Taking Up Space: Margaret Qualley & Savanah Leaf

0:02Only connect, urged the novelist Anne Foster. He wrote this more than a century ago. Today, those words resonate more powerfully than ever. Artists and creatives collaborating across disciplines, geographies, and perceptions are truly leading the way. So join us. Let's connect.

0:27Welcome to the third season of Chanel Connects. I'm Yana Peele, Global Head of Arts and Culture at Chanel. In this series, we bring together global changemakers from the worlds of food, film, art, architecture and beyond. Some are old friends and collaborators. Others are meeting for the first time. All are focused on what matters most and what happens next. And now we get to listen in.

1:08Margaret Qualley and Savannah Leaf are two audacious talents shaking up the film industry, in front of and behind the camera. Margaret Qualley has already worked with some of the best directors in cinema, from Claire Denis and Quentin Tarantino to Yorgos Lanthimos and Ethan Coen. Savannah Leaf came to film as a former Olympic volleyball player, and her debut feature Earth Mama recently premiered at Sundance Film Festival to widespread acclaim. The multi-hyphenate duo sit down in New York for a conversation about their journeys so far.

1:50Hi. Hi. It's nice to meet you. I'm actually really excited to meet you and I love your movie so much. It's really, really beautiful. Can you explain for people that haven't watched it what it's about? So Earth Mama is the story of Gia, who is a young mother with two children in foster care and one on the way. And she's trying to figure out what she's going to do with her unborn child and how she's going to get through the system. I wrote the first draft, and I think the first draft was titled Earth Mama. and um I spent the whole film thinking like maybe I should just change it like a title can't be the same title from the first time you write a script right and then I kept thinking about it and I kept trying to change it and kept trying to change it and then it kept coming back to earth mom and I think probably because black women I think of as like the center of like motherhood the center of this universe.

2:56And so that kind of is this like earth mother. And then I think I was playing off of the idea that she is also a birth mother, you know? Sure. Yeah. And so that's kind of where it came from. And it kind of just stuck. Like I wanted to change it, but I couldn't. In my experience of watching this movie, the whole movie kind of feels like this negotiation about whether or not like this big decision that she has to make, right? And I'm not going to give away the ending, but I almost feel like the nature in which it's filmed and like this kind of dreamy world, it lends itself to the belief that perhaps it's all kind of like happening to you and that the decision's been made long ago.

3:46You're finding the answer as just like as life's happening to you. Did you connect to that concept at all? Yeah, I think she's in this kind of these obstacles. She's inside obstacles almost. Like she's faced with the system, and the system has outcomes for her. Right. And actually similar to me, it's very bureaucratic. It's very you ask one thing and they tell you ten things to come back with. It's such a waste of time. It's such a waste of time. And she's in all of that. And she's almost trying to get out. Totally. And then gets thrown back down and try to get out. And it's finding different routes while she's doing that.

4:31I also feel like time being the ultimate luxury, the best thing in the world, that both in Earth Mama and Maid, with the precious time that they do have free, They both gravitate towards nature as the ultimate meditation and connection to what it really is to be a human or a mama.

4:57I don't know. Nature is interesting because it's at once free, but it's free if you have time to experience it. And you can be literally living right at nature's doorstep, but your whole world's inside your four walls is chaos. Right. And so sometimes just taking a step outside for that little escape means everything to you, you know? Yeah, taking a breath. Taking a breath. Which is funny, because that's not really Tia who plays Gia. That's not really her personality. Like her personality is a lot more outgoing. And for being a non-actor, or at least starting as a non-actor, yeah um she had to really like pull herself in you know and I think the character like while it's not my full life experience like who she is as a person is very much me and I'm very like introverted yeah you know and I've got a lot going on inside but I'm shy yeah and so Tia had to kind of like all this stuff going on that she wants to speak she wants to like argue she wants to like maybe even like hit somebody right but like she keeps it in interesting and yeah i think that like helps create another layer to her in a really interesting way yeah you know yeah so i want to ask you about maid can you tell me a little bit about your experience playing a real person a real person's life?

6:31Yeah. Um, so Alex and Maid is based off of Stephanie Land, uh, who wrote a beautiful memoir about her experience, um, being a maid and having a kid and trying to get by. And, um, it's incredibly descriptive and like a, a beautiful and frustrating read given everything that she's having to navigate. But the like actual, you know, playing Alex, I was in fact playing Alex rather than playing Stephanie Land. I was playing a person that all these things happened to rather than playing, you know, like having to do mannerisms and an accent and look a certain way. It was really just like imagining it were me.

