Revisited – S3 E12: Natalie Cassidy, actor

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:07I'm Grace Dent and this is Comfort Eating from The Guardian a podcast where we pay homage to the lesser celebrated foods in life because even as a restaurant critic I believe the food that matters most is often that snack you cobbled together when you curled upon the sofa each week I ask my guest to lift the lid on what comfort foods have seen them through their lives because you can tell a lot about a person from what they eat behind closed doors

0:46hello friends now while the comfort eating team retreat to Bridlington on their August maxi break I thought that we could serve you up some of my favourite episodes. Those ones that made me laugh and cry and, well, snort all food down my nose while I was trying to ask questions. These are the ones that I still talk about when I'm down the pub reminiscing. So here, with no further ado, is Queen of Hearts, Natalie Cassidy. A gleaming silk strand in the nation's fabric. She has played Sonia Fowler in EastEnders for over three decades and she now has a very excellent podcast all of her own. We're going to be back in September with more perfectly sized portions of comfort eating nourishment.

1:40Oh, bring those celebs to me. Bring them into my house holding snacks. And in the meantime, here's Natalie. I should say before we start, today's episode contains some swearing. Hello friends, you find me for the last time this season in my kitchen as ever. And of course, just to put me in my place after such a wonderful series, Gino, the cat, seems to have just puked on the floor just before my guest arrives. Classic, get the kitchen roll. Okay, so I'm going to have to have something very quick. I am unwrapping baby bells and dipping them directly into tomato relish. You can never just have one, can you?

2:28Two, three, is four too much? Right, the word iconic gets bandied around a lot. But my guest today truly is a British soap opera icon. I am of course talking about the actor Natalie Cassidy. Can you tell that I'm excited? Some of you might know her by a different name, that of her EastEnders character Sonia Fowler. As Sonia, Natalie has acted out some very meaty storylines including a surprise teenage pregnancy, being held hostage and being arrested for murder. Leading to fans coining the phrase what doesn't kill you makes you Sonia. Today it's all about Natalie though because aside from nearly 30 years of her and EastEnders she's been elevated to one of the country's most beloved cult figures.

3:24I want to hear about her real life storylines and of course the comfort foods that that are close to her heart. You see, some people sniff at baby bells, but they're perfection. Toddlers love them. Old people love them. Podcast presenters love them. Last episode of season three, people. Natalie Cassidy. Oh my gosh, I couldn't ask for anything more. I've got time for another.

4:03Natalie Cassidy, welcome to Comfort Eating. I am honoured to be here, Grace. You are officially one of the UK's most beloved huns. As crowned by the massive Instagram account, Love of Huns. Yeah, it is an honour actually. They use you endlessly for memes about Prosecco with the girlies. But who is your favourite UK hun? Oh, it's a really difficult one. I think I'd have to go Alison Hammond. What a hun. A multifaceted hun. Just a massive breasted hun who loves to just cuddle people and laugh and have fun. She's funny. She's serious. She's relatable. She's just normal. She's one of us. It's normal with an extra twist.

5:00Like, I'm normal, but then I'll go to Selfridges for the day and sit up at the cocktail bar and buy a nice bag. You know what I mean? That is so you, Karen. Right. Natalie, let's get on to important stuff. Food. What ultimate comfort snack have you brought to eat today? So I thought about this, obviously listening before, and I thought, what can I come up with that's really exciting and a bit different? And I thought, no, you've got to be honest. When I'm at home on my own, Mark's at work, he's working late, I put the kids to bed. I don't chop things up and muscle things up. I can't be bothered.

5:40I don't want to do that. I want to sit down. I want to have a glass of wine. I love it. And being a hun, it usually is a pool of fumo. I won't drink shit wine. And what I do Is I don't even get anything out of the fridge, Grace I don't even open the fridge Is it just the wine? It's Fifa Lung and Mark's Crisps They are good They're a good crisp And I just sit with my wine And my packet of crisps I'll probably watch EastEnders Pure pleasure Do you watch EastEnders? Yeah, you've got to keep up with it, babe For the record Natty's opening it with her teeth. I haven't got my Le Creuset top thing. That is so fun.

6:34I haven't got my little, what do you call that? Well, the opener thingy. No, the thing that you take the top of the foil off with. I don't know what the actual name for that is. Well, that's not here. I've just thought of a thing that is really fun. We buy Le Creuset, but we get it at TK Maxx. It's so fun. It's so fun. I've actually got the Quizinart electric opener. The one that just goes in, out. Do you know what I'm going to say? Yeah. I am surprised you keep up with EastEnders because do you not start looking at everybody else's storylines and scripts and thinking, well, they've got better lines than me this week.

