Sarah Jessica Parker: How Carrie Bradshaw Changed Me

29:46Everyone's gonna be like, well, I actually love my job, but I hate that part of it. So it's almost like once you get to that top, don't, if you're going for the fame, you're not going to actually feel fulfilled because there's actually nothing within fame. Yeah. And it's too elusive. You can't, it's unreliable. It's fickle. But I feel like we both have to be so careful. Like there's nothing wrong with wanting to have people know who you are. And I think all the water is like very muddied. Yes. You then eventually got fame. Let's talk about Sex and the City.

30:36let's talk about sex in the city um what was your first impression of carrie bradshaw I really liked her. I mean, I would say more than even liking her, I just found it very compelling. All I had was the pilot script. I did know who Candace was because I was a New Yorker and I knew about her column in The Observer. We all knew that paper because it was pink, which is unusual for, that's a broadsheet, I think. And somebody had sent me the book, and I don't know why. So I was familiar with her work. The script was pretty slight, like it wasn't a long pilot. but first of all the way she was speaking like her choice of language i'd never seen or heard a woman talk like that and there was a kind of darkness to the pilot script that i thought was um very exciting to imagine and there is the last moment as described almost entirely in stage direction is she meets this fellow big he gives her a ride he says hey can i give you a ride they have a sort of flirty slightly withholding conversation in the back of a town car i miss a town car and do you know what a town car is i do um you guys don't know what a town car is do you if you saw it you too would be a town car That's cute.

32:13And he asks Carrie, you know, have you ever been in love? And she says something flippant to him about, I don't remember what she says. And he drops her off at her apartment. And she gets out. And the camera's, as described, I think in the pilot script, the camera stays on Carrie. And she walks toward her apartment door. And she quickly turns around. And she goes up to the window. And she knocks on the window, like with her knuckles. And he rolls it down. And she says, have you ever been in love? And he says, can I curse? Please. Okay. He says, abso-fucking-lutely. But he doesn't say it like that.

32:52He says it beautifully. He says, abso-fucking-lutely. And she turns around and walks back to her door. And his car, I think, pulls away in the background. And the camera just freezes on her. And I was like, well, now we got a story. And I just was like, well, where could this, where could it possibly end? You can just, whether these two together or separately, there's so much, it felt to me that there was a huge amount there. I have chills. You just describing that, I'm like, okay, like it was perfect. What did you admire the most about her? her kind of candor her curiosity about sex and sexual politics which is not like me i don't talk about that at all even with friends i i'll talk about it globally but not i don't sit and share intimate details of my life that way um i like that she was sort of circumspect about when she wrote that she had a kind of thing about this was what happened and how well how does it relate to the world?

34:03How does it relate to other women? And I admired that she was scrappy. She was like a little survivor. She had instincts to keep her head, not always making smart choices and falling short of being the best friend or the best girlfriend or her best self. But I also was very happy that they were writing her that way. Was there anything that frustrated you about Carrie? So, no. And, yeah. And I say that, like, slightly chagrined because I know as much as I don't read anything, you can glean that people, there's a sentiment sometimes that she's frustrating or she's selfish or she makes poor decisions or she doesn't manage her money well.

35:04Yeah, all of that has been true over the course of the last 25 years. But she's also been hugely loyal, decent, reliable, a really good friend, generous, available, present, comforting, given of herself in big and small ways that are private and public to her and among her friends. Um, and she loves like, so frustrated if I were watching her and if I were her friend and I would see a misstep or see her keep repeating something, you know whatever however she was choosing to deal with big um i'm sure i would feel frustration or i would feel like but as an actor playing it i want all of it i i want all of it and also i think we forgive our male characters our male leads we have no problem if they're you know murderers.

36:16You know, like, we have honestly, like... So true. My favorite show in that period is Sopranos. Like, it's my... And I love Tony Soprano. Like, I don't know if you guys watch Sopranos, but it's one of the great television shows in the history of American television. But Tony Soprano was a deeply flawed man. But we didn't talk as much about that as we did Carrie having an affair with a married man. You know, it was just very curious to me or they'd say she's selfish. And I was like, I can give you 10 reasons and ways in which she wasn't. And you're like hyper fixated on this. So frustrated, no, but I can absolutely understand if you're along for the ride, you can be like, lady, girl.

