Revisited - S3 E2: Self Esteem, musician

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:07I'm Grace Dent and this is Comfort Eating from The Guardian a podcast where we pay homage to the lesser celebrated foods in life because even as a restaurant critic I believe the food that matters most is often that snack you cobbled together when you curled upon the sofa Each week, I ask my guest to lift the lid on what comfort foods have seen them through their lives. Because you can tell a lot about a person from what they eat behind closed doors.

0:46Hello, friends. Now, whilst the comfort eating team are riding the big one at Blackpool Pleasure Beach during our August maxi break, I thought that we could serve you up a sprinkling of my favourite episodes. These are the ones that I would tell you that you really need to hear to get an essence of what the heck my show is all about. Chatting, snacking, laughing, life, love, death and how long potato waffles need in the toaster. All the important things are covered. Self-esteem. Rebecca Lucy Taylor, as she's also known. arrived on comfort eating like a cannonball. She is a musician, a pop icon, a force of nature.

1:32She is a guru to millions of women. The woman is a grafter. And this was recorded just before she pulled a starring role in Cabaret the Musical out of the bag. I will be back in September. This is self-esteem. Please be aware that today's episode contains some swearing.

2:20Yes, I know it sounds strange, but it is the ultimate umami hit. See, Deborah went much heavier. She went much heavier. It was like ganache icing when she had it on, because that woman is a machine.

2:38Today, I have singer-songwriter Self Esteem, a.k.a. Rebecca Lucy Taylor, coming round. Now, it's not every day that you have a bona fide pop diva, sitting in your living room, I'm definitely going to have to put a pair of heels on, aren't I? Her songs are like a rallying cry that you can power dance to, even when you're on your own. And one fan even tweeted that listening to self-esteem made them feel like they could run through a wall. I've just renovated, so I'm hoping there'll be none of that. But that is the kind of energy I am expecting from this woman. Self-esteem's breakthrough, second album, Prioritised Pleasure, shook the music world in 2021.

3:23But Rebecca has actually been in the business for over 15 years. And with lyrics so raw and relatable and hilarious, I feel like she's lived a lot of life to get to this point. So I can't wait to find out more about her and see what comfort foods have seen her through, from her hometown of Rotherham to the red carpet at the Brits. I'll eat this first though.

3:57Rebecca Lucy Taylor, self-esteem. Welcome to Comfort Eaten. I can't believe it. Milestone moment for me this, Grace. Thank you. Do you know when you came to the front door, I opened it and I did that thing that people do to me. I grabbed you and I hugged you and halfway through the buzz of me hug I thought I don't know this person I loved it I loved it I need warmth where I can get it I've been lonely my whole life now I've got all these friends now everyone in the world knows you're my friend now never be alone again uh but no yeah it was fine don't worry I loved it I love your Instagram oh I think that it's a treasure trove of British icons Kerry Katona Saran Jones Hayley from Coronation Street I've not been on there yet not yet but rude it's coming it's coming trust as you sit in my living room which UK hun are you channeling today?

5:00oh my I've actually got my Hesman Hog Lancashire and Jones shirt on I'll get one sent to you oh my god because you know those Beatles t-shirts yes or like Oasis t-shirts it's just like the guys names and i just always thought they'd i just hate them what i what i want is a tv actress yeah t-shirt nothing nothing is more important to me than the essential of soap stars to bbc drama stars it's like my specific thing i'm most into i love that you've come in and talked about your t-shirt and not mentioned that you've got a sky blue jumper with sex house written on it as if that's as if that's just a common a common and perfectly regular fashion item something's been happening to me because i've never had any money right and like i'm making a tiny bit of money now so and i don't have kids or anything or or you know i don't know i don't have anything to spend it on really other than stupid jumpers you're talking to the queen of this absolute mode this is that's the mode i live in as well i get like high off it i I see something on the internet and then I'm like, I'm going to buy it.

