In short
A discussion of Charlotte Klein’s New York Magazine profile of Bari Weiss and what her rise from LA “exile” to head of CBS News reveals about the current media/political moment, including how moguls embraced her and how her Free Press model could reshape CBS.
Guest backgrounds
Charlotte Klein is a journalist who reported on Weiss for a profile; Peter Kofka is chief correspondent at Business Insider and hosts Channels.
Key claims
Weiss resigned from the New York Times in 2020 amid the Tom Cotton op-ed newsroom revolt; she built The Free Press (opinion-heavy, “anti-woke/anti-DEI” tone) and early gained influence via Substack/podcasting. In LA and at billionaire salons (e.g., Brian Grazer), she became a “safe” debate partner for wealthy executives. Her network and timing (pandemic, online consumption) helped attract major backers and an “acqui-hire”-style CBS News path via David Ellison after Sun Valley relationship-building.
Notable examples
Sun Valley (Allen & Co; press roped off); Weiss moderating; her podcast “The Witch Trials of J.K. Brown” (with J.K. Rowling); mentions of donors/figures like Jeff Bezos, Lauren Sanchez, Mark Andreessen, Eric Schmidt, Kim Kardashian, Sheryl Sandberg, and Bill Maher.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOBari Weiss: Controversial Media Figure
2:10 to 3:56
Peter and Charlotte discuss Bari Weiss's rise in media and her impact.
“I want to kick off 2026 by talking about Barry Weiss, the writer and editor and founder of the Free Press, who is also now the head of CBS News.”
Understanding Bari Weiss's Journey
3:56 to 6:17
Exploration of Weiss's background and her controversial positions in media.
“fully understand enough is that media moguls of all stripes love Barry Weiss.”
Her Departure from the New York Times
6:17 to 8:01
Discussion about Weiss's resignation and its implications in media dynamics.
“Let's let's start with her move that she was at The Wall Street Journal, went to The Times, was sort of explicitly brought there to be sort of like almost a token conservative.”
Bari Weiss in Los Angeles
8:01 to 10:36
How Weiss's move to LA and her connections with moguls shaped her career.
“To sort of high profile writers they thought would attract a lot of attention.”
The Appeal of Bari Weiss
10:36 to 14:00
A look at why powerful individuals are drawn to Bari Weiss and her insights.
“Most of the people who run the town are liberals.”
Understanding Bari Weiss's Appeal to Moguls
14:00 to 18:32
Explore why Bari Weiss resonates with elite moguls and her unique personality.
“And I think, you know, there are a lot of journalists who take themselves really seriously and who can't sort of turn it off.”
The Evolution of the Free Press
19:32 to 28:00
Discuss the growth of the Free Press and Weiss's journey in media.
“And we're here to invite you to the Curiosity Shop.”
Bari Weiss's Role at CBS News
28:00 to 32:14
Explore Bari Weiss's management dynamics and the implications of her new role at CBS.
“And and then the conversations progress.”
Controversies Surrounding CBS News Decisions
33:56 to 40:50
Discuss the pullback of a controversial 60 Minutes story and its implications.
“Let's talk about the 60 Minutes Seacott story, which, again, broke around the time your story was published.”
Transcript
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2:01Peter Kafka:From the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is Channels with Peter Kofka. That's me. I'm also chief correspondent at Business Insider. Happy New Year. I want to kick off 2026 by talking about Barry Weiss, the writer and editor and founder of the Free Press, who is also now the head of CBS News. As you know, people have a lot of strong feelings about Weiss. I think a lot of them only know a caricature of her. So I was delighted to read Charlotte Klein's profile of Weiss a few weeks ago in New York Magazine, which happened to come out around the same time as the Barry Weiss 60 Minutes was blowing up.
2:35Peter Kafka:So I think it got overshadowed. Let's shine some light on it now and talk about what it tells us about the moment we're in. Welcome, Charlotte. Hi, Peter. Thanks for having me. Nice to see you in the studio. You're kind of my fellow co-worker. Yeah. What a weird world we live in. Let's talk about Barry Weiss instead of me. When you started reporting about Barry Weiss, what did you want to write about? What was the plan? So I started reporting this in the fall. It was late September, early October. And at that point, she had just become editor-in-chief of CBS. and my editor and I felt like it's too soon to sort of go into what she's doing at CBS, whether successful or not.
