When PDA Kids Resist | What My Son Taught Me About Anxiety #563

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1:09So does your child need help with a particular subject in school? I encourage you to check out IXL.com slash Kirk. Do you have a child who is bored and wants to work ahead? IXL gives you that flexibility. IXL is an online learning program that can be used by any student from K to 12. What I personally like about IXL is that your child can explore any topic in any grade level. And no matter your child's learning style or knowledge level, IXL has video tutorials and learning games to guide your child in the way they learn best while meeting them at their level. So whether your child needs extra help with a class or wants to work ahead, IXL provides the positive feedback our kids crave.

1:55Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now. Calm Parenting Podcast listeners get an exclusive 20 % off an IXL membership when you sign up today at IXL.com slash Kirk. Visit IXL.com slash Kirk to get the most effective learning program at the best price. I remember it like it was yesterday. The kindergarten child crying on the steps of Cromwell Valley Elementary School, sobbing and wheezing for the first three days of that school year, afraid to go into that class. I remember that second grader being sent to the office to see Principal Kratzner after the teacher said, one more trip to the office and you'll be kicked out of school.

2:36More sobbing and wheezing. I remember that middle school boy in eighth grade missing over 30 days of school and making up stories to get out of class, faking like he didn't feel well, and not eating dinner to lay the groundwork for not going to school the next day. I mean, it wasn't unusual since his stomach was frequently upset and his nervous system was on high alert, so he was an extremely picky eater. I remember that boy in that ragged hoodie with the strained voice the next morning claiming that his stomach was upset and he was registering the sympathetic eyes of his mother as he begged to stay home from school.

3:14I remember that boy feeling so awkward and out of place, but learning to become an expert chameleon, to navigate the high school social scene, never really rejected, but never really fitting in. Such great masking skills. I remember that same boy skipping his high school and college graduation ceremonies. Later, he would lie to his bosses at different jobs to get out of various demanding assignments, team-building days with colleagues, or flights on an airplane. Sometimes these were outrageous lies that made him feel ashamed for his dishonesty. But integrity was a distance, second to a nervous system on high alert, facing panic attacks.

3:56So lie it was. That boy masked his way through two decades in the corporate world eating a diet that soothed his perpetually upset stomach. That boy with PDA was me. And 30 years later, our son shared the same burnout experience in second and eighth grade just like I did. Only back then, we didn't know what to call it. When I first heard the term pathological demand avoidance, I was unsurprisingly skeptical. You know, we as PDA people seem to have an insatiable need to say no and reject what others want first before we can own it ourselves. I thought it sounded like another fanciful diagnosis using big scary words to justify word labeling and pathologize what I consider fairly normal behavior.

4:45And for the past 10 years, I've researched it assiduously, only later coming to the conclusion after taking many assessments and talking to various psychiatrists that my life has been strewn with the fallout of PDA, but also proven to be an advantage for me. And as it turns out, our son Casey also has most of the characteristics of PDA, which manifested throughout his childhood and caused burnout. That was a wake up call for us. Somehow or another, we kind of backed our way into providing just the right balance of saying no to arbitrary demands and giving him tools to help him lead a happy and successful life.

5:24So this is very personal to us. We're not outsiders. We've lived this. We had 1 ,500 kids in our home over the course of a decade. And while all of them were strong-willed in different ways and had a mix of ADD, ADHD, ODD, OCD, SBD, SBD, anxiety, and more, we usually worked with the most challenging cases. So I'd estimate at least half of the kids possess the traits associated with PDA. So let's just establish a few things first. Kids with PDA are not rebellious, defiant, lazy, selfish kids who just need tough discipline or more consequences. They're not these brash kids spouting off, you know what, I'm going to do whatever I want to do.

6:04You can't make me. Yeah, sometimes those words come out and they lash out when they get overwhelmed and anxious. but that's not what's driving them internally. And if you dig down deep, what you'll discover is that they are not actually demand avoidant. No, they don't avoid demands. They reject external demands that are largely arbitrary and unnecessary. And they often place tremendous demands on themselves internally. And that's why you'll see explosive reactions and perfectionism when their projects don't turn out perfectly. And I'm going to release an episode shortly that's called PDA Kids Are Not Demand Avoidant.

