Lucy Hale: Sober Doesn't Mean Boring (FBF)

0:02What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with call her daddy. Lucy Hale, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you. I am so happy that I'm finally meeting you. I, this is happening. We're here. We're here. It's, I was just saying, your room is exactly how I thought it would make me feel. Oh, cozy. This is so great. Thank you for having me. Cozy. You also just told me that your mom is a fan of Call Her Daddy, so I'm immediately like, bow down, Mama Hale. Hi, hi, Julie. Yeah, I was talking to her last night, and she was just like, how's your jet lag? What are you doing tomorrow? I was like, I'm actually doing a podcast.

0:39and she goes, which one? I said, call her daddy. She goes, I love call her daddy. I was like, mom. She knows all the cool things. She actually keeps me young. I love that for you. And I love that for me because a mother liking the show is the highest compliment. So hello, Julie. You're doing so many things right. I want to go back to the beginning because I feel like obviously we've seen you on television, but maybe there are people that are like, where are you from? I don't know you. So who are you? Who are you, Lucy? Let's get into it. I'm still figuring it out. Yeah. So obviously you moved to LA super young, but you grew up in Memphis, Tennessee.

1:12I did. Can you talk to me about like, what were you like as a child? I lived in Tennessee until I was 15 and kind of split a lot of my time with my mom, who is in Memphis, and my dad, who lived in Mississippi. Very simple upbringing, like two hardworking parents. My dad's a farmer. My mom was a nurse. um I was a very um sensitive child I still consider myself a sensitive gal um which I now view as like a good thing but growing up you know you're I was having I just felt like very emotional and very kind of misunderstood which is I think why I wanted to become an entertainer because I felt like, oh, what an amazing outlet for me to ultimately be anyone other than myself.

2:05So I think, you know, as a kid, I was having all of these thoughts and I just needed a place to put all these feelings. And so I started taking singing lessons and acting lessons. And my mom and I moved to California when I was 15 and I never left. So I've been here 19 going on 20 years. Can you talk a little bit about that of like feeling misunderstood? Like, give me an example. I think, you know, whether I was misunderstood or not, who really knows? But in my little sensitive child brain, I was like, I felt like an alien. I felt like an alien amongst my friends. I felt like an alien in my family sometimes.

2:49And I don't, I can't really pinpoint like the moment in my life where that all started happening but I do remember having a feeling at a very young age of being like I think in this life like I have myself and we're gonna have to get through it by myself I don't know where that came from I have no idea but you know I felt like being artistic and being emotional I couldn't really find a good friend group growing up and I think that that's where that feeling of being misunderstood started um I do consider myself really introverted actually which is like people are always surprised to say that because of my job which is like very extroverted but my job makes me feel really uncomfortable sometimes and um and I think that being an actor it's I'm hiding behind a veil of something like the last couple years of my life because of my job and like finding success pretty early on and doing all these things I didn't get a chance to figure out who I actually was and if I did I didn't really like who I was so I was like running away from myself for so long yeah for so long and so the last couple of years I think and this is to tie it back around I think I was feeling so misunderstood by a lot of people for so long because I didn't understand myself.

4:18How can other people understand you if you have no fucking idea who you are? It's so interesting you say that because when I started dating my now fiance, I like grew up in Pennsylvania. I looked at actors like gods and I thought that they had the best lives in the world. And my fiance being a producer, like I started to talk to him about the industry more and he was like, I have a lot of empathy for actors because what people don't see on the other side of it is like we fall in love with you and your character of like who you play on a certain tv show or whatever it is or in a movie but what you guys are dealing with is like you're handed a script that you're told to like get into character of this person and you can really lean in but like there's a lack of like autonomy of like actually having control in a lot of these ways so people are falling in love with something that like you tried to bring to life but it's also not you so it's kind of a weird thing of like it is weird it is weird and then also being a part of something that lasted for so long and being a part of that while I was figuring out who I was I was like I don't even am I this character or am I me like and and then seeing people fall in love with this experience and fall in love with that character I'm like well maybe I should be more like this character because I don't really know who I am.

5:39And I can only obviously speak from my experience, but I do find that a lot of actors feel similar in the sense of like, I think we fall into this line of work because we're kind of filling some sort of void. It's like on some level where we're all like a little broken or like a little or a lot insecure. In my case, I was like, I think this is going to make me feel like I'm whole if all these people like me and I book these jobs and I look a certain way and um does it temporarily feel great hell yeah I'm not gonna lie like it does feel great I love my job I love certain aspects of it but that doesn't fix what's broken in you and it makes it worse I was gonna say it's almost like you can like hide even more behind it and also go down a trail of like oh my god I can imagine you're so young and you're like is this my personality like am I like this like yeah do I like this type of man like I was even dressing like the character off camera and of course I'm like you know I started that when I was 20 years old so but still like yeah I would be fucked up being like first I also want to know because obviously Memphis is so wildly different than Los Angeles yeah and so before you move at what age did your parents get divorced I think I was four and I have very vivid memories of like the conversation um and somehow knowing at that age that it was a good thing why did you feel that way did you see them fight a lot yeah okay yeah it wasn't very calm I think there was a lot of chaos in the house and as we get older we start to realize like even when you were saying like I was introverted like I felt misunderstood as I've gone through therapy I'm like so much of why we are the way we are it's before even peer dynamics it's like what was happening in your house well don't they say that you are who you are between the ages of two and five yeah well holy crap like right you know like that was when things really blew up and I think at a very young age that is when like my desire to please everyone started like I just wanted everyone to be happy I wanted mom to be happy I wanted my dad to be protected um I've always been like fiercely protective of my dad and and I think um as a kid you everything is personal you think everything's your fault so you're like okay if I just act a certain way then maybe mommy and daddy will be happy and life will be perfect and I find that a lot of women feel similar to me in the people pleasing I think it's holy moly we do a whole episode on that I mean and undoing it I'm in like the process of undoing being a people pleaser because it's so hard for my brain to accept that I can be nice and set boundaries because all of my 20s I was like you know what if I'm the nicest one people will like me more and it's like well that's just not that's getting complete abandonment of self so you're just like I'll just take it and I'll just yeah be quiet on that or whatever but then you start to be like okay wait why am I getting taken advantage of like all the time yeah and it's difficult to like start to do something and go against something that like you have done your whole life the opposite way yeah I think at a young age I just realized I just wanted people to like me I always felt like life would be fine if you know everyone was happy and people just accepted me and I'm like god that's sad that at a young age I felt those things but even you saying like when you're in your house being like if i'm the peacemaker like maybe things will calm down like i think that's like it can weave into then like your peer dynamics of like you're just like keep the peace everybody like me like i just want to like be here be quiet like don't exactly it's the quiet thing but i do think it's really relatable especially i think as women of like wanting to be noticed and seen and heard and then also feeling deeply insecure when you are being seen and heard because yeah we're we're basically taught to doubt ourselves like it's different with men like as girls it's like be polite sit down be lady like it's like what am i doing it right and i think it can create a lot of like division in your brain of like what you want versus like what your natural instinct is which is like and then what society has taught us like of how to be so i am with you on that girl i vividly vividly remember a moment in my life.

