When Time-Outs, Behavior Charts & Taking Away Screens Don’t Work, Try This… #584

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2:20All the things that you're supposed to do, Right? Like timeouts for toddlers, behavior charts for little kids, taking away screens or driver's license or a phone with your teenager. None of the traditional approaches will work with a strong-willed child. You're going to be frustrated by that and feel guilty and you're going to be judged by other people. And that's why I always encourage you, if you have a strong-willed child, do what works for your family. Don't worry about what everybody else does because your family life is going to look very, very different than other people. So I want to give you some tools to do it differently, to do things that actually work from toddlers all the way through the teen years.

3:04So that is what we're going to discuss on today's episode of the Calm Parenting Podcast. So welcome. This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm. You can find us at CelebrateCalm.com. So I want to give a shout out to a couple that kind of inspired this podcast. is Ben and Elizabeth, and they've got two strong-willed kids. And between the kids, there are all kinds of diagnoses from ADHD, sensory processing disorder, ASD, PDA, not to mention many others like our son had. And so what they wrote was like, we have always felt like failures. And we're judged by our family because we've been trying all the things we're supposed to, and yet none of it works.

3:42And we've sent thousands of dollars on therapy. and Elizabeth said, I finally convinced Ben to take advantage of your winter sale because it's like we already spent thousands. Like your program's like relatively inexpensive. Let's give it a try. And so they said as they began listening, Elizabeth said, I started to cry because I realized this tremendous weight I have been bearing thinking I'm doing something wrong, that we're bad parents and we've kind of felt helpless to help these kids. And now we get to listen and we have different ideas and a different approach actually work. And so I applaud all the parents out there.

4:17This is hard, hard work. And you're going to be judged by other people. So let's go through a few points here. Look, consequences. Consequences work with most kids, but they tend not to work that well with strong-willed kids. And it's not that I'm against consequences. You have to give consequences. I'm not against them. I'm against relying on consequences as an effective tool to change a child's behavior because so many of you will say like well we're consistent and we follow through right because that's how you get judged all your friends and family like you know you just you know if you were consistent and followed through your kids would behave and you're like really I'd never thought about that but you've done that for years and we know why that is because many of our strong-willed kids, they don't care about losing things.

5:11They just don't want to lose their autonomy, their independence. They want to make choices. They want to learn the hard way, touch the hot stove. And we know the consequences are limited because they usually address the outward behavior, but we have to go the extra step to get to the root of the behavior and actually show our kids a different way to handle situations. Look, your kids already know what they are doing is wrong. That's why they lie because they were impulsive, did something wrong, and now they know they're going to get in trouble and get a consequence and lose something, so they lie.

5:52And your younger kids also, they're very impulsive. They're not going to put it through logically in the moment of like, I know mom and dad said X would happen. Let's think this through it. That just tends not to work. So let's go through some things for toddlers. And everybody's going to say like, oh, just give them a timeout. And we tend to fall into this trap with toddlers of no, stop, cut it out. No, no, no, no, no, no. And the relatives are going to tell you all the things that you're doing wrong. But, but look, you're already kids already know what they did was wrong and timeouts. Good luck getting a really intense, strong, physical, active kid to just sit still and think about your actions.

6:35It won't work. And one of my favorite stories, which is funny for me, but not for the parent, they were like, well, I kept putting my son in timeout and in a corner, and eventually he just started peeing in the corner. I was like, yeah, that's a smart kid. That's just what's going to happen So instead of those things If I have younger kids Here are a few principles Whenever you say no to something inappropriate Because you have to say no, right? You can't do that Always say yes to something appropriate I want your energy focused on what your kids can do See, it's one of those common things of like Well, my child's running into the street Or they're doing that and all we ever say, no, you can't do that.

7:22Stop, don't do that. You'll get hurt. Well, they don't put that together. So if I'm taking my child, if we're walking down the street or we're going to a store, I focus their brains on, hey, secret mission. Don't tell anyone. Here's your job right now. Because I get the brain focused on what I want them to actually do. And then when they do that, I give a lot of intensity to them making good choices because look, I know it's hard, but we fall into this trap. Hey, no, stop. Take that out of your mouth. Don't touch your sister. Don't do that. Don't do this. And then all of our energy goes to no, no, no.

