465 Growing Up With Radical Islam with Işık Abla

0:00Thanks for pressing play. This is Christopher Lochhead, Follier Different, and we are the oddcast for entrepreneurs, marketers, category designers, and really anyone who appreciates the power of being different. And I am your host. Now, we're going to talk about some powerful stuff today. And before we start, I need you to know I'm no fan of radical evil, no matter where it comes from. You see, one of my best friends, a man of Indian descent who grew up an American, a man I call a brother, was brutally murdered by four white, radical, evil Christians. Christians who are the product of California's Lancaster Baptist Church.

0:42And you should also know I'm a Christian. And for the record, over the last four years or so, I've invested in two startups founded by Muslim American founders. So now you know where I stand. I love legendary people wherever they come from. and I'm no fan of evil, wherever it comes from. Okay, today, a topic that affects everybody in the United States and, frankly, the Western world. The spread of radical Islam into the Western world and the marriage of radical socialists with radical Islamists. Nowhere is the ramification of this more painfully obvious than in the UK. Some say somewhere between 10 ,000 and maybe up to over 100 ,000 girls and women have been raped by extreme Muslim rape gangs over the last 20 years or so.

1:38And the radical socialists did almost nothing about it. As a matter of fact, the free press called this, quote, the biggest peacetime crime and cover-up in British history. Now, as we speak right now in France and Italy, there are riots on the streets. At first, we were told these were students rising up looking for better circumstances. Well, now all of a sudden, it doesn't seem like it's just that, not at all. The rioters are waving flags from other countries and other causes, And there's chants of al-Akbar making it clear the protests in France and Italy that are happening right now are about a lot more than just angry students.

2:23These rioters are rioting against the West. The combo platter of militant anti-capitalists, militant anti-fascists, and militant anti-Islamists. This marriage of socialist and Islamist is pretty strong in Europe. and Europe could be the ghost of Christmas future for the United States. Today on this episode, our guest is the fascinating and deeply human Dr. Ishak Abla. Dr. Abla was born in Turkey. She was raised in a strict, devout Muslim household. Her youth was shaped by horrible domestic abuse, civil unrest and instability in Turkey and strict, strict religious instruction in a religious environment.

3:14In 1996, Ishak fled an abusive marriage and moved to the United States seeking safety, seeking freedom, wishing for her own personal agency and American dream. Well, Dr. Abla ended up deep in personal trauma and depression, But she also experienced an extraordinary spiritual, personal transformation in the late 90s. And that's when she converted from Islam to Christianity. Today, Dr. Abla is an ordained Christian minister, and she's the founder of her own international Christian broadcasting and teaching organization. Her satellite television, radio, and social media programs are broadcast across six continents in several languages, including Turkish, Arabic, Farsi, and of course, English.

4:05Her most recent book is called Heavenly Whispers, Daily Moments with the Father to Restore Your Soul. This is a legendary conversation that I am happy to share with you. So now, as Joy Ramon said, hey-ho, let's go.

4:37Well, Pastor Ashok, it sure is wonderful to see you. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's an absolute pleasure. I've been looking forward to our conversation for quite some time since your folks reached out. Now, if it's okay with you, if it's not, you let me know. I thought maybe we could start with going back to your childhood in Turkey a little bit and maybe tell me what it was like for you as a young girl growing up. Would that be a good place to start? Absolutely. Yes, definitely. I was born and raised in Istanbul, Turkey. I was raised in a Divat Muslim home. We had very radical Islamists in our family, as well as some secular Muslims in our family.

5:24I grew up during the Civil War years seeing a lot of bloodshed, people killing each other. My mother had several forced miscarriages and abortions that I was at early age, was her first responder, six years old, seven years old. I hate to interrupt you, but could you, if it's okay, maybe elaborate on what exactly does that mean? Yes, yes. She has a total of eight. And I was the only person next to her. I was the only child at that time. And these were forced, that is to say they were abortions? Or what was happening? Some of them, she got afterwards medical care, but I was the only person when she was bleeding and losing babies.

6:11And you and her went through this eight times? Yes. Yes. And what was the cause of this? Because my father was a very successful businessman, but we had a very dysfunctional family structure. My mother was a housewife. My father usually left us or abandoned us to be with his other mistresses and other women. And my mother was in depression. So every time she was pregnant, she didn't want the babies. For a long time, 10 years later, I had a brother. I still have a 14-year younger brother. But in between, there are six. First of all, four of them were miscarriages. Four of them were abortions. But even her miscarriages were forced.

7:02And was she forcing the miscarriages? Yes, yes. She was? Yes. because her life was very tragic as a woman, and she was abused mentally, emotionally, and she was in depression, and she couldn't handle pregnancy. In the meantime, I was a girl, and I was the only child, and she called herself barren to her friends because I was a girl. Hmm. First of all, I'm very, very sorry to hear this. Thank you. Very, very sorry. What ultimately has happened for your mother? She was on antidepressants. They were illegal. So I was emptying the little capsules, making sure that she wasn't overdosing herself. And she was really in a very difficult cage, so to say, in her life that she couldn't get out of it for a long time.

8:04And is she still with us? Yes. As a matter of fact, my father passed away three years ago, and she went to be with the Lord. He received Jesus as his Lord and Savior. Then my mother moved to the United States to live with me, almost 80 years old, with her burqa, praying five times a day, very devout Muslim. and I have a Middle East broadcast. When I was doing that broadcast, my mother surrendered her life to Jesus Christ and took her burqa weeping and became a completely new creation. Wow, that's incredible. And I'm not sure if your folks told you, but I'm a Christian as well. And pastor, I would like to speak with you about your conversion.

