Let's Make Discipline Easy Without Being Authoritarian or Permissive #622

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3:46So that is what I want to discuss because I believe that you can discipline your kids, which means to teach without yelling, without reacting, or without giving in. So that's what we're going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. And you can find us in our summer sale at CelebrateCalm.com. So a few basics. Discipline is something you do for your child, not to them. Sometimes saying no, even when it makes your kids angry, is the most compassionate act you can take for your child. Learning how to control your own emotions is a gift to your child.

4:29Discipline is not about the convenience of the moment or the child's behavior right now. It's not punishment. It's not sending kids to their rooms or taking things away. Discipline means to teach. The goal is to impart wisdom to our children so they can be responsible for their own behavior. See, the best discipline is self-discipline. I want to teach kids how to control their own behavior so that you don't have to make them behave. Right? You remember that? That was the whole thing. Like, well, I just need to make my kids behave. Well, if I'm making them behave through fear, intimidation, punishment, coercion, well, I'm being responsible for their behavior, and they never learn how to make their own choices.

5:17Discipline is love. Because I love you, I take the time necessary to instruct you. I risk you being mad at me for saying no. I summon the physical and emotional strength to follow through, even when it's inconvenient, when I'm tired, and when I am in public, because that's hard. So here are three questions I learned to ask myself before I would discipline. Number one, have I shown my child how to control himself or herself first by modeling it myself? See, have I shown that? Have I shown kids how to do that? Because just saying like, go to your room, cut that out or else, I'm not showing them anything.

6:01I'm just sending them away from me. And I do that first by modeling it myself. Number two, have I given my child tools to make a different choice next time? So I have to actually give kids tools to do it differently. Just like at the workplace when we're starting a new job, they don't say like, hey, here's your desk. Go do your new job. They train you. They show you how to do different things. And number three, have I built a closer, more trusting relationship with my child? Because that's not the model I grew up with. And in a lot of the circles in which we used to travel and teach and grew up with, well, the relationship wasn't really that important.

6:43It was just like, well, we just need to get our kids to behave. But I believe that the good discipline will lead to that closer, more trusting relationship. You know, the trust thing, and I'll probably get to this later. I don't want my kids to be outwardly behave for me just because there's a consequence coming. I want them to do it because they trust me. And we have that relationship because if you don't, you will be separated from your kids and most likely your spouse. So I want to shift from changing outward behavior to addressing the root of the issue, from me constantly disciplining my child to my child learning self-discipline.

7:28And typically as parents, we react immediately to our child's outward behavior. Hey, stop it. I'm going to take away your video games. You better listen to me or else. So rather than punishing a child for failing or misbehaving, because that's what we're doing, child messes up and now it's like, oh, now you're in trouble for failing, for misbehaving. I'd much rather give the child tools proactively to help him or her be successful. But many of us want a quick fix. Just snap your fingers and kids obey you. It doesn't work like that. It especially doesn't work like that with your strong willed kids.

8:04This is going to require some work, but you will have kids who listen to and respect you. Now, the first go-to of every parent is, well, we just need to give them consequence. But I want to show you why consequences don't work that well. Look, consequences are necessary and helpful. They establish boundaries, but they're very limited in effectiveness. Consequences merely let the child know, hey, that was wrong. You messed up. But your kids already know that they messed up. That's why they lie, to cover up the behavior, so they cover their shame, so they won't get in trouble. What they need help with is knowing how to make a different choice next time.

8:52But kids don't behave rationally. Neither do adults. Kids don't always have the reasoning ability to stop before acting and say, oh yeah, if I do that again, I'll lose X. Most human behavior is driven by something emotional underneath the surface. We don't make that many truly rational decisions. I know we as men, we like that. The whole world is rational. It's not. You didn't marry your spouse. Most likely, you didn't get married for rational decisions. There was something emotional underneath the surface. We do this all the time. So think about this logically. There are dire and deadly consequences for all kinds of adult behaviors.

