Jessi Draper: Blackmail, Orgies & Escorts

23:52He's like, you naughty little possum. That's what it was. He was like, how's your birthday going, naughty possum? And I was like, good. How's yours? He's like, great. I'm going on a hike. That's it. OK, this is an Instagram. I'm in Europe. I get a call at 4 a.m. from Jordan. He's like, do you have to tell me something? And I was like, what do you mean? He went to the links. He hacked my Instagram while we're separated created a fake phone number to then send himself the audios and then have the phone number say dude I think you should know about this your wife's cheating on you So he accused me of cheating on him which harry jowzy said it was someone else and then I found out it was him And that's all it was the audios are so innocent.

24:27Like it was just like hey, how are you? Jesse that's insane. So that's why I got a new phone number because he has done stuff like that He's tracked me. He's like listened in on my cameras in my house So he's done stuff like that So I was like I have to like do things Where he can't like look through my stuff How did you find out he was tracking you? Well he like has my location But he like is very weird if I ever turned it off He's like why did you turn off your location? Like he's very strange about it And with the cameras and all that Like that is like a full safety issue Oh yeah like there were times I was on the phone During our separation that he would like Repeat conversations back to me And he's like I listened in on the camera And I'm like oh And now that he's at home He's unplugged all the cameras so I can't like do anything you know like I wouldn't try to anyway but he's he's calculated like what yeah you're like you're the one paying for escorts you're the one going to orgy parties and then his paranoia is completely being projected onto you and he gets to be the victim you know and you're like wait how do you even think of this shit it's like because he's doing it himself yes yep are you still living together in that house no so I left when I left I said you know we need to figure out what to do with the house.

25:33And he was like, well, you can stay in the spare bedroom of the house I paid for. And I was like, you know, I think I'm going to leave because he does have a history of being emotionally abusive. And we have had really bad fights where I've also been really angry. You know, don't get me wrong. And I was like, I don't think it's good for us to live together right now. So I'm at a hotel again. And that's where I've been for the last week and a half. But Jesse, why are you always the person that has to leave the house when you are the sole provider. You paid for that house. That's your house. I mean, I have a text where he's like, you wanted this so you can leave.

26:04He's making me. But also he's like, well, you can stay in the spare bedroom if you want, but I don't feel right about living there with him. Also, he could spy on me if I'm at the house. He could have cameras that I don't know about. So I'm kind of like, I need to have that space and distance, but I'm going to sell the house and we're going to each get our own place. How are the kids doing? They don't know yet. So that's the sad part about him leaking this before I did is I have no idea what they're thinking. I don't know if you told them while I'm out of town without telling me. They're young.

26:33They're six and three. So they'll be okay. Have you been able to like FaceTime? Yeah. I FaceTimed them this morning. And it was funny because I was talking to Jagger, my son, and Jordan was like, kind of like snapping at him. And I was like, Jordan, don't do that. And he goes, don't talk to me. And I was like, okay, so that's how this is going to be. So it's kind of hostile between me and Jordan at the moment, but the kids are going to be fine. And so are the kids staying in the house with Jordan while you're in the hotel? Yeah, I've tried. I've seen them a little bit where I'm like, hey, I'm going to take them.

27:00And he's like, well, you can't take them overnight in a hotel. So he's trying to control me. But I've been to a lawyer and we're going to do a 50-50 custody agreement. But I've provided for those kids their whole lives. They want their mom. They know who their mom is. And I know I'm a good parent. I know he's going to try to mom shame me. That's going to be his MO. But I know my kids are going to be just fine. You're ready. Yes.

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29:13SoFi checking and savings is offered through SoFi Bank and a member FDIC Terms Apply. There's so much you just said, and I know there's so much we've seen also on television, but I also know there's a lot that we haven't seen because there's so many cast members and there's only so much of your life that can be shown. So I do kind of want to go back and talk about your relationship because I want to eventually get to how you confronted him that you said you wanted a divorce, what his reaction was. We're going to get into all that. But first, let's just unpack like when you look back at the early days with Jordan, what was your relationship like in the very beginning days?

29:48It was good. We met very quickly. I blame our dynamic on that, honestly, because I had been married before. So this is my second divorce. and I separated. So to put it into context, I separated from my first husband in September and I got married in March. So it was really quick. I think I leaned on him for emotional support. He was going through a breakup, so was I, and we just kind of connected and clicked. And I think that I had been treated really badly in my first marriage as well, which now looking back, I'm like, this is a pattern. I get into these situations because I'm self-conscious and I have issues.

30:22But he was there for me. So I think I just dove right in. The first year was fine, though. So would you say that first year you weren't arguing that much? No. Yeah, it was pretty good. But I actually think that looking back, he's always been pretty controlling. And I think at the time, I was just happy to be out of my last marriage. We had just had our son. I was just kind of in a bubble. And then I started to notice patterns. What would typically set off an argument between the two of you? His control. I felt controlled in every aspect of my life. And he used to try to say, oh, I can't control you.

30:53You're not able to be controlled. I try and I can't because I'm independent. In those early days, what do you look back and be like, oh, that was fully controlled and maybe I didn't see it at the time? Oh, my God. I mean, it's just he tries to control every aspect of my life, my business, how I should run my business. He would mom shame me and tell me how to parent, but then not do it himself. If I left the fridge door open, you know, like that beep that happens, I'd get yelled at. So to this day, when I hear like a beep of the fridge, I'm like, like my body goes into fight or flight. Like it's just little things like that to add up.

31:21But also like I like if I wanted to go to dinner with friends, like it was like, well, when are you going to be home? What are you doing? Where are you? Like just constant. And was there any patterns when the arguments would start? Like, what do you look back on? I think that's why our relationship got to a pretty bad place is because I'm pretty like vocal and independent. So for the first year or two, I was just like, OK. And I think Jordan wants someone submissive. So I was kind of like that in the beginning. and then it started to get to this place where I'm like, no, and I would fight back.

31:48And so then it was just like really bad because I'm fighting back and that makes it worse for him. And so we're just like going at it. Are there any things that he would like verbally criticize you for? Everything, everything. I remember being in therapy before we were like in the public eye and being like, I need you to criticize me less. It's like 90 % criticism and 10 % compliments. Anything I did, like how I ran my business, how I parented, my time management, how I cleaned the house, like every little thing, even like how I would like dress and like, you know, things like that. Like what would he say about how you dress?