6:10Is that the front door? It's here. Yeah. It got really bad. It's got really bad. Because I should save some of this money for when my career is not going so well. But here we are, sat in a stupid jumper that I bought with my money because I made it. I am so excited to see what a pop diva like yourself eats when she's home alone. So today I'm bringing you my favourite. Oh my gosh. which is a cheese toasty yeah with white onion on white bread with salad cream as a sort of dipping sauce oh my gosh can you hear my mouth water it which is rare that's how bloody busy i am and i am truly beside myself for this this looks so good first of all can i say that it's beautiful it's it's the fact that you've done a dipping side of salad cream not messing about oh let's go in let's get in there it feels it feels like it's wet it's like this is really this is a niche sexual thing for people northern women eating carbohydrates

7:23okay when would you eat this i love that this the specificity of alone i have one of my notes See, my phone was one, so I just want some alone time with a buffet. Like, my dream is a buffet, but no one's witnessing me at one. I love a white onion. Raw, raw. I could eat an onion like an apple. I should find it. You know, as you get older, I think your tongue dies off a bit, doesn't it? So, onions, pickles, jalapenos, all that now. I think I'm with you with the other things, but eating an onion like an apple, that's the work of a psychopath. No, that's one. That's one of the tests. Mmm, this is delicious.

8:02I haven't, but I could. You could. I think so.

8:12Paint me a picture of what it was like in the Taylor household when you were growing up. Were mealtimes important? Yeah, it was definitely an everyone's up to the table thing. My dad would get home like 5.25 and tea was on the table kind of thing. Always 5.25. I feel like it was like a really evocative feeling of, because I did the pandemic back there with him because I was in a flat share with no garden. I was like, oh, I'm getting out of here. So I ended up like living with my parents for a year basically. And the sound of my dad, the car coming onto the drive and this very specific rumble and the sonics of that just does something in me, which is like, I'm excited.

8:51And I was like, am I excited because dad's home or am I excited because it's dinner time? Both. He's a big to both, yeah. So yeah, it was 5.30. my parents weren't strict but they were their their parenting was very uh structured and there's a right way to do things and that's why I'm like this I think because I'd be like why do you have to do it like that you know so your dad gets in at 5 25 dinner's on the table at 5 30 what you having there was a lot of like stew you know good hearty British stuff yeah but then sometimes it would be like fish fingers chips and beans like I love that again there's nothing much more delicious than that I don't think I think we had like pasta but late on like pasta became you know pasta bake that's stodgy that brick of pasta pasta bake what with tuna in it yeah tuna sweet cut do you know as well I will do that if I'm hung over and alone I'll do a big like there's no bounds to how much pasta I can eat especially if it's like cheesy tuna sweet corn dolmio you know I love a jar I've made you know I've reduced things I'm kind of king cook yeah but then yeah ultimately nothing the dolmio white sauce oh my god delicious could spoon that in could dip the pieces of the onion in that you went to live with your parents in lockdown but when you were little living with them did you get on with them were they good for another yeah they are they're my parents are really shy though and like very un but flamboyant and i've always been like this which has been like you do therapy right and then you're like yeah they were amazing parents they couldn't have done anything differently but no matter what just growing up is hard and adapting and being there's that part of therapy i guess depending on how you do it but like there's a bit where you start to sort of understand why you behave or why things might have been difficult and there's like a resentment a tiny bit of resentment that I was like struggling with but like going home and living with them in a global crisis it's like real exposure therapy I guess to like and we you know my family don't talk we don't talk about things we don't you know no one sort of shares how they feel and obviously now I'm full of that so I was like sorry guys we literally legally have to be around each other and I'm going to but it's been beautiful you know and I and I sort of cherish it because they finally get me I think they see that um I've always been a performer I wanted to do all these things and they've always supported that but with a real air of like worry and um but I think it was tough for them because I'm a lot you know what do you do with that I like being a lot yeah me too now I'm making like a living out of it and buying stupid jumpers with it but for a long time it was very frustrating for everyone around me Richard Burton said about Elizabeth Taylor that she was just a bit bloody much and I think that's amazing because he kept marrying her yeah exactly exactly also like now I realize certainly my 20s like I wasn't actually being that crazy at all I just wasn't in circles with other people that were like me my bestie now we only just met a few years ago and she had this psychotic 20s in London at the same time I was having them but we'd never met and she felt very you know if I'd have met her maybe I was like there were people out there and now especially with my music and stuff like people responding to it like they do I'm like oh so I'm actually quite normal if you what if you want to figure out what that means but there's loads of people that feel like I do hang on so it feels like when you were a kid you had loads of energy that you were trying to burn off am I right is that yeah basically everything I ever it was like throwing shit to the wall and seeing what will stick in terms of what I ended up being there was a phase where I was really good cricketer and I was like South Yorkshire ladies could have been a cricketer like I could have no I can see that I would I played tennis I did amdram like obsessively did amdram I anything I just wanted to do everything but yeah I just want to be involved life was like and still is like why won't you just make something with it or do something or every like if I went to someone's house and they had a conservatory I was like okay this is backstage and the patio is stage you know like anything with four um you know a cooked corn a proscenium of any description I'd turn in my brain that was a stage and that was to be used and when I was a kid I think it was a mixture of spice girls and stuff and like that's what I want so badly.