10:06I was upstairs. I was with my karaoke machine. I think I was like singing something from Pink. And I remember thinking my life will be different. My life is going to be different. I don't belong here. Don't you think that's like a normal human instinct though that like when you're in such a situation like I felt that way with my Catholic school upbringing of like so Catholic. Every Sunday we had to go to church. We had to do this. When you're in like a system that is like forcing you to like be a specific way your brain can't help but be like what if i just went that way yeah but you can't help but be like like is it i'm just completely agree i'm just laughing because i love kelly clarkson and there's that song break away i was like that was the moment yeah i'm like we're getting out of here baby like and we did is what's crazy right and so this moment i remember it was like i was sitting on this like crazy shaggy carpet we had upstairs and I was like no we're gonna do some things and of course I didn't know what that meant I just intuitively knew that I wanted something special and different for myself dude I'm dying thinking of you up in your bedroom like and break away also I thought I was gonna be Kelly Clarkson 2.0 didn't we all back to Lucy anyway back to you okay so you say you moved to LA when you are 15 okay and what I read your mom had to take out her retirement money to get you guys there did you feel like excited guilty pressure I'm not gonna lie I felt zero guilt but only because I knew it was gonna work out um I think as time went on I I did feel a little guilt of what my mom actually sacrificed.

11:57And I often am like, that was truly unhinged that we drove across the country. And you, you know, she was a nurse and she would work nights. She would drive me to my auditions during the day and sleep in the car. Oh, wow. Yeah, she's amazing. My mom moved back to Tennessee when I was 17. because by then I was doing little jobs here and there, enough to go spend my money at Forever 21 and have a shitty apartment. But things started moving relatively quickly when we got here, enough for my mom to be like, okay. But it's also really interesting because when I look back at that experience, instead of – if I'm completely transparent, instead of thinking of all the amazing things, which I can now like hold so much gratitude and space for that.

12:48I look back on that and I think of all the things that were happening behind the scenes and how I was feeling and the things I was dealing with and things I was running away from and the pressure of being on this show that was so adored by people. And so I think it's okay for like to hold space for how amazing it was, but also to know that like that was very painful and challenging for me to navigate. Because I think what was going on behind the scenes were things I would have no doubt dealt with whether I lived in Tennessee, Timbuktu, or LA. I know that because like we talked about, these things happen when you're a tiny baby child, you know?

13:31Totally, totally. And so I don't know on what end of the spectrum it would have been on, But I do know that the success and the notoriety and everything happening really amped up, ramped up the intense feelings that I was like desperately trying to shove in that emotional baggage trunk. When I hear you saying that too, I feel like, which I think this is like the beauty of people and I think it's gotten so much better in the past few years of like finally people starting to actually speak about things that they experience like I think about Rob Pattinson and Kristen Stewart for so long not wanting to talk about Twilight and people like because when you have these like beloved projects that we as viewers are just like I love you we love it this is perfect we are obsessed with you girls we love you all are you guys all best friends do you guys all love each other is everything perfect there's this like idealization of it that I think as you guys as the characters in it probably feel this responsibility to like smile through and be like we love it because you're you're the image like yeah you are almost responsible for keeping all these like young girls dreams alive of how much they loved the show and you don't want to be like I was struggling while I was doing this yeah but you're also a human being and that was your reality and you're talking obviously about how there are things going on behind the scenes.

14:58Talk to me. Yes. So I will say that I didn't graduate high school. And so that's a little context of, you know, I was emancipated at 17. It's taken me many years, many breakdowns, many experiences to realize what I was actually feeling in those moments. I think any young female no matter where you are what you do you feel pressure you want to look a certain way you want to be a certain weight you like you just want people to accept you and to like you you want not maybe not everyone maybe there are some healthier minds mindset liars uh but you know you you want attention from guys you just want you just want to be liked simply put you want to be liked and so I before I had even booked I struggled heavily with the eating disorder and like looking back now it's you know I look at a picture and I don't think oh wow like I'm like oh I can tell exactly based off of my weight or what was going on what I was going through at the time I was not healthy I was not healthy and in it you know and it makes me sad almost because obviously no one else knew that I wasn't healthy but to to know that young women were watching this show and and I of course I didn't know who I was yet but I was I just want people to know that that what that's not yeah I was not in a good place and and so I you know I was dealing with the eating stuff and the food stuff which ultimately um is is just feeling completely out of control uh once again would have dealt with this no matter what I did for a living but it's kind of you know I chose an industry that like um really heightened all of that for me uh yeah like I have very vivid memories of watching some of the show and being like disgusted as and being like well we gotta stop eating we gotta and it was just because I was overwhelmed like I I don't I'm not sure how I would have done it any differently like I was doing the best I could and and it did I think like having that kind of control over my body or my weight it did make me feel good because I was like my life is changing and I don't know where I fit in in the show with these girls like I at least I have this one thing that I can control that's interesting you're like that's the one thing that you knew you were in full control of even if it was unhealthy and hurting you you were like I gave me this false sense of security and I held on to that for a really long time can you talk to me about that because I think that the dynamic of having these beautiful women on set you yourself included we all compare ourselves like I look back to myself in high school and like the jealousy of like the girl that I was like oh my god she's so beautiful I want to look like her and like it's just how we are conditioned as women of like yeah who's the prettiest in the group who's the skinniest who's the this like how did you handle that with all all of you being so gorgeous and you're all staring at each other I think at the time I would have told myself like we're not competitive and of course I'm only speaking for me of course there was of course I felt the pressure not to be prettier or to look better but to like keep up because I did look at Shay and Troy and Sasha and Janelle and Ashley and I was like what the fuck these are angels amongst me and like do I fit into that there was often it was often it was more and people always wanted to pit us against each other and were we all best friends no yeah some of us connected some of us did not did we have rough patches of course we were in our fucking 20s of course like obviously but like there was always a lot of love i i feel like but but yeah there was a lot of nights where i'm like okay i don't know i don't know how to keep up with this i don't know if i want to keep up with this this is and it like would eat away at me yeah and i don't know how i've actually never talked to them the other girls about this i don't know if they felt the same way um i also think that it's different now where women are more supportive of each other i think it's kind of ingrained in us as women it's like in our dna that like there can only be one yep it's fucking bullshit it's so fucking crazy and it's not like we've all been conditioned that way and it's like we can all thrive we can all thrive and look amazing and be amazing and be kind and root for each other there's enough room I just like that sort of mindset of like there's not enough for everyone is like the scarcity mindset is very and and I think there was an element of that on the show because realistically like there were magazine covers they were only choosing one and it's that's just human nature it wasn't that I didn't want to root for them I did I love them I still love them to this day like I'm so proud that we maintained a level of like it felt like a family you know you don't always vibe with certain family members but like your family right yeah yeah but god and I see all these like new shows with young women and I'm I just I'm like I know I know what it probably feels like right you were there yeah when you but it's also that's high school too you know no that's what that was my high school it's so crazy i it gets i get frustrated when i'm not saying people have to be fighting but like you can tell it's like there's no fucking way on every cast that everyone gets along like sure we can glamorize like but we love our show it's our favorite show it's like babe if you put five six seven girls in a fucking room like not everyone's gonna get along yeah and I think some of the gals really did connect and bond in a big way and I and I I've always found it tricky to connect with people because I I like to connect I like this is why we're vibing because we're talking about like the things I love to talk about and I I just always not only on that show I've found it trickier to find the people that I want to connect with and so I would kind of just sit in my little corner and like live in my own world and tell myself you know that I was misunderstood but in reality it's just certain people connect and certain people don't connect but I did feel kind of a pressure pressure because I remember sometimes reading online that the fans of the show would notice that I wasn't in pictures with certain people and I think that's where these rumors started of like they don't like Lucy or and it really wasn't that it was just like I was marching to the beat of my own drum and I didn't and I knew I knew the perception of it and I maybe knew how it was coming across but I also knew that I wasn't going to force yeah yeah it's something to happen well it's it's very similar to what you described as your childhood like exactly you're sitting there feeling misunderstood you're very in your own head you're alone you're emotional but you're like kind of a loner you're like i had maybe like not as many friends and i was kind of like introverted that doesn't just fucking change because you get on a cool set with a bunch of cool chicks and you're like oh my god we're all famous now like you're still the same lucy in tennessee so it's like that i i appreciate you saying that because i do think a lot of times people are like why can't i be a certain way especially when you're in a room with women maybe that are more outgoing or more clicky and connecting that's just fucking life I think that was it yeah I think I've had to accept that I just so desperately when I was younger I wanted to be have a it wasn't even that I wanted to look differently I wanted to have a different personality I was like damn it why am I not more fun I always felt like boring and I felt like I didn't have a lot to say I definitely because I didn't graduate high school was like oh well I'm not smart people aren't gonna listen to me.