9:42Drinking too much, eating too many unhealthy foods, not exercising, gambling, being a workaholic, smoking, speeding. You can die from these behaviors or lose everything you own. And yet rational human beings like us do them every day. These consequences don't address the internal emotional psychological needs underneath, so they fail. Here's the other thing. Stronghold kids don't care about losing things. This is critically important to understand. What they value most is autonomy, independence, and agency. They will lose their stuff But they do not want to lose their autonomy And their independence Their ability to touch the hot stove They don't mind doing that So consequences aren't a deterrent to strong-willed kids They're part of the process of learning And by the way, many of your kids When you spark out consequences How many of them look at you and they're like hmm, I'm trying to consider if continuing to do this activity is worth the consequence I'm going to get.

10:57And they often see it as a challenge to overcome. They want to call your bluff. And most consequences don't even address the underlying issue. The outward behavior we see often has nothing to do with the real issue. It's just an outward manifestation of something going on inside. Anxiety is a quick example. I did a podcast on anxiety back in early, I think it was late May, May 28th. I did that. Well, kids get anxious and they'll lash out. I'm not going to this new class. It's stupid. You're stupid. And we'll be like, you're disrespectful. You can't talk to me like that. Well, you're not even addressing the real issue, which is the underlying anxiety.

11:42So I want to get to the root of the issue, not just react to the outward behavior. It's always like, well, what consequence can we give our teen-tween daughter for not doing her homework? Well, my answer is you can give her any consequence you want. Because you can't consequence a kid into caring about school. This isn't an internal motivation issue. A child who feels overwhelmed can't be consequenced into doing better. They need tools more than consequences. It's also why timeouts are largely ineffective, especially with your younger kids. Good luck getting them. You need to sit in that chair and think about your actions.

12:22Okay, you're just going to fight for the next 15 minutes. So I want to give you dozens of alternatives. I do that throughout our program, especially the Discipline That Works program. Just update and revise that. It's fantastic. But I'll try to give a few here in this podcast. Look, constantly correcting and giving consequences really means we are taking responsibility for our kids' behavior. When they mess up, then we get resentful and we get all worked up. So after 25 years of working with almost a million families with strong-willed kids, if I had a child now, what would I really focus on most?

12:58Here are three of my top 10, not necessarily in any order, but number one is my number one. One, connection is critical Simply put, if you do not have a healthy connection with your child of any age No discipline is going to work Because if you've constantly corrected and been negative Look, no blame or guilt But if you've done that If your child feels like the black sheep of the family who's always in trouble You must first heal the broken relationship And create a more connected, trusting relationship Otherwise it's going to be met with predictable defiance Or a child who's shut down And when I look back, this is what ultimately changed Casey's behavior and our relationship more than any particular strategy or technique.

13:42In so many situations, I felt entirely justified in laying down the law or laying into Casey about his attitude or behavior. But I often chose humility because it broke down the walls. It took away the shame. It made him more receptive to my instruction and teaching. It de-escalated situations So we could all get to a better place inside Before problem solving So don't lose that connection with your child Do not withdraw like I did Like when he was young I just didn't know what to do So I would do this thing, fine You know, you guys would just be better off without me And then I would disappear to the basement And inside I was like, you know what, I'll just go earn a living You can handle all of this And don't justify it Well, when that kid stops being difficult I'll just have a relationship with him.

14:31Don't repeat the same patterns you learned from your parents. And I know these kids can be tough to connect with, but find things to bond over. Take an interest in their music, their interests. Ask them to teach you something. And look, at first, some of these times, they were really intense and uncomfortable. And I was learning how to calm myself down when I'd just blown it and I'd yelled at him. and I was having this internal war raging inside of me. Why won't this kid just listen? My dad was never patient with me and I turned out okay. Why does my son make everything difficult? But also, why can't I even control myself as a grown man?