37:04It's such a good point. I think it's so fair. And I think that's also a lot of even criticism also comes from women. And I think it's just because we criticize ourselves so much. Yeah, we're very good at that. Beyond. Yeah. A plus in that category. But I think when people are watching a lot of times, I even felt like you really become so obsessed with these women that maybe a lot of the critique is because these we actually as viewers are like, no, you're my best friend, Carrie. Like, I'm with you. But like, we got to get it together. Yeah, got to get it together. So that's fair to hear you as an actress being like, oh, I loved her.

37:40But I so get where you're coming from, but like, it doesn't bother me. And I think that the way you characterize that kind of voiced frustration is so wonderful. Even if they're mad, even I feel like, gosh, to be part of something that people have such strong feelings for and against. And those feelings can change and they think they've made decisions about people and then the people surprise them. And Carrie matures too.

38:17But there wouldn't really be a show if she had been a more stellar, consistently stellar human being. There's no, there's, that's, that's it. The end. Done. Yeah. Done at the pilot. Yeah. See you all. Bye. Yeah. The show really celebrated female confidence. Behind the scenes at that time in your life, how did you feel about yourself? Probably the same level of confidence one feels on their best day and the lack of it that one feels on a middling or your worst day. And I do think that being on a television show in particular that grabs people's attention was probably a real test of coping, like my coping mechanisms, because I wasn't prepared.

39:14and this was before social media. So I really wasn't prepared for public commentary. And I think that was really unpleasant at times where people would have opinions, not about the work. Everyone's allowed to, everyone's a critic, but at the time there were fewer of them and they had their feelings about the show. And sometimes I felt like, we all felt like, well, you're not really, you're misunderstanding, but that's a separate thing. That's like an academic conversation. It was the personal stuff that I was really not prepared for. So at that time, I thought I was a fairly confident person, not boastful, not, it wouldn't be a confidence you could detect.

39:58It was just the way you get up every day and try to get on with your life and take care of yourself and the people you care about and love. But I think it really comes into question and is tested when you're kind of filleted in a way, when you're opened up. And I know you know this, we're better for those kinds of experiences, but not all of us are good at it right away. And it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Yes. And I think that was the thing is that up to that point, I just never had people have, and there was no chatter about me. There was no chatter about me. There was just my work. What were some of the comments that would be the hardest that got you?

40:50I think just discussions of my physical person, like stuff that I couldn't change and wouldn't change and had never considered changing or even still after hearing something that was like, what? Somebody would say that? Even still, no interest in changing it. And also, and I think once again, you can appreciate this and I feel like you found a better way. I didn't feel like it was actually a conversation. I didn't feel like I could sit in a room and someone would say to me, you're really unattractive. And then I could say, wow. Well, first of all, that's like hard to hear. But second of all, why do you seem angry about it?

41:40Or why do you feel it's necessary to say it, to comment? And I think it was really only one time And I don't really remember specifically the occasion, except it was brought to my attention that a magazine said something really, really mean about, you know, who I am, how I look. And I was like, I was like someone, it was like a kick in the rubber parts. I was just like, why, why is this a problem? problem why is this deserving of your time and why do you seem to delight in saying it and I called my friends two of my friends who happened to be male because I knew that they might know about it and I was just like I was sobbing because it felt so purposeful um and I think that's the only time I really cried about it.

42:44And I think it was just like an accumulation of like maybe a season of that kind of commentary, which nobody was trying to make me aware of it, but it gets, you know, it gets back. It gets in. It's interesting, though, because like you said, how maybe there it is a little different now, like in my position. Yes, I can like come on and speak like this. But like back then, I the analogy you use was so interesting where you're Like, I feel like I'm like being put out basically like a filet almost. And it's just like I'm getting seared. And I and then you're an actress. So you're not you're playing this character.