3:17And, you know, every other media reporter was swarming around it. When I called people, I was like, I'm doing a profile of Bear Weiss along with every other media reporter. But I felt like I wanted to focus on, you know, this compact period of time, the five years between when she left the Times and when this acquisition happened.
3:35Peter Kafka:So you describe it as her sort of exile in LA. Yes. not all that time was spent in LA, but I think a significant part of it was, and I felt like that had been undercovered. There were profiles of her during her time in LA, but not really about the latter half of her time, which I feel like was really important to her ascent. So it just felt like that was an untold story and a good place to focus on. I think it's really good, really nuanced, and underlines this point that I think people don't fully understand enough is that media moguls of all stripes love Barry Weiss. And I want to talk about why that is.
4:08Peter Kafka:But let's back up for one second. If you're a casual Barry Weiss observer, meaning you're a normal person, you probably know she's controversial, but you probably don't know much else about her. What's the sort of best way to describe who she is at this moment? So Barry Weiss, I would say to understand who she is at this moment, you have to think back a few years to when she left. She was a writer and an editor at the New York Times in the opinion section. She resigned in 2020 amid this newsroom revolt over their publishing of the Tom Cotton op-ed. And she was sort of like one of the first people to sort of resign publicly before it was a trend to do so.
4:50And she's sort of a culture warrior. She's very openly pro-Israel. She is anti-DEI. She is anti-cancel culture. She helped found the University of Austin, which is this, you know, free-thinking university. And she founded this website, The Free Press, which I think, you know, yesterday amassed two million subscribers, which is crazy. And she is, I think, for a lot of people, a perfect person to push back against these excesses of the left. She's anti-woke, anti-cancel culture.
5:20Peter Kafka:That was sort of her brand, especially in the first Trump presidency, right? Yes, but she was— Which is, I'm against Trump, but I'm also against cancel culture. Maybe the thinking person's conservative or conservative liberals can enjoy because they're going to I'm going to I'm going to poke some sacred cows. Right. But her being anti-Trump, I think, is important because it's not it makes her she's sort of this perfect. She's like a perfect amalgamation of everything. You know, we say in the piece she's she's openly gay. She is avowedly centrist. She is a Zionist. She was educated at Columbia.
6:00yet she is anti, you know, elite universities. And, you know, a lot of her work has been pushing back against what's going on on college campuses. And she's anti-woke. So she's sort of like a safe person for a lot of people to like, even if those people who like her have differing beliefs.
6:15Peter Kafka:Yeah, I think that I think that all makes sense. And she was brought in at the Times. Let's let's start with her move that she was at The Wall Street Journal, went to The Times, was sort of explicitly brought there to be sort of like almost a token conservative. Totally. And in the New York Times is a very liberal institution. Let's balance that out by having her and Bret Stephens come over to The Times. And I think in a lot of ways that was very successful initially. Yeah. Caused, stirred up a lot of controversy, wrote a lot of stuff that, you know, sometimes readers hated. But I think she was explicitly brought in to do that, to sort of shake up the times.
6:50Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think she was pushing back against things. You know, she was pushing back against Me Too at a time when that was very unorthodox.
6:59Peter Kafka:Yeah, she wrote this, I think, very good piece in 2018 about Aziz Ansari. Right. You can cast your memory back then where he was accused of either acting terribly towards a woman or having a bad date with her, depending on who you're talking to. And how old that person is, I think, you're talking to means a lot. Anyway, she leaves the Times in 2020. This is George Floyd time. Me Too stuff is really ramped up. And she essentially says, I've been hounded out of the Times. Well, the Times especially is sort of— The Times is tearing itself apart. She is very much part of that fight. There's a large contingent of people there who really dislike her.
7:37Yes.
7:37Peter Kafka:She claims— And those people are empowered more than they've ever been, I would say. She claims she was harassed. Right. The Times said they looked at it, said they didn't think so. But she leaves the Times, and I think there's a lot of people think, oh, she's immediately going to start a sub stack. This was sort of the notion then. Well, I don't know. Was it a sub stack as big then? I feel like she was early. Early-ish, but it was definitely like seemed like a logical place for her to go. I remember. And also Substack was handing out money at the time. At that time? Yes. To sort of high profile writers they thought would attract a lot of attention.