7:13No. No. I've been there for 29 years. Well, with a gap, seven-year gap. But when you start in a show that young, all of those feelings go out the window I never look at the telly and go oh what am I wearing or oh I've said that wrong it's just in me I can't quite explain what I mean but I love watching it so I can go to work and say for instance my mate Max who plays Ben I know he's had an amazing storyline of late yeah so I would I want to go in and say Max I saw that last night was fantastic. It's just about morale and teamwork. Oh man, you're a trooper. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you for coming.

7:58I can't believe I'm here.

8:06You grew up in Islington, London. I did, yeah. Tell me who was at home when you were little. my brothers are older than me a lot older, 15 and 18 years gap, so really I was an only child really growing up at home with mum and dad and my nanny Liz lived with me from birth, so my mum looked after her mum, so it was like multi-generational in our house and she lived in this little room upstairs and she'd be upstairs and I'd take her up her little Guinness and I've got the memories of taking up her little roast dinner on a Sunday oh yeah so there's four of four of you in the house yeah and and you so nanny's nanny's getting older and and she's what's staying in bed quite a lot in bed or getting up and sitting in her little chair and i go and sit with her and you've got the little tray i've got a little tray or a little jug of water and she loved a guinness for iron levels obviously so she had a little guinness i love that she had i love that she had a guinness what were your mom and dad called Evelyn and Charlie my dad called my mum Liza I don't know why so hence why my daughter's called Eliza for Evelyn and Liza people always go is it for Eliza Doolittle no what were they like mum and dad they were just the best mum and dad I had a wonderful upbringing if I had walked into your house on a Saturday night when you were about 8 years old what would you all be doing You'd have Big Break, the Generation Game.

9:40You'd switch over to ITV and then you'd have Blind Date and Gladiators. It's like the best. It was magical. It was very focused round telly, if you like. But mum would be, I can still smell the chip fat. Yeah. The deep fat fryer would be on. Yeah. She'd made her own chips. She'd have a little steak, cremate it. It was cremated, but it still tasted good. I don't want that now. that if my mum was here now, I would say, I want the steak how you used to do it. Yeah. Tough. Hang on. So what does she do with the steak? Does she fry it in another pan? She fries it. She fries it until it's grey. Cranted.

10:20It's grey, yeah. Well, people back then, they didn't eat rare meat. The 90s, we didn't eat rare meat. So yeah, that would be fried. She'd probably chuck in a few tomatoes. We'd have a few fried tomatoes. So she's getting the potato, the big Maris Piper. She's peeling it. She's peeled the potato. She's washed the potato. And then it wasn't uniform chips. You know, it was like just chopped up. Yeah. Fat ones, thin ones, thick ones. Just the best chips. So then the chips come out of this fryer. What are you having with them? Saucers? My dad would not allow tomato ketchup on the table if he was sat at it.

11:02He'd have gravy, which I found really weird. I don't know how he'd have Bisto, but he would. But he would not have a sauce. No mint sauce, no mustard, no mayonnaise, no tomato ketchup. I could have tomato sauce, but I couldn't sit with Dad if I was eating it. I've never heard this before. Have you not? No, I've never. I've never liked it as well. He hates it. David hates it. My niece, Evie Mae, she can't stand it. She's like, get that away from me. It might be a Cassidy Jean thing. I think it is a Cassidy thing. What about mayo? I love mayonnaise. but that has come with age. We didn't have mayonnaise in the house so I wouldn't have known if I'd liked it or not.

11:40If I didn't eat mayonnaise, I reckon I'd be like a supermodel. Honestly, they'd be like, who's Kate Moss? We've got Nat Cass. If mayonnaise didn't exist. But you know you buy breaded chicken, just four sort of breaded chicken steaks, put them in the oven and just have mayonnaise with it. I could live on that. Okay, Saturday night. what is your dad doing when your mom's cooking he worked in a newsagent so sometimes on the saturday evening because he didn't open on the sunday he'd do the books so he'd sit down and he'd have a little tin and he'd get all the money out and he you know he'd tally up what he's made and what he just to make sure everything was level but i loved that all his money bags all all the money spread out, all the coins.

