Stop Fights Over Screens For Toddlers Through Teens #517

0:00So we just got back from our annual family vacation at the beach. Guess what everyone was jealous of? our cozy earth cooling bamboo sheets and stylish beach towel, which is heavenly soft and dry so quickly. Yeah, we love our cozy earth bamboo sheets so much, we travel with them. Look, after a long summer day hiking or working outside, being in the sand, there is nothing more satisfying than slipping under the heavenly softness of our cozy earth bamboo sheets. They naturally wick away heat moisture from your body and that helps you sleep several degrees cooler and lounging around in our cozy earth bamboo shorts t-shirts and pjs all summer 10 out of 10 comfortable and cooling made from viscose from bamboo breathable soft and built for summer head to cozy earth.com use my code calm for an exclusive 20 off that's code calm for an exclusive 20 off at cozy earth.com and please tell cozy earth the calm guy sent you So Casey and I were talking about his other job, which requires a team working together in a fast-paced environment with lots of moving parts and details to manage.

1:11And I blurted out, you guys should use Skylight Calendar because then you'd have all the details laid out visually, which with each employee's tasks highlighted in different colors, you won't miss anything. And that's why I keep hearing from moms and dads who use Skylight Calendar to reduce the stress and to miss ballgames. Skylight is especially helpful with our kids. Visually seeing the schedule can kind of help with that, reduce anxiety, give them a sense of control. You can try Skylight for four months, and if you're not 100 % thrilled, you can return it for a full refund, no questions asked.

1:46Families are better when they're working together. Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15-inch calendars by going to myskylight.com slash parenting. Go to myskylight.com slash parenting for$30 off your 15-inch calendar. That's M-Y-S-K-Y-L-I-G-H-T dot com slash parenting. So what are appropriate guidelines for screens for kids of all ages? What if you have a child that's kind of addicted to it? How do you go about rescuing that child and getting them off of that screen? What do you do as your kids get a little bit older? Can you give them a smartphone and expect them to be able to control it?

2:30That is what we're going to discuss on today's special episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us in our back-to-school sale at CelebrateCalm.com. So this is going to be a little bit different, and I want to give some caveats, some principles, and then we'll kind of go by age group. Obviously, I can't cover everything in one podcast, but I hope you find this very, very helpful. So first, no blame, no guilt. People get afraid to listen to something on screens because then it's going to be like, oh, well, I don't want it to be a thing of like, well, if you let your child do X, then you're a bad parent.

3:06Every family is different. Your situations are different. Sometimes there are single parents, overwhelmed parents, parents who are taking care of the grandparents, and you're exhausted. Two parents each working two or three jobs. And so I get it. And so I want to try to go through a range from the ideal situation that we all want to the less ideal and what is very, very realistic. I also want to frame this differently. To me, being tough with your kids on screen is a very compassionate thing to do. You are doing for your child, whether they are a toddler or teen or in between, you are doing for your child what they cannot do for themselves.

3:52And you are going to be accused you're too strict. And I would reframe that and say, are you being too strict or are you just being a responsible parent who's doing the right thing? I do not want to make this about fear that screens are the enemy. No, the enemy of our kids is no connection, a lack of confidence. And the solution isn't just, hey, let's take away all screens because then there would be other things they get into. No, the solution is always primarily relationships. Relationship with you, relationships with themselves. We want kids who have a positive outlook on life, who have confidence, a sense of meaning and purpose, who have good friendships.

4:38When you get all of those things going well, then the screens don't become as difficult a problem. Now, there are going to be times where you are going to have to be tough. And I would just call that being the parent. And I don't want you to feel like you're being mean because some of you are just so sweet. and maybe you didn't want to be like your parents who are harsh, but you're listening to the Calm Parenting Podcast. You're good, intentional parents. You're not going to be like them. So a few principles. Remember, whenever we say no to something inappropriate, we say yes to something appropriate.

5:18You must fill and meet the deeper needs. You can't just say, hey, you know that thing that you do that you love that brings you so much joy and dopamine hits that you feel in control of and you connect with your friends over, yeah, cut it out, stop doing it. That's a fine, it's a first start, but we have to fill it with something else. Realize as well, there's different aspects of screens, right? We would prefer screens that involve stories and that are long form. Like watching movies on a screen is much more preferable to watching YouTube shorts. or getting those short dopamine hits of TikTok and Instagram videos, because there's stories, even video games.

