Guilt-Free Discipline, Teaching Compliant Kids to Speak Up, Sibling Fairness #499

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3:24And how can you get your kids to listen without resorting to endless consequences? I want to give you five different options and scripts that actually work. So that is what we're going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. And you can find us and our summer sale at 50 % off at CelebrateCalm.com. Casey and I are in the middle of our father-son hiking trip, so we appreciate you holding off on long emails until we get back. But we're happy helping with small things while we're resting our feet and legs in the evening.

3:57Because he's hard to keep up with. He's 27 years younger, and he's 6 '2", but I'm keeping up. So to demonstrate a variety of discipline approaches, I'm going to use chores as a general backdrop for consistency. And even if you don't struggle with chores, I think you'll find this helpful because we can apply these different strategies to all kinds of situations. And I also want you to know this. I'm going back through some of these things I've written and talked about before. and it's interesting. I'm a year older. I've got more experience and I'm seeing them in different ways. So I'm really excited because I keep getting new insights that I think will help you.

4:39Okay, let's dig in. Let's do the tough approach. I wanted to begin with that one because I like the tough approach because it's sometimes necessary and it is compassionate for your kids. Look, I don't make things personal. I don't create drama. I don't talk a lot. So kids are refusing to do chores and I say, hey, every day I ask you to do three chores around here. In return, I run three services, a meal service, a taxi service, a laundry service, among 37 other things you do as parents. So here's how life is going to work in our home from now on. If you don't do your chores, my services begin to shut down and your kids are going to say, seriously, you're not going to take me to my soccer game?

5:22My response is short and sweet. Try me. I may add, try me. This is how it works from now on. You do your chores. I run my services. Yeah, but then if I don't make it to my soccer game, my coach is going to be upset and I'll let my team down. Well, I know you will. And then you can explain to your coach that you missed your game because you didn't do your chores at home. and notice, please notice the tone. I'm not creating drama. I'm not being snotty or resentful or vindictive. You know what? After all I do for you and you can't even, you know, when I was a kid, we got up at 4 a.m. to milk the cows.

5:59Look, none of that or this. You know, kids, it's really important that children learn how to contribute to the family home. We all have our, stop, stop with annoying lectures. Your kids already know this. They just want to skate by doing as little as possible because that's partly what human nature does and says. Your job isn't to lecture or convince. It's to be decisive and take action. Now look, if you're doing too much for your kids, that's your issue. So apologize to that. And then reset your expectations. expectations. But don't ever expect your kids to say, mother, father, we've determined that you do way too much for us, and we don't want to be entitled children.

6:46So could you give us more responsibilities, please? Look, this is a childhood pattern for many of you. Many of you were ultra responsible as kids because, well, what did you learn? Well, when I'm really responsible, then my mom or my dad give me extra attention, and they accept me. And that served you well in your professional life because you're very responsible and conscientious. Many nurses and social workers have this background and it's helped you hold your family together. But now it sabotages your relationship and your own mental and emotional health from carrying this burden. So be kind and generous to yourself now.

7:28Look, in some ways doing too much for your kids can be a manipulative pattern. See if this makes sense. Because I do so much for you, you owe me. That's not healthy. That's the flip side of what I learned, which is my way of the highway, fear and intimidation. That's manipulative too. If you don't do what I tell you to do, I'm going to punish you or withhold my affection from you. We don't want either of those patterns in our lives. So apologize to your kids for doing too much and begin actively turning over more responsibility to them. I know I kind of say it's the tough approach, but I actually see it as being very compassionate because you are giving your kids very clear expectations and boundaries.

8:13You're letting them know this is the way the world works. It's based on reciprocity and being generous to others. That's a kind form of discipline. But here's a big key to this. Please just do what you said you were going to do. If you go through our updated Discipline That Works program, you'll hear some really good language because people usually say, oh, you just need to enforce your consequences. But I found a lot of people don't like that language, so I prefer to say, well, I'm just keeping my promises to you. I promised you this would be the outcome if you made this choice. So I keep my promises.