8:08Peter Kafka:It seemed, oh, I thought she'll go there, she'll take some Substack money and she'll launch her own thing. But I do think timing is important here in terms of her being early to publicly resign and, you know, gain a lot of attention and build a following from that. She was early to Substack. Like, I lot of ways, which I think has helped her become what she is now. She's got a very good radar. And here we should say a couple of things. One, I've asked her if she wanted to comment on your piece. She has not responded. Two, I know her wife, Nellie Bowles. We used to work together back in what was called Recode days.
8:43Peter Kafka:So there's the disclosures there. She leaves the New York Times. She and Nellie Bowles eventually move to Los Angeles. They become introduced to the mogul class there. How does that happen? They moved to L.A. not really knowing anyone. And at that time, she's doing her sub stack and people start noticing. Also, these powerful people are sort of looking for a young person to explain what's happening in the world to them at their workplaces, on their studio lots, this sort of eat the rich mentality. And because she's writing this and because she's writing a lot of things that powerful people resonate with, she becomes a sort of, oh, you should talk to her.
9:23Like she can help you make sense.
9:24Peter Kafka:Explain a little bit more about what you're talking about in terms of explaining what's going on in their workplace. So, I mean, this is, you know, a nationwide reckoning over police brutality and racial inequality. This is a time when a lot of powerful people are being forced, they would probably say, to step down because of their leadership or a lack of diversity in their workplace. And it sort of feels like it's like a free-for-all in a sense of lower-level employees are newly empowered to demand things and voice their frustrations. And those frustrations are being taken very seriously. And in some – So the leadership class really isn't prepared to deal with all this pushback they're getting publicly from their employees, from people outside who are maybe their customers who are unhappy about something they're doing or not doing.
10:15Peter Kafka:And they're kind of befuddled about it. But also more broadly, you know, people are there's people are taking down Confederate statues and there's sort of a broader also change happening in the country aside from just, you know, from corporate. And we also have the pandemic. And the pandemic. So people are locked in their homes. And schools. Like there are so many different things going on that I think people are divided. And Hollywood was and still is a largely liberal place. Right. Most of the people who run the town are liberals. Most of them are, you know, confirmed Democrats. Yeah. You have this great line in here.
10:48Peter Kafka:It's a quote. We say you're quoting one of the people who sees Barry Weiss increasingly at parties. She says or they say she became this kind of party trick for wealthy West Side executives who wanted to have a certain kind of conversation they thought they couldn't have in public. So what what are those conversations? Where are they happening? Who's at them? Yeah. So the conversations are, you know, they could be about anything from the, you know, L.A. mayoral race, Rick Caruso versus Karen Bass. They could be about opening schools, basically just generally the stifling of debate that was going on in the country, both, you know, from a political sense and also in workplaces.
11:29And those conversations are happening at oftentimes these, you know, Hollywood titans homes because it's COVID and people aren't going to parties and socializing in that way. But people like Brian Grazier, who's a big Hollywood producer, he has these sort of salon type events at his house. He's had them regularly and he decides he's going to hold one to talk about cancel culture. And he gets introduced to Barry Weiss and he feels like she's a great person to come and talk at the salon. But she's there alongside, you know, celebrities like Leonardo DiCaprio and Kim Kardashian. And then Weiss puts out this podcast about, you know, the witch trials of JK, called the witch trials of J.K.
12:10Brown. This is another one of her big focuses.
12:11Peter Kafka:Yeah. Trans. Push back on the pro-trans movement, I guess, is the most concise way to put it. Yes. And she does this podcast with J.K. Rowling and Ted Sarandos listens to it. And he's at a dinner party with her and he tells her how much he liked her podcast. and I just think it's like all of the right people are paying attention to her. The right people, meaning the people who are in positions of power. And she's kind of this novelty. I've noticed this whenever I drop into L.A. It's still weird that people in L.A. are still sort of impressed or curious about New York media people for some reason.
12:46Totally. It's very funny. I mean, it's really an industry town, and there's a line in the piece that they're like exotic animals, which multiple people noted to me in my reporting, And, you know, someone—
12:57Peter Kafka:And they kind of want the validation. As much as they'll complain about New York and old media or whatever, they very much care about the New York Times and Vanity Fair and sort of old guard publications. And if you read the New York Review of Books and you're in L.A., you're sort of this intense academic. You know, it's just not—it's just seen in a different way. And all these people, you know, the group who goes to the Grazer Salons, for example, they have their little obsessions. They'll move from anything from Buddhism to transcendental meditation to lifetime imprisonment, and they'll sort of go topic to topic.