13:28Well, Mel C head obviously, but then I'm queer. So I was like, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was, Jerry really captivated me as a vibe. Yeah, Jerry, I think Jerry was maybe my favorite. Just Jerry always seemed like the odd one out. I think there was a sense that they all never really liked Jerry. Am I being horrible? Well, I don't know. I don't know. It's like me in my back. They're like me. Oh my God. But yeah, I've got this memory of lying in my childhood bedroom. And you can remember when you'd get up for school and it'd be like freezing. Yes. Like painfully freezing. Yes. And my dad and I must have been 10, 11 or something.

14:13I didn't want to get out of my bed. And this was really where in my, there's no spontaneity in my family. And that's why I'm obsessed with like, fuck it, let's do this. I'm obsessed with like committing to the bit even if it's quite annoying or not going to really work but my dad came in and was like I've got a surprise for you this morning and I was, I must have been half a second I really vividly remember this looking at my Spice Girls poster and I was like imagining my dad coming back in and sticking a picture of me onto the poster and saying they've asked you to join the Spice Girls vividly that's what I thought this was going to be and I still remember this and he came up and it was a bacon sandwich which was we don't didn't have bacon sandwiches you know we had cereal that was a surprise i just remembered that now live on a podcast but yeah so i kind of want to do it you know like you me bum bum trainer like a make a wish thing like if if someone somebody out there one day if you can sort it that one day i wake up and you stick a picture and react with some ice skills poster i'll ascend what a journey i went on in that story i was like and then he came in and then it's like remember me the spice girls and it was a bacon sandwich and that was a surprise to be fed of the guy it feels like when you're at home when you were younger there was a definite schedule around eating and what you ate and when in a lovely way but were there ever times where you just kicked back and went a bit mad tuesdays right with brownies and i i can't really remember that i might be misremembering this but i'm pretty sure i think my brother was at something my mum must have been at something and and then it meant that my dad was in charge of getting me sort of fed and two brownies and I love it now when because my mates have got kids and stuff now and I'm like you see them do that like sell sell something to the kid as like normal do you know I mean and my dad and what I see now is like I was definitely sold this like Tuesdays I get to eat toast and honey in front of the telly yeah and I was like you know that was a treat now I'm Like, actually, I'm sure my dad was like, oh, this is bad parenting.

16:19But yeah, Tuesday night, toast and honey was, I used to put it on a cardboard box and get as close to the TV as possible. And I assume everyone was just so busy and so much was going on. It was just like, no rules left. It was like, fine. She can sit as close as she wants, get a toast in and get her to brownies. You've got your toast. You've got your honey. What were you watching on telly? Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. Yes. Awesome. Who else was looking after you when you were growing up? Was it just your mum and dad? uh yeah i mean nan and granddad my mom's parents were a big part of my life they live like down the road um right until you know they've only just died in the last few years i had this dreadful breakup in 2012 and i had to move home i was really skinny like that was my you know my little the first time i was like stopped eating and all the rest of things like the split up diet everybody's like yeah and i went on a coach trip with them for like four days with my nan and granddad and loads of other old people where did you go it's like scarborough and finally and i loved it and i made a little little film about um and i'd not been eating but it was this hotel where it's like breakfast lunch and dinner set and it was so like sort of school dinnersy and i loved it and i just like oh i just like ate loads with eight pensioners for a week and it really was a turning point.