8:52Promises speak of personal integrity so your kids can count on you. When I tell you something, I just want you to trust that I simply do what I said I would do without drama, without lectures, no guilt trips. So begin making that switch. By the way, I also like the word outcome versus consequences carry a lot of baggage, but this is just the outcome. This is what happens when you make this choice. Now, I kind of want to stop here because that's a great challenge for the next two weeks to implement. So work on that, but let's keep going. Look, here's one more example of taking a tougher approach.

9:31Saturday morning comes, your kids are building with Legos or on their screens or enjoying a carefree morning, and you say, hey, this week we asked you to do X, Y, and Z, but that did not get done. So no fun around here until those responsibilities are taken care of. I used to call it in our home declaring martial law in my home. You're just being decisive. Now your kids are going to hem and haul and complain and negotiate and walk around with sagged shoulders, have as if life is so hard. Just smile. This is the normal dance of parenting. Right, guys, you can complain and be miserable for the next three or seven hours.

10:11I'm perfectly okay with that, especially since I got those noise-canceling headphones for Mother's Day or Father's Day. Leave that part out. But it's your choice. Look, as soon as your chores are done, as soon as you help out, you can resume having fun. Short and sweet. Okay, let's talk about giving kids ownership. I really prefer this approach, but you have to use different approaches for different situations. If you're always just using the tough approach, something's wrong. Mix it up. if you never use the tough approach, then you probably don't have a strong-willed child. You don't need to listen to our podcast.

10:46Kidding. But you probably don't have a strong-willed child or you're afraid to be tough, right? Because sometimes we feel guilty with that. So practice that. If your kids are a little older, give them some ownership of their chore list. You get some poster board, order a couple pizzas for a work session. Hey guys, here's a list of everything that needs to be done in our home every week. You'll notice that your mom and dad do almost everything. But there are eight activities you need to be responsible for. We want to give you a chance to divvy up the chores amongst yourselves and create your plan for who does what.

11:22You could change up every week or month or rotate chores. You guys come up with a plan. So you're giving your kids some ownership. Now, if they can't come to an agreement, you can come and you can guide them, work through with them, eat some of the pizza, or you could just assign the chores for them. Now, here is what may happen if you have a strong-willed child. And I love this. That strong-willed child who is made to be an entrepreneur, a little bit more bossy, is going to pay one of his siblings to do some of his chores and then manipulate the more compliant people-pleaser sibling to do the other ones.

12:02And your response is going to be, that's not fair. you can't do that. I disagree. This is perfect training for the real world. This is the conversation I'd have with that strong-willed child. Hey, son, daughter, that's brilliant. You don't like doing chores. Chores are boring to you. So you used your brain and strategic thinking. You're good at earning money. And so you decided to pay your one sibling money to do your chores. That's called delegation. Because one day you're going to own your own business and delegate undesirable tasks because God knows you're not going to last long in a corporation because you don't like authority figures.

12:40Leave that part out. So you know they're probably going to do something in a very independent way. You're teaching them a life skill at an early age. I love that. Well, but what about the poor sweet child who gets taken advantage of the people pleaser? So I would talk to them about it. Just have regular conversations. Look, I want to make sure that you're good with this deal. Now, if you're afraid to speak up, I don't want you walking through life getting controlled and manipulated by other people. So let's practice saying no and being assertive about what you want. So you have to practice. These are skills because those of you who are people pleasers, you know how this works.

13:28You don't want to do something, but But then you agree to do it and you beat yourself up for it. Why did I say that? I don't want to do that. And I would rather you just practice. So that child says, no, I don't want to do it that way. Now, you can tell your child, if you want to do this for your brother, because you get satisfaction from completing tasks and you actually enjoy cleaning and you've got a big heart, go for it. But if you got manipulated, then I want you to learn how to speak up and be assertive and say, no, I'm not doing those two chores for free. I will do them for X amount of money or in exchange for you doing X and Y for me.

