Kids Who Act Like Nothing Happened After Meltdown, Laugh When Disciplined? #553

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1:28And no matter your child's learning style or knowledge level, IXL has video tutorials and learning games to guide your child in the way they learn best while meeting them at their level. So whether your child needs extra help with a class or wants to work ahead, IXL provides the positive feedback our kids crave. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now. Calm Parenting Podcast listeners get an exclusive 20 % off an IXL membership when you sign up today at IXL.com slash Kirk. Visit IXL.com slash Kirk to get the most effective learning program at the best price. So you have a child who lashes out, screams disrespectful things at you, perhaps even throws and breaks something, and then later comes downstairs from his or her bedroom like nothing happened.

2:21Or maybe your strong-willed kids laugh when you're trying to discipline them, and that infuriates you. So how can you handle these situations next time? How can you be tough with discipline, but also actually teach your kids important skills and lessons? That is what we're going to discuss on today's really awesome Calm Parenting podcast. because look, I'm really excited about this one. I hope you will share it with other parents. Welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us at celebratecalk.com where you will find, we've got a new podcast directory of past episodes there and our new year sales so you can break these generational patterns.

3:01So has your child ever had a meltdown and then later acted like nothing happened? Kind of just comes downstairs carefree and casual. Hey mom, can I have a snack? And you're in shock. Wait, what? You just called me names an hour ago, and now you're acting like nothing has happened? Look, our son did this frequently, and every time I handled it the wrong way. And a really great mom reminded me of those fun days back then with this email. She said, two days ago, I was listening to your programs on my commute, and I heard you address this issue. And I thought, well, that doesn't happen with our home.

3:40Well, it happened yesterday, and I can't tell you how much it meant to me that your strategies were top of mind, that I knew exactly what to do and how to help my son when he needed it most instead of freaking out. That's what we're after, moms and dads, so kudos to all the moms, dads, grandparents out there who are working so hard at this. So why do our kids do this? Why won't they accept responsibility for their actions? Well, the same reason we don't like talking to authority figures about our failings. It's shame. It's embarrassment. Sometimes we feel helpless to change. And so our kids are shamed or embarrassed about their behavior because they know how irrational and awful it was.

4:31And that is why kids sometimes giggle when they're being disciplined. And I know that infuriates you. It's not usually disrespect. It's just awkward for them. So we'll ask like, well, why won't they be held accountable? Because nobody likes to be held accountable. I don't either. And lecturing isn't helpful. Your kids already know what they did was wrong. That's why they lie, because they don't want the consequence. They already know it was wrong, but now they feel embarrassed and ashamed and kind of afraid of this awkward conversation you're going to have. Well, does that mean you don't talk to them?

5:09No. So I'm going to show you this. Look, I can think of, think about this. I can think about times I had a meltdown in our home as a grown man over something small going wrong. And that's usually what trips up your kids, isn't it? Something small that's seemingly insignificant. And then they just rage over it. I'm made the same way. And so I would have my tantrum or meltdown and then I'd storm out to the garage or I'd go outside or I'd go to my room fuming and processing it or I'd go for a drive and run an errand. Then I would walk back into the living room later with my family there and they'd look up at me and I'd try to say something fun like, hey, who wants some ice cream?

6:00Who wants to watch this fun video or show? Look, it's like this walk of shame because everyone had just seen me at my worst, at my most vulnerable, out of control over something stupid and not significant. And now I had to face them and somehow explain what I just did when there is no explanation. See, that was hard for me at age 35. Now imagine being a kid, having two parents sitting you down, looking you in the eyes, and they begin lecturing you, recounting the entire scene. Or sometimes worse, talking to you in that really sweet tone, like they understand, but it actually feels condescending.

6:49So let's think about that for a moment. What if my family had said, you need to come sit down, we need to talk about your behavior. and then I looked up and my wife and kids were staring at me and maybe one has a look of disapproval and anger at what I did. Well, I'd feel defensive. I'd feel bad about disappointing them, but not knowing how not to disappoint them. And so say the other was looking at me with these concerned eyes and I'd be thinking, I don't want your freaking pity. And then they'd want to recount and replay this entire scene and keep asking, But why did you, and as a grown man, I would probably blurt out I don't know, what do you want from me?

