When Kids Reflexively Say No, Reject Your Ideas, Food & Faith #533

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2:49I'm telling you, I'm so excited about this episode. These are really interesting, great kids. They're going to have a great future, but before their future, they're just going to push all of your buttons and irritate you. And if you try to force them, you found this out, they will resist even more. They will dig in. I want to show you how to do this differently without giving in and also without creating more power struggles. So that is what we're going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You will find us and we've got our Black Friday sale going on at CelebrateCalm.com.

3:26All 17 programs, 35 hours of insight and strategies. I can't get to all of that in the podcast. And you listen to it on an app. You share, you let your kids listen, your parents, teachers. It's awesome. So let's go through. I've got about five different sections to go through and I want to handle these differently. I have not scripted this all out. Some podcasts I like to just have rough notes so I can go with kind of whatever comes into my head. So let's do an easy one. It won't be easy for you, but to me it's an easy one of the kids who ask why. And I'm telling you, they're not usually just being defiant.

4:04Think about this. These are kids who what they're really looking for is context. They are big picture strategic thinkers. I know that because I'm like that. I'm not really good at handling details until I understand the bigger picture. And so for a lot of these kids, what they're looking for is, hey, let me understand the meaning behind this, the purpose. I got in trouble a lot in the corporate world because I didn't know when I was young that you shouldn't just ask your boss why. And so what I learned later on is, hey boss, let me understand what your objective is. And then I would say, hey, I understand our objective, our goals.

4:48Would it be okay if I do it differently than you want me to do it as long as we accomplish the same objective? Because what I was looking for was the meaning and purpose. And I don't want you explaining things. You're not supposed to convince your kids. Sometimes I just add one sentence of context. I'll give you a quick example of this, of a kid. And you told them like all week long, hey, Saturday morning, it's all yours. Whatever you want to do. If you want to be on screens a little bit, play with your Legos. Awesome. And then Saturday morning comes and you come into the room. You're like, hey, put your Legos up, put your shoes on, we need to go.

5:26Now, your more compliant kids will just do that, which I find odd. I like kids who question. So your child's going to say, well, why? And we'll often take that personally, like, why are you defying me? I'm the authority figure in the home. You should just do exactly what I said when I tell you to do it. But isn't it true that this kid had in his brain all week long, you said Saturday morning is mine. We have no obligations. It's cool. and then all of a sudden you come in and change plans on me and tell me to get moving, isn't it natural for me to ask why? So what I would rather do in that situation is I come in and say, hey, really cool Lego project you're building.

6:05Listen, plans have changed. I like saying that because your kids aren't really good with changes in plans and transitions. And I just gave them like two seconds to adjust to, uh-oh, now I'm not going to get to build with my Legos. Hey, plans have changed. Grandma called. She's sick. We need to go help her. Could you do me a favor? Go to the kitchen, grab two cans of soup for me. Now, I don't have time to go through that whole example, but I just gave some context. I'm asking you to move right now because plans change because grandma's sick. So I'd encourage you sometimes dig into that. Ask your kids, hey, is this why you ask why, learn how their brains work.

6:48Learn how they see the world. It will eliminate so many power struggles if you will do that. Okay, number two, what about kids who reject what you want first, which your kids are going to do? Why? Because they want to own it themselves. They don't want to do it your way. We've been through that. They want to figure things out on their own. I have to back off. It's like that example I've done of the kid, the little girl who's trying to get her Taekwondo belt on and she doesn't tie it the right way. And mom or dad said, oh honey, let me show you how to do that. No, I don't want your help because she wants to figure it out.

7:28I just did that episode, episode 529 on October 22nd, where I go through a full example on this of how to back off and let your kids own things. So go listen to that. But let me keep moving on. Some of your kids are going to reject your faith or maybe your beliefs, your political views. And this is a very healthy thing. You won't like it at first because here's what they're really saying. I don't want to believe just because my mommy and daddy do or teachers or society tell me to do it. I want to wrestle with these ideas myself and then come to my own conclusion. That is a very healthy way to approach things in life.

8:14It just makes us uncomfortable because, look, so many people, how many of us are like this? You just did it because someone told you to do it, but you didn't own it. And then later in life, you went away from that. You departed from that. But if your kids wrestle with it, well, now I've looked at it from all the different angles. So I'll give you a few things not to do and a few things to do because Casey did this with us because we were raised in, in some ways, more fundamental ways. And so these were rigidly held beliefs we had had for a long time. And then along comes this kid who dares question us when we've had this life experience.

