Olivia Wilde: Dating, Double Standards & Dealing with Scrutiny

35:55and the ratings would spike. And for that show, it was like an event. It was an event. And it was like the most tame kiss you had. It's literally just like, it's not even like a full make out. No, it's like a greeting. It was so, and I think that, I think it had a lot to do with the fact that her character had been kind of created as this like idealized, like gorgeous, ingenue, sweet, pure thing. And the idea of queerness at the time was still relegated to like the quirky, weirdo, weird kids. And it was not mainstream girls. It was not that girl. It was never the the popular pretty it was and that I think the idea that this girl might be figuring out her sexuality that was what people were really like oh my god and there were a lot of young people who saw that and started to ask themselves questions and have conversations with their parents and that's what I hear to this day it was incredible which is amazing I love also how you went from one iconic role to another 13 on house i know i'm like listen i have one skill and one skill only i i that was another show that was big when i joined it i'm really good like hopping on board yeah this is fun i feel like such a fuck it attitude like yeah just defiant um and both of those characters were very very i i don't know it just memorable for you as a character you really brought them to life you did a great job i think i aspired to be them i think that that kind of badass attitude was probably what i what i wanted so i got to like cosplay as them okay quick rapid fire questions about the ocn house yes what is one medical term you remember from the house synesthesia oh my god okay okay which cast was more intimidating to join the oc yeah oh boy fair wait why they were just cool kids yeah yeah and they were they they were they knew how to take it in stride they i i i was we would watch them on red carpets and be like what do we do how does it work they were just cool they it was like suddenly being seated at the table with the most popular kids in the cafeteria and you're like oh thanks for letting me sit here guys.

38:34That's so fair. You were in your late teens and early 20s when you were filming both the shows. Did you have a crush on anyone on either set? Yeah, I'm sure. Wait. Well, oh God, I mean, how could you not have a crush on Hugh Laurie? I just, I love him. He was so dreamy and so smart and so warm and taught me so much. And he's extremely crush-worthy. It's good. Okay. Which character did you relate to more alex or 13 probably 13 because she was more of um she like alex was way cooler than me i was not that i mean the idea like i i the idea of being someone who uh i think that character was like she like lived on her own in a beach house and ran a bar and like knew everything about cool indie music and 13 was like kind of like a like a little more of a nerd who was like really determined to do her job and I mean I think I I related to her more.

39:40Fair. Okay better kisser Misha Barton, Adam Brody. Misha was a great kisser. I remember she had really pretty lips she had the most beautiful she was perfect she's perfect yeah her she has the most extraordinary face the two of you on camera together oh but i i did not i know i had extreme imposter syndrome with that i was like but she's such a pretty pretty doll you guys were amazing together okay should we bring back alex's bump it hairstyle oh my god which ripped from gwen stefani with the purple streak with my my little pony rainbow bright though psychotic yeah which shows need a reboot would you do it ever oh my god wouldn't that be so fun uh the like geriatric version of the oc would be really funny you're the mom now you're still at the bar still there and now it's just like a little sad it's like oh she's still working in the bar.

40:39We're still waiting. One day. One day.

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43:08Those flavors together, I couldn't be happier. I'm going to watch my favorite TV shows and I'm going to be eating that. Boom, done. Take your sweet time. That's Daz, available at retailers nationwide. Not surprisingly, our society, you know, it's a classic where I feel like your looks became a huge topic of conversation in your career. And it seemed like your beauty was treated as one of the most important things to talk about. Do you remember noticing that shift or did it always feel like that? It's so funny because it's definitely the same for every woman in this business, right? And I think I really didn't feel like I fit normal beauty standards for most of my life.

44:04So there was a, it was a really interesting thing to suddenly feel like I was suddenly hitting those standards. And it was like, wait, did the standards must have all just changed because now they fit me? Like, this is so crazy that this used to exist because now it's like, what in the fuck? But when they had the ranked Maxim 100 list, hottest 100, and I was number one. And I remember my publicist called me and said, you're number one. Do you want to accept it? Because you can, like, say no, I guess. if you accept it, then they'll do this cover shoot and they'll do a piece about it. And I remember being like, I understand that this is the most fucked up thing in the world, but the part of me that felt like the girl who didn't fit in from high school, the girl who never felt like I fit those standards, who felt awkward and wrong in every way, I know that part of me was like, really?

45:06Like, do you want me? I fit it now? And it took me many years to understand And to unravel that, it's a dangerous thing to suddenly be told like, now you are good and we want you and now your value. You are literally being ranked and your value is entirely dependent on our fickle, subjective definition of beauty. Crazy. It is so interesting. I guess that yeah that must have been the one because I feel like I remember like you got like most beautiful woman in the world or maybe that was another one you won. It was just a crazy thing and it was like the standards change and you just happened to fit that and I wonder if that would have existed if social media had been a thing if that would have even been able to exist.

46:00I don't know I guess it exists in different ways now but I just remember being like it's just so crazy. when do you think the fixation on your appearance started to impact the way that you viewed yourself because at first you're like it was kind of great yeah and then yeah well then it's like it's easier if you never feel like you have it and you don't expect it you're not trying to maintain it but once you've been told that you like ding ding ding you made it we think you're pretty now and it's like oh great and then it's like and how about now and now and then inevitably Anytime someone uses a superlative to describe you like you're the hottest, there's going to be a whole bunch of people who are like, I don't think so.

46:43I think you're the ugliest. And then that's the part of you that that I mean, that's the thing that the inner part of you actually is going to is going to agree with because you're going to see, I'm not the prettiest. I'm the ugliest and I knew it and they see it. And now I have to like. Run from that. And I mean, God, I think about actresses in there. I mean, it's women. It's not just actresses, but it's just highlighted here that the desperation to maintain that. And you can't. And it's just exhausting. It is because it's all in the hands of the eyes of the beholder. So like you said, like the beauty industry and the way that it's so constantly is changing and the standards for women, like the conventionally attractive man has never shifted.

