Q&A With Casey #1: Mistaking Intensity for Unhappiness, Feeling Like A Bad Kid & More #623

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2:57Casey:Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners$30 off their 15-inch calendars by going to myskylight.com slash parenting. Go to myskylight.com slash parenting for$30 off your 15-inch calendar. That's M-Y-S-K-Y-L-I-G-H-T dot com slash parenting. All right, I am super excited for this episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. I've never had a guest on this podcast, so today's special guest is my son Casey, because so many of you are tired of my voice, and you just wanted to get insight from Casey because he has lived the life of a strong-willed child from the time he was basically born. And so I thought it would be extra good insight.

3:41Casey:I asked on Instagram, hey, what questions do you want to ask Casey? And we've got some really good questions. So welcome to Casey. And here's your first question. No pressure, son. So what kinds of decisions felt especially important for you to make yourself as a kid? Obviously, all of the decisions. Kind of kidding there, but I'm sure you recognize that from my childhood. But because so much of our kids' lives are controlled and managed by adults, having some source of autonomy is super important. So I think it's important to let your kids make bad decisions and learn from them, especially when they're younger.

4:19I remember when I was 12 years old, I really wanted to... I was convinced that a bike wasn't good enough. So I wanted to buy this scooter because I was kind of lazy at age 12. And so I spent like half of my savings on this electric scooter and I was so excited about it. And I had my self-convinced that it was like this brilliant idea and it was going to be great. And it broke on like day three and I couldn't fix it. And my dad's terrible at fixing things. So it was just kind of a disaster and I wasted almost, you know, half of my money on it. Um, so I, I mean, I learned to wait to make larger purchases and not impulsively buy things.

4:59Um, so anyway, letting your kids fail when they're young and they're in the safety of your home versus protecting them all of their childhood and then letting them fail later when the stakes are kind of higher. Um, I think it's important to let them make as many decisions as they can.

5:15Casey:Yeah, I like that because they're going to be adults one day. So why not? Okay, how do you respond to negative self-talk? Because a mom or dad had written, hey, my son gets annoyed and frustrated if I try to compliment or reassure him, but he also expects a response so I can't just ignore it. So what do you say and what do you not say? I totally get that. I would say try leaving your son some notes or texts. I don't know how old he is, but we have kind of this idea of drive-by praise, which is giving kids compliments kind of makes them feel awkward and they don't know what to say or how to respond, but they still want to receive those compliments.

5:57So if you can do it either like non-verbally through written notes or a quick comment like, hey, I'm super proud of you for how you're handling this, school sports whatever and then walk away and don't make it like this big deal um because that

6:11Casey:just kind of makes them shut down okay and it also is like then they're like okay thanks dad for your affirmation that means a lot to me that then you're not expecting a response it's kind of a good way to do it um what is the best motivation to get kids to just listen and make better choices um i think think through for yourselves like what's the best motivation for anything in your own life um generally and understanding that like a good decision or a trade-off in the short term is going to pay off in the long term so how does it benefit them to make a good decision so kind of like reframe things for your kids why does it benefit them to get off of screens or video games or whatever why does it benefit them to do whatever it is that you want them to do a couple examples of this.

7:03One, when I was kind of early preteen, I loved playing video games. And I decided to get off of the video games a few minutes early. And the idea behind that was if I thought if I could get off of the video games a little bit early or at the exact time my parents gave me, that I would show them that they could trust me. And if they could trust me, then they wouldn't have to nag me or remind me to do things so much. So the idea eventually became like, if your parents can trust you to control yourselves, then they won't have to try to control you. For older kids, at some point, my parents kind of sat me down and explained that whether I did my homework or not, it affected my life, not theirs.

