Kristin Cavallari: So You Want to Date an Athlete? (FBF)

0:02What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with call her daddy.

0:12are we ready okay that laugh I I'm like I know it so well it's like so weird to be in person with you now okay okay Kristen Cavallari welcome to Call Her Daddy thank you I have always been a huge fan Laguna the Hills owned all the DVDs would watch with my sister would binge watch But another reason I was super excited to have you on was because I follow you on social media. Oh, thanks. I respect everything you're doing, your career, but specifically with your children, you deciding to not really show them and keep that part of their life private. I mean, I really respect it. How did you decide to take that approach and protect your children by keeping them off social media?

0:59Well, thank you, because a lot of people don't understand it. but if you go back to when I first joined Instagram Camden my oldest is on there when he was a baby a little bit okay and then we just decided that we wanted to give them the opportunity to make that decision you know my kids may want no part of being known or whatever and I want to respect that and give them that chance to decide when they're old enough yeah I feel like that's like a huge debate on social media because so many people with social media are posting even like their infants yeah and then there's the debate of like we that's kind of fucked up because they don't have a say and now their whole life is going to be documented and then they're going to get to high school and people are like I have all these Instagram photos of you but I think it's a it's a really good decision and I definitely want to do that when I have children when do you think they'll get on social media I hope not until they're like 20 you're like I'm not giving them a phone they're never gonna be um 16 I'd say it's probably realistic and you know long enough where hopefully they have decently thick skin and can handle some criticism because ultimately like that's my biggest concern with it is just how nasty people can be on social media so yeah and when it's your kids it's like I want to do everything to protect them

2:29There was no social media when you were growing up, but I'm curious, did you have aspirations at all to be on television? I did. And it wasn't really until high school, but before MTV came, I wanted to study broadcast journalism and kind of work my way in the entertainment world through hosting. But then MTV came and everything just kind of fell in my lap. And I thought, But when I graduated high school, I moved up to LA. I started at Loyola Marymount. I literally went to one class, like literally one class. And then I booked a job on UPN, which you guys probably don't even remember that network.

3:04But it was a network back in the day. I was hosting a show. And so my excuse was, well, I'm traveling around the country. I obviously can't go to college. And not that I want to promote not going to college. But it's the best thing I ever could have done. College would have done nothing for me. Right, because you already kind of had a career set in stone because you started in high school, which is like not normal, especially for like television. You're in high school. Now we got to go through it. OK. And MTV picks you to be on their new show. Yeah. What did your parents say when you asked them if you could be on this show?

3:38Well, so I was living with my dad in Laguna Beach. My mom was in a suburb of Chicago. My mom definitely had reservations because at the time MTV was a little scandalous. scandalous at the time you know that was right after the janet jackson boob thing happened at the super bowl and um they didn't have the best rep and so she was a little worried but my dad was all for it and because i lived with my dad i'm pretty sure i only had to have my dad sign off on it you're like mom i'm not even doing it dad why do you think your dad was okay with it i think he saw the opportunity you know i mean he just did and and well also none of us knew what the show was going to turn into.

4:14No. You know, my dad probably at the time was like, oh, cute, a little home movie. No problem. Have fun. Wait, it literally probably was like a school project, dad. No, literally. It just happens to be from MTV. And it's crazy because reality TV really, like no one had got in famous from that yet. Yeah. So it was kind of like an undiscovered concept. So I can kind of understand why parents would be like, sure. Yeah, it wasn't like it is today. No one knew, you know? I mean, totally. Obviously, there was the real world at the time. um I think the simple life had already happened and maybe the Osborne show but other than that there was there was nothing really so yeah we this was uncharted territory we had no idea I'm trying to picture myself in high school getting cast on a show I would have failed out it would have dropped out because dude how did you know you would have fucking crushed it that's the point though I would have been like I'm obsessed I get to go party with boys like how the fuck that was me okay I was wondering like did it fully take over your life oh I mean yeah well yes and no yes in the sense that yes I mean that was like what everyone in Laguna Beach was talking about we filmed every weekend for like nine months or something but because we were still in high school I mean I was actually going to class still and so during the weeks um you know my life was normal I was going to school doing whatever I was doing and then we would film I think sometimes Thursdays but mostly Friday Saturday Sunday when you came out did people that were in your school that weren't on the show treat you guys like no okay what happened was the first season everybody auditioned right everyone did well and then when those people didn't get it fuck MTV blah that whole thing and then those people were on season two and I was like oh really right fuck MTV huh that pissed me off but I mean it's understandable and then when it aired the first season aired I was a senior in high school Talon and I were everyone else graduated went on to school that was the one time the freshman coming in looked at me a little differently and I was like okay this is weird you talked about the fact that your relationship with your dad was hard to heal in therapy when you were growing up what was that core issue between the two of you?

