until it's you um interesting so that's why i was a little disappointed is because you know the narratives out there aren't exactly the truth and i think that um when you look at it all like the show has been going on for so long and um you know look based on the history of it all like there's always multiple people.

7:19So it's not you until it's you. Oh my God. Okay. Wait, I didn't even think about that. You before all of these things were happening, you were in the middle of filming. Yeah. Wait. So like when that Call Her Daddy episode came out, you didn't even know that Maria came on the show. I would know I hadn't seen it until I had gotten back. Yeah. Oh my God. Okay. So you had, it wasn't like a last minute thing people are asking you. No, no, no, no. I had, we had meetings about it. We talked about it for months and then they asked me and I had the choice and I chose to do it. I said yes and the thing with like the narrative sets out right now is like it was disappointing to come back from this incredible journey for myself um and then to see all the speculation around it and to almost have these things kind of take away from what my journey was you know I'm kind of at a point in my life where like I'm not gonna let anyone take claim to that I'm not gonna let anyone like like I don't know like have some sort of role in that because my entire life You know, the way I grew up was kind of crazy.

8:17And then, you know, I've always like thought about others first. And I went into health care because I care about other people so much. And it's been it took a while for me to really find my voice in certain things. And this is something that like, I'm so proud to be able to say, like, this is my time and this is my journey. And that's what I want it to be focused on, because I'm able to have a voice now to talk about it and to be able to stand my ground on it is that this is my journey. I'm so happy about it. And I'm so happy for everyone to like finally see that. I appreciate you sharing this because I can imagine from your perspective when you come out.

8:52Yeah. I think a lot of people were like, oh, like Jen's the runner up and Jen's just doing this. And like now hearing from you, you're like, we know like all of us were in talks and all of us were making these decisions and everyone was kind of up for it. I'm sure there was like three to four people that were in conversation. Have you talked to the other women? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, everything's good. You know, that's the thing about being in this world and being mature and being and having like, you know, just like just knowing what world you're in and being a person and being mature about it all is that like we're all fine.

9:27Yeah. And it's all good. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about your life before reality TV. Where did you grow up? I grew up in New Jersey. Jersey girl. Yes. I was a PA girl, but I went to school in Jersey for high school. Oh, really? Where? In like Princeton area. Oh, okay. Okay, so Jersey. Yes, North Jersey. And then I went to school at Pittsburgh for like a year and a half. Okay. Then I transferred to Wisconsin. Love. Go Badgers. I know. And then after Wisconsin, I moved to Boston for a couple of years. And that's kind of where my family resides right now. What were you like in high school? In high school?

9:59Honestly, I was really shy. Okay. I was really still kind of like coming into my own. And like I played sports. I played basketball. I played lacrosse. So like that's kind of where I was like more outgoing or like more like found myself like having like a group of friends kind of thing but still like I was really really shy and I don't really think I fully understood like who I was yet um and I mean even like in middle school like I was like the most awkward kid ever I had such an awkward face I was like the chubbiest kid ever and like I remember I had a crush on this guy and I remember I was like stalking him um like it was like after school and I was waiting for him to like come down the stairs or whatever because I knew what class he had because I was crazy or whatever and I I saw him coming down and his friends were making fun of me for liking him they were like oh my gosh like Jen Tran has a crush on you like how funny like that's crazy and like that was my middle school life essentially yeah I relate to that and I every time I meet people that are like no like high school was a breeze or like middle school was a breeze I'm like oh well fuck you yeah like what do you mean what the hell yeah like now I'm like so grateful for like not feeling that way but back in the day it's like when you struggle with that it's like it can like affect you obviously socially but the thing is it builds character like I'm so happy that I had an awkward phase that I was like a little weird or like whatever it was because I think it makes you more grateful for like who you are now and I'm grateful for like figuring myself out so much more now I agree did making friends come easy to you in high school um yes and no like because I played club sports like it was easy to like be friends with them and kind of stuff but I think like internally like I was having such a like who am I like how do I be cool like how do I just like like have everyone love me kind of thing and I wasn't really falling into like who I am and at the time like I was really still struggling with like figuring out my identity in terms of like like my Vietnamese culture and like the American culture because my both my parents are immigrants and they're both like very very Vietnamese to the core so I grew up with a lot of those values and there weren't a lot of people like me in my town.