47:37It has always been the same standard. True. And for us, it's like, it's either the heroin chic thin or the like the curvier or this. And it's like the fact that a body type goes in and out of a fad and it's like a phase. You're like, how is how is a body type blowing my beauty? you're so right that for men it's always been like uh it's always been that like paul newman steve mcqueen like hot like there's that kind of vibe but then for women at the same time we went from like audrey hepburn marilyn monroe and then even the difference between like that like like cindy crawford kate moss and then like giselle and it's just like no now we want boobs now we don't want boobs now we want eyebrows we don't want eyebrows now we want skinny no we hate skinny and you're like oh okay how i can change don't worry just give me a minute and it's fucking it's exhausting i think something you've talked about before the limitations about being reduced to your appearance and then there's also the side where you're like but there is beauty can be a power and so you're kind of dancing on this tightrope of like Like, do you lean in?

48:50Do you not lean in? Right. Do you repel it? And when are you being objectified? When is it self-objectification that's somehow empowering? Like, those lines are blurry. Do you feel like you've ever used your beauty to your advantage? A hundred percent. I mean, I think that's what – I guess I could have, you know, at 21 or whatever I was, when the maximum thing, I could have been like, I refuse. No. On a matter of principle, no thank you. I was like, great. And guess what? But I got roles upon roles from that. It led to casting. It's crazy that it put me in the, at least put me in the room to get roles for sure.

49:31And I think then you have to take responsibility for your own participation in that self-objectification. It's like, I put myself here. You can't be like, why is everyone looking at me? It's like you. Right. But here we are. Here we are. Right. And I think, yeah, that understanding of really keeping an eye on how much you are participating and understanding you have control over that. You can disengage when you choose, but understand that you are the one putting yourself in it. Speaking of when you had said, you know, maintaining it. And as women, as we get older, we're like, oh, my God, oh, my God, I need to stay that same Maxim girl that I was.

50:13Oh, God. 2026. Oh, boy. this year you go on a red carpet olivia i'm so happy you're bringing this up olivia i feel like i opened my phone that morning and was like jump scare no i'm like why am i seeing olivia wilde all over my page right now an actual dead body i looked like did you ever watch are you too young for um tales from the crypt yes but no okay oh my god somebody out there will know what I mean there was like a like a little a dead sarcophagus man that I looked like a shrunken I don't even know how to describe it it was absolutely insane and I could not believe I was like but here's the thing I was like oh you know I was at a small regional film festival I was in San Francisco showing the film so happy um and then uh that like it's a tiny little red carpet It was a tiny slip of a carpet, just basically like a mat.

51:13We did the thing. And then I saw that picture. And I was like, all right, but it probably won't. That probably won't go very far. That probably won't. No one's going to see this. No one cares about me. No one cares about, oh. And then suddenly it was fucking everywhere. And I was like, oh, my God. Because all of us have had this situation where, like, you take a bad picture. your friends you're all hanging out in bed picture and your friends send photos to like the group chat and you're like okay well that one guys you can't kill it you can't kill that one dead we all agree like that one goes nowhere and imagine if then it was in like a hundred million people's phones and you're like oh no but that is not how I actually look I I laughed so hard I mean the thing that is great about having really good friends is that they are the ones to laugh the hardest like I guarantee anything that has been a joke that's been made about me my friends have made it first in a much funnier way because it's that's the important thing and yeah we had to laugh I have to say and I get what you're saying you're like okay it wasn't the best but having been on carpets myself and prior to engaging in this industry I didn't understand it I will see some things of myself and be like that's not me that's not me no that's not what i love because i have a photo from a different angle oh yeah and that's just not so i actually i will not i don't accept that and so i looked at that photo and i was in no way people like we're so worried for her she's worried she's she's she's definitely sick she's dying people were diagnosing me with like like Graves' disease.

52:59And I was like, wow. Megyn Kelly did an entire segment about how much I looked dead. I was like, all right, bitch. You'll do anything to not talk about eliminating the Equal Rights Amendment or the fucking Voting Rights Act. But I was really like, I was like, this is undeniably hilarious. It's insane. But it's insane. and I was in New York. I flew to New York from there and I was hanging out with my brother and we were drinking a bottle of wine and I was like, oh man, did you see this thing? And he was like, no, what? And I was like, look at this thing. And I showed him and he did a full spit take that he was like, oh, look at him.

53:45He was like, you look insane. And I was like, people are saying I look dead. He's like, you do. What is happening? And so he took this video of me because he was just laughing at me. And I just ended up posting it probably because I had consumed that entire bottle of wine. And I was like, I'm just, it was just so funny. And I was like, you have to fucking learn to laugh at all this shit because it's not, it's ridiculous. Also, I loved it from your brothers that my brother would do the same thing. Like, explain yourself, bitch. Why do you look dead? Why were you exhumed from the ground? And I'm like sitting here with you right now and I'm like, you look stunning, gorgeous, and you're glowing.

54:29And that was not an – but again, the way the internet. Oh, yeah. It was – everyone had a commentary on the way that you looked that day. It was fucking crazy. It is crazy how we seem to want – like I was there promoting my movie, so excited. I'm there as a director. I'm so proud. it's almost like the internet doesn't know how to talk about a woman it's like there's two levers and they're like men in your life and body and they're like uh oh she's speaking okay which uh boys boys men body body men body and they're like you're like you could also talk about other things I mean that one I'll hand it to them that picture was so fucking crazy like I too would have been like is she okay but you've been in other situations that it's still about your body and you're like I'm here to promote my work and they're like but let's focus on her outfit we can't see that does it feel at all like a betrayal when you know it's mainly women now participating in the conversation I think that it's tough because I wish we didn't do that.

