Tana Mongeau: Internet Lore, Sobriety & Finding Love

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1:16The wipes are perfect also for multitasking so you can just get back to your day-to-day with ease and with a better vibe. Thanks to Clorox, we can have spring cleaning and they can get us through it, right? We don't need to stress. Thank you, Clorox. Okay, so shop Clorox Disinfecting Wipes now at walmart.com slash Clorox Wipes. What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Tana Mojo, welcome to Call Her Daddy. Alex Cooper, thank you for having me. Very exciting. It's so exciting to me and I think that it's really crazy our trajectory We like we have to talk about it Even just the last episode of call her daddy that I was on and the beginning the guests like there's so much the last week of our life I know there's so much here.

2:05Let's tell people how we got here Because people are probably like what's going on. Yeah, what's going on? Yeah, is this unexpected? I don't know or expected That's really interesting. Maybe a little bit of both to me, but like I don't know I'm just in this era of life where I'm trying you're a businesswoman and there's a lot to learn and there I think in every other era of life I missed out on that connection with you and like just it's funny even we got lunch the other day and I sit down and I was like do you hate me and you're like no I was like Tana we I don't we don't even like well how would I just that unwell Vegas mind you it's like why am I asking her this but I guess it was just that like you and I had never gotten to have a moment that was off camera we'd never gotten to have a moment where you both weren't on or like even the first call her daddy I was like I needed rehab not call her daddy let's talk about that it was such a weird moment so Tana dms me and it's like will you go to lunch with me and I'm like so ominous too so ominous no contacts and I'm like of course like and I'm trying to think like what does she want to talk about but I also kind of want and so then we get there and you were in a little button down you were so wholesome it was I was like I'll wear my button down you you ate your pigs in a blanket there is something about scarfing pigs in a blanket across from you that is just some things will never change but we talked about so much at that lunch and I felt like it was the first time we got to really bond it was have a moment and I was like oh wow like you know what I mean, like, I don't want to be like, oh, well, she was a person.

3:41You're always a person. But like, we'd never been able to like strip down and just really discuss our like ideals. With no cameras. Yeah. And I think that that was like the moment where we had such a fabulous conversation. We talked about a multitude of things. One being like how much we have grown since we met. The fact that we podcasted together over, it's been over six years. That's crazy. That's really crazy. But like the growth is, I think, evident. I mean I don't have silver hair anymore yes oh my god and my tracks aren't out for the first time in my life like I just I needed to go darker there's so many there's so many little things where it's aesthetically and internally we both needed to what it's no and it's like what am I supposed to do with this I told you we're in demolition yeah first of all I walk in but I have to say there's something and I don't know if I can say this word on call her daddy but there's something so cunty you can about someone walking in and you'd be like we're undergoing demolition right now like the only demolition i've ever had was interpersonal like you know the only demolition i ever had was like in my own personal life doing like everything and i'm like it looks like it really looks crazy so thank you for understanding but i feel so at home in construction weirdly i'm under construction always personally at all times so anyway so we leave that lunch and we're like oh my god there's so much to do business wise personal wise friendship wise but like let's get you on the podcast because yeah i also think like we deserve to like rewrite our digital footprint a little bit I agree.

5:05But I also, I think that like a lot of people had a lot to say about our original episode of Call Her Daddy. Let's take it back. Yeah. Yes. Let's take it back. Let's go back. So to anyone that's not familiar or our original, original, there's so much there. That's what I'm saying. So to anyone who's not chronically online, almost a decade ago when Call Her Daddy was started, Tana Mojo was supposed to be the first ever guest. And aren't you just so happy I wasn't? like like sometimes the universe does work things out in a certain way like I don't know if you would have gotten to like the Kamala Harris's of it all had that happened you know maybe fair but no no but I want to hear this story from your perspective so I'm at Barstool we had never had a guest yeah we were like should we have a guest I was such a huge fan of yours I was like watching your YouTubes I was like Tana it would be the perfect person like I was very gluck at that time you were so glad I was beyond you were so on brand for us we were so but look we were so congruent with our brands then and now we're both a little bit more brand safe now yeah and we've grown but at the time you then slept through the interview yes well I was sick but I will say at the time as well like who gives a fuck yeah tell me the story from your perspective I was touring and I had a day off and like even just my team at the time you can imagine what my assistants look like we were all just hammered and all of those things and yeah factually I just like I felt like shit and I was like I'm so sorry I can't make this and whatever but maybe if you were doing a little better to your immune system you would have shown up and like also now it's like maybe if you're touring don't agree on your one-off day and like obviously this was 10 years ago and I was so bad with timing then and like just so so bad like and I had to learn that lesson for 10 more years to come honestly but to be fair and I said this to you at lunch you guys it really was the best blessing and it breaks my heart like no no but when I look back at all of those moments where I just fell so short and I was such a piece of shit in so many ways.

6:59I know it's 10 years ago and I know I've changed, but it's just like, you want to go back and shake that girl. For sure. And like now looking back, like it's really not that deep, but at the time being like such a huge fan, it, it definitely hurt, but no, but like valid. And then when I took the show over and did it solo, then you came on the show. Yes. And I think that there is something to be said about the fact that like you gave me a little bit of a proper joking hazing. and it's like I also was coming off of all of the Jake Paul shit at that time I was also a drunk mess you came and you interviewed me while I was living in the clout house no in my house was like eight floors that I didn't need to be living and I needed rehab once again you need to slow down because I will never forget please and I I've forgotten a lot so please refresh me so first of all you completely forgot and I told you this and you were like we did we went to catch the night before I interviewed you on Caller Daddy.

