Tinashe: Broke Boys, Golf Bros & Short Kings

33:02You don't get me, mom. And they're like, uh-huh. and then it all crumbles to the ground. You're like, mom. And she's like, mm-hmm. You're like, fuck. In fact, she knows you better than you know yourself. It's the worst. But it is the best. It is. Okay, next. Good with his hands. How quickly do you know if there is sexual chemistry with a guy? Like, do you think that it can build? I think yes. But like, you know already off the bat if you're a child. I'm, okay. Maybe for me, let me just speak for myself. I am not really sexually attracted to someone that I'm not like attracted to by my eyeballs.

33:43So if I don't like immediately already like see it for you, then I'm not going to get to that place. I understand. Do you like I need to physically be attracted and want to like go up to you and talk to you? Yeah, I have to think you're kind of I have to think you're kind of hot. We're right. But I think it's like the intangible things like or like. like obviously like how like you're feeling in the moment like if you're feeling really confident and like yourself and not self-conscious i think that's like a big plus or like another one is like if you like one time i was like i hooked up with this guy and like i thought i didn't like how he smelled and he didn't smell bad i just didn't like it no no that's like a full pheromone thing where you're like yeah i don't think it's not it's like not by big that is like i think that's a full thing i've had that before too where i'm like my like my ph balance levels are not working with yours it's not hitting right it's not it's not gonna work i do appreciate you saying that though because i agree i think like when you are going to start to see if there's chemistry I do believe that the chemistry and the hookup and the sex can get better but I love how you just said like there are signs though that have nothing to do with like the actual did you feel comfortable did you feel confident did you feel safe did you feel seen you're like oh then there maybe then we just need to like learn each other's bodies more right right but I think that's good to like not completely write them off unless it's like you know yeah really bottom of the barrel and you're like, all right, I never want to see you again.

35:20Okay, last but certainly not least, emotionally available. Now, what are some signs that you've experienced in the past where maybe someone was clearly not emotionally available, but maybe you still pursued them? Because we all love to do that. You know, when they extended situationships. Extended situationships. Do you find yourself in situationships often? Yeah. Okay, let's talk about this, Tinashe, because situationships, I would argue, are more painful than real ending of, like, relationships that had titles and we met each other's family. It's more clear cut. Yes. Okay, how are we ending up in situationships, Tinashe?

36:11What is happening? I mean, I think it's easy when you're busy, you got a lot going on. You're like, let's just, you know, let's see how this goes. And that, I think that's the thing. It's like there's a lot of upfront chemistry and excitement and that purposefulness sometimes is what's missing. And I think you start to notice pretty early on. but it's easy to write off the signs because we're having fun we like each other the sex is good we you know we're busy anyways do you find yourself in the situationship usually the person because i know you've been so focused on your career being like you know what i just want this something casual like are you the one setting the boundary of casual um i definitely have yeah and then have you ever gotten feelings i've i've experienced a situation where it's gone back and forth oh i don't want anything serious he has feelings i want something serious he doesn't want back and forth the switch the flip we i feel like that's literally the worst type of situation because that's the long-term ones you're you could be in that for you could be in that for years no because it's like the way that it got started was you guys kind of agreeing it was going to be nothing too serious yeah then one gets feeling so one pulls back then you agree fine we can keep it casual then what and then you're cat and mouse but it's kind of addicting it's super addicting watch out for those have you ever had a situation chip turn into a relationship um no but i've had a relationship turn into a situation what i've gone the opposite direction connection we've regressed we've regressed what explain i mean never like hooked up with your ex and then like kept hooking up with your ex like that that's how it happens no i thought you meant literally like you're like we're boyfriend and girlfriend and then we're like let's break no no there was like a break a little break yeah you literally are like but let's keep it casual now dude that is the worst when you start hooking up with an ex again yeah it's familiar it feels easy it feels like this can't this is I know this but then you're stuck in a cycle highly inadvisable you're like these are all the things to not do easier said than done but highly inadvisable I get it though because it's like it's safe it's easy

38:48Call Her Daddy is brought to you by Airbnb Daddy Gang The Bump I'm kind of hiding it right now. But the bump has, it's been bumping recently, okay? I swear every day, we're just getting a little bit bigger and this whole thing, it just keeps starting to feel more and more real. And so I really wanted Matt and I to have just a little time together before our life completely changes in the biggest way. And so we planned a baby moon and booked the most gorgeous beach house on Airbnb. It really was exactly what we needed. We had some slow mornings with coffee on the porch and just we were reading.

