Scripts For Kids Who Talk Back, Lash Out, Won’t Listen, Refuse to Move No Matter Your Consequence? #555

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2:18Or do they just refuse to listen and do what you ask? You're not alone. So how do the different parenting approaches, that more authoritarian, the very sweet, or kind of the calm, authoritative leader, how do those approaches sound in each situation? What actually works best in each situation? education, that is what we're going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. Welcome, this is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us at celebratecalm.com. So in the last episode, we discussed the three parenting approaches, kind of that old school authoritarian, the really sweet and understanding approach, and obviously the one that we favor, the calm authoritative leadership approach.

3:02So listen to that episode about how to discipline kids with intense emotions if you haven't already. We agreed that our goal is to build a close, trusting relationship with our kids, connection. We agreed that we need to teach our kids how to control their own emotions and impulses, so teaching, and actually change the behavior and those situations so they don't keep recurring. So in this episode, I wanted to walk through common situations you will experience with strong-willed kids and then demonstrate how each parenting approach will kind of handle these situations because I think we can learn a lot from that.

3:46So, child talking back or using attitude. And I remember there being frequent times when Casey responded to us with attitude or talk back to me. And you know what that sounds like. Now, my initial response inside my head was what I would naturally say. It was kind of the authoritarian approach because I was raised by a career military, my way or the highway father, so that's what I knew. And that always sounds like, you can't talk to your father like that. Go to your room. And sometimes the goal of the old school approach was to send the child to their room and just shut this behavior down. And it did achieve its goal of getting kids to not talk back to their parents.

4:34And sometimes as modern day parents, we kind of lament like, oh, back in the day, we didn't talk back to our parents. So check mark on that point. But sometimes that came at a great cost to the relationship and to a lot of other things that are still playing out in your life now. Look, a mom just recently emailed and said it beautifully. I mean, tragically, but beautifully. I was sent to my room and when I was there I yelled and screamed and cried no one ever checked on me no one ever helped me well now you're going to grow up with this kind of feeling of abandonment nobody ever checked on me and usually the worst punishment was being unavailable emotionally to a hurting or upset child walking away in anger and that just produced kids who are afraid to speak up some of you are like that now right it's hard you're afraid to speak up afraid to express yourself you don't know how to handle conflict and you end up marrying a controlling spouse and sometimes working for a boss who takes advantage of you these things play out in our lives so yeah that old school approach changed the outward behavior, but it never taught the child or built a relationship.

5:55It was a huge missed opportunity and actually caused a lot of damage. Now, we can go too far the other way and at times almost excuse a child's disrespectful talk. And in some cases, we say, well, it's okay. She's just dysregulated. I want you to know sometimes kids are not dysregulated. They're just testing boundaries, and they get confused when we reply in a way that is too sweet and accommodating. And we can also fall into the trap of getting stuck endlessly talking about the child's emotions without teaching them a different way to express them. And sometimes that really sweet tone just sounds condescending, right?

6:42And I know I'm not meaning to be offensive to you moms and dads, but sometimes there's like well that hurts mommy's feelings and we don't use those words here and your strong-willed child is thinking well I just did it's kind of too syrupy sweet and your child already knows it's wrong so it's counterproductive to respond that way because you get walked all over and the child's thinking seriously you're talking to me like a baby see that can end up being confusing to kids. So I want to give you a range of possible responses within the framework of that calm authoritative leadership style. Some will be much tougher sounding and some will be a softer approach because you have different situations and you have to read the situation, discern what's going on.

7:37Now look, sometimes kids are testing boundaries. Casey used to get full of himself at times. I could just see it in him as in his tone, like, I'm going to show my mom, I'm going to show my dad. And sometimes kids hear other kids talking to their parents disrespectfully on TikTok, and they want to give it a shot. And so there's nothing wrong at all with taking a very tough, decisive approach when there's not something deeper going on. They're just testing boundaries. And it's fine to say, look, I don't know where you got the idea that it would ever be okay to talk to me or talk to us that way, but it's not, and it never will be.

8:19And if you think that you can talk to people like that in life and have them do nice things for you, oh, you're mistaken. That stops now. See, that's demonstrating perfectly clear boundaries and decisive action. And you can walk away and give your child some space to process that for a bit. But then I would come along later and invite that same child to go do something together because that gives an opportunity for them to apologize. You know, I like to go for walks and go for a drive and do things with our hands together while we're standing next to each other, not staring them in the eyes with like, so do you have something to say to me but it also gives them an opportunity to say if something else is really bothering them and we'll get to that in a minute you just don't send them to their room and leave them isolated but you can be very tough with your strong-willed kids because they will respect that as long as it's even matter of fact you're not taking it personally see here's where we get in trouble?