6:04Video games often have stories in them. There's strategic thinking. There's a purpose. You have to work together as a team. Am I saying, well, just let your kids do it all day because of that? Absolutely not. But I'm saying there is a difference there, and I really want you to think about that. So delay, delay, delay, delay. I can tell you as a parent, you will never, ever, ever, ever regret delaying your toddler or your middle school child or third grader from getting a screen. You won't regret that. Understand as well that you and I probably have kids who have ADHD or they're on the spectrum, neurodivergent kids who at times can have more addictive personalities.

6:51These are kids who will seek to, they really like the brain stimulation and need it. And so they're susceptible to these things. And then if they struggle with social skills, they can always kind of hide behind this. So just realize that as a backdrop. Okay, guidelines. So toddlers, the ideal is this. No iPad, no screens. This is hard because I know so many of you, you just have tough situations. Like I've got to give my toddler something because I've got to cook dinner and I'm taking care of my aging parent. I'm doing these things and I get that. But as much as possible, I would not give them the iPad.

7:34When your kids are little, this is the time for their imagination to flourish. For them to figure out how to overcome their own boredom. To be creative and explore. I'd encourage you, let them make messes. Some of you are control freaks and you're neat freaks. And so, well, it's really nice when my toddler is on the iPad because guess what? They don't make messes. Let your kids make messes. Feed their curiosity. I'm imploring you on this because once you give them screens, you open a Pandora's box and it begins to change their brain and they will always, always, always want to seek what's on the screen rather than using their own imagination.

8:20and so if you have done this and you're like hey I don't want to do that anymore just be decisive you don't have to have a long talk with them I'll do a longer talk later for your older kids but the younger kids I'm not looking for them to validate or to say you know what you're right mommy they're going to be mad you decisively just take it away remember we have to fill it with games, with you playing with them, with getting outside. If there is a big reaction to it, then you know you did the right thing because you have a young child who is already getting hooked on the screen. Okay, as we get a little bit older into elementary school, again, delay, delay, delay, get them outside, doing projects, having a little side business, helping neighbors with things, lead them outside but I also want to as you begin to introduce screens maybe you're letting them have a certain amount of time on YouTube or playing video games teach them impulse control I'm going to give you an example now and you're going to have to change around the use the time limits that work for you but it basically sounds like this so you come in to say you have a couple kids and they're on video games in the afternoon hey guys this afternoon I'm going to give you 47 minutes to play your video games.

9:42Here's how it works. After that 47 minutes is up, I come back into the room. If you are still on your video games or if when I come in and remind you to turn them off, you say, oh no, we just need to save it. We need to get to the next level. You will have chosen to lose your video games for the next three days. I don't care what the time limit is. I don't care how many days you take away. And you can the first couple times give them a little bit of mercy because they're probably going to do that whole, oh no, we need to save it. But over time, I want your kids to learn how to manage their own screen time.

10:16And the reason I like doing this is because it's very concrete for them. And what I can do, and I like the interesting time limits because it sticks in the brains, in their brains. And you're also saying, hey, if you do this, you are choosing to lose them for three days. I do not want you to go through that that endless cycle throughout their entire childhood hold on can I just play for a little while longer please I promise I promise and then it's just endless fights I'd rather you just be very decisive about that and and handle it this way now when you take away their video games and they let's say they just keep playing you can say hey just I'm cool with this but every minute that you go over now then you lose another day however you want to do it just know that they're never going to say mother father thank you for caring so much about us that you're trying to teach us impulse control that's not going to happen they're going to be angry and upset but you take it away there's no drama there's no lectures you know what if you would have turned it off when I told you to I gave you so many warnings when we were kids we didn't even have screens.

11:28None of that. Even matter of fact, no drama. Now here's what you can add to it with younger kids to teach them delayed gratification. Guys, I'm going to give you 47 minutes. If you turn off your video games two minutes early today, after 45 minutes, you set your alarm. I will give you an additional six or eight or 10 minutes tomorrow because here's what we're teaching them. If you demonstrate delayed gratification, I give up two minutes today, I get an extra eight minutes tomorrow. Oh, I like how that works. It's a practical way to do that. I would encourage you spend a lot of time with elementary school age practicing impulse control.

