Craig Finn on Friendship, Fans and The Hold Steady’s Second Life

24:27Rhapsody owns that brand. Yeah, but it's now – I think now they call it Napster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a friend of mine, like, gave me a free account, and then I sort of got hooked on the interface. So I just – I don't know. It was more intuitive to me. And I don't know what Napster does in terms of the sort of discovery, curation. Do they have something where they present stuff to you or you go tell them? Yeah, there probably is. But I tend to, I read a lot about music still. And also just being on the road, you see what bands are playing. You're like, oh, that looks like something. Let me go listen to this.

24:57But I do kind of use that as a music discovery. I'm not usually led by them, but I am led by reviews or, you know, word of mouth. People say, oh, that's a cool band. I'll go check it out. And do you have some tipping point where you're like, all right, if there's two songs I like, I'll buy the album? You know, yeah, maybe. Or sometimes it's just like I think that's something I want. Or sometimes I'll be in the record store and be like, I want to hear that. That looks cool. I mean, the thing about the album, I really like the artwork and all that. But also it comes with a download card usually.

25:27So you can get it on the device that you're more likely to listen to music on. Yeah. So what is the difference between a Craig Finn solo album and a Hold Study album? Well, I mean, the solo stuff kind of burns a little slower, maybe, or burns a little less. The Hold Steady is a bigger, more rocking thing, and I'd say the solo thing is a little less big. This one sounds kind of big to me. But it's pretty big. There's a lot of production. I mean, it sounded pretty similar to Hold Steady. Yeah. I mean, this one has a lot of horns and stuff. I mean, the one thing, as far as the songwriting goes, is I pretty much just write the lyrics for the Hold Steady.

26:04We get in a room. the way songs come out is we get in a room and Ted usually has riffs and we play them and I'm yelling into a microphone and a while later we have a song where with this solo stuff I'm kind of like playing a guitar and I write the song a very simple song and then I'll show you know in the past I've shown it to the old steady guys and it's not like oh no that we don't want that song like put it on your solo album it's more like almost by the point of the having music and lyrics together, we've had a hard time hold steadifying the song, and it ends up just kind of being a solo song.

26:36I like that you use hold steadifying as a verb, because I wanted to use springsteeniness as an adjective. I understand where you'd be going with that. So that springsteeniness that's in the hold steady stuff, and I think in this album as well, that through line, is that Tad? Is that you? Is it both of you? Probably both of us. I mean, although if it's on the solo record, it's just me there. Although he's on this one as well. Yeah, he does play some guitar on this. And Springsteen is something, it's like, I've been obviously compared to a lot, because I am a huge fan. And he's a literate guy with a great backing band and a musical thing that references both new rock, but also harkens back to classic rock.

27:18And older rock, which is something also. The Holt Steady's use of the piano also really kind of connected us to Springsteen and the Eastern band. And the horns. But Springsteen is something that I came to in my 20s. I was going to ask because I don't – I mean, I listened to Bruce Springsteen, but I listened to it the same way that everyone – we're the same age. Yeah. We all listened to, you know, Born in the USA. Yeah. But at least in Minnesota, it wasn't like you talk to people who grew up on the East Coast. I love Bruce Springsteen. But there wasn't that connection, and we were into indie rock bands and men and whatever.

27:49I was nervous about – I was sort of identifying as an indie rocker, like a mild punk rocker. So, you know, to me, listening to Husker Du and the Replacements was something that was, you know, hipper than listening to Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, almost kind of the conventional wisdom among a little subset of us, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't think Springsteen was that hip. I also was kind of mistrustful of, like, Led Zeppelin. And it was, I sort of just burned out on indie at some point in the 20s or got more. I don't know, I kind of went back and folded back into really getting all the Rolling Stones records and Springsteen and Led Zeppelin.

28:25So all the stuff that we would have listened to in KQRS. Yeah. And then that discarded because it was old guy music. Yeah, old guy music. But maybe then getting a copy of Let It Bleed and hearing the songs that they didn't play on KQRS, the deeper cuts, and being like, oh, this is actually kind of amazing. Monkey Man's an amazing song. Yeah, right. And like, yeah, I like it. Goats Head Soup because Mick's wearing the cape. And, you know, like this real kind of decadent thing. And it was just like, you know, I burned out on Indy because it was kind of at some point just got really nerdy to me. That's, I mean, you've got a bunch of songs about that, right?