7:22I've been wanting to ask you this because I'm like really impressed and inspired by the physicality you put into the roles you play. Thank you. Yeah. I know it's like really beautiful. And it's really interesting because you obviously were a dancer before, but I'm curious how that transition may have either helped or didn't help kind of becoming an actor and what you had to like let loose and what you kind of took on board with you. Totally. Yeah. I'm also excited to ask you similar questions given that you were an Olympian, a volleyball player. And that's just crazy. Like most people, I would think just like don't, like that's probably the peak, you know, to be like an Olympic volleyball player and then be like an auteur director that has like their first movie be incredibly well received with A24 and like, you know, outstanding reviews and beautiful performances and incredibly heartwarming.

8:27It's like, I don't, that's a crazy trajectory. Thank you. You're so accomplished and so young and wise and gifted and talented. Should I just keep going? But, yeah, I have a million questions. I'll answer your question before I ask another one. But essentially, for me, you know what's interesting? I'll start at the very beginning, which is that I started dancing before I can even really remember. I was in dance class at two because that was something that my mom wanted to do. But didn't have the means to do as a kid. So immediately she put me in dance because that was something that she wished she'd experienced.

9:06So like that decision, I made the decision to keep doing it. I loved it. I was really grateful that I had that opportunity. But it wasn't something that I initially chose myself. And I was wondering, you obviously chose filmmaking. Did you choose volleyball? Did volleyball happen to you? Yeah. Well, actually, I chose it really early on. When I, because when I moved from the UK to America, I moved when I was like nine and I saw these kids, maybe when I was like a bit older than that, but I saw these kids playing volleyball and they, I saw them playing in the gym and my mom's like not really, didn't really know anything about volleyball.

9:47And I saw these kids and I was just like, it looks so liberating to like hit a ball as hard as you can. Yeah. Yeah. And so it started out as like this desire, you know, and then, and this like craving to do this like action. And I love that. Like the physicality and the competitiveness. Same. So like even when you say like hit the ball as hard as you can, like, but that does track to filmmaking. Because like now you get to like make the movie the best you can possibly make it. And like put all of that energy. There's like a winning spirit. And it crosses over. Yeah, exactly. And then working in kind of like a team environment.

10:24Totally. I think of like being a captain on a sports team or maybe it's like being a lead dancer. I don't know. Being a captain on a sports team, it's like you're guiding this group of people and you're trying to get the best out of everyone. So directing probably comes really naturally to you because you've been negotiating people's feelings and like encouraging people at it. You know, like and sometimes you really fuck up because like you say the wrong thing to someone. Right. And it really it fucks them up and they can't perform. where they struggle and they like become more introverted and what you have to do as a director is like own up to that sometimes you know and when you've said the wrong thing or done the wrong thing is like how can you how can you talk to them to like ease that and how can you really like get to know somebody to make them feel comfortable enough to like let that go or maybe you talk to a dp in a way that stops him from being his best self.

11:24And then you have to figure out, work together, how you can - But you're also just trying to be very efficient. You're trying to get the job done and you have this idea of how it's going to be the best. And so you're just trying to quickly articulate these things and also make sure that you're doing it in a way that is responsible for everybody. Exactly. And what about the physicality of being a dancer and how does that translate to acting or was doing ballet actually kind of the opposite? It was both, you know? It was like in ballet and also dance kind of more broadly. Like I grew up doing like competition dance, which is like a very different thing.

12:03And then basically like the world thinking that I'm a ballerina is just like my personal PR, you know what I mean? Because I was like, I think you're kind of running from everything that you are from age, I don't know, 13 to 25 or something. So over those ages, I was like, no, I'm a ballerina. I don't do NASCAR-style competition dance. But the reality is I did a lot more of that than ballet. I switched to ballet because there's more of a career trajectory there, and it was the best. It's the most respected. It's the most prestigious of it all. And in order to be good at anything else, you do have to be really good at ballet.

12:42You have to have proper technique. But the reality is I liked the other thing much more. And, but dance generally, I think, like informed most things about me, you know, like, I'm sure that there's like a work ethic that you relate to really deeply from volleyball. Once again, should I just say like, you went to the Olympics? Like, Jesus, like, why am I even comparing my... No, but like, there's a work ethic. But when I got older and I started playing professionally, like, it was painful a lot of times. Totally. That's the other thing. Like, it's super, super painful. Like, I would imagine, for me, like, doing movies was an out.

13:24Doing movies was like a, like, I was like, I know I can't do this forever. Like, my body isn't built to do the things that I'm doing. And because I did come from a competition world and then switched to ballet, like, there were certain things that I was having to kind of, like, break in order to make it right, you know? Yeah. And I wanted to be so perfect. And I knew that like if I, it just, I knew it was like a ticking time bomb of how long I could actually like play this game. And the rewards are so huge. You know what I mean? Like doing a thing and doing it well and putting your heart into it feels so magical that like I was really desperate to find another avenue to get that same feeling.