32:21Oh, like that skirt's a little short. Are you going to wear that? Like, you know, like just stuff like that. So it just felt like I was constantly being dumped on. I will say there was right before we separated last year before I, after the Marciano stuff, he had told me he wanted me to start doing Pilates every single day. Like he told me that. And then he said, I think I believe in traditional gender roles and I want to be more in my masculine and I want you to be more in your feminine. And I was like, so like just controlling areas like that as well. And I was like, do you know who you're married to?

32:50That is like so fucking backwards. And also like I'm also just like how how crazy for him to also like physically expect you to do Pilates every single day. Be the breadwinner. Take care of the children. Take care of him. Yeah. there's such an unrealistic expectation when he's not even raising himself to any capacity of that standard and to be fair also he doesn't work and we had a full-time nanny so like he wasn't even helping with the kids until nighttime was there anything that he expected to get approval over in your relationship from you oh yeah i feel like everything like it felt like i couldn't make a move without talking to jordan about it you know like i had to get his advice his opinion like But the thing is, I never wanted to confide in him either because he's not someone that is like, yes, let me help you feel better and give you advice in a logical way.

33:45It's always like putting me down while he's giving me advice and playing devil's advocate but telling me what I did wrong. And how would he justify that to you or try to justify it? He's like, I just know things. I'm smart in these areas. You should listen to me. Look at all the mistakes you've made. Look at all the friends you've lost. You need to listen to me. So, yeah. And now that I'm saying these out loud, I'm like, this is weird. No, no, it's not. First of all, do not feel weird or shame or embarrassed. Like I think so many women relate to this. It's more I'm cringing at him because of like the self-righteousness that these men have over women.

34:19When again, it's like you're home. You're the breadwinner. You're the one that's working. You're the one that was on mom talk. We'll get to dad talk. Don't worry. Can you explain though like what did a conflict like actually look like between the two of you? You're in the house. you're going through this dynamic. What was that like? The last five years, we have fought every single day. Every single day. Imagine being in that with your partner who you're supposed to trust the most. I would say the worst it got and actually why I separated from him last year is because this was the Pilates conversation.

34:55It got to a point where he was blackmailing me with Marciano techs and he had them on a draft on his phone on TikTok. And anytime he was mad at me, He's like, I'm going to post them. I'm going to ruin your life. So we were fighting over this Pilates stuff. And he was like, I'm going to post the TikToks. And so I went to go grab his phone. I was like, Jordan, no. At this point, no one knew about what I had done. And I was like, you're going to ruin my life. Like, blah, blah, blah. And my business, too. Like, I employ 50 people. Like, this could ruin everything. And he goes, so he's like, OK. And I'm freaking out.

35:24So I'm, like, trying to get his phone. I'm, like, kind of chasing him, trying to get it. He pulls out his phone, starts recording me. And he's like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? Are you going to be like, Taylor, should I call the cops? And I was like, whoa, because he's friends with Dakota. So he's like hearing things like that, obviously. And so he's baiting me and he's trying to be like, oh, oh, what are you doing? And that was the moment where for me, I was like, what am I doing? I am chasing around my husband trying to get his phone so he doesn't blackmail me. This is not healthy.

35:48And I literally left him the next day. I was like, this can't happen anymore. I mean, you're like a complete prisoner in your own home where you're like, from what I understand, he decided to stay with you after that information. There was not even a second where he like didn't. So, yeah. And then he continues to use this information as blackmail to further control you in the relationship. Yes. Knowing that this cycle is going to continue because you're going to feel like shit because you do feel guilty about what you did. Yeah. Also now having the information that you did know about the escorts that he completely gaslit you into believing didn't exist.

36:20Now we know that actually was the case. Yeah. And he was the first person to step outside of the marriage. Yep. And then you, I'm not saying what you did was okay, but you kiss this man twice. You do not sleep with him. And this man is then blackmailing you into just fearing for your career and your reputation. That's horrible. It is. And like, I should have done what I did. I regret it so much. I just want to make that so clear. For my kids to have to hear about that one day, I want to take full responsibility. Of course. Of course. But I will say that like having your partner blackmail you in that way, it was something I could never get over.

36:59Even after we got back together and went through therapy, like the person that you love the most and should care about you the most, even though you hurt them, should never put you in a situation where you feel like inside you never like you're walking on eggshells and you never know if your life's about to be ruined. And they have that power over you. So that was honestly like something that really ruined us. And yeah, it was traumatizing. it's traumatizing and it's really sick because it's like he's getting off yeah on enjoying watching you have to be beholden to him the control completely when you look back at from beginning days to then obviously now you can see like the clear delineation between like whether it was like oh this is not the best relationship to like this is emotional abuse yeah did it feel in the beginning when those really big fights started like okay maybe this it just like normal relationship struggles?

37:48Or from the beginning, did you start to immediately be like, this is unhealthy. How do I get out? So my first marriage was pretty emotionally abusive, like worse than this one. And I, again, got married so quickly that I didn't have time to heal from that. So I think I attracted the same type of person without like realizing. And I think in my head I was justifying it because I'm like, no, Jordan saved me from my other marriage. Like he's my savior. Like that's how I saw him. Like he saved me from this dynamic. So there's no way he's doing this to me. And then over time, same patterns of what I saw before in my past relationship like arised and I was like, oh.

38:23But I had never said it out loud to anyone. My friends and family were aware. They knew that he didn't treat me well. No one liked him. They would bring it up to me, but I would just kind of be like, that's Jordan. But then in season four, you see my energy healer. She actually, I was doing a session with her and this was the same night of that Pilates fight actually. And I sat down and she goes, are you safe? And I was like, what do you mean? And she goes, I just have a feeling I need to ask you. And I just, I told her everything. And it was the first time I said it out loud. And that was like the moment also that I was like, I have to leave him.