7:48So helping your kids connect, ideally without like the anxious parent lectures, how their current choices impact their future. I remember I officiated ice hockey and I remember my dad telling me early on, like, if you take the early games, the 5 a.m., the 6 a.m. games that no one wants because it's really cold, it's dark in the winter and you don't want to wake up. If you take those games and you show up and you do well, then later on they're going to give you whatever schedule you want. and so and and that ended up happening and that was a huge lesson so early lessons of like sacrifice in the short term equals long-term gain I would try to kind of teach your kids that

8:33Casey:um do you also want to thank me publicly because I'm the one who got up at 5 a.m to take you to those games and I got nothing out of it thank you um you did get something out of it I bought apple stock with it and now I buy you dinner sometimes that's true you know what when your kids get older, they buy you dinner and they buy you stuff. So hang in there. It works out and it's really cool. Okay. So a parent said, Hey, I'm curious to know what Casey thinks helped to contribute to his positive relationship with you as his parent, despite having gone through so much in his childhood, which basically means I was kind of a jerky dad when he was younger, but we've kind of worked on that.

9:14Casey:Does he also have a strong relationship with his mom? And this was a mom who said, this is my biggest fear with my child now. He's six. So Case, what do you think? He's six. So you're good. Yes. I think my mom understood a lot of this entire like kind of calm philosophy way before my dad did. It was kind of natural for my mom. So throughout like the early years, my mom was the safe parent. But later on, we did like kind of diverge in our interests, like definitely in my teenage years. And I think that's super common for teenage boys and moms, especially. We didn't really have a lot in common in the teen years, but we mean we found a couple things we could connect on and ended up kind of maintaining our relationship by doing weekly coffee dates where we just talk about whatever was on, like whatever we were thinking about.

10:10and she let go of the idea that we were going to be best friends and I think that was huge because it took the pressure off of me as a teenager who was naturally kind of separating from my parents like I still wanted a relationship with them but it's normal that your friends are way more important than your parents at that age so my biggest advice as your kids get older would be to give them a little bit of space and then spend time noticing what they do well versus what they need to improve. If like every interaction is, I wish you did your homework faster. I wish you did it when you first got home, all the things that they need to get better at, then they're just going to shut down and not want to spend time with you.

10:53So focus on things that they're doing well in their lives. Can I ask you a question?

10:59Casey:Yeah. I know this will mess you up to interrupt you. But there's a fear. There's a use. There's a fear among parents. Well, if I give my child space, like what if they don't step up? But what is it about that that actually caused you in some ways to step up even more? I mean, I think it's just the pressure when you put pressure on people, they don't want to do things like I think about like friends who want to hang out with you all the time oh yeah it makes you not want to hang out with them but if they give you some space then you're like you have time to you have time to like kind of miss them and want to do something with them yeah well then no that's good but that's also then it's your autonomy and your choice when you want to like one of our famous things was hey case thanks for sharing that i've got an idea that i'd love to share with you sometime if you're interested come grab me later yeah that was giving you the autonomy okay and then what was like for our relationship what what helped kind of uh heal that and make that better mostly you interrupting me um helped a lot um but uh no watching kind of watching my dad humble himself and he apologized to me and he actually made changes instead of just telling me he was going to make changes um I don't think I appreciated that a ton when I was 11.

12:23But like as an adult, I realized how difficult it is to change patterns and behaviors that you've been doing for a long time. So that was kind of the beginning of respect. The second thing I think is you you did a really good job of taking an interest in my life and things I was passionate about, which I didn't feel like you you were a good active like involved dad but we had very different interests for the first 10 years and so it was cool like it was nice to see you take an interest in what I like doing even though I knew you weren't like loving it like you didn't love cars um and I love that so it was like you know that and that that kind of built an underlying um respect yeah I think that's good

13:15Casey:I mean, I think I and I would encourage parents as your kids get older, like just take an interest in what they're in. Like Casey, his wife, do ski mountaineering stuff. So we go to avalanche movies and films and talks and stuff about that. So it's kind of cool. We have three kids under the age of seven for some reason. I'm kidding. Sometimes I wonder about who they will be as adults and how they will deal with the anger and anxiety. And will that always be something they have to work on as their father and I do? We use our tools to help them as children. But I guess I would love any advice or encouragement to ward off that worry that they won't be able to handle those feelings as adults.