23:43I built like all of these narratives in my head where I was like this is the truth. I'm gonna stand by it. Which is why which I'm sure we'll talk about which is why your girl wanted to drink right? Because I could be fun. I could be sexy. I could be hysterical. I could be a bitch. I could be whatever I wanted to be and my brain shut off. But like undoing all of these narratives that I believed and stood by for so long has been the biggest challenge of my life. Harder than giving up drinking harder than my career it's like actually rewiring my brain into believing like no I am smart I do have shit that's important that I want to say yeah um I'm worthy I am more than the way I look like all of these things that we tell ourselves and I love it now I love like I have an addictive personality but now I'm like driven by this need to okay I want to know more about myself i want to do more i want to be better i want to understand and learn yeah no i i get what you're saying about like which is so hard and again i think a lot of women can relate to that of like having something in your head that you believe about yourself and if you asked your friend or your family member they'd be like what are you talking about yeah we know like we you're so smart or you're so talented or you're so this what are you it's like we are our own enemy and if it goes down too far into a like a dark hole like it is just you own it and you believe it and it's like how do you even begin to like unravel that because you have to live your day-to-day life you're still going on with your job and your interactions it's like that's what you're broadcasting to the world energetically i would make myself feel very small and that my ideas didn't matter because if i walked into a room everyone else's ideas were more important than mine and it had to I think it had to do with this this idea of not feeling smart or feeling like people didn't care okay okay let's talk about you have talked about your journey with sobriety before and I kind of want to just I've never talked about alcoholism on Caller Daddy I've never talked about struggling with alcohol I've never talked about first I'm the first I'm the sober you're the cherry popper you are popping it right now let's go back to the beginning of what age did you like first try alcohol in the womb no I'm just kidding my mother gave me a little taste of tequila okay the first time ever that I tried alcohol yeah or like maybe when you started drinking I mean I will say the first time I ever had alcohol I think it's important to talk about because I was probably 12 13 and I was in Florida on a vacation I was like wearing a crop top halter top thing for some reason I remember the shirt I was wearing and we drank green apple pucker which is a chaser anyway I remember my very first experience with alcohol was exactly how it was when it ended I blacked out at 12 blacked out at 12 years old I couldn't I don't remember what happened I got very sick I threw up and I remember being so distraught when I realized what had happened and I was like oh my god my mom is gonna be so disappointed in me like um this is I feel so scared right and that's at 12 so I didn't start regular of course I drink here and there from 12 to 18 but um I remember shame every experience after drinking because my drinking was never normal right I never drank normally and I mean literally every time I drank I wasn't always sloppy blacking out yeah a lot of the time I was but I was drinking it was very clear I was drinking to escape something even at a young age um and so I I would say around like age 18 when my mom moved back to Tennessee is when it was happening a lot but but I also you're like a teenager I didn't realize I had a problem yep until my early 20s when I'm like why do I still want to drink after a night out like why why can't I just have two glasses of wine why am I thinking about drinking all the time why do I feel so uncomfortable if I'm not drinking when I'm out It was like all these questions and I don't know if I ever talked about this before.

28:37This might be a first. I went to rehab when I was 23. I don't even think anyone on the show knew. And it was my choice too. That was like a very pivotal moment in my life. I like wasn't ready to give up drinking, which is why I didn't get sober until I was 32. too, but there was like deep fear of what would happen if I continued acting this way for a very long time. And when I tell you I've tried, I had tried so many different things, rehab, outpatient, inpatient, trauma center, therapy, medication, you name it. And there was always like a very strong desire to want to stop. But I think just being, I don't know how I would have gotten sober in my 20s in LA on a, being successful.

29:30Like, I, which is why I have so much empathy for people in the media that are struggling. Because I was like, it's so fucking hard. And I, you know, I just was in this very sad cycle for all of my 20s. Can I? Okay. Yeah. First of all, thank you for sharing that. Because again, it almost goes back to like, there's like the career that you want to uphold and you want to like be remembered for something great. And that doesn't mean you can't also be open about the struggles you were going through. But I do think it's difficult for people to be like, am I allowed to like, should I say this about myself?