43:20People are commenting on you. You're going to the grocery store. You're seeing your face on magazines. They're giving commentary on your day of magazines. Oh, my God. And then you just have to go back to work. Whereas now, yes, we can go online and I can make a whole episode about it of why do we feel so comfortable commenting on women's bodies? why do we feel like women have to actually look like a statue where we celebrate men and a beer belly and it's like everyone's like he's hot and it's like it's just the double standards are insane yeah and talking more about it i appreciate you sharing that because i think so many women watching this would be like wait what you're literally one of the most beautiful women in the world like what does that and yet here we are we can never be good enough for the standards so At what point do we actually just be like, you have to just let it go.

44:06But it's so fucking hard. I think maybe there's like a threshold where maybe crying about it because it just seemed so cruel was like done. I do wonder, and I'm sure you've said this, and anyone who's been criticized, you can't help but wonder. I couldn't help but wonder. Sorry. Would you say it to my face? Would you? They will never. I don't know. Anyway. Mic drop. You were already married by the time you started filming Sex and the City. I just got married the night before. We were married. I told Darren we were supposed to start sooner. And I said, I'm going to tell you a secret, Darren, but I'm getting married on May 19th.

45:00but we don't really want to share that publicly. So can we start shooting? And I was doing a musical on Broadway at the time also. So the show closed and the next day I started shooting. So the show closed, I think June 1st and the next morning, Monday morning, I started shooting the show. So I was 10 days married. Before that period of your life, how did your dating life compare to Miss Carrie Bradshaw's? It didn't compare. It doesn't compare at all. It was much less colorful, less busy. um i dated but um i would be i would meet someone and date and then that would be a relationship you know it lasted seven years you know you were a year yes did you have a type no no you were no i don't really think i have had it i don't think i have a type do you think you and carrie would have ever dated the same man.

45:54Yes, I do. Big was always sending Carrie mixed messages, obviously. Eye roll. But I feel like we all have that one guy that we gave too many chances to. What was a moment in your dating life where you realized like, okay, I actually like have to cut this off. Like I've given this person too many chances. The first person that I really had a really lovely boyfriend at the end of high school, like really spectacular human being. And then I met somebody else who was also really interesting and exciting and a dazzler and had no interest in being in a relationship. And I was really, really, really young.

46:42And so that like, I was like, what do you mean? Look how, I was so, I just couldn't believe it. So that was an appropriate heartbreak. Like that was a good old fashioned sitting by the phone. Today's going to be different. This is today's day. And, um, but after that I met a fella and, um, you know, he was handsome, but he, he was not the best choice for me. And I think it was, um, too many conversations that were not fruitful. Like they didn't, they were a waste of time. And I actually, I appreciated that he was a beautiful, handsome man that people said, my God, he's handsome. But I discovered I didn't care.

47:48I don't care if we cannot speak. If we can't. Right. You're like, what are we doing? What are we doing? Now you're beautiful, but like at what point am I now going to bed being like, I'm lonely? Yeah. We haven't spoken. When there was nothing, yeah. There's just nothing there. Yeah. I know ladies, like looks only go so far. You need the depth. You need the connection. I think that's so relatable. Humor and intelligence and complexity and surprise. Him being interested in you and asking follow-up questions. Yes, a follow-up question. The simple things. There were just, anyway. Not a bad person.

48:30No, not right for you. Yeah. If you needed relationship advice, who from the core four would you want to call in the show? I suppose if you just want someone to comfort you, you'd call Charlotte. Yes. You know, because she's so naturally... I'm going to say she's maternal because she is actually maternal, the character is, and it's like a source of pride that she can soothe. I think if you want like sound harsh, not sound not harsh, sound firm Miranda. And then if you want some nuance and like you want to open it up to a larger conversation, Carrie.

