Ask Me Anything with Dan Senor, Yael Bar tur and ChayaLeah Sufrin

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0:32Welcome to Call Me Back's Ask Me Anything, our members-only edition where we open the door and let you shape the conversation. Thank you for subscribing to ARK Plus and supporting everything we do here. Normally, this is an ARK Plus exclusive, but this week is a little different. On Monday, we officially launched ARK Plus, and throughout this past week, we've opened up the full ARK Plus experience to everyone. So whether you're already a member or just taking a look inside, you're hearing an episode that would usually be available only to our members. This is also a perfect excuse to introduce you to the newest members of the ARC family, Yael Bartour and Chayalea Suffren, hosts of our brand new podcast, Chosen People Problems.

1:15My conversation right after this message. You're going to hear me ask for something here, and I'll be up front. I don't love doing these reads. But the truth is, the kind of conversation we have on this show only works if we're not chasing an algorithm or softening what we think just to avoid offending people. We get to have these conversations because the only people we answer to are our listeners. So if this show is valuable to you, consider becoming an ARC Plus member. You can join ARC Plus at ARCmedia.org. yeah el chilea welcome to call me back ama hi dan well thank you so much thanks for having us this is so exciting you you did great by the way you're really good at this podcast again you know you know i i know how to read a document that alan and the team put in front of me i can do that the where things get dangerous is when i when i kind of you know go freestyle and just start improvising our specialty i know that yeah i i from what i understand that douglas Murray was subjected to some freestyle.

2:20I tried to warn Douglas. I warned him. I said, this is a different kind of interview than you normally do. And he acted totally cool and fine that he got it. He seemed scared after. He actually said after that he's becoming an anti-Zionist. Yeah. So sorry about that. We've managed to turn Douglas Murray. The only guy we got. We got Douglas Murray. The only one left. The only one left. And we alienated him. We're coming for John Spencer next. I literally offended him in the first question when I asked him if people only care about him because of his English accent. I didn't know that was like his his like biggest fear is that people don't take him seriously because of his hard work.

2:59But because he's British, how was I supposed to know that? So this is the thing, though. I hear this from Brits all the time, by the way, that there are very they're very self-conscious about whether or not it's their brilliance or it's their it's their accent. So, OK, so I want privilege. so for people who haven't heard the show yet how would you describe chosen people problems and maybe in telling us that also tell us who you guys are like who are you where'd you come from why are you here why are we happy to have you here i know you're here no i know why you're here but you know who are we what is our show about chayla i mean our show is a mix of fun conversations around like Jewish identity, Israel politics, but also like pop culture.

3:44We come from very different backgrounds. Yael grew up secular Israeli in Tel Aviv. I grew up Chabad in Long Beach, California. My father's the Chabad rabbi here and my mother's the Rebbiton. I'm married. I have four kids, all raised in like very Chabad style. And Yael and I became best friends over COVID, at the beginning of COVID, we like became connected through this libertarian podcast. I know that makes no sense. People think we started this because of Israel and Jewish identity, but actually we started this to complain about wokeness. And then it sort of turned into, you know, especially after October 7th, it really turned into a conversation that Jews were having around their kitchen tables and dining room tables and in their backyards and things that mean a lot to the jewish people but also you know we talk about like is achmad janejad hot or not and you know things like that which is still like tbd because we've gotten a lot of different answers about that you ask that a lot that's a question you guys are it's not just like a one-off we asked mark dubowitz um yeah yeah he had some thoughts actually he passed out and then had an answer for us but yeah as most of your guests do i i notice this is a theme with every one of your episodes that the guest goes through a moment of having to adjust.

4:57Yes. Recalibrate. Yes. And then come back and then rejoin the conversation. I will say this. We also, I think we have a pretty good track record of guests becoming listeners. Yeah. That's after. Yeah. Yeah. One listener at a time. Yeah. It's an interesting growth strategy. You get them on the podcast and then they become a subscriber. Yeah. Tell Elan that's our plan. Yeah. All right. That's the plan. Okay. Okay, so just so our listeners understand, your episodes drop on Tuesdays, but just like this episode, your first AMA is also available to everyone. Yes, slide right in. Wow. So if you like what you hear today, I just want to tell our listeners, follow the link in the show notes to subscribe to Chosen People Problems and the rest of the full ARC Plus experience.

5:43So those are all my administrative matters. Now I want to get into questions from our community. So you have not seen these questions. Do we have to behave? like a mate and a dove. Do you think they behave? Yeah. I mean, have you heard them in Hebrew? I mean, it's interesting that you say that because they've been getting a little spicy with each other recently in English. Oh, I like it. We should do like shipping. Do you know what shipping is? No. I don't think I want to tell you. Don't tell me. Don't tell me. But for the listeners who know. No, I don't want it. It sounds like it's one of these, if you know, you know, and I have gratitude that I don't know.