12:06So I think it was a bit harder for me to like relate to people because I was going through so much at such a young age. So it was a lot of that. I'm curious, like did ever having like you're saying like you kind of had this like push and pull of like, oh my gosh, like I want to lean into my culture, but then also the kids around you are not like that. Like did it ever make you pull away more for your from your family or lean more into your family? I definitely pulled away a lot when I was growing up because it was just I wanted to be like everybody else right like when you're at that age and you're growing up and you just want to fit and you want to be like everybody else um but it wasn't really until college where I got really exposed to a lot more diversity um and I also got tired of kind of like hiding who I am you know like college is like that new like sense of like you you get a chance to like rewrite yourself almost so I was able to really do that in college and like embrace everything that makes me me and really embrace like my Vietnamese culture as well as like me growing up in America you know it's hard though when you're in those moments to like have perspective exactly um how are you with boys like high school college like what was the vibe Jen you know I had a lot of issues like because I had an awkward phase in middle school and then high school like I kind of started was still awkward but like started growing into my own a little bit and then towards the end of high school I'd say I really wanted to explore and then I got into college and I really um really wanted to explore as well and I was a little boy crazy and I ended up in a lot of bad situations that maybe I shouldn't have been in tell me everything I love how you're like I wanted to explore like such like a graceful way of saying like I had my face I went for it I did okay what do you mean you went down past it maybe you shouldn't have I just I think I really use my body for a lot of whatever you know and I think that I wasn't really fully respecting myself in those times um and at one point like I just didn't know how relationships worked right like I my parents were divorced and I never really had a good role model of love so like going into college with that perspective it didn't really help and I was entering relationships that like were really bad for me like one time I was so delusional naive that I was you know seeing this guy who essentially had a girlfriend but I didn't know he had a girlfriend got it until I did know but then he kept telling me you know I like we're broken up it's no big deal he was living with the girl at the time like and he drove me freaking insane he drew me freaking insane he would make dates up with me he'd be like yeah meet me at this place at 9 p.m and then he'd go home to his girlfriend block my number so that every message i sent him afterwards would turn green and little naive jen was like maybe he's going through a tunnel for like hours and hours and he just doesn't have service like he's going through a tunnel i know like i was insane and then my college roommates had to deal with this like i would knock on the door and be like oh my gosh like he's not answering me what do i do like he's in a tunnel again the tunnel aka he's like inside his girlfriend tonight and yes the tunnel is his girlfriend jen it was crazy no but it's so relatable like i have an episode that is either coming out or will have come out that i'm talking about like when you are in the early stages of dating and you were insecure when you were younger which i was you can kind of find yourself almost not even like evaluating your boundaries like you don't have boundaries you're just so happy someone's giving you attention yeah and it's so intoxicating and it can be so like overwhelming that you don't have time that now you look back and you're like why didn't someone like literally like slap me across the head and be like wake up he's not in a tunnel bitch he's a girlfriend but like oh he oh they did i had so many friends that did that it wouldn't even matter it doesn't matter right no no no it's like the tunnel yeah yeah you're like no no he told me He loved me yesterday.

15:52So like it's fine. Like it's crazy. The things that I delusionally believed in back at the time. And I appreciate you because obviously like my main demographic is women. I appreciate you saying like I didn't like fully respect my body at the time. I think that's like sadly a very relatable thing because I think we still live in a man's world. And if you're like going for these relationships, you want men to like you. Yes. you want them to see you and you want to like you want the attention and the validation and you can't give it to yourself yet because like you being you so far you've just gotten like no success or you're like feeling bad about yourself so when a guy starts to give you attention you're like me yeah like me and then if they start to act out you're like oh that doesn't matter me yes and then you're like what more can i do to like keep this attention going and then you drive yourself insane and how long did that last tunnel boy can you call him tunnel boy probably like four six months six months four years no god no god no six months but see and then at the time i like there was a turning point in that where i when i realized i was like oh he's like insane like he was actually like a sociopath and would like lie to me like crazy and like would never like own up to it and then there was a turning point where i was like okay wait now i'm gonna play the game Like if he's going to lie to me and do all this, like I'm going to do that.