17:39No, when I look back, some of the happiest times with my mother was when she would, even like in, this is just quite recently, you know, before she died, she wanted to go to Blackpool and she wanted to do that. Yeah. Three meals a day. Yeah. Coach. We would go down and just stay in some hotel. Yeah. Three meals a day. Exactly. Skilled dinners. Yeah. Kind of delicious. So delicious. I loved it. Turned around that phase of my life, actually. Back in the day, when I was a kid still, they had this mate called Eileen who had a car and Eileen, me and my nan and granddad would, guess they were just going to like big Morrisons or something, but it was a bit of a trip.

18:14Again, it was like pitched to me as a treat. And because I was just such an enthusiastic kid, I was like, yes, my Morrison. And we'd get, and I remember they would get me a pasta salad, those pasta salads with grated carrot and sweet corn and lettuce. Was this from the Serve Yourself bar? Yes, yeah, it was. The market, you know, the faux market in Morrisons. that was exciting it's like suddenly you turn around you take a right in morrison's and you're in this kind of weird like full victorian marketplace with ye olde sausage rolls i love it anything like that yeah even that felt like a wow like a set of a movie yeah so yeah i used to that's a memory i mean nan was really you know she was amazing at baking like proper she would make these scones and like it's quite sad i'll never taste the scone like that again because no one can do it like she did, you know.

19:07I know. It's still quite hard for my mum, I think. And I think me being like, let's make the scones my nan made would be a bit emotional for her still. But she'd rather just not access it for a bit yet, which is fine, I get it. Whereas I might access it, make an album about it, make a scone about it. But my mum's generation is very much like, no, I'm fine. You know, it's fascinating to me. Yeah. I mean, I have this with my family where I'm really, I know they think everything isn't for copy. Everything isn't an experience that you should write about. We don't, we aren't your material. No, I know.

19:47And you're like, yeah, but you need to stop being so interesting. Yeah. If you don't want me to talk about this shit, stop doing it. Yeah, it's funny. My mum really don't want to fanfare ever. and I want fun for every day, for everything, every single thing I do. And I'm like, yeah, thank you. I'm so busy at the minute. I'm like, if I do anything at all, I'm like, medal. Hello.

20:22Did you sing when you were little? Yeah. I didn't sing or think I was a singer, but I sung a lot and danced a lot. I didn't sing till my GCSEs because I'm a drummer so playing the drums for GCSE music so it's like learning reading music and quite boring actually it's not like I wanted to play like Green Day songs so I had to do timpani to you were into metal weren't you well like new metal yeah and then indie and that that pipeline yeah but um yeah I only sang then because I had this music grades singing so I just started singing show songs and then I guess that the addiction to that then was like wow you know at school I became this like wow she can sing and I was leading the play and all that and my yeah that's what I got really excited by.

21:15What show song do you recommend that I learn that gets the maximum attention quickly? Great question I dreamed a dream I would say I was Fontaine in our school production of Les Mis. And you know, she dies 20 minutes in, right? So the other two parts is Eponine and Cosette. And both of those parts were shared by two girls each. But I got to be Fontaine the whole time. And I would die. She dies. And I remember this. I put a beret on and come back on. Literally instantly be part of the chorus. You know, the students. It's like the beret, like hid. What a dickhead. I couldn't even give you two scenes before I was back on stage.

21:57And I was like front centre. I was just like, oh, I'm dead. Guess I was back. Drink with me. I mean, the beret is definitely. Bonjour. Yeah, yeah. To the mannequin. And I'd just done a very moving Dream to Dream. Yeah, I would say Dream to Dream is a good one. So during all this drama practice, what kept you going through rehearsals? I had this amazing music teacher who would stay really late and we did amazing groundbreaking things but he'd stay late and we'd work really hard on the shows and stuff and there was all there's sometimes there would be this you'd stay right to like 8 p.m and there'd be a break where we'd go to the end of the road and get a pizza from the pizza takeaway which was like really exciting yeah really grown up yeah and we'd have Apollo Fungi a pardon me what Apollo Fungi it was called no like chicken and mushroom chicken and mushroom the dream yeah and you know there's pizza crusts of actually disgusting like oily and not even taste of anything it's like a very specific kind of pizza takeaway that's like you know it's not yard sale sure i mean it's like that but yeah it was just very exciting the pizza was pretty not very good but is there any bad pizza though well true that's a good point so did you ever have anything different or was it always polo funky always polo funky just laughing now thinking about liana listening to this we'd be like a polo funky we just say it to each other like that