12:12I've done podcasts on that. It is in our Discipline That Works program. If you have that, listen to that. The most powerful way you can teach impulse control is to model it yourself. And you're going to have to practice when you're around your kids, put your phone down, give them eye contact, give them all of your emotional energy and your intense emotional engagement. That's what your kids really want. You could call a family meeting and say, guys, look, screen usage in our home is out of control. And immediately they're going to be like, oh they're going to take away our screens and instead you say you know what we're distracted sometimes when we're supposed to be focused on you we pull up to pick you up at school heads in our phone what could we begin doing differently around the house let your kids come up ideas for you and then if you as the leaders in the home own that and when you're in the car instead of having the phone in your hand or your lap looking at it at red lights you put it inside the glove box or somewhere else, you are modeling for them how to do this.

13:20I would have some traditions in your home that you keep. Hey, technology-free Tuesday. Maybe it is that every night between 4 and 6 p.m., no screens in the house. You connect while you eat dinner. Definitely no screens at the dinner table when you're at home. I get it. Sometimes you're on vacation, you're out, you do that stuff. I get it. But overall, try to have some traditions that you do. Maybe one Saturday or Sunday per month or one weekend, you do a little detox and you go out for a hike. and you go for the weekend and you say we're not going to use this all day or for six hours whatever it is make progress and let your kids feel what that feels like to be free from that for all those hours or that certain period of time now what do we do when we get into the middle school and high school years because now we've got to decide okay when do kids get uh smartphones When do I let them on social media?

14:19Let's attack that right now. So I love getting messages that aren't about parenting. A mom said, we are on a three-week road trip this summer with four kids. Yes, we're playing your parenting programs because the kids think they're learning our secrets. But what has helped a ton is the Cure Hydrating Packets. The kids love, and occasionally fight over, the different flavors, and they are amazed we keep letting them have Cure. We didn't tell them they're healthy, so they think they're drinking something loaded with sugar when there's none in there. Cure has saved us tons of money because they're not begging us for sodas and sports drinks.

15:00Our strong-willed son, of course, will only drink the adult flavors. And they even take them into restaurants to mix in the water. That's awesome. Look, if you need to resupply on the road, you can now get Cure at Target. or get 20 % off at CureHydration.com with code CALM. That's CureHydration.com, code CALM. So mom emailed and said, I have two picky eaters at home. One is eight and the other is 38. With Hungry Root, I can order meals tailored to the needs of our family without going down 14 different aisles. And Hungry Root now knows our preferences, so they recommend meals I wouldn't have even thought of.

15:44My picky son now prepares red sauce tortellini with Italian sausage by himself three times per week. Everyone is happy. We're not eating out as much. We're not stressed at mealtime. And my son is trying new things because he feels in control. You're going to love hunger root as much as we do. For a limited time, get 40 % off your first order. Plus, get a free item in every box for life. Go to HungryRoot.com and use code CALM. That's HungryRoot.com to get 40 % off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. You're going to love Hungry Root. So in general, I subscribe to Jonathan Haidt's recommendations.

16:29He's the author of The Anxious Generation. Look him up. He's fantastic. No smartphone until high school if you can do that. no social media until 16 look at the research on this instagram is really really destroying a lot of girls their self-confidence their body image it is brutal for them tick tock awful for our boys and their focus and attention snapchat just look it up sometime people sign up Adults will go and sign up as like a 14-year-old girl and then watch what Snapchat starts feeding them. There's a lot of stuff on suicide. Very, very sexual. Look, our kids in the middle school age, they are going through puberty.

17:16And so they are susceptible to porn, to so many negative images that get in there that you and I, here's the compassionate part. You and I did not have to fight all of this when we were in middle school. Now, some of you are younger, so you did, but most of us didn't have to do this and go through this. We had to really seek this stuff out. But now kids can scroll and see all kinds of death and destruction and people being humiliated and violent. I have a hard time and I'm a grown man. So I would encourage you to do that. Now, I also want you to know, look, you have to know your kids. Some of you have really mature kids who can handle more.

18:03Some of you have immature kids who can't handle it all. So you can't use this as a blanket recommendation. But you do have to be aware of this and know that even we've had friends who have teenagers and a very, very motivated girl who does all of her schoolwork on top of everything and still starts to look at her own body like, oh, there's something wrong with me. and a teenage boy who's like just starting to get addicted to certain things. So middle school with a smartphone, your kids are going to want the smartphone. I would encourage you, give them a dumb phone, a flip phone. Once you give your child a smartphone, your family life will begin to become dominated by that smartphone and it will become endless, endless battles.