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41:42Yeah, I mean, I think to me, it's an array of things. But I think with that song specifically, I think I'm just talking about the avoidance specifically. I think there's it's hard when someone's you can't tap into them, like even if you're close, if you're physically in the same room with them or like you're touching them and they still seem far away and you can never get in. I think that's an impenetrable boundary like that hits because I'm just thinking about all of the people listening that you're like it's almost this like intangible thing that it's hard to describe like well what did he do and you're like I there's just like an avoidance or a distance that I can't quite and can they change that's the thing about like somebody who has that kind of quality and like distance from their emotions I think that kind of begs the question like are they even in touch with is that even something that they'll be able to access or like get to or is this something that will always just like be at a distance for them I think you know dude that's really hard to answer because I think a lot of times we get into those situations where we're like we see glimpses and so I think that inevitably a lot of us go into relationships being like of course someone can grow and they can change and so when you see glimpses you hold on to those little baby glimpses where you had a little breakthrough or something.

43:07But if you look at something consistently and it's not changing, that's when it's hard to be like, you kind of have to be the one to walk away. Yeah, that's why this song I think is so, hit so hard for me because the issue that I speak about the song is that I can get so close to you, but like you're still so far away or you give me a little, but never enough. And that's the thing with like somebody who is avoidant. It's like on the surface, it might look like they give you X, Y, Z. they go through the motions, but like you still can't crack that like deep inner core or like maybe you do from time to time, but it's like, and you don't feel fulfilled.

43:45You don't feel fulfilled. And I think that's a really painful realization to come to when you're like, okay, maybe it looks good on the outside, but I'm not getting that like juicy inner core. And I love that you're saying that because I think sometimes it's hard when you're in that situation as the person that is giving so much and you're not getting a lot back when i kind of said like you could see glimpses of it i think that we convince ourselves like okay maybe i'm i'm asking for too much or maybe i just need to be more patient or maybe they really are trying their best but i also think at the end of the day relationships it's like if there is not reciprocity and yeah they could be a great person also by the way this doesn't make them a bad person yes but if you feel so unfulfilled at some point even if they check a lot of boxes yeah that pit in your stomach and that gut intuition feeling it's never gonna go away so you do sometimes have to be the one to rip off the band-aid yeah and i think that song also kind of talks about that because you those are almost the situations that you want to like hold on too longer because you're like it's not that bad like it could be worse like it could be you know you could be doing this you could be doing that and so I think sometimes that's where that song kind of ended up with being like I'd rather be alone because you realize that like your own peace of mind like your own happiness your own fulfillment is more important than like an almost that's what I wrote that down in the song you say I've learned that it's worse to look back and admit I lied to myself when I always knew better.

45:28I was like, oh, because then you're basically self-abandoning in these moments. And it takes you a lot of times leaving the relationship to look back and be like, oh my God, what was I doing? Which is so painful sometimes because hurting the relationship with yourself is sometimes more painful than when you are breaking up a relationship with someone else because you're like, how did I get so far away from me? I think that's the hardest, hardest thing to grapple with. And when someone hurts you and you feel like, oh, this was my, this is on me because I knew better. And I think the line I say immediately after that is potential is just potential, which is another thing that I think I've had to really learn is that potential is just potential.

46:15I know, and it's like crazy the mind tricks that we play on ourselves to convince ourselves like I said like but maybe it's because and you're like if you keep saying but maybe yeah and everyone tells you this but you can't I know when you're in it you're in it do you have any advice for your younger self of like how to maybe get out of situations sooner and not get to the point where you are lying to yourself and you're kind of going down this longer road yeah maybe you didn't have to subject yourself to I mean I would give myself the advice that everyone gave me, which is to just like be real and like assume that, you know, what you see in front of you is the truth.

46:51But I think, again, I wouldn't I can't I can't look back now and think that I would have ever done anything differently, because like I said, you have to it's like a canon effect, like a canon event. You can't interfere. Like sometimes you just have to like let the cycle play out, even if you do know better. And even if you do have all the good advice in the world, I saw that you had said, in conversation about like how long it can actually take to heal from a breakup. In the past, you've said days, try years. When you look back at getting over a relationship and grieving a relationship, what do you think for you specifically, you found yourself mourning post breakup?

47:32Mostly, I think the potential that I saw for myself, which is another thing that I think you learn is like the person that I expected to become by being in this relationship. And I think that a key, a key is realizing that you can become that person without a relationship at all. And you already are that person a lot of times. But it sometimes feels like you can only access like your happiest self or your most outgoing self, your most comfortable self or those things like through someone else seeing those things in you. It's such a good point. And I agree. It's so hard to do it. But you're right.