7:57And now I remember, like, I remember the paparazzi photos, which is such an embarrassing, pathetic way to remember so much of your life in paparazzi photos. But, like, I have no idea what happened in that restaurant. Tana, I know. I know. You guys, so for context, I flew out to LA. I'm so excited. I'm going to have, like, kind of like my first round of guests on for Caller Daddy. And my now husband, Matt, dropped me off at catch. and he's like so who are you going to see at catch and I was like Tana Mojo and he was like okay he drops me off I walk in and it's like you and I think like I forget who's there it may have been Trevi it may have been Ashley I forget there was like a couple people there and I was solo riding with you and your squad and we talked all of no look at you you don't remember I genuinely feel like somewhat like that's it's sad to an extent where I'm just like how much of my life I don't remember but I get to I get to get it in bits and pieces let me tell you so here we are so here we are we're having a spicy tuna roll and we're talking we're talking about how you know you had flaked on call our daddy and we're talking about the interview and how like i'm gonna bring it up and we're gonna make a joke out of it and it will be so good for clicks or whatever and there's paparazzi downstairs and the whole thing so like you were like on board with this whole plan yes so i show up the next day to the clout house and to anyone that is remembering now with me like clout house hype house like we saw all of this online but to walk into a actual tiktok influencer youtuber home i was so intimidated it was so funny it was so scary there were so many people i opened the front door i had no team at the time i had like one freelancer with me and then one person who had worked with me at barstool and we walk in people i've seen online walking round filming everyone's filming 24 7 well because i my house was just my house but then the hype house was next door and they'd somehow acquired my door codes which is just what in the fucking simulation are you and like at one point post malone and his friends were next door and it was like this whole conglomerate where everyone just walked into other people's houses people would walk in unclothed it was like i and at this time as well it was such a juxtaposition because my parents were suing me for everything that i had so i'm in the lowest point of my life while i'm trying to present that like because at that time too that was the epitome of success to me to live in this clout house and live in this thing and like how lost you have to be to think that this is the epitome of success and like just what a mind fuck and it's like once again like maybe you you don't need to call her daddy maybe you need like intensive intensive emdr therapy but you were you were amazing on that episode and i remember sitting on the black couch that you and brooke end up doing canceled on and i'm sitting there and i'm like waiting for you and I think like Amari was in the room and a couple of people are like setting up the cameras and I'm like so intimidated.

10:41I'm so nervous. I'm like so funny. I like perceived it so different. I think like I was so nervous. I was so nervous. And I knew I had like wronged you before. And like I wanted you. I wanted you to like me. I wanted you to like me. Like I was a fan. I watched your story times. I watched you in Vegas. Like I watched you growing up on my screen. So I was shitting my pants. And then we do the episode. And I remember you told like the craziest sex stories and you also no idea no idea and i remember you told also like really really understandably like horrific shit about your parents and what you were going through lightly and it was great and we were like this is gonna get so many views and it did and it did so well but then people were very divided they were either like alex you went too hard at tana like okay so she missed the call her daddy first episode like let it go or people were like yeah tana's a fucking disaster like fuck that bitch and it was like oh my god wait guys we were kind of playing it up for the cameras and also like anytime anyone has ever brought that up to me like i think that a lot of the things you were saying in my opinion were a public opinion and were public questions i was such a disaster in so many ways and like god forbid a journalist is doing some boots on the ground trying to get to the bottom of it and also like yes i missed that but it was a pivotal moment like for you and everything that had happened before that I had missed that and we had never talked about it on camera and like I stand on exactly why your approach was that way you know yeah so crazy also the way the internet because then I think that I went on for a long time to be like does Alex Cooper even like me and I like really lived with this reservation because of the internet commentary I know and it's and it's like because I was again I was so like you were valid in everything that you were saying at that time to where I was like what a it almost was a good thing to have you ask me these questions and why I was thinking this way and haze me a little bit for the thing that I had done wrong and it's so funny how much the internet can like do the thing that it does it's so wild and then Unwell Vegas happens and I'm like oh we're cool because it's been so long and we've both grown so much so I think like what we're I guess trying to say is like our origin story was very complex and it felt tumultuous maybe to the internet but I think you and I both always had this thing where we were like I want to know you and I really fuck with you but the only fucking time that we've ever really been able to hang out is with cameras in our face every and like we're both on and that's such a thing like even on wall vegas you're dealing with like a million things and i i get that you know what i mean and i was so but i also think i've been saying this a lot in my life right now that i think the universe protected me from fostering a lot of relationships until i was sober and capable of fostering those relationships and to be the like i'm so happy that this is happening now versus any other time and obviously we were both chaotic and we would have gotten along about the Glucks and all the different things.