6:44It's going to be on the PDA Parent Podcast. So subscribe to that. Look that up. It'll really help you out. These are kids with big hearts, very sensitive hearts. They're just very misunderstood. This is hard stuff, moms and dads. No one prepared you to have a child with PDA. It can be incredibly isolating when everyone, including your own family, is judging you, blaming you, and sometimes even rejecting your child. That happened to us. You can be heartbroken for and exhausted by your child with PDA. So, this is Kirk Martin. Many of you know I'm the host of the Calm Parenting Podcast and now the PDA Parent Podcast as well.

7:27Now, I'm dropping this episode into our regular Calm Parenting podcast feed since there is overlap, but we already have additional episodes up on the PDA Parent Podcast platform. Hard to say. So go to CelebrateCalm.com, click on the PDA tab for more, and you can subscribe so you don't miss any episodes. So I think you'll get some important lessons out of this story and how a mom applied this with her daughter with PDA. So last summer, PDA's son took his PDA dad on a father-son hiking trip because he knows I won't always be able to keep up with him on these long, hard hikes. It was an incredibly sweet and thoughtful gesture.

8:15By the way, you're going to notice that with your kids as well. Like they can say no a lot and they can be really challenging at times. But inside, they're really thoughtful humans. So I have a lot of anxiety over trying new things. And I especially have a fear of heights. And as I'm typing this, I can feel my hands getting a little sweaty. So look, there's that physiological and nervous system response in action while I'm safely in my home. Well, there's this hike that Casey said was spectacular. Only there were places with steep drop-offs and overhangs where if you fell, you would either get seriously injured or die.

8:55And you had to hang on to ropes and chains to navigate these scary parts. So I, of course, made the mistake the night before of watching videos of it, which further reinforced my fear. And so I began asking lots of questions. And Casey could hear the anxiety in my voice. And it's so fascinating how roles have reversed some. At first, when he was a kid, we were unwittingly feeding his anxiety as a little kid. And he missed out on things until we learned how to lead him through his anxiety and discomfort. Now at times, he's the one leading me. So his response to me is always very concise. Dad, I've researched it extensively.

9:39I know you can do this. Just let me know what time you want to start. See, his confidence is reassuring, not dismissive. And he suddenly gave me a measure of control over the start time since I prefer starting earlier. Kind of cool how he did that. And I noticed it at the time and I was kind of impressed. like, well done, son, you've been listening all these years. So the next day we began the hike and I'm quiet. And whenever I'm about to fly or do a hard hike or face my anxiety, I get quiet. See if that happens with your kids. What happens is we are internalizing this. We are working through it in our heads and hearts.

10:23We are wrestling inside and coming to terms with it. You don't have to break this silence. and it's better if you don't. That's why sometimes in the morning before school, it's better to just say nothing and let your child sit there with that hoodie over their head, processing their conflicting emotions inside. They're doing the work. And as a little side note, they're actually doing very demanding work inside. And that's something we often miss when claiming their demand avoidant. So we get to the point much earlier than I expected when I started seeing chains attached to the rock face along my left with a drop-off to the right.

11:08Now here's the thing. At this point, the trail was stable with good footing. There were some bushes off to the right. So I actually didn't think chains were necessary right there. But the mere sight of the chains told me inside, oh, this must be dangerous because there are chains there. So you should be nervous. And it worked. My palms got sweaty and my heart raced a bit unnecessarily. Look, if there had not been chains there, I would have been just fine. So about a quarter mile ahead, it got very narrow and rocky with uneven footing. For some reason, whether it was panic or smart intuition, probably both.

11:52I started moving very quickly. I was gripping that chain to my left and flying up the side of that mountain without any regard to Casey. It was a little counterintuitive for me because usually when you're nervous you go really slowly and then you overthink and that's not good and you get kind of paralyzed by that. So I'm passing people which is tricky because there's no room to pass but I just moved on through and about 20 minutes later I realized I had left Casey in the dust which is unusual. But here's why I wanted to do that part alone. And this is really important for you with your PDA kids.

12:28The reason that I sped up and created space away from Casey is I didn't want to hear him being anxious about my anxiety, asking, you doing okay, dad? See, that makes it worse. I already know I am struggling. I don't want to know or hear that another person is also 100 % focused on my anxiety. And that sweet voice that we use as parents is also like those early chains. It triggers something that says, oh, you should be anxious. And that makes it worse. No one likes to be watched when they're struggling. It's too much attention. It sometimes sounds like pity. And that's infuriating because now I would be internalizing and your child is internalizing.