23:39okay so we obviously know you are this powerhouse performer who isn't afraid to wear a statement piece on stage talk me through the evolution of your style as a teenager because I always see you as like somebody who you're just very confident to wear something incredible to pick something off I've I offer you down as a fashion person yeah a fashion you know I'm interested in fashion and I like it and it's fun but it can also just be so horrible like and like I've done shoots where nothing's zipped up and I'm just like look it's like it's awful it's funny isn't it like I I battle all the time with like I could I could hemorrhage loads of weight and this might be easier but also like it's been important to me at this stage in my life to like I don't know it's hard enough work doing all the rest of it like and I think it's important to show body types like mine without it being like I'm a without it being anything really yes like so when you were a teenager did did you just go down top shop and pick not even well yeah top shop used to be very relaxing to me that big one i can't say it's on my hands but i like i'd always need a shit in top shop this is where this was your go for a shit of choice was in top shop which one the one in oxford street every time i would go in i'd be like oh my god i'm gonna shit myself And I was like, just clothes relax me.

25:12Shopping for clothes. So it's like a whole new. I'd be like, it happens every time. Still now, if I go in like a nice big H &M or like if I'm clothes shopping in person, it's touching. Do you know something? Of all the confessional things that I had in mind for us to talk about, that was probably never going to be on my list. But like, is it difficult when you get there and there's no bathroom? Yes. and that Topshop bathroom was awful but the amount of like stressful queuing I've done in that Topshop and I never got, I never thought about it and it would happen so often and this clever girl I know I was once talking about it and she was like I get that in Waterstones so she couldn't go into Waterstones without feeling so relaxed and she'd shit herself in Waterstones.

25:57Oh my god this is a thing yeah I've been shit myself in Topshops for many years now and now it's quite sad, it's gone so I mean to be quite honest now I'm worried about what happens because that one is gone in Oxford Street do you think it's because you blocked the toilets yeah like on the CCTV it was like oh that blonde bitch is back here she is for the love of God get the plum drink I don't know I do love fashion but then I also the more famous or whatever you get and the more high end it all gets the more mean it all feels I can't stand that um we have reached out to so-and-so but they've said no and I'm like all right fine I can't start going down that road what for borrowing items yeah like high fashion stuff and I'm like I guess you know I'm a 12 to 14 and that's big you know as far as they're concerned and then I'm like I haven't worked this hard for this long on my brain yes to indulge in that as a thing.

27:01So you left school and then did you work when you left school? Yeah, so I took a year out to train for drama school because I didn't get in any. And I did have enough for a uni place because I did like dead well in my A-levels, but I didn't care about that. I was just like, I just went to tread the boards. Yes. I didn't train for drama school and never auditioned again because that year I started a band whilst I was a phlebotomist and I also was a teaching assistant for a year. Okay, phlebotomist, blood. Yes, so I babysat for some doctors who were in the amdram scene with me and when I left school I needed a job and they were like, oh, we need a phlebotomist.