7:59What are you going to do? Sit and time out. Instead, I want to set them up for success. I know it's exhausting, but you're the one who chose to have kids. It's just going to be exhausting. And so that's why I want you to simplify your life when your kids are little and lower your expectations of yourself and your kids. It's exhausting, but it's a lot less exhausting than constantly saying no and having meltdowns and tantrums. So I'm doing a lot of giving missions. Even when I say no to a child of like, let me just demonstrate, child's jumping on the sofa. I'm not coming in kind of that modern parent.

8:34Oh, buddy, you know what? We don't jump on the sofa. There are springs in the sofa. And if you jump, you will break the sofa. I don't like that tone. It sounds condescending and weak. And I don't like saying we don't jump on the sofa. I know this is a big deal for a lot of you. We don't do that here. You know what your stronghold child is thinking? Well, we may not, but I do. If you're not jumping on the sofa, there's no we need it. You also don't have to come in. You know how many times do I have to tell you not to jump on the sofa? You're a disrespectful, disobedient little kid. I don't have to go to either of those.

9:07I can just go in the room and say, hey, jumping on the sofa, not happening in my home. See, I like that. That's short and sweet. That's just saying, hey, this doesn't happen. I'm setting a clear expectation and boundary, even matter of fact tone. Now watch where the energy goes. But I love your energy. Do I really love their energy? No, they're exhausting. But I say it anyway. Hey, I love your energy. I could really use your help. Hey, could you move some mulch for me in the backyard? You want to help me stir the soup? Want to help me walk the dog? See, I'm giving, instead of just saying no, stop it, I'm giving them something to do.

9:40You know, for younger kids, we love rewind and replay where I can say instead of like, you know what? We, you know, we don't treat our siblings like that here. No, I just say, hey, that's not going to work here. So let's do rewind and replay. And what they do is they walk backwards out of the room and then you can show them how to come into a room and handle the situation with their sibling or with you in a different way. But discipline means to teach and to show them a different way to do it. So here's another one. Think about this. If you've got a three, four, five, six, seven-year-old child, getting them to sit still in preschool, in pre-K, is going to be hard.

10:22And you're going to get calls from the school about your child getting up and walking around class and not following directions all the time. Here's what I want you to know. Your child is not doing anything wrong in that situation. Now, I didn't say, right, like bludgeoning other children, causing fires. That would be wrong. But just struggling to sit still and follow directions as a little kid, they're not doing anything wrong. That's called being a child. An impulsive child is not doing anything wrong. Now, what they did may have been wrong, but being impulsive is what kids are supposed to do.

11:00and the teacher isn't doing anything wrong by also saying, hey, I've got to put them on red on the behavior chart. It's just that the behavior chart isn't going to work. And what I want you to know is you are battling arbitrary demands in an arbitrary environment for a child that age. There's nothing in nature that says a four or five, six, seven-year-old child should be able to sit for long periods of time. and their heads should be up in the clouds and they should be curious and exploring, not listening to other adults talking. They're not supposed to. So if your child is struggling like that, your child isn't doing anything wrong.

11:44The teacher's not doing anything wrong. It just is. And it's hard because those are arbitrary demands. And I really want to encourage you as parents to really sort these things out in their childhood. I've said this before, make a list, get a piece of paper out, draw a line down the middle, left side of the page. Here are all the qualities and behaviors that are necessary for success in school. On the right-hand side, here are all the traits and skills necessary to be successful in life. They don't always match up. And many of your strong-willed kids are just going to struggle in school because so much of what is asked of them, what do we reward them for?

12:25Oh, you followed directions. You are so compliant and so easy. We all like easy people and easy kids, but your kids are not made that way. And they tend to be the ones who are curious and trying different things and they get into things and they're leaders. But those qualities are not always recognized or appreciated. And I'm not talking about letting kids just run all over the classroom, do whatever they want. It's not what I'm talking about. But I don't want to fight their very nature just to get them to fit into an arbitrary environment because that can literally destroy their confidence. And we don't want that.

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16:45Unless you're kind of desperate and you have to make the money. But for the most part, we seek out, we watch TV shows, Netflix series, read books about things we're interested in. So your child being bored in class, there's nothing wrong with him. And I totally get why a teacher would maybe put your child on that behavior chart. It's just that it doesn't work. So what do I do for those kids? Remember, we want to give kids tools to succeed. And so maybe with a younger child and it's doing some early math, he's just bored. You send in a worksheet because you can't expect the teacher to do everything, right?