49:34sex in the city was essentially i feel like the first time on television that women talked about sex and pleasure in a really open way how do you think the conversations on the show actually allowed women to have more sexual agency in real life i mean i i guess what i could tell you is that probably about a year into the show airing, I could see evidence of the way it was impacting New York City, say. You'd see groups of women all of a sudden in tables, leaning into each other, not leaning in, which I can't stand the phrase. But I mean, physically, like clustered and you'd see them in fours walking down a sidewalk, like lined up, like almost like a piece of equipment, which I'd never really, now maybe I was like hypervigilant because of what we were doing all day long.

50:39So, and then just the anecdotal stuff of all the women that just came up to me and said all these years, you know, I was allowed to be me. I have different relationships because what I saw, I wanted. I wanted to talk. Or perhaps more so importantly, the multiples, the thousands who have said to me over the years, that's me. That was me. I never heard somebody say it on television or in cinema, talking with my friends, like the way we talk, the way, the truth of the way we conduct our relationships, which is all intimacy. It's all sharing. It's all needing. It's all helping. It's all truth. It's all hurting each other.

51:29So I think like that combination I'm aware of, but I think the larger, like where does it sit? How has it? I think I'm just like, I'm not able to see it. And I think that's so fair. I also think like it's probably also easy to digest in those moments when you meet a woman on the street and she shares that with you're like that's amazing that's beautiful I'm so happy a piece of work and art that I've put together with a group of people has impacted that way like I think for me I remember the way that comedy was used to lighten the conversation for women around something that historically has been so taboo yeah it was it almost makes you think when you're in your room at night watching it if you're alone or with your friends you're like why do I feel so awkward to talk about something that should be liberating if I want it to be right like if you want to engage in that capacity yeah and I felt like for me even at the genesis of starting call her daddy like I remember that in the back of my head even of like feeling empowered to just go for it because I knew that had impacted the way that I felt comfortable so if I now do a new iteration on my show other women hopefully will continue to feel more liberated and so I also think the lack of shame I think the debriefs with women was such a beautiful element of freedom it gave to women to be like they're why can men just so casually talk about sex like for women if you want you can also be celebrated and enjoy it so there was so many nuances to it which I completely understand it's like where do we begin you could do a million part series on it but I just wanted to tell you like it changed my life so thank you well it's good writing and it's great that they stuck not stuck with it but it's great that they um the writers like felt convinced of the idea and you know then you you do with it what you want yes obviously the show is really based in these beautiful friendships.

53:42And I have to bring up because I've obviously hung out with him. He came on my tour. Mr. Andy Cohen, you guys are close friends. And I feel like people are obsessed with your guys' friendship. It's quite so funny. What is his best quality as a friend? There's multiple. And Andy has talked about this both in his books and on the air. Andy has said yes to everything. He has like gobbled up life. He's tireless. He wants to taste it, experience it, see it, hear it, know it, travel to it. He has a very attractive joie of Eve and he is very proud of his friends. He's very always noting people's accomplishments.

54:42Always. We had a club years and years ago of everybody downtown. It sort of fell apart because people moved and stuff, but it was called the Nitwits. And we would meet and there was the deputy, there was the vice president, there was a president, there was a secretary, there's a treasurer. And then Andy would write the letter to the group, like once a month, it was the newsletter. And the entire beginning, or the majority of the text of the body of the work was everybody's accomplishment over the last month. Everybody's success story didn't have to be a big deal, you know, to the wider world. So that's just his nature.

55:26And I think that's why he loves parenting so much and why it felt so necessary for him to be a parent was to be involved in somebody else's life. Because he, you know, as much as his reputation and his public profile is wrapped around, you know, women that sometimes, you know, fight or behave poorly or whatever and he's a good shitster and he knows how to do it on the show his nature is to be you know up here and uplifting yeah um okay this is a little bit of a pivot but I do want to just quickly ask you because I know a lot of women are listening do you have any advice for women who want kids but are also afraid that they may fall behind in their career what do you say to them I mean I just recently talked about this I think it's like being really in tune with yourself because I think the reality is as a woman it is going to be different but hopefully in a beautiful way different right and I had spoken about with my husband that we thought we wanted to try this past year and now I realize I'm not ready and that's okay and I felt shame and weird about it and I was upset with myself just because I was like how was I so sure about something but really I want to, I have so much more I want to be selfish with.