8:50And now it sounds like your mother's and maybe others in your life's conversion. So you were a very young girl as this was happening. It happened on a very regular basis. Yes, yes. What else was happening during your childhood, Pastor? Because I was a war child. So those were Civil War years. I grew up seeing arms and legs flying, and I couldn't sleep at night because of gunshots and bombings in Istanbul. We lived with fear. So a lot of trauma happened to me. And during those times, I turned to Allah for answers. He was the only God presented in the nation at that time. And then I started going to Korean courses, and I was brainwashed against Israel, America.

9:44Basically, Jews and Christians were the biggest devils, they told us. And they brainwashed us when what Western calls terrorists were actually heroes and soldiers for God. They were freedom fighters. And I start believing in that lie, and I wanted to become one of them, as a matter of fact. And they started telling different stories about Israel, for us to hate Israel, for us to hate America. And they told us that during the Koran course, I was 12 years old at that time, becoming a suicide bomber was one of the highest level of being a missionary for Allah. And those were the things that started shaping my faith at that time.

10:34And I've heard you say, Pastor, that at one point you actually wanted to become a suicide bomber. Is that correct? Yes, correct. And how old were you when you thought you wanted to be a suicide bomber. I was 12 years old. 12. Yes. Now, I did not grow up under Sharia law, and I know a lot about it through reading it. I have visited the Muslim world and the Middle East. I have Muslim friends. I actually have Muslim entrepreneurs whose businesses I've invested in and support in my work. So I have a flavor for what Sharia might be, But of course, I have no direct experience of it. And I think most people in the Western world are somewhat similar.

11:17And so maybe paint a picture for me, in addition to what you've already shared about what was it like for you as a young girl and then as a teenage girl and as you became a young adult, etc. All of these things are happening. What are the impacts of Sharia law as you're growing up, Pastor? Thank you for asking me this, because Turkey at that time wasn't under Sharia law, but Sharia law still ruled in the families. Sharia law still ruled in our society. And when we talk about Sharia, we are basically talking about superior law that is imparted and ordered by Allah based on the Quranic verses, living a lifestyle that is not—that lifestyle is going by the law of the land.

12:05Like, for example, in America, we have constitution and we have constitutional rights and protection. So Sharia law is superior to that in radical Muslim faith and ideology. So I grew up with that kind of belief. For example, even in the Bible, John chapter 8, when adulterous woman was caught in the act of adultery, Jesus said, let the one without a sin cast the first stone. But according to Sharia law, that woman has to be stoned to death. And whether it is in your court law, which wasn't in Turkey, stoning, but still it could be practiced because it is in a society that a woman can be. And there are many cases that they are stoned to death.

12:54So I grew up with that kind of faith that if Sharia law is saying something, it is above the law of the government. And I believe that. Thank you so much. And again, I don't want to talk about anything that you don't want to talk about. Thank you. And I do have some questions. So about stoning. Did you ever see this? Did you ever know anybody that this had happened to? Was this ever around you? Yeah, lynching was very normal. And stoning I have seen. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Sorry, Pastor. You just said lynching was very normal. Yes, yes. There were people lynched. And when you say lynched, what do you mean?

13:35Just so I'm 100 % clear. Like a corporate punishment of execution right there at that very moment, killing people. And you witnessed this? I have seen people's throats were cut in front of me during the civil war by groups because that was very gore and bloody. I grew up with that kind of environment. As a little girl, as a teenager, you're seeing these things. Yes. As a matter of fact, I have seen people being stoned. I didn't see the entire thing as a movie because crowds were so big and I was so little. But people started throwing stones at each other and at people. I have seen it many times.

14:16It was our familiar. It was our normal thing. Then military, then coup came to Turkey and then stopped the civil war and it became more peaceful. But until, of course, I came to the United States and I met Jesus, I never met peace in my life. I see. And one of the things I find interesting in the Western world right now is the number of women and people who are LGBTQ who support some of these Muslim radicals, be it Hamas, be it Hezbollah, be it the IRGC in Iran, etc. And so if I was a female person who was pro those things, or if I was a gay person or a trans person who was pro those things, what might you say to me about what life is like for women and gay and trans people under Sharia?

15:24Well, first of all, there's so much contradiction, even in your question that you're asking for. There are feminist groups, there are gay rights groups, and they are supporting Hamas. They are shouting Hezbollah. And it makes for me no sense because here is the thing that I just want to clarify. I didn't learn what I am talking about is from textbooks. I lived it. And I have a book coming with the same title. I lived this. This was my life. And I want people to hear me when we are talking about Sharia, when we are talking about living according to Koran. Women have no rights. One man can take five wives and two women's even shahadet, we call it, their witness is equal to one man.

16:16So from the very beginning, very get-go, women's values are diminished and minimized. There are no gay rights in the Muslim world. There are Muslim countries that if somebody is just found to be gay or known as gay without even asking him, Just because, you know, from their appearance, their body language, the way that they talk, if they are a little bit feminine and they are labeled as gay without even they are confessing it, they can be executed right at that very moment. That is why as a former radical Muslim, it's very mind-battling for me how feminist organizations and groups can support groups that are saying that basically an 80-year-old girl can be married to a 60-year-old man.

17:03And that is Sharia. Sharia, the moment her family accepts that she's like a piece of property to be sold. How a feminist, I am not a feminist. I believe men are equally valuable. I don't believe they are equal, but equally valuable in the eyes of God. But still, I respect feminists, of course, that they are seeking their rights and freedom. And how they can, that is my mind-buzzling thing, in America especially, can support these groups that are minimizing the value, worth, and identity of women. And I see that right now and it's really, it doesn't make sense. I may call this very stupid. Thank you for that.