18:53and I understand your kids are going to be like, but all of my friends are on here and if I don't have a smartphone, I can't keep up with them. And that's a very, very real concern. I don't dismiss that. And at the same time, I'm the grown-up and the truth is all the other kids aren't. Most of them, unfortunately, are in middle school. But that doesn't mean that I have to sacrifice my child because everybody else, I don't want to say did the wrong thing, but kind of gave in. Yes, they are going to struggle with this, but not suffer. Remember, we've talked about that. I want kids to struggle. Look, it's going to be harder for you.

19:37You just have a flip phone and they all have smartphones. And so you're going to miss out on some of those conversations. You're going to struggle and it's going to be harder for you, which means you're going to have to be more resourceful in how you make friends and create your friendships. But see, I don't mind them struggling with that. I want to keep them from suffering. And they do suffer because of all of the images and all of the influences coming in. And because it's severely hampering our kids and their ability to focus on things for a long time and body image. So how I see it is, yeah, my child's going to struggle, but I'm saving them from having to suffer.

20:23It is I care about you too much to allow this to overtake your life and our family life. So I would be pretty rigid when it comes to the smartphone and say no. And parents are always like, oh, it's a safety issue. Well, if it's a safety issue, just get them a flip phone because then they can call you if something happens and they can text you but they don't have all the other stuff going on video games in middle school I want you to know for a lot of our kids it is very very normal in middle school it's kind of a hibernation phase and these kids are going through puberty and there's all these hormones and they're awkward and so it's not uncommon for our kids to sit in that same hoodie sweatshirt for 16 straight days right and play video games.

21:10So I'm not saying excuse it, but it's pretty normal. I don't get that afraid of that, as long as they're pretty healthy in other ways. But think about with video games. This is going to have to be very, very quick. Sometimes, why do kids play video games? There's order and structure. They know exactly what to expect. There's not a mom video game and a dad video game with different rules and expectations so they have some level of control. Your kids tend to be very good at video games, which means competence. Confidence comes from competence, being good at something. They're good at it. They use their strategic thinking skills, problem-solving skills.

21:50It is often a way for them to connect with their peers. Is it the optimal, ideal way? No, it's not, but it is one way to do it. So when we come in and we're like, hey, you know that thing that you're doing that meets all of those internal needs? Hey, cut it out. Stop it. Well, remember, we have to fill it in with other activities. And some other time I'll do this. I've done it on podcasts. It's in our programs. We have a screens program and a motivating kids program in the package. But I go through this, how we did this with Casey. And we transitioned him from being kind of really into his video games because they were meeting all these needs to meeting those needs in other ways.

22:28and he started to learn how to fly an airplane and he got a job reffing hockey games. That got him connection and it stimulated his brain and he stopped playing video games so much because we met the same internal needs through other positive constructive activities and that's why I'm so big into getting your kids to go down and help an elderly neighbor, to do service projects, to volunteer at an animal shelter, to work with little kids because they're really good at that. And I know parents always want, well, how many hours for each age? I can't give you a blanket recommendation. I would say as few hours as possible because I want to be doing other things and filling that time with other constructive activities.

23:12So as we get into high school, and this is combined with middle school as well, but here are a couple issues. And again, I am in lockstep here with Jonathan Haidt. He recommends no, no smartphone in the bedroom. Definitely not overnight. Let them use screens in a common place. They're going to fight you. But you have to realize there are things out there now, and I don't do the fear thing, right? But there are things that we have to be aware of with AI, with sexual traffic. Look, with little kids playing Roblox, Roblox you really have to watch because there are adults on there that infiltrate.

23:54Your kids are at risk there. And again, you know I'm not sounding the alarm, take them all out of your home. But they are legitimate real risks. and the kids who have a smartphone and screens in their bedrooms where you can't see things or in the dark, they're probably going to get into stuff. And look, you get addicted to porn, you get into some of these things that are happening, that will lead you down a path. It's not worth the risk. So I know parents are always like, well, I want to give my child a smartphone because I want them to learn how to manage it. In my experience, working with the kids that we work with, they just can't and you know how I know that because most of us can't handle it and so we're setting our kids up for failure right it's kind of like handing someone who struggles with alcoholism hey I just want to give you this you know a six-pack but only have a couple no you're setting that person up for failure it is not a compassionate thing to do some of your kids can control it.