38:55And that's why we separated last year. Cause I'm like, as I'm saying it out loud, she goes, Jesse, this is emotional abuse. And I never like, it didn't click to me until in that moment. How did it change for you after you said it out loud? It was like a weight had fallen off where I was like, and it was almost like something clicked. and I was like seeing it clearly for the first time. And I was like, oh, like I just kind of like was like, that's Jordan's personality. Like this marriage is hard, you know, like which it is. But that's how I justified it. But when she literally I had someone saying this is emotional abuse.

39:25And then I started opening up to my friends and family and they were like, Jessie, this isn't normal. It felt like the glass had shattered. Well, and just to also validate any woman who is going through this, it's like so many people can be like, oh my God, is there a pattern? Like you went through this in your first marriage since the second it's like of course there's a pattern because it's so hard to break out of it's familiar it's something that you get used to it's like you've been beaten down and you're you're sitting there and your self-worth is depleted and you're not feeling good about yourself so then you find someone like a jordan who like emotional abuse does not just start day one no it's like it is this very very um crazy like confusing masked thing that you can't it's not tangible you can't see it and yeah and so it's psychological and when it's so embedded psychologically there is also something within you that is willing to be like but maybe i am not worthy and this is maybe what i am going through and so like maybe i deserve this or maybe this is normal because if you've only lived seeing that and like i don't know much about your upbringing but like did you have like a good representation of you know love in your life yeah i have the best family.

40:40So that's what's crazy is like my parents, my sisters, like best family in the world, which by the way my sisters love you and like they're so excited I'm here. But no, I have the best family. I think it was like childhood wounds of like not feeling good enough with other friends and, you know, things like that. And then I got into things where I didn't feel good enough already. And then I got into that and it was like 10 times worse. And you're right. It's familiar. So I looked for the same person subconsciously because it's what I was used to. And that quote is so like old, but it's so true of like you accept the love you think you deserve.

41:09And that's what happened to me. I think it was season three. I remember just feeling so bad for you and your family when your sisters were sitting on the ground, your mom was there and you were like, I could tell my mom wasn't even shocked. And she like was like hoping we would really just end it was when you guys were about to go into the 90 day break. And your sister was like, you haven't been Jesse for so long. And it was like this outcry to you, but also you could tell she was so aware. Like she couldn't get to you, but she wanted you to know that like she still remembered who you were without this abuse.

41:45And like she knew you were going to come back to yourself one day. And it takes you being it like no one can get you out of it yourself. Right. Yeah. I'm so glad you brought that up because I do feel like I've been a shell of myself in this relationship. And I used to tell that to Jordan. He's like, that's not true. You have every right to make your own life. And I'm like, your partner affects you so much. They can influence every single thing about your life, your happiness. And I did lose myself. And the people closest to me saw that. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what kind of romantic connection that you and Jordan were able to maintain with each other while having this emotionally abusive relationship?

42:25it. So our sex life was like pretty good for a while because again, I hadn't really realized what was going on. I was just kind of hiding it. But I will say since the separation and getting back together, my body has told me. I want women in this situation to know that like your body will tell you. I like anytime you tried to have sex with me, I would clam up. I would have panic attacks after. I would cry after. I didn't want him to touch me. Like even if he was just like passing me like in the house and like grabbed my arm or whatever, I was like, don't touch me. And I would say that to him and he's like, what's wrong with you?

42:54But your body knows. So I just want like anyone in the situation, men or women, like everyone goes through it at some point. Not everyone, but people have gone through it. Listen, your body knows. Like that book, Your Body Keeps the Score. Of course. My body was trying to tell me for like a whole year. Right, like we're not safe. Yeah. Of course, you can't relax and enjoy yourself in an intimate setting with someone that you don't feel safe with. Yeah. I also think there was such a highlight when we would watch the seasons on the success of your business and mom talk. Jordan did end up quitting his job so that he could help with the kids and so he could film more.

43:31Initially, were you guys aligned on that decision for him to quit his job? Yes, because at the time he quit, we had just had our daughter. So she was a newborn. We had our toddler as well. And he was traveling for work. So he was in Texas, California, like all over the place. And I was like, I can't run a business. start to film this show and raise two kids. So I did initiate that. I was like, I need you to like, but I did say, I need you to find something here. I thought he was still going to work. He just took that as I'm going to quit. And we were, I was making good money. So like he didn't need to work.

43:59But looking back, I'm like, I should have like had him help out with the kids more though. Like there was, he got to golf all day, you know? How do you think becoming the sole provider of the family impacted your relationship long term? I think that for me in the future, like I am totally fine being that person. I'll probably always make the most money. But I do want a guy that has like passions and like something of his own. It doesn't matter how much money he makes. But I will say with Jordan, since he believes in like the traditional gender roles, I think he really loved the lifestyle I provided.

44:31But he had a really hard time being like, I'm not the man. I'm not the provider, which is such a Mormon, like toxic way of thinking. All the men, like look at the men in our group, like a lot of them had those issues. So I think he was very like intimidated by it. But he also liked having the money. Right. It's like his ego, once the door opened and it was public, couldn't take it. But behind the scenes, he's like, I love this. I'm golfing every day. Exactly. He has it so easy. But then the minute someone checks him, he's like embarrassed and can't take it. Yes. Did he ever start to make any comments to you negatively about how being a stay at home dad made him feel?

45:02Oh, he just told me from the beginning. He said I believe in gender roles and not from the beginning But like when he quit his job, sorry Um, he goes i'm just you know, i'm not meant to be that role and he would mom shame me a lot Like the kids need their mom you're gone a lot And so I can't fill that role like i'm the dad and i'm not meant to be a stay-at-home dad I don't want to do that So it was hard for me because i'm like I want a partner that if I do have to work and travel for that job I can trust that like the dad wants to be with the kids like this is a partnership You're not a babysitter.

45:30You chose to have these children, right? It's not. Well, it's also just so unfair. Yeah. He's getting to enjoy all the spoils of your hard work. But then he's also like, and you have to do all the stuff that I'm also not really doing that I should be doing. Yeah. I got to go golf. Yes. I got a tea time at 8 a.m., babe. And you know, do you know how many times I've heard that sentence? And you're like, there's no fucking way. Yeah. There's no way. It's so bad. Eventually, Jordan did. I don't even want to say return to work. Kind of through dad talk. Yes. what was your initial reaction to that so at first the dads got together to like make funny videos to make fun of us so we were like this is hilarious I don't think we ever thought it was gonna turn into what they tried to make it um as time went on I was like okay this is like cringy like I don't like this and it became a thing with me and Jordan where it was like competitive like we were competing like you got this opportunity you got this many followers you got this many views look what I got, like he became very competitive with it.