13:27And I think in a way they also do that with people. And I feel like Barry was this sort of perfect avatar for them to both channel their frustrations. And she also created this safe space. Like she is very open. I think she's a master debater in the sense that you can debate with her and you're not going to walk away being really upset.
13:44Peter Kafka:She's exceptionally charismatic is another thing I think people don't get from the outside. Yeah. I've talked to her briefly a couple times. She's a lot of fun to hang out with. She's so fun. You can imagine why she'd be fun to go to a party with and listen to. Yeah. And she's also, like a lot of people described her as a great hang. And I think, you know, there are a lot of journalists who take themselves really seriously and who can't sort of turn it off. And she really can. She is fun and funny and warm. And she's also deeply relatable and human. And I think there aren't a lot of journalists who can sort of, you know, schmooze in that kind of room and do so in a way that is very natural.
14:23She is sort of like a master social operator. Not to say that that's totally calculated, but that's just who she is.
14:29Peter Kafka:Yeah, it's you are born with that kind of personality and then you can refine it and figure out how to use it. But it's not everyone has it. She has it. And again, I cannot underscore enough how much the mogul class loves her. I was just pulling out some of the names from your piece. You mentioned Brian Grazer, Bobby Kotick you mentioned, Bill Maher from HBO, Richard Plepler, who used to run HBO, Sherry Redstone, who owned Paramount until very recently, Donna Langley, who runs NBCUniversal, Matthias Doffner, who owns Axel Springer, where I work at Business Insider, Mark Andreessen, Silicon Valley bigwig, funds her eventually.
15:09Peter Kafka:David Sachs, another Silicon Valley bigwig, funds her. He's now a prime member of the Trump White House. Lauren Sanchez, Jeff Bezos, they end up going to their wedding. What is the thing that makes her so attractive to moguls in particular and to these big titans? Because there's lots of people who have views that are similar or along the same lines. There's something about what she's doing they are resonating with. I think she was sort of one of the first people to say, you know, what's going on is crazy. Like she was the same. But at the same time, great credentials. Columbia educated. She's from a, you know, she's one of four from a normal Pittsburgh family.
15:53And she also was credentialed by the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. So as much as these places are railing against it, she's sort of in a perfect position to be like, I was part of that for a minute.
16:01Peter Kafka:I've been there. I can tell you what's going on. Yeah, and it's not OK. And so she validated for a lot of people their concerns, their fears about what was going on. And then she also offered an alternative. I think people are, you know, whether in L.A. or even Silicon Valley, like I think the Valley was very much looking for an alternative source of media. And the Free Press was sort of this perfect mix because there were some normal report, you know, like mid-level reporters. But then they also got these huge names to contribute. And it just made the rounds. Also, I do think timing in terms of pandemic, people are much more on their computers.
16:38People are online. People are just consuming in a different way.
16:42Peter Kafka:And maybe I would argue more skeptical about the establishment than they had been a few years earlier. You're looking around like who's in charge of COVID? What's actually going on? These masks rules don't make any sense. They change from day to day. The vaccine guidance were getting changes. No one really knows what's happening, but here's someone who has clarity. Yeah. And what I will say is also, I think it was a crazy five years, you know, going from leaving the Times to becoming, you know, for her company to be purchased for$150 million and running CBS. But I also think a lot of this was a long time coming.
17:15Like, she didn't just come in as, you know, the sub-stacker at her kitchen table. She had a whole network of connections that she had been cultivating for years. And she had already positioned herself. She wrote in 2019 this book, How to Fight Antisemitism. And she had so she had already positioned herself as someone, you know, on that speaking circuit, someone who she had at that point already declared herself openly Zionist. And so then when October 7th happens, she is perfectly positioned to sort of come in and be like, I know about this. I can talk to you about this. It's not just parachuting in.
17:52She's like, I wrote this book. I've been I've cared deeply about, you know, Israel and Judaism for years. And so at that point, it's just like all of these things, like I was saying, it's just timing. I mean, it's luck and timing and hard work, whatever. But I think she just kept being an answer in a lot of ways to all these frustrations and anxieties.