6:16No, no. They think they've gotten good in a healthy way. I actually like the heat. But you guys decide what your definition of behave is. I'm going to start hitting you with these questions we got. The first one is Michael from Boca Raton, Florida, who writes, what should Hebrew school look like in the United States? And when I think of Hebrew school, I think of like after school, Sunday school. Well, I have what to say. I ran a Hebrew school for like 10 years. Perfect. So Hebrew school is one of the worst things that ever happened to American Jewry. Honestly. Wow. Wow. Saying it's someone who spent 10 years running one?

6:51I know. And I feel bad to say that because I want Jewish parents to send their kids to Hebrew school, but it's actually the worst thing ever. We force the kids to go to school when they're supposed to be on their free time, Sunday mornings or after school. And we wonder why they hate it and resent it and find it annoying. And so what do we do? We try to make it super fun. You're going to freaking love it. We're going to make an edible sukkah and we're going to stand upside down on our heads and we're going to laugh and we're going to watch videos. And so what do we end up with is kind of like a very sort of thin Jewish education.

7:25That's more like clown school. I mean, I'm being I know I'm being harsh, but like it is. Yeah, it is. I would call it shipping. It sounds like you're shipping. She is absolutely not shipping. This is us behaving, by the way. And I'm sorry. I know a lot. There are a lot of great Jewish educators who work at Hebrew school and we work super hard and I really appreciate it. And it's the best that we can do, but it's not the best solution for educating our kids. And I just they need to like we need more depth in Hebrew school. That's what I think. OK, wow. There's a whole this could be its own episode.

8:00No, really. Do you think that the pervasiveness of Hebrew school in the diaspora, or at least in the U.S., has has been a failure? I mean, I'm going to get a lot of hate for this. But yeah, I think that it's an excuse that Jewish parents give themselves. And in fact, you know, the shoals also, I mean, the communities do this as well by saying like, oh, it's OK that your kids go to public school and here spend two hours a week coming and, you know, that's going to be enough. When my grandmother, who was very, very Orthodox woman, lived in the Lower East Side and she did there was no Jewish school for girls when she was growing up.

8:36She went to hate her every single day. She attended public school in the morning, right? Like till one o 'clock. And then every single day, four to five times a week, she was in cheder. That was a, that was a way to educate Jewish kids Jewishly, right? Coming to two days a week for an hour or two hours. It's just, it's so, it's not working. It's not, I get it. And I think there, I know I'm going to get a lot of emails about this. There are benefits and they get a Jewish identity from it in some fashion. But if we want literate Jewish kids, this is just not it's not it. Sorry. No, no, no. This this this is this topic is a big focus of mine generally.

9:17So I'm not going to weigh in because I don't want to offend as many people as you. I mean, I feel terrible. But I but I but I'm happy to have you do it. All right. Let's go to Maddie from Rochester, New York, who writes, many argue the rise of democratic socialism is a response to extreme inequality. It's a fair argument. But socialism is, Maddie writes, a hard sell for Americans. Do you think that the DSA and Mamdani would have been as successful without anti-Zionism leading their messaging? So basically the core of it is socialism. But according to Maddie, socialism doesn't sell. I'm not sure right now actually in this environment that Maddie's right.

9:53But let's just accept the assumption. So socialism is a hard sell. So they need something else to kind of, you know, make it more attractive. and anti-Zionism is making it more attractive. Again, this is what Maddie's suggesting. Yeah, Al? Hi, Maddie. Thank you for the question that you thought somebody else would answer. But it's just me. I actually think like with anti-Zionism, I think we, and I mean this in a good way, I don't think we should credit ourselves for a lot of this. I think anti-Zionism and anti-Americanism and anti-billionaires, as anti-data center, this is, they're all kind of fall under a very, very similar bucket to me, where people think that they're just hating the people who are powerful and in charge.

10:39Now, of course, they don't know what they're talking about because they get all their information from like, you know, an Instagram carousel from Buzzfeed. But, you know, I think it's just, it all falls into the same bucket of being angry at your parents, you know? You think anti-Semitism, that's a big part of what's happening with anti-Semitism? I mean, anti-Zionism? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of people who are anti-Zionists aren't anti-Semites. They're just idiots. And I don't know what's worse, honestly. But like, it doesn't mean that in their heart, they're like, man, I really hate these Jews.

11:10They're like Shabbat dinners and they're suckers. You know, they just, you know, I hate people who are powerful because I'm a child, basically, and I have a child's understanding of the world. So let me give you a different take, although it's not necessarily inconsistent with what you're saying. This is a point that Jonah Goldberg has been arguing, which is that what's attractive to young people about socialism is that they actually think it's new. Young voters always like what's new. So when they recoil at mainstream Democrats, they say, no, no, no, you're invested in all these old ideas. We need new ideas.