14:12See, it could be something that's not on the list that their brother or sister does for them. But I like that a lot because you're teaching kids life skills and actually practicing them. Okay, one of my favorite strategies for getting strong will kids to do anything is to make it a challenge. actually make it harder. When we had kids at those camps in our home, they had chores to do. So I'd say, hey, but you can't do that blindfolded or backwards. And some kids would put the broom behind their back and between their legs to sweep the floor. Annoying, but they did it. I once challenged a girl named Morgan with this.

14:46Hey, the crumbs need to be off my floor in the next 12 minutes. I don't care if you slither like a snake and eat them off the floor or sweep them. And of course she got down on the floor and did that it was gross but she's not my kid so the point is make things a challenge because that stimulates their brains hey i like these a lot hey i bet you can't come up with some new way to do this that i've never thought of see now you're challenging them to use their in individuality their ingenuity their creativity and so here's another one this is Hey, I want you to do this in the most irritating way you can.

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17:38Good. So if you have toddlers, I guarantee this is going to happen with a strong-willed toddler. Their toys are going to be all over the floor. And as good moms and dads, you're going to say, Honey, you need to pick up your toys right now. And they're going to resist, and they're not going to do it. And you're going to want to respond, Well, if you don't pick up those toys, I'm going to put them in a bag and take them to Goodwill and give them to a child who wants them. And if you have a strong-willed child, they will say, Why don't you just put them in a bag, and I'll take them right now. I don't even like these toys.

18:10Oh, or you'll look out the window later and see your five-year-old carrying a bag of toys toward goodwill. So here's the option I want to give you. Put some music on. Get down on the floor and pick up their toys and put them in the bin together. And you are going to wonder, well, am I just giving in? Won't this create an entitled child who never learns to be responsible? What message am I sending? You should be asking those questions. That's healthy. Now look, if you constantly give your kids things and don't expect anything of them during their childhood, you will create an entitled monster. But you're not doing that.

18:52You're using some wisdom with this particular child. I know it sounds weak. And look, all of your arguments against what I'm saying are correct. They are. I cannot argue with any of your logical disagreements with this. All I can say is I've worked with almost a million families. I've seen this dynamic play out with strong-willed kids over and over again. And I want to assure you that it's smart to know your child, to read the moment. And instead of creating an hour-long power struggle that you will not win anyway, you go sit and time out until you're ready to pick up your toys. I'm not going to pick them up.

19:33You can't talk to me like that. And you know how that goes. it's endless and at the end of it your child is often very happy and you're frustrated so instead you play some music you get on the floor you mutter under your breath as you pick up more toys than they do and you bond and now the toys are picked up and you can move on to the 247 other tasks you must complete when you have toddlers i want you to know this is okay to do sometimes. It is. I don't want you to feel guilty for doing this, to just get through the moment and the day sometimes. It's like ordering a pizza or running through the McDonald's.

20:16Okay, Chick-fil-A, but I'm going to use McDonald's. Going through the McDonald's drive-thru because they're open every day and they're everywhere to simply get some calories in your kids when you're exhausted and overwhelmed. Do that guilt-free. Please don't watch all those people on Instagram who are perfect parents because that's not how it works. I would encourage you, do not buy your kids things. Focus on experiences together. When you do buy things, as they get older, require them to have an investment in it. Casey always had to pay for part of his, if it was a guitar, a hockey stick, because he always wanted the special hockey stick.

21:02And we would spend so much time at the local ice rink. Casey would say, dad, can I get a power aid? And I'd respond, sure, if you use your own money, but I'm not spending$3.50 for sugar and food dye. We've got free water in the car. Seriously, dad, all the other parents buy their kids food and drinks. And my response was, yeah, I know, because all the other parents don't love their children. They give them everything. So you're welcome for being a responsible parent. I actually did say that once. It was awesome. The point is he had to choose if he valued the drink or food enough to spend his own money on it.

