Sneak Peek: Dan on the One State “Solution,” and more…

0:00Hi, it's Dan. Over the past couple of years, Call Me Back has grown into something much bigger than we ever expected. A place for clarity, context, and honest conversations at a time when those things can seem hard to find. That's what ARK Media is all about. Building a truly independent voice, which means no one shaping what we say or how we say it. to help support our rapidly expanding operations, we created Inside Call Me Back, our members-only feed. If Call Me Back has been meaningful to you and you want to be part of what we're building, I hope you'll join us. Your contribution goes a long way in helping us show up when it matters most.

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1:04Welcome to Inside Call Me Back, our members-only edition where we open the door and let you shape the conversation. My name is Ilan Benatar, the producer of the Call Me Back Podcast, and today in the hot seat addressing your questions and personal dilemmas is my partner in crime, ARK Media's very own Dan Sinor. Dan, welcome to the inside. How are you, Alon? How am I? Do you really want to know? I don't want to know. Actually, that was a bad question for me to ask. Let me just say, it's good to see you. Thank you. Well, to those who are not seeing me, I'm sitting here with the sling. That's why I'm asking.

1:37It's almost 10 a.m. and I did not wake up for this recording because I was under the influence of some very powerful drugs. I mean, it's prescription drugs, but they're just very strong painkillers because I have a shoulder thing that if I don't take it, I don't sleep. And therefore I had to take them and I did not wake up for this session. So here we are. Exactly. But I promise to be coherent, even if Alain won't be. I promise to make up for his lack of coherence. If there is lack of coherence, I'm not saying there will be. I'm not trying to prejudge. I'm not trying to prejudge our highly medicated moderator this morning.

2:14Right. It's the first inside coming back that's under the influence. Let's put it that way. Exactly. That's funny. Why don't I bring something from your past 24 hours? It was a big day for the Sinor family yesterday, wasn't it? Yeah. We sent our son off to Israel for the year. Our oldest son, who's doing a gap year in Israel. It was bittersweet. You know, I'm hearing from all these families that are dropping their kids off at college, and it's very emotional. And these parents are talking about this is like the first real separation with kids. I don't feel that way. You know, obviously, our son is pursuing something very independently.

2:54It's a choice he made. But the fact that he's spending a year in Israel as an expression of that journey, in a sense, he's away. And yet it feels very much he feels very much at home. Okay, Dan, well, let's jump into the questions from our community. Evan from Atlanta, Georgia asks, Last week, a listener asked, Why shouldn't Israel agree to having a Palestinian state under conditions that Palestinians would never agree to? In his answer, Amit mentioned Ben Gvir's one-state solution, annexing the West Bank and Gaza. Ironically, a one-state solution is what the far left argues for as well, albeit with equal rights.

3:34Say what you will about the extremes, they both offer some kind of solution, while moderates, both in Israel and in the diaspora, offer none. Doesn't that passive position just cede ground to the extremes, who then moderates complain about? Thank you, Evan, for that. I'll say a couple things. I think there's a tendency to create some kind of equivalence between the positions of the extremes on both sides of the conflict in the region, or both sides between left and right, And while there is something to that, I think it ignores a very important structural difference. What I mean by that is I think both sides have a tendency to point to the position of the extreme and say that's why there's a problem.

4:14The reason that doesn't really work structurally is because the extremes don't tell you much. You need to ask yourself, where's the consensus? Where's the consensus in either side? So if you look at historically, the consensus on the Israeli side, on the center left and the center right, has been for two-state solution within a series of conditions, of course, but for two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict so long as this new independent Palestinian state did not pose a security threat to Israel. So this has basically been where Israeli society has been. Find us an interlocutor on the Palestinian side that can deliver calm and stability and will help us ensure that a Palestinian state will not pose a threat to Israel.

4:58And you will be shocked by how far Israelis are willing to go to reach that kind of accommodation with that interlocutor. There have been two limitations that have always prevented this from happening. One, there has been no interlocutor who either was operating in good faith on the Palestinian side, or even if they were operating in good faith, and there have been some actually, they didn't have enough political capital within Palestinian society to deliver on those commitments. And so it's for a variety of reasons, including those, but not only those, that's where things have broken down. I think where Israelis are now is, forget about where our consensus is, the Israelis will say, where's the Palestinian consensus?

5:36So the Palestinian consensus is not for a two-state solution right now. Now, that could change, but I'm just saying right now. And so it's a structural problem. It's like the extreme position on the Palestinian side is the consensus position. I don't believe the extreme position on the Israeli side is the consensus position. I think the Israeli position generally has moved right, certainly post-October 7th. If you told the Israeli middle, there can and should be a Palestinian entity that the Palestinians will accept as sovereign entity, but it'll be sovereignty minus. They won't have total control of security over the border.