6:27Well, my dad wasn't around a lot, to be honest. We were living in Connecticut before my parents got a divorce and my dad had moved to Colorado. I think I saw him maybe like once a month, like for a while. And then in Colorado is when my parents got a divorce and my dad shortly thereafter moved to Laguna Beach and I was still in Colorado. Then my mom got remarried and I moved to Chicago. And then my freshman year of high school is when I moved to Laguna, moved in with my dad my stepmom who was 20 years younger than my dad and my brother at the time who had also been broken up with he moved to Laguna when I moved to Chicago um and honestly my dad and I were just never close and I just remember in high school I never wanted to be home like I just never wanted to be around that environment so that's why I think I fell into like friendships a lot and going out I was kind of the party girl and I was just you know that's where I found connections Did you want to move to Laguna?

7:22I sort of had to because I was getting in so much trouble in Chicago and I had a major issue with my stepbrother and like all of the pieces just fell into place for me to move. My mom wanted to ship me off to boarding school and my dad said let me give it a go. Let me see if I can control this wild beast. So I moved to Laguna my freshman year of high school and honestly the best thing that's ever happened to me. What were you confident about in high school and what were you insecure about? Well, it's funny because on Laguna Beach, everyone thought I was a super confident kid. And now that I've had to go back and watch the episodes for my podcast, I don't see a confident girl at all.

7:59I see actually someone who's incredibly insecure. You know, that saying, confidence is quiet, insecurity is loud. Well, I was that, you know, I was overcompensating for my insane amount of insecurity. And so I think most kids are a mess. You know, most high school kids, you don't know the fuck you are at 17 years old. But I think really probably because I didn't have a family member in my life that I was really close to. My mom now is my best friend, but at the time we were not close, wasn't living with her. You know, I never wanted to be home. So I think that was probably a large part of it for me.

8:37That is really interesting because I think like watching it back, sometimes when you're in your head about whatever your insecurity is for you you're like I kind of feel like I'm alone out here doing my fucking thing yeah you kind of just have to fake it till you make it exactly was there anything when you were social with your peers that you were insecure about no I mean that's really where I kind of found my identity I think and so I moved around a lot growing up and I think because I was always the new girl I was a survivor like you could throw me in any situation and I was going to figure it out I knew how to navigate through situations that's maybe where like the confidence came from because I wasn't someone who's going to like you know crawl in the corner and and suffer I was like boom here I am let's go but I was faking it though that makes so much sense I can completely relate to that where you're like I'm about to walk in this room and I have two options and so sometimes being like the loud one it just gets you in the door and it immediately if you exude confidence eventually you're going to fucking be yeah exactly yeah if you had to guess who would you be now if the MTV cameras never showed up to your high school oh my god I love that question I mean I think um wow I was never on Laguna Beach I probably would have gone to school and you know did broadcast studied broadcast journalism hopefully would have worked my way in still I don't know I feel like in a lot of ways I probably wouldn't be as far along on my journey as I am today because ultimately being on TV at such a young age and going through everything I've gone through over the years has really forced me to grow up a lot I think the older we get we realize life is building blocks and everything starts to make sense and so I feel like just everything that I've been through like I feel like this was supposed to be my journey so I can't it's hard to sit here and be like well if not because I just feel like I was destined for this I think a lot of people are fascinated because like you said high school is hard enough like high school is such an awkward time you're trying to figure out who the fuck you are you're dealing with peer dynamics family dynamics how did it feel and I think this is where we all are so fascinated with it because it's really not natural to have grown-ups with cameras in your face like I feel like your scenes were always like you chilling in bed with Alex in the morning like discussing what happened the night before but it's like how did it feel having these grown-ups come into your life, stir up drama, and kind of like manipulate these storylines to get a good show going when you're in high school.