30:18Like, will people want to work with me? Like, should I even like, I can imagine that goes through your head because I know people don't open up probably for that fucking reason. There was no way in hell I was going to openly talk about this. I was so deeply ashamed of myself and my choices and the person I was when I drank. Yeah. There was no it it is actually mind-blowing like if you would have told me at that age you know 10 years from now you're going to be doing a podcast and you're going to be talking about being sober and alcoholism I would have said you are fucking insane no because these things I'm talking about I'm only able to speak about them because I have actively worked through and let go of the shame yep that was so ingrained in who I was I I don't feel like I and I don't really blame anyone for not helping you know the people in my inner circle definitely knew my friends my family my suite manager but no one on the show really knew because I didn't talk about it and so I think there was a lot of maybe concern from people and people also are like how did you maintain a job well my drinking was very it was binge drinking so I wasn't drinking every day but when I would drink you would drink she's like bye that's what I was gonna say yeah you take me to like what would a typical night or day of drinking be like for you back then so it usually would start and I was because I because my job was very important to me like I I think maybe only I never let it come interfere with that because like I knew if I lost that I would not be okay yeah um it doesn't mean it didn't seep through the cracks sometimes because like yeah I did show up to work hung over sometimes yeah I did I can look at pictures of my eyes and I'm like oh you hung over bitch like I know what you were up to last night exactly and so I think it was maybe clear to to people yeah yeah people aren't dumb that's the thing about like addicts alcoholics you think you're being so secretive so and I can I feel it in a room I can I know I know and like in a non-judgy way I'm just like oh I think they're struggling you know and isn't that so interesting and then you probably walked in being like no one knows no one knows and maybe they're like yeah Lucy you reek or like Lucy you like your eyes are bloodshot or did you sleep but okay a night of yes you know kind of looked that that was a scary thing is it was a wild card and I was always like well this could be a really fun because some nights don't I I also like in hindsight I look back I had some great memories drinking super fun but you never knew what you were gonna get so some nights would be you know great I'd be home at a decent hour I'd you know chug some water before bed and take some Advil and I'd wake up and feel fine or it would be a night that turned into a Saturday that turned into a Sunday where I'm like why are there drugs on the table like who are these people why are these people in my house like it would just be all over the place yeah and I think I was also attracting people in my life that were also really struggling and I think one thing and also I just think that anyone who's listening to this I get really emotional Lucy don't cry I cry all the time you cry I just think something that really

34:07something that really I struggled with a lot growing up is like I remember people people some people I worked with some people in my friend group that just thought I was a wild child and thought I just like to party and like oh it's gonna be or like people wouldn't invite me places because they knew how it would get and I just want to say that anyone who behaves that way it's clearly coming from a place of pain and so anyone who may or may not be struggling with this like I think it's so important and what's really helped me is like you have to find the people who get it find people who understand and that you can connect with because you're not fucking alone in that feeling and like I think I felt that for so much of my life I was like it was the misunderstood thing right and then it was like actually being reflected back to me because I was being misunderstood because I was like I don't just like to chug tequila or I did but like right but I but I'm also like in pain I'm in pain and I also remember vividly I will not name names but I remember vividly hearing someone who was in kind of my inner circle at the time saying god sober people are so boring and I was like you know what sober people at the time I was like sober people are boring am I boring and I also want to say to anyone who might be struggling I remember Miley Cyrus said one time she's like there you can say a lot of things about me too it was like because I think she's she she's talking about sobriety she was like but I am not boring I find some of the most interesting complex beautiful human beings that I know struggle in this way and that is your gift don't let anyone ever tell you like your mistakes don't define you like your sensitivity because I find that a lot of sensitive people turn to alcohol turn to drugs because you're trying to numb down your gifts oh can you tell I could talk about this all the time it's really powerful because I number one I feel really I have seen it too like I've had people in my life that I'm like oh my god like I know you're struggling but it is hard to be with someone that is blacking out that is a liability like it's difficult it's hard but it's it's obvious they're struggling and I think that's the thing that you're right people don't have any fucking grace or time for it in moments and I think yeah you were clearly struggling I guess you kind of having this like binge moment and then being able to get to work like I relate a lot and you don't even have to be someone that like struggles so much with alcohol to the point where like I've been in moments in my life where like staying out late and partying nothing ever good comes from it And I remember like, no, I remember the, the moments in when I was living in New York, I'd gone through a really bad breakup and I was really struggling with like party culture just felt like I wanted to be a part of it because I felt like I could, I don't know.

37:22I felt like I, I felt really alone at that point in my life. I didn't, my friends weren't in the city. I was like, I have no one. And so I found this group of people that were always partying drugs and you bond over that. there is like a there's there should be a whole conversation about the people you bond with when you're partying yeah and so I remember like I had never I had never done drugs I because I'd played soccer my whole life like I'd never done that and I remember getting into a phase in New York where like I tried drugs and like yeah I would be at an after party and there were drugs on the table and I and it was also because I'm drinking if I was sober I'm not doing the job the same way right yeah all of a sudden you find yourself and I wonder if if you're comfortable talking about that of like how you can also slip into like when you're drunk anything goes baby and anything you're like is that cocaine is that a cigarette is that what are we doing what is yeah and what is who who is that yeah you know and you have no idea where it even came from girl and you're not gonna be smart you're just gonna take it girl I it's so interesting because I

38:29yes just what you said like I would have never I would have never thought to do cocaine if I weren't drinking but but I think alcohol was just this gateway into being whoever I wanted to be I didn't have to be sweet I could be sloppy and yeah I could do cocaine if I wanted to you know what I could sleep with that guy if I wanted to and maybe his friend you know it's like Like, not that I'm, you know, I look back and I have compassion. So I was like, oh, babe. But it was just, I didn't have an outlet in my regular normal life to, like, release this wild side and release this bad side. Because ultimately, like, I still have those elements to me.

39:11Right. That doesn't go away. Your shadow side is fucking cool, I think. And so I've had to learn how to be friends with these things that brought me shame. and that people and the other thing was like I knew people were talking shit about me I knew people were were not even spreading rumors it was the truth and I just tried to cover it up for so long and and that even fueled more drinking so it was like how do I get out of this cycle it's gonna kill me literally yeah oh well did you ever have like a moment where it was like you're in the hospital and you wake up yeah I you know I was never I never wanted to die but like the way I was acting sometimes I'm like wow it's a I would wake up and be like well it's kind of a miracle I'm here um I did have moments where I would have to go to the hospital and like get IVs I yeah you know it got it got really dark it got I'm not even gonna lie it got really dark I was very sad I was very scared I think ultimately I was like okay well we have some options when I when I got I'll be sober I'm almost two years sober thank you and and it feels great like I feel so stoked to be able to talk about these things and to know that I'm good like and I think there are so many times in my career where I'd wanted to talk about it but I knew I didn't have a grip on it and and the thing is like I this is something I do I work on every day I choose myself every moment of every day because I have to because I want to be here and I want to live a full life yeah um but when I decided to get sober at 32 I was like okay we have some options I can keep doing what I've been doing for the last 15 years um there's the risk of something really bad happening or we can get sober and we can actually do it because I would always kind of half-ass do it yeah and I truly there's no other way to say it other than it was like a spiritual intervention like I literally felt the presence of God like actually telling me we're not you don't have another chance like I truly felt it in my bones that like this is it yeah what are we gonna do with it and I remember I was flying back from Austin after a whirlwind New Year's Eve trip like shaking I was eating a gross ham sandwich like trying to stick food in my stomach because I hadn't eaten in like two days.

