5 Scripts When Kids Argue, Prove Their Point, Won't Relent. #568

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3:31These are kids you can tell them, like, do not put your foot up on that chair. and they will stare you right in your eyes as they tap their toe on that chair and then argue with you for 45 minutes that they didn't really use their foot. It was their toe and the toe is not the foot. I know because we had 1 ,500 of these kids in our home over the course of a decade and this was our son Casey as well. So I want to give you at least five different ways to respond to these kids, these junior attorneys in your home. And that is what we're going to discuss on today's special episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast.

4:12Special for two reasons. One, it is my birthday and I was thinking, what do I really want to talk about? Like what really animates me? And I thought, oh, this topic, I love this because I think we can turn this into a positive. And then the second reason is this. We have a lot of new listeners to the podcast. A lot of people are emailing like, oh, we missed your Black Friday sale. So here's what I decided to do because it is my birthday month. It's my company. I can do whatever I want. We are doing a Black Friday sale in March. Why? Because I want to. Because people will like that. Because that means more people will get our resources and stop the power struggles and stop the fights of spouses and get along with your kids.

4:55and it just is also something I know people are always like why are you doing that because I'm like your kids I want to do what I want to do and if I want to do a Black Friday sale in March that's what we're doing so let's dig into this with some different ways I used to handle this with Casey and all the kids we worked with so you have kids who will come at you sometimes over very small things and they're often very specific and I really like this approach. You don't have to say yes. You don't have to agree with your kids but the next time they put together a really kind of well-reasoned argument over something say hey you know what I just noticed?

5:42I mean your argument shows that you have listened to me, that you understand what my objections are. You then came back with a well-reasoned reply, which shows a lot of strategic thinking, good critical thinking skills. You are anticipating my objections. By the way, this is what a great salesperson does. You are very persuasive. You communicate well. and by the way, you're very, very precise. And do you know, by the way, you're not gonna do this in one long litany because your kids are gonna be like, why don't you guys just shut up? So I get that. But what I'm saying, I'm putting this together for the podcast.

6:23But over time, in different situations, I want to point these things out. Why? Because they're all true. And the fact that your child is precise, one other time you could say, hey, you know what I've noticed lately is when you make these arguments and make your case, you are very, very precise. And what that tells me is, man, there are a lot of jobs out there that require that kind of precision. An attorney, an architect, an engineer, a dentist, an accountant. That's a great quality. So you can say all of those things and still say, hey, the answer is still no. But I do respect and appreciate your thought process.

7:05and I can see how all of these different attributes and skills, they're really going to help you in your life. Now, that's a lot better than saying, why can't you just take no for an answer? Why can't you just be content? Why can't you just be compliant and a little sheep like our other kids? I get it. I get it that they're frustrating. I do. But why is this such a bad trait? Why? Why? Look, I just pointed out probably seven or eight different positive aspects of that. And I'll show you in a little bit how to use that to your advantage. But why is this such a bad trait? Why does it trigger you so much?

7:50That's the real question. And as always, even on my birthday, we're going to find out. This isn't really about your kids so much. So much of it is about us. And you know, no blame, no guilt, but own it. could it be for some of you that you were not allowed to express yourself to your own parents as a kid and now this brings all of that up and it's like I got shut down as a kid and then for some of you it's a little bit of guilt or just wondering like gosh we weren't allowed to talk back to our parents it was just like because I said so and so now you're struggling are we letting them get away with things when they're arguing like this.

8:32And I want you to deal with your own triggers. Now, next Sunday, a week from today, I'm going to do a special podcast on healing some of those childhood wounds. So just listen to that when that comes out. But really wrestle with this a little bit because otherwise, you'll just walk around complaining about them for the first 18 years of their life and probably longer about like, oh, they're a little attorney. They can never take no for an answer. By the way, it's a great quality for a salesperson. Okay. Number two, this was one of my favorites because Casey, man, he, Casey never walked. He marched, he marches into a room and you could see his body posture, his eyes on fire.

9:17He just wanted to argue and I've been through this before. So I'm not going to do this one a lot, but a lot of times what he was looking for was my intense emotional engagement because that feeds these kids and you know what I was just thinking about this because Casey had some uh some of his friends over last week and uh he invited me over to hang out with them because I like learning from them and they're just I just love his friends they're awesome and I was talking to this one couple and I was like hey how do you guys argue because they're both like strong personalities and the uh The wife said, well, I just want to deal with it right away.