11:42And they think new ideas are represented by socialism, which is ironic because it's the farthest thing from a new idea. but they're just too young to know it's a very old idea and they're too uneducated to know it's a new idea. So they think socialism is this cool new thing. And I guess could anti-Zionism be that for them too? Yeah, I mean. New, different. It's all. Even though it's the oldest thing in the world, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's all repackaged. It's all, you know, it doesn't really matter if it's old or new because nobody's going back and reading about this stuff. Nobody's going back and learning about it.

12:14again people are getting their education from their heart right for what they feel and they see a video online they see something online and they feel a certain way and they decide that what their whole geopolitical outlook is based on something that they saw and now offended half your audience let me allow me to offend the other half beautiful mind this is this is we launched our plus and today we're completely crashing it so yeah yeah exactly and then please pay for this too yeah if you want to yell at us uh you should pay for this because that's true You can actually access us. No, but I also think we're we're fighting anti-Semitism wrong in a lot of ways by calling all these people anti-Semites.

12:52And some people are anti-Semites. Don't get me wrong. But calling everybody who says anti-Semitic things an anti-Semite is I think it's not productive because basically what you're telling them is you're telling them you're hurting my feelings. Right. You're telling them you're you're being bigoted. I know what's in your heart. And a lot of these people don't consider themselves anti-Semites. That's why I think it's better to call them stupid or maybe, you know, find a better way to call them out and say, actually, you're wrong. Not only are you wrong, you're being played. You're being manipulated by other people instead of just being like, you're being mean to Jews.

13:23Like, I just I don't think it's effective. We had Olivia Reingold on last year and she said she kind of called it accidental anti-Semitism, which I could relate to. So let me read you a tweet. this conversation is making me think of this tweet I saw the other day, which really resonated by from Abe Greenwald, who's a good would be a good guy to have on chosen people problems, by the way. He writes, there was an invisible moment. I'm quoting Abe here. There was an invisible moment when woke and defund as in defund the police went from being badges of honor to terms of humiliation. Keep it. And then he says, keep an eye on the word genocide.

14:01So, so it's like there was this invisible moment where everyone used these words and it was totally cool and and and you know and and where the zeitgeist was and now suddenly we we all including the left talks about these words with like contempt and like as though it was never a thing and i asked a a um a democratic member of congress this morning i i had mentioned this tweet to him and he says oh yeah it'll be like that with us with the democrats and genocide in two years but we'll laugh at like the fact that we were throwing around that term as though we were actually knew we're talking about do you think that's going to happen anti-zionism one was crazy dan no but do you think genocide will do you think genocide will yes i do i actually i actually posted something similar i think that people are going to pretend at one point that they never said that yeah um that said we are you know i think we're facing more of an uphill uphill battle for us i'm i'm kind of very involved in the the you know on kind of the defund discourse because my previous life, I used to work for the NYPD and I was involved in law enforcement.

15:03So when people ask me, like, have you lost friends since October 7th? I say no, because I lost all those people when I started working for the NYPD. Because again, it's the Venn diagram of people who hate Israel and people who hate police. Right. It's like almost a full circle. Well, I was just going to say that the people who are turning socialist or DSA or anti-Zionist, it's because they don't know anybody who lived in a real socialist country or actually experienced that kind of life. and they don't really know Jews or people who come from Israel. And so when they also don't know any cops. Right.

15:33So when they get when they meet people like us or they get educated a little bit or they read a book or something, they get out of college and like face the real world. I think it's going to actually go away. These are not sustainable ideas. They're just not. I actually I think I think it's going to be if that changes, it's going to be more top down than than bottom up. I think people I think it's going to appear less like, you know, media people or politicians are going to use it less because it's consistently being proved as wrong. I think most people are going to go with whatever their vibe and their groups are telling them.

16:05Most importantly, when you said you posted something similar to what Abe did, were you planting a flag there that yours was before his and so he was knocking off? Was this like an IP complaint? It was definitely that and it was definitely funnier. But Abe's was probably smarter. So I'll give you the smarter part. I just want to understand exactly, because I want to help our listeners read between the lines. And so what was like, there's what Yale said, and then there's what she really said. Okay. Good flag. Nothing but respect for Abe. Kat from Hoboken, New Jersey writes, I'm an observant conservative Jew, and I really want to take a four-day backpacking trip with my college friends, a mixed group of men, women, secular Jews, and non-Jews.

16:45But it is over a weekend, and I'm trying to be more observant of Shabbat. That means I can't help with starting the fire, doing the cooking, pitching tents, et cetera. So the burden on the rest of the group weighs on me. Should I just not go? Wow. You're the reason there's anti-Semitism, lady. Kat, I'm just saying if I were answering, if it was like me answering the questions, the team, the ARC team would never let me answer a question like this. Well, why would you say? I don't know what I would, I'm amazed this slipped through the cracks. Go ahead, Chayalaya. What should Kat do about her camping trip?