27:40So like very quickly at 19 years old I was confident enough to go and do that, I suppose. Taking blood? Yeah, I was taking blood out of people in a GP surgery. I loved it. Real beginning, middle and end to that job, you know. Do you still get a biscuit? no I wasn't there was no biscuits in the world I know I used to get very excited if someone fainted though because you had to like kick a kick a bit of the chair and it would make the chair go you know to get your feet above your head yeah because I'm a dramatic bitch I'll be like I really loved them bits um and I was like thought of myself as a nurse you know I was like I'm very professional around this time uh you started the band Slow Club with Charles Watson so was music something you had thought of as a potential career before this point it's a good question at the same time as being obsessed with musicals and stuff I was obsessed with bands and I was playing the drums and very very much like define myself by music you know I mean like a proper right arsehole probably but really like you've not heard of British sea power but then going home and listening to Destiny's Child by the way like I was all like most of it was fake um yeah I was like there was it was I don't think I'd thought of it as a career but when we started the band I had we'd had one band before that and we played some gigs and I suppose yeah I thought maybe maybe I could do that thing where you're a band that gets signed we were just we're in a post-artic monkeys Sheffield at this point and it's like anything was possible like yes you could be a global superstar and be from Sheffield and so I think that definitely made me pricked my ears up and made me think could do it but you're on the road all the time it must have been horrible but at the time i thought it was really cool like van life or van well car paul charles's perjot 206 was getting us around for a long time my first boyfriend was ferrying us about my dad once took us up to edinburgh i was like so embarrassing like i remember we had a manager and he was like i've got you a ton of the bar flying so that's that's when i was like okay i'm not going to uni like that felt like i remember celebrating getting that and now i'm like oh god the time it was big and it felt really big and i felt really cool and it did feel but it was it was but now because this is it you look embarrassed but honestly at that point that is really cool yeah especially then you're right that indies era everything was possible and to be touring and it must have been massively exciting it's not good for your health though no no what were you eating oh god i mean yeah that becomes a nightmare because the guys can kind of eat and well this is a generalized statement but all the men i was in vans with like they just like eat what they want and it didn't really matter whereas i'm very conscious of things like that and the hot meals are you know an obsession you you just go meal to meal because you don't know when it's from or how bad the environment's gonna be for me it was like if we had time to stop and have a sit down as the cafe oh that was luxury the lasagna's there with a spiky salad you know that salad that's like fucking horrible and hurts you and then dows it in salad that hurts yeah spiky salad what do you mean you know those leaves that are like yeah the leaves that are they're like oh it's four leaves it's glamorous but one of them's a bit like a thistle yeah A wonderful looking nickel.

31:16You're like, oh, this is really doing me good. I will eat a whole trough of lasagna, but because of that spiky salad, that's fine. Yeah, negates that. That salad is covered in salad cream.

31:40I'm going to read some of your lyrics. to you from your song the three four five do you feel trepidation when someone's gonna read lyrics to you what the hell like i'm gonna love it i'm feeling uncomfortable yeah i know because i'm saying that because whenever anyone says and i'm gonna read a quote to you that you said great right okay i'm gonna read some of your lyrics to you my stomach and my heart never align i wish they'd communicate and every single morning look in the mirror and think you again oh man i feel that i can't believe i made the cup by the way there's a couple of lyrics on friday's pleasure i was like we can't i can't get away with that and then lo and behold they're there i think it's a very funny lyric but it's also very real i think the line uh you again i get that yeah i can't believe it's still me here i sometimes like i looked in the mirror yesterday i'm sick of seeing her anyway you you don't shy away from talking about the pressure to look a certain way and you've talked about succumbing to that pressure yourself what was happening at that time when you just you started to really not like the way that you look and I know most women have had it who date men that sort of he was a bully he was corrosive stealth emotionally abusive or you know you're you're being crazy yeah gaslighting yeah you know but I had no education about it I didn't know and then as soon as it like now I go god it's it's a you know it's like a genre of person and and why don't you get taught about in school like I now you know even if when I date people they're even slightly like anything is a tiny bit towards that I'm like no I know what that means and I'm out like I don't need a red flag I don't even need a red flag no yeah I see the flicker with a tiny, a thread of a flag.