7:34You think I want to look like a complete fool in front of my family? You think I'm proud of myself for this? Like it's some badge of honor? You think I'm not beating myself up inside And feeling like a piece of you know what right now And feeling helpless to change? Why are you all looking at me like that? and then I would probably stomp off again and I'm a grown man. And the truth is it's hard for us to stop in the middle of lecturing or being upset and say, hey, son, daughter, I'm sorry, I just overreacted there. And if we can't do that as adults, how can we expect kids to have the maturity to stop in the middle of their meltdown and say, hey, mom, dad, I'm sorry, I way overreacted here and I'm sorry.

8:24right I used to escalate and make it worse I would guilt trip Casey I can't believe you would say those things I would have never talked to my father like that and here's what that really means you're a worse person than I ever was and so beyond hope that you're lucky I even let you live here you're so awful and unredeemable don't you feel like an awful kid right now I mean that's what he would be thinking inside that's not what I was saying but he would be thinking that and part of what's happening in these moments is that your child is actually beating himself or herself up already and then it feels like we pile on and then they begin to internalize I don't even know why you put up with me I'm a bad kid I have no idea what to do in these situations I feel helpless yeah see some of us grew up with a shame mentality and we kind of keep perpetrating that on our kids and it's critical to point out that we don't want to go with that really sweet tone and excuse it.

9:28Oh honey, it's okay. I know you were really upset and we all have bad days. No, see, it's, look, it's not okay to yell at your parents, throw things and slam doors and that tone sounds condescending because what it really communicates is, well, you don't have other options or choices and you're not capable of handling it differently. See, it may sound sweet, but it's not. It also says, I don't know what to do here. And it also says, you're not actually capable of controlling yourself. And see, that creates confusion. That's not good either. So in this moment, think about this. What do you really want right now?

10:17Do you want an apology? or do you want contrition? Do you want to check off some parenting box or do you actually want to teach your child handle the frustration that caused this in the first place? Do you want to prove that you're justified disciplining or do you want to forge a closer trusting relationship? Because if you're standing with arms folded awaiting for an apology, you're creating a defensive response and you'll never get the apology. Your child will also never open up to you later in the teen years because your child can't trust you not to pile on the shame. And I know some people, a lot of my guys I work with, well, I need to teach that kid a lesson.

11:00Well, that's making it about you. You're choosing to be offended by what a kid did, and you're taking it personally. And you have to stop that. We're adults. I do want to teach the child a lesson, but not for my sake and not from vengeance or anger or resentment. Can't believe he talked to me like that. The lesson I want you to teach your child is how to deal with the disappointment, the frustration, the anxiety in healthy ways. Not suppress their emotions or not to let them let loose whenever they want. See, those are the two extremes. I'm going to shut that child down. Or, well, we just let our kids say whatever they want.

11:45No, I don't want that either. I want to teach them how to control themselves. So here's what happened once when Casey was a little kid and I finally got it right because he had blown up over doing something wrong and being corrected. He yelled horrible things at us. He threw something. Then he ran up to his room and slammed his door because that was a big trigger of mine. and so and you've heard it from previous podcasts sometimes Casey would do that because he knew I would get more upset than he was and the situation was no longer about what he had done wrong but about me losing it so I head upstairs to ream him as usual even though there was this war there was a war inside of me you're going to wrestle with these things mom and dads moms and dads right it's like uh it's am I letting this kid get away with things how is he ever going to treat his future spouse and boss correctly if I don't discipline him here?

12:41Why is he doing these things? What have we done wrong? Do other kids do this? What if our relatives are right and we need to come down harder on him? But inside something was gnawing at me and I knew I had to wrestle with this. So I asked myself, what is Casey expecting right now up in his room? Because he was up there expecting an angry or disappointed parent or both parents, which is brutal because now it feels like you're being teamed up on as a kid. He was expecting this angry parent to stand in his doorway, hands on hips, lecturing and disciplining, i.e. yelling and shaming him because that's what I used to do before I learned that discipline means to teach, right?

13:25And so I was going to be standing there angry and saying things like, what were you thinking? How many times do I have to tell you? I would have never done this as a kid. That's what he was expecting, an angry authority figure who was disappointed in him. And sometimes we do that because that's what we were taught as kids. We had angry authority figures yelling at us. And those of us who grew up in more legalistic religious homes were taught that God is just this angry authority figure, no matter what we say about mercy and love. What was communicated is God is an angry authority figure who always seems kind of PO'd at us.