11:10Yeah, it's a weird dynamic when you really explain it like that. I mean, my whole life I had trust issues, but then really when you're 17, 18, and you have adults taking advantage of you and manipulating situations, and in a lot of ways just straight up lying to your face. I mean, that's, that'll rock your boat for sure. Trust is like my biggest issue with people. And so that obviously didn't help that situation. And now that I'm older and I've, I've been on the other side of reality shows, like very Cavallari, I was an executive producer, which was the best thing for me to end my reality TV career with that experience because it left a really good taste in my mouth.

11:51But it was also really eye-opening to be involved in those conversations of like oh these are the storylines we're getting and no matter what you do they're gonna get the storyline they want so I understand from a producer's perspective now that I'm an adult why they do the things they do they have a job to do I get all of that I just think it's a tricky thing when you're dealing with children I mean we were kids you know that's where it's like ah it's tough it's really tough because in one part it became one of the biggest shows and then on the other end it's like yo you're in high school that's your life when you say they would lie to your face can you give us an example of something you remember well so I look at Laguna Beach and the Hills as two very different experiences Laguna Beach was more just no one really ever told us what was going on or like what they were trying to do you know no one prepared us for what was coming I just remember one producer in particular before it aired saying well you know you can definitely tell that you're not from Laguna Beach and I was like oh okay like what does that mean and then it came out and I was like oh you mean because everyone's gonna fucking hate me and this is so not who I am you know but like I don't know a bigger heads up would have been nice how much you guys fucked with me that kind of stuff when you say fucked with you are you saying like they really leaned in to try to make you that villain role oh yeah oh yeah and that's why I've really loved doing the Back to the Beach podcast with Stephen because we literally go through scene by scene and break it down.

13:21And it's been therapeutic for me. It's been eye opening. It's been really fun also just to break it all down because I'm not emotionally invested in it anymore. Where at the time I remember Stephen being like, that's not how it went down. But I couldn't hear him or believe him because I was so upset about it. And so, yeah, being able to go back and watch it and just get to the bottom of it. I've loved every second of it. When you realized like wait I look like the villain in this what the fuck did that do to you mentally? I was I was pretty wrecked for a while I was so upset I was really upset when I saw the first episode it was hard.

13:58It was you and Lauren Conrad essentially the first premise was like you guys fighting over a guy. Yeah. Did you and Lauren was it really only over Steven or Or were you two just two personalities that probably would have always butt heads regardless of if a guy was involved? Well, we were never friends, but we never fought or anything, you know. And so MTV coming definitely made it a way bigger thing than it ever was. And Lauren and Steven did have something, but it was before MTV came. And then, of course, MTV caught wind of that. That was like the only thing they focused on. And in a lot of ways, tried to keep it alive.

14:34And that was where I felt really threatened. and so I put up walls I was all I knew how to do at age 17 totally and so yeah it's it goes back to that thing where I was always a survivor and so if I felt like you know threatened and people were like coming after something that was mine aka my boyfriend or whatever it was I was gonna get scrappy I mean that's just what I knew how to do I have had many of your now castmates on I've heard And being on Laguna Beach and the hills and getting to like directly interact with Adam Develo, what was your experience with him? I mean, it was it was never great.

15:14I had my issues with Adam without a doubt. And again, I mean, I kind of said it earlier, but I understand now as an adult why he did the things he did. It's not that I agree with them, but I mean, he had a job to do. So I think my biggest issue with what Adam did was he would create these storylines on the show that were bullshit. But then he would go and feed them to the tabloids. So not only are you living this shit on the show, but then I'm having to answer questions and the tabloids and people are painting this picture of me, which isn't true at all. And again, I get it because the tabloids fueled the show.

