Riley Keough: Nepo babies, Addiction & Grief

0:02What is up daddy gang? It is your founding father Alex Cooper with call her daddy. Riley Keough, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Thank you. I am such a big fan. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Of course. I huge Daisy Jones and the Six Girl. Oh, cool. Like binged the whole thing and said it. Really? Loved it. Thanks for watching. My husband was like, all right, you could take a break. I'm like, no, no, no. It's kind of one of those where you just got to get. Keep going. Yeah, I got to get to the end. It was awesome. That's the way. what was your favorite part of playing that role i think getting to learn like to sing and play guitar was my favorite part because it was that i think that's one of my favorite things about acting in general is learning like a whole new skill set and this one was like very in like normally you do a few rehearsals or do if you're you know training to do i don't know to be a dancer or whatever.

1:01I don't know. Like I've never done something so involved. Like I haven't had to fully learn to like sing and play guitar. So I found that really fun. Wait, you were doing like full voice lessons? We were doing, yeah, like we had band practice every day and it was like a year long. But we needed it. Like none of us, not none of us, a few of us had never picked up an instrument and or sang. Was there ever a point in your life that you would have considered a music career? Never. No. Never. No, I still would never. I'm not a singer. I feel like you have a good voice unless they auto-tuned it. It's fine.

1:40They didn't auto-tune it, but I have a fine voice. I just got by, but I, I, uh, I'm a realist and I know I'm not a singer. The fact that you're telling me they didn't edit your voice, you have a good voice. They didn't edit it, I think. you call them they're like oh babe that shit was auto-tuned you're like fuck i think they i don't think they auto-tuned i think the whole point was because it was meant to sound 1970s that you wouldn't do that yeah yeah you sounded gorgeous okay lean i i felt proud that i was able to do it because there was like a conversation uh about potentially getting like vocal stunt doubles or something.

2:20Oh my God. And so I felt really determined to make it work. And I feel proud we made it work. You know, I, I don't think I'm like the best singer in the world. And I, you know, that's fine. You made it work with flying colors. I made it work. Um, I love how you're like, Oh, like I, no, no, no. I like never sang from my research. You and Dakota Johnson were in a band together in New York city. Don't lie to my face. This is so funny. This comes up so often. And like, I think that we need to do something here because yes, we were in a band, but the band was me and her sitting with her brother around a table in her apartment in New York with photo booth, like doing covers of songs.

3:00But here's the thing. Neither of us were confident singers. So we would just kind of like all sing together. Oh, so you were, you were all competing for like the lead role. You're all the lead vocalists. You're all the lead. Wait, what was the band called? Fokey Porn. Fokey Porn? Perfect for Color Daddy. Wait, I'm obsessed. I had a band at one point and I was like so committed. Did you really? Yeah, but it was so bad. What did you do? So, yeah, well, here's the thing. You know, I started as like the electric guitarist. Cool. But that is like loosely saying that. The only song I could - A loose electric guitarist.

3:34Yeah. I relate. I'm a loose guitar player. I like looked incredible holding it. Okay. But the minute I would get going, it was I was giving nothing. Right. I knew how to play the like, whatever that song is. I could do those like three little things. That was all I knew. Our band was called The Aliens. It was a big deal. It was in my basement. And then we changed it to Green Jelly. Cool. Were the other people in the band also loose musicians? Everyone was loose. Okay. Everyone was loose. Okay. We were kind of just there for the vibes. Yeah. Our sign was on like printer paper with like a little marker.

4:16Right. It was edgy. It was the thing. I actually paid my neighbors at one point like 25 cents to come watch us perform. Wow. They were upset that we wasted their time. So like I'm a big band girl. So Dakota and I didn't get like that far into it. We kind of like it lasted maybe like three days. Oh my God. and uh then it was over the band broke up good to know good to know we how do you guys know each other like when did you become friends uh we became friends because we both grew up in LA and just there was some kind of I had a friend who was friends with her boyfriend and we met at like an in and out parking lot and then we went to all the same parties and in LA at like 16 17 and I'd see her out and about and then I became friends with her boyfriend and then so I went to go see his band play and she was always there and she was like the coolest girl the coolest the coolest and she still is she is and then we just I don't know became friends and don't you love when like people are obsessed with like celebrity friendships we're like no no come on tell us more yeah you're like we're just friends hung out right we're at in and out sometimes we hang out and talk on the phone yeah I think because it makes people feel like closer to you guys have like you guys are obviously both like very cool interesting people and so I think to know that you guys are friends people like I'm like come on give me more tea I can give you tea I just don't really have any but if there's anything you can think of I'm gonna get I'm a tea giver okay okay good you did show up today and be like we don't have to cry I just don't want you to feel pressure I don't want you to feel pressure at all if you hate any of my questions let me know okay we can pivot deal okay good um how do you think hey what hey i'm like let's sit inside like i do love that you were 30 minutes old like early and you brought no one yeah can i tell you i've had people come to my studio with like a whole 20 people 10 people five people but the solo solo is a first um here's my answer i'm not like technically on like a press tour right now.