15:13Am I really cut out for this? Maybe I should just go to work and hide in the basement. But I love this kid. I want a relationship with him because I never had one with my dad. but I just feel so ill-equipped to do this. I feel helpless. I can run a business. I'm highly disciplined in the gym with finances with my diet. But then my son does one thing I don't like and I lose it. Or even if I don't react, I'm sure he can see the disappointment in my eyes. Why am I such a bad parent? Am I becoming my dad? And I wrestled with all of these thoughts and feelings and some of you are just going to, it's with guilt.

15:49Am I doing enough? Am I doing too much? What would my mother say? And so I want you to know this when Casey and I do, you know, we go on a lot of hikes together. And by the way, this is really cool. This is I almost blew it with Casey and ruined our relationship. He's getting older now. And so his birthday and Father's Day gift for me was to take me on a two week hiking trip. He has planned it all out himself and he's taking that time. And so I am going to ask you for the next couple weeks, please don't send us long emails because I really want to take this time with Casey. And we're going to hike together really hard hikes.

16:31I anticipate these really amazing talks. And it's a beautiful thing. and when we do have these long talks on our hikes together, he'll often say, Dad, one of the things that I respect is that although you weren't great at this at first, I saw you struggle and work really hard to change and you did change. I watched you become a new person and I knew your dad so I could tell the difference. And Casey said that when he was young, he would sometimes listen to me because he was afraid of the punishment. But as he got older, it was because he respected me and knew I was there for him, walking alongside him, patiently showing him a different way.

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19:28If I could talk to you in person, I would implore you to relax a bit. Parents of young kids often think, uh-oh, we better nip every single bad behavior in the bud or we're going to raise an entitled sociopath. So you constantly correct little kids who are just exploring like they're supposed to. Toddlers and little kids are not supposed to always make good choices. They are by definition learning and doing almost everything for the very first time. They have no practice at life. There are a bundle of impulses exploring the world. Their job description is to be curious, make messes, and ruin your agenda.

20:04Most of the time, they're not being disobedient. They're simply exploring. They're supposed to touch the hot stove and be impulsive and get in trouble and make mistakes and then learn from those mistakes. Even in the tween and teen years, they're just learning how to navigate a brand new world with surging hormones and new social situations. They're just trying to figure life out, just like we are in our 30s, 40s, and 50s. And I always remind my guy friends that when you and I were little kids, we were dopey, immature kids who did stupid stuff. How many impulsive hormonal decisions did we make as teens?

20:45So stop being shocked that your kids lie, cover things up, steal, blame their siblings, take things, push the limits, don't always listen, sneak their screens late at night, cheat at games, don't listen the first time, sneak food, whine and complain, have meltdowns, talk back and have attitude. It's normal. It doesn't mean you let them get away with things, but it would be weird if your kids always made good choices. It would be weird if your teen or tween said, Mother, father, you have so much wisdom from all your life experiences. Could you share what you would do in this situation? And then I'll do exactly what you tell me.

21:22Look, a question I sometimes ask myself was, What didn't my child do in this situation? So one was our child with Casey was give the note from school. Well, your son butted line in the cafeteria. And I was like, OK, that just shows he has initiative because he was hungry. but he didn't push, kick, stomp on some other kid. Okay, so your teenager was acting goofy in class because he thinks that's the best way for him to get other kids to like him. It's wrong, but at least maybe he's not vaping, doing drugs, or committing violent acts. But it's hard because if you were the good girl or good boy growing up, you think kids should just behave the way you did.

22:02But your kids may just not do it the way you would do it. I like the strong-willed kids. So smile when your kids act up or mess up. Don't take everything so seriously. Stop listening to all those hardcore people who make you think if you don't correct every single thing right away, you're not being a good parent and your kids are going to grow up to be sociopaths. It's not true. Your kids are going to be fine because they're largely going to follow the DNA of your home and the example you set. So number three, model it. Model how to handle life. You can't expect your kids to control themselves if you can't control yourself.