18:15Peter Kafka:Someone smart described her once as having the wind at her back. Yeah. And I think about that a lot. I think about, you know, how the political culture has changed and it's sort of in many ways to her benefit over the last of those five years you're talking about. Yeah, a lot of things broke her way. We'll be right back with Charlotte Klein. But first, a word from a sponsor.
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20:40Peter Kafka:And we're back. Let's talk about the free press for a second. It was initially common sense and really was sort of her blog. Yes. And eventually she built it up. And one of the things I was fascinated by was watching her build a thing that was based around her personality, her ideas. You know, she would hold onstage conversations where she was the main attraction. Yeah, and debates. And debates. But she was explicitly trying to build something a little that wasn't just her, which I thought was actually a mistake. I thought, well, you're the thing that generates all this attention. Why don't you just be Barry Weiss, Inc.?
21:18Peter Kafka:That's what people want. But what's the Free Press House style? How would you describe the Free Press to someone who hasn't read it carefully? I think the Free Press is an opinion-heavy publication. I don't think it's news. It's journalism. I mean, it is news, yeah. They will do some reported features. Would you say it's journalism, though? I don't really get into the what's journalism debate, but I mean, there's definitely opinion. Yeah. But there's also reported. There is reported. But I think that they I mean, this is something that came up a lot of my reporting where the free press professes to be, you know, ideologically neutral and that they are sort of a place for the politically homeless.
22:04But it does have an ideology. It just sort of buries ideology.
22:08Peter Kafka:so that ideology is anti-woke anti-dei um and there's some parts where it gets really sticky right like a supposedly pro-free speech right but definitely in the second trump era has been much quieter about the excesses of the trump administration when it comes to silencing palestinian demonstrators on campus etc and they have different you know it's not all one thing but I think generally it strikes that tone. And the other thing that I've noticed, at least for a while, was, hey, everyone said this bad thing happened to this person. It's usually a black person, not always. But liberals made this person a hero.
22:50Peter Kafka:But actually, it turns out things are more complicated. Maybe that person's a bad person. They did a version of that with George Floyd. Maybe George Floyd wasn't killed by the cops. A lot of stuff that you wouldn't normally see in mainstream press, they would argue because mainstream press can't handle the truth. Right. Other people say, no, this is just shoddy reporting. That's why it's not here. Right. Yeah. And I think that, you know, it's funny, but she also, she has her podcast, honestly. That was one that launched, you know, very early on when it was still common sense. And so in that way, she was still, and she was writing and commissioning and very involved.
23:26But she, I think that podcast was also very important because her skill, I think, really is as an interviewer. I mean, we can talk about whether that is translating now, but I think that she is part of the draw. She got these people. She has this amazing Rolodex. She gets these great contributors. She gets people on her podcast like Cuban and Eric Schmidt and Kim Kardashian and Sheryl Sandberg. But she's also, you know, building slowly a team of people to sort of do this kind of work. It's like her vision just keeps building and building.
24:00Peter Kafka:How does she get to CBS News? I think most people heard that David Ellison, who was negotiating to acquire Paramount, was talking to her in the summer of 2025. You've reported that these discussions were happening much earlier. How did that discussion start? Well, I think an important thing that we haven't yet talked about is Sun Valley, which is, you know, the billionaire confab that happens every year in Sun Valley, Idaho. And I think that's where she really cemented a lot of her relationships with these moguls and met new ones. So Sun Valley is this mogul conference, supposedly where some deals actually get done, but it's also just kind of a summer camp for billionaires, famously.
24:39Peter Kafka:Press is not allowed. They are literally roped off on the outside and have to shout questions and they're mostly ignored. But some press, like Andrew Ross Sorkin from CNBC and The Times, gets inside and they get to moderate these conversations. And then Barry Weiss is led in as one of these moderators, which is a real sort of stamp of you are now part of the establishment. And the Sun Valley Conference is hosted by Allen & Co, run by Herb Allen III, who was a huge champion for Weiss. So I think that conference is really important. But notably, Ellison is not a part of that world. He doesn't go to Sun Valley.
25:15I mean, he did in 2024, but he doesn't go to Sun Valley. He's not in the L.A. social scene.
