Punishment v. Discipline: 10 Ways to Get Unstuck From Endless Consequences #564

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2:08Visit IXL.com slash Kirk to get the most effective learning program at the best price. So what is the difference between punishment and discipline? How can you finally get unstuck from that endless loop of having a child who continually messes up, is given consequences, but keeps failing while everyone grows more frustrated? How can we apply this to different situations for toddlers all the way through the teen years? That is what we're going to discuss on the next two episodes of the Calm Parenting Podcast. This will be a really good one to share with your spouse. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin.

2:46you can find the following three resources at CelebrateCalm.com. We've got our winter sale going on, our new podcast to help kids with PDA, and an ad-free version of the podcast that's easy to subscribe to, CelebrateCalm.com. So huge shout out to our friend Dylan, who listens to the podcast because it makes him feel understood. Dylan has ADHD and really likes the fact that he thinks differently. And I love that too, Dylan. You have a great future ahead of you, and I'm proud of you, my friend. So I was speaking at this men's summit. A dad asked, what's the difference between discipline and punishment?

3:28That's a really good question. And the answer leads us to very different places. So let's look at 10 essential differences. I think you'll find this to be a helpful guide. And if you've got a spouse who's not always on the same page or might be a little bit more old school and tends toward punishment, this might help. So number one, punishment is based on this false expectation that kids are just going to make good choices all the time. They're not. Then we act surprised even though our own history says we continually make mistakes. That's why I think it's also about inconvenience and our own immaturity.

4:10It's almost like I was telling my son, you are making my life tougher. If you would just do what I say and how I say it, everything in our family and home would run smoothly. But now I become dependent. My mood is now dependent on what my child does. And that puts too much pressure on them and it backfires. So I was talking to a dad who said, you know, I can't believe our son would do this. And my blunt response was, why? Why can't you believe that? What in your lived experience during three or four decades on this planet leads you to believe that imperfect little humans would all of a sudden begin making positive, healthy choices without messing up?

4:53To me, that attitude leads to punishment. but discipline is more like the parent who says, yeah, these are little humans who are experiencing life for the first time, so they are going to mess up. I recognize that I'm 30, 40, 50 years old and I'm deeply flawed. I have my own insecurities, my own people-pleasing nature, my own anxiety and fears, my own control issues, so why wouldn't my child struggle? I've had decades of life experience to work on these things. So I assume that a five-year-old and a 15-year-old are going to make short-term impulsive decisions. They're just figuring this stuff out, just like I'm figuring out my stage of life for the first time.

5:43So that means when I discipline, I'll be patient, and I'll teach, and I'll walk alongside. And you know from listening to our podcast, discipline means to teach. Number two, when I used to punish Casey, it was usually out of my own frustration because my view of relationships was skewed, while I'm the authority figure who needs to be obeyed. See, I needed my son to behave so that I could behave and control myself. In some ways, it was very self-serving. And you'll notice that in many authority figures today. But the purpose of relationships is transformation. You change, you grow, you mature. And your strong-willed kids are going to be an instrument of this because they know all your buttons to push.

6:34Why? Because you have too many buttons to push, just like I do. They will provoke your immaturity. It's human nature to tend to like the easy kids more. I get that. They listen the first time. You don't have to repeat yourself 14 times. They just kind of do what they're expected to do. But think about this. In some ways, we are punishing the child who's actually causing us to grow up and be patient. The onus is always on the one with power and authority to be more patient and teach. Number three, punishment is usually characterized by the parent being angry and frustrated. I'm mad about your behavior.

7:18It's an inconvenience to me because I have to keep telling you and you don't seem to listen. See, the parent takes the child's behavior personally and tends to lash out. Punishment sometimes feels like it's 80 % about the parent's frustration. I can't believe they just, what is it going to take to get through to you? How many times do I have to tell you? Why can't you just listen or obey? When I was a kid, see, that's all about you if you're doing that. There's no blame or guilt unless you keep doing it. I'm just kidding. Well, I'm not kidding. Just stop it. But I get it. You're understandably frustrated.

7:55But now you're acting out of frustration, and that multiplies everyone's frustration. See, discipline is more about me helping my child. Look, I'm not mad at you. I'm frustrated for sure, but I'm not mad at you. I step out of how this impacts me or makes me feel so I can see clearly how to help you, not just punish you. I become a trusted resource you seek when, not if, when you struggle with anxiety, depression, disappointment, vaping or drinking or drugs as kids get older. when you want to do something you know you shouldn't, and you want to run that by someone. See, I want to be the person that my kids come to, not are afraid of.