22:38I get so many emails from moms, and there's six paragraphs about their child's behavior, hitting, meltdowns, throwing things. And then in the final sentence, a mom will say, well, my husband has anger issues. And I'm like, well, I didn't need to read the first six paragraphs. There's no blame or guilt. It's just a simple fact. Moms and dads, we have to control our own anger, emotions, perfectionism, and reactions, or our kids won't be able to. Because if you can't model self-discipline, how can you expect your kids to? So you'll have an opportunity every single day to model how to handle disappointment, frustration, things not going your way, unexpected changes, how to handle conflict and get along with people who irritate you.

23:21Those are all the same things your kids struggle with and they're watching how you respond. So that's where most of your energy should be spent Is teaching by showing that and that And when you mess up Well then you apologize And you reset And I love the idea of a parent coming home from work one day And saying, especially younger kids Man, I am so frustrated Traffic was backed up My boss was on me all day long My big project didn't turn out the way I wanted Hey, would you guys do a few push-ups with me right now? And you can do a different activity Or you can ask a teen to lift weights or go for a run and you ask your kids to sit in color.

23:58But what you are modeling and teaching your kids is this. It's normal to feel frustrated, disappointed, and angry. Instead of my mom or dad stomping through the door, yelling and being upset, my mom and dad do push-ups. They run, they color. You're actively showing them how to handle the frustrations that usually lead to hitting siblings, misbehaving, etc. Another reason I want you to spend so much time learning how to stop reacting and to slow down your inner world is that instead of being clouded by anxiety and anger, you will now have the clarity to see situations more clearly. Then you can problem solve instead of simply barking consequences.

24:38It's almost like being able to run a slow motion replay in your brain so you can see the situation more clearly. I should call it being like a molasses parent. So, look, you don't have to be a tyrant You don't have to be permissive I want you to be the calm, authoritative leader Who uses an even, matter-of-fact tone Who stays in control of himself or herself Who leads with confidence and humility We don't have to do the extremes You know, you guys better listen to me or else And I also, you don't have to use that Well, I need to talk to my kids like this in a sing-songy voice No, that doesn't work either because you've already said this.

25:23Your strong-willed child is like three going on 13 or 14 going on 44. Don't use that really sweet tone. It sounds condescending. It sounds patronizing to them. Even matter of fact, tone. So I think this dad summed everything up perfectly. Kirk, he emailed, Kirk, I was very skeptical when my wife bought your program. And honestly, I don't like that you constantly talk about us controlling ourselves. because I justified so many of my overreactions. But I finally took the challenge you gave in the dad's program. One of the 14 programs you get is there's one for dads, there's one specifically for moms.

26:06And one of the challenges, put as much energy into controlling yourself as you've put into fitness, finances, and your career. Two big changes this dad noticed. My kids aren't afraid of me anymore. My wife can leave the kids home with me alone for a weekend and know she's not going to get calls from the kids or from me. I'm not perfect, but I can now walk into a room and de-escalate a situation. I'm getting more hugs. And I feel proud of myself because this has been a more important accomplishment than meeting my fitness and career goals. So thanks for being a pain and pushing me. Look, my friend, you did all the hard work.

26:55So moms and dads, this is hard work and you're doing it. This parenting thing is not supposed to be easy. And while we often think we're raising kids, in many ways, this process is actually causing us to grow up. So I encourage you, wrestle with these ideas. You're going to come face to face with these deeply ingrained beliefs about discipline and child rearing. and I respect you for working so hard to break these patterns. If we can help in any way, let us know. I encourage you, use summertime when you don't have all the stress to start breaking these patterns. Work through the programs. And by the way, let your kids listen over the summer because they get these principles way quicker than we do as adults and they'll also annoyingly remind you, hey, mom, dad, you're not doing what that guy said.

27:45Okay, don't do that. But anyway, hey, I love you all. I respect you. I hope you're enjoying your summer. We'll talk to you soon.