14:00To put your all into it. A hundred percent. Yeah. And movies are such a fun version of that. And I would imagine that you might relate to this as well. there's something really limiting about like dance in this training because it is it's ultimately a sport you know so it's like the only thing that makes you better at dancing is dancing you know and like yeah your pain your breakup's not going to help you be a better dancer like maybe artistically in some like very vague way but but like also I I don't know maybe this is something you're you're hitting on is that like for me sports was really difficult because I didn't get to say what I was thinking.

14:35Totally. Say anything at all. Say anything at all. It felt almost robotic at times. And that was really limiting for me, and I really struggled with that because I was emotionally wanting to say so much. But who cares what you say? No one. It's strongly discouraged. It's strongly discouraged. And so moving into film, it was like, like people finally care. Right. You know? Yeah. No, totally. Like ballet and dancers, it's a very silent culture. It was really like kind of terrifying testing the waters. Yeah. And then you're like slowly learning this new world of like art, like film. And there's also a certain kind of just like, like shut up and do it mentality within dance.

15:24And I would imagine volleyball too, where it's like, you're not really allowed to have any feelings around what's asked of you. You just do it. Because if you don't, someone else will. I've had so many coaches that I've walked out on coaches before because I was so frustrated at how rigid everything was. You just do things to repetition just to get better at it. You know what's beautiful about acting is you don't want everything to be exactly the same. No. In fact, the things that I would unlearn would be that there isn't a perfect you know what I mean like there isn't a right or wrong in fact like if you mess up it's probably better okay so you're like okay yeah like try to lose control do everything the opposite of what I've been doing for the last you know yeah and I love that which is really fun I really love it too it's like a and it's it's um it's a more like a timeless quest because the like reckoning with not having control is something that we're all going to be doing every day for the rest of our lives.

16:22And this is kind of a microcosm of that. Yeah. I feel like that's something that I've been searching for like in life in general is like, how can I wake up every day and not feel like I'm doing a repetition of the day before, you know? And like, that's what we get to do, which is really lucky. And like, I feel like very grateful for having that in my life, you know? I want to ask you just like a little bit more about being an Olympic volleyball player. Like You fell in love with volleyball when you moved to America. And then I basically played all the way through high school. And I was going to figure out college.

17:00I was figuring out college very early on, like freshman year of high school. And the reason is... Because you have to plan for that. You have to plan for it. And I also, I needed the financial scholarship. And so I got an offer to go play. And so I went and played at San Jose State, and then I transferred to the University of Miami. But I played all four years. And after my first year, I went and played. I did a tryout for the Olympic squad. And it was like a crazy experience, actually, now that you asked me. I'm remembering it. So it was really tough. It was like a competition to make the final team because there was like so many amazing, amazing players.

17:45And every week they would kind of say that either you went through or you didn't. And so it was like a really tough experience. And then finally I made the Olympics at like 18, which I still, I feel like I didn't fully register it until afterwards, you know. I just kind of like went. Right. Yeah. You didn't even have time to be like thinking about things. You have to be working so hard that you don't have time to like zoom out and evaluate where you are. It's just like a constant like running up the hill. Yeah. And honestly, like the crazy part was just afterwards because it was like I was just going.

18:20I was just every day was just like, OK, let's compete. Let's go harder. But it was just like the reality of coming back and like not having all the, you know, everybody's thinking you're like an Olympian. Everybody's talking to you. But like as soon as you come back, nobody cares. Right. You know, so I was playing and then I three or four years and then I got I started playing professionally in Turkey. and then Puerto Rico. And in Puerto Rico, I got injured. I got two stress fractures in my legs. And they said, we're going to either have to put rods in your legs or you're going to have to take a year off.

18:54And so I started to do that year off because I didn't want to be in a wheelchair. And in that time, I started to realize, like, I'm just, like, beating down my body. Right. And I was getting to a point where I didn't love it anymore. No, of course not. Yeah. Yeah. And that's that thing that we were talking about, that itching to find a way to express myself. And so it wasn't until film that I really felt like I could give something my all. I could express myself. People really value your uniqueness. Totally. This is another question I had was like, you've worked with so many incredible filmmakers.

19:37Yeah. And you're continuing to do it. and like hopefully I'll get to work with you one day how do you choose like all these different projects because they're kind of varied in in your roles as well it's not like you're playing the same thing every time I mean uh it's very different very different types of directors you know um I've been really lucky also like you know I think what's interesting is like um you know you guys you would only know of the projects that I got but like I've tried for lots of other things you know what I mean I've been really lucky on one on the directors that actually ended up wanting to work with me but like I would have worked with really anyone incredible I want to see that one but I do think that that's kind of like I think it's interesting the way it works out of who ends up kind of choosing you because it's a two way street do you like look towards certain directors and you're like, man, I really want to work with Claire.