17:12So then I started using him for like dinner and drinks and all this stuff. And then he'd be like, oh, can I come back to your apartment? Because I could never go to his. Right. And I'd be like, sorry, like I got class early in the morning. Like I got to go. But thanks for dinner. Like, you know, I'm obsessed with you just casually because I could never go to his because he has a girlfriend. Oh, my gosh. But you know, what's crazy is like that seems to be the most beautiful turn of events when you are just like under someone's thumb and you're just getting played and played and played and then i don't know what it is the sunrise is a little different that morning or like your phone looks a little different everything looks a little different and you're like oh my god motherfucker wait a fucking second like it's over for you i've now i because it's like the repetitiveness of the cycle of them treating you like shit just one day you're like what if i just what if i just tilted it a little bit this way and all of a sudden you're now like in a little bit more of a position of power yes and then they really lose their shit because they're like yes they're like wait a second wait she suddenly she knows what's going on like standing up for herself wait a second she has self-respect that's not the girl that I wanted okay so you have like you went through it in college oh for sure I just had so many crazy relationships and then even after college I think I was still finding myself or I was I was growing more confident into who I am but not growing confident in like what I wanted in a relationship and knowing what I wanted in that wait what kind of guys were you going for in college did you have a type I mean at the time the guy that had a girlfriend was like somebody that i worked with in the restaurant he was like kind of my boss so like i had like a boss thing i have like a power complex i don't i don't know like a boss thing yeah like it was weird but he wasn't that much older like he was like a year or two wait so after he's like ignoring you in the tunnel would we go to work together the next day and he'd act like everything was fine and he's like oh baby i'm so sorry like let me take you out tonight like it i was batshit crazy i was like i believed him because we worked together it was like he cannot be this crazy to lie to me and then go to work with me we also that like make such a weird dynamic too because you also have to like somewhat respect your boss so naturally you're like even if you wanted to be mad at him you can't you're taking orders from this man which then becomes kind of hot again that's the hot part of it yes now you're getting it you're like you've never had sex with your boss i'm like god let me think back like i was tempted oh my god okay Jen this is like great information we're loving this we're loving this but that era is close right yeah I had to learn a little bit and it was crazy but no and I hope you know I love these stories too because I obviously know what we're about to watch on the bachelorette it's like I'm hoping I know you're not wearing a ring but like we're obviously hoping you're engaged if that was what was meant to be but I just was talking about a situation I had in college where I had this guy that just kept it moving and like every every day it was a different thing and I was just trying to hold on for dear life right and I'm married and I talk about it though because when you look back at those things you have such different perspective and it almost is like you feel yes somewhat bad for yourself but not anymore once you've been that far away you're like whoa it just makes you empathetic towards other women that get themselves in that position where you know how easy it can be to fall into that when you're not in a good place with yourself exactly and that I think is like there's no judgment like I'm sure there's so many girls listening right now that are at that place babes we've been there too been there been there we've been there in the trenches the only person that can pull yourself out of it is you and you just gotta like work through it and work through your insecurities and find your self-respect and yeah I mean I had so many friends trying to pull me out of it and I just didn't lesson I just was like well what do you mean like he likes me they're like he has a girlfriend you're like yeah but he likes me no no okay you've I know you mentioned on your season of The Bachelor and you've mentioned today and I'm not ignoring you I just I wanted to get to that place of like lightly talk about dating but like yeah your parents dynamic yeah obviously like we all are the way that we are because of like whatever happened in our home when we were younger if you had to describe like your view of like love and marriage from your upbringing like how would you describe it I would say like what I saw between my parents like wasn't a true partnership so what I kind of learned from that over the years is that marriage is a partnership and it's not one person doing everything.

21:42It's not one person calling the shots. It's not one person like succumbing to the other's power. It's really like a true partnership. And, you know, that's really what I want is to have a partner in it all and to have somebody really be on the same page as me and want the same things as me. And that's the only way like something's really going to work, right? Like love is in it, yes. But the partnership part of that has to be there too. Do you mind giving a little context of like what happened when you were younger with your parents dynamic yeah yeah so I think you know my parents just started fighting at a really young age um and my mom was the type like I think she grew up in kind of like a different culture in Vietnam where like the women like they cook they clean they do everything you know for their husbands um and I saw a lot of that growing up and so it just it wasn't healthy for them and then they started fighting but my mom would still do everything for my dad.

22:38And then, you know, my dad wasn't really a part of my life all that much when I was growing up. At least I have a brother who's nine years older. So he kind of has a different perspective on the whole thing because he's older than I am. And he spent more years with my dad. But when I came into the picture, my dad was really like living in the basement for most of my life and not really involved in like my school sports or like my schooling or like just like my everyday activities or anything. So I didn't have a relationship with him really and then at one point in college um our relationship was like cut off for good we just kind of got into like a little tiff and it was just um he decided he didn't want to be a part of my life anymore and you know it's sad you know to like think about it but I also think that everything happens for a reason and I'm so much better for it and I've grown so much more you know if somebody doesn't want to be a part of your life Like, why are you going to force them to?