42:04I have my dog in my lap. I was like, okay, we're going to do it. We're going to do this. And then I ended up, the week I got sober, I actually got COVID too. And I think without that, I would have made excuses. I think because I was forced to stay home. I was forced to call these certain people, connect with certain people, put myself in these rooms and groups of people that truly saved my life. I think without having COVID, I'm, I might not have gotten sober or committed to it and I I don't know man like I feel so strong in my path right now and I I don't know every day is changes like I I was just traveling internationally and like air airports and airplanes are are always make me a little edgy I'm like because that's where I loved to drink put me in a lounge put me right right I was like I'm 30 ,000 feet away from everyone that drives me crazy yeah you know so so it's it's really just like okay being gentle with myself and really having a plan of okay I know I'm gonna be on a couple planes coming up how are we gonna take care of myself yeah being sober is 100 % the best thing I've ever done for myself it does not mean that it's easy I think I have talked about it publicly and I think it's been portrayed as like life is great life is amazing has it made my life better 100 million percent but it's deeply uncomfortable and is deeply painful but it is so worth it yeah dude yeah that's what I think is you're so right it's like when you come out and say like I'm sober everyone's like oh my god she has it together yeah like she's great and you're like this is something that you have to wake up every day and make the choice to not have a drink to not have a drink and it's and it's made me realize like how much I was escaping in other ways too like your girl will do anything to avoid an uncomfortable feeling uh-huh like let's go I'm on Amazon like I do need this new blender I already have 10 blender you know what I'm saying spend money men like I have avoided my shit for a long time by being with people I didn't really want to be with just like complete avoidance can we talk about that for a minute because something that really hit me and I oh this is like so dark but I remember this is I've never loved you more okay so I don't know if I've ever said this on the podcast but I was in this relationship where I was in it for the wrong reasons it was so off like just in ways like emotionally abusive and just like really not healthy and I was staying for the wrong reasons but I remember there would be nights that I knew he would want to have sex and I did not want to have sex with him yeah so before he would come home i would go into the kitchen and take shots by myself and i would drink so that i could have sex with him yeah and what's so crazy in that moment is like i knew like what the fuck am i doing like why am i hiding quickly drinking then going and brushing my teeth so he doesn't know so that i'm fucked up so that i can have sex with this person like yeah so fucking sad but I'm and I'm thinking about you and I'm like can you talk to me a little bit about like this sexual aspect of being drunk or being on drugs while you're drunk and like being in this situation which is like pretty unsafe like yeah what sexual situations did you get yourself into that like you'd wake up and be like oh my god I and this is definitely you know I've talked about my sobriety story a little but I've never talked about um that element of it and I think it's a really important thing to talk about because I think a lot of people can relate to that whether you're an alcoholic or not totally um and also like being sober and dating and being sexual was like a whole new thing I had to learn because a lot of my most of my relationships and my the people I had slept with like I was always fucked up I and I felt so deeply uncomfortable in my body and in my skin and whether you struggle or not when you drink you automatically feel a little bit sexier you're like I look amazing like I'm ready at least I would have like a 10 minute window where I was like we've got it together and then the dark thoughts would roll in but I mean there's definitely been I think that's where some of my shame still lies is in the people I've allowed to the people I've allowed myself to be with and I know for certain I've potentially I don't even know if I want to say that I actually know I maybe I've been taken advantage of not to say that these people no I'm not making excuses for people I've been taken an advantage of uh yes I was the person drinking but I there are certain things I don't quite remember um but then it's also yeah so I've slept with people I regret sleeping with of course you know yeah but I also think like in the relationships I was in um I really relate to what you're saying about like needing to drink to be physical and for me it wasn't like I wasn't attracted to these men I I was but I was so uncomfortable with myself or their perception of me that it was easier to be in a different state of mind when being physical I have always I've always considered myself a sexual person and I always had shame about that until recently I think that I think it's so strange to me that we're given the gift of sex like it's a beautiful what like what do you mean it's like yeah most amazing in the world yeah and we obviously live in a society that shames us for that when ultimately that's kind of the thing that connects us all right but I think something that is difficult when you and I know you're like still working on like unpacking everything that happen but and that's I'm like oh like we need we do as women especially need to get better of like you sitting here and just not being able to fully say and then like yeah you were taken advantage of yeah it's so interesting how my brain will try to make excuses for for things and

49:16is it right or wrong I don't I don't know but it happened and I think basically what I'm trying to say is like I don't think these people are bad people

49:33it's just so I'm I'm only pausing because I've actually never talked about this element of it before yeah and not even really with my therapist this is just like a new top this is like a new yeah remember I was talking about the trunk and like the emotional I think wow we'll be doing a lot of journaling tonight Alex no it's good it's good I think I appreciate you talking about it as women and as men like there is so much shame attached to the type of people we've been with were we fucked up like what actually did happen was it my fault should I have actually you know god we just live in a world where we're just like all traumatized people traumatizing people it's well what I appreciate about you is like there's a level of like survival you have to get to where you're like you have to move on you have to look back at a point of your life and be like whoa I'm so happy I'm like not doing those certain things to myself anymore but then there's also a moment where you have to be like our body remembers things have you read that book the body keeps the score I haven't read it but it's fucking crazy I'm sure there are moments I have had them in my 20s where I woke up and this is so sad I remember waking up and being like did I have sex last night and actually physically like trying to like feel in my vagina like did I have sex i know i i have i can't even tell you i can't even tell you how many times i've been like huh and then i'd make excuses i'd be like well i've kind of always wanted to sleep with him so i guess it's okay or or you know just like making excuses or but also like i for so much of my life I found I would fill this like empty well within myself with validation from men so I I was like well if I if I'm if I sleep with them like I get this validation and and then I'm okay and then I feel worthy for a week and then I'm then I need to do it again and I don't know it was just a habit I picked up very very early on of like if I got the attention from men I I was okay to show up in the world yeah even I think something that's really relatable I bet a lot of people are going to connect with also is like you talked about how when you would drink you would have this you would become the person you thought you wanted to be you're outgoing you're loud I can be sassy I can fuck like I can be hot like you can do all these things and I I know people in my life that are like I'm introverted and I'm a little anxious or I'm shy and having a couple drinks like I think brings me out of my shell and I'm able but it's like then there's that line where it's like you shouldn't need anything like that is a substance like that to make you feel like you can be yourself because we're not ourselves when we're drinking right but then sexually also all of us are gonna feel way more free having sex if we're fucked up on something yeah but it's like you don't actually know and you don't feel in tune with your fucking body i'm even willing to say that sex drunk is not enjoyable at all sex with strangers is not enjoyable

53:04point blank yeah it's just the truth maybe and that's just my experience but and that's why like the last two years of I mean I was like celibate for a lot of it but right but but I think like feeling so comfortable in my skin and like learning to love my body in new ways like being sexual like it's still a little uncomfortable yeah for me I'm learning how to be really present and um you know and choosing the people I want to be intimate with and And not everyone deserves to touch your body, you know? Facts. Facts. And like you can't make that decision as easily when you are fucked up. No, I'm like everyone can touch your body.