9:55Like, I want to talk about it. And her husband was like, no, I need to go back to my room so I don't say something I don't mean. And Casey jumped in. He's like, yeah, I'm like her. I want to deal with it right away. And to be honest, all through his childhood, whenever we had conflict or weren't getting along, Casey would come to me. He's like, Dad, we need to talk. We need to make this right. And so just know sometimes. I've done that a lot. They're looking for that intense emotional engagement. so I don't react to them. I just say, I know what you're looking for right now, arguing, I'm not gonna go in the courtroom, but I will go to the garage and make this with you.

10:32I'll go out and play catch with you. We'll go play guitar, whatever it is. I will give you my intense emotional engagement, but only in positive ways. So here's what I really wanted to get to. Sometimes I would just look at Casey and say, you know what, you're absolutely right. And then I would walk away. Now, part of it was, I just wanted, I know you, I don't want you to provoke your kids, but sometimes I just wanted to say that to see how his face would respond to like, you're right. He's like, no, I'm not argue with me. And then I would transition to, hey, I know what you're after. Let's get this in a positive way.

11:08Sometimes I would say, hey, look, here's something I found in LifeCase. Relationships are more important than being right because no one likes to know it all, especially wives. So that's another way that you could handle that, but don't do it in a provoking way too much. Okay, number three, sometimes, and I can use all of these kind of in tandem, I just say like, hey, I hear you, but what are you really after? What do you really want? What do you really need from this because I can hear what you're asking me for or telling me to do, but I'm trying to hear what's really beneath this. And sometimes they just want to feel heard or to know, hey, your point is legitimate.

11:58That is a really good point of view. It's a really good argument. Now, I don't agree or I'm not going to give in. I'm not going to give you what you want, but I do hear you and that you are making a legitimate case for that. And sometimes they just want us to agree with them. And that's why sometimes I would say, I do agree with you, but that doesn't mean you get to do X or Y. Now, sometimes with your kids, it's a justice and fairness issue because many of your kids have a very high degree, strong sense of justice and fairness. And that's related to that very, very busy brain and things feel kind of chaotic and out of their control and and that's why they like to control other people put acorns in their pockets cheat at games all a search for order and structure and justice and fairness is well that was right or that was wrong and i need to show that and it like tidies everything up in a box and i remember at one point i did this with a lot of kids at our camp actually because they would get upset at the other kids that's not fair he got to do this and I used to try to explain to them how life works and all those things but they weren't looking to be convinced and sometimes too much talking like this just doesn't work so I remember and a lot of this stuff I just tried based on a hunch and then I was like oh that works so looking at your child and being able to say I hear you you are not incorrect you do want this you did make your case for why that is not just or why that isn't fair.

13:37But I can't do anything about that, and neither can you. It's just the way it is. So what I'm willing to do is to discuss and problem solve what we can do with the understanding that we're not going to make it fair. And sometimes just saying, I know you want fairness. I can't give that to you. that sometimes with a strong-willed child can be very settling and you've heard me talk about giving kids positive intensity because you know what sometimes when we get into those long explanations it just creates more anxiety and instability so what about um i i just remembered a cool story let me tell you uh that one it's not going to fit into these five but it's a cool story You know your child better than anyone.

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15:09They're experts in treating all eating disorders, even lesser-known ones like ARFID. There's no wait list. It's covered by most insurance plans. And you can talk to an expert right away to get answers. So if something in your gut is telling you to look deeper, listen to it. Visit equip.health.com to get a free consultation with Equip. That's equip.health.com. So we talk all the time about giving our kids adult responsibilities. And many of our kids love cooking. It's sensory, it's creative, and it makes them feel grown up. So let your kids order a couple Hungry Root meals every week, and then they can be the chef on those nights.

15:50The Hungry Root recipes are super easy. Even I can fix them. and they come with the right portions so it's not overwhelming. Your kids will look forward to getting home from school and finding their Hungry Root box there. It gives them some autonomy over food and they can work for tips. Get clean, healthy meals customized for your family's preferences delivered to your door to save you precious time. You're going to love Hungry Root as much as we do. Go to HungryRoot.com slash calm. Use code CALM to get 40 % off your first box. Plus, get a free item in every box for life. That's HungryRoot.com slash CALM.

16:29Code CALM to get 40 % off your first box. HungryRoot.com slash CALM. Code CALM. Casey and his wife just got an ottoman with storage inside from Wayfair.com. It fits their decor perfectly. But I really think they got it so I can put my feet up and relax while they serve us dessert. In the special dessert glasses, we conveniently bought them from Wayfair. Yeah, I know that's self-serving, but to be fair, that espresso maker we bought them from Wayfair for Christmas has contributed to a lot of great moods for them. Our homes have completely different styles and layouts, but with Wayfair, we can find multiple options for everything we need.