6:29So I'm not, I have, I have no problem going places all by myself, you know? I love that. And I like, I actually enjoy it. I am the same way whenever I go on a podcast, which is rare. I'm like, no one come with me. I'm going to let it rip. Yeah. Let God go with me. The cool thing about not having a publicist here is I can say whatever I want. For sure. Then she's going to call you after and be like, what was it? You're like, I don't remember. We talk for almost an hour like who knows exactly just let it be you know what i mean it's fine you're not gonna get canceled from this um how would your friends describe you oh my gosh that's such a hard question i don't know i have no idea like in what way like this like a like how would they describe you like if dakota was in the room right now like what would she say about you oh we should we could call her also do you want to let's call her hold on that will be fucking funny go get your phone so she didn't answer okay let's call another friend okay all you're asking is how would you describe me as a friend how would you describe me i'm on a show give me a good answer so do you want them to be famous or not i mean famous is fun famous is more fun okay like i'll call john it's so funny because people every i do this a lot of the time a lot and where people will be like how would your friends or what friends could we speak to about you for this interview and i give like my all my closest friends and they're like but what about like famous ones they're like they're like no no we don't care about cassidy like we don't we don't want you know yeah yeah yeah it's so funny okay should i try zoe kravitz yeah let's give her a go the nepo baby phone i'm upset okay okay oh my god hello hi wait you're on air

8:22hello i'm chewing sorry so what are you eating what are you eating i'm eating um toast i'm eating i'm eating raisin toast so cinnamon raisin toast with butter okay so i'm on a podcast and they asked me to call a friend to describe how you would describe me as a friend as a friend as a friend i would describe you as a ride or die like you are down for whatever you will always you show up all the time you're very consistent like i feel like me and you will like not talk or see each other for like six months and then it's like we just pick up where we left off and i think you're really good at keeping secret i'm gonna tell those on this pod actually um and you're incredibly loyal and you're funny you're funny as hell and you're honest keep going um you always text me back that's so cute and it's true thanks though you're welcome all right love you love you bye bye okay you're just like you're such a bitch okay you're just like a bitch you're a bitch really you think really you're the nicest person in the world okay

9:48i'm obsessed thank you for doing that first of all imagine if you're like i'm just kidding i'm not on a podcast i'm just like feeling needy today keep going yeah right okay those that That feels pretty accurate. I don't know. I didn't really hear much. She said I was loyal. She said you were loyal. I blacked out. You're really good at keeping secrets. I got nervous. You're like, no, no, I am on air. Don't say anything crazy. Don't say anything. I got nervous of what she was going to say. No, all of that was lovely. Okay. And when she said you were a bitch, I'm like, that is the complete opposite of what I'm getting.

10:16You are a very gentle soul. Thank you. I think that I would say I am a loyal friend. I do really care about my friends and, you know, I hope I think. Allegedly. OK, let's talk about the book. It is so fascinating, like what you wrote about. Yeah. From Here to the Great Unknown. First of all, just to like tell the daddy gang, my audience, like how did this book come to be? This book came to be because my mother was in the middle of writing her autobiography. And in December, she came to me and said, you know, I need help. Like she couldn't, she didn't really, I think she just got to a point where she was feeling frustrated and she didn't like talking about herself.

11:14So writing an autobiography was difficult. And she asked if I would help her. And then she passed away a month later. So I just found myself like it was just this thing that I had to do. So I just completed her memoir, which was, you know, very intense. How long did it take you? Oh, my gosh. Probably about a year. Yeah. Wow. How do you think like having that project to work on after your mom passed like helped you work through your feelings? Well, I think that when I started working on the book, it was only like three, four months after she'd passed away. So it was very like intense and I didn't really want to be doing it, to be honest.