17:48One of the things that breaks my heart horribly is how the United States left Afghanistan. Yes. And of course, we were there for 20 something years. And in that time, I have Afghani friends. There's Afghani entrepreneurs that I know who are wonderful people. and an entire generation of people and women and girls grew up in a more westernized environment where they could go to school and become doctors and become successful and such. And one of the things that breaks my heart is since the United States left Afghanistan, it appears if the reports I read are correct and some of my friends I talked to are correct, that it has gone all the way back and maybe might even be a little bit worse.

18:35And those girls and those women who we helped protect and create an environment for opportunity have now gone back to a world of suffering. I'm curious what you think about that. I 100 % agree with you because when we were in Afghanistan, first of all, wherever America enters, especially talking about our time, I have been living in America for 30 years. Whenever, during my lifetime, America entered in Afghanistan, and now we are talking about Iran, and before Iraq, America made a difference. Their freedom came to those countries. Girls like me could go to schools, and they could feel safe. There was freedom for women.

19:23There was rights for women. and family structures start becoming healthier because a man couldn't kill their wives or hurt their wives. I interview people also on my broadcast from those Muslim countries that when a girl raped, I have one interview, 15-year-old girl raped. She went, she's sent to prison. She was sent to prison for getting raped. Not only her rapist. I mean, we are talking about this is a point of evil. But when America came to Afghanistan, made a huge difference in Afghanistan. And Afghanistan is one of my primary countries that I preach the gospel. I have seen it with my own eyes.

20:04Many people had the liberty to choose Christ, had the liberty to start worshiping. But that changed because another government came and completely nullified what happened. Now they are trying to do it with Iraq. It happened with Iraq. How ISIS came about because we left too soon and we cannot leave the mindset and the arena that we are trying to clean up in a few years. This will take generations of help to those countries. So whenever we leave, of course, these terrorist groups start forming because these cultures, they don't know true freedom. There's so much there. So much. Pastor, I'm one of these people who radical, horrored injustice in the world affects me.

20:55And I don't know if your folks told you, but one of my closest friends seven years ago was murdered in a home invasion, robbery, kidnapping, murder. and so while I have not grown up in your situation far from it and I can't relate to your situation, I do understand extreme pain from horrible, horrible acts of murder. When I hear you talk about the rapes, it's very, very upsetting to me and I'm sure it is to you. That said, if you're okay with it, could you sort of explain, and if this is an inappropriate characterization, by all means tell me, the sort of rape culture that it sounds like you're describing, would you call it that?

21:43Yes, because women, they don't have a vote to decide for their lives. And it is almost like spiritually legal, according to Sharia. I am not talking about just like everybody can go outside and rape. And also, there are so many sects and so many teachings that believe that if a Muslim man rapes a Christian woman, there's no sin, there's no condemnation about that. So it is completely permissible for a Muslim man to rape an infidel. It is almost like it's a good deed for them, not a sin. And when you are looking at women's value, and women is being less than an animal, or like a cow, treated like a cow, or valued less than a property.

22:28Of course, they have every right to do anything. And we are seeing this Sharia law promotes this. That is the danger. And that is the warning that I am passionate about giving this message to America. And I want to thank you for what you are doing. And I'm sorry for your friend, by the way. It's very heartbreaking to hear that violence is violence, no matter. But women has no rights. And when they go to court and they want to bring Sharia to America right now. They've said it publicly. They're very declarative about it. We are bringing Sharia law to America. If they say it, they say it right into the camera.

23:05I have tons of videos. Yes. Tons of videos, tons of evidences that they are shouting Sharia is going to come to America. We're going to remove constitution and America is going to be under Sharia law. And that means our daughters, our granddaughters, our children, our mothers, they are not going to live anymore in a safe place, including these feminist groups that are supporting this ideology. It's terrifying to think of that it's possible here in America and very upsetting to think that maybe it's possible. Now, you've used the term, Pastor, radical Muslim multiple times. You used it in reference to yourself, I believe, if I'm not mistaken.

23:50Yes. And so I'm curious, are you distinguishing radical Muslims from other types of Muslims? Or why do you use that term as opposed to some other term? Thank you for asking me this because, so there is a misunderstanding in the Western world. What is good Muslim? what is a radical Muslim and who is who. We call in the Western world good Muslims who are peaceful, who are practicing their own religion in their houses, just like Buddhist people, just like Hindus. And it's perfectly fine. America was never built on oneness, diversity, and welcome all religions, all faiths, all people. But when we are talking about radical Islam, radical Islam is following Sharia law, following what the Quran says to the dot.

24:42And that means it cannot coexist with other religions. It cannot coexist with other faiths. Sharia claims superiority to constitution, superiority to any Western law. And that is a danger of Sharia. And that is when I say when I was a radical Muslim, there was a time in my life I wasn't, but there was a time, And majority of time, I was a radical Muslim because I believe Sharia law had to rule over the world. That was my faith. And that is why that kind of mindset and ideology, that becomes an ideology, not faith anymore, that someone is peacefully practicing. But when we are talking about Sharia's superiority, radical Islam, radical Islam only finds peace when somebody is on a sword point or a gun point and they have to say Shahida, that Allah is their God and they become a Muslim.

25:37And without that, they will never find peace. And that is when I call radical Islam, that is the radical Islam is an ideology, not personal faith. I see. Thank you for that. Sure. I also want to let you know, Pastor, four evil men killed my friend. and those four men, young men at the time in their twenties were raised in the Lancaster, California Baptist church. Two of them are brothers. One of them is married to the brother's sister. So a brother-in-law and the fourth one is a best friend. They all grew up in the Lancaster Baptist church. Their father is a minister and a missionary, a Christian.

