S10, Ep9: Miriam Margolyes, actor

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:07I'm Grace Dent and this is Comfort Eating from The Guardian A podcast where we pay homage to the lesser celebrated foods in life Because even as a restaurant critic I believe the food that matters most Is often that snack you cobble together when you're curled upon the sofa Each week, I ask my guest to lift the lid on what comfort foods have seen them through their lives. Because you can tell a lot about a person from what they eat behind closed doors. Hello, friends. You find me here, grappling around amongst some giant leaves. I'm dusting this here houseplant. Now this calms me down as I await my next comfort eating guest because if I had a klaxon, it would be time to deploy it because we are in national treasure territory today, folks.

1:09A rocket-powered dynamo is about to come through that door. Comedian, actor, writer, it's Miriam Margulies. This is actually my bloke's house plant. It's a seven foot tall yucca. The plant does have a name. He's called Bernard. Only took my fella seven years to move it in. I think it could be his biggest sign of commitment to date. I'm finally trusted to polish Bernard's hallowed leaves. He can't hurry love people, as the great philosopher Phil Collins once said. one person who will not be dusting the top of bernard's leaves is miriam margley's she may be enormous in presence and boundless in talent but she's only four foot eleven in height she's been on our screens big and small since the 1960s but there's been something of a margley's renaissance in recent years in part due to her infamously outspoken guest appearances on the likes of Graham Norton's show.

2:14But from the early days in the theatre and commercial voice acting work to scene-stealing comedic performances in shows such as Blackadder and iconic roles like Professor Sprout in the Harry Potter films, she is a stalwart of the British thespian scene. Miriam has got a new book out and it's called The Little Book of Miriam. It is packed with her usual wit and wisdom and lack of filter. It tells Miriam's story from her birth in wartime Britain, studying alongside Monty Python, the swinging 60s in Soho, and that's before it gets to the Miriam we know and love today. So I know there's going to be lots to chat about, but I do have a feeling she's going to have some interesting opinions on snacks too.

3:25We'll see you next time. to culture, the climate and more. Read, watch and listen to The Guardian for free at theguardian.com.

3:43Miriam, welcome to Comfort Eating. Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled. In your new book, The Little Book of Miriam, you have said, it's very important the older you get to keep making new friends, which is why my phone contains 11 ,739 people. No, some of them are carpenters. I mean, you know, but you have to make friends with tradesmen. Is it a myriad of famous people on your phone? Absolutely not. No, I'm not a celebrity hound at all. I'm not interested in that sort of thing. I just meet people in the course of work usually and I like them and I want to keep them in my life. Miriam, before we get any further, are you hungry?

4:31I'm, as Jewish people say, I'm chalishing, which means my whole body is contorted with hunger. I think it's time for a snack. Now, I've asked you to bring in your ultimate comfort snack. If this is a hug in a mug or a bowl, it doesn't matter because nothing is off limits here. Could you reveal your snack and explain to me what it is? So what it is is some chicken soup and chopped liver. And there'll be some nice Jewish bread in there for me to spread things on. I'm not sure if it's a challah. Right, I'm going to give you the soup. Oh, thank you. Oh, that's it. Is it good? Oh, it's hit the spot.

5:20Oh, my God. Oh, I love the silence that's entered to the room. That's a good chicken soup. Anyway, if you don't finish it, I'll definitely have it. And if you've got a spoon, you'll see that there's actually a matzo ball in it. Oh. Which is a dumpling, a sort of Jewish dumpling. So tell me first about the soup. Oh, look at the huge matzo ball. When would you eat chicken soup? Well, at every possible opportunity. It's my favourite food. and it's what I remember from my childhood, of course, when I was little. And you can get proper chickens then. Oh, my gosh. This is a lot of chopped liver. Tell me about the chopped liver.

6:05You took the biggest helping. Sorry, I stand corrected. Miriam's already getting quite knarky about the sharing. Yeah, I do. I do get it. Oh, God, I was hungry. Do you feel better now? I'm having a bit of the chopped liver. What's it like? Earthy. Do you make it yourself ever? I have made it myself, but I'm not a specialist. I'm not a cook. For example, matzo balls. My mother made matzo balls with ground almonds. and I could never do that. I just don't know how to do that. But I love it. I'm just disappointed that you took one. Miriam, you're my first ever guest to bring a bib to the show. Really?

7:02It's essential. It is a wonderful, enormous red toweling bib. I'm not going to lie. It looks like it may have been to two or three other meals. Yes, it's not clean. It was all I could find, actually. Why the bib? Well, they stick out, you know. Your breasticles. The breasticles. And I don't want to spoil my clothes. Yeah. So I wear a bib because before my clothes got spoiled and I got second course in my bra. So this is superior. It feels like a freeing part in your life. It feels like you're saying to me that you've fought with crumbs most of your life. And now you're like, I bring my bib. I'm safe now.