12:30And he'd sit and he'd do all the books. The smell of the money. Oh, yeah. The money. All the coins and this little tin and he'd go for it. And I just used to watch him do that. Also, back in the day, he was quite emotional about football. If Arsenal had played that day, he'd either be really happy that they'd won or a little bit annoyed that they hadn't. And the pools would be on as well and he'd check his pools. and that sound of the pools. It's a bit like the shipping forecast is so amazing to listen to, like meditative almost. But I feel like the pools on the telly, the fat fryer, I couldn't think of a happier place.

13:10We should describe the pools to people listening. Yeah, go on. So you have to predict what football teams are going to score next week, whether it's going to be a draw or a lose or a win. Yeah. And you put them all in little Xs that go down a grid and then you enter it. You're making me emotional. Honestly, that has just taken me back to... With the polls. Yeah, my family all sitting. It's when they got to the Scottish bit and they'd go, four-far, four. He's killed bride. Three. Brilliant. But right up to the end, Dad would go, oh, you look happy, you run the polls. Yes. It's still, you know, it was a thing, wasn't it?

13:52what other family do you have around i wasn't blessed with a sister and obviously i've lost my mum young i was 19 when she died but it's i feel like god or whoever it is i don't even know if i believe in god but something in the world has gone all right well you haven't got that you haven't got your mum you haven't got a sister but i'll tell you what we're going to give you we're going to give you two sister-in-laws who are like your sisters because they've known you since you were a baby and then they're going to have kids and you're going to have another set of amazing women yeah and Maria, Elliot and Evie are just fantastic.

14:31Evie obviously is younger and I really am an auntie to her but Maria came along when I was three and we're like sisters and then Elliot's uh 30 so yeah we you know we get on very very well. Maria and Elliot are like I can't express my feelings with them. I can't tell you how I feel. I can see how you feel because you look emotional just even talking about them. They are my sisters, my best friends. I'm their auntie. They're my nieces. It's just an amalgamation of everything you could want from a friendship and a family member. If I go a day without talking to Elia or Maria, I feel depressed but I don't know if it's a good thing or not to feel like that but that's how I feel yeah I need that connection it's yeah I don't know what I'd do without them really really I don't

15:36you were in a drama club when you were little yeah but then when you're 10 you joined the cast of eastenders which is arguably the biggest soap opera on telly at that time yes yeah okay join the dots for me how does that come about okay so i went to anna shir theater in copenhagen street up in uh islington and again what was lovely it was two pounds fifty a lesson on a Friday night and anyone could go yeah anyone could go for that£2.50 and it didn't matter who you were what size you were what colour you were and that place taught me Anna Anna Sher herself actually taught me everything I needed to know much more than school about diversity we'd have a Winston word because Winston Churchill learned a new day a new word every day we'd have a winston word to learn each week she'd have an africa side um a map and an irish map because they were her places we'd talk about martin luther king and color and i'm going back a long time and it's so relevant to us today being able to open that conversation about white privilege and just race and all of those and transgender it was she was so ahead of her time to teach kids that you can be anything you want and it doesn't matter who you are, what colour, what race, what sexuality you are.

17:06She was just a humanitarian. She just loved humanity. And she was amazing. So I used to go to this class. We used to do a lot of improvisation. Tameka Empson, who plays Kim, she just won the Comedy Award at the Soap Awards. She used to go. She was older than me, so she was in a different class. But she was amazing, so she went there. and in our class Anna Sher used to go and we'd be chatting or whatever and she used to go oh why can't you all be like Tameka Empson and we'd all have to go because we're all individuals and she was like a teacher's pet for Anna and yet casting directors used to come in and out of Anna's and sit and watch us they used to just sit in the theatre come in and sort of watch what's going on who's about and this one night was EastEnders and these guys came in and they sat down and they must have thought it was this funny looking thing and I stood up and said what I don't know something about it ain't my fault I broke the Uber something you know whatever and then I got a recall they said we'd like to see you at Elstree no one in the family acts mum's at home didn't have a job she was a homemaker dad was a newsagent agency phoned hello Evelyn your daughter's got an audition now It's like a recall to go up to.

18:25So she went, oh, all right, should we go, Charles? Should we go up there? We'll have a good one. So we went up there. Driving up there, take that, were huge at the time. 1993, this is. And there were queues in Bournemouth High Street of just girls. Queues and queues and mania. Like, you don't get it now. And I was driving in this gate thinking, I can't believe it. I'm driving in here and then I'm standing outside. So I wasn't even excited about the audition. I was just excited that I was in the same place where Tate that was. That was really amazing. I went up. I read this script. I said hello to everybody.