26:22I am a devout Christian. they murdered him for religious reasons. One of the four killers took the stand and talked about those religious reasons. It made me sick. And so I just want you to know that it's very clear to me, evil can be cloaked in anything. Absolutely. And radical, right-wing, hateful Christians, my friend was Indian from India. They hated him because he was successful and they were not. And they robbed him and killed him because they, in part, hated the fact that a man from another country other than America, from India, came here with immigrant parents with nothing and became a successful entrepreneur and a multimillionaire.

27:17And those evil Christian bastards, sub-human garbage killed them. And for me, I see no distinction between that hate and perversion of Christianity and radical Muslim. Absolutely. So I want to ask you a tough question. Some people I hear say, well, listen, the problem is actually not Sharia, not, quote, radical Muslim. It's Islam itself. what do you say to those people well um first of all the story the true story that you lived you witness is very sad what happened to your indian friend and violence is a violence hate is hate evil is evil and we have to call that and i totally agree because i'm seeing so many ugly christianity as well and that ugly christianity is not doing good to anybody we have a lot of Muslim gay people that they write to our ministry and they became a Christian.

28:25They surrendered their lives to Jesus. Why? We don't address their gay lifestyle. We just disciple them in the Word of God. And I'm not here to convert anybody from Islam to Jesus or from a gay lifestyle to heterosexual lifestyle. Only God can speak to their hearts and they can do that. My job is to love them with love of Jesus Christ and speak the truth into their lives from the Word of God. The choice is their choice, first and foremost. When we come to this level of ugliness, this level of violence, we have to, even as a country, we have to condone this. And coming back to your question, it is so important for us to understand that, yes, there is a group of people.

29:13And my mother was one of them. She didn't believe in violence of Islam because there are so many, a lot of Muslims, first of all, 75 to 80 percent of the Muslims, they don't believe in violence. 25, 20 to 25 percent of Muslims are radical. But how many people it took to bring down Twin Towers? Not even 25 percent, not even one percent. So you can do a lot of harm. What happened to your friend? Four people. How many people were with Hamas that came on October 7th and, you know, raped and killed all these people and abducted so many people? A few thousand maybe? Exactly. So you don't need a lot of people.

29:57That is what I want people to understand. When we talk like this, you and I, we are actually not coming against Muslims. We love them so much. We want to help that 75 percent. I have invested my hard-earned after-tax dollars into companies founded by Muslims. Exactly. Because I think they're incredible. These individuals, not the fact that they're Muslims, the individuals in specific, I think are wonderful entrepreneurs. I believe that. And I was one of them. As soon as I came to America, I started a company. And I am coming from a secular business world. I was a chief financial officer and a CEO in the secular world.

30:37And what you are saying, actually, the jealousy is so real because I was self-made from scratch and my father was a businessman. So I totally am with you. We are not here against Muslims. We are not against those 75 percent really trying to practice their faith. I love them. I have a ministry for them. They even appreciate me speaking against Hamas, Hezbollah, terrorist groups, because their daughters, their children under this evil regime that they are suffering. They want to be liberated. And that is why we need to also differentiate. Islamic ideology says all the entire world has to be Muslim.

31:22But what kind of Muslim? like a terrorist level Muslim that infidels, cannot Jews and Christians or Hindus and atheists and agnostics, none of them can exist. They have to be under my dominancy. But peaceful Muslim says, just leave me alone. I want to pray five times a day in my home and I want to practice my religion. And there is nothing wrong with that. We are addressing right now radical Islamist ideology. That is what I want to warn America against Syria and Islamic ideology. Your friends are, I am sure, wonderful people. They sure seem like it to me. In addition, many people do not realize the largest Muslim country in the world is not in the Middle East.

32:08It's Indonesia. Exactly. And I have been to Indonesia many times. I'm a surfer. It's one of the greatest places in the world for surfing. and I have spent time with the Indonesian people there as a tourist. And I will tell you, when walking the streets of Padang, they don't see a lot of people who look like me. I'm about six feet tall and I'm bald and have tattoos and I weigh about 210 pounds. And people young and old come straight up to you and they want to talk. They speak English, some of them, and they're curious. You're a bit of a, not in so much of a negative way, but a bit of a circus freak.

32:45You're a curiosity. And of course, I've been surfing with many Indonesians because many of them are incredible surfers, as you might expect. And my personal experience in Indonesia is of one of being incredibly welcomed. And of course, I've traveled all throughout the Middle East and I've gotten drunk in Lebanon and had a great time downtown and the wonderful restaurants and bars and nightclubs. And so I've experienced these things in a Muslim world and felt very welcomed and not threatened and not ostracized or criticized or even in danger. As a matter of fact, in many cases, particularly the opposite.

33:29But sadly, the likelihood you and I of being able to have a wonderful dinner in downtown Tehran anytime soon is probably not very high now, is it yeah no no we i don't think that we can exist uh right now or we can be alive uh going to you know iran or any other uh very hot spots right now i am not able to go personally right and i i wish more of the middle east was more like say for example dubai yes where people are welcome and it's well it's maybe a tough place to live for some it's certainly much more welcoming than a lot of the rest of the Middle East. Do you think that's a fair statement?

34:11Oh, that's an absolutely fair statement. I think Dubai is right now the number one best country to live, especially for business people. And Dubai has its own culture. It's so much different than the rest of the Middle East, of course. But yes, it is one of the fascinating places to live in the world that many Americans may not know about it. Right. And the other thing many Americans might not realize, I have many Israeli friends. I've worked with many Israeli technology entrepreneurs. Most people don't realize that Israel is second to the United States in tech startups. Absolutely. And so if you're in the tech startup world, as I have been for 40 years, chances are you're going to do business with Israelis.