25:20Peter Kafka:He's a Hollywood producer, but he's kind of aside from it a little bit. He's not part of the mix. And she had not. So she had not met him or run into him at these salons or dinner parties or anything like that. But I think that they're all very related, which is that her product is reaching an echelon of people. And, of course, Ellison is, you know, reading it and sort of absorbing the importance of it and why it matters at this time. And, you know, he had something that didn't make it in the piece was that they had actually been introduced, you know, over email a year or two before. But, you know, just in a casual capacity.
25:57And then Ellison, you know, the Skydance Paramount deal is expected to close. And Ellison is looking for someone to remake CBS.
26:07Peter Kafka:So let's pause there. This is I think you said this is December 2024. They meet. Yes. So this is while he is pursuing buying Paramount with his father's money. So he's one of the richest people in the world. Why does he want to remake CBS News? I've never heard prior to him buying Paramount him express any interest in news. Is this something he cares about? Does he care about CBS News and its future and what happens to it and how the news is reported? Or is there some other motivation? I mean, this is all speculation, but I think the broad consensus is that he wants to, well, first of all, they want to curry relations with the Trump administration, not only to get the deal approved, but also just to have that working relationship.
26:57Peter Kafka:Right, that Donald Trump has been reelected at this point. So he is going to be involved in some sort of regulatory capacity, even though maybe he shouldn't be. It would be good to have a conservative running CBS News. That way he would respond to that? A conservative or a centrist or at least just a change, right? It's like Ellison is putting his stamp on it. So you believe that he is thinking sort of that far ahead, like this would be good to have her there because we're going to want Donald Trump on our side. I mean, even who I mean, who's to say if it was that calculated? But regardless, I just think it's interesting that he's obviously he's thinking about what he's going to do with CBS if the deal closes.
27:32And he sees and he's a fan of the free press and he feels like he wants to work with Barry in some capacity. And so they meet in December in New York. And at that point, the conversation is sort of like, I'm a big fan of the free press. I admire what you've built. Let's find a way to work together in some capacity. And, you know, I don't think there's any I don't think anyone feels like he bought the free press because it was a smart people feel like he bought the free press for Barry. It's an acqui-hire. Yes.
28:00Peter Kafka:Sort of. Sort of. And and then the conversations progress. And at that point, you know, this is January 2025, early 2025. Other interest is coming in. Axel Springer is interested. There's like some loose interest from Murdoch world. But, you know, by the summer, by the time that Barry and Nellie are at the Bezos wedding, Ellison's offer is sort of the only one she's really seriously entertaining. And then in Sun Valley, you know, she's in the room with Ellison and her lawyers and Nellie and they're sort of figuring out, you know, like pressure testing the situation. Like, what would this look like?
28:33And do you really want what you say you want in terms of do you really want me to shake this place up and sort of testing out different scenarios? Would I have your support behind me if I did X, Y and Z?
28:43Peter Kafka:And do you want me to run CBS News? So at that time, at that point, the discussion was Ellison will buy the free press and Barry Weiss will. And I remember the reporting at the time was like, she's going to consult. Right. People weren't exactly sure. And I remember getting some pushback. Well, no, she wouldn't be managing anything. But of course, now she is managing CBS News. She's reporting directly to David Ellison. Right. Not George Cheeks or Jeff Schell or even Tom Sobrowski. There's a whole bunch of experienced television people that normally the head of CBS News would be working with. Yeah.
29:22Peter Kafka:She's got a direct pipeline to the owner instead. Right. Which is unusual. Do you think that's something she wanted? Do you think that's something the other CBS executives said, you know what, David Ellison, you can handle the Barry Weiss experience on your own. We're going to step aside. No, I think that was something that was negotiated between her and Ellison early. Like, I think it was always about I think that was just not even a given, but it was sort of like if I'm going to come, it's she's not going to report to. I don't want to be layered under other people. And I would assume that's part of the sort of pressure testing situation conversations that went on, which is like, you know, will you stand behind me and will I have the authority to do what I want to do?
29:59And you would think she would only have that authority if she's reporting directly.
30:02Peter Kafka:What's your what's your sense of the hey, CBS News is a television operation. None of what we've discussed prior to this involves Barry Weiss's experience in TV. She doesn't have any. She'd been on TV. She'd been, you know, Bill Maher's show a few times. Yeah. Is that that's is that a selling point? Like, hey, I'm coming in with no preconceived notions and I'll shake things up and I'm not going to be wedded to tradition. Or is it this could be a problem and we're going to need to sort of accommodate that in some way? I don't know if it's a selling point, but I don't think it's a deterrent. I think CBS needed to shake up.