6:13There will have to be some kind of buffer. Israel will not have to rely on Palestinian security forces to help protect its own security. This Palestinian state won't necessarily have air superiority over its entity. There may be limitations on whether or not this state has an airport. So it's not full sovereignty, but it is some kind of independent entity. You know, I think that's probably where the Israeli middle is now. But the Israeli middle, the Israeli consensus, I think you're going to see reflected in the outcome of this next election is just not where the extremes are. The extremes get a lot of attention.

6:44They get most of the attention. They're the shiny object. But I just don't think that's where the Israeli consensus is. But Dan, this is what Evan is saying. Evan is saying the middle solution is saying there is no solution. And, you know, we moved away from that consensus that you spoke about. What he's arguing very effectively, I think, is the only people who are coming forth with a solution, whether you agree with it or don't agree with it, are the far left and the far right, who are both offering a one state solution with one big difference. There are no voting rights or there's no equal rights, which I agree with you that most Israelis would be horrified by.

7:23What he's asking, doesn't that passive position just cede ground to the extremes who then moderates complain about. Because if we don't have a position, you basically, the only position that's out there is a one state solution, either from the river to the sea or annexation. So I think 30, 40 days before an election is the wrong time to ask the question about where the Israeli consensus is because on the questions that are being debated in the election, they are boiled down to the most simplistic, most binary, least nuanced ways in which policy debates are actually normally settled in the course of governing.

8:00So I think if your question is right now, take a snapshot, is basically every political party that matters in Israel today against a Palestinian state, then the answer to Evan is yes. I don't think that's reflective. So then fast forward to a new government being formed of the center left, of the center right, or some kind of national unity government. if that government is presented with the option that there could be an independent Palestinian quote-unquote state that has authority over civil affairs in that entity that makes some kind of consensus that Israel will still be responsible for security at the border and there'll be some buffer these other conditions I laid out but the Palestinians having that kind of independent entity and that entity would satisfy the Saudis and other players in the region that Palestinian self-determination is being addressed in some way, and that could also lead to Saudi normalization with Israel, that'd be one of the boxes checked that the Saudis need.

8:55Do I think that's where the Israeli consensus would be and would be acceptable to the Israeli consensus? I think right now, yes. But trying to ask that question in the context of a right before an election and everything is yes, no, and where do you stand on the most simplest soundbite? That's not a serious way to like ask where the Israeli public is. I think that the answer to his question, doesn't that passive position, see ground to the extremes? The answer is probably yes, until maybe it becomes less politically dangerous, which is after the elections. I can imagine a new government laying out a pathway for some Palestinian independence that will sound like a quote unquote proposal or plan, not necessarily saying I'm for that proposal or plan, but I can imagine a new government is going to Washington and going to Brussels and going to Arab capitals and say, this is our vision for a path to Palestinian self-determination.

9:46This is what it looks like. These are our conditions. This is how we achieve it. Here's a multi-year plan. I can imagine a new government laying that out. And then I think it counters Evan's concern that no one's putting anything forward. Okay. All right, let's move on to Michelle from Rochester, New York. Hi, Dan. I'm a big fan of the show. Guys, you don't need to qualify yourselves by saying you're big fans of the show. We appreciate it. We assume if you're an insider, you're a big fan of the show, but it's always nice to hear. It's always nice to hear. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not going to deny Michelle from Rochester.

10:18Well, I'll put it this way. It doesn't affect which questions we pick. Yeah, that's true. Michelle from Rochester, New York writes, Hi, Dan. I'm a big fan of the show, and I haven't missed an episode since October 8th. In a recent episode with Amit, another Amit episode, you asked him, what was the one thing he changed his mind on? Amit gave a sincere answer that he now thinks that a purely right-wing government is a mistake. the obvious follow-up never came up so I'll ask it myself. What is one thing that you have changed your mind on during this war? It's a great question, Michelle. In a sense, I appreciate your not letting me off the hook, although it was very fun for me not to let Amit off the hook, but I didn't realize you turned the tables on me.

11:03Saul Singer and I wrote this book called The Genius of Israel. That's it for our sneak peek today. If you want to catch the full episode, please subscribe to Inside Call Me Back by following the link in the description or by going to arkmedia.org. That's A-R-K-M-E-D-I-A dot org. Your support is what allows us to do what we do here at Ark Media. I hope to see you there.