19:01Went home. And then my brother Tony tells it really well because apparently my mum, I was at school when she got the call, so my mum phoned Tony to say, your sister's going to be in EastEnders. She's got a part, playing a part, a little girl in a family. And I don't even think my mum realised what it was. We didn't watch EastEnders. We watched Coronation Street in our house. Never watched EastEnders. My dad didn't like it. My mum didn't really. It was Corrie. I just thought, well, I'm going to have a couple of days off school, go to a different place, meet some new people. I was like an adult at 10.

19:37I've always had a very old soul. So people who, you know, my sister and I would tell you now, I've always surrounded myself by older people, spoken to older people. I'd go round a mate's house. They'd go to bed and I'd sit with their mum. I love that I'd be mates with all the mums more than the kids I love that pour us another glass, Brenda I've got stuff to talk about get us a glass of wine

20:14Tell me about the first day that you walk on set I had a black velvet coat bomber jacket Sonia's first coat and I remember them giving it to me and saying you've got to take it home and dirty it up so I remember having to take this coat and like kicking it around the garden thinking oh I've got this coat that it's not mine but Sonia's thinking this is a bit strange I remember that and I remember it being freezing freezing cold I started in the October and having to spray paint outside the laundry that was Robbie yeah that was the first thing I shot I I remember that. I'm really fascinated by food on sets.

20:50When you're a 10-year-old child star in the 90s, did they get you like a special rider of things to eat? Did you have like a dressing room just full of sunny delight? I don't know what sets you've been to. Yeah. No, the BBC or the BBC when we had a canteen. so you'd go over to the big canteen and you'd see people over there. Grange Hill was filmed there as well so you'd have all the Grange Hill kids over there. Top of the Pops was filmed there so on a Thursday you'd see people. What's your go-to canteen lunch? Probably pie, chips and beans. Classic. Beef pie, chicken pie. Every day. Chips, beans.

21:39Yeah, probably. Or fish and chips, or a burger and chips, like real stodge. Stodge. Yeah. Stodge is so good. Yeah. How do you manage everything? You're a child star, you've got home life, you've got to go to school. Busy? Being at primary school, it was a bit of a breeze, really. I just used to have the odd day off and whatever. But secondary school arrived. I went to Islington Green, which wasn't the best school in the world. and there was a lot of jealousy there. How come she can have a day off? Why are you on the telly? It wasn't great, but I did love school. I enjoyed learning and I still enjoy learning.

22:21I'm a bit of an autodidact. I love learning, but it was quite tough, I think, looking back on it. I sort of got on with it. That's what I always do. I am that sort of person. I just get on with it. I've got quite a hard skin. Come on, just got to be done. Get, get, get. And then I kind of reflect and think, actually, it was a bit tough. There's a part of me that still lives in fear of teenage girls. You know, from that point in history, it's that idea when you're a teenage girl about that age, doing anything that makes you different. Absolutely. I stuck out like a sore thumb. Yeah. Well, you were famous.

22:58Yeah. I just went to this rough school down the road and everyone took the piss out of me, really. and then in the end I was like if you can't beat them join them which was probably the worst thing to do because I didn't really, I didn't come away with anything just didn't do any work just used to bunk off down the canal because I thought I can't, if they're going to bully me or whatever I might as well just join them and they weren't bad people actually they were just a little bit, how do you say it? Directionless and unmotivated because people didn't believe they don't believe in working class kids and also I had this amazing job that I loved going to so for me I just thought well I don't need to do this because when I'm at work I'm treated with respect there's no ageism at work one of my best friends was June Brown I was 12, 13 sitting with a 74 year old having an amazing time why do I want to be at school with these idiots it was just amazing Wendy Richard, June, Barbara Windsor, just these iconic women who would talk to me about work and what they've done before and what I needed to do and how good I was.

24:15And I just had this amazing, magical place, which was home, apart from my own house. It was home and it still is home. You can completely see that from the age of 11, you were 10, you were with these, like, you know, not the word isn't diva, but, yeah, divas of the soap world. Yeah, yeah. The big players, the big hitters. Yeah, absolutely. These women that had been in showbiz forever. Just the matriarchs of the show.