15:51And, you know, at the end of the day, it's all fine. It's all worked out. But I had my issues with Adam for sure. I don't think he's a good person, but I think he's a great producer. I'm actually kind of upset, though, because Steven and I were supposed to have him on our podcast. And he, you know, had us going around and around and around. And then two days before we were supposed to film, he pulled out. And it's just shitty because, A, you could have told us up front. And, B, he totally opened up my career, right? Started my career. But we also started his career. like without the cast of season one of Laguna Beach Adam wouldn't be what he is either so I just felt like why can't you come on it's a mutual respect thing answer some questions about how the show is created and we'll call it a day you kind of made him because yeah he had like the format but if you guys didn't show the fuck up and do your iconic scenes like there was not going to be a huge media mogul moment for MTV in that category so it's like Spencer did talk about what happened with Heidi did you know about that and do you know no because that was before I had come on the show um my issue with him was a bribing situation and him uh creating this storyline that I was doing drugs and was out of control I partied my ass off in my early 20s I had a really good time I don't regret anything I was never out of control it was never cause for concern I was never not showering which is like what Us Weekly had said that I needed to go to rehab and all this shit and so that wasn't cool I remember that yeah he bribed the girls to call me out on camera for doing drugs with a purse so but and that was difficult and Adam and I got in a huge fight about it and because what I was doing then because then he fueled it to Us Weekly I would be on camera filming and I'd be like I know it was Adam like going around just running my mouth right and Adam called me and he was like you have to stop saying that I was like but you did that's also fucked and I think that's where I think it's fair for you guys you're not discrediting the show even you sit here and you're saying great producer he knows what the fuck he's doing yeah but I do think it's fair to clear your name because I was gonna ask you that about like there was that huge stint I remember with the hills where it was like she's on drugs she spun out and they like got you when you like just woke up and they were the girls were like trying to have an intervention and I was like is Kristen really on drugs intervention and not that fucks with you because your kids are going to watch that one day like and so I think it's fair for you to be able to at least clear your fucking name with yeah I party like I'm not gonna sit here and say I never did I had a lot of fun yeah I'm glad that I did I got everything out of my system but it was never I never needed rehab no one in my life was concerned about me like it it was totally under control I love if there's if you can be a partier that's under control.

18:41But yeah. And I just hope that Lo learned you always have to get that shit in writing. You know? Because she never got her purse. She didn't? No. Stop. What kind of purse was it? I don't even remember. I want to say it was a Birkin. It was a Birkin. Shut the fuck up. Yeah, but you got to get that shit in writing. Absolutely. I would have been like, give it to me first and then I'll show up. Exactly. Damn, no Birkin for Lo. Sorry, girl. And no rehab for Kristen. Hope it was worth it. When you look back, young Kristen is like in that moment, cameras around. What were the perks of having this show in your life?

19:14And then what was like the most negative part that you look back on now with perspective? I mean, the perks were it was fun. I would get phone calls being in, you know, whatever class during senior year and MTV would be like, hey, can you fly to New York tonight to be on TRL tomorrow? I'm like, yes, absolutely. Like that stuff is fun, you know? I mean, so there was a lot of cool things going to the MTV VMAs and all that stuff was really fun. I mean, I was still in high school, so it's not like I was getting great dinner reservations and stuff. You know, but when I graduated high school and moved up to L.A., yeah, like I never waited in a line at a club or a restaurant.

19:48Like that was it was fun. It was very, very fun. And then the biggest downfall, I'd say, and well, I guess, OK, more so back in the day was the tabloid world, that aspect of it. now I'm not so much in the tabloids like I was back in the day but what I don't like now is every time I feel like I do an interview like what they take they'll take nothing and turn it into headlines for clickbait and that shit really pisses me off still like I just did another podcast and we were talking about dating and I guess we were talking about Instagram um and I said that I only noticed the verified ones because they go to the top I'm not like and we were like joking around so now all these fucking articles are like Kristen's using Instagram as a dating app and it's like no I'm not that's not what I was saying right no I do I totally get that like the spinning of the words and it almost makes you like not want to do shit makes me not want to talk which I think you do love to talk though I know but I feel like in the last few years I don't talk as much because I I'm not people probably don't know this about me they probably think I love all the attention I actually don't unless it's for something positive like my company like on Common James or something.