13:21I already think I'm weak and not as good as others for being afraid when other people aren't. And now my mom and dad are just reinforcing even more how weak and scared I am. Does that make sense? So I got to a point where the trail was wide and safe and I waited for Casey. Guess what? He had been more nervous than I was. Why? Because usually when we're doing difficult climbs, his energy is focused on helping me. And I had taught him from a young age that when you're anxious, focus on helping someone else. But this time he was simply focused on himself. So we talked about that idea of anxiety transference, and it happens all the time.

14:08That's why I hit so much on us as parents, we as parents, learning to control our own anxiety. So we still had some places to climb where we literally hung out over a drop-off, holding on two chains. But by this time, we were feeling more confident. And after we made it past that, the feeling of satisfaction in facing our anxiety and our fear was euphoric. And the views were stunning, otherworldly. You know what we figured out? We were capable. We did it. It wasn't nearly as scary as the videos in my imagination had made it out to be. That's a huge lesson in life for us and our kids. Our minds usually project things to be way worse than they actually are.

14:53so when we give our kids tools to overcome some of these challenges, we're building muscle memory and experiences that say, hey, remember when you were so anxious about doing X, but it wasn't as bad as you thought, and you were so proud of yourself for doing it. Now, here's the balance we intend to bring to our approach with PDA Kids. We made it to this cool mountain hut. There was still another thousand feet of steep climbing ahead through loose rock to get to the official top of the mountain. But I was done mentally and emotionally by then. I had pushed and I had done more than I ever had. And so it was time to stop and honor, to listen to my body and what it was saying and respect that.

15:41No need for more pushing. So I waited for Casey while he climbed to the peak and came back down. We had amazing lunch sitting in the sun looking at this ancient glacier. It was one of the highlights of our, not just of the trip, but of our life together. You know why? Because there's an intense bond that happens when we work together, because there was this intense experience that ironically had built upon decades of handling these situations from the time Casey was three until his present age of 33. And what I really intend to show you through our PDA program and podcast is how to do to lead your kids through their discomfort and anxiety, not push them, lead them safely, compassionately through their discomfort so they can experience that same sense of accomplishment and pride and confidence knowing I'm capable of this.

16:38We also want to help you recognize when it's enough, when it's time to sit at the proverbial hut in the sun and recharge. So a mom emailed last night and said, I bought your PDA program downloads. I stayed up till 2 a.m. Drinking in all these new ideas and felt like you were describing my daughter. The next day, I had an opportunity to use what I've learned so far. Now, here's the thing. Those opportunities are rarely far away for us as moms and dads with these kids. So she said, our daughter was, as usual, resisting going to this after-school equine camp I know she gets a lot out of. I caught myself before using that really sweet tone she rolls her eyes at and thought, well, instead of accommodating her, how can I lead her?

17:32How can I give her tools? And she said that was a game changer because instead of feeling helpless and grasping at straws, I felt like I had some influence just by changing myself. This mom said, in a way, I felt like I was understanding my daughter on a deeper level because I was anxious and nervous trying something new as well. I was leading her as she stepped out of her comfort zone. We got there, and instead of going in with her, I dropped her off because you said our kids will often do more grown-up things on their own without being watched. She seemed to like that. Now, I kept waiting in the car for her to run out crying and then yelling at me for making her come because that's been our experience.

18:25I tried to read my book, but I just kept repeating the same sentences over and over again. This is hard. And she said, I could feel my nervous system on high alert. and then it slowly dawned on me that she had done it and I had done it and an hour later she came walking to the car as if it had been a breeze. I wanted so badly to praise her and ask her how it was but I didn't put that pressure on her. Inside I was smiling and after a while she finally said that was really fun. I know we may have the same battle a week from now, but that was worth it. On the way home, I made an uncharacteristic stop on a school night at Steak and Shake, and we got fries and a milkshake because I thought this was worthy of a small celebration.

19:19All I said was, we both had done something hard tonight, and I was proud of us. and it felt like those bonding moments that you'd had with your son. Now I have hope and some tools to help us both and then she ended it with like now on to the next battle because that's how it is oftentimes. You know mom that wrote that and dad's out there I'm so proud of you because this is really hard but that is how you lead your child through discomfort and now you both have that sense of accomplishment and pride and confidence knowing I'm capable of this. That's why we named that new program Confident Parents, Confident Kids.

19:59I encourage you check it out. It's at celebratecalm.com on the PDA tab. Look thanks for working so hard at this moms and dads. Let's work on making some of these small shifts this week and I bet you'll see better results with with your PDA kids and with all of your kids because this is just human nature. All right. Love you all. Bye-bye.