21:39And I'm not talking about you're out all day and your kids are starving. You know what I'm saying. Now, I just have to tell you if you say something like that, just know your strong-willed kids are going to go to their friends and say, Yeah, my dad, my mom said your parents don't love you because they do everything for you. It's so much fun raising these kids. Oh, let's stop some other needless tension and battle. Some of you have a certain way you like the dishwasher loaded. That's perfectly fine that you're particular about it. But if no one can ever really please you the way they do it, then the compassionate thing to do for you and your spouse and your kids is for you to just be in charge of loading dishes.

22:21Just handle that yourself or else you will be perpetually displeased with everyone else. So just make the rule, guys, you clear the table, put the dishes in the sink and rinse them off. I will load the dishwasher and everybody will be happy. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Now, here's the one that I really, really like. It's a very realistic approach with a strong-willed child. You've heard me say that Casey was virtually useless as a kid in our home, but always thrive more in the adult world. And chores were a constant battle. So we stepped back and asked, what is our goal here? Look, we want to raise kids who are responsible in the real world, not to be kids for the next 60 years.

23:03We discovered that we were limiting this to some rigid list, right? We often have this rigid list of chores inside the home. so we expanded our boundaries and options for being responsible from the age of 12 Casey worked outside the home he began by officiating hockey games at the local rink he had to get up early on weekends show up on time fill out his game card work hard with parents yelling at him from the stands which he was used to from me be accountable to and communicate with a boss he was extremely conscientious there in ways he never was in school and I remember telling him Hey, tell your boss you will ref any game that other people don't want to, which were the really early games.

23:48You'll earn more shifts in money. And he did. And the money he earned through his teen years and invested in Apple stock became the down payment on his home 18 years later. Casey would go visit this elderly couple down the street and do chores for them. He loved them. They loved him. He was being respectful and responsible and serving other people. And those are great traits. We would feed the homeless every Friday night in downtown Nashville. So Casey would be responsible for lugging 24 packs of water, putting together little gift bags. And he learned how to cook for them. And he was good at it.

24:29So he said, why don't you be responsible for cooking a meal one night a week for us? See, that's not a traditional chore. But he was contributing. doing. He was being responsible, and he's actually a really fantastic cook to this day. He was always a physical sensory kid, so instead of doing indoor chores, he would spread mulch and dig holes and mow the lawn. Not very well, because he always left those little strips of grass like a mohawk on my lawn, but he was a teenager. But he contributed, so expand your boundaries with strong-willed kids. Look for other ways they can serve other people and be responsible and successful.

25:06Otherwise, you'll simply fight and be irritated for 18 years. It just isn't going to look like you always imagined it would. You know what? We're going to have kids and we're going to have very clear lists of everything they have to do. And we'll be very, very diligent with it. We'll follow through with tough consequences and they'll listen. I know you wanted it to work that way, but it doesn't always. And so keep the bigger picture in mind, not just trying to check off parenting boxes or do it the way your parents did it. Well, what about the other kids? Well, look, you raise your kids according to their nature.

25:43Some people like checking off the boxes and doing chores. My younger brother loves, he's like, just give me a chore. I just like checking off the box. Loves doing that. Gives them a sense of accomplishment and control. And you can say, your brother does his chores for the old couple down the street. Do you want to do that? and your other child may say no they kind of smell and they're old and like okay do what works for your family this week practice each one of these different strategies i want you to be comfortable with the no nonsense approach even matter of fact no drama no lectures no guilt trips do what you said you were going to do give your kids ownership of their choices be creative learn how to read the moment.

26:28I encourage you over the summer, really listen to the programs in depth because we go through hundreds of scenarios with detailed responses. So you know what to do in the moment. It becomes very second nature and then you can be guilt-free with it. I'd encourage you to let your kids listen to this podcast and ask them, how do you want to handle responsibilities in the home or even outside the home? And they'll most likely say, well, I really liked his idea about you not lecturing and getting us Chick-fil-A, right? So are you tired, mom and dad? That's how our strong-willed kids roll, but it can provoke really good conversations.