30:36That's the part. I mean, there's a lot of criticism about her out there. I'm honestly shocked. It's been such a feeding frenzy to the point where it's hard to assess at times what she's doing, because everyone is just so obsessed with criticizing, mostly criticizing it. But I don't, you know, look, nobody was talking about CBS before. I mean, we talked about 60 Minutes, 60 Minutes on a Raider, but really no one -
30:54Peter Kafka:No one talks about any broadcast TV news. Like, it doesn't really matter. I'm sorry. And so I think it's sort of funny that now everyone is like, she's killing this venerable brand and whatever. But I think the bigger question is like, is she going to accelerate its decline or is she going to turn it around into something totally different from what it was and maybe give it a chance at surviving? You had an aside in there that I thought was interesting saying that she slash everyone involved knows that TV slash TV news is going away, that the future of CBS news is not going to be on television.
31:27Peter Kafka:It's going to be some kind of digital product if it is successful. How do you think she is thinking about that? I think she never expected to be in this position to have a job like this. I don't think she was an avid consumer of CBS before, for example. I think she, I mean, based on just what we've seen so far, you know, she booked a sit down with Trump. She hosted a town hall with Erica Kirk, which very interestingly she did. She hosted, she promoted herself talking about the fact that she was going to be hosting this. She is now an on-air personality at CBS News. Both an on-air personality and, you know.
32:06The boss. The boss. So that is a very interesting relationship. And I don't really know how that's going to shake out in the future. I think that's going to be a particularly interesting thing to watch.
32:13Peter Kafka:We'll be right back with Charlotte Klein. But first, a word from the sponsor.
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33:54And we're back.
33:56Peter Kafka:Let's talk about the 60 Minutes Seacott story, which, again, broke around the time your story was published. so your story doesn't reference it. We don't need to relitigate what happened there. I think people are still, frankly, unclear about what actually happened there. But she pulled a story that had been promoted. She pulled it basically hours before it was supposed to go on air, or maybe a day or two before it was supposed to go on air. She says the story needed more work. It needed some on-air conversation with someone from the White House, like Stephen Miller. And it didn't advance the ball.
34:29Peter Kafka:It didn't advance the ball. All the people who put the story together said this is obviously you're obviously doing this to curry favor with the Trump administration because David Ellison wants favors from the Trump administration. He's trying to buy Warner Brothers Discovery. It's a lot of supposition. It's a lot of dot connecting could go either way. Do you think that she was surprised at the blowback? Her decision to pull a story days before or hours before it was supposed to go on air about a politically charged subject would generate all that attention? Yeah, I think I well, I think just the scrutiny in general has probably been a big change for her.
35:05Not to say that she didn't get scrutiny before, but just sort of your every move. Like with the free press, you know, her and Nellie could sort of intervene at the last minute and shake things up. But people weren't monitoring it in the same way. And also, whatever meddling they did, it works, right? Like, you know, however much you want to criticize Nellie and Barry for maybe at times blowing up things at the last minute of the free press, the free press sold for$150 million. Obviously, it's worth whatever someone wants to pay for it. But, you know, people are loathe to, I think, criticize how she ran it, given.
35:34Peter Kafka:Right. I guess the push, the flip of that is running a fairly small but popular website. Very different. With a handful of opinion pieces a day. It's very different than running a news operation. And literally just how things are produced and distributed. Yes. And I think that, I mean, I agree there's still a lot of uncertainty around what actually happened with the segment. I think the fact that she didn't attend the five screenings that aired, you know, internally before it being completed doesn't look great. I think but I also think people are just waiting for her to mess up. And so there's like, you know, it's sort of like the hounds descending on her.
36:11Peter Kafka:I think I think there's two different things, right? There's a lot of anger about her and what she represents ideologically. And then I think there's real concern about David Ellison and Larry Ellison, his father, and the Trump administration and their coziness. Yeah. And so I think there'd be scrutiny on anyone running CBS News under any circumstances when the Ellisons are explicitly saying we have a good relationship with the Trump administration. That's why Warner Brothers shareholders should take our deal instead of Netflix. We are in with the Trump administration. When your owner says that, of course, of course, what your employees do is going to be scrutinized carefully.