46:27And I was like, this is gross. Like men should not be acting this way in a relationship where it's like you're threatened by like my success that pays our bills. So it turned into a really hostile thing for us. Did you talk about this with the other women? Like, did they feel this also? Like I'm cringing from dad talk? Oh, all of us. Yes. Like we all made fun of it. We're like, what is happening? And it's hard because everyone, the audience is always like, less dad talk. And we're like, we agree, but also they're in our lives. And this is about our lives. So it's really hard to like not have them around.

46:55But now for me, it'll be easier. No, that's a good point. I remember he said dad talk doesn't need to be in mom talk shadows. But first of all, there wouldn't be a dad talk if there wasn't mom talk and everything that you guys have built. Did you feel like he was riding on your coattails? 1000%. I mean, any brand deal that he got was because of me. We had to do them together. He maybe has gotten one or two on his own, but like we did one with Cafe Rio, we had to do it together, you know? So So everything was tied to me. And so and even like he's on Cameo and he'll try to be like, come say hi in this Cameo, you know.

47:25So it's like you're getting used and you're like, yeah, it really is your own thing. Then do it as your own thing. Don't have to involve me because then it should just be it's then it's getting my money. Yeah, exactly.

47:43Call Her Daddy is brought to you by SoFi, the all in one finance app where you can bank, borrow and invest all in one place. Let's talk bank accounts for a second. The average bank savings rate is 0.39 % in interest. You're earning pennies on your savings, but it doesn't have to be that way, daddy gang. With SoFi's high yield checking and savings, the money barely making moves sitting in your savings account can earn over eight times the national average savings rate with eligible direct deposit. No account or overdraft fees. You can get your paycheck up to two days early, plus get an epic welcome bonus when you sign up with eligible direct deposit.

48:24Sign up for SoFi Checking and Savings at SoFi.com slash call her daddy today. SoFi Checking and Savings is offered through SoFi Bank and a member FDIC Terms Apply. Whether you're a festival girly or catching local live music, Dove thinks the only thing you should worry about is getting a good view of the stage. With the new Dove alcohol-free whole body deodorant, you won't have to worry about your deodorant irritating your skin. It's packed with nourishing serum and free from irritating alcohol. Plus, you'll still enjoy 72-hour odor protection and irresistible fragrances for your pits, chest, thighs, and more.

49:00Get the new alcohol-free Dove whole body deal on Amazon or at Walmart today. going back to the affair I think that obviously now even just sitting here like I'm trying to rack my brain because I obviously didn't know that the escorts came before Marciano so I'm sure everyone's watching this and we're all like the meme of the woman like doing the math I'm like hold on like it really changes so much because I'm now I'm sure people are going to go back and and clip things of like the way he acted and how he was so upset with you and the betrayal which was so fair but now I'm like oh my god he was such a liar like he was the he was what like yeah um when you look back you said that that moment was essentially a cry for help when you stepped outside of the marriage what did you mean by that so I felt so trapped in that marriage you know I couldn't do anything right.

49:55I was so beaten down emotionally. And I was just so unhappy, deeply unhappy in what I was in. But I felt trapped not only with my money and my business, like you saw in season four, but also just he made me feel like I couldn't leave. And for my kids too. So I was just really, really upset. And I met Marciano. And it was the first person who was nice to me and told me I was cool and pretty and fun and that I was worth something. And I just remember being like, oh, like this is how a man should talk to you. And not that it's okay what I did by any means, but I do feel like I was like, I'm going to, I remember thinking like, if I do this tonight, just kissing him, by the way, it will give me a reason to be done.

50:37Like it'll give Jordan a reason to leave me. Like I can be free. And so in a way it was like, you were looking for an out. You were almost like kind of trying to self-sabotage. Yes. Even if it was me that like did the bad thing, I was like, maybe this could end it. And when then you guys went on that 90-day break and you did decide to stay together, what was fueling you to not just walk away? I was so scared. And that's how I felt the last year, to be honest. But I was scared of being alone. I was scared of hurting him. I was scared of the unknown and the kids. Like, I've been divorced before and it sucked.

51:10And this time I have kids. So I'm like, I don't want to go through that and put my family through it with the business and the prenup and all that. There was just so much weighing on me with that. So I was just scared. I was really, really scared. In that time, obviously, we saw some stuff on camera, but like what conversations with this affair coming to light did it force you to have with Jordan? Like, was there anything you were able to admit about the relationship that you had been previously too scared to say? He had been well aware of how I felt about like the emotional abuse and all that, but he never acknowledged it until the affair came out and it was public and we started going to therapy during our separation.

51:46And in therapy, he finally admitted like, I do know I got you to this place. I am the instigator in this. I started this cycle and it was emotional abuse. He has said all of those words to me. He may deny it now, but he has said all of that, but he had never said that before. Okay. So that gives a little bit of clarity of why you would be like, okay, maybe there is some path to moving forward. Like someone saying like, I see that this was emotional abuse. I see I got you here. Like, I'm willing to change. Yeah. Why not give it a shot? Right. Having kids with someone, you're like, whoa. Because most people, you'd expect them to never admit that.

52:21Of course, it wasn't on camera. But like. And I will say the last year, Jordan has made some changes. Like, he's really tried in a lot of areas. But I think for me, it was like, you're trying and you are making changes. But it's, I'm still not in love with you. And at the end of the day, like, you do deserve to be loved the way that works for you. And same with me. and if you're going to make these changes, great for yourself, but it doesn't work for me. But I gave it my all and I had that year to really try and I don't regret it now because I did everything I could. You can genuinely say and look at your kids and be like, I tried.

52:50Yes. Something that is a byproduct of being in a toxic situation or an abusive situation is the way that it impacts your self-image and your self-worth. You posted a really vulnerable TikTok where you opened it up about regretting some of the cosmetic procedures that you've done recently. Why was that something you decided to share? Because I do get a lot of hate for what I get done. And I didn't want everyone watching thinking that I just wanted to look this way or I wanted this. It didn't go the way I planned. And so I wanted to talk about it. But it also has made me realize I got my surgeries after season four.