29:05Stay Positive is about that. Yeah. Sort of burning out on that scene. Yeah. And also sort of wanting to do something. I mean, even the level of Lifter Puller was big in Minneapolis. us it was i wanted to do something it was you know we still did like weird shows at art galleries that no one knew about you know and like we're kind of deliberately not for everyone or something and i i think when we started the whole study it was very we we had conversations we wanted to be really inclusive yeah i gotta say i was i didn't love lift or puller it was a little a little a little aggressive for me yeah i can admit that now yeah and when i heard that you had a new band i'm like oh well it's going to be like that so probably not for me and when i eventually heard I'm like, oh, this is accessible.

29:45It was more accessible. It was more wide open, I think, and less jagged or less spiky or something. Yeah, that's a good word for it. And it was reflective of what we were listening to, kind of more open-minded and more, but also just really wanting to be inclusive. And now it's, again, I'm really not listening that much, but it seems like there's a thread of that sort of, that kind of music that people are newly appreciative of. Titus Andronicus, who you've worked with. But again, sort of similar sort of indie rock plus Springsteen. Well, Springsteen really had a, I think, has had a second or third or fourth act or something.

30:21I think, you know, that people really, I don't know, people admired his, I don't know what the word is, but his, just his work ethic and his inclusiveness and his words. And I mean, I think bands like, big bands like Arcade Fire, I mean, I think, or take some Springsteen. and um yeah i just always thought of him as kind of a regional like i knew that he was a giant international star but at least growing up in the midwest just did not come through there yeah it's funny though then um i saw him in saint paul and i felt the same way but then i saw him in 2007 in saint paul and like you know all the bars around the excel center were like cranking springsteen and stuff and i was like oh maybe this is always there and i just wasn't paying attention you know i i music was you know like i i needed i needed people to know that i was uh this one way uh when i was younger and like you know it was i always think about i would go to shows at first avenue and you'd go to the merch table and you could buy the record or you could buy the t-shirt and i always buy the t-shirt because like if i bought the record who at school would know i went to the show you know and um i guess there's a part of going getting over that that's important.

31:32Yeah, I think about that, and I also think about the idea that at a certain point for me, even knowing about music, or even having a chance to listen to it, meant that you displayed some kind of commitment because you had to get on a bus or get your mom to take you to first, however you got to first avenue, and that you had to expend effort to know about this stuff and consume it. And again, that's all sort of gone now, right? It's one button, anything you want. And on the one hand, that's great. You can literally hear anything you want. On the other hand, it seems like it's less earned, so it's less cool.

32:00But I've got to get over that. Yeah, there's less commitment or less discovery. I mean, think about buying sort of pre-Nirvana buying alternative rock record or whatever it was called. I would say underground rock back then. And you had to go to like a place like Orfolk Jocapist or something. It wasn't like you could go to Musicland and there's all these records, but they weren't those records. And so you had to go to like almost a specialized store. Northern Lights. Yeah, or something. Northern Lights or Folk and buy. And I remember explaining that to my mom. She was like, well, why didn't we just go to that restaurant?

32:36They're not going to have the good stuff. They're not going to have it. And she was like, well, what is this stuff you're in doing? And so the idea of sort of setting yourself apart was part of the thing. Yeah, it's an identity. And so do you think about that when you're looking at people who are consuming your stuff now and realizing it's, for many of them, I mean, again, They come from New Zealand to see your shows, and that's some serious effort. But for a lot of them, it's a button, and then they hear something else, and they move on. And maybe means less to them. I think maybe, but I don't know.

33:03I suspect, I get the feeling, just from talking to the people who come to our shows, that these people are, they're like Springsteen fans. They are really into this one thing. It's not like, yeah, I want to, you know, I meet a lot of people that have gone to like. They didn't stop by. Yeah, a lot of people are going to their 45th show. And, you know, they're, you know, it's not like I went to nine shows this week. It's like, you know, I traveled. I traveled 1 ,200 miles to go to this one. That's cool. We'll be right back. But first, a word from our sponsor. How many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer?