33:37Off you go. Yeah, but yeah, exactly. And like, and I'm proud of the sort of skills I've got in that department now, but God, I learned the hard way, you know. Anyway, there was this just environment of like, if I was skinnier and hotter, he'd stay, right? And the girl he like cheated on me with and left me for was like, you know, women that are teeny weeny and that's like absolutely fine. but like something I've never been even when I was a kid I was big boned big Becky like it was like the antithesis of me is what he glorified and so my brain just went okay nil by mouth let's go and like that might change things and it weirdly annoyingly was exhilarating that's what you know at first and the way people respond and the way people think it felt like suddenly I was a real one you know or whatever yeah it's really i've had to unlearn it loads because now if a friend has lost weight i'm like don't fucking mention it you never know why or i don't know it's complicated i'm a bit of a i'm a ball like still because some days i am like i need to sort this out and then i'm like sort what out and it's come you know it's constant but my therapist recently was like i've never really spoken about food with her and she was just a bit like you have to have it every day so like it's you never get a day off from that thinking about it and that that's why it's so I don't know I feel good when I'm healthy and exercising and nourishing my body but also I love I just love indulging and I don't see the point of being alive without it so I'm a bit like if that means I'm going to be like a bit heavier than what a quote-unquote pop star is I'm going to take that hit so as a band you and Charles Watson you went your separate ways in 2017 you rebranded as self-esteem shortly after that you released your first album compliments please i love that title it's very you now i've met you oh my god that is you again that was another one i was like i can't call it that and then i don't know too late i have so compliments please this is a really raw direct piece of work i mean how does that feel everyone i get asked it's like is it cathartic and i'm like it doesn't necessarily feel like it in the moment and i've been trying to figure this out myself yeah i think i in my life i'm a libra who is you know my we didn't talk about feelings much and and and the mo of my existence on earth has been don't be any trouble so that's results in my personal life is like i very rarely say what i fucking mean ever and i'm always shape-shifting or trying to be what you might want me to be and songs are the one place for a long time where I just said what I meant and they were under the cover of this might not be about you or this is maybe fictional or I'm repurposing this you know and and I'm seeing that now like you know like getting high higher a big fucking high off saying what I mean yes that's my best drug and uh yes that's what songs do I think it's something like that catharsis I guess what's the definition that you feel better after it no but I feel excited by being true because I'm not as a woman I've been very like whatever you need me to be I'll be it and like I can sort of convince myself for a bit but it always wills out whereas in songwriting has always been this safe place because I've got this idea for like a hat that just says I'll pay you not to be mad with me like that's how I've lived my life do you know what I mean like I'll sacrifice I'll literally pay you to make sure you're not mad with me and when you live life like that but I can be as pissed off as I want in a song or as real or true or sad or pathetic or dramatic or too much it all works well to music and if it rhymes so I'll pay you not to be mad with me I will I love that

37:44your track i do this all the time but it went nuts in 2021 didn't i have not a day off since i'm dying i'd rather be in a little bit of a flowery dress with a guitar desperate for an opportunity because that at least i got some sleep i take that back i don't mean that answer It was just incredible. It was like nipped in halfway through. It went, please help me. I wish I'd never read it. No, I know. It's been amazing though. So you've got fans and celebrities suddenly telling you that these lyrics, they make them feel things. They make them feel seen. I'm going to read some lyrics. Brace yourself.

38:30This is basically an audition. just in case you're feeling sick one night I just come on smoking a ciggy wasn't what you were expecting tonight perfect let's do it let's pitch it I can't really

38:48right don't be intimidated by all the babies they have don't be embarrassed that all you've had is fun prioritise pleasure don't send those long paragraph texts stop it don't getting married isn't the biggest day of your life all the days that you get to have a big oh my god do you know yeah that gets me honestly i could cry when i read that honestly it does it gets me oh no

39:21i've never cried don't i don't i don't i'm just one of those people that never cries but for some reason that really caught me. Do you know that's just don't be intimidated by all the babies they have. Yeah. Because it's not fair is it? No. No. Long. And all of it though. Don't send those bloody long paragraph texts. That's the bloody point. Do you know what I mean? Two lines. Yeah. I just think it's funny that. Do you know what? It's fine. Oh. oh right okay there was a question here so you've got this amazing oh right oh god okay so you have got this amazing and intense fan base how would you describe a classic self-esteem oh man a steamer has it got names i'm trying to cultivate steamers You know what?

40:24It's so different every time. There's a classic, you know, women in their thirties who haven't got married and had kids are like, thank you. And I'm like, no, thank you for also. Because it's plagued my life. It still does. My wiring is like, that's the what? The final furlong. And if you don't get it, then you've failed. It still feels like that. And I hate that. And there's lots of gay men, which is obviously heaven. And then there's like middle-aged men, looking really guilty but buying loads so i'm fine with them just shiftily standing there that's the best one the dms i get from lads being like it's made me think differently about what it is to be a woman and i'm like oh that is where it starts a bit like like if i date men and i explain to them what it's like just be you know how scary it is or how how much of your brain is daily taken up by should I be this I should be this I should be this if I was this I'd be happy and all that like some lads don't think like that straight lads don't think like that and they're like oh my god you know like I don't know I guess I just communicated that not with an agenda all of this record was because I was fed up and like it didn't work I went solo and it didn't work you know essentially I was like well it didn't matter then let's just do this and now it's obviously the second you stop trying exactly are you telling you turn right now just did a tour my summer is festival Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday every weekend pretty much and it goes from like dad's barbecue to latitude to burlesque fest to because I'll say yes to anything because I've never made money in my life so I'm like how much yes oh god there's no filter with me you can You can't see me up and down anywhere if they're paying me.

