Disciplining & Loving Kids When They REALLY Mess Up : A Guide to Tough Talks & Tough Love #631

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2:17So what should you do if your child sneaks food or screens late at night? If a child has stolen your credit card for online purchases, how do you approach your teen or tween when you discover beer cans under their bed, a vaping pen in their backpack, or porn on their phone? Because when you ask your kids these tough questions, they often respond with a lie, a horribly made-up excuse, or the typical, I don't know. And parents, you're understandably scared, angry, and confused. and this actually makes the situation much worse because then your child will become even more sneaky, hide things, or shut down completely, and we don't want that.

2:55So I'm updating this podcast episode based on some real-life scenarios and comments from parents over the past year. Here's one. Hey, when we listened to that episode on kids sneaking things, we thought, oh, that'll never happen to us. We're good parents. We're on top of things. And then about four months later, it happened out of the blue. And we freaked out at first, but then we remembered this episode and listened to it again. It saved us from rushing in with accusations and making it worse. Our daughter actually owned up to her impulsive decision to steal our credit cards and came up with a plan to pay us back.

3:37I want to give you a framework and scripts so you can have tough talks with your kids about tough subjects. And I want you to solve problems instead of creating worse ones. So that is what we're going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. Welcome. This is Kirk Martin. I'm also host of the PDA Parent Podcast. And you can find that at celebratecalm.com. And I would consider letting your kids listen to this episode. There are no parenting secrets here. There's no manipulation. And I'd ask you to share this episode on Instagram or Facebook so we can help other parents. So here's the hard part.

4:15As modern parents, you're going to have to deal with things your parents didn't have to. Easy access to porn, screen addictions, earlier onset of puberty and talk about sex, vaping, and much more. And you should be alarmed and scared and angry when your kids mess up. Before you react and create a defensive response from your child, listen to this episode a couple times so you can have a specific script and action plan in place. My larger goal is to make sure that you become the trusted resource your child feels comfortable talking to about all these different issues. Because if you overreact, lecture, or shame, your kids are going to find out all kinds of wrong information from friends and social media.

5:04Here's what I do not want to do. Do not go in with the harsh accusatory old school approach. You know, what were you thinking? How many times we told you? Why would you do something like this? Do you know how upset we are? Explain why you did that. Well, what are you expecting your child to say? Well, Dad, my hormones are raging and I'm socially awkward. But you gave me this phone where I can see videos of naked women for free. So I thought I'd check it out. And I was embarrassed to come to you for obvious reasons. By the end of this podcast, I want to show you how a career military dad actually handled this.

5:39Look, none of those responses are helpful. It will cause your child to get better at hiding things from you and doing things in secret. And I also don't want to use that overly sweet voice because it sounds condescending, kind of like you're excusing the behavior. So in these cases, very decisive action and serious consequences will be part of the remedy to send a clear message that this behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated or excused. But that's where most parents stop. But unfortunately, external consequences don't under, they don't address the underlying reason your kids are engaging in this behavior.

6:20And that's what I'm really after. So a couple of general principles first. In situations like these, talk one-on-one with your child. Your kids usually feel teamed up on, like everyone is against them anyway, and they're going to be embarrassed. So one-on-one conversations are more constructive. Plus, it just gets too heavy when both parents are there with concerned looks on their faces. Now look, the exception could be when you're talking about activities that are life-threatening, but for the most part, one-on-one. Come alongside and teach. Protect, don't punish. Just think about this. When your kids were infants and about to bump their heads or fall down stairs as they were navigating this new world, what did we do?

7:05We lifted them up and we redirected them to safety without them even being aware of it. Our instinct was to protect, not punish. We didn't start screaming at them, stop being curious and exploring. Why are you doing that? But as our kids get older, we tend to shift toward punishing. It's like we get indignant, frustrated, and angry because they're making our life more difficult and triggering our anxiety. Instead, we need to come alongside to help them navigate their way through life. So let's work our way up from behaviors from younger kids that are less serious to more serious activities by your teens and tweens.

7:46So, child sneaking food or electronics late at night. I would be shocked if this did not happen at some point with your kids. So you can probably count on this. And I've noticed a general pattern as well that many adopted kids really struggle in this area. Seems like there's this endless bucket inside of them that needs to be filled. And I recorded two episodes about a raising adopted kids recently. So just look those up. We're on. Well, you're listening. You know where we are. So, number one, normalize it and don't be shocked. I mean, why wouldn't an impulsive kid want to keep playing video games or sneak food late at night?