7:58You were born on the 18th of May, 1941. Which makes me 84. That's quite old. How does it feel to say that, 84? It's always surprising. and I think any old person you talk to will say where's it gone what's happened that I'm now 84 I just can't quite credit it it's funny because no one more than you can say where it's gone it's documented you've never stopped working no and that is surprising because I now feel that I'm successful. And I didn't feel successful for many, many, many years. And I wasn't. When you arrive in this world, you're the only child of Joseph and Ruth. And you said you arrived in the world like a cannonball.

8:49Did you always feel that extra little bit of zing about you? Yes, I think so. And that was from mummy, because she gave me confidence because she loved me so much. She said to you you were conceived during an air raid. Was it down in the underground or something like that? Oh no, no, no. It was in their house. Oh. In the cellar. Because there was an air raid so they had to go down to the shelter in the cellar. And then it's dark. Dark and they were scared and they were together. Past the time. I think a lot of people were born like that. Yeah. And then you came along Nine months later. But by then, the house had been bombed and they'd moved to Oxford because that's where the car was being repaired.

9:41Miriam is now eating the chopped liver. Is that good chopped liver? Needs more onion. Okay. I often bring an onion with me, but I forgot today. Do you bring an onion in your handbag? Yeah. I mean, if you've got one in the kitchen, I'll have it. I heard once that your father used to ask for a daily bowel movement report. That's true. It's hard not to tell people, actually. I feel called upon to report. Size, consistency, frequency and so on. When you told him, did he give it like a mark out of 10? Could he tell you what you were lacking? Well, if I didn't have one, he was worried. So that anxiety has always transferred to me.

10:31What kind of people were your mum and dad? They were very different. They weren't the same person at all. They were very different. Mummy was quite contentious. She didn't care. She got what she wanted. Daddy was basically slightly frightened, I think. I think he was frightened of mummy. I know I was. When she was cross, her eyes would flash blue, ice, and you quailed. You really did. Did your mum cook? Mummy cooked what I would call good plain Jewish cooking. She knew how to roast a chicken, fry fish. She was an excellent fish fryer. Chopped liver. She knew how to make apple pie. But nothing kind of French.

11:26It was all Eastern European. Did you love mealtimes at home? Of course I did. I loved mealtimes. I mean, there was just the three of us. They didn't drink. They only had, you know, soft drinks. We didn't believe in alcohol. And it's funny because I still find it difficult to offer people alcohol. And I won't pay for it in a restaurant. If I take people out, I say, you know, you do the drinks, you buy what you want. You can have anything you like to eat, but I'm not buying you drinks. And I think it's mean. I think I'm, you know, not very nice. You don't drink? I drink gin and tonic. Okay. And I'll buy them a gin and tonic and that's it.

12:11I'm not buying wine.

12:222025 marked the 80th anniversary of victory in Europe Day now that is 80 years since the end of World War II what do you remember of wartime Britain? Well I remember ration books and queuing up in Sainsbury's we did go to, there was a Sainsbury's then Mummy had to give the points in. I remember prisoners of war marching in the street in Oxford in blue overalls with POW on the back. I remember my father's patients with the tattoos on their arms of Auschwitz and Buchenwald and Belsen and Meideneck. I don't think I ever asked what they were but I remember seeing them on their skin. When you think about rationing.

13:14Do you remember powdered egg or any of these things that people talk about? I remember that for some reason we got extra olive oil. I think it was because he was a doctor and it was supposed to be for syringing ears or something but we used to use it for food of course. Do you remember the E-Day? I do remember Vijay. Mummy said, we're going to give the bus crews sandwiches. And she was brilliant at sandwiches, really brilliant. She could cut tomatoes so finely. She made tomato and cheese and onion sandwiches, and she made egg sandwiches. That was about the variety of it. And we had probably margarine.

14:04I don't know if we had butter, because that was on the ration, definitely. We put it out on Trestle Tables and Banbury Road, which was the number two bus route. And Daddy had lots of patients who were in the bus crews. And one of them, I remember, Mrs Penny, which was a great name for a bus conductress. When they came up to our house, they stopped. and I was given a plate to hold and Mummy lifted me up, holding the plate to the cabin of the driver and passed through the sandwiches. Why bus drivers? Was it because they were people that had given so much during the war? I don't know, it was just Mummy's decision that that's who she was going to market with.

14:53Okay, yeah. And so we did and it was really super. I mean, it was a lovely experience. And I do remember that. And I remember the bunting all over the place. And Mummy had written a song called The Victory Song. And we went to the theatre, the new theatre, where I played and played in my life. The orchestra played it. And we sat in the stalls and listened to it. It was very exciting.