20:58Then I'm like, all right, that's great. But I really, I don't care about being in the press or the tabloids. I really don't.

21:21Is MTV paying for everyone's therapy? They should be. but no they didn't offer no and actually steven told me on our podcast that they gave him a speech coach and i'm like really because i probably needed one out of everybody and they didn't offer me that they offered him wait back when he was in laguna yeah did he need a speech coach i didn't think so i did i'm like that would have gone against the character they wanted me to be right like rough around the edges like wild kristen how do you think having your first relationship like serious first love and relationship air on tv impacted your future relationships oh um I don't think my relationship being on camera affected my future relationships I think just being in the press then affected my future relationships and again it goes back to that whole trust thing unfortunately I've had to be careful with guys that I date because a lot of guys or what I have found is a few different things.

22:21They get a little taste of fame and they lose their mind. They become addicted to it almost. Or it's really threatening for a lot of guys. So then they get really jealous and insecure about it. So that's been really tricky for me. Wait, when you say they get addicted, how can you immediately tell, oh, fuck, he's turned? It takes me a second. Right. You can just tell. like what I can't fucking stand is when a guy will plant breadcrumbs breadcrumbs you know that yeah yeah yeah on Instagram like I dated a guy I dated a guy who would come to Nashville and he would like tag the location and I'm like why you've never tagged a location in your life why now you're now that shit I can't stand because it's so purposeful like he's looking to kind of be like I hope this gets picked up by someone and I hope there's an article like are they seeing each other like you're disgusting right you're like I don't even know you that well we're trying to get to know each other like before we actually start dating like chill the fuck out or what I've noticed if if it's not about the guy the attention they do not like that so then they're like oh you know like because it's not about you uh-huh so you married someone that was famous and was in the public eye.

23:34How did you meet Jay Cutler? So I, well, I got a call from my publicist in 2009 when I was still filming The Hills. And he said, Jay Cutler wants to fly you to Chicago and take you on a date. And I had no idea who he was. And I just wasn't interested, quite honestly. So I said, no. I obviously told my mom about it, though, because a year later I was visiting my mom who lives in a suburb of Chicago. And we were going to a Bears preseason game with my cousin for actually my friend, Matt Leinart, who was playing on the opposing team. And my mom said, you know, didn't Jay Cutler ask you out? And I was like, oh yeah, I totally forgot about that.

24:15My cousin, who was like the biggest Bears fan, told me what an idiot I am. So long story short, I got his family passes to meet him after the game thinking I would never talk to Jay ever again. And you know, but my cousin would be like over the moon about it. And he walked in and he was a lot cuter in person. And, uh, we hung out two nights later and then honestly we just moved so fast. I mean, we got engaged after eight months and it just moved. What initially attracted you to him? So at the time I remember my life felt very claustrophobic living in LA. I couldn't leave my house without a million paparazzi every day.

24:49And I just was over it. Um, every guy in LA, I felt like was a little bitch, to be completely honest. And I wanted someone who could, like, be the alpha. Because I felt like everything in my life, I was always the alpha. So I wanted to be in the passenger seat for once. Jay checked all of those boxes. And honestly, we just had chemistry. Like, you can't pick and choose who you like. You know what I'm saying? And so we just had that spark. And yeah. So with where I was at at the time in my life, he was perfect for me. I wanted to discuss dating an athlete and marrying an athlete because I've dated.