36:52Yes. And I think that she I would assume, you know, this is my own opinion, but I would assume this has been a big wake up call in a lot of ways. Just in terms of, like you said, the difference between running something like the Free Press and CBS and also just the level of scrutiny for the reasons that you.
37:08Peter Kafka:I had heard from someone who was circling these deals that she seemed to have a sense last summer that she didn't have anything close to the management experience that you would need to run the CBS news operations and was looking for people to help with that. Did you get a sense of that? Yeah, I think I think she's looking to surround herself with people who have experience. And, you know, it's not like she is, you know, cleaning house. And I think she is surrounded by people with television experience. I think the bigger question is the intervention and also, you know, like what actually happened with this report.
37:42And it just looks bad. It looks bad.
37:46Peter Kafka:So we've seen that 60 Minutes. If you want to, you can see the 60 Minutes piece that didn't run because bizarrely it ended up on Canadian TV. I didn't watch it. Did you watch it? And then on the Internet, no. The consensus was it's a fine 60 Minutes piece. Could she have improved it? Maybe. Right. Do you think that this constant scrutiny of her continues indefinitely? Do you think people move on? We're recording this a couple days after the U.S. is basically colonizing Venezuela. Is this a media story that we move away from because it's not shiny? Or do you think there's something about her and the confluence of her and the Ellisons and Trump that is going to make this a story we pay attention to for a long time?
38:31I think it's a story we pay attention to for a long time, at least, you know, enough to see what happens with CBS. Tony DiCoppo had his first, you know, anchoring of CBS Evening News last night. And there were some, you know, hiccups and people were seizing on that. I don't know if that level of attention persists.
38:47Peter Kafka:That seems crazy. I literally can't tell you who the anchors of NBC and ABC are or how their first days as anchors went. And yes, I agree with you that a lot of like every banana peel that she slips on is going to be taken as an important symbol. Was reportedly in the studio for Tony's first broadcast. Like, shouldn't she be? I mean, I think that's a totally normal thing. But I do think, you know, it's important, A, because generally this sort of dying linear product of televised news, it's dying. So if she can come in with no TV experience and make this something that people care about, maybe other executives will be looking to see, you know, could we tap so-and-so who has no experience but seems like a visionary, maybe in the same way people think Barry Weiss is.
39:33So that could maybe be a blueprint. I think the question of, like, is it going to work is a very interesting one because what is success in this current media environment?
39:44Peter Kafka:Does it mean increased TV ratings? If you're running CBS, if you own Paramount, you would like that to happen because that means revenue in the short term. But is it also not your future? Yeah. And is it more YouTube views or is it, I don't know, are they reaching a younger audience? So I don't really know what their definition of success is right now. And that's why I think it will continue to be a story, because we're just going to see it play out. But I think more likely than not, people will stop being so obsessed. I don't think people will stop being obsessed with her as a figure, because it's like you said, it's what she symbolizes.
40:15It's sort of like the, you know, revenge of the anti-woke class.
40:20Peter Kafka:And she has also made herself that symbol, right? Yeah. It's not like she's this executive that you've never seen before. She is putting herself on television. Yeah, she's not behind the scenes exclusively. Possibly.
40:33But she's young too, right? She's 41. So she's not going anywhere.
40:40Peter Kafka:Does that mean we're going to have you back on to talk about Barry Weiss? Yeah, I hope. I hope. Let's have you back on to talk about another story. How about that? Okay, perfect. Charlotte Klein from New York Magazine. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Thanks again to Charlotte Klein. Again, you should read her profile of Barry Weiss. It is a Google search away. Thanks again to Charlotte Silver, who produces this show. She's exceptionally patient with me. She does not get upset when I continually refer to her as Charlotte Klein. Thanks to our advertisers, who bring you this show for free. And thanks to you guys for listening and writing.
41:11Peter Kafka:See you soon.
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From the publisher
How, exactly, did Bari Weiss become the head of CBS News?
We know that David Ellison, who bought Paramount last year, hired her — and bought The Free Press, the publication she started a few years earlier. But how did she get on Ellison’s radar? And why are so many media moguls, like Ellison, huge fans?
New York magazine’s Charlotte Klein knows. She recently published an excellent profile of Weiss that tracks her ascent over the last few years, and I wanted to talk to her about it. It’s a story about networking, talent, and timing, and I think it tells us a lot about where we’re at right now.
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