55:42I think about how we do the job of the patriarchy for the men. We really are like, don't worry. We've got it. We'll keep ourselves shackled in this way. We'll take care of it for you guys. You go have fun and we will keep each other down. And I think it's a misplaced probably biological skill tendency. You know, they say like the origin of gossip was actually something in medieval times that was a positive thing. It was something that like women have this power of communicating and sharing and talking about, you know, just being able to communicate with each other. We are verbal in a way that is like a beautiful gift.

56:33It's almost like we've taken this very positive thing and this desire to actually, I don't know, I think at our core really connect with each other and take care of each other. And it's been manipulated to be used as a weapon against us. And I mean, it's fucked up. It's fucked up. But like, you know, it's something that we sometimes just don't even know we're doing. We also expect more from women because I think that at our core, we do understand that we are like we have high standards for ourselves. And so when we when we see a woman doing something we don't approve of. I like to think that it's us being like, come on, girl, like you can be better than that.

57:22But most of the time, it just feels like it's trying to smash each other's faces in. I agree. It almost feels like this like cyclical cycle of we don't feel good about ourselves because another person was sexist toward us. So then we then don't want the other woman to feel like she's winning because if I can't win, then you can't win. And then we literally just keep going in this loop and the men are like laughing and being like, thanks, ladies. Thanks for taking care of that for us. I mean, yes, it's like her people, her people. I get it. But it is it it is wild. it's crazy when it is women being like really the most cruel we also know the ways to be we know the words to use to be the most cruel like we understand the weapon oh we know yeah that's i think it's interesting you talking about you know we have these levers and it's like talk about you know boys or talk about the body and then you have book smart and you were that was 2019 yes and that was your first film that you directed yeah and i remember you had said you you stepped into that feeling like you were finally valued for your ideas.

58:26And so to go from Maxim 100 and being this smoke show and having everyone talk about your looks and you're finally now on a set where it is your brain that is bringing this vision to life. What did that moment when you look back like mean for you personally in your career? Oh, game changer. I mean, it was like, oh, now I think I can stay in this career and stay in it for a longer time and be happy. Because I think there is this, I imagine it's the same for like athletes, that there is this ticking clock. And it is like, well, I better enjoy this because by the time I hit like 35, I'm a geriatric, like I think that for actresses, it's crazy that the more experience you have, the less valuable you are.

59:17And it shouldn't be that way, but it is. As a director, you are more valuable the more experience you have. And I loved the idea of like, oh, I've shifted into something that I can grow old in, which made me really excited as opposed to being anxious about getting older. Oh, I love that. I also think that like it is so much more common for men to take the transition from acting to then going to being a director compared to women. When you were directing the film, did you feel like there was an added pressure though because you are this woman and you've gotten out the mic now and everyone's looking at you?

59:53I think that I felt a pressure that was like, if we pull this off, if I can do this, it will be good for the larger female director community and more of us will get our movies greenlit if this works. so I remember Greta Gerwig had just made Lady Bird and I had watched her make this triumphant transition from acting to directing and and and it was no surprise to anybody because she just was that good and that smart and I was so aware that without Greta doing Lady Bird I was not doing book smart like she walked so I could run and I felt I still feel that with her man she keeps elevating and it's like thank you for continuing she's like blazing the path and there's women for her of course but it allows you to connect with like okay i i want to make this work because i want other women and also other actresses to see this as a possibility to make this pivot i mean i love that also olivia of you just being like oh my god like thank god to her because giving again giving flowers to other women and you not being competitive with greta but you being like fuck yes Greta like okay but you keep going we're all right behind you and we're gonna keep following you because whoever is leading in that category for a woman instead of being like fuck her she made it to the top it's like holy shit she basically just allowed the rope to fall down and now we can all climb up in a more in a faster capacity yeah because there's a woman sitting up there they can know after Greta Gerwig made over a billion dollars with Barbie no one can claim that female directed films are not bankable no one can say now obviously it's also margo producing and starring in that that is a game changer it just diffuses any argument made by any studio shareholder anybody that like should we be investing in female films it's like we sure as fuck should that one made a bill yeah and way more i'm curious about your experience of being behind the camera like what has it taught you about people's willingness to take direction from a woman especially a conventionally attractive woman like maybe if you're directing women or men like it's so interesting I feel like being a director is basically being multilingual you have to be able to speak any language the actor speaks in terms of their emotional language also their training everyone comes at it from such a different place you have to be able to like morph into their language and so you can help them get to where they need to be and i think that And the energy you have as a director and maybe your gender, your appearance, your anything, you can sense how that affects that actor or that crew member who you're also directing in a different way.

1:02:51You can sense how it affects them. So I think that I've been really lucky, for instance, to have a lot of men working for me in crews, let's say in like camera departments, who are so supportive and like just the most supportive and the most encouraging. And I've never had the experience of being like, I have to be more tough because I'm a woman. I have to show them my authority. I've never had that experience. I've heard people talk about that. in my experience, I've gotten really lucky with people. That's amazing. I've never had to like flex to show that I'm like, don't fuck with me. Look how angry I can get.

1:03:29It's not that at all. I think that women are naturally better communicators and leaders. I also have to say, like, wait till you see what an even better boss you are once you're a mom. Let's talk about it. Because it is not only so humbling to become a parent, but it just teaches you multitasking and the ability to remain calm in high stress situations. So taking that to a set as a director or into an office of any kind, I think you are just more effective. I couldn't wait to ask you about that because yes, on one hand, I'm so happy that you've had that experience with men because I don't think men are used to taking direction from women.

1:04:14And then what they probably once they let their guard down and realized to come find out, oh my God, you're way better at communicating, explaining what you want than the other man over there. Like, thank you for being so clear and direct about what you want. Exactly. And then you add on motherhood. And I was reading this quote from you. You were talking about directing and you said, the greatest demonstration of power is the ability to listen and stay calm when everything is falling apart. And I was like, that sounds like amazing parenting advice as well, Olivia. Yes. Talk to me a little bit more about how being a mom has changed you in your career.