23:30Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, growing up, like it was very tumultuous. Like it was very much like I almost want to say like it was like a survive or not kind of environment. Like there was just so much fighting, so much aggression, so much just I felt like I was in the background a lot of the times. And that's not to the fault of anybody. Like my mom did the best that she could. You know, she she worked and she was a full time parent and like she just like did so much for the family, too. um so I would never want to discredit her but I think there was a lot that I had to work through internally and by myself because I felt like I was almost forced to be independent at a young age that can like I mean thank you for sharing that first of all I I think that can really really just like shape the way in so many ways that you become resilient and like you said you become independent you become this like self-reliant person where you know like there are some kids that are so fortunate that are like I have my mom and my dad or my mom and my mom or my dad and my dad um and then when you don't have that you just learn that that's the norm and that's like and I think that's so beautiful that you're saying that on the other hand like that's like really hard for a young kid to like you you know mentioning like there was aggression there was this like that can make you kind of either turn inward or like act out like I feel like there's always like you can either go one way or another and then yeah to have that comment about like college like that's so sad obviously and I and I totally understand what you're saying there's like a positive to it but then that is like sad because it is a form of rejection yeah yeah and that's tough yeah and I think that's why like for the longest time I pushed off like my past growing up and my past with my dad because I was like it doesn't affect me in my everyday life because I've forgotten about it but it does play a role in my relationships and who I am right like it takes me a lot to have to ask somebody for help because I've grown up so independently like I can I can put together furniture I can do whatever like I'm very independent at like regulating my own emotions and all this stuff and I don't have to ask anybody for it but that can affect my relationships in a lot of ways because then you're not really letting anybody in on like who you are and what you're going through right it affects like relationships whether it's like friendships or like with boyfriends and whatnot too right that's so interesting I like the that's I love talking about that on my show like the effects of like whatever happened to all of us in our childhoods like how do we start to lightly see that play out right how do you think your relationship with your dad impacted the type of relationships you pursued so much I mean I went through so many bad relationships and picked so many bad guys because what I think is I was so like I've gone through a lot of therapy but like obviously like still like I still think like it's good to go through therapy and to talk about these things and I'm learning so much more every day about like what my past means to me now but what I think is that I'm so addicted to someone who doesn't give me everything because I've been so used to working for things in my life working for love and affection working for success that like I like guys who don't give me everything all at once because I've been so used to like to that environment and I've also been really used to like this fight or flight like feeling since like growing up because like the way that I grew up was so there there was a lot of aggression there and it was just like I had to deal with all the fighting and then go to school and like forget about it or try to and whatever so it was a lot of like pushing things back and I think that in my relationships I think that I um really went towards people who gave me that fight or flight feeling again like people who would like give it to me but like take it back and then like that toxicity you know oh girl you're in therapy I'm like oh you just like literally spit out exactly what you're oh you're like at that point where you're like oh let me just tell you exactly my self-diagnosis but really it's from your therapist you're like let me tell you what I've learned no it's it's fascinating I appreciate you sharing that because I think prior to like I don't know the past few years like it would have been like taboo to even like acknowledge like how our parents fucked us up and even when people have perfect parents kids are still fucked up somehow from whatever and like so I think that is really like you're very self-aware in those patterns yeah what led you to the bachelor like how are we signing up how did we get there yeah and like did you have any like social media presence prior to that yeah so I did so I did so funny enough like I don't want to give credit to my ex the toxic ex but but like we were in that toxic relationship and then I got out of it and I was at a place in my life where I was in PA school and I just needed an outlet and I was like I've always been just like creative and and like have liked vlogging I guess like I don't know I've always like you know like wanted to be like a YouTuber at the age of 12, but I never did, you know, so we would have been friends.

28:23We would have been friends. So then I took to TikTok and I started talking about like my PA school stuff and my everyday life because I knew there was a market for it and nobody really knows what a PA does. So I was like, this is great. I can talk about my PA school life and have this creative outlet that I wanted aside from school. And then somebody came across my TikTok and DMed me and was like, I'm a casting producer for The Bachelor. Like, I really like your TikToks. Like, would you want to like interview for it? And at the time I was like, this is a joke. I was going to say, did you think it was fake?

28:54God, no. I think it was like spam. I was like, what's going on? I was just kind of like, just like, no way. And I, but I was like, this is intriguing. Like I would maybe do an interview and see where it goes. But like, I'm in school. I would never actually do this, nor would my school actually ever let me do this. So I did the interviews, whatever. And it came to a point where they were like sending me contracts and they were like, can you please sign like and do this? Like whatever. And I was like, oh, I just don't know. and I don't know that I got into like a kind of a bad boating accident with my friends and it sounds dramatic because I almost did die but like I hate talking about it because I'm like everybody was fine but there was a boat that basically rammed into us and this was like a week before I was supposed to go on the show and I was like well I almost died so I'm gonna do it um so I called my school and I was like hey have this opportunity hold on that's literally the headline i know jen almost dies prior to bachelor she made it we're here what literally was insane like i was on a boat with my friends and like this car this boat was coming right at us didn't see us and i was sitting in the exact place where the boat would have decapitated me and thank god i was paying attention because i jumped to the other side of the boat so quickly and we got into a crash like whatever but like everybody's fine after that like thank god but they were in miami this was in the in the keys yeah yeah but it was really that moment where i was like i almost just died and i have nothing to like say for this like i like i haven't been loved like like i'm like single and lonely and i'm in pa school and my entire life has been towards school and like i need to do something for myself i'm obsessed with you you're like i almost died almost got decapitated then i realized like fuck it let's go on the bachelor let's just do it i'm obsessed yeah okay so you officially agree yeah and you get there and were you like even comprehending what was about to happen in your life no no I had no idea and I don't I don't think I really understood because I was so like I mean I'm here for love like it really is just like a weird way to find love but it's what I wanted so I wasn't comprehending everything that would come after that