53:50They're like, let's go. Girl, guy, all, let's go. I just appreciate you going there with me and us unpacking the themes of just being like, oh, that's interesting. Next. Well, I mean, that's a testament to you. We're getting there. at what you do and you really create with all of your guests like you know the right questions to ask but you do it all with like a very well because it's like it's your life like when people are like so talk to me about your fucking drinking problem you're like okay so here you're a slut right literally like who'd you fuck whore you're like oh my god people have said shit to me about like craziest shit i'm like that's rude thank you yeah um okay no this is great okay relationships your relationships yeah i had many relationships i i don't think i i've had not had a relationship really since i've been sober i dated but i but throughout all the you know teenager to to now like my last long-term committed relationship was like six years ago and it ended i mean we were very we were not compatible with each other at all but um it ended because of my behavior and like a lack of him not really understanding and not knowing how to be there for me we're now him and I are now friends and it's it's nice to god it's the best feeling to like reconnect with people in a different place in your life and I'm finding that's happening a lot to me lately like people I've had embarrassing or shameful experiences with like I've run into them on the street there was someone I ran into in Vancouver on the street and it was someone something happened and I didn't really remember what had happened it was a night and I had always wanted to apologize and I randomly ran into him in Vancouver and not only did I get to apologize he was like Lucy nothing happened so I had like built so in my life I've like built these things up in my head all I say all that because it's just interesting the universe is like we're gonna give you an opportunity to hold yourself accountable and apologize and it's like the best thing to be clear-eyed and feeling good and and to get to reconnect with people when you were in these type of relationships did a lot of your partners also drank heavily or were you hiding it so my very first boyfriend ever that I had for three and a half years when I was a teenager

56:20I remember him telling me I had a drinking problem my boyfriend after that and he wasn't really a drinker my next boyfriend after that he also was like you this is worrisome I'm like I'm breaking up with you bye me problems you're the problem you're the problem bye babe cut two you were right You were right. Fuck. My boyfriend after that, God, we were, it was the most passionate relationship of my life and the most toxic. He was a drug addict. He was an alcoholic. I learned habits from him. We were a perfect storm. But there was also a lot of love there. That was also a deeply scary time in my life.

57:10I was like, ooh. Can you share some of those habits? Day drinking. drinking a bottle of wine before bed every night he uh at that point I had never done a drug and that was like when I was like oh I kind of like how that feels um yeah it was a lot of just self-neglect and it was like the day drinking thing that was when I was like oh you can drink the day after huh I never really thought about that but but also you know those types of relationships are the most exciting like the most passionate like whoa like I this person I I think I'm like if I were ever to be in a room with him now it's still one of those people where I would be so I'm equal parts terrified of him and attract like deeply attracted to him so crazy I had one of those where it was like he was definitely into drugs and there's like a thrill element of like Like the instability.

58:14Like this person does not have their shit together. And it's like every day is fucking different. And it's this like exciting rush. And it's also what you don't realize is it's like uncomfortable fear that like you are thinking is like attraction. But you're also like this is you're my body telling me like I shouldn't be doing this. Yeah. And it's exactly that. Like my nervous system the whole time I was with him was like I did not regulate my nervous system for a full year. but I also loved that because I told you I loved chaos

59:04you don't have to answer this but I'm just thinking again because we're having we're kind of tying things like when you look at your life you you know I think sometimes in a positive way you can be like oh that helps it make more sense but like a lot of how we are is because of our family like does anyone in your family struggle with alcohol also okay okay yeah I mean it's it's I think it's just helpful to say because sometimes people feel really fucking alone and it's like girl you're not alone this isn't also I don't know if it helps to be like it's not your fault this is like a genetic thing that like yeah that's yeah life but it's also interesting to me that you know my sister doesn't struggle with alcohol but we grew up in the same home obviously our lives are very different but it's just interesting how people latch on to something and I think if I would have found cocaine at 16 that would have been my thing but alcohol well that was your thing that was my my bestie for a long time when you said that you went to rehab when you got back talk to me about like reintegrating after rehab and then like when did you have another drink laughing because i so before i went into rehab i was talking to this guy that i was obsessed with i stayed in rehab i got out the day i got home he flew in to see me I picked him up and he asked me to stop at a liquor store for him no and I remember him getting a bottle of Jack Daniels and mind you I still didn't drink for like three months after that so I was like what talk about not integrating right talk about I just had this like spiritual amazing experience and this guy who that was that that in itself is was my life for so long putting everyone else on a pedestal for so long I'm like why am I taking this guy kissing him and he tastes like jack daniels just but i'm just laughing because that was my first memory of getting out of rehab solid yeah damn yeah crazy and then when did you relapse three months after yeah it was always typically that it was like three months after i went to vegas for a of course i relapsed relapsed in vegas um for a award show because what would happen was i'd I'd be sober for a long time and think, you know what, I think I have a really good grip on my alcoholism now.

1:01:35And I think if I just have rosé, I think I'm going to be fine. And you know what, I'm going to have a rosé and a water. And then maybe I'll have like a little Adderall just like bring me back down. And like the one thing about like alcoholics that I love is like the rules that we, you know only beer only wine only on weekends only every other week um but yeah I'd get stuck in the cycle of I'd be sober for a month or two and then I'd relapse then a week then I'd relapse and I was like a chronic relapser yeah yeah when you talked about that like new year's moment when you got on the plane was there something that happened that was like rock bottom I mean in hindsight like a lot of things that happened in my life would have been labeled as worse but I think I was at a point in my life for this new year's trip where I knew uh I knew my drinking career was coming to an end and I almost I think subconsciously I knew that this new year's was gonna be the last hurrah and it certainly was but I think it was so scary to start drinking one night to wake up