1:04:54Oh, oh, it removes any sense of, oh God, like it humbles you in a way that is so helpful because you just understand the second you become a parent that you know nothing and that every day is a discovery of new skills and the thing that you thought you learned yesterday doesn't seem true today and you have to you have to remain so flexible and I think that just has affected the way that I approach work I really do think though the remaining calm under stress is probably the most helpful one because as a parent it becomes immediately clear that you getting stressed out doesn't help anything and that when your kid is having like a DEF CON 1 meltdown in the middle of the street if you were to freak out and scream nothing is gonna it will make it worse and the the more stressed out your kid gets the more calm and in control you have to be have you had though the comments made about like oh well don't you miss your kids like what and you're like yeah but all the men here have kids too oh yeah absolutely absolutely How do you deal with that?

1:06:16You know, it's – again, like I imagine that my mom faced it a lot. And I think that if I know that I'm showing up for my kids in all the important ways, then I feel confident despite any judgment you might subtly feel from, let's say, another parent at school. It's like, oh, I didn't see you at the pop-up. And it's like, no, you didn't. You didn't because I was at work and I was in charge of 250 people pulling off this impossible thing. So I missed the fucking potluck. I'm sorry. I feel like it's okay because you know what? I was there for my kid after the potluck, talking to them about their day, like engaging with them in the way that actually matters.

1:07:05So I think the only time it would probably get to me is if I actually knew deep down that I wasn't showing up the way I needed to. And then I probably would, that would probably break me because it would feel like it was tapping into something real. But I'm a very present mom, even when I'm not able to be consistently present. Also, like, I'm a co-parent. I share custody. And I am really grateful for the opportunity to have this space when I am completely with my kids, completely engaged with them. and they are, you know, the focus in a way that I think that if you, it's an interesting thing. Like once you are sharing custody with someone, it shifts the way you think about parenting.

1:08:06I really value the opportunity to be completely present with them and then to hand them off to a very capable co-parent who is very present with them when he's with them. And then I have this space, which is permission to then go work my fucking ass off. I mean, my life, I feel like I'm like a superhero, not because of my skills, but because of the switching in between identities. Because my version of like going into the phone booth and putting on the suit is like going to work and being like 100 % hardcore available to work 24 seven. But everyone in my life knows that then when I'm with my kids, it's the opposite.

1:08:46And sometimes that's challenging. You have to find the balance. But I actually find this kind of divvying up of responsibility in a way can allow for really amazing parenting because we are always our best with our kids. They get the best of us. It's so fascinating. And I love the way that you talked about that because I do think there's so many people that understandably, if they are separating or going through a divorce, there understandably is a fear of like oh my god how are we going to make sure the kids are taken care of and to hear you talk about it i think to anyone listening that is going through that right now yeah that's so like such a relief oh yeah i really want to tell people you you can be an incredible parent even if you are not with them 100 of the time and you're sharing them with their other parent you it doesn't mean you won't be as good of a parent you might even be a better parent um your movie yeah when literally what penelope cruz is like so in her esther voice she's like you think your kid is happy in this house right now you think she doesn't feel the anxiety and the all of the turmoil that's going on between the two of you she'd probably be happier if you to split up and it you know it's funny because that still feels like a risky thing to say it it is something that for some reason still makes people feel uncomfortable and yet so many people are dealing with this and i really do i i think that there's a lot of people who stay in relationships because they feel this obligation and a lot of the time it has to do with the fact that they feel this extreme shame and guilt for breaking up a family because they assume that that means that the kid will have less love, but that's a choice.

1:10:35And you can create a dynamic that allows that kid to have maximum amount of love. I mean, we are great fucking co-parents. These kids are consistently getting the best of us in a way that when we were together was not possible because we did not work together, but we work really well as separated co-parents. And so when I talk to people who are just in very unhappy situations and staying in it for the kids. I'm like, you're doing no one any favors. Something that you referenced about, you know, when if someone's saying something about you and you're like, oh, wait, that does kind of hit close to home, then it's going to affect you.

1:11:16And I can't help but think about Olivia Wilde as the public persona. Right. And there is so much that is said about you at all times. And when I was preparing for this interview, I noticed that you had pulled back kind of from the public almost for the past four years. You haven't done like long form interviews since promoting your last movie that you directed. And I wanted to know, like, how did taking that step back feel? And was it intentional? Totally intentional. I feel like I felt like I needed to get quiet. I needed to hear myself again. There was so much noise. And it was a very unfamiliar thing to me to be thrust into such chaos.

1:12:03It was not my vibe. That was an unfamiliar thing for me. And I was suddenly in a tornado and I needed to excuse myself from the tornado and just go and get quiet and hear myself and process. process all of the pain and the lessons that I could find in it. I did a shit ton of therapy. I took it as an opportunity to rebuild myself at this point in my life. And I think there is value to that. There is, you know, it sounds dramatic, but say like, you know, rock bottom is just a place to jump off from and rock bottom just sounds very dramatic and I think for me it was like it did feel like a destruction but there is beauty and destruction because you can rebuild and I needed to take a breather and just think like wait a minute what have I learned who am I and how can I how can I accept this this humbling as a chance to kind of spend the rest of my life as a person who has grown from this because I have to have grown from it or else it was for nothing and and I'm a very different person than I was three years ago I think a much better version of myself because I have just taken the time to process it well and you went through a lot like even hearing you say like rock bottom I'm like for sure we can't ever speak for you publicly or like personally but publicly like yo it felt like fucking rock bottom like I remember when don't worry darling came out and you were the most talked about woman in the world Olivia Wilde you and it wasn't just for the movie oh it was it was about it was your relationships your parenting your looks and and overall really like your morality as a woman yeah now that you've had time like you're saying like you're a different person like when you look back like what was that time like when the world was just like fucking bananas it was it was so strange the world was also in a weird place because it was covid so like everything was topsy-turvy weird but but I've never felt more disconnected from the person that people were talking about like I was like what who are they talking about who is that girl it was it was it was also very strange to see complete fiction traded as fact and I I I it's really funny I I had an assistant at the time.