9:27You know what? I don't know. I don't know why you always have to talk to me like that. How are you ever going to be successful in life? You're just a disrespectful little snot who's never when I was a kid. No, we don't go on and on. It's clear, it's concise, and it's very decisive. Now, I want to address a tough situation that happens frequently in split custody, divorce situations because this just came up a teenage son is angry because mom left his dad and i get that and now the son is treating his mom horribly kind of mimicking the way he has heard his dad treat her and this happens all the time in our homes in homes because a lot of times kids are not going to take things out on their dad because look i'm just being honest a dad's love and acceptance?

10:22I'm not always sure. But with moms, it's almost always like the child knows no matter what I do, my mom is always going to love me and she will always be there for me. But I can't always count on that from my dad. So what do they do? They take things out on the mom. Not saying it's right. It's just common and it makes sense to me. So an appropriate response would be something like this to your child. Hey, I know you're mad at me for leaving your dad. I understand that. One of the reasons I left is to show you that it is never acceptable to treat another person like this and say demeaning things.

11:04Never. I'm happy to listen to you express your frustration and anger and consider different options, but this is never an option. I want you here, but if you need some space to process this, then you could consider staying with dad for a period of time until you can talk to me respectfully. Something like that establishes clear boundaries. You still said, I want you to be here. I want a relationship with you. Oh, but we're not doing a relationship as long as it's based on you talking to me in a demeaning way. I think that's a very fair and mature way to handle that. Now, again, in those situations, you're probably going to have to have a lot of deeper talks about all of their emotions and feelings, but I wanted to throw that out.

11:55Now, there were many times when Casey was just reactive and he would just spit out a disrespectful response. and one option I used at times was looking at him and saying in kind of a kind of like in a humble really low-key tone was you know that's just not going to work for you son can you kind of hear that it's kind of a resigned tone I'm not upping the ante of like you're not going to talk to me like that I it wasn't also like well son I can tell there's something going on no it was just like, you know, that's just not going to work for you, son. It's like I took the fire and sting out of it because I didn't take it personally.

12:37And there was a hint of, hey, I know something else is going on here and I'm glad to help you. But that response, it's never going to be okay with me. It's never going to work. Now, I often combine that with the following, which is my favorite response. Hey, Casey, I've noticed a pattern. The last several times you have spoken to me like that, it's because something else was going on. Because usually when you are frustrated, anxious, or hungry, that tone comes out. So you have two options. You may continue to talk to me like that, but you know it's not going to work out well for you. You're just going to end up losing stuff.

13:18See, can you hear that? There's no energy. It's just a matter of fact. You can do that if you want, but it just doesn't work well. But, and here's where the energy goes, if you want to grab some chips, I'll grab some salsa. I'll meet you on the deck in the basement, and I'll help you with whatever you're struggling with. See, I'm clear that that tone is not acceptable, but I'm also giving him insight into why he is using that tone. I'm teaching him what his triggers are. It's usually when you're anxious, frustrated, hungry. So I'm teaching and I'm offering to help him get to the root of it. I am inviting him to be with me.

14:02See, instead of go to your room until you can talk to me in a respectful tone, I'm inviting him to be with me and have the uncomfortable conversation. So I'm teaching him how to deal with conflict, right? And that is something our parents were not capable of, so they just shut us down. So I'm teaching, I'm connecting, I'm showing. And my goal is obviously I want him to stop using that tone, not because I need it. I'm a grown adult. If he uses tone, it's not like, oh my gosh, my day is ruined. You use tone with me. Stop that, moms and dads. It's like, oh, my teenager has attitude. Well, it would be weird if they didn't.

14:42So don't take it personally. But my real goal is, well, I don't want them to learn to use that tone because that doesn't work well in real life. But the most important thing that I want to teach is, here are healthier ways to deal with your anxiety, your frustration, and your hunger. See, I like that a lot. Now, what about when an anxious child is lashing out and refusing to go somewhere. So you have kids with busy brains who often feel like things are out of their control. And this includes kids with sensory processing needs who feel like their bodies are kind of out of control if they aren't getting that tactile pressure.