56:48And I think as women, it's hard to be selfish and it goes against our being. So I want to be selfish a little bit longer. And I think that's okay. So my advice is take your time. I don't think there's ever a perfect time, but listen to yourself and don't allow exterior factors to impact you. Just in general, that's just outside of fertility issues or thinking about planning a family. that's really good advice in my opinion is really good advice I I couldn't agree more and I think the most important thing that I think you said well no it's equally important to other things is um there's no right time because um that's what makes it so confusing for yourself and for so many women you think okay I'll just accomplish this and then it'll be a better time and then maybe you are you do it you accomplish that and you think but wait a second but because of those accomplishments.

57:43Now this opportunity exists and I'm not quite ready because I know I won't be able to be the same professional person. So I would say, first of all, there's not a right time. So you have to kind of keep looking at your life with honesty. And also it's really nice to have somebody to talk about it to with whom you can speak about it. It doesn't have to be a partner because a lot of people are choosing to have families without. Having somebody to talk to, I think that because we, I think we spend a lot of time with fear and anything that's complicated in our heads. And the minute we can talk about it, oh my gosh, it feels so much better.

58:29Such a release. So I think finding somebody to talk to who you trust and, you know, like you said just beating yourself up is is it really isn't in like you're spending so much time trying to make good decisions and write decisions for you and for a potentially have a a baby you know so be decent to yourself about it be decent let's talk about and just like that we're back we're back um what was it like returning and playing carrie because like i was thinking about it you've you were gone obviously for a while on the show and now you guys have been back but like is it weird does it feel the same like how how do you feel well when i first started talking to michael patrick about it it was march of 2020 or april of 2020 and And I started talking to him about potentially doing a podcast because he and I had never talked about what it took to make the show.

59:38And I thought it was a nice idea to kind of do like, or could be potentially interesting to do like an all access backstage pass to like, really, how do you produce this show? and in the course of those conversations he said why aren't we just doing the show again and I said wow I can't believe you said that because every time I had to come up prior to that it just never felt like the right time but when we were all at home um I felt like everybody was looking for home in a way that they weren't experiencing in their home. And that meant their friends, like what people really missed outside of like being with family, which for some people was a really great experience, but they missed their friendships outside of their family.

1:00:32And we thought, well, that's why it's right now because everybody's looking for home and Carrie's always been looking for home. And the way she tries to find that is with her friends. Like, how do they guide you home? And so in theory, it felt really good. It was terrifying. I mean, the table read was so happy. We were all so happy to be together again. Like it was a perfect day, but I was really nervous for the first two weeks, three weeks of our first season. And I am typically anyway at the top of every project. Doesn't matter how many times I've played a part. You just start constantly like, is this how I walk?

1:01:16Is this how I talk? Is this how many? No. Is this how she walks? Is this how she talks? You know, does she run this way? What feels right and correct now? So that's just the way I examine everything anyway. But - Did you watch any of the old Sex and the City to remember anything? No. I've never seen most of it. I've never watched the show. I watched it in the beginning. And there was a period in which I was getting dailies and rough cuts from the studio. But I finally begged off because A, I wasn't keeping up. Michael Patrick wanted, he's like, you've got to watch, you've got to give me notes, you've got to watch it.

1:01:58And then I realized that I wasn't being helpful because it was so unpleasant for me to watch myself that I couldn't see the work. and that's not a good producing partner. I was able to be a partner in lots of other ways. So I would say easily by second season, I wasn't watching at all. I've never seen almost anything. I saw the final episode ever because Michael had a screening of it live as it was happening live, which was pretty incredible. But that's just was an opportunity for all of us to be together. And I think the only time I understood that the show was in the world in the way it was, because we had been so kind of purposely cloistered from too much chatter, you know, peripheral, blah, blah, blah.