34:54And I've been to Israel many times and worked with many Israelis. And what people don't realize is prior to our current horrible war, Israelis would go to Dubai on vacation. Yes. And vice versa. Yes. Most people don't realize that, I don't have it off the top of my head, Pastor, but roughly what, 15, maybe even 20 % of Israel is Arab slash Muslim? Yes. Over a million people? Absolutely. There are Muslims in the Knesset in Israel. There are Muslim Supreme Court justices in Israel. So now you and I are speaking very close to what is the 25th anniversary, if you want to call it that, of the terror in New York and Washington and Pennsylvania of 9-11.

35:45Tell me about 9-11 and what it means to you and how you think about it. Thank you for asking me this. And thank you for sharing about Indonesia, also Lebanon and Dubai. I love Lebanon. I wish it was peaceful. I wish you and I could go out and have a party there tonight. I wish I could bring my wife. Yes, this wonderful country. The food, the culture. Yes. Yes. Yes, my managing director is Lebanese and he covered the war for 35 years. He just came back from Lebanon, from the Israeli border. It's so heartbreaking to see these countries. And the Lebanese people, some people in the West don't know.

36:24They're wonderful. They're smart. They're industrious. They're fun. They know how to live life and love life. They're entrepreneurial. And look, I don't want to be biased, but I think the men and women, many of them are insanely beautiful looking. They are. They are very beautiful people. I have a Lebanese friend, a male friend, and he's about as sexy as a man can be. I believe you. They are beautiful people. And I think mainstream media is doing a very bad job about turning people and cultures against each other. Like you said, in Israel, I have seen, I have friends. They are not Messianic Jews.

37:08They are Jews. And they are living peacefully with a lot of Arabs. And a lot of Arabs are doing businesses with them. But when we see things on the media, we are seeing on the news, we are seeing things, what they want to feed us, what they want to give us. And we start believing and that hatred is implanted in us. So that is the saddest part of it. I am sorry, I forgot your question. No, it's just fine. Yes. It's really about what 9-11 has meant to you. Had you already converted to Christianity on 9-11, Pastor? Yes. Yes. I came to America one year. I received Christ one year before 11. So I was one year old in Jesus when 9-11 happened.

37:56At that time, I was working at a CPA firm. So our boss called all of us, the team, to his office. Where were you in the world, Pastor, on 9-11? I was in Florida. You were in Florida? Florida. I was working for an accounting firm, and at that time, our boss called us to his office, and TV was on, and he was in shock. We were watching it on TV. Twin towers were falling. And as a new believer who found freedom and first-time peace in my life, it shook me to the core, because those were the things in Muslim-Islamist group meetings we would talk about. We would hail those terrorists as heroes, freedom fighters, and just the shock of I could be one of them, and I could consider it the greatest honor.

38:51But I was standing in front of TV as a new creation in Jesus Christ, staring at that scene, horrible, horrific scene. it was out of body experience for me and realizing until that moment probably I never got passionate about my people Muslims or I didn't I was indifferent at that time I had a great job great career and I was doing good in Christ I didn't want to do anything with Muslims at that time but that shock or brought me to a place of passion at that time and I sit in my under my breath. They need Jesus. So maybe let's go there. I know some people can be made uncomfortable with conversations about faith and pastor.

39:42I'm not one of those people. And so tell me about why Jesus and why Christianity? Thank you. First of all, why Jesus, why Christianity? It is not another religion for me. I didn't learn Islam. I learned Islam from textbooks, but I didn't learn Jesus from textbooks. Also, I learned Jesus. I met Jesus. I had a supernatural encounter with Jesus. On the day I was going to commit suicide, Jesus Christ revealed himself to me in a miraculous way, and I surrendered my life to him. So, when I received Jesus, I didn't know what Trinity was. Sorry to interrupt you. Yes. Would you mind explaining what that experience was in as much detail as you could?

40:33Sure. First of all, at that time, I failed. I was new in America. I was in depression. I was coming from a lot of trauma. And I was highly educated, highly trained in business and other things. But everything was failing in my life. I was a complete failure. And whatever I did, I couldn't succeed. My mind was fragmented. I was in serious depression and I started having suicidal thoughts. At that time, I was a single mom with a little girl and she grew up right now. She's a wonderful woman of God, also climbing career letters herself and growing in her faith. But at that time, one morning I woke up and I wanted to die.

41:23I said, life is not worth living. I failed as a Muslim. I never can be anything else. And I was working at that time at a high-tech company. I was studying computer science and computer network engineering. And so I was doing some city websites. I went to work planning my suicide. And I went to the restroom and I started crying in the restroom. I had a closure with God and I'm working in this Christian environment at that time. And I didn't want to do anything with Jesus. My boss, when I came back to my seat, my boss called me to his office, Christian boss. And he said, please close the door. I'm going to talk to you about something.

42:13I have to tell you something. I have never done this before in my life, but I have to be obedient. My Lord Jesus just told me what you are about to do. He told me, He revealed it to me about your childhood. He started speaking to my life. And He said, He wants you to know that He never left you nor abandoned you. When you were abused, when you were molested, when you were hurt, beaten up, He was by your side. He was interceding that one day you would turn to Him. Now He wants me to ask you, would you receive Him into your heart as your Lord and Savior? I didn't know any doctrine. I didn't know any scripture.