13:30Of course, like I think we would have gotten along at any point in time. You know what I mean? But I had a little catching up to do and I'm happy that it's now, I guess. Well, I'm happy too. And I even just felt at that lunch, like I agree with you. I don't think you and I would have been not only capable, but just like uninterested in the depth of like just one lunch together. And we were both like almost crying at the end. We're like, oh my God, there's so much to discuss and so many similarities and differences and things to learn from each other. So I guess I'd always lived with this wondering of like would we get along like would we like would we find things commonalities would we like do we see the world in like a similar way or like left at lunch and we were like and I was like this is really cool to see I was so like amazed to see such a human human being across from me you know what I mean and I'm sure you felt the same way you had never seen me in a human being light and I was like it's very cool to just she's she's just a girl so now i want to kind of go through oh it's so fun to reminisce this is so fun um i think when i look back at the beginning of my career and you've been doing this for so long i did a lot of things in the beginning days understandably to gain attention of course we have to put that in i know that was so funny i feel like cole sprouse the way i'm like the digital version of the the hot box tana fully huffing and you know i'm done you know but you going like this like like gracefully queen elizabeth style there's a photo of you over here like full regal that's what i'm trying to give about my absolute problem i need a patch i really tried to like i i did a lot of things for attention is basically what i'm saying and i we're getting there um and i think a lot of it also was because like that day and age of the internet with youtube and everything like it was so you had to kind of do that to break into the industry.

15:20And there was this feeling of scarcity, I think, and this fear of like, if I don't do this, someone else will. And I don't really know a lot about your upbringing or where you came from, but I speaking for myself, I guess I lived in a lot of fear. I fear was my only number one biggest motivator across my career at all times. Like if I don't do this and I don't say this crazy thing and I don't do this, someone else is going to and I'm going to be gone tomorrow. And quite frankly, I'm going to be back at home with my parents like you know what I mean I think I had to like live that way I felt like I had to live that way for so long and I think like you're being rewarded for it you are I was gonna say there's a weird thing where it's like the drive of fear as fucked up as it is like it's probably why you have gotten as far as you have as opposed to someone who's been kind of like handed everything to them like I don't need to try that hard like you have grinded you have you have gotten canceled you've gotten uncanceled you have gone through different phases like you have literally gotten through so many different eras of your life in the public eye yeah and so I want to ask you going back a little bit like what were some types of things when you got to LA that you were doing just for views that you can now look back and be like oh my god like I was really it was hard almost for me to differentiate it I think I became so engulfed in that person and I think it snowballed as well.

16:41I mean, also it all comes back to the story times, right? Like I'm using these salacious titles and these crazy things and I'm learning that people want to see this and I'm like blurring those lines and like I'm praying that an Uber driver gives me a bad experience so that I can pay my bills to get away from my parents and hopefully get emancipated and like it all started there and then it just snowballs and I almost think that that was that time, you know? My first friend in LA was FaZe Banks and like we did foster a great friendship and stuff like that. But I mean, same thing that he was calling that the Cloud House and they were all doing that and the Face Clan was doing that.

17:16And then I moved on to meeting the Paul brothers who like definitely had a very like similar mindset and stuff. I was dating Bella Thorne and like everyone was obsessed with that. Like there are just so many, it's a culmination of a million things that it truly just became who I was. I lost myself in LA over, you know, the course of time, I guess. I think that's such a good point. like how you just said like you were praying for a bad uber driver experience i think that any no like literally tana i think any single person who makes content now i think at any degree you go into it and you start making things and it's so fun and then you have that one day and you can't really pinpoint when it was where you're like but if i do this it will make for such a good video yes and then once you i remember i literally was on raya i met a guy and i flew to paris before even meeting him I I was like out of my mind I would have never done that but I had a vlog camera on a YouTube channel at the time right before Caller Daddy and I was like I want to do this I would have never gotten on the plane yeah if I didn't have a YouTube channel yeah so like I was doing things for the story yeah that then motivates your life in a way that's like you're kind of like a prisoner to the content of course and just to this mindset that like I have to build this lore and I have to do these things and it's like all of the things that I look back on you know what I mean it got all the way to the point of like a fake wedding it got all the way to the point and it just like I I can't really differentiate so many moments in between all of it were genuine you know what I mean like I did love and care about so many of these people and I still stuck with my ride or dies from Vegas from day one I didn't fully become this like sociopath view monster but so much of like what I was doing was pushing that boundary in that envelope and like I even think about just like Alex Warren and I would be like let's get a thousand hissing cockroaches and do this like it just it was like I don't know it just became who I was and then I woke up one day and was like oh my god I don't I don't want to do that anymore you so as you get older and your frontal lobe develops it wasn't until like 25 or 26 where I was just like I want to be a person with so much more depth and substance and I realized the weight of my platform and like and it's so hard to get off the like the roller coaster because you also like I didn't start my career in LA and like at the time in my career there wasn't like New York City influencers so it kind of like was we were like siloed in New York and then there was like Barstool boys but like it was kind of like you guys had so many people to help you if you turned left or right there were so many people doing her right yeah and so everyone was doing it so it felt probably also probably normal it really did and I talk about this a lot as well now that especially since short form content has started to happen so many of these influencers now as they blow up you know caa and uta and all of these talent agencies are ready to help them and like they've seen all the mistakes of all of the other creators so they know what not to do there now well everyone has a pr person so they know what not to do and it was none of that it was boots on the ground journalism in the regard that like i'm not gonna sit here and be like we pioneered it like that's fucking dramatic but like it was figuring everything out for the first time and it was convincing these brands that influencers were just as valuable as a Facebook ad it was like making the mistake and then having to make the apology video and under learning that culture and like apology video oh my god it was what a I get a cigarette I'm like back in my day like just all of these things were being figured out for the first time can we talk about though though because controversy I think that inevitably and unfortunately it is obvious that the more controversial something is the more people are going to pay attention online to it and you learn that and if you're not in a good headspace you start to like compartmentalize the hate and just think that any attention is good attention and when you have a million people around you kind of like feeding into that notion it can be such a scary snowball is there anything that you look back on in those days something that you're like that was so just like controversial at the time and I just knew it would do well for views.