25:30I was going to say a few. I've dated a lot of athletes. Okay. Everyone knows I've dated a lot of athletes, had serious relationships, flings, whatever. And they're an interesting breed. Yeah. Was Jay your first professional athlete that you dated? No. I have a few under my belt as well. So you kind of already knew kind of the game. You know, it helps when you have them under your belt because you kind of know. I get that world. so well so well you have like the whole playbook ready to go like musicians fucking insane I won't go near another one but athletes I could do that world oh they're all the fucking do that shit in my sleep absolutely what were some of the perks of dating a pro athlete in your mind well in Chicago I mean he was a huge deal you know and so it was like instead of me always having to get a dinner reservation like Jay could fucking do it like dumb shit like that though but it mattered at the time um life was just it was easy and fun with him totally you know did you fit in with the other players wives yeah I did you did I did see I didn't as well because they would want me to go to a luncheon or like there's a lot of that shit which I wasn't a fan I couldn't do no but like yeah we all got along you got along yeah but maybe you weren't like at all the luncheons with like oh god no I don't think I went to a Bears luncheon until like my last season there with them I was like all right they would always ask me and I'd be like ladies I gotta go to work and they'd be like but we have a luncheon at noon on wednesday you're like sorry sorry no but they are sweet they are what i found was most of them had been together since they were like 18 so many of them yeah and i guess i get it and i think that's where maybe it was cool because you had a different dynamic where like a lot of them try to stay with the people that knew them before they got big right and you and jay had a different dynamic because you both were big in your own right so there could kind of be this just mutual like we both have our own things going on that makes sense what were some of the hardest aspects of being married to someone whose job is to play football well I mean I love someone who has their own shit going on so that was great but I think the hardest part was watching him get the shit beat out of him week after week you know football's a really tough sport and so that was difficult especially after we had kids too you know then things just become even more serious but um other than that loved the schedule loved him traveling loved him You go like, please go do you, you know?

27:43Yeah, I also feel like football is like one of the better schedules. It's not bad at all. Baseball, it's like I'll see you never. Oh, bye. Also, that's why they have girlfriends in every city. Every single city. They would always call it like road beef. And I was like, excuse me, why are you saying this in front of me? And my boyfriend's friends would always be like, our road beef in like Minnesota. I dated a baseball player who actually sent flowers to me and one of my friends on Valentine's Day. I mean, this is so long ago. But yeah, I was like, oh. no shame no shame they're like what no literally and totally told me he had a girlfriend up in San Francisco like I mean oh yeah I was like okay well hey there's something about the honesty wait they're like but like she's my girlfriend in that city you're like you're here why why no did you ever worry about Jay's behavior on the road when he was gone I didn't and that's why football is actually a good sport because they're gone for one night they have curfew the night before it's the night before a game as soon as the game's over they get right on a plane and come home there's no room there's no I mean listen they do and they have and they will continue to but at the time I didn't have any reason to suspect suspect how did the dynamic of your marriage change once Jay retired I mean it actually kind of didn't and we started very Cavallari right away and so um it kind of it didn't he was just around a lot more okay so you guys were getting to spend more time a lot more time yeah initially when you got engaged you postponed the wedding you said one of the reasons was you didn't want to be a stay-at-home wife what made you think that you would have to be staying at home if you got married I mean it was so much bigger than that though I think I probably said that at the time to like say something and move on but um basically I ended the or I called off the engagement the same reason I got a divorce.

29:34Same reasons, I should say. And so I guess if there's any takeaway from that is you can't ignore red flags. People don't change. And you got to trust your gut. I was 23 when I met Jay. You know, I was a baby. And at the time in my life, getting married and having kids was the next natural step. I'd gotten everything out of my system. And I don't regret anything at all. and I really am thankful for our time together but um yeah I just think you know now I'm so different dating I see shit a mile away and now it's like no I'm actually not gonna put up with that because you know what it is now for me it's a huge turn off instead of being like oh well you know maybe he'll change maybe we could fix him it's like no no no no goodbye totally I don't have time for that anymore you say it wasn't because of loss of love that you guys got divorced but because you couldn't be in a toxic relationship anymore what was toxic about it so here's my only thing because I have three kids with him I'm very careful about what I say if you and I didn't have microphones in front of us I'd fucking tell you but you know that's their dad and my oldest googles us now and I just want to be very careful my mom never said anything bad about my dad growing up and I really respected that and I want to be that kind of mom and even if I don't say anything the headlines will say I fucking trashed him somehow so I just you know it was toxic I think period end of story that's all I kind of need to say when did your family and friends realize forever they did okay because I know sometimes you can like try to hide it because I actually yeah okay I kind of hid it from some of my friends my mom knew every step of the way and my best friend Stephanie um who's in Chicago but like Justin my best friend he didn't realize it until he moved to Nashville and then he saw it firsthand when you get to a place where you are trying to hide stuff from your friends or your family that's also a red flag for yourself like why aren't you telling your friends it's so true and then it's like to get out and then it's almost harder once that you're so deep in it by yourself that then to try to lone ranger yeah your own island and then you're like how do I even tell my friends because I've been faking this for so long But you're saying your family knew.