31:12I'm going to play a little game with you. Okay. Because now that you are the bachelorette, I am so curious, like, when we're giving out roses and when we're not giving out roses. Okay. So first of all, let's take a sip of our drink. We never fucking drank. We've just been crazy talking. This looks like water to anyone watching, but I swear there's tequila in this. There's definitely tequila in this. It's just a seltzer. Cheers. okay oh that's actually not bad we could have used ice but my ice machine is broken cheap fuck over here sorry jen i'm gonna go to get you ice and like oh we have no ice in my studio literally what is this establishment call it out he's going downhill um okay i'm gonna give you a scenario and you're gonna tell me if this person would get a rose from you oh are you ready okay okay he has a girl best friend no that's tough that's tough you see it depends how long has he been best friends with her is this recent is she hot has he tried to sleep with her before that's the thing has he tried to sleep with her and how do you ask a guy that i think i would just ask you would just say i'm the kind of person that would just ask okay pretend i'm him my name is kyle kyle have you tried to sleep with her before you're just being that direct or have you fucked her before oh perfect that's the question we're just going right in it yeah and if he's like no no we've just been like friends for a long time we met through this and like we're just friends okay interesting okay i would maybe give you a rose i think i'd give you a rose for the meantime but if the story i would be curious to see if the story continues to check out i agree here's the thing is it fucked up to say like i would consider myself a pretty confident person but i obviously get jealous right I agree with you like if my partner had a girl best friend that was like clearly his type yeah I'd be like or if she's like yeah is that fucked up to be like if she's really hot you're like what are you two talking about over dinner every night exactly right well are you going to dinner just the two of you why are you doing that well that's the thing too here's the thing I'm I'm also like pretty like secure myself at this point too and I think that it would really depend on like like if we just started meeting like if we just met and you have a girl best friend fine but like at some point like I should be your girl priority not not to be like not to be clingy but like I should be the priority I should be the girl best I agree I feel like there's a lot of different like ways you can look at if your boyfriend has a girl best friend or your fiance or your husband I think there's like a lot of questions you do need to ask because it's like if it's like they're friends but like because he's his it's his best friend's girlfriend you know what i mean like that's amazing yeah but if this is just like a single hottie just thriving in in the corner and you're just like why are you guys going to dinner by yourself odd i agree i agree and it's it's funny because back in the day i'd be like i'm the cool girl i don't need to ask these questions but no you have to ask the questions and it doesn't make you crazy it makes you smart thank you yeah because like love all of my men in my life i've won what i'm my husband i love men that have been in my life but like i'm sorry but like i just have a hard time if there's no connection to the friend group if there's no connection to like childhood we've known each other because our moms were best friends and we were born in the same whatever Right.

34:35You just met her out and now she's your best friend. Red flag. Yeah. Huge red flag. Okay. He is outdoorsy and his ideal vacation is camping. Like glamping maybe perhaps. No glamping Jen. Camping. Like sticks together, fire burning, like sleeping on the naked grass. We're going on hikes. We're seeing the bears. We're putting up the tent. You know what? I could do it. I could do it. I am a nature gal. okay um I do prefer to glamp and camp but if you know if I trust him and he's someone that I can trust to build a fire and attack the bears if the bears attack like sure I could do it I don't want to be doing it every day but I'm obsessed you're like glamping I had Wiz Khalifa on like months ago and I was like what about like camping and he's like the fuck is that he's like you know when I'm like in my RV with like my plasma tv I'm like hold on where does the tv come into play with camping with and he's like that's how i would camp yeah that's how i'm so you're on kind of the same page as wiz khalifa you want a little glamp me and wiz could go glamping together okay okay would you consider yourself high maintenance oh no i i don't but there are things i'm picky about for sure okay like um i don't know like curling my hair like i want to make sure my hair is curled all the time like i don't like having straight hair we can't do that in the woods and that's why whatever i would need to go glamping with an rv and the plasma tv and whiz and then an outlet for my hair trailer exactly all these things have to perfectly align so that you would go to the woods and specifically whiz khalifa has to be there yeah specifically yes okay he's a mama's boy oh gosh like how bad of a mama's boy like he's calling her for everything every second every day yep you're not getting a rose from me i can't do it i just can't i love someone who has a good relationship with their mom but but there's gotta be a time where you fly the nest you know and at this age at my old age if my man is is 26 20 what at 29 30 and still calling his mom he's gotta go he's gotta go yeah it gets a little like it gets a little sus when it's like why do you keep calling mommy and like i've had guys that like call mommy after our sex and i'm like i just don't know like immediately after yeah pretty much like laying he pumped and dumped and then he was like hi mom that's what i knew i was like i think i'm like really missing something here like something feels off and like I don't want to be a part of this okay how quickly do you introduce someone you're seeing to your family I usually don't like I've never introduced anyone to my family before um because my family can be very judgmental okay and they're they're very critical so I think um I you know wouldn't want to introduce anyone until I felt like it was the right person right I'm assuming obviously you had to introduce people in this season to your family were you proud of your family oh i will i'm so proud of my family i'm so proud of them they were exactly themselves i was like are they gonna be shy nope they were not shy no they were not shy they spoke their feelings no filters so yeah it was it was a good time were you anxious at all at one point being like can you guys stop oh yeah oh god am i saying too much i don't even know i think that's fair i think that's fair i think that's fair too yeah i mean they are not afraid to speak their mind yeah and i mean why would they be you know so so yeah i was i was anxious at some points for sure i always thought um oh my god if i ever went on a show like that like how would my parents handle being on tv like how was your family on tv like were they anxious were they asking you pointers like well so like my brother not shy at all he was himself like whatever yeah my mom oh my poor little mother she was like actually the first when i called her and i was like hey i'm the bachelorette she was like you're gonna have to hire a new mom because i'm not going on tv i'm not doing it like it's just not me babe it's not me i'm obsessed and then I come to find out that before she came on for the episode that she was there for, she was practicing lines in English for like weeks beforehand.