17:20She should absolutely go. And it's going to be everyone's pleasure to help her and assist her. And she'll help more when it's not Shabbat. You give when you can and the rest of your friends, if they're really your friends, they'll be happy for you and they'll assist you. And you should never feel bad about keeping Shabbat. I don't care if someone has to help me. OK, so I pay them back after. I'll help them on Sunday or Friday or Wednesday. But you absolutely go and absolutely don't compromise on your Shabbat observance and your friends will be very happy to help you. I think you should go and just keep Shabbat twice next week.

17:52And don't worry about it. Start next week. And don't listen to you, Elle, who doesn't know what Shabbat is. No one has told her yet. So I just pulled up an amazing quote that this little exchange made me think about. Oh, is it from Abe Greenwald's Twitter? Is that where it's from? That was good. There's going to be a surge in Abe Greenwald Twitter followers. Abe Greenwald and I got into an argument about Eurovision, but I'll tell you about that one day. But I'm quoting Rabbi, this is me really flexing here, you pull up Abe Greenwald's Twitter and I come back to you with Rabbi Jonathan Sachs. I'm quoting the late Rabbi Jonathan Sachs who famously taught, and I'm quoting here, non-Jews respect Jews who respect Judaism and they are embarrassed by Jews who are embarrassed by Judaism.

18:44I couldn't agree with him more. That's true for everything in life. Right. I have actually seen this in the non-Jewish world. I agree. That I generally find Jews who are serious about Judaism command more respect from non-Jews. I told that to Jonathan Sachs, FYI, before he wrote that. You did? You DM'd him via AIDS Twitter? Okay. Ghost wrote his book. I'll just say one more thing. I took my parents to Central Synagogue for Yom Kippur. This year? My parents who are very, yeah, they're visiting from Israel. Very, very secular. And my dad, like, never go to synagogue. My dad was like, this is like, this was like church.

19:23Yeah. Although her sermon was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, it was. We listened to that on YouTube. Yeah. Yeah. That is like going to church is then watching the service on YouTube. But okay. All right. I'm going to keep going. Michal from Kosice, Slovakia. Wow. That's where my mother's from. Slovakia. I've been there. I've been to Kosice twice with my mother. Okay. Michael writes, hi, thanks to all ARK Media contributors for your excellent work. My question is, has FAUDA three years on done the best job of helping the world understand what happened on October 7th, 2023? Why does fiction succeed where reality fails to get through to people?

20:01Good question. Yes. I just finished the season recently. Did you watch episode five? Seven and eight? No, five. Five. Five? Seven and eight is getting all the news, but five is the episode that I'm in. Oh, wait, really? Yeah. How did I miss that? That's, I'm embarrassed for you and for me. Okay. But I'm in it. But keep going. I mean, I guess I do know why it's entertaining and you can draw people in through entertainment more than you can through, hey, look at this, you know, terrible video. And it's also kind of to go back to the Rabbi Sacks quote. It's very unapologetic, right? And it's not like Hasbara.

20:40It's not like, you know, look at us. We're so great. It's just like, this is it. This is who we are. And this is what we were dealing with. And this is what we're dealing with. And, you know, I think, I don't know if this is correct. I don't know if I remember this correctly. Sorry. But I think before Netflix bought them, they had released all the episodes of season one for free. So people in the Arab world could watch them because a lot of it's in Arabic and they got a lot of fans there. and yeah I had people reach out to me saying you know that I haven't spoken to in a while saying like oh my gosh I just watched season five of Fauda it's so good and then like every Israeli kind of like what happened in the plane you feel like responsible you're like you walk around being like oh my gosh I'm so proud but I am proud I was just gonna say I think that it it works because we only understand life anymore through tv and and Hollywood and movies I work with college students, I don't think they understand anything outside of the context of Hollywood anymore.

21:36So if you don't see it in a movie or on a TV show, it's very hard to kind of assimilate it into what it means. Even relationships, even friendships, even anything that they do in their lives is all through this lens that we have been sort of pushed into. And that is through the lens of fiction. And I that's how people are going to consume, I think, all information from now on. Like if we want them to know about George Washington, they have to watch a fictional movie about him. Otherwise, forget it. There's a good one, by the way. Yeah. There's a new one. But so I just had this conversation this morning.

22:10I was at a bat mitzvah this morning, by the way. Isn't that interesting to you? It's the most dancing thing ever. Friday morning. On Friday. Hashanah Rabbah. Yeah, that's nice. Do you want to explain what Hashanah Rabbah is, Chai Lea? Hashanah Rabbah is the last day of Sukkot. It's a very special holy day. Yeah, it's a very holy day because it says that it's the day that we like get our final answer from God about what we prayed for on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, it gets finalized today. I was supposed to pray for things? Today, yeah. We're not going to make a big deal about it. It's too late.