8:56I did not like that at first. But what I will tell you is it opened up a whole new world to me. And I actually began questioning things I should have questioned before. So don't react. Don't take it personally. And by all means, do not get defensive. If you get defensive about it, what your kids intuitively know is, oh, you're kind of shaky in your beliefs because only like authoritarians or dictators have to make people believe a certain way. And so they'll get more skeptical if you're defensive. Don't try to convince them that you're right. So if it's stuff with your faith, model it, live it out.

9:41They're watching everything you do. The number one thing you can do in that area is you model it. Because if they see you living this out, if you are loving your neighbor as yourself and sacrificing for others, that speaks volume. And then be curious and ask them questions, not gotcha questions. Hey, I'm curious because you're bringing up some different points. I'm curious what has led you to believe that? Where is this coming from? Not in a defensive like why would you think that? Be genuinely curious. validate the questions not their conclusions you don't have to agree with them but validate and say you know what I love about you I love that you're curious I love that you're not afraid to question things I love that you're willing to wrestle with hard ideas and come to your own conclusions now do you really like that no I'd rather you just believe what I tell you and just do what I tell you to do.

10:41But I really, I did that with Casey. It was a hard process. We did this over probably three or four years where he would just keep bringing things up. And I just settled into it and love that curiosity. And guess what? He came to it in a different way than I did, but he owns it. Give them space. Give them time. Wrestle with them. Wrestle alongside them and say, you know what? that's a great question you know what if you have to say this you know what i was raised to never question these things and that was wrong i should have and i appreciate you doing it now if they're questioning and being jerky about it you can say hey i love your curiosity i want you to question the way you're doing it yeah it's not going to work that well in life so teach them how to do it respectfully.

11:33So they're going to reject your food. And I always made the joke of like, it's not like your kids are ever going to say, mom, dad, we didn't, you know, we really didn't realize that what we were eating was so unhealthy for us. But after you lectured us 47 times, all of a sudden we realized you're right. And the food pyramid, which is actually all wrong, is correct, right? Like they're not going to say that. You can't lecture them into doing it. Again, model. Reduce the friction for it. Don't force it. You have a DNA in your home. I promise you, if you in your home, if you exercise, you take care of yourself, you eat relatively healthy meals, your kids will eventually follow it.

12:21They're just not going to do it right now because it's in their nature to push and especially if it means too much to you like your faith or food they will naturally resist that so we're working with this family their son loved to climb trees and I was like just get some good healthy protein bars put them at the bottom of the tree put them up in the tree hang them from a bear bag I don't care put them in his bedroom on a table reduce the friction for eating something healthy. Is that ideal? No. But you're not getting ideal with strong-willed kids, are you? You do what works. And so here's how you know if it worked.

13:01When you see wrappers on the ground or on the floor of your home, you know that your child, on his way or her way to doing something, grabbed one of those protein bars and ate it. Should they put the wrapper in the trash can, of course, but I'm a realist. They're kids, and I go along, and I happily pick that up, and I'm like, oh, my child ate something, ate something healthy. Relax. You don't want to create issues around food. I also wanted to say this because sometimes it feels like, and I hope this doesn't offend you, but I want you to wrestle with these things. It feels like we as parents are arrogant in some ways.

13:42It's kind of like we think that we can change their nature. And it's sometimes because our kids, these strong old kids, they make us so uncomfortable with the way they do things. And it causes you to wrestle with your own childhood. And was I raised in too rigid a way? And why wasn't I allowed to speak up? My dad shut me down. And so we're trying to change their nature as if they should just do all the time what we want and believe what we say and believe like we do. There's a little bit of arrogance there. And I think it comes from our own discomfort. So wrestle with that. Okay, now, as if this weren't hard enough, I wanna get onto the more difficult stuff.

14:22What about kids who do reflexively say no or reject your advice? How do you handle that? You know your child better than anyone. So when something shifts, like they're suddenly anxious around meals, cutting out foods, losing weight, or their personality just feels different. Something more serious may be going on. When eating disorders show up, they can completely hijack a child's brain. That moodiness, withdrawal, combative behavior isn't them. It's the illness. The good news is the earlier you get support, the easier recovery is. And that's why I want to reintroduce you to Equip. Equip is a fully virtual eating disorder treatment program that brings best-in-class evidence-based care right to your home.

15:03Every family gets an entire team, a therapist, dietitian, medical provider, and mentors who've been through this themselves. They're experts in treating all eating disorders, even lesser-known ones like ARFID. There's no wait list. It's covered by most insurance plans. And you can talk to an expert right away to get answers. So if something in your gut is telling you to look deeper, listen to it. Visit equip.health.com to get a free consultation with Equip. That's equip.health.com Okay, number four What about the kids who reject your ideas in your lectures? You know I'm not a fan of lecturing It doesn't matter if I'm a fan or not It just doesn't work with the Strong Will Kids or any kids It makes you sound weak And so here are a couple phrases that I used with Casey and the kids that we worked with and they worked really well So your child's doing something maybe they're even being a little disrespectful respectful or they're just disagreeing.