53:28And I looked back and I was like, I looked so good in season four. What was I thinking? And I never would have been able to say that before. But it gave me like clearer perspective of like, I don't need to get all this work done. But I think I was in two marriages where like I had two husbands who treated me so badly that I was like, that was the only thing I could control. And that may sound weird, but it was like, I can't do anything else right. So like I can control my appearance. And I think it became a coping mechanism for me. To have the ability to control something in your life when everything else is chaos is a way that we in our heads cope and survive.

54:01but I think obviously sometimes then it can be at the detriment of ourselves. We just don't see it in the moment. What do you think is your biggest regret when it came to those procedures? So I got one surgery like three months ago and that was, I just shouldn't have done any of it. I got an upper and lower bleph and then some fat grafting in the face, but I didn't want the fat grafting. I just kind of said, like, I just wanted the eyes and he was like, well, you need this to balance it out. And I was like, okay. Like I just kind of listened to what I was told. And looking back I'm like I didn't need that or want that so I just wish that I would have not done any of it because I didn't need it you know no and I can imagine like even you saying like now you're getting to this place where you're watching season four and you're like what the fuck like I looked great yeah um you look great now like don't be that hard on yourself but I get it it's more of like an internal thing of like watching yourself drive yourself to a point where you're thinking something's going to solve something yes and really that's not the solve you could continue to get work done.

54:59That's not really the issue. Throughout season four, all of the women were so vocal about how much they disliked Jordan. Like it was every scene it felt like, right? What do you think overall was their biggest issue with him? The way he treated me, for sure. They saw things, they heard things. And just the way he's kind of demeaning to women. And he would talk badly about my friends, which is so weird to be like, my husband's talking shit on my best friend like what do I do like that it was such a hard position to be in and he's a big mouth and he would tell people things and kind of exaggerate things you kind of see that play out but I think those issues were what everyone struggled with well yeah I almost think there's like a thing with men where you're like okay women we can like gossip like no it's not for boys like literally this is a woman's game like stop gossiping and shit stirring like you need to get out like this is a woman's field okay also influencing is also our area Thank you.

55:52That is how I feel. I'm like, it's icky. Like, stop. No, that makes sense. Because I think, and also seeing their distaste for him, I felt, yeah, it just felt really palpable where it couldn't be escaped. I also thought that what was really hard, I remember it was episode one where you walk in and you have this overnight bag. And what was so sad, Jesse, was like the fact that your friends like know the exact bag that you usually carry if you'd spent the night at the hotel and you didn't sleep at your home. Like it was that obvious to them because it clearly was that clearly like occurring quite often.

56:33I just like I guess when you would show up to those events and he would be there and you would have your bag like and you would have to put on a brave face when you look back. Is there anything you wish you could have done differently in those moments for yourself? Oh my gosh. I'm so glad you asked this because something I've realized throughout all this is I have gotten very good at stuffing my emotions down and like, I'm here because now the show, I have so many things I have to do. I have to be on camera. But before that, I was teaching hair classes and I was running a business. So I'd get in huge fights with Jordan and then I have to turn it on and go teach hundreds of people and be there for my employees.

57:09And I literally had to learn that as a coping mechanism to the point where it's really hard for me to cry now. And it's really hard for me to face my emotions and be vulnerable. The show has helped me. I watched season four and I was like, oh, I cried more than I thought. OK, that's good. It's progress. But yeah, I'm very good at just being like, I'm totally fine. And I wish that I would have just taken more time to look internally and be like, you're not OK. And it's OK to not be OK. And you don't have to put on a brave face. And I'm working on that in therapy now. But that for sure. No, it's a great point.

57:37It's like we watched it in that scene. But then you're right. You did cry this season. We watched you cry at your anniversary dinner. Yeah. Because you were concerned about the future of your relationship. And meanwhile, Jordan suggested renewing your vows. Yeah. How were you both on such different pages in that moment? I mean, Jordan wanted this. You know, he wanted to stay. He wanted to make this work. So I think he was just grasping at straws trying to be like, what can I do? And maybe he thought it was like romantic. But I literally I think you could see it in my body language. I'm like, this isn't the time.

58:05Right. No. You can't even like like it made me feel like he wasn't even listening to me. You recently changed your last name. Yeah. For business purposes is how it was presented. And Jordan did not take it well. And he called you extremely selfish. Now that you are getting divorced, which we're about to get to. Was it really for business purposes or was that you consciously or subconsciously kind of taking that first step of. Yeah. Yeah. it was an easy first step almost. I definitely did it for business reasons because like my name's hard to say. Naughty Cara is so hard to pronounce. So it made sense.

58:44I also have a family business. We're all Draper. So it made sense. But I do think deep down I was like, if this ever happens, it'll be easier because everyone will know me as Jesse Draper already. Do you think he kind of knew what was happening and that's why he was freaking out so much? Oh, yeah. Like completely. And he also like he likes to justify it this way. But he was like, so when I met Marciano in the villa we had all had a conversation at the villa about our names and how to spell them and they were trying to figure out how to spell my last name everyone as a group and I was like well my last my other last name's Draper like you can call me that instead and so Marciano would call me that so he was like you're doing this because you want Marciano again and he like completely flipped it into something like that and I think that's why he like called me selfish 20 times and stuff like that what is the status of your relationship with Marciano oh I have not talked to him in almost a year yeah that's that's done and over don't worry Okay, let's go to the divorce.

59:34Yeah. What was the actual moment you knew you needed? Okay, it's going to happen. I need this divorce. So in the last year, I've told him actually a few different times I want to get divorced, but he always like calms me down. Give me a few days. Let's try to work on it. He's better for a few days and then it goes back. But what happened was I had been in limbo for a while and anyone that's lived in limbo knows it's excruciating where I'm like, I don't know if this is right or not. I literally woke up one day and I was like, it's such a simple thought, but I was like, I can change this. I can change my life.