1:02:57um like a day and a half later and have so much blank memory and be like and I remember asking my friend I was like what are we doing tonight for New Year's Eve and he was like it's the first and I was like what do you mean I was like what do you mean what do you mean there's a whole day of my life I don't remember and like blacking out was a very normal thing for me here and there whatever but I'll never I still like I have a physical reaction to hearing him say it was the first and I was just like this can't be my life this can't be my life I refuse to let this be my life anymore and I was so sad and like it was just more like and nothing really you know I don't even know if I left the hotel room like nothing technically bad happened but it was just that feeling of how did I get here I have everything I could ever want and I'm gonna blow it all and it's a miracle that I didn't yeah I think I did I fucked up friendships I fucked up relationships I hurt my family I you know I did lose out on career opportunities but like i talk about guardian angels like talk about knowing i'm supposed to be here yeah and so you know i so whatever happened in austin like something resonated it was this feeling of like maybe let's do maybe let's try it a different way uh and i did i'm so proud i'm so proud that i did that um yeah and I and I often don't sit back and relish in the like whoa babe like you did it you did it I thank you for sharing that I literally got chills because it's like we we as humans are just judgmental like we either compare ourselves but like or we'll judge people because it's actually an insecurity of ours or we'll judge because we don't understand something I appreciate you sharing all this because it's so fucking hard to talk about something that you have any amount of shame over and also something that like you've as much as maybe people in your life have talked to you about it or told you or you've broken up with boyfriends about it like it's on you like it's and and also you've dealt with this alone so it's like you were going through this alone because when you woke up you were alone sure even if there was a body next to you that you're like what are you doing here like you're alone and so it's on you to find your way out of it that's fucking hard but that is the key to life is like the second you start taking accountability of I'll just say it from my point of view the second I was like okay why am I in this weird fucking hotel room a day and a half later why am I sad why am I angry it's I have to take accountability of my life yep no one else is gonna save me and I can't keep blaming other people for my own shit it doesn't mean people can't help me but ultimately all you have is yourself like yeah You have to fight and advocate for yourself.

1:06:33I just love that we're talking about that. It's like even if people are listening and it's like it's not alcohol. It's just like your life, whether you're unhappy, wherever the fuck you are, if you're unhappy about something like it really is. It sounds so fucking simple, but it's hard not to look around and try to blame others or blame your circumstances. It's like there is something so powerful about you sitting on that plane ride and just being like, yeah, it's got to end. It's got to end. Yeah, it's got to change. Yeah. And I think that's fucking amazing that you're sitting here today and you clearly now are like, again, like we said, it's not easy.

1:07:07It's never going to be easy. No, but life is not easy and it's not supposed to be easy. That is what we signed up for as human beings. Being a human is hard. It's hard to navigate. Yeah. We all numb out in some way. We all try to escape. But there's something beautiful about not. What if we didn't? What if we didn't? What if we were just uncomfortable? We'll get through it. can you talk to me about obviously like recovery is not linear like it's an ongoing process in these past two years trying essentially like you're finding a new version of yourself because for so long like you were going off of like certain habits and routines and a lifestyle and now it's all different can you talk to me about like how it's been things that you've struggled with things that you're like loving about yourself yeah I mean certainly not linear and there is no right or wrong way to heal um you know there's so much advice out there there's so much on the internet of like how to heal and and I think that's great and I think that's when the internet is really beautiful but I think ultimately like the only person that's gonna know what feels good in your body and your mind is yourself so for me it's like I've kind of had to like block out a lot of the noise and really get quiet with myself and like really figure out what actually makes me feel good because I had to have a moment where I was like does my career make me feel good luckily it does luckily because god that would have been a shit show it's like I'm sober and I'm changing careers I'm yeah who knows what would I have done what would I have done but I you know just like yeah getting crystal clear on like the friendship for me it's like when you heal you expect other people to heal with you but like you're on a different path you're on a different journey and so certain things don't fit your life anymore yeah and so obviously like the places I was going and day to day that shifted a little um but people won't prepare you that like some friendships don't won't be the same that's the hardest thing is like we talk about romantic breakups all the time but like friendship breakups are hard and so I've had to deal with that a little bit and um family dynamics have shifted boundaries girl boundaries boundaries you know I was talking about being at peace and how that felt uncomfortable that's really what a lot of what my life has looked like it's like okay am i am i bored or is this just really nice and like being okay in stillness and not needing to fill my days with stuff just to avoid because what i what i found when i was newly sober was okay i'm gonna work out three times a day i'm gonna you know read a book i'm going to whatever it's like well why am i filling my days with all these things what if I just didn't right what if I just didn't and so it's like I'm in this interesting place now where my relationship to my body and to food and to exercise has is like the next thing for me to work on I think just like being really gentle with all of that I think that not to like go back all into this but I think the eating disorder fueled the alcoholism and they kind of fueled each other and so like now that i'm sober it's like okay now let's like really unpack yeah this

1:11:00you know my life is very simple i it it they're like okay i'm just a simple girl gal from tennessee but you know no but what i mean by that is i find joy in simple moments i want to simplify my life i'm trying to simplify my life my circle is small um i spend a lot of time with my dogs i am on this whole this will be for when i come back for part two of the podcast we'll talk about spirituality because I do want to say that the spirituality element is what keeps me going. And it's brought a lot of clarity to my life of like, oh, but why am I really here? What is my purpose? How can I help leave the world a better place?

1:11:51So it's like my priorities have really shifted into broader scale, I guess. And I think that that was maybe why I was also drinking is because I felt like I didn't have a purpose. Yeah. I love that you just said um you know like it's okay like is it boredom or is it just like you're just be still and I feel like there's so many people that can relate to that moment where you're like trying so hard to just keep moving and keep going and keep doing and going here here here here and it's like when you're uncomfortable in the silence and being alone with yourself that's the first indicator you got shit to work on shit to work on because there's nothing better than when you are like so super cozy with yourself and you actually would a hundred times over choose yourself to be alone and like not go out and not right literally the best i'm at the point now where i you know i'm single i don't know when this is airing but as of now i'm single and i have to i have to get a boyfriend in the next two weeks um i don't know should we have a dating show and uh but but my point in saying all that was like i love my alone time i love my life i love my schedule but i also do you know i do want a partner and i want a family and um and i do have to put myself outside of my comfort zone because it is it does feel so cozy and safe in this like little world i built for myself but he ain't gonna come knocking on my on my front door maybe he will I was about to say I love how you're like when is this coming out I'm like are you do you have someone in mind I'm like is he I do have someone in mind but but but we're not dating okay you've gone on dates we're supposed to we'll see we'll see and now that I've said it out loud it's happening well I don't know we'll see so you've texted a little okay and you're gonna potentially go this is me putting expectations on something no this is what I do all the time I'm like okay how is he gonna be as a dad like it's like no just like calm down but this is my extremist brain yeah you know I get it but I also think that I'm at the point now like I don't want to casually date I'm looking for something specific and not everyone is looking for that I don't know we're just trying to manifest that into my life do you have any like dating rules for yourself that you're like this has to be like is there anything on the list you're like this is like Don't be a raging alcoholic.

1:14:17You're like, don't. Don't. But also, I do love an edge. No. No, no, no, no, no. I don't have any, like, don'ts. But I think it's more just like this place I'm at in my life, where I'm at, the woman I've become. It's not for everyone, and I know that. But it is for some people. And so it's more just like being completely in alignment with someone emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually. It's tricky. It's very tricky to navigate. And I'm not willing to alter anything. I will, you know, compromise is a very different thing. But I think we're not settling anymore. We're not settling. No. I made a song out of it.