1:14:51It was one of my dear, dear friends. And she was like, man, working for you has really ruined the tabloids for me because now I know it's all fake. And I used to really love it. And now I'm like, but now I know it's not real because there would be like fake sources, fake stories, because once there's a narrative formed, they are just trying to maintain that narrative. And it has nothing to do with the truth anymore. It is just clickbait that they have to maintain. And it doesn't matter what really happened at that point. The truth says, if anything, they're looking for the better story. Yeah. It's like, and you could be like, wait a minute, but there's, here's this evidence to the contrary.

1:15:25They're like, excuse me, be quiet because that does not fit what we've already decided. And I, I understood that. And I will say like that I had a really, there was all this public madness, but my private life was very far from it and very actually kind of like wholesome and sweet. and I was I had a really I had I had a lot of like real joy and love and happiness during that time it was like it was like the tornado was right outside the door and if you were inside you were like it's so nice and then you'd open the door be like it's like a fucking like cow in a tractor would fly by you know what makes I have so much empathy for you because not even like close to it but like I've gone through an experience similar can you talk to me about the frustration though of seeing essentially a smear campaign being created and not like you can't you can't come out and and dispel every single rumor because then you look like a fucking crazy lady and it was so hard because I wanted to be like can I just talk to people can I just go and say like that's not true that's not true and it was like no that won't help and that was really hard I just I was also responsible for, you know, promoting a movie.

1:16:49I was responsible for the movie. I was like, it's not about me. It's about this movie that everyone works so hard to make. And I felt like I was working on behalf of hundreds of people who had worked through COVID to make something really difficult. And I felt frustrated that I couldn't defend myself, but it also felt like, okay, it's not about you. It's not about you. Just get the movie out. and the pummeling that I took was so insanely disproportionate but I think the the thing that I understand like tell me you can get really angry you can be and I'm sure you have felt this you're like the frustration you feel so angry thing is like I get it like shit's hard The world is insane and the escapism of the tabloids is something that is in a way very soothing for people.

1:17:42It's understandable. And that's such a weird thing that we all are capable of. So I felt this like understanding. I also felt like, oh, no wonder people are filling in the gaps with fiction because they don't have all the information. No. And so then they're going to create stories and it is fun to create crazy stories. It's totally fun. It also, when you talk about the disproportionate aspect of this and kind of similar to what we've been talking about as women in this industry and everything we have to go through, your clothing even became a huge topic of conversation during this time. You were trying too hard.

1:18:22Oh, yeah. You were attempting to outshine the cast. Right. Then you were showing too much skin. Right. Then you were copying your boyfriend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like, what do you think was underneath people's like drive and need to take a style choice and use it as an opportunity to essentially judge your entire being and character? I think that what happens is people become hypersensitive. They're looking for evidence to reinforce the narrative they've already created about you. so if they've decided because the kind of tabloids have cast you in the soap opera of the tabloids as the villain that's been determined and so anything you do it's like it'll reinforce that same thing I mean again like I don't I don't blame people because I understand I mean I sort Yeah, I felt I feel like hurt by it and confused.

1:19:19But but I don't know it. In a way, it was almost like it wasn't me. It's like I could I think that people just removed the human from it. And it was just like a thing. But I also think he had lack of information. Also, I at the time, I think, didn't understand the value of vulnerability. I think I thought that put a fucking smile on and get out there and put on a beautiful dress and like be Teflon. And that was the way to get through it. I actually think there's value in being vulnerable and just being like, oh, ouch. I don't know. This fucking hurts. I don't, and I think that my own attempt to be strong and to kind of like rise above it in a way came off as inauthentic.

1:20:14Because people are like, you must be hurting. Why are you pretending to not be hurting? I think that feels inauthentic. And there's almost a sixth sense like uncanny valley thing where people are like, I sense, I sense that you're not showing us your pain. And therefore, it'll cause you more pain. that's you know what's hard too is like the way that it's so piecemeal on the internet and the tabloids you're like this is such the weirdest wrong story and like that's not what's happening behind the scenes at all but again then you have understandably PR people being like shut your fucking mouth and get on the carpet and don't do anything get out there and it makes me think of I had a conversation with Michelle Obama this past year and she talked about how she put so much thought into every single outfit she wore every day and she had to and what would the message be and what how would it you know come off and her husband never even had to think about that men don't have to think about that his only scandal was that tan suit yeah they don't have to think about it and yet he did because people were like there's gotta be something we can say and it's like that suit unacceptable brock but like unacceptable and so i couldn't help but think like how much thought are you putting into your fashion choices for promoting your new film oh funny i mean because this is a different vibe i think that there i think that i am at this place where i i rather i think when you go through something like that You can choose to say like, I'm never letting anyone in ever again.

1:21:53I am a lockbox and you can't come near me. Or you can choose a path that is more vulnerable, but is more authentic. And I think that I, as I've gotten older, have become more and more myself. There's a Miles Davis quote that's like, it takes you a long time to sound like yourself. And I think that it is clear to me that I am way more comfortable with myself now than I was before all that happened. So again, that like the kind of destruction that it felt like allowed for the rebuilding. But it was it was fucking insane. I can't even describe to you like when it got when it got I remember when we got to the point of like spit gate.

1:22:41We were like, OK, what? my god i forgot about that do you remember that wait wasn't it like you they thought that you spit on someone that harry spat on chris pine and it really looked like it it was really funny we were all we like did the venice film festival we're like that was fun and we we flew home and we we got to new york and then it was like um you guys did um did harry did you spit on chris and we were like what and they're like look at this video it really and we looked and we're like Like, okay, fair enough. That looks - It kind of low-key looked like it. It was like this weird optical illusion.