22:38She didn't even know about Yom Kippur. I pray that people won't hate our show. So, okay, so this is the second bat mitzvah I've been to on Hashanah Rabbah. I was at one a few years ago, a friend of mine. It's a kid, and then I was at a friend of mine's daughter this morning. But that's not really why I raised that. But on the drive home, the bar mitzvah was in Brooklyn and I was on my way back and I was driving with a friend of mine, Ben Archibald, who was talking to me about FAUDA. We got into this whole conversation about why it's breaking through when it seems like the world hates us. And certainly the Hollywood creative scene is, let's just say, unreliable and unbalanced.

23:20And he was asking me and I honestly don't have a good answer. like we we all freak out and understandably catastrophize about like this documentary nasa the reality is the number of people that are actually going to be see nasa they hate more people more people believe it or not will be watching listen to this episode of the podcast even your strategy of recruiting one listener at a time like they will more there will be a larger audience for this than than for nasa and and we all freak out because it was atrocious obviously And yet Fowda is one of Netflix's top 10 shows globally right now. The whole world is watching it.

24:00I mean, I honestly don't have a good answer. Like how do I, you know, there's something going on. Also, everybody in it is hot. Really? I think most people, even though Lioraz looks, it's funny because he looks like every single guy in Israel. Yeah. Right? Like he literally looks like every single man in Israel. What about Captain Ayub? So you know something about Captain Ayub? I don't know if a lot of people know this. He's my favorite character, by the way, in the whole show. Do you know how he got his start, that actor? He's like a, he's a standup comedian, musician. He was in a drag. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:31Yeah, yeah. Which actually performed at my father's 50th birthday. Wow. Which I won't say how many years ago that was. Okay. But it's so funny because I always think of him as like a comedic actor with a dress. Yeah. I have always felt there's a spinoff show for Captain Ayub. It's like Fowda's version of Better Call Saul. When you, when you talked about the Bat Mitzvah, I thought you were going to say that it was Fowda themed. which I thought would be really interesting, bat mitzvah. Right? I thought it would be found. Have you ever seen, have you ever been to the Fauda like experience, the Fauda theme park in Israel?

24:59No. I'm being serious. Really? This thing exists. No, it doesn't. Yes, there's a whole Fauda like experience where you like, they have you dress up as like the Fauda unit. Is it called going to the IDF? It's called Fauda. It's called Fauda. There's like, it's an, it's like a, it's like a recreational tourist experience. Yes. I'll say something remarkable about it, too, though, that it's so popular in Israel and outside of Israel. So the fact that it appeals to global audiences and Israelis who know this stuff is really remarkable. This is the world we live in. You asked me to read a book about India.

25:35It's going to take me a long time to get through it. I'm going to have to struggle, right? I watched the movie Lion. Do you remember that movie? It's about a little kid who gets lost. It's based on a true story. He gets lost on the train and he ends up in an orphanage and then he's adopted by an American. I watched that movie. I became the most pro-Indian person you've ever met. I almost adopted a kid. My my my my husband was literally taking my laptop away from me because I was signing up for an adoption agency in India so that I could adopt Indian kids. There's just something about movies and TV, the way they penetrate us, that an article in the L.A.

26:08Times or a podcast episode is just not going to do. It's just there's something special about it. By the way, another very popular Israeli show is schtitzel yeah oh my friend's syrian my friend's syrian christian husband who is from syria is the one who convinced me to watch it because i'd heard about it he said no no it's so good and it's amazing riveting that's how i learned about orthodox people before i met chayla we'll be right back after this brief message how people come to understand israel and jewish life right now depends on who is telling our story. Today, that work requires more care and integrity than ever before.

26:47And that doesn't come cheap. Our ARC Plus members are the ones who fund it. They support our mission and get early access to our second weekly episode, ad-free listening, and our weekly members-only Ask Me Anything episode. Join ARC Plus at arcmedia.org. And to our members, thank you.

27:13I'm Debra Pardes, the host of ARC News Daily. What's happening in Israel and the Jewish world right now matters. But it can be hard to keep up, let alone make sense of it all. That's why we started ARC News Daily. Every weekday morning, I walk you through the most important news, give you the context you need, and let you know what to look out for next. I don't try to convince you of anything, and I don't waste your time. On most days, I'll be in your ears for about 10 minutes or less. Then you can move on with your day, hopefully a little bit smarter than before. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or follow the link in the show notes.

27:51I hope to see you tomorrow.