21:22But like, I'm like, what the fuck was I doing? It's so hard, Alex, to give you anecdotal answers because it was everything. And it almost wasn't, one thing that I will say is that so much of it was not, like, I'm not gonna give myself the credit that I was this like mastermind scheming so much. It was almost just the way I was living. I think that I was just, I guess the difference is is that a lot of other people possessed a lot of discretion and they knew like maybe this like party last night where we all did a bunch of drugs I'm not going to talk about it online tomorrow because I have discretion and I care about my reputation and I have self-worth and I have parents right like all of these things whereas I was like no one's doing this and I'm just gonna share it all and like you know what I mean like almost like a who cares mindset right there were no boundaries for you it was just kind of like anything goes at all Exactly I lived with an anything goes I lived without discretion up until maybe 72 hours ago That's a joke okay anything random Comes to mind if you could erase something from the Internet what would it be of yourself I've definitely had nights where I stay up late And I think God how much better would it Be if even the paparazzi or team Bryce on God Was erased from the internet but at the same Time And just like the Jaw swinging like You know I can look back there's a paparazzi video of me going I hate people I love them like the paparazzi had asked me I was leaving catch honestly it was right around the same time as you and I had gotten that dinner and the paparazzi had asked me how do you feel about Addison Rae and Bryce Hall's breakup and I say I hate people I love them and then at the time I was very close with Josie Canseco and for some reason how fucked up I was I thought that Jose Canseco her father was my best friend so I'm talking about take me out to the ball game.

23:10I'm talking about how Jose Canseco is my best friend. And I can look back at the, the, like those moments and be like, that is objectively hilarious. And like, I don't want that erased. But then my jaw continued to swing for a little too long, you know, where it's like, I, you know, but at the same time, like I I'm a firm believer in the butterfly effect all the way down to like the shoes I'm wearing today and the sweatsuit you're wearing today. Like that, like That changed the entire course of our day. I think that every little thing got me to the person that I am. And for so long, I was a person that I was not proud of.

23:44For so long, I was a person that I absolutely hated. For so long, I was such a fucking mess that every single mistake or embarrassing thing taught me something, whether it was heavy criticism, whether it was like, you are so fucking embarrassing, get it together, whether it was like, and I just, I get scared when I think about what if I erase that one thing and I continued to be that person? I would be so sad if I was still that person. That's such a good point too, Tana. Like we see on the internet, the team Bryce on God moment. And everyone's like, this is so funny. This is the biggest meme of the year.

24:16Holy shit. But you are also looking back being like, oh my God. Why were we team Bryce on God? Like let's be team God on God. Maybe find God. And it's funny because I actually was sober in that video, which makes it so much worse. But I mean, Bender the night before, Bender right after. I'm just saying like like I was like oh you were fully so you're like no no no just like in that very moment yes and that but no but I think it's more so one of those things where I was just lost you know what I mean like just who I was and the things I wanted to attend and the people I wanted to surround myself with videos and you're like oh my god I see someone that's so lost and hurting and then the internet though is kind of perpetuating like this is so funny Tana and so it's like should she do it again should she keep going and it's like when do you eventually be like I have to stop with my identity so much in that way because at the time I think even you're saying so lost and hurting I think I didn't know that I was hurting I think that I like I I now know I was hurting and I was numbing all of these things that had happened to me and just continuing to like get number and number and abuse substances more and numbing all these things that happened to me but in my head I was like I am I'm a party girl I'm Timu Lindsay Lohan let's go like which is like and then people love that image and you start the wine brand and you're throwing the parties and you're gathering the lore that then works so amazing for this podcast that you're doing and like all of these things that you like convince yourself that no one's going to love you if like you stop all of these things and my identity became so tied to it to where I thought that not only that I loved being that but that that's who I had to be or no one would listen and like all of those things.

25:52Tana and all of those things we totally will tip over and start crying wait let's talk about the criticism because in a in a way and correct me if i'm wrong but like i think a lot of people i've talked to especially in this industry like you kind of start to dissociate in a way where you look back and you're like i don't really remember certain things because you're just like i'm going along and i'm surviving and i don't know what's happening or you're just like blacking it out and you're compartmentalizing right but then people are criticizing you and heavily heavily and i want rightfully so i want you to though like take me to your headspace when you would get criticism online because a lot of people watching this like will have never experienced it at the level that you have where people are like saying things about you how would you handle that and how has that evolved for you yeah it's definitely evolved a lot but i think that for a long time the big things did stick like you know what i mean like Like TanaCon, for example.

26:55Like I spent an entire week at my best friend's apartment sobbing on the floor, reading everything, knowing that the whole world hated me and that I was a fucking failure and that I failed my fans. And like, I have goosebumps right now. I will never, it's a part of me that will never get over that failure because I failed my fans so tangibly and directly and stuff. However, I like, that criticism stuck with me. And I knew that I needed to ensure that all of my business partners, like even though they were saying yes, if they were actually capable of doing things that you couldn't just trust people if they said they were going to do something.