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34:46We're back here with Craig Finn. I was reading one of the articles about one of the other solo albums you did, and they said, this is Craig's 9-11 album. It's 15 years later. Everyone's getting their head around Trump. Do you think your music is generally not political? Springsteen is often more political. Do you think that's going to change the way you create music? I'm not sure. I mean, I do feel like we are in new times. I think this record I'm putting out right now, We All Want the Same Things, talks about a lot of characters. that are in, you know, it's more anecdote-based stories, but it's a lot of people that are, well, I would say not all the characters voted probably the same way I did.

35:29And I would say a number of them don't have health insurance. And I think a lot of them are struggling in today's America and just trying to get through. The stories and the songs are about people who are trying to push through this world today. So in some ways that is political on some level. But yeah, we feel, I certainly, more than ever before I get really angry when you're on social media and people say, stick to singing. Or stick to sports or whatever. Stick to tech. You know, whatever you are, I am a singer or a ranter or a talker or whatever you might say. But I'm also a small business owner.

36:10And at very least I think I have the right to express my opinion as that. Do you think your audience all votes the same way? No. No, you think it's a heterogeneous crowd? I think it's a mixed crowd, but I'm guessing most people vote the same way as I do. Yeah. But I think there are definitely Trump voters in my audience. Do you think about, maybe I got a, you know, everyone in my blue state bubble spent the last few months going, I don't even know anyone like this. I literally can't comprehend this. Was that, do you sort of know, oh, I know what some Trump voters look like because I've seen them in my audience.

36:44I mean, you also are touring, so you're going to different parts of America. And, you know, I mean, my friends in the Drive-By Truckers made a great album called American Band last year that was very explicitly political. And they lost, you know, they got some negative feedback from some portion of their fan base. I was sort of like, I don't know what Drive-By Truckers you guys were listening to before because I always thought they were a political band. But, you know, this was maybe one click more explicit. it. But yeah, I see, I mean, I think, I think I, I think Springsteen has people in his audience, obviously that are, that are mixed in people's politics are, are hard to predict when they're at the show, but I'm sure, I'm sure.

37:26But that doesn't, you know, and, and nor do I think that all, you know, the people who vote differently than me are inherently bad, even in this election, but I, I would differ than, you know, I would say that maybe they aren't asking the same questions I'd ask. I saw Louis C.K. play in Philadelphia the week before the election. And I thought, okay, at some point in this hour and a half, whatever it is, he's going to reference, because he's talked about Trump a bunch of times on social media and it's in Philadelphia. Not a word. By the end of it, it seemed almost strange for him not to even acknowledge the election in any way.

38:01And I always thought, is he possibly concerned about losing an audience? That doesn't seem right. It seemed like a real conscious effort for him to not do that. Yeah. I mean, the one thing I would say, and I just did this living room tour where people, I played in living rooms and people invited strangers into their house. And it felt like mildly political, mildly revolutionary to just get people in a room all together, people you don't know, and invite them into your house. And I think that, like at a rock show, every day, every year, it gets more and more important that we have these experiences.

38:37We all get in the same room together. Because as we know, we can sit in our computers and converse. We can be in the same room and be separate. Yeah. And to be focused on the same thing, I think, is more and more important. I think Trump voters found that same thing at those rallies. I think that there was a lot of power that he gained from putting those people in the same room and saying, like, these people think like me. I feel like going to a rock show is great. You feel like, all right. When I'm at a show and I look over and there's a guy in a Titus Andronicus shirt, I can say, hey, man, Titus Andronicus, did you see that last show at Webster Hall?

39:14And that's not weird. You know what I mean? Now we're here. We're together. We're able to talk. And I think those moments are very important. And I think that's one of the things that still excites me about doing music is building these communities. We talk about Springsteen a lot. I want to make sure you played with him, right? I sang with Bruce at Carnegie Hall. How cool is that? It was pretty cool. We sang Rosalita, and he invited a bunch of us. It was a night that was kind of paying tribute to him. And we were told, I think it was expected that he wouldn't be there, but then he was there. And he got up and he played Rosalita, and he invited some of us to sing.