38:57But I wanted to make her comfortable when she was there. So I was like, Mom, you can you can speak Vietnamese like it's fine because I'm bilingual like I can speak it. And I was like, I think this is a beautiful moment for people to be able to really see what our family's like. Like I don't speak English to my mom most of the time. And she was like, No, I can do it. Like I could speak English because she'd been practicing for for so many weeks so and when i heard that i was like oh i feel so bad i'm also crying that is the sweetest most wholesome thing that your mom is like trying to show up for you in this way and then you being so sweet back being like mom be yourself like it's okay yeah it was oh it was such a uh it was such a sad moment like because i didn't know that she'd been practicing and i was like pressuring her to just be herself and i was like oh god i didn't know but i mean it all was fine but she was very nervous like she is not the type of person that wants to be on camera like ever okay i think that's like better can i be like honest like yeah it kind of freaks me out when the parents are like you can tell like the mom's like looking in the camera like you're looking for real housewives to pick you right up like they're like looking a little too prim and proper i'm like hold on you like they like practice their lines together i think it's more genuine if the parent is like i'm just here to support my daughter or my son and like oh wait did she end up ever speaking vietnamese she did yeah yeah at one point well at one point i kept telling her to speak Vietnamese and she tried to and then she like forgot it and started speaking English and I've never seen this woman forget Vietnamese in her life I was like what is going on she was nervous she was so nervous but she eventually like the nerves calmed down and she was she so proud of you she was yeah she really was we're so proud of you oh thank you um okay his ideal weekend is going to the club and partying you're not gonna get roast me at this age we're too we're too old for that okay so you're not down for the parties over the weekend i am sometimes but the fact that i live in miami it's like when i first moved there i was doing it every weekend and i was like this is not a sustainable lifestyle especially in school so i had to really limit myself and now i really only like go out out when like friends are visiting like people are down there and like they want to have a good time like i'll go and celebrate and whatever or like it's a birthday um but to do it every weekend i cannot do that god no i'm too old i'm far too old okay if he was on this season and he was often in the middle of drama is he getting a rose drama can go a lot of different ways so it's like why are you in the middle of drama like do you start it are people just jealous of you or or or what is it or what is it so it depends did you feel like you had to suss out and were you good at it like obviously there's always drama but were you good there's always in a season like someone is either being misrepresented by the group like did you find yourself being good at sussing out like if they were being honest or if they were being a little shit yes absolutely I think I very much have like a gut feeling that I trust and there were definitely certain men that I trusted more than others um was there drama yes and did I have to suss things out for myself yes I did and I'd like to say that I you know my gut was right at the end of the day well now that we know you dealt with tunnel boy like right literally like you're like I'm coming in you're like do not fuck with me I know a little piece of shit when I see one yes okay we're out of the game now I'm just gonna ask you about bachelorette we're moving on okay you have to tell me as we're kind of talking about this like what was it like dating like how many men 20 something 25 try to articulate that I didn't remember all their names on night one how could you I'm not gonna lie about that like I really didn't right um it was strangely like the first night it was strangely easy for me to like flirt because I'm a natural flirt so I found it easy to kind of get along with everybody okay and then as time went on like it was very easy for me to like be in the moment with each and every single one of them um which I found surprising because I thought like if I was with one maybe I'd be thinking of the other and vice versa and whatnot but I very much was in the moment with each and every one of them amazing so it wasn't too hard but I also feel like saying that it wasn't hard dating 25 men is like what actually what's weird is you said that I actually kind of agree is like the hardest part of dating the 25 men is probably remembering all their names yeah and then I think probably when you're down to like seven it definitely got harder as time went on like it was easy to compartmentalize at first because there were so many of them and like in the beginning the feelings weren't as strong right but towards the end like yeah it was a little bit more difficult when it got down to like whatever amount there was because the feelings were so much stronger okay yeah you have to tell me when you're in the first rose ceremony do you have an earpiece in like no how do you be like no no jimmy r and jimmy t and and kyle one and like how do you know who to call do you have to okay well i'm gonna let you in on this okay i so you kind of have to like try your best to remember right but like if you need a little help like you could you could phone a friend okay you can be like can i have a minute yes and then you can go back to the room and they're like this is jimmy r and this is jimmy t and jimmy t has the blonde hair done and you're like got it and you're like Jimmy T here's the rose and he thinks you were like thinking so hard about him you're like what the fuck is this guy's name well it's more like I know I'm giving this one a rose just like give me like the first letter and like okay I will maybe be like oh but no earpiece though no earpiece it's more of like um um hey are they wait hold on hold on there's all these no no one can care about this on abc if we're like how does it work how can you actually do they yell like you know i i kind of leave the stand for a second okay this makes me feel better and i go please tell me tell me which one this is because i forget can you can i say thank you because every time i watch i'm literally sweating not if you're gonna pick i'm sweating because i'm like yeah how are they gonna remember like who is that guy in the corner i don't even know his face okay okay so they're helpful otherwise i was gonna be like guy one vibe two like mustache guy like hot one kind of hot one like jesus looking otherwise it was gonna be like that so okay have any of your exes reached out to you since the bachelor or the season of the bachelorette um since the bachelor yeah yeah yeah um saying what so oh gosh I'm really putting this on blaster kind of fun now yeah so there was one ex-boyfriend who there's two so there's this one guy that I dated like three years ago in Boston when I first moved there and we dated for like two months very briefly like and then we were really good friends after the fact um and so we've been in touch like here and there I've gone on family vacations with him before like we're just like very we're friends though you know what I mean okay maybe a little benefit here and there but but I would never date him again just because we're just such different people and we know that certain things don't work for us so we're good friends and that's that's where it's at but yeah I mean after the bachelor I think he reached out in a more maybe like serious manner and I was like entertaining it as like a friend because hey I like attention whatever but I knew that I was never actually gonna be with him because I was like there's just I've been there before I don't want to do it again but I care about him as a friend very deeply so there was that and I don't we were supposed to go okay so we were supposed to go to a wedding together in Colombia like before the bachelorette whole thing happened and then when it happened I was like I can't go to this wedding because I'm gonna find the love of my life hopefully right yeah so he was a little disappointed yeah but i get that it's like revisiting something from the past it feels familiar and it can feel like oh like why not just like go to a wedding and like a free trip to columbia i was like yeah i'm single i can do whatever i want but then also knowing like in your heart like he's just you see him as a friend yeah you're like yeah i'm gonna go and like see if i can date and find the person that i'm in love with absolutely okay who was the other one john you said too the other one was the toxic axe where we were in a relationship for a year and he reached out and sent me this whole long letter about like everything that he did wrong and i remember like for the longest time that's all i wanted from him right was like an apology and when i was reading it i was like getting pissed off i was like this is fucked up like i don't even i don't want the letter because it made me angry at the way he treated me and that it took him this long to apologize and i was kind of like what the fuck was this for this was for you not for me like I've healed these wounds I don't need you to heal them for me this is you healing yourself I so I I basically liked the message and was like good luck I'm obsessed I'm telling you that no Jen I'm obsessed because I think a lot of people it's kind of like once you lose something sometimes people understandably like recognize the worth when they like see them with someone new and then you're like fuck did I fuck up like should i have left that person i feel like for you that must be like slightly vindicating to be like now you want to reach out and apologize like now right now like after everything all this has happened and you've seen it all on to now you want to reach out yeah okay that's kind of baller