1:15:02We're not settling. And pray. Go away. Because we're not going to settle. okay we don't need an album um what I love about what you just said though is like how great you're now on a place in your life where you are so clear on the things that you need for yourself and so if someone comes in you're gonna be able to be like check check oh I can compromise I know I know I know immediately yeah usually but before you probably and as we all go through that where you're like you almost become the partner that walks in the door you become the guy that's the drug addict you're like oh I guess I'll just like yeah you when we go we all go through that where we're so much more like we are so much more susceptible to just becoming that relationship being independent of like this is what I bring can you meet me here also and people talk about this all the time a lot of people are filling a void with the person they choose or the relationship they're in because it's a lot of people settling or a lot of people uh trying to figure out their shit within a relationship and that's not saying you can't you can grow as a couple yeah but I think I'm so grateful that I now feel more whole and can enter into a partnership now because now I know how to treat people because I know how to treat myself I can show up for someone I can respect someone I'm ready to love you know and I don't and I wasn't always that way right so do you have a type yes physically no although my friends would be like you love tall dark and handsome I love a musician bad boys Lucy but I don't know if that's a lifestyle that's good for me I don't know but I but there's something about musically inclined men that really get my heart rate I get it just turn on Spotify and listen to a song like I feel like that girl the touring and the drinking and the it's a lot it's a lot it's a lot it's a lot but I do think I would love to end up with a creative of some sort I'm I don't really set rules for like I'm not saying oh he has to be in the industry or he has to not be in the industry I think like having that level of understanding it would be nice to be with someone who gets it yeah um but type I'm more of a vibe gal I need I have a very like a specific sense of humor not needing to be in the spotlight but quick I like I like going deep with people if you can keep up with me in conversations like that's sexy awareness is the like I will drop my panties for that immediately like a self-aware king I you know I just I've been dating for the first time in my life and a lot of it is like these people are not asking me questions why am I the only one asking questions right I was talking to someone about this the other day that and they were like the dates I've gone on I'm getting the point where I'm like I'm just gonna stop I've been asking you questions the whole time not in like a weird interrogative way but like I'm asking you questions being respectful are you curious about me yeah do you even remember my last name yeah like where are we at I think it's a universal thing and men I love you I do but I think it's not I'm always taken aback when when someone asks me a question and not only that a good question I agree that to me I'm like oh to feel seen and heard have you had any bad dates recently I've never had any nightmare dates ever but I definitely had one recently where

1:18:50I just knew immediately I was like oh no no wait why why why because it felt like a rehearsed date oh it felt like he was saying things that I think I had verbatim said in an interview before and I'm like okay on one level that's sweet like he did his research but also he wasn't in my industry and I always feel a little weird when it's someone not in my industry because like I don't know people's motives oh my favorite thing though is I'm on a specific dating app and um when you're on this dating app you can click on someone's name and you know you go to their Instagram you know who they are if you connect with someone you're gonna obviously google who they are of course but this has happened a few times where guys act like they don't know what I do for a living or who I am and I'm like okay you might not have seen my work but I don't believe that you connected with me and haven't googled me it's you're asking me what I do for a living like just stop that's the crazy am I crazy because I'm like this is really this is very bizarre you're not crazy because what's crazy is social media everyone has it at this point I'm like I know what your mom's sister's dog is doing right now let's keep it real yeah and even if you're not going to bring that up you're not going to pretend you don't know what the dude does like it's so silly but I think it's like a way of them being like I don't care what you do I'm a normal guy who wants you for all the right reasons I'm like yeah but that is showing me that you want me for all the wrong reasons right if you're being a phony right like imagine how much harder it is for the guy to be like oh I respect your career I respect your career this is so cool like obviously I don't know if I've watched everything you're in like what was your favorite project like yes that was like when I went on a guy in New York City I went on a date and he was like um what do you do for a living and I was like this is what well you're engaged no but this was like right before I got success yes and I was like oh like I have a podcast and like you're like the number one most successful and at the time he followed Dave Portnoy he followed Barstool he felt like I'm like you know you know.

1:20:50Thumbs down dude. And I'm like oh I have a podcast. He's like oh like what do you talk about? And I'm like. Meanwhile you go look at his search history as he's listed at every episode. I just yeah. No I agree. I think that in this dating world with social media it's better to be up front. You don't have to say like oh yeah like and go too deep of what you've stalked but there's a level of like let's keep it fucking real. Let's be transparent. Because then if not you're like this is what are you hiding yeah exactly okay if your fans and my fans can take one thing from this interview what do you want them to take from this okay where do we begin okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay okay uh one thing yeah that's a lot okay i just think Like for me, I didn't really have any women, at least that I had found that were going through similar experiences.

1:21:49And I know that a lot of the things we talked about today were heavy, heavy hitters and make a lot of people uncomfortable. Like a lot of people will not and do not want to talk to me about my sobriety or sexual encounters or trauma or whatever. but I guess like the one thing is I just if anyone's listening like just know that there's nothing to be afraid of there's nothing to be ashamed of um and you're just you're not alone I think like you and I have both mentioned many times during this interview that we've felt alone or misunderstood um and I think it's just always nice to know that very simply you are not yeah you are not and i think that i'll end it with this i i watch very niche documentaries and i read very weird books and just like i'll find something like the other day i was looking up crop circles but the other day i was i was googling fingerprints i was like how fucking amazing is it that there are no two fingerprints ever in the history of ever that are like if that doesn't tell you everything right there there is only one you there is only ever supposed to be one of you and that is so fucking cool to me look at your finger like yeah it's it's and so that to me just like wraps up what I'm trying to say is that life is tricky baby but but but you're not alone and things might not make sense but they will eventually because I felt that for so much of my life where I'm like what is the fuck is happening and things eventually find their place you do be gentle with yourself be kind please be kind to yourself god I cannot thank you enough for coming on because like you said I think it's so important to have conversations that may make people uncomfortable because it's not what we're saying that should make them uncomfortable it's because in some way we've been raised to think like showing any weakness and talking about things that you've gone through is a sign of weakness and it's completely the opposite you're so fucking strong for sitting here knowing millions of people are going to listen to this and watch you talking about something that so many people will relate to and I think it's just the beginning of people actually realizing like damn if she can just talk about this and overcome this and also recognize like it's a struggle it's okay if you're relapsing if you're like it's all it is all gonna happen but by talking about shit that's the most powerful thing and the most beautiful thing is and also thank you for this was so fun yeah and you just really made me feel safe and it was very easy to open up about these things um because I don't always share this with everyone and um and I do think it is maybe a part of my journey now to talk about these things and and I And I hope it resonates or that something I've said that might wake something up inside someone.