14:04That's what I internalized. And those beliefs are deeply ingrained in us. And that's why we have to wrestle with these issues inside of us and break those generational patterns. Look, a good authority figure has clear boundaries and is also patient. Understanding takes time to teach. Do not put your junk on your kids because you haven't done that hard work yourself. Look, there's no blame, no guilt. You know I don't do that. But we have to break these generational patterns or your kids and grandkids will keep repeating these destructive patterns. So I wanted to create a new family tree. So I did something different for me.

14:44I humbled myself. So I walked upstairs, knocked on his door, and walked into the room. And there's all this tension because we had a history of this not ending well. He was sitting on his bed, and I saw his cheeks kind of stained with tears and all red. And he was, look, my son was not thinking, yeah, I just showed my parents. He was afraid. He was dreading the lecture, the disappointment, the feeling of helplessness, of not having an answer when I asked why he would do something like that. Helplessness, shame. See, I was nervous, not knowing what to do with all of these conflicting emotions and thoughts.

15:26So I chose humility. I sat on the floor and I began building with the Lego blocks I had picked up off the floor when I was coming upstairs that he had left on the floor. And I was angry about that and I had to reset before I got there, right? This stuff is hard. So without looking up, because you know I don't do eye contact because it just reinforces the shame, I broke the silence and I always use an even matter-of-fact tone. Hey Case, I'm sorry I reacted like that downstairs. I shouldn't have said that. Why? Why do I do that? Because sometimes humility is a very powerful tool that breaks down walls.

16:02Humility leads to contrition instead of a forced apology. I wasn't groveling. I wasn't being too sweet, but I wasn't yelling either. I made a statement of fact. I shouldn't have yelled at you downstairs. Now, sometimes it's wise to walk away after that and give yourself and your child some space to process this. And you could even add an invitation, say, hey, I need to go get X at the store, walk the dog, go for a ride, grab a smoothie, some tacos. Hey, let me know if you want to join me. We could go grab that. I'll be happy to listen to you. That's perfectly fine. But I didn't do that this time.

16:43So here's the scene. My son is on his bed. And it's important to note that is my son, not just some defiant kid. Because sometimes we get resentful toward these strong-willed kids and they become that defiant kid. It's my son up there. and he's scared. He's waiting for the fury, the lecture, the shame. But now he sees this man, who is his father, sitting on the floor, not looking angry, not looking at him. And I can feel him inching closer to the side of the bed, probably wondering in his heart and head, can I trust this man right now? Is it safe for me to be vulnerable? Because in the past, it never has been.

17:37And my son wants to join me because he wants to be close to his dad or his mom, because that's the way it's supposed to work. And I'm telling you, it better be safe for your kids or they will lie and sneak and hide things from you. And so he slides down off of his bed and takes a risk because this time it felt kind of safe for him because I was sitting, I was building. But it really kind of crushed me inside that day when my son climbed down off the bed because he was being vulnerable. He was taking a risk. He didn't know what was about to unfold there. And I was finally, finally making him feel safe enough.

18:26I was drawing him to me instead of pressuring him. And I knew he wanted me to be proud of him. He just didn't always know how. And so I didn't look up. I just stayed focused on building. Hey, can you hand me a couple of the red pieces? Remember, we talked about motion changes emotions. When kids are upset, you give them something they are in control of. And so we began to build for a few minutes together. And notice we're now together. Not go to your room, not separated physically or emotionally. emotionally. We are together. I didn't want to isolate him anymore because when we're together, two really awesome things can happen.

19:11Guess what came out of his mouth next? Dad, I'm really sorry I said those things to you and mom. See, humility leads to contrition. I didn't really need the apology. Neither did my wife. I'm a grown adult. I don't need an apology. He did because that's reconciliation. That's how to build a mature, respectful relationship. And that was the door that opened us to what is even more important, teaching your child how to handle the inevitable frustration, disappointment, and anger. Your Strongwell kids are very intense kids. They have ideas, they don't go right, and they get really frustrated and really angry and really disappointed.

20:02And what I want to do is give them tools so they don't feel helpless, so they actually have an action plan for when, not if, they have those intense responses. And so you have an action plan in that moment. That's what I'm after. See, in this case, I did not have that discussion right away. I just sat on the floor. We built with Legos for a little bit. We all just decompressed. We got a good night's sleep. And then the following day, we did two things. Number one, we handled the tough part after we had de-escalated, when we were all in a different emotional space. I had every right to assign a harsh consequence.