12:03It felt like this thing I had to complete. And so I was a little bit resistant in the beginning. And it's also like it's very out of my comfort zone to write a story or tell all the things like my family's personal, all these vulnerable things about my family. It's not something that I would do otherwise, you know. So it was there was a lot I felt very resistant. But ultimately, I was doing it for her. And it's what she wanted. And I knew how much she wanted to finish her autobiography and share her story. so people could understand her more and also so she could relate to people. And she's been through so much.

12:44And I think that largely why she did this was to kind of share her experience in grief and addiction and these very human things. And so, yeah, so I would say that I did it, but I wasn't like really excited to do it. No, I think like hearing you even say that is interesting when you said like my natural reaction isn't to just like spill all family secrets. And I think just to clarify for anyone that is not like familiar with like your family lineage, like you are Elvis's granddaughter. Your mom was Elvis's only daughter. And so I get what you're saying is like it's a very famous family that you come from.

13:24So to write basically like a big book being like here's detail by detail what went down. Usually we don't get that from very famous families. Yes. And, you know, particularly in my family growing up and with my mom, she was extremely private. She hated talking to the press. She didn't want to be famous. Like she was born into a situation she really didn't enjoy. And growing up in the world we grew up in was very private, very secretive, very like everything was a security issue like there was no talking to friends about things like our family stuff was you know everything was very private so it was a lot of uh I had to push through that sort of uncomfortable feeling of like sharing all this information but the other thing is is like as a person I'm a very honest person and I also couldn't imagine so she like she was uncomfortably honest.

14:27So I think I couldn't have imagined a version of her book where she didn't, you know, share all these things. Yeah. And like go all in. Yeah. Your baby photo was sold for$300 ,000 on the cover of People magazine. Like that is insane. What's insane is like$300 then was like$300 ,000. $300 ,000. $300 ,000. It was like a million, like close to a million dollars. Like you're so wanted. Well, well, used to be. Can you like looking back at your childhood, obviously growing up in this famous family, what is something that was definitely not normal that like you got pretty used to because you were just like, oh, I thought this was our reality.

15:12Like all of it. You know, like if I if I like shared the day to day growing up, it would probably be like, you know, crazy to give us a little. come on well it was just a lot of like thing like it was very like high security and like for going somewhere it was like lots of people following us and very like intense and chaotic and like going through you know i don't know like how are you so calm uh i don't know i i'm not at all you're like internally internally i'm burning down all day it's the external you're keeping it all together, but internally? Yes. Okay. Good to know. How would you have described yourself as a kid?

15:54I was very quiet, really internal. I wasn't, I got called shy a lot, but I actually wasn't shy. I just was very internal. Like I just didn't have a lot to say and just was, yeah, I was very quiet. I was like that actually most of my life until I started to realized that people would perceive that as rude. So I really pushed myself to, you know, come out of my shell. Like right now, I don't want to be talking, but I have a camera in front of me. Gotta be here. Hi, everyone. Oh, that's so interesting. So if like you're in, if you're going through something in your life, whether it's like a fight with your partner or a friend, like do you just go silent?

16:40No. No. No, no, no. I'm very, I'm very emotional. I'm just not somebody like at a dinner party. Got it. If a lot of people are talking, I prefer to listen. It's just that. It's not like I'm like internalized. I'm very, I'm very open with my emotions. Got it. Got it. I'm just not like a big chatter. Love. Yeah. Love. Welcome to an hour sitting down with me. Let's go, girl. I am now. I wasn't. I've grown. I've changed. You're doing great. I don't know. I hope. Where am I? The book obviously switches between like your mom and her perspective than yours. How do you think you guys were similar as teenagers?