15:32In 1960, you enrolled at Cambridge University, reading English. Now, when I think of Cambridge, I think of academic excellence, of course. I think of bicycles and bookshops, Sir Isaac Newton and Stephen Hawking and the boat race and carols at King's. But paint me a picture of your Cambridge, of Room 301, Newnham College. Well, it was in an old hall, which was the first bit of Newnham to have been established. My room was, I think, on the top floor, looking out over the street. It was not a huge room, but it had nice windows and a bed, which was made for you. We had bedders who came in and made the beds.

16:27Oh, lovely. It was lovely, actually. That was lovely. I've never made a bed. I just can't bring myself to do it. You don't get up in the morning and make your own bed immediately. No, I've never done that. I've never made my own bed. I've always had someone else to do it or I haven't bothered. And that started at university. I'm afraid it did, yes. When you arrived at uni, were you a very confident person? Was this the party room that people came and sat in? I think it probably was. I wasn't totally confident, but I knew I was a nice person and I knew I was an entertaining person. And I always had cake and crumpets in common stock, which was what we used to call the kitchen.

17:17So people used to enjoy coming and talking after we'd done whatever we were doing that evening. I was usually rehearsing at the theatre. Up until now, your diet has been eating with your mum and dad and quite Jewish foods. Do things change when you get to Cambridge, the things that you're eating? Is it more formal? Do you sit down and eat dinner? Well, there was a formal... We had breakfast. I loved breakfast. I've always loved breakfast. And they did very good scrambled eggs and toast. And, you know, that was fine. I wasn't used to breakfast at home. and we didn't really have breakfast, and we never had cereals or anything like that.

17:59I think that's very naff, and cornflakes and all that stuff. Do you still feel like that now? Well, funnily enough, for me, a bowl of cornflakes is a bit of a treat. So I quite like cornflakes, but not often. I mean, I don't possess any. I haven't bought any for years. But if I'm staying with someone and they have cornflakes, I won't have it for breakfast, but I might have it for tea. University is a time of firsts. First time away from home, first loves, a first class degree if you're lucky. What firsts happened to you at uni? Well, I'd certainly experienced sherry for the first time because the thing that students did then was sherry parties.

18:45OK. I don't know if they still do that now, probably not. but I went to a sherry party. I didn't know you had to watch sherry. You know, you shouldn't just go for it. And I had 17. I've never forgotten that. That was really a baptism of fire because I just, you know, wolfed them back and enjoyed it. And I remember that the sherry of choice was Tio Pepe, which is an amontillado, and it's quite dry. and I like that. I don't like things over sweet. And after about 15 cherries, I wasn't feeling myself, you know. And then I realised that I was probably going to be quite ill and I was shown the loo and it was a nice old house and they had a crapper, you know, a Thomas crapper loo.

19:39Like an old-fashioned. An old loo with a lovely pattern on it, which I got to know quite well over the next few hours Because I think I was in there for about three or four hours just spewing. When was the next time that you drank sherry after that? Because you never drank it again. That was the end of that. Those tea experiences. I never got drunk again. Never. Ever. Ever. I've never been drunk since. Wow. No, it left an impression. I bet you were tremendously entertaining for about the first 12, though. Yeah. That's about what it's like. I'm quite funny for the first gin slightly less funny and a little tired by the second and then after that it's curtains Cambridge you performed with Footlights now founded in 1883 it's one of Britain's oldest student sketch comedy troops when you're there at Cambridge the cast include most of the founding members of Monty Python and you, despite women not really being allowed to be in this troupe, you do manage to be in there.

20:53Well, they always had a girl, but usually it was somebody, you know, beautiful and sexy and pulchritudinous, but in my case, that wasn't so. I was there because I could act, and I was thrilled that I was invited to be in it. And I thought, well, I'll have a go. You know, I'm going to do my stuff. And I hadn't realized how competitive the men were. Yeah. And they really were. It was ferocious. So not welcoming. Well, they were to start with, but I don't think they liked me. I think they found the attention that I got being the only girl in a cast of, I think, about eight of them. I think they found it tiresome.

21:47Do you look back at that time with happiness or still sadness and anxiety about that? No, I resent the fact that I remember it bitterly. But I do. They were horrid and they wouldn't speak to me. They wouldn't look at me. And I'd do the show and then I'd come off and be kind of cancelled. and I resent it now and I wish I didn't and I think I should have got over it, but I haven't. Did you come off stage and they'd all kind of gone and left and gone to the pub without you? No, they were there. They just didn't see me. I was invisible and it was horrid. How did you cope? Not very well, I would cry, but I never, for some reason, and I never said, why aren't you talking to me?

22:40What's going on, arseholes? You know, I should have fought for myself, but I didn't. Did you have good friends that you could go home back to? Oh, yes, back to my Newnham rooms. Yeah, yeah, that was lovely and I did talk. Did you have hot chocolate and eat biscuits and snack them all off? Yes, McVitie's chocolate digestives. That is comfort food, actually. I could have asked for a packet now, but... Just dipped in tea. Well, I've never done that, no. I've got a mouth and that's where they go.