25:00And you have to know that about your kids. But the kids that we usually talk about, they can't handle it. And so it's not really fair to them to do it. I will tell you that if you delay with kids of all ages, they are going to come after you hard. You know these kids are little attorneys and they're going to argue and they're going to be persistent, come after and try to wear you down. And you just have to be the parent. And inside, you have the compassionate voice and the tough voice that says, uh-uh, I'm the adult. I know what's best here. And I can take this. I can take all of that anger from you and you calling me names because I know what's best for you.

25:40And they will, I guarantee you later in life, they will thank you. Now, what if you have a child who is, and this could be any age, but say they've got a smartphone and it's just dominating your life. Here's how I wouldn't handle it. Don't say, you know what? We gave you a smartphone because we thought you'd be able to handle it, but you can't. And now your attitudes change. We're going to take it away. No, that's snotty. And that wasn't their issue. That was our issue. So I'd rather you be honest. And I'm doing this because a mom and dad emailed and they said, we've been through your screens program.

26:13You gave us the script. We used it with our son. And it was the most difficult thing we've ever done. It was a horrible two weeks afterwards, but we ended up getting our child back. And so here's kind of what it sounds like. Hey, and I may wait and do this on a weekend, not like a weeknight during the school year. So, hey, I need to apologize to you. We gave into the peer pressure and handed you a smartphone when you weren't ready for it. We put something addictive in your hands before you were ready to deal with that. And it has now changed you. It has changed your attitude. It has changed our relationship.

26:56Have you noticed that we fight all the time now? It's constant battles all over this. So we apologize for doing that. But I want you to know after this weekend or as of tonight at 10 p.m., we are taking that away for, and you could say for four weeks, for eight weeks. It might be until the next school year, whatever you want it to be. We are going to take that away from you. and our expectation is that you are going to be furious and angry and hurt and you're going to be despondent and you are going to be afraid of like how am I going to stay in touch with my friends and all of those things are legitimate and you should be mad at us because we gave this to you before you were ready.

27:40See now that's an honest statement and you're setting it up and and I what I really want is when your child lashes out at you and this is going to be probably be a process over many days and even over weeks of like, please, I promise, I promise. What if I do this? No, they can't do it. Don't give into that. And just know that if you can outlast it and you can have that courage inside in a few weeks, you will most likely get your child back. A child who is not addicted to it, who's free from it. Not always. I'm not a pie in the sky kind of like, oh it's going to work out wonderfully but in many many cases that child says thank you because i couldn't put it down every single free moment i was looking at this and i was looking to see how many likes i had and i was also comparing my life to everybody else and i was struggling with depression because i have a pretty good life but it's not as good as all those other people you have to do for them what they cannot do for themselves and so go through that okay i'm going to end it here because I try to keep my podcast pretty short.

28:48I think I fit in a lot. Did I answer every question? No, but let me wrap it up this way. Remember, the best way to inoculate your kids against all these other influences that come in from the outside, whether it's porn, whether it's vaping, whether it's alcohol, and everything else that comes against them is that connection that you have with them listen to them listen a lot validate build their confidence because a confident child who's doing things that has a positive constructive activities and has some confidence and purpose will not be as vulnerable as a child who look if you have a child who doesn't have a good relationship with mom or dad that child is very vulnerable to going into different directions so So the relationships, really, really important.

29:41If your child struggles with friendships, look up the early August episode. It was late July on 12 ways. I think 12 ways to build social skills with your kids. If we can help you in any way, let us know. We have an entire screens program. It is part of the 15 or 17 program bundle. If you need help with that or help financially, email Casey, C-A-S-C-Y at CelebrateCalm.com. I will tell you, Casey gets this. because he lived through all of this. He is one of the few people I know who is capable of controlling his screen time and he turns it off. It is a beautiful thing. So love you all. If you have questions, email.

30:23Maybe I'll do a follow-up to this based on the questions that we get. And I'll definitely be on Instagram interacting with people. If you're on TikTok, I just don't have time to, or Facebook, I don't have time to interact there. but we are on Instagram at Calm Parenting Podcast, and it's very immediate. I'm always there kind of interacting. Okay, moms and dads, this is hard stuff, and you're doing it and doing it well. Remember, this is compassionate approach to this. You're doing for your kids what they can't do for themselves. All right, love you all.