17:18Wow. I think I also had a moment of like, she had like her rebellious moment. I also had that, like where I would sneak out and, you know, hang out with people I shouldn't, wasn't allowed to and getting arrested and, you know. You got arrested? I did. I've never said that. You're like, wait, this is why I'm publicist. Where's my publicist? to come in no one's here to save you wait that's kind of like i i was arrested once yeah is a good mugshot i never saw it what i know you need to make t-shirts i know i was a minor so luckily i think it was like so it's like an underage yeah a lot of people that i know got those those were like i was like so terrified to get one because i like needed to go play like soccer and if you had one you couldn't play it was a whole thing right but like i was there you got you got a mugshot you didn't get i didn't get a mugshot but now in hindsight i'm like oh would have been like a little edgy so i had an edgy moment no um if we're just drinking it was for oh god i can't say this my public it was for breaking and entering oh man what where um so it was actually so i went to a party at my friend's house okay but i didn't know that it wasn't my friend's house It was a house for sale.

18:43And so most people like the police came and most people like got away and then about 10 of us got arrested. My mom was pissed. Did she try to like get it not in the papers? No, she was like, this is on you, girl. Yeah. Oh, my God. Luckily, it didn't get it. It wasn't in the papers. Was your mom someone that would punish you? Like, are you getting grounded? I was grounded. Oh, yeah. I was grounded for like three months. And I was grounded on my like 16th or 15th birthday or something. Yeah. That's tough. I was grounded and she was in Las Vegas and I had to call her and tell her to come back from Vegas and pick me up in prison.

19:28I've never told anyone this. You're like, mom, I'm in jail. She's like, I'm on the strip, bitch. What? no so she she's like I can't get there so she sent my aunt to come get me and uh so you know I had a moment I had a moment like a moment as a teenager and she also did love yeah okay um you write a lot about like the different relationships that your mom had romantically throughout your childhood when you were five your parents got divorced because your mom wanted to marry Michael Jackson. How was this explained to you as a kid like that they were getting divorced? So my mom, I was like, we were in Florida and I was sitting on her lap and she said, I'm me and your dad are getting a divorce.

20:16And I took like the way I received it was that he wasn't my dad anymore. And it was like, it's so memorable to me because I just was destroyed. I didn't understand what a divorce was so I just thought like he's not my dad now um but the great thing was shortly after like they were so close and they really cared about keeping them you know our family dynamic the same so he was at our house and staying over and so he was there a lot so I think I kind of forgot about it which was so you got to see like a very loving relationship between the two of them even though they got divorced yeah like a really unique like it was a very unique unique experience, especially in the 90s, you know, to have both of your parents sort of like brother and sister really close living together.

21:07He lived with us for a lot of my life when my mom had other partners and other husbands. He would live in the guest house. And so my what was modeled to me was when you break up with someone, you stay friends with them. And I really like apply that to most of my relationships because that was kind of all that I that was what I saw with my parents. And it was really beautiful. I mean, they were they were like best friends and I don't know if they should have been married. We when you break up with someone or they break up with you and you're staying friends with them, have any of your past relationships been like, Riley, like we broke up.

21:49Why are like are you still trying to stay so amicable and are people ever confused by like how amicable you are no because I think that like it was never a forced thing I think I just I don't know how I did it that there were there was like one relationship that there was you know no friendship there but for the most part all the other ones I don't even know it wasn't I wasn't like consciously thinking about it we just ended up friends it's just kind of like how you were raised to think that's how you go about it which is probably in hindsight like a I don't know. Do we think it's a better way to go about it?

22:25My feeling was always like, this is a person that I love that I spent a lot of time with. Why wouldn't I have them in my life? If, you know, unless it was like some like crazy unhealthy situation. Yes. Of course, it's uncomfortable for a minute. But I think ultimately, if it's someone that I really cared that much about, then I'd want them in my life somehow. We just skirted past the big name, Michael Jackson. okay let's go back for a second so on top of like your family already being obviously so famous how did your life get even crazier when michael entered the picture because he had his own slew of like paparazzi and people following him and a media empire essentially our life wasn't crazier because that was already there that already existed like the press and the crazy the paparazzi and you know all that um but her life i think when she saw michael's life there were things that he had that she didn't have like she didn't have a plane at the time or you know things like that and so her she want she then was like oh i'm i should have a plane and i should have a you know this and that and so our life in that way kind of got bigger got bigger because she before that she was with my dad and my dad, their life was very simple.