20:46But in this particular situation, I asked Casey, hey, what do you think would be an appropriate consequence? And because he wasn't upset or defensive or feel like he was being attacked, he actually chose a tougher one than I had thought about. So in addition to apologizing to his mom, right, which is appropriate, he said, I think since I made a big mess for mom, I should do a service project for her. And I was like, that's actually a great idea. I'll even help you out with that. See, an act of service to another human is a wonderful consequence, so to speak. It's better than just losing something.

21:30Look, you don't have to let your kids get away with things. You just don't escalate in the moment when everyone is upset. Look, if you have a kid who swears, then you can just say very evenly, hey, since you're choosing to use adult words, you forfeit all kid fun and have to do boring adult chores until you stop that. See, there's no drama. It doesn't take a long time. Now, they're going to create drama. I don't want to do that. I just keep my promise. This is just how it works in our home. See how that works? Note, but note, the consequence alone isn't enough because that consequence, whatever you choose, doesn't actually teach the child how to make a different choice next time.

22:18The consequence, sure, it's important. It just lets them know, hey, you just crossed a boundary in our home. That doesn't happen in my home. So here's what's going to happen. But that's not enough because when the next time frustration, disappointment, anxiety come in, the consequence doesn't really relate to that. So the more important part was next. We actually role-played how to handle the disappointment and frustration. I didn't come in right away and said, so we need to have a long, dire talk about what you did yesterday. Let's rehash every mean and disrespectful thing you said, and we'll do it in great detail.

22:55There was no need for that. Instead, I said, hey, I need to learn how to calm situations down better myself. And at times I still react too much when I get frustrated and disappointed. Look, there's nothing wrong with saying that. That's not letting him off the hook. It's just pure honesty. So I said, let's walk through some different options together. And I remember in one of these first problem solving talks with Casey, he said, dad, when things don't go the way I picture them, it's like there are fireworks in my brain and I can't think and everything feels out of control. And I was like, that's good insight.

23:37Because you'll hear me saying the very first step to calming an upset child is not you need to calm down. It's to give them something they feel in control of. It's to give them something to do, right? And so we've been through these solutions in countless podcasts, so I'm not going to repeat them here. Just go listen to that How to De-escalate a Nuclear Meltdown one from last spring. That's a really good one. It is what ultimately led him many years later to create the Straight Talk for Kids program, and that's in the Get Everything package. It's our most popular program, and he used to do school assemblies based on that because he teaches kids how to control their impulses and emotions.

24:17So let your kids listen to his program while you're listening to the grown-up ones. Actually, listen to them all together. Look, the point I want to make for this coming week is this. This is the goal, to teach and show your child how to handle these situations in a different way when, not if, they happen. Not just get an apology, and it's to model this for your kids. See, that is when everything changes, and that's when my son and I began to bond in a deeper way because I was actually giving him tools to not feel helpless. That's what that mom emailed about when I'm doing this podcast. She was like, it felt so good inside to know I had tools to give my son so that he didn't feel helpless.

25:10See, I was now the adult who was helping him instead of him having to walk on eggshells around me. See how that often works. Our kids walk on eggshells. I don't want mom or dad to be upset and lecture me. See, now I'm actually helping him. And that set the stage for what happened and what will happen when your kids are 12 and 15 and 17 and 27. And they mess up and they wonder, can I call my parents right now? or am I just going to get another lecture? And I can tell you, Casey's a grown man now and I can't express to you how much it means to me when Casey will text or call and say, Dad, can I talk to you about something?

25:51He's seeking my wisdom. He trusts me to open up. And that's what I want you to have with your most strong-willed kids from the time they were toddlers all through their lives. So moms and dads, you are going to have one of these situations occur this week. You know you are. So slow your world down inside. Lead your child to contrition. Lead to a calm place. And then begin to show them how to handle the difficult parts of life. If you need help with that, reach out to us. Take advantage of the New Year's sale. If you need help financially, ask Casey. We'll help you out. But I have so much respect for you because you are breaking generational patterns.

26:33You are learning new skills that you didn't learn from your own parents. so you're growing up just like I am while your kids are growing up. And it is a beautiful, beautiful thing that you're doing. And so I appreciate you listening to the podcast, sharing it, and working so hard at this. All right, we'll talk to you next time. Love you all. Bye-bye.