8:44Punishment, you know, I'll just add that one. It's not on here. Punishment just tends to use fear. That's how my dad got good outward behavior from his four sons. It was pure fear and intimidation. But here's the thing. It didn't change us inside, just changed our outward behavior, and we didn't have a relationship with him. So for punishment is me trying to change the child's outward behavior externally. Discipline is getting to the root of what's causing this behavior. Punishment is trying to get you to behave. Discipline is me learning how to behave myself and then modeling appropriate behavior for you.

9:28It's leadership. Punishment features ever-increasing consequences with no real behavior change. You're just stuck in this loop. Well, discipline gets to the root of it and it gives the child tools to be successful so you don't have to keep addressing it. That's the goal, right? Not just to constantly correct kids, but to constantly create successes and competence where the kids know, okay, I can handle that situation because that also breeds confidence. Five, punishment tends to feel like a parent flailing about. This was me when Casey was young, just barking out generic sweeping consequences.

10:14I was that guy who threw out consequences out of frustration in the moment that I couldn't actually keep. You know what? You've already lost your screens for one week. one more word and we'll just make it a month. And that just erodes trust and credibility. Discipline is always more specific and measured and has a defined end goal. You give the child tools or a consequence that's directly related to their choice. That teenager who you discover is drinking, well, of course, they immediately lose their driver's license. That's decisive. if that makes sense. But you always want to go to the next step and discover why are they drinking?

10:51Is it to fit in socially, to alleviate anxiety, which it will be for many of your kids? Or is it because of a broken relationship with you or your spouse? See, once you get to the root of it, you can address the underlying reason rather than it just being kind of whack-a-mole with behavior. I like the tone that says, hey, here's what happened and how it affected your sister. Let's do an act of service and restitution to show remorse, repair the relationship, and make it count. Number six, punishment separates. Discipline draws us closer. When we punish, we often say, you need to go to your room.

11:36We're actually sending our child away from us. And sometimes that's okay, but it's not optimal because over time it sends the message, well, when you don't behave like I want, I send you away from me and now we are separated. See, discipline draws my child to me because I can handle your behavior. I can handle whatever you're going through and I have wisdom to help and teach you. See, that's a huge difference. Even when Casey was defiant or disrespectful, I tried to resist the urge to angrily send him away from me or stomp off. I get that instinct. But I would often remove myself for a minute.

12:16Hey, I need to go use the bathroom. I need to get something to drink. And then I'd invite him to be with me if we wanted. Many of you have heard like, hey, if you want to grab some chips, I'll grab the salsa. I'll meet you on the deck, right? Hey, I'm a little hungry. If you want to go grab a couple tacos with me, Case, I'd love for you to join me. See, there's an invitation that says, I can handle you at your worst. I can show you a different way to handle this. I don't want you feeling guilty if you're not there on this yet, but do make progress in this area. Progress over perfection. Number seven, punishment usually feels reactive and immediate and rash, and that's not usually a good combination.

12:58Discipline waits and de-escalates first. Discipline is also proactive. So if you have a child who's constantly getting in trouble and you're constantly giving consequences, I'd encourage you to slow down, step back, and reset. I would put a lot more energy into proactively giving your kids tools to succeed. So let me do a couple examples to tie together some of this now. So a couple emailed, and man, they just nailed what got me to ultimately change. And I could tell the email was from a very productive couple because the subject line was stacking wins. So they said this, we were both compliant kids, so when we had our strong-willed child, it threw us for a loop.

13:41We kept asking and demanding that he follow our rules and live up to our expectations, and he continually failed, leaving all of us frustrated and out of options. I feel bad that it took this, but our frustration led us to finally say, hey, let's listen to your programs. And they said, you have a simple line on your discipline program that says, the next time you want to give a consequence, instead think, what tool to succeed could I give my child instead. So the next time you just kind of, we immediately respond with like, oh, we need to give a consequence. Think about this. Well, what's a tool we could give the child to succeed in that moment instead?

14:29And the couple said it was like a light bulb went off. We'd been trying desperately to shoehorn our son into towing the arbitrary expectations we'd had as kids. But once we said, okay, let's proactively work with his nature, he started to stack wins. Like you say all the time, he's not great at kid things, but he loves the adult world. So instead of the standard morning routine, we asked him if he could run the morning shift in our home. See, I love that. With PDA kids, that's fantastic. Hey, you're going to run the morning shift. So they said their son is actually asking us what we want for breakfast and laying out things the night before.