17:13and that accommodates any budget. Spring has come early to the mountains out here, so we've already picked out outdoor furniture because that means laughs, special memories, and grilling out. Find furniture, decor, and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. so when casey's about 11 12 13 he came to me and he's like dad i think i deserve a later curfew and i was like well of course you do like it would be weird if you didn't argue for a later curfew but i said case i'm not going to argue i'm not going to decide it now because we did have a rule in our home that any big decisions tough choice kind of tough uh problems that we had we would take 24 to 48 hours.

18:06It was typically 48 hours, then we'll discuss it because everybody can calm down. And sometimes after that initial kind of burst, it's like the desire for certain things goes away and it's teaching impulse control. And I said, Case, I'm not gonna make a decision now. Here's what I wanna know from you. What can you do to earn a later curfew? I wanted to put it back in his court. Now, he never really came back to me and talked to me, But I noticed the next few times that he came home, his curfew had been nine o 'clock. And so he was coming home at like 8.57, 8.52, 8.58. And I was like, hey, what's up with this whole coming home early thing?

18:46And here were his exact words. Dad, I wanted to prove to you that I can control myself so you don't have to. and I was like oh that's either really good wisdom or the most manipulative thing I have ever heard in my life and it was probably a little bit of both but you know what when we started talking he said dad I know you're a stickler for these things I didn't want you to have to worry about me being late because I know my friends do that and it drives their parents crazy so I started coming home early to demonstrate that I am responsible and I said case that was brilliant really well done your new curfew 9 15 and his response was seriously dad i deserve 10 o 'clock based on that i said case you keep doing that the more responsible you are the later your curfew is and he worked his way up there but that was a way of handling the argument where you put it back in their court okay now here's a really cool one so you've got a relentless arguer who just comes at you again and again and again.

19:53So I'm going to tell you a quick story. So I remember back in the day, I come home from work and Casey's on me right away. Dad, you've got to take me to store. I've got to get this new game. I've got to get it. You've got to take me. And I said, Casey, you know, I don't do demanding, but dad, it's first day out. I really want to get this. All my friends have it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I was like, I get it not happening. And so I went upstairs to change and just to try to buy some time. Well, you know what our kids are like, right? They are going to, you can go up and you can lock your bedroom door.

20:24They will go outside, climb up through the second floor window and come in and just keep going after you. And so I get that. So that's kind of what he did, not through the second floor window. But he comes up. And so I remember the look on his face and he is fully invested in this. And I remember looking at him saying, I know exactly what you want. and what I really respect and admire about you is you're persistent because when you want something, oh, you go for it. And you had planned out today what you were going to say to me because you knew that I wouldn't want to do it and I'd have objections to it.

21:07And man, that is really good strategic thinking. And in my head, I was like, I just wish you would put a little bit of that energy into your schoolwork, but I didn't say it. You think it, but you don't say it with these kids. so I said Casey I've seen this movie play out in our home like 43 times here's how it works you get an idea you get really emotionally invested in it you want to do it and then you become the bulldog the attack dog and you and I and I really love those traits but here's how it always end you keep going and going and going and you don't hear me and you eventually call me a name.

21:44You eventually go over the line. And so not only do you not get to go to the store to get your new video games or whatever you want, you lose privileges with your video games you already have and you end up upset. And so I don't think you want this movie to end that way again. See what I'm doing? I'm reading life. I've been around the block. I've seen how this works. Here's how it's about to end. You're going to be upset and crying and lose the things that you like most. But I want to give you an option to rewrite a different ending to this story. See, there's that ownership piece. I'm putting this back in your court.

22:26Here's how we could do it differently. And I said, Casey, here are two things I know about you. You have a really big heart, not toward me or your mom, but toward, I'm kidding, but I'm not kidding. That's true. Don't say that. But you have a really big heart because you'll do anything for a homeless person or one of your friends and you love money because our kids it's not a bad thing they're like born entrepreneurs so here's an idea i'm going to go downstairs and get started on dinner if you want to come talk to me we could brainstorm three different ways for you to earn some money in this neighborhood with a side job and with that money you can buy those games yourself and so I walked away and gave him some space and gave myself some space sometimes I would disappear into the bathroom and act like I was going to the bathroom or shower because he didn't want to come in and watch me either of those things and so it gave a little space but I put it back in his court and it wasn't just it just wasn't me getting frustrated I can't believe you already have enough video games.

23:31Why can't you be content with what you have? Why do you always have to push me? Stop taking it personally. I want to teach. Case, I know what you want. I know what's going on. Here's a different way to get it. And this is really, really cool. Part of the reason I wanted to do this particular podcast is, and here's a shout out to my friend Max. And Max is a kid like so many of our kids, and his parents let him listen to our podcast, and then they talk about it a little bit. but Max was listening to Casey's program. It's in the Get Everything package, one of the 16 programs that you get. But one of the things Casey teaches kids is that principle.