14:01Casey:So what do you think, Case? I think they'll be able to handle those feelings as adults. I mean, we all have that. So they probably, I mean, they will have to deal with anger and anxiety. Like that's something we all deal with. I would focus on keep modeling the behavior that you want them to have in adulthood. So acknowledge when you're anxious, make time for yourself, for self-care, communicate openly with your spouse and with your kids, admit when you mess up, apologize for mistakes. Like just overall being open is huge. And the biggest teaching tool you have as a parent is your own behavior because that's what they're watching every single day.

14:40Can I interrupt?

14:42Casey:Do you remember any of my lectures? Yeah. OK. No, not really. What do you remember from childhood? I mean, I remember what you and mom did and like how you interacted with me and other people and watching how you handled your anxiety. So it wasn't just like if you got angry and started yelling and stormed off and drove off. Like, I mean, you have these vivid memories of you like driving really freaking fast and your Toyota 4Runner down the like residential road because you're angry. And that's apparently how guys get out their anger. but like you want that's like the negative side but then I remember later on when it got to be more healthy and it was like hey I'm really frustrated right now so I'm gonna go for a walk let's chat when we get back and then that teaches me okay instead of just like storming off and leaving your family when you get upset you could just tell them you're coming back and you're gonna go for a few minute walk to like breathe and calm down and then you're gonna have a good conversation and repair when you get back.

15:50So it's more about what you observed

15:52Casey:than any great lectures that we had, for sure. Okay, what else for those kids under seven to help this mom out? I think kids usually are the worst for their parents. Like their behavior is gonna be the worst in front of people who unconditionally love them, i.e. like mom and dad. Like I knew my mom was gonna love me no matter what I did. So I felt comfortable. I can hold it together all day at school and then I'd get home and melt down in front of my mom. So I think trying to remind yourself that you are the safe place. So sometimes it looks like they can't handle something. It may just be that they're super comfortable with you and they would get it together in public or when they're with teachers or friends or other adults.

16:41I wouldn't assume that like the behavior that you see at home is what other people are seeing outside the home. Because, again, their behavior is often super different outside the home. Like I was great for some of my teachers. Why was that? Because they didn't have the same anxiety that you had and we didn't butt head. Like it was just it's just different. And because you had to, because my teacher doesn't love me the way that mom loves me. like the teacher you know isn't gonna have the same level of patience for me um at least that was my perception um but that yeah I think that and then as they get older I would invest extra time I mean even now invest more time into things that you enjoy uh two major reasons for that one it's great behavior to model for your kids and two I think parents get wrapped up pretty frequently in doing like all they think about is their kids.

17:40And so that puts a lot of pressure on kids. It's a lot of anxiety. So if you can step back, do some other things that interest you, it kind of takes your mind off of worrying about the kids and putting that anxiety onto them.

17:55Casey:Yeah, that's good insight. Okay, next question is my favorite one. So we talked on a recent podcast about helping disorganized kids get organized as school begins. So I have an idea for you. Let your kids browse with you through Wayfair.com's huge selection of organizing tools. Let them choose bins and desk supplies they can use to feel more confident and in control of their space. I'm using Wayfair.com's 20 million verified five-star reviews to upgrade my home office where I record the podcast. Because you know how good it feels to be organized and have a place for everything. We love Wayfair because they have a huge selection of home decor and organizing items that are easy to find and order with great prices that fit any budget and fast-free shipping.

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19:28Casey:It's like having a personal shopper and chef all in one so you can spend less time planning and more time enjoying your kids. You're going to love Hunger Root as much as we do. For a limited time, get 40 % off your first order. Plus, get a free item in every box for life. Go to hungeroot.com slash calm and use code calm. That's hungeroot.com slash calm, code calm to get 40 % off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. and let me know which meals you love most. Hungerroot.com slash calmco.com. So Case, as a mother of an almost eight-year-old going through this, I would love to know what you think you needed most from the closest adults in your life then and now.