43:05I couldn't explain how Jesus could be Son of God. but I always say revelation of God is the presence of God. I knew Jesus Christ was real. I knew Jesus was in the room. And I knew my revelation in the heart. He was the only way. And I started weeping bitterly on the floor. I threw myself to the floor and I started weeping and I just said yes. Thank you for that, Pastor. It's very kind of you to share that. Thank you. Thank you. And I will also share with you, I've had similar experiences. I was blessed to be born to Christians and raised a Christian. A single mother, a working class single mother from the time I was five years old.

43:56Wow. And I could share with you multiple times in my life where I can feel God tap me on the shoulder. and it most recently happened it took 2 407 days from the day they murdered to char atre from the day we had the fourth one sentenced to life without parole 2 407 days and about a third of the way through those days i collapsed because the anger and the pain was overwhelming. And I know it sounds corny to some, and I don't care. I was desperate and suicidal. And I literally felt the Lord pick me up.

44:56and of course understand that we don't have to carry these things by ourself no

45:07so some people might have a skeptical view of your story i want you to know i'm not one of those people. And I thank you for sharing it. Now, as we speak on the eve of 9-11, there's something that many people don't know in America, and that is that approximately a third of Americans alive today were either not alive or too young to remember 9-11. It's a big number, a big percentage. language there's 140 million of excuse me 340 million of us in america roughly a third's a big number and it would be similar in much of the western world of course and so if i was a young person who was not born and or too young to remember 9-11 from your perspective pastor what would you want me as a young person to know about 9-11 well uh i will tell you this was one of the most tragic moments in the history of our nation.

46:15And this was done by radical Islamists, terrorists, who hated us and who hated our freedom to destroy us and hurt us. I want you to know, as a young generation that I am speaking to you, there are enemies out there. and these enemies are enemies of your freedom, enemies of your safety, enemies of your faith, whatever faith you are from, enemies of your faith. And those enemies want to destroy you. And I want you to know that your freedom costs. Freedom costs something. It is not free, it is not cheap. and you need to protect that freedom. And how do you do that? By being aware of the threats that are around you, understanding, loving, and allowing the access in between boundaries.

47:27Thank you, Pastor. Thank you. Now, sometimes we do have to have political conversations, even though people say, hey, don't talk about religion and politics at Thanksgiving. And I talk about religion and politics at Thanksgiving because I think they're important topics. We're now in a situation in the United States where we have roughly 250 elected officials who in one way or another are associated with the Democratic Socialists of America. And there is a strong component within the DSA that is very anti-Jewish, anti-Israel, and anti-America. And I don't mean that sensationally. When you read their platform and they say they want to open the prisons and get rid of police and have no borders and get rid of Congress and the Senate, etc., etc., etc., that's not, in my opinion, evolving America.

48:29That's taking it apart. And so there's been a lot of support for these folks. And we have people who are in Congress who, when asked about 9-11, say, oh, yeah, well, maybe one day a few people did something. That's roughly what Ilhan Omar has said. I'm paraphrasing. And we have a mayor in New York who knowingly, openly is friends with and is seen in public with radical Muslims, imams who in one way or another are tied to 9-11 and or have said things to support 9-11. arguably the number one kind of young up and coming social media star in the the far left world in the united states a guy named hassan piker i believe is his last name uh in the not so recent in the very recent past has come out and said on his digital channels hey i'm going to say it america deserved 9-11 and this is a person with millions of followers and social media We had multiple waves of social media fawning over Osama bin Laden's manifesto as younger generations have, quote unquote, discovered this.

49:44And so I'm curious what your take, Pastor, on these sorts of things happening in the United States. What's your take on that? Well, I think even though all of these are presented at political issues, political sites, and political opinions, my opinion is this is not political. So foreign ideologies are being implanted and trying to be implanted in our culture and in our even political arenas, such as extreme socialism to borderline with communism and support of it, such as Islamization of America is something that we can take it lightly. just like you said 9-11 a lot of these are I have one saying yes faith comes through hearing hearing the word of God but also faith comes through hearing the more we hear it this is what is trying to happen and this is how social media works how a mainstream media works the people more hear it for example I grew up seeing in the Middle East television all the time Israel is evil Israel is evil.

50:54And after a while, you start believing Israel is evil because every single day this is what you are hearing. It becomes your faith. And that is what people are trying to do with this. Justifying 9-11, justifying Mamdani's speeches in New York, which is like, I just watched one of his speeches because we were creating as a team this video to wake up America. And Mamdani says we are just like our leader Mohammed. We follow his example. He went from Mecca to Medina and we came to America. You know, he went from Mecca to Medina just to kill, to invade. And he's saying this in front of thousands of Muslims and millions maybe that are circulating in the video.

51:44Basically, he's giving this message and motivation and inspiration to Muslims. This is why we are here, to invade here, basically. And he's in power. And when we speak about loving America, when we speak about loving Israel, I mean, immediately you are being called racist, or supremacist, or fascist, or nationalist. There's nothing wrong to love the country that you live in. I love America. Why? Because as a woman, I have rights here. I have protection here. I am blessed here. I build businesses here. I am treated equally with men here. And because of this, I love it. I receive opportunities in America.

52:28I build businesses, income streams, and help other people that I could not do it in my own country. And that is why I love this opportunity given, incredible dream, American dream given nation. And I have every right to, it doesn't make me a fascist. It doesn't make me a white supremacist. This is so ridiculous. And we started labeling people like this. And I invite people loving America without being supremacist, of course. And we started like labeling so easily everybody in America. But this is something that unfortunately mainstream media is trying to implant in our minds. And of course, I don't want to be political.