15:15A little side note, all the things he would never do for himself or with regular chores, but when our kids have more responsibility sometimes, it's amazing how they step up. So this couple said, we're giving him more compliments and relaxing on how he gets ready. We're letting him do homework underneath the kitchen table while listening to music. He asked if he could brush his teeth in the shower. Fine with us. What prompted us to email is that last night he told us, I finally feel like I'm good at doing things at home, so you're happy with me. And that just about crushed us inside. Then he asked if he could be part-time shift manager in the evenings, partially because we think he's angling for later bedtime.

16:08But we're up for it because he's actually being more responsible now, even if he struggles to always follow directions precisely. That's really interesting, isn't it? And so what we always talk about with Casey, we didn't really want an obedient kid. We wanted a responsible kid. So I love that story. Keep stacking wins. And I think that ties into the next point perfectly. So number eight, punishment tends to breed shame and helplessness. The child feels like, I'm just a bad kid. How can I possibly change or be successful? I'm always in trouble and losing stuff. This will lead to kids picking on their siblings, kind of out of resentment toward the good sibling.

16:51They'll brood. They'll shut down. Discipline breeds competence and confidence. Ah, now I know how to be successful and how to make better choices because you just showed me how. Punishment says, I want a quick fix to stop this behavior right now. Discipline says, hey, I care enough about you to take extra time to show you a different way. It's more long-term. It's akin to that analogy of giving someone a fish versus teaching them how to fish. And we were just at a wedding, and I thought it would be instructive to slightly alter this famous text. So think about this. Discipline is patient. Discipline is kind.

17:32Discipline does not boast. It is not proud. Discipline does not dishonor others. It is not self-seeking. Discipline is not easily angered. It keeps no record of wrongs. Discipline always protects. You know, that one when I said it almost made me, like my voice crack a little bit when you think about it. Because usually our discipline is like frustration, I'm angry, would you please stop that? But it's like discipline always protects. And that changes how you view your child. Always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Discipline never fails. That's kind of cool. I like that. Number nine, punishment is punitive.

18:15Discipline is restorative. Punishment erodes trust. Discipline should always lead to a closer, more trusting relationship. Discipline is something you do for your child, not to them. It's actually a very selfless and loving act because it takes emotional strength, patience, and time. So mom emailed, and I love this, quick story. She said our family was watching a movie where the kid got caught doing something wrong and the dad went ballistic. ballistic and I asked our kids if you got caught like that which parent would be the one to act like that and my oldest said neither of you you don't lose your cool and the mom said I started listening to your podcast a couple of years ago I bought the program shortly after I started listening has radically changed our lives and answered our prayers thank you and look I tell you that I always appreciate the kind words but you are the one who is doing the hard work you You are breaking generational patterns.

19:14So thank you. Your kids will notice. Number 10, punishment tends to take things away from the child. Hey, you keep that up. You know, you've lost your screens, your play date, your driver's license. And sometimes there's nothing wrong with that. You have to do it. But while they have lost use of their phone or video game, we have to teach them new skills like delayed gratification, self-control, so it doesn't keep happening. While punishment takes away, discipline tends to be additive. You're giving kids new tools and skills to be successful. It's one of the main themes throughout our programs and podcasts, and especially that new PDA program, is that it's just, see, just giving kids accommodations or lessening demands isn't the big win.

20:04It's giving them tools to do hard things and gain confidence from doing so. So here's how a couple said it. They said, we let our kids, eight and ten, listen to your discipline program, and the kids won from Casey over the holiday break. And we said, what would you change around here? And they said, that was a little dangerous question. But they came back with two ideas. Number one, mom and dad, you talk and yell way too much. So mom and dad said, we own that. And And he said, number two, you just take things away from us so quickly without giving us a chance to fix the situation or do it differently.

20:42So we just give up trying anymore. We want a chance to do better. But mom and dad, you have to be more patient and show us instead of assuming we always know what to do. So the mom and dad said, we've been slowing down and having such great talks with our kids. We're realizing they're a lot more capable than we realized when we slow down and we give them tools. So definitely let your kids listen to the programs. Let them listen to the podcast. You will learn a lot by seeing your home life through the eyes of your kids. Okay, this week, let's practice some new skills. and in the next episode, we're going to go through very specific examples of how to discipline, not punish, discipline kids of all ages from toddlers through the teen years.

21:36So, thank you for listening. Thanks for sharing the podcast. If we can help you in any way, reach out to Casey at C-A-S-E-Y at CelebrateCalm.com. All right, much respect to you all.