1:00:07I can be happy. It's going to be hard, but I can do this and my life doesn't have to be this way. And it was like something flipped and I was like, I'm done. And I could not go back after that. It was the weirdest thing. Okay. So can you walk me through moment by moment of that day? Like, how did you tell him? Where were you? Okay. So this happened that feeling came to me on a thursday and I told him on friday the next day I wasn't gonna tell him till the weekend because I was like, let's you know Get the kids out of the house and whatever but on friday he came up to my room I was getting ready in my closet and he was like I just talked to the kids therapist because we have him in therapy And she thinks we need to start going together every week with them And can you make that happen?

1:00:47And I was like, oh i'm leaving you this weekend like ah But I couldn't say that so I was like, I just don't know if our if our schedules are gonna work Like it may work if you take them and I take them and he was like, why? The kids are the most important thing. Why? And I was like, I want to get divorced. I just said it. And he was like, okay. And his emotions were calm, then mad. And then he gaslit me and was like, you're not healed enough. That's why. You can't love yourself yet. So you need to figure that out first. And then you'll realize this isn't what you want. And then he was like, you're cheating on me again.

1:01:16And I'm like, it was all over the place. And I just had to be like, Jordan, I need you to know I've thought about this every single day for the last four years. And this is I'm choosing myself. And, you know, we fought a little bit, but he finally understood. And yeah. So then he finally understands. Does he leave the room? And like, do you just go about your day? No, he's like still talking to me. And it kind of got to a point where he was like gaslighting me and stuff. So I finally was like, this is how most of our fights are. I'm like, I'm leaving. I need you to stop. And he literally followed me downstairs.

1:01:43And I had to like get in my car and drive off. And then did you sleep in the house that night? No, I have not been back since. I've been back to see the kids. I did sleep there one night actually. But other than that, I've been at a hotel. How was sleeping there that one night? So, okay, this is where actually I think a lot of women will relate. So I was in a hotel and I had a girl's night with my friends. This was maybe two days after I left. And we were drinking wine and just talking about it. I was like so sad. And I could not sleep that night. And at 4 a.m. I was like, I'm Ubering home. I want to be with my kids.

1:02:13I want to be in my house. I just felt so like I didn't have a home. I was like so misplaced. And I went home and I just, I went into the bed and he was there and I ended up having sex with him because he was like, just one more time, one more time. And I told him no, probably 20 times. And I was like, okay, but if I do, this doesn't change anything. And he was like, it won't, it won't. And I did. But literally, I'm so glad I did because after that moment, I was like, nope, never again, never again. This was my answer. You're like, I'm so repulsed by so many things happening right now. Yeah. And I was drunk and sad.

1:02:44And I just was like, I miss my family. But yeah, It was a good closing of the chapter. Damn. Yeah. And so the next morning you wake up. Yeah. And do you just get more clothes and go back to the hotel? And I never have been back since to sleep there. How are you managing that with your kids? So I will go over. So they go to school in the morning. And so he'll take them to school. And then I'll pick them up and then be with them in the evening, put them to bed. And then he'll come back and we just switch off. So I'm going to get a place soon where we can do 50-50. But I just don't want to take them to a hotel.

1:03:15No. It'll be hard. and this house obviously like do you do you think he's ready to get rid of this house absolutely not no but you're getting rid of it i i think it's the best thing to do can we talk about this prenup yeah because obviously season four we watch you and every woman is like oh yeah no like you make the money how did this happen like can you explain Elaine, where are you at with the prenup? Are you okay? Are you going to have to give him 50 % of everything you own? Where are we? So I went to lawyers who are amazing and they were like, okay, it's actually valid. You don't need a witness signature as long as both of you have signed it, which we have.

1:03:58So thank God. I don't have to give him anything for my businesses, but I will have to pay alimony and child support most likely. And then I might have to do some sort of payout. We haven't gotten there yet because he filed yesterday. So I actually don't know the details of that yet, but I do know like he can't take my business or, you know, anything like that. So I'm happy about that. So he's not entitled to anything with your business. That's a complete separate entity. Yes. It existed before you met him. It will continue to exist. And he never did anything to contribute to it. So. Right. Oh, right.

1:04:27That's probably a clause. Like how much did he contribute? He was working there maybe, you know, but no. And when it comes to this, do you feel like at all resentful if there's going to have to be a payout? A little bit. Kelsey Ballerini has a breakup album that I have been like so resonating with. And I think there was like a – like I had to give him half. There was like a lyric in there. And I resonate with that so much because I'm like, it sucks that like, yes, I made mistakes in this relationship too. And he does deserve something. But all the hard work that I've done, I've built my business up from the ground, me and my family.

1:05:00And you just get to like get a chunk of that. like if I do have to do that. So because we have kids, I'm okay with it because I want them to have a dad who has some stability. Some stuff. Yeah, some stuff. Some stuff. But yeah, it sucks. How do you feel though? Because you referenced at the beginning of this episode, you said that he put in, it was because of the cheating. Yeah. It wasn't irreconcilable differences, right? Do you think that's going to be changed? Do you think you are, I mean, you could technically say he also cheated. That's kind of why I'm willing to talk about it now. I mean, it did get leaked, but because I was like, well, are you trying to get more money out of me?

1:05:38And that's the reason you did that. Well, I'm going to tell them what you did then. There should be no secrets if you're going to out me like that. So how do you think he's going to react when he hears you talking about this? Oh, he's going to hate this. And he's going to mom shame me and say I'm a bad mom for doing this, which, by the way, I'm not like excited to go like expose this. It does suck for our children. But I think as a mom, what I've had to come to terms with is that I will tell my children about my mistakes, my affair. My plastic surgery has gone wrong. This dynamic. I don't want my daughter to ever be treated the way I've been treated.

1:06:09And I just I'm going to be honest with them. And I think that it's OK to talk about this because, A, we're on reality TV. We can't really hide from it. We can't have secrets when you're public. But B, like, I'm going to teach this to my children and tell them what to avoid and what to change, you know, in their lives if this ever happens to them. And I think that's the right way to approach it, right? Like that's all you can do is be honest. Yeah. Is he still denying the escorts? I have no idea. I haven't actually talked to him about it in a while. Now that it's leaking, I may hear from him about it, but I've just I haven't brought it up with him since.