42:12If you see me at something a bit shit, just know they're paying me lots of money. Babe, I hear you. I think if you do come from somewhere like Rotherham or somewhere like Carlisle, you can't believe that that chunk of money exists for someone like us. You know, you've heard it's available, but when someone wants to give you it, it's... But it's hard when they're trying to cultivate a career for you. There's classism in music massively and a lot of people that are big are rich anyway do you know i mean yes hard to talk about but like yeah yeah definitely understanding more and more now i'm like slightly in demand or whatever but people can't believe i'm saying yes to things i'm saying yes to i'm like well i me trying to have a vibe or to an outsider thinking oh she's doing well because she must because all this is happening i'm like i'm not bothered about that i'm bothered about cashing the bank in the moment and you know being able to do it for longer it's never more real than when i see that your outfits when you're going to go on stage like they're always so incredible and so like lots of times i'm awful about showing my body you know and like you are you're really brave and just very like i'm here when you're standing at the side of the stage to go on somewhere is there ever a moment where you're just like fucking hell I can't do this yeah or happens a lot the blood just drains out my body and I'm like no no no no no no no I can't do it I can't yes what the fuck am I doing no you're too this you're too that your body can't do this but then I really just like drilling into my like it's a radical act then to to stand there in my leotard with thighs like mine right it's a radical act yeah yeah and And even though I don't personally feel like it, I'd rather be under a bag sometimes.

43:56See what, you know, see who puts that bag on her head and I'm like, I get you. I see you love. But it feels, that's when like the artist in me takes over, I suppose. And I'm like, no, like it's important and radical and vital that I don't get overwhelmed by age old bullshit that's, you know, the patriarch is putting into us anyway. The idea that like your body is not a beach body or whatever, you know, that sort of thing. like yes it is because it's on the beach like same with this it's like if I want to dress like that and I do sometimes I think you can't and that's when I know I should yeah you're on the road now with all women a lot of the time we've got one man we are one man in token man token man I always thought that would be a cool thing because it's for so long that I was in a band all men and me the girl and having the girl was the like cool thing it still happens now i see big artists have session musicians they make sure there's one girl doing a tambourine or one tom drum so it started out as a joke that i would have one man and now it's stuck because he's great we love him and sometimes we are like mike you need to lift this and we're like oh fuck i'll gender roll if i need to if it's like a bin that needs taken out yeah have you got a favorite fast food until oh mcdonald's what do you order i get a nugget meal with a cheeseburger mcdonald's in service stations you know this touch screen which they found out has particles of poo on every single one yeah but you didn't do all that did you no i don't get relaxed we love that but you can add uh extra gherkins extra sauce extra cheese on a on the pooey touch screen so I do that once we were possessed we get possessed by the idea of it and then there's this we're driving somewhere we went to one mcdonald's I'm thinking it was I think it was scotland and it just closed and he was like oh the one down whatever road is open we were like this poor guy's paid to drive us and we were like no we must drive and we detour went to the next one you could only get a mcdonald's by the audio through the app so that was like seven grown adults in a car park having done a gig all of us trying to download the app quick my my bassist guitar keys play galps is a she's an aries and she's like top of the class itis and she's a lesbian so she's just like so horrifically capable and it's so adaptable for any situation she was like like it was like her life depended on it we got the app we ordered it was this huge mcdonald's order it was delightful weird so i love to commit to the bit right that's my dream like and everybody in my band has that mentality and it makes for a really funny tour self-esteem thank you for i could stay here all day don't go off can i live here can i make some more sandwiches Canceled I'm staying Thank you This episode of Comfort Eating was produced by Emma Roberts The series producer is Leia Green and the executive producer is Cathy Drysdale Music and sound design is by Axel Cucutier and this episode was mixed by Solomon King If you like Comfort Eating, please leave us a review.

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