27:58Okay, Marlon from Frankfurt, Germany writes, Big fan and subscriber. In the past years, Netanyahu has cozied up to some far right Eastern European leaders with the AFD gaining momentum and winning elections in Germany. Do you see Netanyahu cozying up to the AFD like one of his ministers, Amichai Schickly, has? The German Jewish community is highly concerned about this. So first off, do either of you have a view of the AFD, the rise of the right in Germany? You can take this anywhere you want. No one wants to hear that the right is rising in Germany. I was going to say nobody wants to hear our views about European political parties.

28:37I mean, which one is Germany again? Is that the Holocaust one? I don't think Netanyahu should cozy up to that party. That's my opinion. I would say, kabdeu v 'chashdeu, as we say in Hebrew. You've got to translate. Respect, but be wary. Yeah. Because none of these people are our friends. So the person that you've turned into an anti-Zion is Douglas Murray. uh he has a he has a new he has a piece up in the free press i think i gotta double check that where he talks about the afd he is not as worried about the afd and i i we should maybe post the piece than others are about the rise of other movements throughout europe but generally speaking i do think the rise of the right in europe is and i think we're likely to see the continued ascendance of the right in France, depending, you know, there's very, very plausible scenario where whatever follows the Burnham government in the UK will be, you know, a hard right government potentially.

29:39I do think all of these, this entire movement, this backlash going on in many European countries will make it very hard for the EU to impose any kind of comprehensive sanctions against Israel. So while like Mark Dubowitz and I talked on our, on the call me back the other day, and he was painting a picture where the EU could step in and, and engage in some comprehensive set of sanctions and economic isolation of Israel. But to do that, it's not just like you, you need a critical mass. And I don't know what the exact number is off the top of my head of EU countries. And there are a number of these governments that are either in existence or on the path to being in existence, or at least are parties that are on the rise that will make that very hard.

30:19So this creates this dilemma to Marlon's point is, you know, yes, these parties may make Marlon uncomfortable. Marlon, I hear you. But from Israel's geopolitical positioning, there's a balance that they're trying to strike because some of these governments and some of these parties create a bulwark against some of the most dangerous policies for Israel that could be directed at Israel. By the way, if things go south here in the United States and somehow, you know, our government government turns to be, you know, pretty anti-Israel, Israel is going to have to find new friends in the world. And some of those friends are not going to be are the greatest people.

30:59It might be a China, you know, might be something like China. It might be, you know, other European countries that we don't love or Latin American countries. And we're going to have to live with that because Israel needs friends in the world. But I will say that Ilan had me do all this research about Jews who supported Mussolini in Italy, you know, before the Holocaust. And, you know, the Jews thought that this was the best case scenario, considering, you know, the threat of communism, et cetera. And you see how the Jews were really acting in their own self-interest at that moment. But then, you know, it turned out to be obviously a terrible disaster.

31:32But what, you know, we're stuck all the time. Jews are always stuck trying to make the best situation out of horrible, you know, realities. And I feel like Europe is headed in that direction for a lot of the Jewish communities there. It's a tough choice. The left is not great and the right isn't great. So where do you go? Dan, can I ask you about that? You know, again, my knowledge of Europe is is pretty much Eurovision. So I can tell you which countries like voted for us and which didn't, which really correlates with how anti-Semitic they are. So I'm not even joking. I'm going to make you do a Eurovision episode in May next year.

32:10It's amazing. But no, but what I was going to say about that is I don't, from my limited understanding, and please tell me what you think, on a people level, not necessarily on a political level, I find that people being alarmed by the rise of, you know, Islamism in Europe or people being anti-immigration in Europe doesn't necessarily correlate with support of Israel. Like they have room in their hearts to hate all of us. Yeah, I think both of those sentiments are they live in parallel, but they're not connected. So so what I mean is I think there is growing support, believe it or not. This is a very contrarian take and heads are going to explode when I when I say I'm about to say, because people are going to think it's so inconsistent with their with what they're observing but um i think there is growing dependence on israel for strategic and security and defense tech capabilities as i've argued on coming back a lot there are two laboratories that are the future of warfare and the future of defense they're ukraine and israel and the whole world and specifically the west is looking at both of those countries and saying what can we learn from these places and how can we hop in the laboratory and understand what they understand and leverage and piggyback onto their due diligence and their knowledge and the skills and the capabilities and the technologies they've developed and in a world in which government after government after government is spending more and more in defense country talk about EU countries and NATO countries are spending on defense budgets now in ways I never would have imagined 10 years ago five years ago two years ago and and they're all doing it and they're all looking at at israel and ukraine so it's a very realist approach and like a real politic approach to how people in these countries are making decisions they're like i don't love israel i don't hate israel i don't love the jews i don't hate the jews but i need them i need to partner with them so it's not the this this romanticized view of zionism and it's romanticized view of israel and shared values and common history that we have.