53:13I want to preach the truth and I want to speak love to everybody. But also I cannot stand when Sharia is made such a once upon a time cute story. It is not cute. Now, Pastor, I've also heard you say, and if I've misunderstood this, please correct me. but I thought this is what I heard you say or write, which is you believe some political leaders like Mamdani and maybe others, you'll tell me, speak in English in code to the Muslim jihadist world in ways that are not obvious to those of us who grew up in the Western world. Am I understanding this correctly? Absolutely. And if so, tell me. Absolutely.

53:57I said that. And actually, these codes are not very basic. to, just like I just gave you an example, it doesn't have to be a major oracle or a code to be broken. The moment he says this, we are like Muhammad, we came here as foreigners. He's already giving the message, Muhammad only as a role model displayed jihad, displayed invasion, displayed everybody putting a knife or a sword on their throat. They have to become a Muslim. He represents, Muhammad represents 25 % of radical Islam today that Mamdani is giving an example in his speeches. And so I just want to be clear, Pastor. You think that Mamdani is what you have been calling a radical Muslim and not a, let's just call it moderate Muslim?

54:57Absolutely. That is my opinion. Yes. I am entitled to my opinion. Yes. And that is my opinion that he is. He's a radical Muslim. Yes. Now, I also must tell you one of the most interesting pieces of, let's just call it, Christian propaganda against radical Muslim ideology that I've ever heard goes like this. And I really am looking forward to your reaction. Radical Muslim ideology says that the founder of the religion, the greatest thing you can do is die for him. Yes. And the founder of Christianity says, I am going to die for your life. Absolutely. That's the biggest difference. Is it really or is it just good Christian propaganda?

55:46Well, I think that is the truth. We don't have to do a propaganda about it. Jesus. I was worshiping a God who was telling me to go and kill and die for him. And I was ready to do that. And there's no, I hate to interrupt you, but there's no question in your mind. You were ready to do that. You wanted to do that. And you believed your God wanted you to kill and die for him. You believed that? Absolutely. I believed it with all my heart and I was ready for that. And in the Middle East or Muslim world, we are not afraid of death as much as people are afraid of death in America. We live very close, hand to hand with death every single day in the Muslim world, in the Middle East especially.

56:34I wanted to die and kill in the name of my God. But then I met a God, true God, who came and died on the cross for me. That is the difference. And when people say we worship same God, I said, we may call him God, G-O-D, but we are talking about two different persons, two different characters, and two different missions. One came to save, and the other one came to destroy. Thank you for that. I don't know if you know the music artist, the singer-songwriter Jelly Roll. Yes. He's one of my favorites and his music really speaks to me. And he's got this great song. You know, of course, he's very open about his Christianity.

57:24And he's got this great song where the kind of refrain in the chorus is something like, you can't kill a man who's been born again. And while I wouldn't be facetious and say to you, I don't fear death, I think I do. But I don't think I fear it may be the way some people do because for me, I believe dying is going home. Absolutely. I don't want to die. I'd like to stay here for quite a bit longer. But I also believe in my heart and I can prove it, I believe. There is a heaven and there is a God and I know, I know that I'm going to go home. Amen. Now, there's so much I can talk about with you. Are there any other key things that you want to touch on, Pastor?

58:15First of all, I just want to thank you for your heart. And I want to thank you for being transparent and vulnerable about, first of all, your faith and your pain. What you've been through because of losing your friend in a very violent and very terrible, horrific way. I wish that people are more open about talking about their faith and experiences, painful experiences, without even religious masks. Religion is really, like we spoke, even religious Christianity, radical Islam. When we started seeing the spirit of religion, it becomes really dangerous for all of us. when it is forced on people, when we are forcing our faith on people.

59:06As at the beginning I said, when it is an ugly Christianity, when people are holding banners and saying gays are going to go to hell, or people, aborted babies are going to go to hell, this cannot be our starting point of our message of Jesus Christ. And that hurts me and my heart because instead of winning, we are destroying. Instead of gathering, we are scattering. And Jesus didn't do it this way. He always told the truth. And he wasn't a nice guy, by the way. We are so much after popularity. Jesus was tough as shit. Oh, my God. One of the things that bothers me, Pastor, about people's perception of Christianity.

59:54Yes. turn the other cheek and do unto other, all good things, of course. But many, many, many, many people conflate that kindness for weakness. That's right. There's nobody tougher than God. And there's nobody who is a bigger badass that ever lived than Jesus Christ himself. right and this gets missed uh i look for strength there jesus is very clear the other thing i would say and i'd be curious as to your reaction well there certainly are parts of the bible that you could absolutely interpret as against certain things like homosexuality like adultery etc etc. However, there are other things in the Bible, which in my opinion, supersede those things.

1:00:46So for example, I don't have the data in front of me, Pastor, but I think somewhere between 5 % and 10 % of people are homosexual, roughly. Again, I might be wrong, but it's a meaningful percentage. We see it everywhere. We see it in the animal kingdom and so forth. And I look at that and say, well, if that's how God made you, that's how God made you. People look at me and I, I would say I was not forecoming about my Christianity for many years. And it was for two main reasons. Number one, the radical, psychopathic, insane, often far-right Christians are disgusting. They terrify me. People call them white supremacists, white nationalists.

1:01:39I call them white terrorists. I call them Christian terrorists, just like we have Muslim terrorists. Yes. Christian terror killed my friend. I live with that every day. It's my religion. And so evil comes dressed in lots of different ways. And so that caused me to not be forthright or not as forthright as I might have otherwise been. And the second thing is, I don't look like or sound like what a lot of people think a Christian is. No, you don't. I am like, I am having fun here also. I'm laughing at some of your very comfortable comments. But again, yes, thank you for being who you are. Well, and what I realized, so I'll tell you a quick story.