8:27I think it's fine to say, of course you'd want to sneak your iPad in the middle of the night. Who wouldn't want to play something that fun? Normalizing isn't excusing. It doesn't mean you encourage them to do it more or let them off the hook. It simply recognizes that this is pretty normal behavior and you're not shocked. Now, obviously, this is followed by an even matter of fact. Hey, I understand why you'd want to do this, but you know it's unacceptable in our home. Number two, then be curious. Discover the root of it. Why is your child seeking these things out? So instead of an interrogation, why would you do this?

9:05How many times have we told you that just elicits a defensive response? Be genuinely curious. Be that detective. You're coming alongside your child to help your child, not punish or entrap them. Hey, so I'm curious. Do you kind of like the challenge of planning and sneaking the food or the iPad? Do you like the strategic planning of knowing when we'll be asleep so you can sneak downstairs? When you do get up in the middle of the night, Is that a huge rush or thrill to do something you know is against the rules? Do you like the thrill of getting away with it, using your strategic thinking skills to outsmart us?

9:46When you grab that food or iPad, what does that feel like? So you know this provides a dopamine hit and stimulates their brains. And you've heard me talk about their need for intensity. Now, part of it is simply that they're impulsive, but it can be helpful for them to know exactly what they get out of this inside. So instead of merely thinking that they're some rebellious bad kid, they start to understand, oh yeah, I really like intensity. I like using my strategic thinking skills. I like that brain stimulation. So number three, now I can problem solve. See, if you can establish the needs that are being met by sneaking things, you can provide lots of alternatives to get that same brain stimulation.

10:35Hey, here's something else I know and really admire about you. You have a big heart and you love earning money, like a born entrepreneur. Since your brain craves that intensity and brain stimulation, why don't we put your energy into starting a couple little businesses in the neighborhood? Then you can earn money, invest some, give some away to help kids with cancer. I'll even match part of the amount you invest and donate to charity. So now I'm providing a different positive way to meet these needs. So brainstorm some different options. Maybe it's some sort of physical challenge they want to throw themselves into, some larger goal that will motivate them.

11:18It could be a service project. Number four, give a consequence. Now you'll notice I didn't lead with consequences. That's because consequences are largely ineffective at changing our kids' behavior because they usually don't get to the root of the issue. And I didn't want to send the message that it's some game now of trying to get around consequences. I wanted to lead with teaching and problem solving. In this case, well, you can lock away the iPad for two weeks where they physically cannot find it or get into it. But here's a warning. Some of your kids will see this as an even bigger challenge to pick that lock.

11:58So make sure you're filling that internal need with different challenges, not just taking stuff away, but what can you add? So with that said, let's do an example in which I would impose a severe consequence. So you wake up one morning or a week later, you notice some odd charges on your credit card statement that you don't recognize. So you call your credit card company, it becomes apparent that your child use your credit card to spend, let's say,$150 online buying some gains. You'll be angry and frustrated, of course, as you should be. In this case, I don't think it's as much about the need for brain stimulation as it is about an impulsive kid wanting what he wants in that moment.

12:41So I would actually lead with a no-nonsense, decisive consequence and expect your child to lie and deny that he or she did this. It's just human nature. Don't be freaked out like that about that stuff. So the computer, the video games are immediately taken away and locked up. Your child must do work around the house and outside the home because they can do odd jobs for neighbors to pay back the$150 they stole. Additionally, and this is my own personal view, what I would actually do, I would tack on an extra$50 fine to pay for your time spent calling your credit card company and to send a very clear message.

13:22I do want this to hurt in the sense that they will be miserable. So day after day, it reinforces, hey, this can never happen again. And no, I would not be satisfied with tears and reassurances that I'll never do this again. it has nothing to do with being mean or vindictive. You are just taking decisive action. It's a huge gift to your kids. It's like if your child continually speeds after being told they cannot do so, you take decisive action. You take away the driver's license. If you get them drinking or doing drugs, you take decisive action. You take away their driver's license for a month or whatever you decide.