48:08It's always right there. Yeah. And then we try to look and see like, well, maybe this relationship will give it to me. and it's like, no, no, no, you can give it to yourself. A hundred percent. For you, when you've had moments where you felt like you were healing post breakup or situationship, what has set you back maybe in the past?

48:29I think life is very cyclical and I think we go through a lot of just like cycles of feeling good and feeling bad and feeling confident and feeling less confident and whether that be because of like something that happened that triggered it or just like the seasons changed and like it's getting colder and now I like miss you miss you I think those things happen and I think my career is very cyclical as well like I go through these cycles of like writing an album touring an album promoting an album writing an album touring an album promoting an album so a lot of times like I think a lot when I'm like creating that can really dredge up a lot of emotions in me or like I go through when I'm traveling and I'm alone a lot like really lonely in hotel rooms a lot then like maybe i'll be like i wish i had someone to talk to no that makes a lot of sense i feel like yeah we get our weakest when we're alone and we feel lonely and it's like hold on if you went back i always used to say this to myself like if i went back would anything change yeah no no so stop it you're just lonely right now but it doesn't mean you actually miss him you miss having someone and that's normal and i think you can literally also be bored.

49:40Yes.

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52:31Part of your promo for your song Crash Out, it included a clip of you taking a sledgehammer to a car. Yeah. Now, what inspired the car smashing? Well, at the end of the day, my album's called Popstar and a lot of the themes surrounding it are like classic like pop star tropes whether it be like performances or stunts so I was like we should do a stunt like we need like a gaggy moment and it would be really funny if people like didn't know that it was a stunt like you know like a true publicity stunt yes I don't want people to know that we're promoting my album I just want to go out there and like people who don't like follow me are seeing it online and they're like what the hell and that's exactly what happened so it worked it was fun it was great we're all like what is Tinashe doing and whose car is that and is I love this but also like what did he do to her were you thinking of anyone specific when you were oh my gosh I was just thinking about how heavy that sledgehammer was girl that shit was like 25 30 pounds right you're like this sounded like a good idea I had no idea they were that heavy no no no that's actually I was impressed um in the song you you talk about people sitting on the internet hating.

53:47What has your experience been with just the public's perception of you and internet hate and how do you deal with it? I mean, I've also gone through like ebbs and flows of being like the butt of the joke to being like an internet darling, to being like butt of the joke again, to like being an internet dar. I think that's kind of like how there's always like a ping pongy between like the internet loves you. girl what there was like a period of time people were calling me tennis shoe i had a song called all hands on deck one time i took a picture on the red carpet like this and they called me all hands no neck for like two years that is so terrible and how do you deal with those moments you know good old-fashioned just try to stay offline as much as you can but i've also just gotten a way thicker skin over the years like you just you develop an ability to take criticism and to like let it roll off your back the more you see it the easier it gets the only internet stuff that bothers me to this day is the stuff that i like kind of agree with you know like the stuff that taps your insecurities is when it's bad yeah like for me it's like when people talk about like my performance at something something something because i'm very very critical of like your art things that i do my art and stuff and i'm typically like yeah it could have been better and then someone says like it could have been better i'm like damn they're right i could better like they saw it so i think that those are the things on the internet that bother me but like people just like joking around being trolls like that doesn't really bother me right if they're being an asshole about a bad photo on a carpet that we all have you're like please please leave me alone okay i get it yeah um there are also lyrics about rebellion and kind of rejecting societal expectations you say i don't want to be a good girl what do you think Like that, what do you mean in that context?

55:40Yeah, I think in my life career, I think there's also like this framing around what people expect of me, what people expect of women, what people expect of, I guess, yeah, being a professional. And I think you're constantly questioning whether those like standards are worth it, whether it's worth your standing. Again, this kind of like ties back into like fitting into boxes, watering yourself down or like making the things that you really feel and really think smaller. And sometimes, especially as an artist, I think you just want to be able to express like the full capacity of yourself and your art and not have to have it be like picked apart and analyzed.

56:27And I think a lot of times you'd feel like you can't be 100 real nowadays you know no i i really appreciate that because i agree i think like especially as women we deal with we're trying to people please and we're trying to be palatable and we want people to see us as likable and sometimes you're then if you start to get so fixated on being this like good girl or the liked girl you're like you're doing everything to appease everyone and you're just going to lose yourself because unfortunately you can't be liked by You can't. You literally can't. And the moment that you're liked by everyone half the time, you're like, well, I was kind of like doing it because I thought that's what they wanted.