34:15It's purely like, what have you done for me lately? And it turns out Israel is doing a lot for a lot of people lately, even if they don't want to talk about it. And even if it's politically awkward in their own constituencies and districts and countries to talk about it. And so I think that is going to be the driving force. So it's not about like, I hate Jews. I love Jews. I hate Israel. I love Israel. It's, I need something from them. It's pragmatic. Yeah. Yeah. We were so cute with the UAE after this whole plane thing where the UAE was like, you guys were great. We're like, no, you guys were great.

34:47Like, I feel like everybody really, you know, there's a lot going on. The UAE, I mean, there was a senior official from the UAE, he told me, and this was not after the Fly Dubai thing, but, you know, after, someone told me this summer that at the end of the day, the UAE government believes after what they dealt with with Iran during the Iran war, the only country in the entire region that they can depend on is Israel. They said, we're part of the Arab League, Not a single member of the Arab League called us when there were barrages of missiles hitting Dubai and Abu Dhabi. We're a part of the Gulf Cooperation Council.

35:20Not a single country from the Gulf Cooperation Council called us and said, how can we help? The only people that called was Netanyahu and the Israeli government and said, we're deploying Iron Dome. We're deploying, it sounds like ultimately it was over a thousand Israeli personnel. We're going to help you set up the equivalent of your, you know, an emergency response system to alert your citizens. Israel was there for them. Like that. even you mentioned we felt bad even the dove you mentioned the dove earlier and the dove was a big critic of the current israeli government even he said these bb in this government he told me this not on the podcast he told me this over dinner so he may be annoyed that i'm saying it here but he said even sick invite he said even bb was like was like smart to jump on this and and reach out to the uae right away and move quickly so my cousins are like a bad there in dubai are you Wow.

36:13There. And, and my cousin's son just became a Chabad rabbi in Saudi Arabia. Wait, I'm not exact. Yes, there is now. I don't know if I'm supposed to announce this actually, but whatever I'm saying, you just started a deal. No, but her son is going back and forth. Yeah. He's. And if you want to know how to sign up for. That's amazing. That would be its own conversation about, about the rise of Chabad in the Muslim world. okay it's crazy last question ari fromst louis missouri writes israel has become a contested topic in both major parties name a politician with 2028 presidential ambitions who would be able to deal with those challenges during the primaries please name one politician from each party oh marco rubio my boy marco rubio yeah you can do any job that's easy as we know marco what What about a Democrat?

37:04A Democrat. I mean, I'm going to say Gavin Newsom. I think he can handle it. You just think that I know, but I think no, but he because he's like a TV guy. He's like the West Wing president and he'll he'll massage it and with his smile and his good hair and he'll say, no, you know, I didn't mean it that way. You misunderstood. This is what I think Gavin Newsom is going to be able to kind of walk that line more than anyone else that I can think of. I would say, what about Van Jones running as a Democrat? No. That would be nice. Why would he do that? Why would he do that? I don't know. Please, Van, don't do that.

37:44I don't know. One of the Joshes. Who are all the Jewish Joshes? No, that's the worst. No, no, no, no. Really? I have this ongoing argument with Mark Halpern who believes, and I disagree with him, he believes that the most promising group of candidates, just in terms of their political skills and their organizational skills and the, where they're positioning themselves within their parties for all, for different reasons, all happened to be Jewish. Yeah. Ossoff. Yeah. Shapiro, uh, Rahm Emanuel. Like he goes through like some of the most talented politicians happen to be, now look, they, some of them like, you know, not, you know, just because they're Jewish doesn't mean they're Jewish, but it is interesting.

38:24No, I, um, I, I'm going to punt on answering this question until after the midterms, because I do think the outcome of the Michigan Senate race will be an earthquake, like one way or the other. Meaning if the Democrats win the Senate majority because they won the Michigan Senate race with Abdul El-Sayed, he will instantly be a rocket ship in democratic politics. And the takeaway the Democrats will have from the 2026 midterms will be, this is the path. This is the ticket. El-Sayed won a state that Donald Trump won twice. What do you mean we can't run a DSA type candidate who has the views that he has in the heartland, in the heart of the country?

39:05And that will shape the 2028 presidential election, at least as the Democratic primaries are concerned. If he loses at a time when Democrats should be winning just about everywhere, given how bad the environment is for Republicans, hopefully there'll be a conversation among Democrats that you like you idiots. We nominated this guy who couldn't win in an environment where just about every Democrat was winning. And that could also then give Democrats some like pause about, you know, how hot their rhetoric has become as it relates to Israel and the Jews. So I think these midterms are going to matter.

39:38I heard he's 5 '6", Abdul El-Sayed. No, is that true? Is that true? Well, I don't know. Now that Dan said I'm taking my whole family and all my 400 first cousins and moving to Michigan to vote. Now? Because it really scares me. Like this week. Early voting starts in a week. I'm not joking. I'm moving next week. Okay, yalla. I mean, oh my God. All right, guys, that's all for our questions. Wait, that's all we want more questions. Well, I just want to save a moment to wish Chayalea Mazel Tov because her son is getting married in a few days. Thank you. Yes, thank you. How on earth is your son getting married?