16:02They're not listening to you. So I used to say it like this. Hey, Case, what I've discovered in life is that when people do X, it typically turns out this way or the outcome is typically Y. And then I would kind of walk out of the room. So I was planting a seed and saying, hey, this is what I've discovered in life. Watch what I'm not doing. You know what? You're not going to talk to me like that. You know what? That's just going to cause you to lose all of your privileges. It wasn't going back at him in this kind of not aggressive, you know, there's times where you can just say like, hey, that's just not going to work in my home.

16:38Hey, case, not tonight, not going to happen. And I can be more forceful. But there are also times where I just say, so here's, because I don't have this scripted. So forgive me for this, for the pauses, but I'm really trying to get back, get inside my head and heart at those moments, That's what was happening. I was never allowed to question my dad. And I always thought that kids are supposed to be immediately obedient and just listen to you. And then why is this kid? And look, I'm a realist. Sometimes he's got like this snotty little mouth and this little attitude and the way they squinch up their face at you.

17:15And it's like, like it's hard. And so you're going to wrestle with this. and so I got really good at this about not taking it personally and about pausing, pausing just for five seconds and going through all these things in my head like I really don't like this. I really want to do X to my child and then I'd reset myself and say hey because I wanted to be a giver of wisdom instead of being like the enforcer of rules, instead of being chief disciplinarian in my home who walks around as kind of petty, getting irritated by everybody. No, I become the giver of wisdom. And that really helped me as a guy because that was my goal, was to impart the wisdom and all the life lessons I'd learned so that my son didn't struggle with the same things that I did.

18:09So when I would say, hey, here's something I've discovered in life, that when you talk to someone like that, they tend not to do things for you later. And then I'd walk away and let him think about that without me standing over him saying so what do you think about that truth bomb that I just laid on you I would at times when he was more when he's a little bit older say He would tell me something and i'd want to jump right on lecture 43b about the appropriate way to make good friends and choose good social All that So i'd say case. I appreciate you sharing that. Listen, i've got some ideas about that I need to go do something in the garage, fix dinner.

18:45If you want to come get me later, I'd love to share my ideas with you. See, I'm not dumping my anxiety and my lecture and my ideas. I'm not forcing my... I went to the podcast called I'm Not Forcing My Food or My Ideas on You. I'm willing to allow you to come to me. Now, here's the hard part. They're probably, if they do come to you, and they may not, and that's fine because you may need to rebuild some trust, they may come later and say, okay, what were your stupid ideas? Don't take it personally. They've opened up their heart, and they're willing to listen. You're planting seeds. You're giving them space to process and own it themselves.

19:26You are not trying to convince. Stop that, moms and dads. And you don't need to convince them. You want them to come to these things on their own. So practice those two things. Number five, this is the reflexive no. And I will tell you, I use that. If Mrs. Calm comes, she says, oh, there's this new thing that's happening on Friday night. Do you want to do that? Nope. I don't even listen to the full explanation of what it is. And do you know what it is? It is anxiety over new things. I have a natural antipathy toward new things because I like my routine. I like things being in my control and when you ask me do you want to do something new do you want to do something adventurous and I do adventurous stuff in the mountains all the time but my first instinct when Casey says dad new mountain peak new hike I want to do do you want to do that I'm like nope way too much exposure way too high no and then after some time I think about it and I go through my little process and then I do it.

20:34But please understand that that's what's happening. I actually just got this email this morning from a mom who said, hey, we took advantage of Black Friday sale. We downloaded all the programs. I stayed up. I downloaded them at 10 o 'clock at night and I was up till three in the morning because I was just devouring this. And she said, what I realized at first was I have completely misunderstood my strong-willed child because I I am not like him. And she said the light bulb went off and I realized so many of these issues are my own. And I didn't take it as blame or guilt. I just thought, oh, now I can relax knowing that if I put my energy into changing myself, that so many of these power struggles will go away.

21:21And it was a burden that was lifted. It was really cool how she phrased this. It lifted a burden thinking that there was something wrong with my son. and I know there's nothing wrong with me. We just need to view things and handle them differently. I'm like, that is so beautiful. That's what I want more than anything else is for you to understand your kids inside and out and understand why you do certain things because there's no blame or guilt. We're just flawed people figuring it out. So the other thing that's happening, by the way, kudos to you, mom, who did that and get some sleep next time.