20:14Casey:And she also wants to know, was it a struggle to be happy? My biggest concern for my son is how will he be able to navigate this to be content and happy? I just don't want to see him struggle. Yeah, I imagine the happiness question is pretty personal. I'm really lucky to have a really happy and hyper kind of disposition. But I definitely struggle with happiness if I'm confined to things that I don't like doing. I had like I had a surgery and man wasn't able to do the things that I love doing that are all active and physical. And I was pretty like I struggled with that. So but like overall, I'm lucky because I feel like I'm overall happy.

20:55and a lot of these kids are but looking back I think what I needed the most from the adults around me was to know really that they like genuinely liked and enjoyed me and not just when I was cooperative or calm or easy to be around or chill but also when I was intense frustrated or like questioning things or struggling with things I think it was important to know that they enjoyed me then too, that it wasn't always like behavior dependent. Um, I also wouldn't assume that the lack of intense or that, that the intensity that they're feeling and expressing is a lack of happiness. I'm a really intense person.

21:37Um, but I'm also very happy.

21:39Casey:So I think that's my favorite insight is don't assume the intensity is a lack of happiness. So we've, I've talked on the podcast and I'll put you on the spot here, the catastrophizing that you do. Like if we're like that time, like when you plan to hike for us and it's foggy, it's not going well. You don't say, oh darn, wish this stupid fog would go away. Like you say words that we can't do on the podcast, but what's going on inside of you? What's causing that? I mean, basically it's just the like an incongruence between expectation and reality. I have this expectation that I'm going to take you to this awesome spot and you're going to get a beautiful view.

22:26And the whole morning it's foggy. And I'm thinking, OK, now we're like working really hard. It's basically just processing disappointment in real time. And I think a lot of the intensity that you experience with these kids is that kind of like live processing where it's like, I just need, and you know this now about me, I just need the space to vent about what I'm frustrated with or to go through that process of dealing with disappointment.

22:59Casey:That's really good insight. Now, if during that time I had said, Case, you know what's really ruining our morning? It's your attitude, right? Like if I had said that, he just gave me the finger. So I'm going to tell you. Yeah. So me being quiet and just knowing I don't have to fix that, that it doesn't mean you're going to be unhappy all day, that you're not unhappy in life. It's you said you're processing it live. Yeah, this is actually something I deal with with with my wife frequently is like she's always shocked because I get like I'll get like really upset for like. seven minutes and I'll be like really intense about it it'll be like I'll be super disappointed and yeah just really intense for like seven minutes and she takes that as like okay the whole night's like ruined and then her whole night's ruined but like then I bounce back like 10 minutes later and I'm like well are you ready to like go do whatever like now I've processed that our original plan has like fallen through so like are we ready to like talk about like solutions and what we're going to do next.

24:07And she's like, well, like four minutes ago, you were like stomping around the house saying the whole night's ruined. And now you're like, let's enjoy our night. Like, how does that work? I think it's again, it's just you feel it very intensely. You need to process it and you do everything with intensity. And then once you're done, you're like, OK, now I can move on. But if I didn't go through the intensity, then I wouldn't be able to move on.

24:33Casey:So from your standpoint, in some ways it's advantageous because rather than just simmer over it for like the whole night or several days, you're like, boom, I'm going to get it up. I'm going to process it. And now I'm good. Exactly. And so the other person, part of it, like in your marriage, like you'll modify some of that. But we also like are learning like, OK, I need I know I need to go do some like physical activity and remove myself from the situation for a few because my wife is all. Well, and she's also like a very sensitive and empathetic person. And I'm, you know, all over the place. You're not an empath?

25:15Casey:No. All those some friends might say I am. Yeah, no, they don't know you. Okay, so good. I love that part. And I almost that's just really good. Okay, case, what would you tell your eight year old self? probably that there's nothing wrong with me. Like you're not too intense or too energetic or too difficult. I mean, I'm not necessarily saying this to myself because it sounds mildly narcissistic, but if I were telling another eight-year-old, it would be like, you know, you're strong, you have a strong mind, you have big emotions and strong convictions, and those qualities probably frustrate adults right now, your teachers, your parents, your family.

26:01But like one day those qualities could lead to courage, leadership, creativity, perseverance.