40:10What is he, four? Well, I'm 20. My oldest son, who's 24 years old, is getting married. Mazel Tov, that is amazing. Yeah, yeah. I have four sons, and so he's the first. so we're welcoming a new uh a girl into our life which is odd i'm used to being the only uh female around but yeah we're very where is he getting married in cleveland ohio she's where in cleveland i know cleveland very well oh you do yeah it's called lander haven it's in mayfield heights i know mayfield heights i don't know yeah it's named after brad lander um can dan can i send you my hotel and tell me if i'm gonna get like stabbed there yeah yeah i'll come because i have no idea where i'm going oh yeah yeah oh yeah no no yeah send me your hotel i know i know i know i actually love cleveland that's a very it was a i called today i called to make my reservation because i do i do everything late and it was i'm in the overflow overflow hotel but the woman was telling me she was like we're getting a lot of calls about this wedding.

41:12Like, I'm sorry. Okay. So wait, let me just say, by the way, before also, before we break, yeah, real quick, what is your, what is your riff on Eurovision? Oh my gosh. I think Eurovision is one of the most interesting geopolitical stages in the world. Um, you get everything on it. It's like the UN, but like super gay and sparkly. Uh, and you have, the music is terrible. Everybody can admit to that, but it's not really about the music. It's about the dynamics between the countries that judge, because every country gets to vote with judges and with televotes. And over the last, I think, three years, it's been a huge mess with Israel, right?

41:54Like a bunch of countries pulled out, Ireland, Spain, we're never gonna forget this. And consistently, judges from these countries who are publicly known have scored Israel low and televotes have scored Israel straight to the top. So we've gone from place like 15 by judge votes to like came in, I think, number, I think five, three and two over the last few years. Now, the songs were bangers, too. But I think it's such an interesting story. And I'd like to see a glimmer of hope in that. I don't know if it's a bunch of Israelis, but I can't only be a bunch of Israelis in, you know. The question is, are they is it the AFD?

42:37Where are they? Where's the AFD? I don't know what song they submitted I don't know what song they submitted Dan she made us do a whole episode on this I had to sit through an entire one hour episode talking about Eurovision and I wrote an article for the New York Post that we can link I'm the New York Post Eurovision correspondent thank you very much you did a whole episode that stretched longer than the two minutes you just did but it already felt long so I'm imagining what an hour of this felt like By the way, the guy that we interviewed is a sports commentator. I'm still going. I'm still going.

43:11Do you want me to list the songs? You don't even know. But he's a sports commentator in Israel. Shalom Davidovich, he's great. But because he loves sports, he also loves Eurovision. Because it's like sports for people like me. Okay. Well, listen. We're going to wrap there. Because I really want to minimize the loss of listeners and subscribers. I mean, every minute, just less. This is just like you can watch the, you know, like the. OK. Shabbat shalom, guys. Shabbat shalom. Shabbat shalom. Excited to have you on to have you excited to have you in the ARC family. And thank you for taking a chance on us.

43:51I know. I mean, it's probably too late now. So you to take it back. No, no. This is what we call in the business sunk costs. So. And ARC Media, which is going to be sponsored by the New England Patriots. I'm very excited. I'm going to work on that. Now you really crossed the line. I know. I'm ready to go back and talk about Eurovision. We have an episode titled Hashem. Hashem is a Patriots fan. I think one of our earliest episodes. You're just trying to needle me and I don't appreciate it, especially as I head into a week where we have a very important game. This is what it's going to be like.

44:22We signed a 15-year contract. This is what it's going to be like. We're attached to you. We can't get a choice. Oh my gosh. and just a reminder you can listen to Yael and Chayalea every Tuesday on Chosen People Problems and every Thursday you can listen to their AMA for ARC Plus subscribers and please listen because Dan is going to be so mad at us if we don't get listeners if the metrics are weak we have problems yeah because don't worry we have a backup plan we've already we've already worked out a podcast. Ed Greenwald is going to have his own podcast and I thought you were Yeah, about Eurovision.

45:01It's just going to be him saying it's so much worse than that. Yeah, exactly. It's worse than that. I love that you know that. That abism, it's worse than that. They've really milked that. Okay, goodbye, guys. Bye. Bye. Bye.

45:27how people come to understand Israel and Jewish life right now depends on who is telling our story today that work requires more care and integrity than ever before and that doesn't come cheap Our ARC Plus members are the ones who fund it. They support our mission and get early access to our second weekly episode, ad-free listening, and our weekly members-only Ask Me Anything episode. Join ARC Plus at ARCmedia.org. And to our members, thank you.