17:19They already have like 20 kids in class that are difficult. And so you send in a worksheet and the teacher says, hey, everybody else, you're doing like a addition with double digits, but you can't do triple digits. And now you just made it a challenge. You made the child feel like, oh, you're a little bit, you can do something different than the other kids. And it's a challenge and a mission that stimulates their brain. You can have them do all kinds of missions. Oh, I could really use your help. Could you take that blue backpack in the back of the class to Ms. Henderson next door? Well, that meets some sensory needs because they're carrying a heavy backpack.

17:53They're getting to move for about 45 seconds, which is really nice for them. And then also sometimes when you do heavy work, sweeping is really good for this. Moving the larger muscle groups, it actually helps with fine motor skills. So we're giving tools all the time. Hey, I could really use your help. Could you refill my water bottle for me? I love, say with transitions. Here's a good one. Most of your kids struggle with transitions. So when they come in from recess or the cafeteria, many of your kids are going to be kind of very scattered because in the cafeteria, often it's very, very loud and chaotic.

18:27And maybe your kids struggle with their peers. So they're sitting alone. They feel kind of bad at playground. Many of your kids are not very athletic, or even if they are, they're going to change the rules of the game, cheat, quit. They're going to butt in line. And it's not always a great thing for them. So coming back into class can be hard. So here's a tool I use. I pull the child aside and say, hey, Evan, I could really use your help because our Kids love feeling like adults. They like helping other people, just not you. And so here's what I need to do. Picture these three things in your brain.

18:57One water bottle, three paper towels, the front row of desks in my classroom. I like visuals because sometimes when you paint a visual for kids, ADHD kind of kids, they remember the picture more than they remember words because words often get jumbled in their brain. So the child knows what I want him to do. When Evan comes back in, I want him to clean the front row of desk in my classroom. I was very, very specific. one water bottle three paper towels not the whole roll and just the front row and when that child comes in he's got a mission see it's not watch it's not like hey when you come back into my class you need to sit still and be on your best behavior because your strong well child's like yeah i have been on my best behavior it's just not that all hell is that awesome and so instead of telling like well when you come in no running around no no fighting with other kids no i gave him a mission to do.

19:46And so when he's spraying those desks off, watch what he's doing. Remember wax on, wax off from Karate Kid. You're moving across the midline of the body. You're getting some sensory pressure pushing down on those desks. And you're also getting a sense of accomplishment because seeing a desk go from being dirty to clean. How many of you, you'd love that. And it gives you a sense of feeling in control of something. See, those are tools we give kids. Now let's talk about adopted kids. Look, I have no other way to say this, except if you have a child who is adopted, I really want you to know this.

20:24Well, one, thank you, thank you, because I know that you did this out of love. And in many cases, you wanted to rescue a child and you really wanted to help this child. And so many parents say, well, we're having these behavior issues and ones you're likely going to have as kids who steal, they tend to steal and they lie a lot. And they'll manipulate at times, especially if they were in foster care or something else for a while, they kind of learn that survival instinct and they're going to struggle. And so many parents say, well, we adopted him or we adopted her at birth. The truth is that probably nine months when they were in the birth mother's womb, there was probably stress because by nature, if you're giving your child up for adoption, most likely you're going through some kind of stressful circumstance, right?

21:13That just makes sense. And so your kids internalize all of that. And no matter whether you got them from day one and you're the most loving parents, your kids are going to struggle with some things. And I want you to know that. It's not a fear-based thing, but so many parents like, well, we just love them so much. And they're so, it's hard. It's just going to be harder. And many of your kids who have attachment issues, watch this, they're going to seek and need intensity because they associate intensity with connection. Because see, the worst thing in life is not, say with your spouse, and I'm not talking about abuse, but if you argue and fight with someone, well at least you care enough to fight with them for something but you know what's even worse is when you don't even care enough to fight and you're just disinterested so what happens with many of our kids and this isn't just adopted kids but they associate intensity with connection because if they did something wrong when they were little what they learned is oh the adult in charge kind of got mad, put down their phone, came up with me, and I got their full-on intensity.

22:25You will not do that. What were you thinking? Well, see, they don't distinguish between positive intensity and negative intensity. It just means I feel some connection there. So you're really, really, really going to have to work on giving them positive intensity proactively and being able to stimulate their brains in that way so that they're drawn more to doing the positive things, the negative. And here's the point within this podcast. You're not doing anything wrong as parents, but it just won't always work. And love often isn't enough. I know that hurts to say and for you to hear, but you're going to have to give them tools.