1:23:19But the fact that then it turned into this massive thing, I was like, okay, we've tilted into a world of like insane, complete surrealism. The slow-mo videos. Yeah. The analyzing. I remember - It was. It was like the - I forgot about that. The Bruder. Yeah, it was like - The biggest thing in the world. It was the biggest. And again, it must have been like, America was trying to avoid its own pain. because wait, that must have been an escape. But it was crazy. Like, the funny thing about all of that was that I continued to try to tell myself throughout all the things, like, the movie and then after the movie, like, it's okay.

1:23:55Like, you're probably just the only one noticing these things. Like my cadaver Gollum photo. You're the only one who noticed. And I'm sure no one else saw. And then being like, oops. Like, I will never forget. One of the most fucked up things that I went through among so many was that I was served papers on stage. And I'll just say that now with enough space behind it, the part that I can laugh at is that obviously it was incredibly traumatizing. There's so many elements to that, but I get through it because weirdly as women were taught to muscle through the most insane experiences. I was like, just finish your speech, got through it.

1:24:39it went backstage completely like like dissolved into a puddle but then i thought was like i was like no one saw it because there's no phones allowed in this event and so that is no one saw oh what's that it's already up on page six there's a video okay well no one's gonna look because like no one's paying attention and then i remember like a couple months later i had the chance i met tom cruise and he was like hi i'm tom fucked up what happened to you in vegas and i was like no you're like i convinced myself tom that no one knew why are you talking to me olivia no you've had like a crazy bro uh that that moment did you ever get clarity on like if it was purposeful or not?

1:25:23No. I had basically I I know Jason has has has told me that he did not know and I need to believe that in order to continue. And, you know, I think that lawyers can be super fucked up and do fucked up things. And I'm aware of that. And all of it is, you know, But I think that people are never their best selves when they're engaging in that kind of process. And it was so fucked up in so many ways. I don't think, I know that whether or not he knew it was going to happen, I know it really hurt him to see it happening to me. Like, I think it was undeniable that it was like a fucked up thing. And I know he felt very, very bad that it happened to me.

1:26:14um it it was it was a moment that I ended up doing a lot of therapy about still kind of do there's a there's the feeling of being on stage you know like that is a vulnerable feeling also that room was couldn't have been higher stress the people in that room at cinema con are all the um they're all the most it's all the studio people so it's all the people you were trying to like impressed the most with your work and all the exhibitors that people have the movie theaters the people you need to sell your movies and all the press and it was like i cannot fucking believe this is happening to me here and yet you know the crazy thing is like once you make it through things like that you kind of feel like you can make it through anything i would assume Because these are, these are, we're at, we're peak, babe.

1:27:07Like we, it couldn't get crazier. And I have so much respect for you in that moment. I think everyone in the world did. And I can't help but think too of like, you're navigating like, you know, the dissolution of a public relationship. You're in a now public relationship at the time. And I remember some of the headlines saying, moving on too quickly. She's abandoning her family and her children. like bad that hurt how did you feel oh my god about being like how much women are judged again disproportionately than the men in those situations when you were reading those headlines i remember there was a um it was thanksgiving and we were separated and i was with the kids because it was my time to be with the kids uh everything was as it should be uh kids were with me and jason was photographed with his girlfriend on the beach in like costa rica or something and the press were like yay for him like he looks so happy so wonderful and i was like if i was away from my children on a national holiday you're looking on a beach it'd be like literally just burn her at the stake now no take her out take the kids away from her forever and burn her to the ground she should lose custody she should it would have been used in the court of law it was crazy that you know he wasn't doing anything wrong i knew where he was he knew where we did everything was as we it was my week with the kids but i was like what the fuck and then i would on my weeks when i wasn't and i would be you know somewhere people were like well my my my she forgot her kids oh she forgot her kids i guess she forgot she's a mom the double standard it was nuts but You know, there was never any public understanding, of course, because they're not a part of our private lives.

1:29:02But of that breakup, like, it's no surprise to me that I ended up making a movie about relationships and the complexity of determining whether a relationship is over because it is not an overnight process. It's very difficult. and the idea that relationships can come to a place where you become strangers. Like, I mean, I always remember the date because it was my birthday, but this is March 2020, March 10th. And Jason and I had been having a rough time for a while. Like, we had a real bumpy, bumpy ride. And we were driving home from my birthday party my friends had had. And I said, did you give me a birthday present?

1:29:54And he said, what would I get you, Olivia? I don't know you. And he wasn't wrong. We didn't know each other anymore. And this is the thing that made me want to make this movie because, or one of the things, because you can get to a place in a relationship where you stop engaging in the knowing of each other, in the curiosity about each other. and you find yourself in a place where you're like i don't even know you and that was a point that was when we realized it was over and it was fucking tough and and and it brought us to the place of like okay this is done we're gonna end this and then literally two days later was lockdown covid you're like oh and then we you know i'm sure there were a lot of couples i wonder it'd be really funny to have a convention of like everybody who broke up the day before lockdown and then had to live and then be like we are now co-parenting in the same house and obviously trying to make it work and trying to put it back together because you want to always put it back together for your kids until you realize like this isn't helping anybody that is so insightful because when I was watching this movie, I was blown away by how you were able to so eloquently slow roll for us, essentially, the way that a marriage can become so frictionful, but so subtle.

1:31:34Because even the banter that you provided us and the brilliant dialogue it's funny and I have no couples like that we're like it's entertaining oh but that was how we were mean yeah yeah yeah yeah I think that you is when you're still there's so many couples who are like bickering in a way that becomes kind of a little comedy act yes but there's contempt underneath and we all know contempt is the end and it is this kind of poking and scraping, but you can go a long time with that. And it takes somebody stopping engaging in that to have the real conversation. And you're right. This movie is about Seth Rogen and my character are engaged in this kind of passive aggressive, non-communication, constant bickering, like constant talking over each other and just little digs, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig.