24:10Hey, if you can control yourself, your parents won't have to. And Max went to his parents and said, hey, I want to apologize because I realize now I've just been pushing you and arguing all the time and it's not working well. what can I begin doing differently to prove to you that I can earn so to speak that later curfew see it's cool when you equip your kids with tools of how their brains work and show them ways they can be successful in doing this it takes a little bit of time but you know what it takes a whole lot less time than arguing and being frustrated and sending them to their rooms so follow those processes the final one which is kind of my favorite is this casey was a little bit older and he was um uh had put together basically a powerpoint presentation not quite but kind of on why he should be allowed to go to this special kind of overnight thing with his friends and we had been back and forth on it and he was handling it actually pretty well he wasn't like you're stupid, all those things.

25:24We were having a pretty good discussion, but he was really adamant about that. And so there's a lot to this, but there's one basic question that I want to get to. But you know, one of the things I did during that time, I didn't dismiss it. Oh, you know what? It's no big deal. There'll be other opportunities. See, that's dismissive. When you're a teenager and you have a chance to sleep over, do stuff with your friends, that is the most important thing in your world. and it should be. So I would acknowledge that and say, Case, I understand all your friends are going to be there and you're going to be feel left out and alone and maybe embarrassed because your parents wouldn't let you go to it.

26:01Like that's hard. Sometimes acknowledging that is extremely helpful. It doesn't always solve it, but you should do it anyway. But anyway, we were going back and forth and back and forth over this. And I remember we were kind of at a standstill. Now, here's the deal. I'm the dad. You're the dad. You're the mom. We're the authority figures. I have the ultimate say, but I don't like pulling out that just, well, because I said so. It's kind of immature in some ways, right? And so I didn't want to just call that out. And so I remember looking at Casey and this story always chokes me up because we had battled for years and years, right?

26:39Like it was part of my transformation of growing and him growing and us learning this together because we were kind of so much alike in some ways and so much not alike. And so we had this history. And I remember I looked at him and I said, Casey, see, I almost choked up there. Casey, do you trust me? And what I meant was, do you trust that I have your best interests at heart, that I'm not just doing this because I'm some arbitrary authority figure in your dad? God, do you trust that I love you enough that I will sometimes say no to you because it's the best thing for you, even though you're going to be mad at me?

27:20And I'm going to risk, after all we've been through, I'm going to risk our relationship being ruptured for a few days or a couple weeks. Do you trust me? And it was, it almost, again, I apologize, but I can remember this was a long time ago. And yet the feelings are there, the look on his face when he just said, I know you do, Dad. I know you do. And he walked away. And he didn't argue with me anymore. He didn't like it. He wasn't happy. but what it ultimately came to wasn't like I won the argument I got my way it wasn't that it was that there was a relationship there there was trust there and he knew it deep inside that I always had his back and and that was it was one of the more beautiful moments of our relationship where uh many weeks many months later actually he came to me and he said dad dad, I just want you to know a couple of my friends got in trouble that night.

28:26And I didn't want to tell you that back then, but you saved me from that. And I'm glad that I was able to trust you. And then I think he came and asked me for something else because that's how our kids are, right? Like it's beautiful. And then there's like, wait, you don't stop at all. So let's kind of put this together. There's so many different ways that we can use this. And you may get tired of me hearing like as an opportunity. opportunity next time your kids are arguing with you use it as an opportunity to point out like man you listen it's well reasoned you communicate well you're persuasive you're precise you can use that in so many professions you can say at times hey you're right about that relationships are more important than being right put it in their court sometimes and remember that justice and fairness no i can't do anything about that and neither can you and so you're asking them to grow up and say hey you're just gonna have to deal with that because that's reality and i can't make everything better or more fair in life which is a very honest statement and then remember what my friend max i gotta mention name twice max because this is a cool kid but he came to his parents and said i heard what casey said about controlling myself what can i begin doing around the house to show that you can trust me.

29:45And then that final question is, hey, do you trust me? Do you trust me? Remember, it always comes back to the relationship. It's not about some kind of technique. I like giving scripts, but at the end of the day, it's the relationship. So take advantage of that Black Friday and March sale, celebrate calm.com. You will get 35, 36 hours worth of strategies and insights. Anyway, if you need help with that, reach out to Casey. Thank you for listening. Thank you for indulging me. This is the podcast I want to do, and I love doing this one. So I hope you found it helpful. We'll see you on Instagram, and watch for the one next week.

30:25I think the next podcast I'm going to do on really tough discipline tools, and then on the healing childhood wounds. Moms and dads, thanks for working so hard at this. I know it's really hard. You're breaking generational patterns, and I'm really proud of you, and I really respect you for it. Thank you.