23:08and remember we just talked about giving kids tools, creating successes, practice, making small wins. I can't do it right here but we did this example before in one of the podcasts of a girl who was just used, she's just in the habit, she took things again and again from her mother and so we put out, made this little treasure box that every time she felt that compulsion to take something, she had something appropriate to take and every time she went to the little treasure box to take something instead of stealing something from her sister or mom then it was like oh that was awesome because you felt compelled you felt that desire to come and take something and instead of doing something inappropriate oh you chose out of that good but good job and see that intensity is really important so i want to create successes and i want to affirm every single time they make progress not perfection and by the way with these kids also sensory issues getting involved in martial arts rock climbing swimming can be extremely effective but here's and let's get to teens but here's the thing what doesn't work with our kids right we've talked about this before you push them they resist more if you try to hurry a strong-willed child they tend to go more slowly overt praise of these kids you've heard me say this when i praise a strong-willed child i don't say oh my gosh you did you made such a good choice i'm so proud of you because it doesn't square with how they feel inside and it creates too much pressure because inside they're thinking wait I didn't make a good choice you're going to expect me to do that again so when I pray strong well kids saw that hey fist bump hey nice job like how you handled that hey that shows me you're growing up so when we get to the teen and tween years just look there's nothing wrong with taking away the phone the screens the driver's license sometimes you have to do that but that doesn't mean that it's going to motivate them to change their behavior.

25:03And so that's why we have to go beyond external motivation to internal motivation. And if you have a teen or tween who is struggling, I'd encourage you with this. Let's try to get them doing one constructive activity, just one, preferably outside the home, helping another adult, helping little kids, helping animals, because your kids tend to be better with little kids, animals, and sometimes older people. And what I want them to do, even if you have to pay a neighbor or an elderly neighbor to approach your child and say, hey, I could really use some help at my house. Could you come down for 30 minutes on Wednesday afternoon after school and I'll pay you 10 bucks?

25:46You don't have to pay them money because over time, it's not the money. They will love feeling helpful. You know what they're feeling? I have something to give someone else. Take a tween or teen their whole life who has felt different. Never felt like I matched up with my peers or my siblings. I've always felt like I'm swimming upstream in life. I don't like school. I'm supposed to be really smart, but I don't get good grades because I'm not really motivated by this. Well, see, now I have something to give. Doing service projects. Having a greater responsibility. And I'm not talking about doing chores or doing their schoolwork.

26:25that's a little that's expected stuff of kids but these are kids who are comfortable in the adult world and i'd encourage you start thinking about how could i actually give them greater responsibility expect more of them when teens or tweens start giving out to other people guess what other people start saying hey you're really good at that hey have you considered going to college for this hey i appreciate you helping me uh get some technology stuff done in my home have you ever thought about going into IT. And when someone else mentions that or praises them, they tend to hear it a lot differently than they do coming from their parents.

27:01So I want to spark that internal motivation. So let's wrap it up this way. Moms and dads, think about that Ben and Elizabeth. Have you been there before where you just feel like failures at times and judged by other people? you're not a bad parent you're a really good parent it's just that what you've been taught won't always work with the strong-willed kids you're not necessarily doing anything wrong by taking stuff away or putting a toddler in time out it's just that that isn't enough it won't work I want you I encourage you to spend your time find out what motivates your kids be a detective Get in there and find out, oh, they are driven by their independence, doing adult-type jobs, having missions, and you create successes.

27:51That tends to work a whole lot better than what we're doing right now. So thank you for being a great parent. Thanks for listening to the podcast and sharing it. Thanks for working so hard on your own anxiety and control issues and working with these kids. If we can help you in any way, let us know. I do encourage you if you have our programs or get them let your kids listen to them and use it as a discussion let them listen to the podcast hey listen to this what do you think about that our kids are never short of their own opinions opinions on things and they'll let you know but the better the more helpful thing is that you have good discussions about what does motivate them and oftentimes it is a kid who is empowered who says mom dad I know what you want me to do but I'm not motivated like my sister or like you are here's what does motivate me and you let your kids listen and they start to say that's how my brain is made and now they don't feel like right like you sometimes feel like oh we don't know what we're doing as parents we feel like failure so do your kids and I don't want any of you to feel like that because you're good people all right love you all we'll talk to you soon bye-bye Thank you.