15:24So these kids struggle with changes and plans and transitions with unknowns. And unknowns trigger anxiety. It's why little things going wrong trigger meltdowns, why they're bossing, controlling, why they cheat and quit and change rules at games. So let's say it's time for your child to go to that new Taekwondo class that you signed them up for and you call up to your child to come downstairs. Now your child is going to resist and make up excuses. Oh, my stomach is upset. Can we just stay home? I promise I'll go next week. And when you keep pushing, this child may lash out and say, I'm not going.

16:00Taekwondo is stupid. You're stupid. By the way, do you know why they upped the ante here? It's because they know when they go straight to disrespect and they say forbidden words in your home like stupid, it will trigger you and result in them getting sent to their room with privileges taken away. And inside your anxious child is thinking, wow, see, I'm accustomed to being sent to my room and given consequences. I know how to deal with that. But don't make me go to some new activity where I might be rejected by another teacher, where I might get picked on by other kids, and where I might fail again.

16:46See how that works? So we have a huge advantage over our authoritarian parents with this because they had no idea about anxiety that was underneath the surface. We do. So back then, an angry parent would stand on the stairs or in the doorway and bark, yell or demand, man, I'm not going to ask you again. You get your butt in the car right now or I'll tan your behind. And so if you were smart as a kid, you obeyed and went sobbing to your class, not wanting to make your parents angry or get the belt. Obviously, that's not a good option. Our parents got us to the car and to the class, but at the cost of building trust when bigger things came up.

17:29Now, I've witnessed the kind of overly sweet response to this, and sometimes I have to be honest, it makes me cringe at times because that overly sweet parent may sit next to the child on their bed and frown with a sad face to commiserate. Oh honey, I can tell you're really upset. Would you like to talk about this? Now look, there's nothing wrong with that, especially in certain situations but you have to discern what's going on because sometimes the child, if smart, will talk extensively about how his stomach is upset. It's been a long week and they'll really pull on your heartstrings. And I know some people bristle at the thought that kids can be manipulative, but I don't see as a bad thing kids do.

18:18It's smart. This child has a very real and palpable fear of going to this new class and that's based on their experience of being picked on or not performing well. So they use their brain and their persuasion to get mom or dad to let them stay home. Why wouldn't they do that? This is a child who sees patterns very clearly. And they can sense that this parent isn't up for the ensuing conflict or is so empathetic that the child can use that to their advantage. So they may begin to cry and watch for their parents' reaction. and sometimes with the sweet approach the parent will try to convince the child to go but honey you're so good at this i think you're gonna have a really good time but trying to convince a strong-willed child especially with that tone usually backfires and the empathy look the empathy is really important and good but sometimes the conversation simply becomes all about feelings and you never go to the next step.

19:25And sometimes the child doesn't go to that new class. They miss out on new opportunities. So the good thing is you got the connection. You taught the child that you care, but sometimes you don't answer the question. They're usually screaming inside, which is, I already know how I'm feeling, but I need an adult. someone please show me what to do with these feelings show me how to overcome this anxiety because if we don't show them we leave them feeling helpless helpless to try new things and overcome the anxiety so here's the approach that i would take i hear the resistance and instead of reacting i kind of whisper to myself like okay control myself slow my world down and let's get to the root of the issue and problem solving.

20:20You're going to notice I'm going to use a mix of the two approaches above the two, the kind of more authoritarian, tougher approach and the really soft approach. I want to use a mix of that. So I may walk in the room and say, hey, is your stomach a little bit upset? And I'm going to get the head nod because anxiety lives in the stomach. It makes your stomach upset. And then I can respond with, well, of course, your stomach's upset. You should be a little bit nervous. You're going to a new place where you don't know anyone or know what to expect. Look, I feel this way when I have to go to parties with our friends or give presentations to clients.

20:58My stomach is always a little bit upset. Look, normalizing anxiety is extremely important. We're not excusing it. We're just normalizing it. You're normalizing the child's feelings instead of endlessly trying to figure them out because the The child often, they need our parental wisdom and leadership to help them know, hey, what do I do when I am feeling this way? And see, my tone is very even and matter of fact. Well, yeah, of course you're feeling this way. Of course you're nervous. See, that shows I'm not thrown off. I'm the adult. I can handle this. I've seen this before. So contrast this.