23:43Not with the press and the craziness, but in terms of like at home, like she didn't have 10 million assistants and, you know, she didn't need all of that. And I think that changed. How did your mom try to protect you and your brother from the paparazzi during all this? It's so funny because I get tagged in these photos all the time where we're wearing like a hat and glasses. And I'm like, what does that do? It's so weird. Stunning. like like a hiding I don't know like I guess they attempted to hide our faces but it was like impossible what is the most like extravagant thing Michael did for you and your brother there was a lot of like um closing down things for us um well it was kind of like the only way that our family could do things like uh if we wanted to go to a toy store or like something like that like or ride rides or you know so so it wasn't I don't know if it was necessarily done for us or for just for like our family situation where we had to shut the you know the toy stores and stuff but there was one memorable time in London where um we were in the toy store so it was just my brother and I in the whole toy store and we were just like going floor to floor to floor and like filling up our thing and yeah that was the first thing that comes to mind but I don't know if it was for us or just like the way that our life was you know it's so interesting like hearing that because now i know obviously you have a daughter growing up with such lavish things around you?

25:32Have you thought to yourself like that was so normal to you? And like, how are you going to parent differently than how your mom parented you? I think she was such a she was an amazing parent. And she wanted us to have I think like her father did these amazing experiences all the time. For me personally, I want I think that the problem there could be for some that when you're used to so much, it's hard to find joy in simple things. And so I really want my children to be able to find joy and just, you know, playing in the backyard and doing normal kid stuff and not need like elephants and circus and, you know, like all these things all the time.

26:22So that's probably what I would do differently. But I think her intention was really, you know wanting to to give everything she could to her kids have you had a hard time like finding happiness in the simple things since you were around such wealth and big moments i think that there was a time in my life where i was like oh we're not gonna you know let me think of a good example of this like like even going to dinner growing up was like 50 people it was like a big deal everything was a big deal all the time so there was more of like a loneliness that would that I experienced in my 20s when our life was a bit different of um I was just used to having so many people around and everything being so intense that I felt a little bit lonely um when it was when my life was smaller, I think.

27:18I think that's like a relatable concept. I think like I always talk to my friends who when you get older and you're like, life is changing and families and Thanksgivings, like even if you look at what we see in like Hallmark movies and everything, like the bigger seems happier, right? Like a big family at a table and everyone is there. And when you have a smaller unit, it feels like this isn't as fun. This isn't as when really like it could be more intimate and you can have stronger connections and it's not it doesn't mean it's not fun. Yeah. But there's this feeling that it's that exact phenomenon, but like probably just a little different.

27:56But yes, it's like probably the same feeling you'd get if you, you know, came from a huge family and had big family gatherings all the time. And then it was just, you know, you or you moved somewhere and you're just like, what? This feels lonely. Absolutely. Obviously, finishing because I have to acknowledge it with the Michael stuff. Obviously, before your mom's relationship with him, there were allegations of abuse and that he assaulted children. Then your mom went on to marry him and you spent a good amount of time with him. Were there any adults in your life that were like, wait, I don't know if you should be spending time at Neverland?

28:37I don't know if we want you to be there. Like, was your dad nervous? I was never told anything. So even as it's, and it's actually not something I ever asked as an adult. Why do you think? I don't know. I think it just like was what it was. Like I didn't, I don't know. It just never came to mind, I guess. I would imagine that my dad was really heartbroken and reading the news. And I'm sure that I'm just imagining. I would imagine he said all kinds of things to my mom that we didn't know about. But nothing like the way my parents parented was very much like we don't fight around the kids. We don't ever say anything around them.

29:21There was no – like we didn't know anything. We didn't know about any allegations. We didn't know. We had no awareness of that. as an adult when you look back on that time of your life like how do you feel about it now um I mean the one thing I know is that they were in love and that their love for one another was genuine you know um because I was there and I remember everything else like I don't know because I wasn't there for you know when your mom would break up with these people and she would like find a different partner at some point in your life. Like, how do you think that affected your own attachment style?

30:01That's really interesting. I definitely would be really upset. Like when she would break up with people, Michael, her other partners, I would cry. I'd get mad at her. I really was upset. Like I'd get mad at her. I'd be pissed, you know, not knowing what happened, but I was always just mad at my mom for the breakups. So it really affected me. My attachment style. The one thing I know is that like throughout, through all of her relationships, everyone would always go, she should have stayed with Danny, who's my dad. And so I always have this voice in the back of my head. That's like, she should have stayed with Danny.