21:53So reflexive no, they're buying time because they're trying to decide. You're going to hate this. They're trying to decide. Let's say your child is doing something and you say, hey, you need to stop doing that. And there's a reflexive no, or they just keep doing it. They're buying time to decide if they want to continue doing what they're doing or stop and listen to you. And they're weighing the risk reward. Is the consequence worth it? They will often ask you, hey, if I don't listen to you and I don't stop, what's the consequence? They're weighing it. And they're like, hey, you know what? This means so much to me.

22:35I'm having so much joy and so much meaning and satisfaction and pleasure out of doing this thing. I'm okay with you doing X and Y to me later. And we've been through this. They choose the harsh consequence because they don't really care that much about losing stuff. they care about losing their autonomy and so when you realize that and recognize that that it's not just coming it's not like it's not just they're not listening to me they're coming against my authority no there's a different way of doing this that's happening and so when you realize that it takes you out of all these power struggles so expect resistance with these kids I know parents hate when I say that.

23:24Well, I should expect them to just listen to me. Fine, do that. But the previous 485 times, they didn't. So when I work with men, I'm like, come on. It's like Shawshank, why are you being so obtuse here? It's like you're trying to fight your child's nature, right? You've been trying this like, well, my way or highway approach will work. No, it's not. It hasn't worked in the last four or 14 years. So I expect the resistance. Why? Because that's how they're made. It's not an awful thing. I don't take it personally. It's not a threat to my authority, unless you're weak in your authority. We're leaders.

24:03Authority is about being a leader, not being a dictator. Sorry for that. Diversions there. And so I give instructions and I say, case. Here's what I expect right now. Let me know if you need some help. And then I walk away and give space and I expect what we call initial bluster. That's dumb. I don't want to do that. How many of you have found this with a strong willed child? If you give them an instruction and then you give it a couple of minutes and you walk away and you're not standing over them, they will end up doing it because you're not standing over them. It's when you stand over them with your arms folded like I'm going to stand here until you do what I say, young lady.

24:45Good. You're going to be standing there for like three days because she will outlast you and that's your issue. Stop. Stop being, you know, we always talk about our kids being strong-willed and so challenging. We are too. We're just as difficult sometimes. Well, but this isn't the way it's supposed to be. I don't care. It's the way that it is. I deal with reality. I work with their nature. And so what? If you tell them to do something, you walk away. And a couple minutes later, they get up and they do what you said. And they don't have a happy heart. Who cares? They did what you said. And look, I can do the tough approach.

25:22I've done this on podcasts. If they don't end up doing it, it's just next time they come and say, Mom, Dad, can you give me this? Can you take me here? Nah, it's just not the way it works. You can't treat me with disrespect and then expect me to turn around and take you and buy you things. That's not how life works. See, there's no like resentment like, you know what? You never listened to me. I'm not going to do anything. No, I'm just letting them know from the previous one. Hey, what I've discovered in life is when you're not helpful to other people, they tend not to be helpful to you. That's a basic life principle.

25:56That's what I'm laying down. And so I'm the dorkiest human alive. I need to keep these scripted. So and let me end kind of with this. It is that ownership principle we talk about. I want to give kids ownership of their choices within my boundaries. And what I'm relinquishing is not control over whether it gets done or not. It's over how it gets done. Hey, here's my objective. Here's what I'm looking for, son or daughter. I don't care how you do it. You can do it in a weird way. You can sweep the floor with the broom behind your back and between your legs. You can do it blindfolded. I don't care.

26:37I'm giving you some space to do things and do them differently than I would do them as long as we accomplish the same task. And then when you get it done, even though it's probably done half-heartedly, because I'm a realist, and it's not done the way that I would have done it, I'm going to give you a fist bump and say, nice job. Okay, we covered a lot of ground in that. Maybe, you know what I would encourage you to do? Let your kids listen to this episode and ask them, is that what's going on in your brain when I ask you to do something? So what could I begin doing differently? And what could you begin doing differently?

27:16So we're not fighting all the time and getting into a constant tug of war over taking things away. Let them listen. if you download our programs from that Black Friday sale let your kids listen they have so much insight and they need to understand themselves that they're not just disrespectful defiant kids who just say no if you are like this I guarantee you have grown up thinking maybe that something was wrong with you or that you were the bad kid or the black sheep of the family I want your kids to know there's nothing wrong with them they just approach the world in different ways, and this is empowering to them.

27:53Okay, love you all. Respect you so much for working so hard at this. If you need any help, reach out to Casey, C-A-S-E-Y at celebratecualm.com. He will not tell you no at first. Why? Because you're not his mom or dad. All right, love you all. Bye-bye.