21:42see the yelling and threatening conveys, you know, just go to your room if you won't do this. That just conveys, I can't handle your moods. The overly sweet approach says, I don't know what to do either. So I'm just going to talk and listen and be supportive emotionally. But see, I don't think that's enough. I think that actually causes more anxiety and frustration for the child because inside they're like, wait, haven't you experienced this before? Don't you know what to do here? It's kind of like with separation anxiety when you're dropping your child off and say, oh honey, don't worry, you're going to have a really good day.

22:22Mommy and daddy will be back later. And now you kind of just created more anxiety for your child. But see, I've got a confident tone. I've been here. I've seen this before. And I know, I encourage you have to practice this because it doesn't sound emotionally sweet to some of you. For some of you, it's going to sound kind of cold, but I'm telling you, it's not. It's very comforting to talk like this. So now I'm normalizing the child's anxiety, and I'm saying, I've seen this before. I know how to handle this. So now I'm a source of help instead of just pity or empathy. See, I'm empathizing, but I'm also helping.

23:04So now I lead. And I like saying things like, you know, I've discovered a couple things in life. When I'm anxious, if I get to the office a few minutes early and have a mission to focus on, like getting the PowerPoint set up or the room set up, or if I have to go to a party, helping the host hand out snacks, man, that helps me focus on what I can control instead of all the things I can't. You know, I bet there have been a hundred times I didn't want to go to some event, but once I got there, I kind of relaxed and enjoyed it. See, now you're just speaking truth about your own experience rather than trying to convince a child.

23:45And it will also connect with them because now it will connect like, oh yeah, the last 10 times I didn't want to go to someplace. once I got there, I did actually have a good time. And so it's connecting because that's truth. Now I may lead and provide a little space. You know, I'm going to grab my coat. Why don't you meet me in the car in five minutes and we'll come up with a plan. See, I'm not dismissing the child's emotions. I've acknowledged it. I just didn't leave him there feeling helpless. I'm leading with confidence. Now, ideally with anxiety, I'd love to set this up ahead of time. I would take my child who struggles with anxiety three days ahead of time to the Taekwondo place so they can get used to the sounds, to the smells, what it's like, because your kids are super sensitive and they see patterns and they absorb all of this.

24:39So I go and I might meet the Taekwondo guy and say, Hey, Mr. Taekwondo, my son, my daughter's going to be in your class on Thursday nights. My child loves helping out. Do you have a job that they could do? And if Taekwondo person says, hey, I could really use your help. I'm psyched you're going to be here. Hey, could you get here five minutes early each week so that you can set up the cones, set up the mats, help me out? And your kids love helping other adults. So when you come back on that night and say, hey, we've got Taekwondo tonight, what triggers in your child's brain is not all the unknowns.

25:14It's mom, dad, remember Taekwondo guy needs my help. He said to get there five minutes early. so we need to leave like three and a half hours early so we're not late because that's what they'll do. They wanna be there early because that's what you do when you have anxiety. And they will walk into that room because they're not thinking of the unknowns. They have a mission to do. That's why I like teachers giving our kids missions to do. So here's how I would use that. I know in many of your homes, you and your spouse are not on the same page. So have a talk and say, hey, honey, I realize that sometimes I'm too soft and accommodating with the kids.

25:53Could you help me with that? Now, that's a subtle approach that you could take because now you're taking ownership. You're not coming in and saying you're an overbearing, hard, you know what, with your approach and the kids don't like you. No, I could say, hey, I realize I'm too soft and accommodating sometimes. And sometimes your responses seem to be a little bit more on the authoritarian side. could we listen to this podcast and try to bring the best of both approaches so we can meet in the middle see I like that approach with a spouse who might be resistant and you can listen to the podcast together and discuss them if you really want to make changes go through the programs together because that'll really help with that now look I lied to you I told you last week we would and today I would talk about how to handle kids who are not listening.

26:48But I think this is enough for today and we'll cover that another time. And I said I deal with detail why using that phrase, when you're ready is so powerful, but I'm going to save that as well. So let's work on this. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing the podcast with other parents. Thank you for working so hard, breaking these old patterns. This is hard work. So this week, let's practice this even matter-of-fact tone. Let's practice being empathetic But also leading and not leaving our kids feeling helpless So we can connect and lead and teach moms and dads. You've got this hey if we can help you in any way Let us know love you all.

27:24Bye-bye