31:47So you weren't fully alone. Yeah, my mom knew. My mom knew. And because my mom went through some similar stuff with my dad. She was actually the perfect person for me to have. She understood what I was going through. And so that was good. I also think it's really important if you do have issues with your dad, obviously for girls especially, to work through that shit before you get married. Because otherwise we end up with our dad. when you think you have any fucking issues with just even like your family yeah your parents that shit if you don't work on that you're about to turn right around and do the same fucking shit and so it can be a little bit of like a daunting process but you have to work through it or you're gonna marry your father exactly when you are breaking up with someone it fucking sucks yeah even if you no matter what side you're no matter what yeah and what is worse especially with social media is like it's hard to see someone move on yeah how did it make you feel or does it make you feel like if you still see or when if he's like out with other people like I hope that he finds someone yeah I really do I mean I want him happy my kids benefit from that you know so I hope that he gets remarried and I mean I really do obviously the first time I heard about it it stung a little yeah that's anybody you know but totally and I'm friends with almost all of my exes and I I I think that that's a good thing like I really value the time I've had with everybody I've learned from every relationship I've had and I really want all of my exes to be happy and be in a great relationship for young women listening it's fucking hard to end something that especially I'm sure when you have children, like you have deep ties with someone, there is love there because what you've created, the world you've created with this person.

33:34But when you know something's not right for you, how did you like mentally work through ending it officially? Cause that is hard. It's really scary. I mean, it took me a few years to actually pull the trigger, to be honest. For you, was it just time or were you finally like, okay, something happened? Like now I'm gonna do it no it was more just time it was like nothing major happened at the end you know it was just time and I remember always asking my mom like well how am I gonna know and she would be like you'll just know and I did I just kind of knew and you know it's the scariest thing it's also the saddest thing I mean it's so many emotions but it can also be the best thing you know and so I really don't think anything good comes easy really like with anything in life And so but also you don't want to like just make an impulsive decision either.

34:26And I think that's why it's important to write it out. I've also seen couples that have worked through shit and come out on the other side, you know. So, I mean, you I think with any relationship, you just have to realize what are deal breakers for you, what's important to you and what's not. And I was really unhappy. I mean, and that was the bottom line. And I was in an unhealthy relationship. And so that to me is not worth it. Also, I didn't want my kids thinking that was normal. and you know I wanted them to see me happy and see me eventually not right now but eventually see me with someone who really respects me and treats me the way I need to be treated

35:18okay you are now recording a laguna beach rewatch podcast with your ex-boyfriend in high school i don't know if i could ever fucking sit down with my ex-boyfriend be like let's And also the fact that you have to rewatch it. It's like, holy fuck. Do you see yourself ever hooking up with Steven again? No, I went to dinner with him almost two years ago and we kissed, which was fun. I mean, we had had a couple of drinks and yeah, we were just fun, you know? Right. And then I was actually dating someone at the time. You know, I'm just making up for lost time. And so I think that was kind of what the issue was, was that I was dating someone else.

35:57and it just kind of just didn't turn into anything. Do you feel like you guys are like, because you know how everyone's like your first love. Like, do you think there's any way you would explore it again? No, I really, once I'm done with someone, I'm done. It's like a light switch flips and I can't go back. Are you guys having that moment? I actually feel like this is something I would think about in high school. It's like, are you guys having any of those moments where together you kind of regress back to the high school version of yourself together because you do even know adult versions of each other well we've kept in touch and we would hang out a little bit before I got married and stuff but um and I think had we not gone to dinner almost two years ago I don't know that the podcast would I don't know that we would have well I'm sure we would have had the same chemistry but it put me at ease because I was like I know that we still can, you know, banter back and forth, have fun together.