27:23And I didn't know that lesson before. And I like learned that maybe I need more people around me that will say no to me, which I think was a longer, less took me a little longer to learn. But like the big things did really stick. You know what I mean? Even just like more anecdotal things where when like I had bailed on BFF's podcast, Dave Portnoy came online and said, don't do business with her. She's a fucking bozo. Like that one stuck with me where I was like, I don't want to be that girl. And then the substances were allowing me to continue to like fail and whatever, but I internalized them and was doing my best to grow.

27:56How did you eventually learn the difference between like being canceled versus being held accountable? Yes, I have always shared everything. So it's not like I have this fake personality online that people were criticizing. They were criticizing me and who I was to my core. So like when I, you know what I mean? When I would receive those, it was like, okay maybe maybe i should like take some notes and refine right like and i'm not saying to like internalize everything that the internet says because i think things can be ostracized too far both ways the good and the bad and if you place too much value in either of those things you lose who you are and who your value is and there is discretion between that and i think that that's why it's so important to ensure that like your inner circle when you're is so amazing i'm so i I think I would be dead without my best friends who are my family, my chosen family around me, holding me accountable though.

28:52Like not a bunch of yes men, but like ensuring me that like there is a real world. My new obsession these days is touching the fuck out of grass. I love grass. It is the best thing ever. You're in Hawaii, girl. My boyfriend helped me with that so much. Like just seeing his outlook on the world, like just him understanding that this is just this one bubble that I live in and there's this whole big world out there and like trees and scenery are beautiful and connections with family are awesome and deep conversations are awesome and knowing knowing who you are is awesome and like that is this is the first era in my life where I my team and I like we my like head of content guy he's also one of my best friends and we've been friends for a long time we finally gotten the chance to like work on my new project together and him and I have really spearheaded the phrase towards this entire era of intention versus attention.

29:45And it just being the very first time that that's what matters and that our intentions are so pure and that like we know who the fuck we are and we're not doing this to like garner attention because that's also the thing too is like when you are towing that line of garnering attention, you are also making yourself so much more susceptible to walking that tightrope of flying too close to the sun and all of the things. It can get really fucking dangerous. I think that you're known obviously for being so authentic online so I do want to hear a couple of your takes today I want to get your opinion I was doing my ooh to her before and she was like are you okay like are you are you giving Jennifer what are you doing what is that new there's definitely like some spectrum that I'm on right like I love a vocal stim you're just like going okay let's get your take it can be good or bad opinion on a few things okay what is your take on the current state of extravagant brand trips?

30:41Have they lost the plot? Wow. I mean, I think as long as people are doing good, where we're at in society right now, just showing off opulence and that being all that you are is so, that was a big lesson that I learned across this time. I had a psychic actually tell me that I would go so heavily into philanthropy. and the psychic told me this at a time in my life where I was like absolutely not I want to go to poppy tonight what the fuck are you talking about maybe I'll do philanthropy when I share something under my fingernail with someone else that says that's as philanthropic as I'll ever get and under my fingernail okay yes yep and now as I get to this point in life I'm like I realize how important it is if you have something to give how much you need to give back and stuff I think that now right now if someone's like do you want to go on this brand trip with this crop top brand with these girls and like take they're all gonna be taking a thousand tequila shots and like that's the whole point I'm saying no I think it's the first time in my life where I'm saying no for so long I was so excited to like say yes to everything because I mean if anything came across my desk I was just stoked something was coming across my desk right like so it's now you're able to kind of discern like does this is this for attention or is this intentional like do I is this actually meaningful to me and make sense for me right now in my life yes and do i morally feel like this is a good or right thing to do do i feel like this is helpful for the greater good either of what i'm doing with my platform or the bigger picture of the world today that needs so much help and sometimes it just takes like literally growing up yes like if you're 22 and you're getting invited on the brand trip you're like what what why would i know who cares what people think i look like let's take a shot at turks and cacos like that was me for so long and now i'm just like you know They don't need it.

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35:05I'm the biggest believer until I die. Like she could run me over. like I could be in the road and she no pun intended on the road I could be in the road and she could run me over I love her to death and I think even just that the Haley and Selena shit was so disheartening to me because it's like god forbid they both they both want to just run off into the sunset and live their lives like it was so ostracized that there's no other way and over a man and I love Justin Bieber but still over a man that there's no other possible ending to this story than these two women having to burn each other's houses down it's so sad to me it is so sad and I loved Haley's response being or she said like save your apologies the therapy's already paid for I was like babe honestly good for you god forbid you also like want to stay with the person and heal and grow with them and like she did that she stuck by his side and rode with him maybe at times where he wasn't the best but like that shows that you're a ride or die and that you love this person and you want to be a mom and you want to release some fucking peptide lip gloss.