39:50I sang the first verse, and then a couple other people took the other verses. There's a lot going on in that one, right? Yeah. It was pretty obvious I knew it pretty well, so he let me kind of bring it home. And it was great. I mean, you know, there was a moment I was like, I'm singing with Bruce Springsteen. I need to not think about that for five minutes because, like, I just got to get through this. Where does that rank in your all-time cool things you get to do as a rock star? Pretty high up there. I mean, he's pretty, and, you know, I was able to meet him through that, although it was a little later.

40:21And, you know, very, very good and very supportive. supportive and, you know, they say don't meet your heroes, but I think Bruce is, you know, sort of transcends that. Opening for the Stones was another one. I opened for the Stones in Slain Castle in Dublin and that was a, that was a big one too. I mean, although - Do you interact with them when you open for them or you just go, no, no. No, no, no. We got, I don't think we got anywhere near them. And I, and I also, you know, it's great to say you open for the Stones, but not many people are there to check out the opening band, but it was cool.

40:51How did that go over? I'd say it was all right. I mean, it was raining, and, you know, it could have gone. I think it was, no one was hostile, but, you know, I think people were pretty ready for the Stones to come on. Yeah. Other cool things I know that you've done, you get to create a Minnesota Twins theme song? Well, we did a version of Take Me Out to the Ballgame, and I'm a big Twins fan. They played in the stadium, right? Yeah, they played it in the stadium for a season, and we never did it, like, live. Oh, they played your version throughout the season? Yeah, they played it in every game pretty much.

41:23I used to have a connection with the music guy there who was a really good guy, but he doesn't work there anymore. You guys got a shout-out in Lost for our classmate Eddie Kitsis? Our classmate Eddie Kitsis, who remains my best friend, was a writer on Lost and I think threw that in there. Hugo or Hurley? He was wearing a T-shirt, right? No, he asked a girl if she wanted to go see the Holt Steady at Troubadour. I thought someone was wearing a Holt Steady t-shirt at one point there, too. That may be possible. But at any rate, any interaction with TV, and we've also had a connection with Game of Thrones.

42:01That's the last one I was going to ask you about. Anytime you connect with TV, you realize how much bigger TV is than music. Because that Lost thing, I remember I was sitting in a diner eating dinner with the band in Canada, and all of our phones just started shaking. And someone mentioned us on Lost. That's very cool. And then, yeah, so Game of Thrones, there's at the end of one of the episodes, the bear, right? Yeah, the bear had been made fair, and that was the guys who run the show were fans and said. And I think they've done one every season where a band. They bring in a contemporary band.

42:33Yeah, the National did one, I think. Because the song was in the book, so we didn't write the song. Or the lyrics were, anyways. So we kind of created the song. And they had an idea if they wanted kind of a drinking song. and it was cool but again so the scene ends, the episode ends your song comes on not only the scene ends but the guy gets his hand chopped off and then it goes black and the song comes in so I found that doubly thrilling because the guy got his hand chopped off and then there's Craig's band that was cool I don't know the show that well I know my girlfriend watches it a lot of the guys in the band watch it but I haven't really plugged in but we did get to visit the set outside of Belfast and that was really cool.

43:17Even without watching the show, it was like, wow, this is actually kind of, I mean, they have kind of these worlds created. It's pretty cool to watch people, at least for me because I'm a nerd about this stuff, even if I ever get to go in a studio a lot and get to see, oh, look, that guy's in a costume. He's going to make a TV show or movie or something. That's still pretty cool. We watched a scene getting shot, and then there was like an ice world or something that was fascinating because it was like this white kind of cottony. It's the wall, I think. Yeah, the wall, maybe. I mean, I've watched every episode.

43:46I should know. I'm going to feign like I don't know it. Yeah. Great detail. I think it's the wall. And you talked about that at the beginning. That's money for you, too. In this case, someone had written the song, so it's not publishing. I mean, that wouldn't necessarily generate, but other things do. And sometimes it's a little thing. Like, you know, you're in the background of law and order or whatever. But it adds up, and that's helpful. so do you think it's some like so we're two middle-aged guys and you're talking about rock and roll do you how long do you think you will be touring do you think you're gonna be air supply playing baby king probably probably i mean i like it that's the other thing is i think i'm i'm in i like it more than other people i really like the travel now i don't have kids so i think like you know like it's i've keep myself pretty like it like it's light you know as far as my like things weighing me down but i really enjoy like i i like nothing more than being in a strange city and kind of lost.