1:32:34And yet, and they are living in the same space and yet they are miles apart. They don't know each other at all. And what I love so much is you exploring, um, what Esther always talks about was like that need and want for desire. The moment I remember you put on the shirt and he's like, is that a new shirt? You're in the middle of fighting. He's like, is that a new shirt? And you're like, yeah, it's a new shirt. And he's like, it looks really nice on you. And you're Like, I just told you. And it's so real. We're like, you're not feeling seen. He's seeing you in that moment. But you're then like equating it to the larger understandably.

1:33:07But you never see me. And he's like, I'm just fucking seeing you right now. And it's like, that's so real. It's so real. It's so real. Also, once we, it's kind of like what we were just saying about how like the public, once they assign this identity to you, then they just confirm it. Everything's confirmation bias. I think in a relationship, that can happen too, where you've decided like, you're an asshole and you don't listen to me. And then if they're listening to you, you're like, oh, really? You're listening to me right now? You're now listening. Why? This just draws attention to when you don't listen.

1:33:34And it's like, OK, but at what point are you going to allow for change? And I think people often don't allow for change until something calamitous happens. Until there's like somebody cheats or something falls through. And then then people allow for change.

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1:35:20Even as an online student, you'll have real support from real people like admission counselors, instructors, and ride or die academic advisors, all genuinely cheering you on every step of the way. So daddy gang, if you're like, where should I go? Where is it? You know your answer now. Getting your degree online doesn't have to mean doing it alone. Start yours at snhu.edu slash callherdaddy. I want to ask you so much about the movie. I have two more questions that I think are kind of pertinent to like what we've been discussing, especially as a woman. I need to hear just your take on men date who are in positions of power, date younger women all the time.

1:36:04Like it is. And everyone's like, and yeah, like there's no there's no question. What do you think was so triggering to people seeing you dating a man that they deemed you the position of power and the older woman? Like, what was it there that you think was upsetting to people? Oh, man. I don't know. It really did upset people, though. The resentment, the suspicion of you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was crazy. I don't know how much I understand it yet. That's one of the factors that I never really felt like I fully, I don't know. I mean, I know it, I know that it has existed for a long time in our society.

1:36:53Like, I understand it had very little to do with me. It is something that we have, we've done this to women for a long time. Why is it? I don't know. People were fucking pissed. I think that it also had a lot to do with the kind of parasocial relationship people have with him, which is a burden that is very weighty and not something I envy. And he carries it with grace. I think that is an enormous responsibility that all those stars have to carry. And it's fucking impossible. I don't know. It's wild because, I mean, we had the loveliest relationship, like so, so sweet and so beautiful and like really actually very like domestic and kind and lovely.

1:37:52And like, I think that we existed in this like little bubble and the judgment never really like got into that bubble, which was a miracle and a testament to like, to us like making that happen. I think that people were mad. They were, they were just, it's almost like the, the happiness made them mad. like I would like go to his shows and dance and people were like oh oh good gee you slut you fucking slut you're like how dare you dance and smile but you know like oh god yeah that that is why what do you think why do you I I think it's almost similar to what you and that's why I was so fascinated to ask you because I do think this is such an important conversation to have I think that it's similar to Thanksgiving that you just talked about.

1:38:50Oh, yeah. I think that it's we police women's morality to such a different degree than men. Yeah. That in especially mothers, the fact that you have kids, you're fucked. Oh, yeah. So you're presenting in a way that when you do go through a separation and then you are dating someone who is, you know. By the way, Jason was dating someone, I think even younger. I think his age. No, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I think that there is a expectation, especially as a mother, that when you go through that public separation with the kids involved, you are supposed to be self-sacrificing. You move to a convent.

1:39:25And you need to be sexless. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's funny. I think it even happens before separation. I think in – Esther writes about this a lot. But, like, in this country, motherhood. Motherhood means no more sexual being for you, young lady. you that part of you is over now and there is this puritanical basis to that which is like you are no longer capable of desire you don't deserve it you have served your purpose and now if i see you without your baby and you are like enjoying yourself as an individual woman i see that as a betrayal of this covenant and it you know as steroids that like in france when you see a baby when people see babies they think about sex because they're like that baby came from sex so that couple must fuck when we in america see a baby we're like they're not fucking they're not fucking and it's like because she's done and if we see a man alone with a baby we think that's hot we are attracted to that man he it suggests like he is a he's a daddy he's capable he's capable when we see a woman with a baby it's not like oh yeah sexy look at that look what she can do she's done she's done and i know you're already facing this and it is something that is it's wild because what you've done to remove shame from the conversation around sexuality and women is fucking revolutionary it is it's essential but it's crazy olivia because the way that they're like this slut oh yeah is now having a baby she's the biggest fucking hypocrite on the I know how babies are made.

1:41:11And it's so healthy to be the example of both. And that after you pop this baby out, you will continue to be a fully realized sexual human being. And that that's good. And it's like a very healthy thing. And that if you in your relationship were to lose that, that wouldn't make you happy and it would be unnecessary. And I think that you're right. Once there's separation involved, then it's another level. now it is like you go sit in the corner young lady old lady and you old lady old lady and you think about what you've done and the only time you're allowed out is if you are like holding a child or else like we don't want we don't want to see you can you talk to me about sex in this movie because it there was so much to it there was so much explored like you talked about the you know you in your dynamic with seth rogan and you guys as you know actors not having sex in your dynamic and realizing you hadn't had sex in almost a year.

1:42:09The other couple looking at you guys like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, talk to me about sex. Yeah, it one of my favorite parts of the movie is this argument we have about why we don't have sex. And I love this one moment where it's set as Joe says, we don't have sex because you won't have sex with me. You're supposed to be attracted to me. You're supposed to want me. You're my wife. And that line, I remember when he said it and you can see on camera, you can see like veins popping out of my neck because I was like, no, because it felt like it was like this is the core of what is wrong with the society and how what we're expected to do as partners and as wives and husbands.