36:11That our mom, like. Let the bitch live. Like, it just. It's so true. Everyone switches up so fast. It's like, it's so. It's whiplash nowadays. Yeah, but I also respect Haley so much for kind of being like, save it. Like, I don't need, whether you love me or hate me, I don't really care anymore. Like, I've had to find peace because you guys have bullied me for so fucking long. Yes, and people just like, oh my God, like, wanting to do that. Like, I know that you can write off. Like, there's so many people that are going to be like, she's famous. She's married to Justin Bieber. she's fine but like what that what that does to your psyche people like even her og met gallo where people were like screaming at her on the carpet awful things like what that does to your psyche feeling like you can't leave your house without even in like little scandals of mine i would feel that way where you're like leaving the house and you're at the coffee shop and the barista's looking at you and you're like they hate me they hate me they hope i die like they hate me so much and they probably don't and don't know and whatever i can't imagine on that level of your psyche of like she is a very strong woman yeah and it's just it would never happen to um it's such a good point um do you think people have lost their sense of individualism because of social media and the constant trend cycle to an extent yes right like i ordered a jelly cat the other day and it's just like why why did i order that jelly cat okay like and buster's gonna to chew it up in three hours it doesn't like there is definitely yes but I also really try to look at social media not through a general lens of everyone and everything is awful because it's very easy to do that nowadays it is it's and there are still so many creators that are bringing individualism and philanthropy and good things and all of these things to the forefront of their pages and I try to even like a Julia Fox is a great example of someone who is just so Individually stands Ten toes down on like Their opinions And all of those things I love her There are the Julia Foxes Of the world Who remind us That we can just like Have our own opinions And be individual And I try to just focus on that Otherwise I'll like Spiral No you'll go and say And it's true Like sometimes it is fun To participate in trends But then it is also like If you're doing it Every fucking time Then it's maybe like Slowly roll Like what is your actual Own fashion sense What is your own actual beliefs Like are you just regurgitating What you're scrolling every day And opinions as well I think that I struggle With that a lot Like you know what I mean because I always want to share my honest opinion.

38:31And sometimes it's not, you know. Let's talk about canceled. Yes. So you had such a presence on the internet, YouTube. Everyone knew you for your story times. You, like we just kind of talked about earlier, you had evolved so intensely in different categories and different moments and marriages and relationships and all the marriages. And then you launched this podcast and it felt like kind of a pretty big shift in your career and your life at the time. The biggest. Did it feel that way? I don't think I was as aware of it at the time, but when I look back now, and I just want to say something that I don't feel like I've said yet in this kind of time of my life in an interview.

39:17If I had a fucking time machine and I could go back, I would do it all over again, every time, just the same. like I it was crazy and wild and it's funny even now I'm like realizing that there are moments that I don't even really remember there's a part of me that's like I kind of just like Brooke and I woke up one day and we had one of the biggest podcasts in the world and there was there wasn't a lot of like you know I didn't I don't even know how it happened but it's because it was just so authentic and it was so authentic to me at the time and what her and I had like I think it did save my career in so many ways had I just kept drinking and trying to renegade and like not you know what I mean had this long form thing with this incredible dynamic with this other person I have no idea where I would like be now you know and I think also for anyone that lived under a rock like you and Brooke your co-host at the time like you were either weighing in on internet culture um and drama specifically or I think more towards the end like you then also started to kind of expose it a little bit like you would bring stories forward our personal lives yes of your personal lives and just the things that we were experiencing because that that was so much of what we were doing going out and doing all of the like crazy things and canceled also provided this crazy life for us like where we're looking at each other at like the people's choice awards and we're like watching like jennifer aniston or whoever like present more like how the hell did this happen you know what I mean when because I relate in a lot of ways to like early collar daddy days felt a little bit like what you're describing of there almost wasn't a moment to be like wait it's the biggest show in the world oh my god like it's happening just keep pushing your fucking foot down on the gas and just go go go that's how I felt for sure in the beginning like did you ever start to have concern a little bit of like oh bringing drama and how many views we're getting like are we crossing a line at all like where did you start to have those conversations if at all I think that for a while we were just like you know what I mean talking shit about our real lives and all of the things that were happening I will say that something so beautiful about our dynamic was that Brooke always had a little bit more discretion than me even in the craziest times where it's like Hannah don't fucking say that and that was what made the on-camera dynamic so great and like helped so much in real life and it was like this perfect balance and stuff like that I think that for the first time that I personally felt ever across canceled felt a repercussion on my mental health of the things that I say you know because for so long even just pre-canceled across all of canceled I was saying anything and just keeping moving and it like it was negatively affecting my mental health but I was numbing it out with drinking all the things that I personally was saying and stuff like that but the first time where I was like whoa this may not be like so good for me was right after I had come for Alyssa Violet I had talked about my experience with Cody Ko because it like went out into the world and I had said that on stage like flippantly on tour never thinking it would go out into the world and I was going everywhere in public and people had so much to say and I couldn't open my phone at all without seeing good or bad things like just whatever you know what I mean and I was like whoa and then we did dial it back and it was okay again later you know what I mean but yeah I think even towards the end there would be moments especially Brooke again was always better with the discretion where we'd be on tour and she'd be like actually wait I want to stop telling the story on stage like wait just growing up just naturally like growing up a little bit that's what I was thinking about and starting to care about other like people's like you know what I mean lives yes and how it's gonna affect them because I was gonna say there's such a huge risk reward that comes with over sharing on the internet right the reward is the views and the people and and the consumers being like more more give us more oh my god this is intoxicating oh my god tea drama oh my god but then the risk is behind the scenes you can be burning bridges and like maybe fucking with people's lives a little bit not saying some of them didn't deserve it but just saying like there's relationships that are getting a little fucked up in all this i would couldn't walk into me personally at least could not like I couldn't walk into a room in Hollywood without either a feeling like everyone was afraid of me or be like it's so funny at that time too I was still so delusional because I would walk into a room and then some celebrity or some person would be like and don't put this on your podcast and I would be like why would they say that like I wouldn't why just why does everyone always like say that to me and it's like what Tana next week you're like so anyway so it's at this Hollywood yes like yes and just oh my god but I can't stress you enough also like canceled saved my life in so many ways because as much as we're talking about all of the crazy stuff that was said and the repercussions of that at the same time while all of that was happening we also fostered this community of women that were so incredible and showed up for us everywhere and cared about we had to say and cared about every last intricacy of our life and like just every we couldn't go anywhere and it makes me want to cry when I like start to say it but it's like we could and I said this on the last episode but it will forever make me emotional that we couldn't go anywhere for years without some girl stopping us and saying like the canceled podcast saved my life and changed my life and made me feel like I'm maybe more of a wild girl or I had a shitty relationship with my mom and it transferred into my love life or like all of these things you know like I don't I don't ever want to look at it I don't look at it through a bad lens because you know no you made a lot of people feel seen.