24:53Okay, so take me back. What would you and the castmates do for food after a long day of filming? So teenage years, we had Charlie Brooks, who's back now, which is a joy. So nice to see her and be with her. We do go back to being 15. So you had Charlie and you had Jack Ryder, who was like a real heartthrob of the time. Oh, I mean, sorry, so fit. So fit. Heartthrob of the time. Always a treat when he got his top off. But yet we would hang out. McDonald's drive-thru, babes. Oh. It was our go-to thing. Once one of us was driving, it was drive-thru at lunch every day. And then we'd do things and then you'd be showing off and you'd be like, is Ronald there?

25:42And they'd be like, oh, they're back. It's like, could you get me Ronald, please? Because I don't want the burger unless Ronald serves. And they're like, we haven't got time for this. It's a queue behind it. We used to terrorise them. Sorry. Is Ronald about? Is Ronald not here again? No. And I have a chicken sandwich with large chips, a Diet Coke and a cheeseburger, please. That was my order. Every lunch time. Hang on, talk me through that again. You're getting a what? I'm getting a chicken sandwich meal, but large chips. Large chips. Barbecue sauce. Large, massive Diet Coke and a cheeseburger.

26:20I mean, that sounds delicious. In the late 90s and early noughties, you were often photographed partying with your best mates from the show, Martine McCutcheon and Patsy Palmer. Tell me about those times. Well, really, it wasn't good, was it? I was about 14. Now we'd be out in, what was it called? Sugar? Sugar Reef. Sugar Reef, thank you. Every night, you know, different club every night, wasn't it? And I was about 14. And they'd go, come on, hello, Sonia. In we go. Table, all your drinks on it. Shambles I used to drink. Champagne, vodka and Red Bull. That's going to do it. Shambles. Do you remember Pop?

27:12I do remember Pop. I used to go there with H from Steps and Adam Garcia. Oh, my God. Boogie. They were good times. I've got questions of people that you've met in VIP rooms at that point. Mick Hucknall. Yeah, Mick. Victoria and David are twice as nice do after a smash hits party and I won an award. Yeah. Oh, Gail Porter. I had some really good nights out with Gail. You must have been absolutely smashed if that was your go-to drink. Shambles, yeah. I mean, even the name. I know. It was all a shambles, yeah. So you're 19, you're riding high on life, on and offset, and then your mum dies. What impact does this have on you carrying on?

28:09I mean, from that day. It was just a really, really hard time. but I think what I did was just carry on. I didn't really deal with it. How many days did you have off set? She died on the Monday of my week off so she was selfless to the end. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't need to have any time off. What, you went back the next week and learned all your lines and everything was bloody hell. But having my job, it was brilliant because I always had a focus and I loved my job. I loved what I did. The problem I've got, you see, which is such a shame, is I have all this sort of guilt about my mum because I was 19 when she died and I never had time to come back to her.

28:57So it's really hard. Was it really quick? Yes, she had an aneurysm. It was really sudden, although she battled with cancer before that and cleared it and everything. She just wasn't meant to be here anymore. But because you're 19, you hate your mum and dad. You're out all the time. You're not interested in them. and then in your late 20s you know mid 20s you come back don't you start having lunch with your mum you go out with your mum you do stuff and I never got to do it I never got to show that I loved her and I'm sure she knew but that's a really tough time for a mum and you don't know that until you become a mum and you start thinking of that sort of stuff it is really tough thinking about the grief I put my mum through and never never having the time to apologise

29:50Today we have endless choice when it comes to what to watch but in the noughties soaps were appointment viewing every night. What is it like when almost half the country thinks that they know you and the tabloid press are obsessed with you i don't know just it is what it is that's what i've that's what i've gone through i don't i never knew any different i was 10 people recognize me from 10 i can't i can't remember not being recognized so it's just part of my life fortunately sonia plays a good girl so i don't get harassed in the street i got a bit of harassment from girls when Sonia went out with Jamie because he was such a huge pin-up.

30:42I remember going to Blue Water once with Jack and we just didn't realise and it was so bad. The security guards had to usher him out the back of Blue Water. It was bad. People wouldn't believe it now because like you say, telly's changed. There aren't that many people watching EastEnders anymore. It's great, but no one's going to get 25 million viewers. When Jamie died at the Christmas, Jamie died and Sonia was there on Christmas Day, I think 24 million people watched that. You're not going to get viewing figures like that anymore. It's just not going to happen. Out of order, making people cry into their turkeys.