44:38So the touring's exciting to me. I'm about to go for it. You're not bored with it? No. No, I like it. I really like it. And I like the performances. I like the community. I think other people have less tolerance for it than I do. But, you know, I would hope I'm not doing out of complete necessity when I'm 70 or something. And also, you know, you've got the image of the Hold Steady is rock and roll, beer-y, boozy, but you can't keep that up forever. Yeah, that's sort of a little bit. I mean, there's some of that now, but it's definitely changed. I think at some point when we started doing over 100 days a year, it was like, well, we can't really behave like this.

45:15And that was both what you were doing on stage and hanging out after stage, but also the characters and sort of the themes of the songs. It was all just sort of one big. Yeah, it was a big celebratory thing. And I think in Lift or Puller, I really wrote about the most debauched, the party stuff. Hold Steady I wrote about both, the party on the hangover. In the solo work, I think I'm more into writing about people being on the other side of all of it and wondering if they're stuck or trying to get out of being stuck or trying to rise above their circumstance. Do you find that people, your fans, casual fans, get that there's you singing a song and you're singing in the character of someone else and there's a distinction?

46:00Most people do, but there is, I always find that there, I've always said there's more of an expectation for things to be confessional in songwriting than like filmmaking. You know, no one thinks Quentin Tarantino does the things that are in his films. Quentin would love it. That was the pain. Yeah. But, you know, songs, people are like, did you really do that? You know, there seems to be an issue of authenticity with music in some way in songwriting. You know, people like, you know, people love like, you know, that guy's really down home. That guy lives in a shack with a shotgun, so he can sing that song.

46:33Some of that's late 70s on, right? Singer, songwriter. Just a different style of music and a different perception of it. But I've got to say, I'm fairly sophisticated about this stuff. I remember when I was hearing your Separation Sunday album, Craig and I grew up in a leafy suburb. Maybe he had a whole alternate lifestyle, but I don't remember this being part of Craig's lifestyle. I'm like, oh, no, they're characters. Yeah, they're characters. I think I'm trying to do something that's somewhat cinematic, if that makes sense. Yeah, and people get it. Yeah, yeah. Most people get it. Whatever thing I got from your guys, it had a little bit of an explanation for each song, which is cool.

47:11Will someone be able to see? There's like a paragraph of explanation for each one of the songs. I'm sure. I don't know. That was press materials, but I'm sure it'll end up on the internet somewhere. Little liner notes. There was a great thing about, you said something about codependency, another codependency song. Yeah, a lot of the songs in this new record, We All Want the Same Things, are about this modern version of love, which is, I sort of say, uneasy partnerships of people pooling their resources to kind of get forward. I think living in New York, the real estate being so high, people move in after their third date.

47:46Yeah, so you have a lot of real estate relationships. Yeah, and I think there's versions of that throughout the record of people kind of making these teams. You know, when you're 28, you go to the summer, you go to nine weddings. And then you're 45 and some of those, they're kind of unraveling. But you always hear your friends are saying, but we're such a good team. We get the kids at school on time. We put dinner on the table. We do the handoff after school so well. And so that got me thinking a lot about how we kind of make these partnerships to get through. I gotta re-listen to everything with that mindset.

48:25Craig, this is super fun. Thanks, Peter. Let's do it again in less than 20 years. Yeah. Go buy Craig's album. What's the best place for them to find it? You know, whatever works for you. But let's say in your local record store, an independent record store would be the nicest for everyone. Go find an extant local record store and consume it there. Thanks, Craig. Take care. It was good, right? Here is the part where I normally thank everyone. but since it's the last show of the year I want to thank my producer Charlotte Silver who has been working with me for much of 2025 and has really improved the show.

48:59If you are still casting about for a New Year's resolution a good one might be to find someone like Charlotte who makes your work better. Thank you Charlotte and thanks to you guys too. See you soon.

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