44:59And I think my life had just changed so drastically. Like I really I'll never forget the canceled episode where I came home from Hawaii. McCullough was in my living room. He didn't know like anything about my life and he had just flown out and he was down to take a gamble. And we'd had like Meghan Trainor on. And I remember I was watching like McCullough meet Meghan Trainor. And then we shoot like another episode and I sit down across from Brooke and I'm like, I just met the love of my life. And I still was very chaotic as a person and just in a very dark time and of drinking and substance abuse and all of my traumas culminating together to make me this person that I hated myself and you know just all of these different things but life started to change and I started to want to go to Hawaii more and like started caring less about like feeling this need to come online and like you know go on a rampage about someone or something Or like foster the lore in LA Like at the Hollywood parties And all the things Yeah like how now You sitting here How has it changed The way that you approach Involving yourself In internet drama Or talking on other people's Situations Or your own personal situations You know what I think it is now Is obviously a lot of discretion Like we've been talking about Where like I'll go on a rant And me and TikTok drafts Are like this Okay Like I will film something I will draft it I will think about it And a lot of times It won't see the light of day but even with brand safe I've really been thinking about that because like it's an unrealistic standard to say that I will never ever ever ever ever speak on things happening on the internet again right but like if there's not a bigger lesson there like even right now I saw something online where this girl is going extremely viral for her 50-day bender she's like she's a college girl and a lot of people have a lot to say about her like 50 days she's doing day one day two day three of just being on this bender and people are you know starting this whole conversation about it And I'm like, okay, that's an internet thing I would talk about on Brand Safe because I think there's so much to be said about bender culture.

46:56Just like how much alcohol is glamorized for like, and Party Girl and like all of those things is so glamorized when it like it's in reality, that's like fostering alcoholism for life that could have a lot of repercussions and digital footprint for like jobs that could have a lot of repercussions. A lot. I think now I really don't care to talk about pop culture and drama stuff unless either A, I'm really passionate or B, there's a bigger picture. And like I used to almost like have to Or I felt like I had to like Garner something to say I had to like come up with something to say about something And it's like why add more noise Yeah if there's not a bigger Like maybe there's a bigger conversation about how It was two men once again you know but like Yeah I just don't feel the need to be like Commenting on every single thing That's such an interesting point too Because in talking about the double standard Like did you ever feel like Because how much you referenced people were so literally pausing episodes of you and brook and being like oh my god um at this point you can tell that this one doesn't really laugh at that joke and so they must be in a fight this is crazy or she gave her kind of like an interesting weird look that they must be in a fight did you guys or did you personally you can only speak for yourself like ever feel like you had to start to like perform in a way of like oh make sure i'm smiling a lot or like make sure i'm xyz to appease all the naysayers.

48:16I do feel like in the beginning of Canceled, not only was I just like so hammered and stuff that I was just like, and just crazy, and just like, I'd just come off of the do anything for views and that's still who I was, I was so crazy. Whereas by the end, you start to, especially in becoming sober, you start to look at things through a lens of like, I know if I say this thing this way that people are going to say things this way. And fostering such a polarizing comment section and stuff like that. and I think that I just yeah it did just make me sad where I was just like it does suck because you're like and maybe that's also just growing older as well like we were you know by the end of it like she's getting married and I'm like you know I'm so happy with McCohen spending so much more time in Hawaii and I'm sober as all fucking hell so I'm just seeing everything so clearly to where like by the end of it you know like yeah you feel more types of ways about the way the internet is going to pick everything apart and you start to overthink i think that i became an overthinker i became an anxious person i like developed ocd a little bit like for the first time in my life in the sober journey of just like you know i mean the screw like the scrutiny that you guys were getting that would make sense of how it could make you like paranoid yes now that you guys don't work together anymore and you could just be friends how has that dynamic change between you two?