36:51So that was a good thing. You need to take us through the last date you went on. Okay. Where did you go? Did you like the person? Kristen, give us the tea. This is a good story, actually. Okay. Okay. Tell us. Here we go. So I hate actors, you know? I've always known that. Like, in my early 20s, I went out with a few and I was like, they're the worst. But an actor asked me out. I was like, all right. So this was in LA. This was probably like two months ago. And I went to Laurel Hardware. God, I hope he doesn't hear this. It's okay. I've gone on dates there too. Let's just pretend it was me there, but you there.

37:27Who was it? We don't know. Keep going. Laurel Hardware. That's a good place for drinks. So he was slamming drinks, like slamming drinks. And then at one point he was telling me he does his own stunts. We were sitting at the bar. Okay. It's fucking packed. He gets up to reenact a stunt that he had done accidentally runs into the waiter and is like oh I'm so sorry I was like please sit the fuck down I can't just creating all this commotion in the middle of Laurel Hardware I am so turned off you did he tried to do a stunt reenacting a stunt in the middle of a packed restaurant I was like please sit down also like just drawing so much attention like oh my god also why are you doing a stunt in Laurel Hardware sit the fuck down and to confirm From anyone that's not from LA, that is a packed bar.

38:12It is not a hardware store. Thank you very much. It was awful. So then did you talk to him afterwards? He's texted me a couple times. And I can't be, I can't just like ghost someone. Right. But I give him like a one word response. I don't even know him when I kid. Unless we're in a serious relationship. Dude, literally. Okay, so you're just kind of like, I get that. Wait, why do you think you can't ghost someone? I'm too fucking nice, which people would not know about me. I'm too nice. Really? Yeah. I wouldn't want to be ghosted either. I would actually appreciate someone just being like, hey, you know what?

38:42You're great, but like didn't feel any chemistry. Totally. Which I said that to another guy. I was like, hey, I didn't feel any chemistry. And his friends were making fun of me for weeks about it. I'm like, I actually thought I was being like mature, not wasting anyone's time. I love that. What can they say to that? Exactly. You can't say anything. He deleted my number and told all of his friends and everyone was making fun of me. I'm like, OK, well, that's thank you for validating why the fuck I don't like you. And like I'm an adult and like, sorry, you couldn't take the fucking truth. I'm like, I'm trying not to waste anyone's time.

39:08like let's move on if you are not having a good time on a date because I feel like this is me and I'm wondering if it would be you they won't know that I'm not having a good time I'm gonna like people please it up and be like yeah laughing and then he's gonna think we're leaving and I'm having the best time and I'm not gonna talk to him can are you do you give signs on a date if you're not into it I know because that same thing like I'll fucking show up to the party you know but what I've been doing is I won't go on dinner dates I will get a drink smart they usually turn into dinner because again I'm too fucking nice but like this guy who was acting out stunts got dinner with him like what am I doing you're like let's get the ravioli dude like I gotta go home fuck yeah so because I know because I need to come up with a better game plan like oh I have an early morning you know right actually this is another funny story I almost want to say who I was with in my early 20s okay you have to uncall her daddy come on all right I'll say it don't say it it's in your early 20s this is going don't say it all right I'll tell you the story so I went on a date with a guy this is my early 20s height of my partying career right okay he was vegan and he was sober and I was like um one or the other right pick one preferably both but or like be both so I was like I have an early morning well sorry went back to his house made out with him on his bed I was like I have a really early morning tomorrow got it you know changed in my car went to Hyde I'm such a dumbass of course there's paparazzi the next day he was like my friend saw you at Hyde I was like oh really you're like it's so crazy I was on my way home and I got an email that the event in the morning was canceled so I thought you were asleep I'm gonna go to Hyde I felt so bad I felt so bad and he's really cute but like at the time in my life totally I'm eating me and I'm drinking a lot of alcohol.