14:03Endless talks and lectures and trying to convince them not to do this never work. They chose this. You didn't. So with stolen credit cards, I'd lead with a matter-of-fact consequence. But later on, I also role-play with them. Hey, I want you to practice coming to me and asking me if you can purchase X or Y. I want them to learn to ask and also learn how to handle you frequently saying no. I want them to learn if they want something, they have to earn it or problem-solve with you. I would also continue to practice impulse control with your kids because it is something that requires practice. And if you do have our programs, listen to the updated Discipline That Works program because we go through a whole section on impulse control.

14:50So let's do some examples of the deeper approach to say vaping, drinking, porn, and more. We're at the grocery store the other day and a nice young couple smiles and points to their cart. and I see Cure hydrating electrolyte packets in there. It's funny. They didn't mention the podcast or parenting. They were just happy their kids began the school year drinking Cure instead of expensive sports drinks that are loaded with sugar. And they said, our kids think it's a special treat because they love the kids' flavors. So they're drinking more water. That's a big win for our kids. Finally, something delicious you can feel good about giving your kids.

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17:29With healthy ingredients at a fraction of the cost in less than 15 minutes with virtually no cleanup. It makes mealtime fun without the stress. You're going to love Hungry Root as much as we do. For a limited time, get 40 % off your first order. Plus, get a free item in every box for life. So go to HungryRoot.com and use code CALM. That's HungryRoot.com slash calm, code calm, to get 40 % off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. So here's the process I would encourage you to go through with more serious issues. And I'm going to lump together kids who are caught vaping, drinking, getting high, or watching porn.

18:12I know they're not the same, but the process is similar. And although it is normal for kids to experiment It's right to be alarmed, frightened, and angry These behaviors have real consequences that can be devastating Addiction, adverse health outcomes, getting expelled from school Car accidents, poor decisions, all of that So obviously you clearly communicate that it's unacceptable in your home Because it's dangerous You can impose a curfew, take away the driver's license Restrict use of any screens in your child's bedroom They can only use screens in common living areas. I would contact your doctor or pediatrician and consider contacting a local treatment center for advice.

18:55Your child may need help from a therapist who specializes in anxiety, teen addiction, pornography, or any of those things. So pursue all those different routes. You can also normalize this to some degree. Hey, I understand why you would be curious about pornography, drinking, etc. What I most want is to help my child understand why he or she is doing this and discover healthier ways to meet those internal needs. Here are just a few root causes to consider. Broken relationships with the home. Like if dad and son don't get along, using substances can cover that pain or they may be a way to get back at a parent the child is angry at.

19:41So don't discount this one. broken relationships with peers. Look, a child like ours who struggles to connect with peers and does something like this, they may be doing it to fit in, kind of like how they act silly in class just to fit in. Kids who are socially awkward may be more drawn to porn as well. Broken relationship with a girlfriend or boyfriend. People use alcohol and drugs to escape this pain of a heartache. Brain stimulation or dopamine hit. Our kids are very vulnerable to this since they generally seek intensity and brain stimulation and to relieve anxiety. Our kids are acutely susceptible to this because many struggle with anxiety.

20:24And we hear this a lot from kids who vape or drink or get high. Well, it helps me relieve my anxiety. It helps me calm down or get to sleep. and I think it's helpful and reasonable to identify with your teen or tween struggles if appropriate and say, oh, I can see how that would help with anxiety or fitting in with your friends. That's just an honest statement. How many of us as adults drink a glass of wine to relax or ease into social situations? I'm not saying it's right for your child to do this, just that it makes sense and I don't want to overreact because that will kill honest discussions and likely cause your child to hide this even more.

21:06So the next step is to find constructive ways to meet the internal needs the child was trying to meet. Stimulating the brain, relieving anxiety, building friendships, confidence, a sense of purpose. So number one, what are positive, healthy ways you can relieve your anxiety and stress? Exercise, perspective, meditation, going to a youth group. I personally would offer and even perhaps require that my child begin working out with me several days a week because that helps with anxiety and stress and connection. You could bond by asking your child to develop a workout routine for you to get back in shape.