48:46What is the most valuable lesson that you learned about yourself throughout this whole process? That it's okay to have a voice. In fact, it's better to have a voice. For the longest time, I didn't stand up for myself. I didn't feel comfortable in expressing what I need and what I want. And throughout this whole journey, I was able to really find my voice and and like really be myself and and let these guys know like who I am and what I want and I wasn't just coasting by anymore because in the past I've always just been like afraid to like talk about certain things or afraid to stand up for myself because I thought that it they it would make someone love me less or look at me differently but at the end of the day it's this is who I am and I'm gonna have a voice and you're gonna take it or leave it and if you leave it you're not my person I really appreciate you saying that because I understand like reality tv has its perks and its downfalls but I will say I think something that the bachelor has always done very incredibly is like you guys are having like really intense conversations that there is no distractions there is no like I know on some shows there's like drinking and partying and like nights like Like this is like a very insular environment where you're having to be like, let's talk about the real shit and like let's get to the crux of like who you are, who I am.

50:12And I think that's amazing that you're like, I'm – it's almost breeding an environment where you're like, I have to be vulnerable. Yes. And who do I want to be vulnerable with versus who do I maybe not feel as comfortable to open up to? Yeah, exactly. It's such a concentrated environment that it's impossible to not be vulnerable. And I agree. It's like in some instances, like if you were vulnerable and the guy didn't handle it the right way, it's like, OK, well, then you're not my person. Right. So it creates like certain moments like that where you're able to really get to the nitty gritty of what a real relationship would be like because it's so fast tracked.