57:06And it's like, it's an impossible game that we play with ourselves that like men just do not have to think about it to any degree compared to what we do. I also think the song you kind of it reflects this idea that you're at this point in your career and your life where like you don't need validation. And I can like feel that from you. Like you're getting to that place where you're kind of like, Like, so what? What do you think it took from that young girl at 14 in that, you know, girl group to the now where you are in your career? Like, what did it take for you to get to the point where you're like, maybe I don't need this external validation.

57:43It's all inside. I think it's I've I've taken it all the way there to where I cared a lot about what people thought all the way to not caring at all. And it's way better over here. like I think there's just so much freedom but to get to that place you need the experience I think of of caring a lot because because when I say I don't care at all of course I care that's the thing it's like you always care about your art about what you put out about how people feel about you but you don't care to the point where it becomes detrimental to your process or how you feel about yourself or your own value or I think that was the biggest thing from the 14 year old to now is when I first started, I really kind of had this confidence and like knew I was going to become like the biggest artist in the world.

58:32And I think I went full circle from that to being like, oh, I'm actually not confident in my ideas. Maybe like the things that I'm bringing to the table aren't that great because people aren't understanding them. Maybe I have to change things like maybe I don't know. This is confusing to then realizing that like, oh, So I can still be really confident and make all those things and be who I am at the end of the day. And yeah, it just takes a journey. Well, that's why I'm so excited for you because your album, Popstar, which by the time this comes out, releases this week. Yay! First of all, congratulations.

59:13Thanks. Because I do think it's kind of like an amalgamation of everything we just talked about, everything you just said. It's like all of the building blocks of who Tinashe is. Now we're here and you have this piece of work that's coming out. Can you talk a little bit more about what inspired this album for you? Yeah. Well, I wanted to put out a body of work that represented all of the things that make me me. And like we said earlier, I don't subscribe to like one particular sound, one particular genre. I've made records on this project that feel like dance records, like hip hop records, like pop records.

59:48like R &B records. And I think they all to me fall under this umbrella of pop star. And I wanted to bring that question or like bring that conversation to the table of what does it mean to be a pop star? And to me, I've always thought of it as an umbrella term, something that, you know, kind of can encompass all of the genres and isn't exclusive. Or, you know, I think a lot of times people have this idea of what pop is, and maybe it's become more and more exclusive even over time. what they think the sound is or what it looks like. And there's kind of like a monolith. And I don't think that that should be the case.

1:00:26It's a great point. Also, to have an album that has such a variety in genre and sound, like, can you talk more about the process of making this? Yeah. How did you even start? What was your thought process of how you were going to approach it? I mean, I wanted to have a real sense of play when I created this project, like just feel really playful and free and go in there and make something that just like was a fun, enjoyable process. And a lot of times that comes from challenging myself. It's making something that isn't easy or obvious and and maybe like adding elements that feel really contrasting.

1:01:04They feel in contrast to one another. So maybe like I have a really deep, bassy, heavy kind of song and then I have like really floaty vocals over top or like vice versa. Maybe I'll like have something that feels like dancing and like remove the drums or like taking playing with different elements and playing with my vocal performance and just like having fun. And from what we were talking about, like you are someone that works so hard. You're such a perfectionist. You want to get to continuing to build in your career. Like how do you feel about this album in terms of like where it kind of places you at in your life right now?

1:01:41Yeah. it feels it feels the most like I've arrived I think so far I think I'm I just feel really confident in this project I feel really like I am just showing up in like my most myself and just being unapologetic and not keeping I think I'm I have a tendency to almost like downplay my own accomplishments or like my own place in the world and into the industry and culture and I think I'm just owning that I think with this project okay last question yeah now that you have built a career entirely on your own terms um what does success look like for you in the future we have this album Tinashe is going to continue to thrive but what does that look like for you?

1:02:39Yeah, I think I've reached the place where I've realized that being able to continue to make art in a comfortable way is like my main priority to be able to continue to tour and put on the shows that I want to put on and make the visuals that I make and make music without having to worry about anything else is really is the goal. So I think being able to just sustain that and being able to be like my full creative self is the dream, you know, living a dream. I'm so happy for you because hearing how hard you work and how much you have put into your career, how much you have really tried to not allow other people's opinions and other people's influence to essentially impact the way that you approach your own life and your own vision for your talent I think is so inspiring for women and anyone watching just because I think it's easy to hop on trains nowadays of like this is working and this will be catchy and this will do that and to stay true to your core it's clear that you've done that yeah and I'm so excited for the world to hear your new album I'm so excited to continue to like follow your career and I'm sending you all the good vibes and just congrats again like seriously it's it was such a pleasure to get to talk to you.

1:04:08Oh, the pleasure is mine. Thank you for having me.

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