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24:41Dairy milk caramel, PG tips, both comfort eating favourites. Not so much anisole, anisole, although I'm sure some of my guests may have used it. Now the link here is that you have been the voice of all three among countless other products. I still can't quite believe I'm saying this. In the 1970s, your early career flourished because you were recognised for vocal talent. But the Capra is bunny. I know. Miriam, it's one of my earliest memories. One of my earliest sources of joy is sitting in Aldershot. My dad was in the army and sitting on a brown sofa listening to your voice doing that. When you came on the screen as that bunny, it was you.

25:34I know. I regret, actually, that I have done things which were wrong. You know, I remember I blacked up. I've blacked up. OK. And I've sold cigars and chocolate, all of which are naughtinesses, and I shouldn't have done that. Do you know something? Then the first one, I don't think you can get away with. The second one, cigars, people still smoke them. Chocolate, come on, you're allowed to say that. Is that really that naughty? The amount of happiness that Cadbury's Caramel has given me over the years. Well, I'm glad. So delicious. It is delicious, I know. Which is your favourite one that you ever did?

26:18Well, I think it was the PG Tips with Stanley Baxter. I think I was Ada and he was Dolly. They were chimpanzees, weren't they? Yes, they were chimps. They were chimps. And we voiced those chimps. And I had to say, it's the taste. And I loved it. And, of course, working with Stanley Baxter, who was a great genius and a darling man, and he's still alive. He's 99. Oh, my God, that's just unlocked a childhood memory, that. You must have spent an awful lot of time in Soho in those little booths doing voiceovers. Yes, we did. And I was really coining it in. I mean, I did eight a day sometimes. That's the dream.

27:05It is. That is the dream. And now I do cameos, which is sort of the same thing. Yes, people get in touch with you via cameo and ask you to do a sweary message. Well, very often they want me to fart. And I have to try and explain that I haven't got them stored. If they're there, they're there and I'm happy to share. But otherwise, tough shit. Have you sold a cameo of you farting? Lots of times. Oh, my. Miriam. I mean, because it's requested. It's only if it's requested. I love the fact that you feel like it's a moral duty to make sure you honour that. Well, if somebody asks you for something specifically and you're able to do it, you should do it.

27:53I can't always deliver. You're such, and I'm sure your partner has said this to you many, many times, you're such a contradiction. Won't do chocolate adverts, will break wind for money. Actually, that's true. I never thought of it like that. I never thought anybody would ever ask me to You know this time you were coining it in Because with voiceovers in 73 You buy a house in Clapham Common Where you still live You install five or six friends in this house To help with the mortgage And to cover renovation costs Paint me a picture of now You're 32, your career's up and running You always say, you've said it a few times here That you weren't the pretty one and the footlights.

28:45But when I see photos of you then, you were very beautiful in those days. I know, but I didn't know that. Massive, these enormous brown eyes. I didn't know it. Loads of hair, like booby, huge bosom. So what was 31, 32? What was that like? Well, it was okay because I was gay and I knew I was gay then and I'd met Heather and, you know, that was going well. But I think I was beautiful, actually, but I didn't know it. I really didn't. I made excuses for myself because I was always fat and I was different somehow. I was the other. But actually, I was rather gorgeous. Were your 30s fun? Yes, they were.

29:35They were fun because I had work and I had love. And I had a nice place to live. I think that those years were good years for everybody. It's only now that everything's turned to shite. We live in terrible times. You know, the world is suffering. And it's a shame. If I take you back into the 70s, there was a huge thing that happened in that your mum died. and you've described her as the most important person in your life and you've said, she has never left my side. And I do wonder now, speaking to you, how much of a part she does play in your life now. Yes, she's still with me, of course. And I want her to be.

30:28I don't want ever to leave her side. She was an exceptional, brilliant, remarkable woman. who loved me with her whole soul and gave me all the things that make my life rich and special. I'm much more critical of her than I used to be because I think that she had faults, but I don't know anybody's mother that was as good as mine. Yeah, you wouldn't have swapped her for anyone else's. No, I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't. That's the thing. And I was lucky that, for example, my parents allowed me to stay at the school that they put me in because it was expensive and I wasn't the cleverest. And if you were really clever, you got a scholarship.

31:21I didn't get a scholarship. They had to pay for me. As you've got older and you've understood her more and become more critical, what is the thing that you've found to criticise or you've found to go, actually, this did happen? I think she was too competitive. and I think that's not always a good thing. She should have moderated her longing for me to be best. She always wanted me to be best and with the best people. But it's funny because by the 80s, I would say that you're coming into a part here where you are with the best people. Oh, yes. You're on Blackadder. You're on Little Shop of Horrors.