50:43I also just think about that whenever it starts to get down to the wire, it's like when you have like eight guys left, let's say six guys left. How are you because like you have a timeline. Yeah. Like you can't just like be like dilly dallying and like until you you kind of have it's like the rose ceremony is now you have to decide. Yeah. How in moments where you were like maybe a little torn on like who to send home, like what were those like deciding factors of how you knew how to like, OK, I'm going to let this one go over this one. if you were like ever torn I think at the end of the day it really went down to like could I see a life with this person so if they had said something in the past that like really was a red flag for me or really just like didn't work with what I wanted in my future like but I still had fun with them I knew in my gut I was like I have to let them go because this one thing is not gonna work and it's something that we won't be able to work through um so yeah were there times where it went down to the water where I was like oh I don't know but then I I did know if I really thought about it I was like this works right now but it's not gonna work forever right yeah are you happy with the way that this season ended I think that the way everything like played out was exactly the way that it was supposed to and the ending was the right ending for me so I'm happy yes for me because everything was the way that it was supposed to go do you think people are going to be shocked by the ending or is this like a like people are going to be like okay we like saw this coming this is good or is it like any like are people going to be uneasy of like oh my god wait what is happening okay oh god let me think about my words well because i'm like are you engaged well because i don't think that i really saw the way it ended like i don't think i saw the ending the way it was supposed to end like for a while you know what I mean like I don't think I saw I don't think that I knew how it was gonna end right you go into it thinking that it's gonna be a certain way and I think that I really surprised myself in the end so I'm happy but yeah I think people will be shocked for sure okay fantasy sweets hi this is color daddy um how I've been waiting for this how much do you like in your brain like allow that to affect your decision like for you everyone's different I know like some people were like oh my god if you slept with everyone then I'll kill you and I can't be with you or some people like intimacy is a big part like how did you in your brain like approach fantasy suites because that's like a big thing I would be lying if I didn't say it was a concern like obviously I'm thinking in the back of my head like how is this going to affect each individual relationship right but at the end of the day I needed to do what was right for the individual relationship like I couldn't think about the other guys that were there because that would be doing a disservice to myself and at the end of the day I thought to myself like anyone who didn't understand the position that I was in and had a problem with that that's on them and then they weren't my person at the end of it all but what I really approached the fantasy suites with is like those that was kind of the time to really talk about like finances like religion freaking I don't know who did you vote for like all that kind of stuff that like you're you can't really talk about like on camera because they don't you know they don't care about that kind of stuff I'm obsessed with you're like before you take your shirt off yeah you just let me know who you voted for in the last election just really quickly um I'm obsessed Because these are the things you need to know before you like potentially commit the rest of your life with somebody.

54:26No, it's a great point. It's like you guys are having all of like the emotional and like romantic conversations. But now let's get down to like if we leave here. Right. How's this going to go? Are you going to move to where I move? Are you do you are you open to practicing the religion that I want to practice? Like all these little things that like that matter hugely. Yeah. Do you have like in your head like you know who's going to be that villain that was just a little piece of shit? Oh, yeah. Please. I called it out from day one. Do you think you know who could, like, potentially be the next Bachelor?

55:00I think I do. Wow. I think I do. I don't know what I'm supposed to say, but I think I do. Yeah. You think you've got it in your head. I think I do. I don't know if I'm right, but of course I think I do. I think, like, there's a lot of great guys on the season, but I do think one stands out in particular that I think could be, yeah, could be great for somebody, but not for me. Perfect. Yeah. Okay, last question. what do you want people to know about you before tuning into this season I think I want people to know that I'm a very dynamic person and that you can't judge me based off based off of one line that I say or one scene that you see or one interview that I had because I have a lot of different layers to me like any other human being here and I think oftentimes people are are like quick to judge on the internet because they see one thing one snippet what one whatever And I think that I have a lot of different layers to me.

55:52And also for the season, I think that there's a lot of growth there. And so I definitely went on like a little self journey. Yeah. Jen, I'm so excited for you. I'm so happy I got to sit down with you. You were amazing, obviously, on The Bachelor. But like getting to be with you for an hour plus, like you're a lovely person. And I'm so happy. no matter what the outcome i can tell you're happy if whatever we're about to watch on this season like i know i will be tuning in i'm very excited for you and like it just made me even want to watch more now like getting to know you and also like knowing about your past and all these little shits it's like goodbye jen's about to find her man okay leave us alone we're moving on but or is she gonna fall into the same old habits oh my god thank you so much for coming on this was so fun thank you so much for having my god i'm gonna be screaming at my tv when you're like going on the date with like the douche i'm like you'll have to text me i can't wait to hear it all thank you thank you thank you thank you