21:44I've had many families pay a college kid to train your child at the gym. Our kids would love that kind of mentor. Number two, if your child struggles socially to fit in with peers, that can drive him or her to take risks or do activities to appear cool. Listen to the episode from July on social skills to learn 12 ways to help your kids connect with peers. Because even finding one good friend or a mentor can build confidence. Number three, use the mission and mentor process. Here's the shortcut answer. I really want to get teens and tweens doing one constructive activity helping another adult. I would pay an elderly neighbor to ask your child to come help them do a couple jobs around their house.

22:32It gives your kids some connection with someone who is older and grounded. It helps them feel a sense of purpose like they have something to give. And I want your kids using their gifts and passions to help animals, younger kids, seniors, service projects, starting a side business, helping someone in a neighborhood. Those are all grounding activities that build connection, confidence, and purpose. And that also helps with anxiety as well. Number four, you can normalize how tough life can be. That you still struggle with the inevitable stressors of a job, raising a family, peer pressure, like even in your 40s.

23:11Share how you handle the stress and anxiety in positive ways. Maybe you can begin doing a new activity together that they are interested in. Here's a cool idea from a mom. She said, I was very honest with my daughter about my own anxiety, partly because it's obvious. And she got that from me. I actually asked her to listen to your programs, the one Casey recommended. By the way, if you get our programs, Casey will recommend specific ones for your kids to listen to, for teachers to listen to, and we will, for grandparents, and we will share theirs for free with them. So I asked her to listen to those programs and come up with a plan for me.

23:51She was very creative. And the best part is that in, when being vulnerable with her, she eventually opened up about her own anxiety. She's joining me on evening walks. We now listen to your programs together and talk about different ideas. I'd love that. Number five, repair a broken relationship with your child. I wanted to share this story because I think it is very doable for every mom and dad. So a dad wrote, I'm a career military father who values structure, respect, competence, and mission readiness. Sounds like my dad. I've been expecting our kids, especially a strong willed son to share those same values.

24:33I've slowly learned that what he really values is his autonomy, creativity, and space. I've tried the command and control approach with my kids, and so far they've just dug in for trench warfare or retreated from me. When I listened to your dad's program in a no BS instruction manual, I could see myself in your stories with your own military father. For some reason, it hit home and I decided to reframe my military skill set. I am very mission oriented. So I created a new mission to connect with my son using tactical patience. I love how he wrote this. Tactical patience and finding a common interest.

25:17I was relieved that you said we can connect by doing activities instead of just awkward talking. That can be really helpful for dads. So he said, I'm just like you were. I dismiss my son's hobbies, gaming, music, social media, as a waste of time. So I decided to begin by trying No BS Step Number 16 to be curious and enter into his world so that I could bond over something that irritates me. And for me, that's my son's video games. And the dad said, ironically, one of my core skills in the military is curiosity. It's how I gather intel and understand other people and their intentions. I've just never applied it to my own kids or my wife, if you were to ask her.

26:07So I asked my son this. I know I don't get the gaming stuff, but I know you're ranked really high in this strategy game. Walk me through the tactics. How do you coordinate with your team? Now, my son didn't say much at first, but he allowed me to watch him play Call of Duty and other military games. I began asking questions and affirming him for his operational excellence and communication as the team leader. I never thought I'd say this, but a month later, we formed a father-son combat team on Wednesday nights at 9 p.m. I let my son be the leader, and since he's better than me, he's actually teaching me.

26:48It's allowing us to be vulnerable and build a measure of mutual respect. A few weeks ago, we won and I said, hey, how about we go celebrate with a late night snack? He said, but dad, it's after 11 on a weeknight. I think he was blown away because I'm usually so disciplined and rigid, but this is becoming a new tradition for us. We're laughing together for the first time since he was a little kid. I feel like I got my son back and I'm actually being a good father, something I never had. When I first saw your step number 25, there's 25 very specific concrete steps in an OBS instruction manual, comes with a calm parenting bundle.

27:30But he said, when I first saw your step number 25, enjoy your child. I didn't know if I'd ever experienced that again. I am now. But he said, here's why I'm writing. The other night, it was after midnight. We were driving home from our late night IHOP adventure. Again, very unlike me. It was dark naturally, and out of the blue, my son asked, Dad, did you ever struggle with like, you know, porn stuff? And I felt this wave of dread, but also joy at the same time. Dread at my son struggling with this, but joy and relief that he was openly asking me about it. We ended up driving for another hour. We talked about that.