1:06:40It's going to be really interesting to see with the alleged orgies and the escorts. Like, are there other people in dad talk or that world that were also partaking? Like there's so much emphasis on you and especially just the women being these people and we're so focused on their wrongdoing. Yeah. And it's like, well, what have the men been up to? No, literally. I do think the rest of the men are angels like Jace, Jacob, Connor, like the sweetest men. I do not. No, absolutely not. I think that Jordan, it sounded like he was partaking in some of this when I was having Jovi is what it sounds like.

1:07:16And that was before he had met any of those guys. I mean, you never know, but like I really think it was like how he's been for a while. Okay, how do you think your divorce will impact mom talk and just the future filming in general? That's a good question. Right now, I think we're all trying to survive. So we're like, let's not worry about cameras. Let's just get through this storm. But I think we are all excited to pick back up and just like continue to tell these stories. I mean, the fact that this is all happening while we're down, like my divorce, I didn't plan that. But I think it also shows that I made this decision for the right reasons.

1:07:50Because Jordan would always tell me, like, you do things for the show. Like, you're just separating from me for the show. But I'm like, no, I did this with cameras down. So that shows you I'm serious. So none of that conversation was filmed? Nothing, no. And then he goes to TMZ. Mm-hmm. And now you're here in long form getting to tell your truth. Yeah. Wow. So now when cameras pick back up, you're going to essentially have to... You know, fill in the gaps. Yeah, fill in the gaps. And I'm sure if we pick back up soon too, like, more is going to happen. This isn't over. How does it feel to sit here and tell your story?

1:08:22It feels surreal. You know what's so crazy is I, in season four, I was like, I really want to go on Call Her Daddy. I had said that. And I was like, maybe I'll get two for season three because I just love you. But the timing wasn't right. It wasn't right. And now it is. Well, girl, we were like, but now I'm getting divorced. So I guess this war. Well, I would have come on six months ago and tried to protect him and been like, we're working through it. It wouldn't have been genuine. And now I get to be free and tell my story. So it feels really good. it is so sad and also like you said healing of like yes there's been so much damage done from the relationship yes the fact that you are now able to look back and be like that was an emotionally abusive relationship i don't want my children to ever go through something like that i don't want to continue to go through something like that i need to leave i do think it's also a testament to people watching of like how hard it is to leave something oh my gosh that is abusive you just said I've been thinking about this Jordan for four fucking years and when someone sits there and it's like but why didn't you leave like go back to what we've talked about the manipulation the way the control all the things the fact that you just a normal situation would be I want a divorce and they'd say oh my god well okay I get it's like no you're not healed you're not in your right mind it's constant and I still have those thoughts now I'm still like even doing this I'm like he's gonna be so mad do I need to protect him like that's my inner voice right now how are you pushing through that and not self-sabotaging and going back to him?

1:09:45Well, he pissed me off yesterday by filing. So I'm like, I'm going to burn it down. Shouldn't have done that. You're like, you know what? This is your doing. It is. I probably would have been a little bit nicer. He did try to tell me because I was like, I'm done talking to you. We have to work through a third party for the kids now. He goes, well, you did this. Just remember that you wanted this. And I'm like, I didn't go to TMZ. You did this. You started this war. Right. I wasn't going to make it messy, but now you're going to go to TMZ. Yep. He started the online stuff. Let's get into it. yep okay dating oh like what are you feeling are you going to take some time before you jump back in is there anyone that you would be interested in that you have your eye on like what are we oh my gosh i i haven't dated since i was 20 like i got married at 21 married jordan right after like i'm so nervous like i'm like a giddy 15 year old like i'm like how do i date like i have no clue okay you can't rush into anything that's my mistake from last i know i'm so impulsive you know me already.

1:10:41I'm like, I'm like from the, for your first husband to then Jordan, you were like, and it's like, I get it. It's easier to not be alone at first. Cause you're like, it's the comfort. And right now you're like, I don't want to sleep in a hotel, a room like alone. No, I know. Trust me. I know jumping into something too quick. Trust me. I won't. I like you can date. No, I want to date. I want to like not be tied down. I have my freedom back. So I don't want to like jump into anything. Like I I'm sure I'll have guys I talk to and stuff. And like, that's where I need to like be careful because I could like jump into something without realizing it, you know.

1:11:12But no, I want to like go date and have fun and like meet new people. I don't even know what my type is anymore. Like who should I date? I don't know. I know. And I think there's something really exciting about I think the world will be really interested to see you single. Yeah. Not just because it's going to be fun for content of dating. more so of like, what is Jessie like alone and in her power and in her mind of just like being confident and getting back to that place that like we probably haven't been able to fully see on TV. Oh my gosh. Chase from the show, I was talking to him because he's been divorced and he's been helping me through this.

1:11:47And he said to me the other day, he was like, this is what you've accomplished being held back. Like, this is going to be fucking scary to see what you can do. And I was like, you're right. Like, I could do anything. That's such a good point. Yes. I was like, I'm for president like down no literally yes and but i've accomplished so much doing that so i'm like excited to spread my wings and just be like no i can do whatever i want no i'm really excited for you and i think that even again to see the internet's reaction being like bitch thank god like get out of here like get rid of him let's go like the whole season felt like we were just like so you're getting a divorce or not yeah everyone's like leave that man oh the minute the show came out i woke up to hundreds of comments of like leave him leave him and i just like didn't tell Jordan.

1:12:26I'm sure he saw it. I'm sure he saw it. Yeah. But no, the fact that this is being celebrated, Miranda said that in the season. She's like, the fact that, oh, also Miranda, like shout out, like my friends, all of them, like Makayla Macy, Miranda, Layla Taylor, like they have been there for me so much. So I just want to give them a shout out. But Miranda told me like, this is going to be celebrated and it has, and it's like been the craziest feeling. Even when he's trying to play dirty. Yep. Okay. Before we go, we have to do a little rapid fire. All right. From this season. Okay.

1:13:03Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb. So sports are usually math territory, but when it comes to soccer, you guys know, you know what, I'm all over it. So safe to say, I am very excited for the FIFA World Cup coming to LA. The last time I went to a global sporting event was during the Olympics. And honestly, the trip became so much more than just going to different games in Paris. I just remember Matt and I ended up booking the cutest apartment one weekend on Airbnb to explore different parts of France. One night after dinner, instead of I remember rushing home, we stopped into this tiny little local bar, ended up sitting next to a couple from, I think they were from Madrid.