20:40I'm going to chase her down and show her that. Well, not Claire specific. I did really want to work with Claire, but that one was more like, I was at Venice Film Festival and Claire Denis had just seen Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. And some man at the airport came up to me and told me that Claire Denis had a new movie and wanted to cast me in it. And the man at the airport did end up to be a reliable source and was like her casting director. her by the time I was like yeah sure bye but then I was like great and I adore Claire and it was really amazing getting to work with her but definitely there's filmmakers that I really really want to work with and have chased down but I I think like the best part of working with a filmmaker that you love is just the thing that we were talking about this idea of being able to like be out of control because if you really feel so safe if you feel like um somebody knows what they're doing much better than you do then you can kind of there's there's no losing and you can be like um the best of yourself or the worst of yourself and feel okay and you kind of learn that through like casting process but I guess just like hanging out with people and talking to people because it's how do you you don't really know what you're getting yourself into until you spend time with someone and know that you have that comfortability to be able to try things out and test things out and be in this totally yeah but I also think that there's like a I don't feel competitive in the way of like luckily at this point in my life I don't feel competitive in the way of comparing myself to other people but I do feel competitive within myself um and I'm sure that you do too and it's like it's really I hate letting myself down you know I hate that feeling so much so like I'd so much rather like try and fail than not and feel like I could have yeah I was gonna ask you a really tough question do it when I felt like I failed yeah so many times so many times and also like and there's there's been moments when I've been lucky and like I've been that's someone stopped me like okay there was one one time I was one of my first days on set with Quentin Tarantino for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

22:57I was like, we were doing a scene at Spahn Ranch. And so there was a bunch of like big actors there. There's Brad Pitt. And I was just kind of, and we were doing a scene that Quentin had written the night before too. So it was all like, it was like somewhat improvisational to a degree, but not really, it's like, it's very specific. It's not improv, but it was just like, there was room for kind of doing what we wanted. Like he was encouraging that, you know what I mean? and I like wanted to do something and then didn't do it. And he like called cut and came up to me and was like, hey, did you like want to do something and not do it?

23:35And I was like, oh my God. Yeah. I was like shocked that he could tell, but he was right. And then I was like, yeah. And he was like, well, do it next time. And I was like, okay. And then I like did it. And I was like, right. Like, I mean, he's amazing because everything's so rhythmic with him. And he's like paying so much attention to everything. He could like feel it, you know, he could feel that like there was something that was meant to happen that didn't happen. And, um, but there was another good lesson of like, just take up the space. Like you're okay. You can take up all the space that you want and it's fine, you know?

24:08Yeah. Um, but I think like women are often encouraged to not do that. Yeah. I feel like I'm constantly learning how to like break away from that. Well, also like, it's scary to take up space because then when you go home, you're like, but I did this. and this and this and this and like what it's like it's much safer to just be quiet and yeah i think that's one of your strengths and why people are so drawn to you is that especially in that film i feel like so many people were just like what like who well yeah i luckily i learned that lesson on the first day because then i was like hello okay that's like that's such a power that's such a power that you have that thank you so what do you want to do next um for me i'm kind of focusing on releasing earth mama um but then i'm also writing and um i you know what it's really amazing getting to the point where you're about to release a movie or you're releasing a movie because you know like at least for me right now i feel like i'm itching to like write and like get back in there yeah um And I have this other thing that's like brewing inside of me.

25:24So every day I'm like, it's like vomit. I'm just like writing. Awesome. So yeah, that's what I'm doing right now. Lots of writing. Yeah. I can't wait to see what you make. Thank you. And what about you? What are you up to next? I did a lot last year. So I did a few movies. I did one movie with Ethan Coen called Drive Away Dolls that's going to come out in September. And that was really fun. And then before that, I did a movie called Sanctuary that's actually out right now. And it feels like the most athletic, if you will, of all the movies I've done. It's very, it feels like, yeah, if acting is a sport kind of.

26:07I loved making the movie. I did it with my friend Chris Abbott and this director, Zach Wiggin, who I just adore. And it was a teeny tiny movie we made in New York in 18 days. Wow. And, but I like, I'm proud of it and I'm happy that it's out in theaters and I hope people see it. And it's a rom-com. It's like fun and. Completely different than me. Yeah, it's a different, it's a different vibe than Earth Mama. It is. It's been so special to meet you and I'm like very grateful to have had this conversation. I had a lot of fun talking to you and yeah, you're just amazing. I can't wait to watch everything that you do.

26:50I'm really blown away by you. And thanks for, you know, talking to me. Of course. Let's do it again. Okay, great.

27:06This was Chanel Connect Season 3. It's been great having you with us. Don't forget to follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Revisit conversations from the first two seasons with guests including Tilda Swinton, Kehinde Wiley, G-Dragon, Keira Knightley, and Grimes.