1:02:33My business partner and brother for life is a man named Eddie Yoon. And I can tell you that Eddie and I will be writing and teaching and researching and working together until they put me in a box and throw dirt on my face. And then we're going to do it again when we go upstairs. And he is a devout Christian. and he more fits the picture, let me say it that way, than I do. And when he and I first decided to work together, I said to him, Pastor, I said, you know, Eddie, if my swearing and some of my outrageous behavior and such is a bit too much for you, you let me know, and I'll try to curtail it.

1:03:15I can, you know. And he said to me, absolutely not. He said, you be yourself. I know exactly who you are. And he said, the Lord made you this way for a reason. And so I swear my face off in front of him and he doesn't, it doesn't even register. And so, uh, and he's helped me a lot, frankly, to become more and more forthright because I realize what we're talking about, which is the Lord made me this way and he must have for a reason. And, uh, as Eddie has made it clear to me, Jesus loves me for exactly who I am. Wow First of all, I really appreciate you sharing this with me And second of all You are reminding me The man who led me to Christ He's a Genius level businessman Who trained me in business later on And his speech His mannerism Just being so free And comfortable under his skin Was like you And I want to tell you, he used some words like you used.

1:04:22But the reason that I received from him, because I wanted to get out of the religious box anyway. I wanted to be liberated and free. And he wasn't religious. He loved Jesus, but he wasn't religious. So I could receive it from him. Now I see a lot of Christians, and I said it as an insult to so many Christians. And I said, I am so glad when I was a Muslim, you weren't the one witnessing to me because I would never become a Christian. And God knew that I could receive from a man like him because he was real. That is what people are after. They are not looking for you look perfect, you look polished, and you are saying the right things, you are so politically correct.

1:05:09They are looking at a real, real person. And when I talk with you, that is what I see. And that is what I appreciate. I think that is you can take it to the bank and you can cash it. It's a million bucks right there. That's very kind of you, Pastor. And, you know, I've said a million times and I'll say it a million times more. If every Christian was like Eddie Yoon, my partner, everybody in the world would be a Christian. And I've gotten to know his pastor and have fallen in love with him. He's an extraordinary man, a pastor in the Chicago area named Dave Ferguson. And he's exactly the same way.

1:05:45The least judgmental and the most loving that you could imagine. And if they do judge, they judge on your merit, on your behavior, on your character, on your words and on your actions. And at least for me, these are the legendary Christians. Absolutely. Now, Pastor, is there anything else you'd like to say? No, I really enjoy what you said. This is going to be a conversation as if we are sitting in a restaurant or a cafe and talking. I felt it and you made it easy. Thank you. Well, thank you, Pastor. I really deeply, deeply appreciate your time. I deeply appreciate you sharing your story. I want you to know I have a little understanding and hopefully a tremendous empathy and a huge place in my heart for your suffering.

1:06:40The suffering of your mother, the suffering of all of your siblings. Thank you. And the suffering of your nation. Yes. The giant sadness about this, particularly if you think about Turkey in specific, Turkey's one of the greatest places ever. Yes, it's beautiful. The people, the culture, the food, the architecture, the ocean, the landscape. and it breaks my heart to imagine you as a little girl growing up suffering what you suffered. Thank you. And so I thank you for your testimony. Thank you. I also want you to know I understand that we live in a world where saying the kinds of things that you say can come with some very scary costs.

1:07:31Can they not? Yes, absolutely. I receive more threats from some of the political party supporters than Muslims, unfortunately. I have some Muslims as well because of my bold stand. And just like your friend, there is a different way of fabricating, slandering, and we all go through. But if you are bearing fruit, that is the cost of it, I do believe. Yes. And may the good Lord protect you and keep you for the rest of your life and beyond. Thank you. You too. Pastor, thank you so much. Thank you. God bless you. God bless you too. Thank you so much. That was the legendary Dr. Isha Gabla. Her most recent book is called Heavenly Whispers, Daily Moments with the Father to Restore Your Soul.

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1:09:46Today's information is provided to you solely for informational purposes. And this podcast is the sole property of the Category Pirates Oddcast Network, and it does contain content known to the state of California because radically, I almost said rodically, as if I had a British accent, rodically? Did I say rodically? I don't know. Sometimes when you talk, your mouth doesn't work the way you think it's going to work when you open up your mouth to talk. All oddcasts do contain nuts, and all rights do remain perturbed. Please contact your spiritual advisor, your doctor, your shaman, your lawyer, your chiropractor, your butcher, your yoga instructor, your shaman, your bartender, your boat captain, and of course, your category designer before trying anything that you heard today.

1:10:28Everything is the way that it is because somebody legendary just like you changed the way that it was. Recently, a suspect for a crime named John Publix was arrested at, you guessed it, Publix. Marketing that doesn't produce revenue is also called Arts and Crafts. We are produced by the greatest of all time, Jason DeFilippo. Check out his podcast, Grumpy Old Geeks. Sarah Knox and Jamie Jay handle our website and technical execution around here. Show notes by GM Simon and the Bobas Brothers, EX and RJ, to our web development. Our web development. My mouth seems to be breaking down on me. Our law firm is Wheaton Jack, and our accounts are three balance sheets to the win.

1:11:11Don't forget Dolly Parton was right, and listen to Whiskey Myers. Love you, Mom and Dad. And thanks for saving my ass, Deanna. And hey, Flip, this odd cast really ties the room together, doesn't it? Today, our deepest apologies go to Steve Cox, CEO of Clary and Sales Loft and Sales Floft or whatever the Fluffy Fluffs are called now. Sorry, Steve-o. We just ran out of time for you. That's it, my friends. Please stay safe, stay legendary. And until we're together again, follow your difference.

1:11:45Thank you.