1:42:56It's like you are supposed to want me forever without any participation in that, without earning it. And I think that we don't talk about sex with the person we're in a relationship with, Esther, and we then just decide that we deserve it and it's their fault if we're not getting it, even though we're not typically communicating about what we want and what we need. But the other thing is like, and Seth and I felt very passionate about this when we were making the movie. We were like, we feel very strongly that sex is important in a relationship and that people who don't have sex and say, well, we don't have sex, but we have like a really healthy relationship.

1:43:44I call bullshit on it. And I understand that some people might disagree. But the thing is, the value of nonverbal communication and the practice of the kind of trust and curiosity involved in intimacy, that is a big part of a relationship. And I think if you have ceased to engage in that, you have to pay attention. I'm not saying like, if you don't fuck 11 times a month you're a bad marriage it's not that it's like like the old like cosmo quizzes or whatever it is it's just that you have to look at it you have to look at like why aren't you able to non-verbally communicate in this very vulnerable way is it because there's a deeper conversation that needs to take place and the way that you explored a lot of these topics from the female perspective when you guys brought up menopause and Penelope's like let me let me equate menopause to you and you're like crushing your balls pulling that and Seth Rogen is literally like I'm so fucking that was all Penelope and Rashida they felt very passionate about making sure that was in there and I was like fuck yeah let's go let's talk about perimenopause I learned so much from the process of of all of us putting that together because I was like I had never heard of a lot of this.

1:45:10I hadn't heard of frozen shoulder. I hadn't heard of like all these things. And I was sitting there like a student being like, what's going to happen? Why don't we talk about this? And I, I, we're hearing it more and people are really starting to bring it into like the discourse. And that's awesome. But I, I think that that is one example of the kind of conversations that people are just not having and particularly with their partners. Cause it also feels like, I think that topic specifically feels like an acknowledgement of aging in a way that feels scary because then it's like will you not want me anymore blah blah blah no it's so true it's so true I cannot wait for people to see this movie I think that again I had no idea what to expect and I am so excited to also see the difference in reaction between men and women I thought about this this morning.

1:46:02No. And I called him this morning and I was like, oh my God, you have to fucking watch this. And he was like, is it like a thriller? Like the trailer, I don't understand what. And I'm like, I don't want to tell you much, but it starts and you just get so entranced in this entire dynamic. And I want to hear your perspective on it because Matt is someone who's in therapy. His mom's a therapist. Like he's into this type of shit, but I cannot wait to see men versus women and how they feel about it also there is an ambiguous ending to it um ambiguous I was like what the fuck at the end of every screening I've been doing a poll and I have said do you think these people stay together or not oh my god and I'll tell you off camera what my thoughts it's really interesting because I will say women tend to believe that they don't.

1:46:57And it is interesting to me because I think it's brought me to this realization that when women are done with a relationship, they're done. They're done. Women don't really come back. A guy sometimes comes back. Women, by the time we decide to go, we've thought about it. And we have reviewed it with our committee and we have internally. The committee's like, this is how we'll leave. We'll get the bags on this day. When men do it, it's like, I think I want to end it. Never mind. I didn't mean to say that. All right, we'll stay. And so I'm fascinated by the response that the audience has been having.

1:47:39But also my interpretation of it is changing based on like how romantic I'm feeling on any sad day. I'm like, I don't know. I can't believe you're so you're a real big romantic I am a live a while it would just make any sense considering everything we've just covered like how that's the thing the the like if you can if you can grow older and stay hopeful in every way about everything then you've really won right like you've you've managed to defeat the like pitfalls that allow you to just like become pessimistic about everything and I think that like romance I'm I'm still a sucker for it I I think that I've learned to be alone which is amazing and which has made me capable of relationships but like I tell everybody and I I know the daddy gang knows this because you've said it in different ways but like spend some time I can't spend some time alone be single be figure out who you are as a whole being and then you might be ready to be in a relationship but until you do that you just don't know you don't know and then you could potentially be someone who settles yes and we don't want to settle no there's no need I could talk to you for so many more hours I had so much excitement coming into this I literally had been talking to my mom, my sister, my friends about this.

1:49:10When we booked this, I was like, I have so much respect for you. And I feel very in simpatico with you in a lot of ways of like being a very confident, strong woman. And I say that, and I know people can roll their eyes because it's like, don't have too much confidence, but it's like, I feel that in you. And I feel that within myself. And when you're unapologetic, it can really rub people the wrong way. And I have so much respect for the way that you have navigated the public and and just everything you've done because you're so bright and intelligent and smart and it shows in this movie and all the other things that you've done and so to not give credit to that first and be like but I think she's a bitch and it's like I don't give a fuck if she's a bitch she's talented and she's intelligent and guess what she's actually also not a bitch well the thing i'm so glad the thing that the thing that i have learned and i actually did i learned this from um this sounds so crazy but after i saw the documentary about pamela anderson i reached out to her and i was like yo respect just want to say big fan respect and she was aware of some of the shit that i was going through and she wrote to me and she said, the most rebellious thing you can do is stay soft.

1:50:32Don't let it harden you. And I think that connects to what I was saying before about like being, staying vulnerable. And I want to tell you because you are only going to get more and more powerful and successful and you're going to continue this work, which is so essential, as I was saying, like, don't let them fuck with you. but the unapologetic thing you can misunderstand to mean invulnerable and i think like staying soft and vulnerable and being comfortable saying like you guys it's that fucking hurts and it's not real and it's not true and like don't feel like you have to stay so strong for us we know you're strong it's okay to be soft if you need to my pregnancy hormones i'm like um thank you so much for coming on Call Her Daddy.

1:51:21This was beyond, beyond an honor. Seriously. Love you. Thank you. I love you.

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