1:13:44And we just started talking and somehow found out that they also worked together and they had golden doodles. And we were like, oh, my God, this is meant to be. And then when Matt and I got back to the apartment that night, we opened a bottle of wine, sat on the balcony, talking for hours about all of the random moments that somehow end up becoming the best part of traveling. It was one of those trips where you come home and you just feel like you actually lived in a space instead of just visiting it. And that is what I love so much about Airbnb. During the FIFA World Cup, people from all corners of the world come together.

1:14:16They're swapping jerseys, grabbing drinks after the match, maybe debating who actually has the best goalie, like whatever it is. And Airbnb makes it easy to stay together under one roof. You get to live in neighborhoods that actually feel local and experience a city beyond just the tourist spots. Airbnb, the world is meant to meet. Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Sephora. From less is more days to full glam routines, everything you need for all things beauty is at Sephora. Yep, Sephora is where you will find the hottest, newest products you won't find anywhere else. The ones popping up in every Get Ready With Me.

1:14:53Think summery fragrances like Kaoli, Eden, Plush Pair 23, Eau de Parfum, Next Level Makeup, the skincare that keeps you glowing like it's your full-time job. Shop the newest, hottest beauty only at Sephora. Will there be a season four reunion, you think? Oh my gosh, I actually have no idea. I don't know because we're on a pause now. It probably would have filmed soon. Maybe. Do people want it? I guess sound off. Yes. Who in MomTalk are you closest with right now? Macy and Makila. They're my best friends. I love them. When was the last time you talked to Demi? I haven't talked to Demi since the season three reunion.

1:15:27You guys saw it. How do you feel about your relationship? So, me and Demi, it's been interesting. I wish her the best. I had a lot of issues with her, and I don't think it was a friendship that was meant to last, but I do wish her happiness. And if I have to see her again, I can be cordial. But it's just not meant to be. Yeah, that makes sense. Has anyone heard from Ben since last season? Stay tuned. Yeah. Okay. Who is currently in the group chat? Has anyone left? Oh, gosh, no. So, okay. Sorry, Taylor. But we do have a group chat with Taylor. And then we have one without her because of all this.

1:16:05But not talking badly, but how we were coordinating how to handle the film pause. Of course. But no, everyone's in it. What was your opinion on Harry Jousey? coming to meet up with mom talk while everyone was in LA. Okay. Well, first of all, me and Jordan were leaving as he came in. So I was like, and Jordan hates Harry Jousey because of me cheating. So I was like, Jordan, don't say anything. So I was like kind of nervous, but so glad we were leaving. Harry doesn't know this by the way. And we talk a lot. So I'm sorry, Harry. Um, but no, I watched that scene back and I was like, this is the best TV I've ever seen.

1:16:33The fact that he's like, I'm going to cry right now. And he's so overwhelmed. It was iconic. I loved it. Amazing. How do you feel about how the Unwell event and Macy's book event drama played out? I felt so bad because I was so excited to do Unwell and we ended up plot twist doing it. So it worked out for the best. And Macy and Makayla came too. So it was great. But no, I had no idea because we had talked about me hosting her book event and then Unwell came up and she had texted me being like, hey, I just need to know which one you're doing. No big deal. So I didn't think it mattered. But then when I heard how sad she was, I was like, Macy and Makayla have been there for me through so much.

1:17:06I think you see me say that. And I was Like, Macy, I would never want you to think anything was more important than you. And it was an immediate, like, I'll do this. What terms are Jen and Whitney currently on? I don't think they're talking at the moment, but I do think that when a season comes out, you all self-reflect a little bit. And I think that's happening. And I think they'll probably be able to get back to a good place. What was your reaction when Jen sent her husband in place to speak to Whitney? It's just never a good move for the man to be the one to, like, yell at another woman. Like, even if Whitney was in the wrong, which I don't necessarily think she was, like him going at her just.

1:17:40Yeah. OK, what do you think is the future of dad talk? I think it'll be done. I don't think it can continue. I think the world has spoken and they're done. OK, last question. Is there anything else that you want to set the record straight on, clear the air on, whether it's with Jordan, whether it's with other people from the cast, rumors, whatever it be? I mean, not specifically anything other than just like remember that we are real people with real lives and you see this much of our life. It's cut down. It's edited. We film a scene for four hours and you see four minutes, you know? So just remembering that there's always more to the story and give people grace because we're all going through it right now.

1:18:20And just any woman that's been in a situation like mine, like you're worthy and you're enough and you can do it. Kate, I need you to now go find out about the orgies. I know, literally. I'm going to hear about it once this drops. I need to call you after. Yes. I'll fill you in. You need to like plug us back in and be like, so what's the update on the orgy? Do I need to hire like a PI? Literally. Yeah. I'll hire for you. I'll let you know. I need to. He's going to deny it. I already know that. But if it's orgies, there's many people there. And orgy parties. Yeah. Sounds like it. I'll get your new number.

1:18:51Yeah. We'll figure it out. Yeah. We'll figure it out. Jessie, thank you so much for coming on Caller Daddy. I think like hearing your story again, I think like your story was such a testament to yes there is not we can't see everything on reality tv there's so many different storylines it can't all fit into certain episodes and so also there's things that aren't given information right we didn't have the information about jordan we didn't know about these escorts we didn't know about the parties to get that information now i think gives so much more clarity even not saying that what you did was correct with your affair but it gives such more backstory to what was going on in your home that none of us were privy to.

1:19:28So I really wish you the best. I wish the whole cast the best. Again, I said this at the beginning, but like this is heavy shit and some heavier than others and traumatizing. But I think I've met you. I've met Taylor. Like I've met Whitney. I've met Connor. Like these are, you know, I've had such great interactions with you guys. And I really hope that everyone can figure this out because I know people love the show, but also like the show doesn't matter if everyone's mental health isn't okay and safety. So I think we're all just like hoping for the best for all of you. And thank you so much for your time.

1:20:05And thinking of your kids and you during this time. Thank you. Thank you for having me and letting me finally be free and speak my truth. Girl, we did it. We did it.

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