49:39I think that it is so, so cool. And I know that that's just like such a like silly, flippant thing to say. But I think there's a big part of me as well, that when I walk out of what canceled was, and now I like will see the old clips on my timeline and stuff. I look at those two girls. And I'm just like, so deeply, deeply proud of them for like going through all of that and like even just our own personal struggles you know what I mean like she wasn't an alcoholic and like all of these just different things like our own personal struggles I'm just so proud of the lives that we were able to create for ourselves and like this is gonna sound so stupid but like right now she has these cameras in her backyard where they see all the like bunnies like there's bunnies in her backyard and I'll just like see her post about like her bunnies in her backyard and like I'm just like I don't know how to explain it it's so light and stupid but it's such this big metaphor like you're just like chilling at home your cortisol isn't on 10 and you're excited about these bunnies and like that's fucking awesome but you're like this is what we deserve at this point yes not to be stressed and have everyone reading into what every single thing we're doing in the oh it's just like it was too much you got too much yes I'm just I'm genuinely so grateful for the other fucking side for the both of us like and but I also I feel like when I say that that doesn't mean that like I didn't love that side too I think that it's funny as I've been doing a lot of press across the last couple weeks I like have noticed how many people are sitting me down and trying to get me to say something trying to like build this narrative and I'm just like and even just the way that in doing written interviews people will still misconstrue the things that you're saying and I'm just like you're not gonna get that from me like I even just noticed myself right now I'm talking to you and I'm saying we're on the other side and then I'm immediately being like but that doesn't mean I didn't love that side and it almost does make me a little more defensive because I'm like you're not ever going to say that like I didn't love doing canceled and you loved it yes and period and end of story yes and then just like we got to grow up across it and I'm excited to be still growing up and touching the goddamn grass she loves the grass from your now lived experience and I'm not actually even just talking about you know you and Brooke just your whole career having friends in the industry and different interpersonal dynamics with women what is your interpretation now in this phase of your life of like why society is so fixated on creating competition between women I to be honest with you Alex I don't know I don't know if people are projecting things that they have felt or whatever or if there is just this internalized misogyny that like we will forever have to like work through or if people just want that like want to see that for entertainment purposes or what it is and it's not even just competition always it's just simple things that women do like you know what I mean even the like business woman of it all like if you're loud on what you want or if you want to like direct your team and direct your employees like no one would even blink their eyes if like a man did that and it like I want to forever be the voice for that and I feel like I've always been that way in my career even from story time even at that time I my self-worth was so low I didn't for a long time up until this era really look at myself as a role model at all I couldn't I didn't like myself enough or believe in myself enough but now when I look back at my career I think one of the messages that I was always trying to say is that like society wants a woman to shut the fuck up so badly like and we have to band together as women and double and triple and quadruple down on the fact that like no we're not I know it's so it's you're so right tana and i had shared that with you at lunch i was like it's i i feel like i keep having the same conversation with people um like you and michelle obama

53:58the dichotomy of this like you and like oh talking with michelle obama it's so incredible though it's i love michelle obama no it's so good girl no it's literally really she's like she's god she's god she really is so good but it's like i feel like i've had this got shonda rhymes like kerry washington ellen pompeo like jane goodall like i've had so many conversations with so many women who have come forward to be like guys we well we all so we all know this now yes and now what and i feel like that's what i'm trying to figure out in my own journey i shared that with you at lunch of like what is the next though iteration of like i think We're all aware of the double standard I think we're all aware of how we love to pit women against Women and how it's such an easy narrative so why is nothing changing and I think that's kind of It's almost getting worse it's almost getting so much worse with the short form content like just Every day that's why I really don't I think people would be surprised to know that I really am not Opening and scrolling tiktok like I post I deleted the app yeah like it just I don't and sometimes I will yeah like now and again but it makes me so sad when I open it up and it's like what new woman are we hating today and then I scroll and it's like you need to buy this thing or your like your self-worth is low you need to buy this thing to fill this unfillable void consumerism the conspiring against everything it's like Jim Carrey's like probably not a clone and Selena Gomez is also probably not a clone and like also we'll never know so why are we spending our time on that when we could all band together and talk about all the actual actual actual actual problems in the world like like oh my god let's talk about privacy though because i feel like in this new era with you there has been a clear shift like we're talking about of getting involved less in drama not scrolling as much not participating maybe as much and actually going out touching grass sharing a little bit less of your life in a way that feels invasive maybe um yeah having done it for so long and like living for views and and the game how does it feel weird it's i want to say it's just different yeah because i think that the first time i ever found a form of therapy was sitting down in front of a cracked iphone 5 and filming a youtube video and seeing seeing the comments and the people it was the first time I'd ever felt seen it was the first time I'd ever felt hurt it was the first time point blank I didn't want to kill myself when I found that through the camaraderie with my viewers and I always say to my girls out there like our relationship isn't that parasocial because I've shared it all obviously if you're showing up to my front door we might have to have a talk okay but our relationship isn't parasocial because I've shared it all and like we have these same issues whether it's familial issues or sobriety issues or you know becoming a good person not just being born one like you know I and I think I will always share that and if anything I think that brand safe is the most vulnerable I've ever been like it's it's not that I'm just going full private bot like consumer brand safe mode like it's not that if anything I'm sharing more about my childhood and more about these things that are going in my book and more about how the industry like fucked me over I think it's just like it's just different I there is more privacy and discretion in all of the things that I'm sharing and I'm trying to again it's intention versus attention and just like you know it's a great switch though and even right now as soon as I'm done with call her daddy I'm getting on a plane to Hawaii for like three weeks and I'm just gonna go sit at my place there and I'm gonna shoot some solo episodes on the grass and I'm gonna like talk my shit and still giggle but it's just different and it's I'm excited about that you know also like before I was doing so much in LA and then I had so much to talk about about what I was doing in LA and now it's like I'm more in such a reflective recalibrated period where I'm not really trying to go just personally garner so much more lore if anything I'm looking back on so much and I'm looking back on it kind of out of the end out of the woods you know and that was what I wanted this podcast to be which was to feel like 2am conversations with me and from everywhere.

58:16I think I will forever be the most inspired at 2am. That comes from being a Vegas girl. I'm a nighttime person. I'm the most inspired then. And now it can be 2am and I can be stoned in bed with Makoa, like talking about, you know what I mean? Our views on life and parenting and all these like random things. And like, just that like freedom is what defines this era now for me.

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