30:43And I know that she was, you know, someone who when things got boring or mundane or difficult she was like see ya you know and uh i think that there's this part of me that feels like i don't know staying with if you find if you're so lucky to find somebody who is like your kind of best friend in the way that that they were to to try and like you know make it work make it work yeah that was what i thought was interesting the book was like basically saying like when your mom was um when she was passing like wasn't he like the last person there basically for her yeah and through all of these different relationships didn't she date like nicholas cage at one point these big moments that were press moments but really the through line was like it It seemed like your mom and dad like always kind of stayed by each other's side, which I can imagine for your own like romantic situation.

31:50I know you're married now, but like prior to your husband. Were you ever feeling that through line of like, oh, this is getting boring. I'm going to run or have you know what I mean? I definitely had that when I was younger. OK. When I was younger, I was very hard to pin down. I was not interested in, you know, sticking around. Yeah. And I definitely, like, didn't have the best track record there. So that, I think, would tie to sort of my mom's way of, like, you know, moving on once the thrill is, you know, whatever. When I was a teenager, I was like a – That makes sense. Yeah. I'm curious, like, was there any part of you that was ever nervous to get married?

32:36No, which is so stupid. I was I mean I was young I was 25 when I got married oh my god I was a little girl and you weren't nervous I wasn't nervous I was so excited I didn't I I didn't know what marriage was I hadn't been in a relationship longer than three years you know like I I didn't think about it yeah I love that for you I mean that's like really interesting to hear because like I know why I love these type of conversations it's like you never know what you're gonna get because some people could be in your situation be like I was so petrified because I didn't want to do what my mom had done or you know you're gonna like play out what she was doing but you're like no I like went right into it yeah I didn't really think I was yeah it wasn't impulsive or anything I just like knew that he was the person I knew he was the person I was meant to have kids with I just knew it so I don't know and neither of us were like neither of us ever put any pressure on it either.

33:31It wasn't like we still don't. We're not like our marriage will never fail and we're going to be together till we're 80. You know, like we're both kind of like if we ever were unhappy, we would get divorced. Right. You know, you're realist. We're realist. We're like, whatever. You talk about how your mom was very open with you and that sometimes could feel like a curse. What do you mean by that? There were just not a lot of boundaries. It was very like everyone knew everything about everybody. Yeah. And everyone was involved in everybody's. If I was breaking up with a boyfriend like she was involved you know like it was like that kind of a thing um she everyone you know my brother my dad like we were very enmeshed I think um wow yeah so would you ever find yourself though like roles reversed I feel like sometimes people get to the point where they almost become the mother to their mother did you ever play therapist with your mom Yes, I think that there was a certain point probably in my mid-20s when I sort of became more of the caretaker in the relationship.

34:33And I think it was around when she became addicted to opiates. because she was always sort of the like leader in our family and then she had you know fell into her addiction and at that point I sort of yeah our dynamic changed a lot can we talk about that because so many friends and I have these conversations now I have people that write in and it's like such a mind fuck when you become the adult in the dynamic with your parent because you're like wait no it's inevitable it's so weird and hard and it's like you have to have so you either have to have so many conversations or you don't and it just is what it is and you're left feeling a little bit like an identity crisis because your parent who you could always go to and be like the child to you're kind of now like why are you relying on me so heavily for things that like I think the weirdest part about it in my experience is they don't notice they're doing it yes you know and you're like wait no how who's seeing this like it's such an unsaid thing yeah no you're so right like they're not aware but you're aware yeah and i'm like and then it's like awkward because you can't say like i don't want to be your parent like grow up like what is going on and that's why i think it's such a mind fuck because then the people or the person that you're most likely going to in your past go to to complain about something like that is your mom.

36:05So you go to the other one. Right. So you go to your dad. And then he's losing it too. And you're like, oh shit, girl going insane. It's really interesting watching my parents get older now. I'm like, do you feel like you have that dynamic with your parents? I started to in a moment and I have been doing a lot of therapy and they have like my mom and I have talked about like our therapy journeys because I'm like we gotta try to not make this happen like we even if we're equals as adults but I think and it's and it's what are the ways if you're comfortable and yeah sharing that you find yourself in that situation like how I think like as basic as like calling me for help on everything where you're like how did we get here how did we get here yeah how did we get through life where I have to say like that is something that I really am going to try my best.