1:02:51So was it came home from seeing that episode and that was season six. So I hadn't seen almost anything up to that point after season one. And we turned on the, we were just, the news was on and under the, what do they call that? Yeah, like the banner. Yes. News banner. It said, Carrie ends up with Big on CNN. And I was like, they know who Carrie is and they know if they say Big, what that means. And John, maybe they said John. And I only then thought, wow, that's making a big assumption that there's going to be people in the broader world that know who Carrie is. They do, honey. Oh, they do. Did you, of all the years that you were away from her, did you miss her or were you for a while at ease with like, it's okay?

1:03:48I always feel good when we stop because I feel as if Michael has been so clever about, like if somebody said to me, do you miss her? I'd say like, no, I think she's well. You know, we'd leave a season. I'm going to cry. Or a movie and I would think, but she was, she seemed really well last time I saw her. you know so I always felt like he left her in in not in good hands because she's in her own hands but having sorted things out and finding a kind of contentment that is sustains a person and those friendships I trusted would remain even if they change and they do um so I didn't miss her I always felt that Michael that we you know did right by her in this moment because I feel like it changes right what do you hope your legacy will be within the sex in the city franchise era gosh I never thought about me um um, pose, I hope the work is good.

1:05:06Like I really do care about the work. And I think I care because, um, of the audience. Like I feel such a, a debt of gratitude that will never be able to be paid back properly. So the work matters because for all these years, people have paid to have us in their home. They've actually paid to have us in their home. And they were the gang of 10 million from the beginning. It was slow, but they were as much a part of the show as we were. And so I feel for me, the work that has been so important to me is in large part about the audience's work and time spent with us, which is equally as important.

1:06:08And the two cannot, we can't exist without them and the commitment they've made. And so therefore, I made a commitment that I would care about every little detail. And some people make fun of me on the set for the kind of vigilance around detail. But I think it all adds up and the audience sees and knows it all better than I do. So - It's beautiful. Last question. Okay. Really? Oh, that's so sad. I know. I know. I could stay here all day with you. No, no, no, you gotta go home. In what ways has playing Carrie Bradshaw shaped you as Sarah Jessica Parker? Well, I suppose in ways that don't really matter, in ways that matter.

1:06:58So sometimes on a seemingly surfacy level and then more so in ways that matter, the idea of breaking rules. I think I learned very early that Carrie is a rule breaker and when she's doing it sartorially with clothing, it's people love it. And then sometimes when she does it in her interpersonal relationships, it's been not as successful or it has been because she was willing to risk convention and be herself. So I would say I came to look at rules different because I was somebody that always followed rules. Like I really did believe in them because I felt that they were like a kind of constant that was good for us.

1:07:50And Carrie didn't always, and there was a lot that made her life better by being completely herself. But I'm wary, you know, I wasn't unaware of the ways in which it was harmful, even if briefly. um so that and i would say that though none of us have the time that she has had to devote to friendship um i so admire the way that friendships are like foundationally the most important thing and a lot of us have spent a lot of time working and i always have had friends that were important to me, but I was envious of the way, the time and the way she took care of those friendships. And it made me want to be a better friend.

1:08:48It taught me, even if I wasn't able to mimic it, because life doesn't give us time to have lunch all the time with our friends. No. But even if you put aside that kind of luxury of time and leisure, it's still like, Like it's still something to aim for. I agree. I cannot thank you enough for sitting down with me. I feel like I'm in a dream right now and I don't know when I'm going to wake up. But like this has truly been such an honor. Like, again, I just have to reiterate it. Like from me starting Call Her Daddy to now actually getting to sit down with you. I have chills. I've had so many chills throughout this interview.

1:09:28Thank you so much for giving me the time and sitting down with me. Thank you for having me. Thank you. And I'm really, really proud of you. Thank you. And it sounds like you're so healthy about the way that you're looking at your life. Thank you. And I'm sure it's a huge source of comfort to a lot of women that listen to you who are also contemplating in their lives some similar things. But also, even if they're not, it's like guideposts. So thank you for the way that you've connected with millions and millions of women and men. Yes, men. We didn't forget about you. And thank you for having me and being so hospitable and lovely.

1:10:12It was a real treat. We did it. And safe travels home. Woo! Thank you. We did it.

1:10:30Thank you.