S5 E10: Gregory Porter, singer-songwriter

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:07I'm Grace Dent and this is Comfort Eating from The Guardian. A podcast where we pay homage to the lesser celebrated foods in life. Because even as a restaurant critic, I believe the food that matters most is often that snack you cobble together when you're curled upon the sofa. Each week, I ask my guest to lift the lid on what comfort foods have seen them through their lives. Because you can tell a lot about a person from what they eat behind closed doors.

0:50Just microwaving a mug of custard. Since this is our last episode of the season before Christmas, I'm giving a nod to Yuletide and concocting a rather saucy little festive snack. Absolutely delicious. It's the final episode of The Run. It went very quick, didn't it? Have you heard the rest? If not, go and listen right away. you could start with Nadia Hussain's episode where I don't want to brag but she did tell me she wanted to paddle with me in a rock pool of melted butter or you could try John Ronson's episode where he revealed that he used to hide in hedges and then there's Jamie Demetrio's episode where he confessed that he had only recently eaten his very first egg not a word of a lie Absolutely true.

1:40Go and listen to it. Our guest today is none other than the American singer, songwriter and actor. It's Gregory Porter. I can't quite believe I'm saying that. He's coming to my house. I'm a tiny bit starstruck, if I'm honest with you. Gregory Porter has been Grammy nominated no less than seven times. He has twice won for Best Jazz Vocal Album, winning millions and millions of fans across the world. He's toured almost non-stop for the last decade. You might have seen him on your TV screens, on Strictly, Glastonbury, Jules Holland, Graham Norton, all the greats. Now, he's an all-American, smooth-talking musical legend.

2:26You might also know his iconic headgear, that black Kangol hat with the ear flaps. Like everything he does, he nails that look. He's got an album coming out called Christmas Wish. So I'm having a little morsel of a mince pie. Just a little mince pie for Gracie to accompany this custard to get me in the mood. It's going to be here soon, I better go on with it. Here we go. I am plopping the mince pie into the lake of custard look at that I love custard I love mince pies mmm mmm oh my god Christ stop stop stop this is this is now mmm

3:30Gregory Porter, welcome to Comfort Eating. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Glad to be here. You are originally from California. These days, you live back in the golden state with your family. Sunshine is part of your DNA. Yeah. Please, can you tell me, however, some things that you are loving about the British wintry weather? Well, you know, I actually like the power of weather. And I don't mind the rain. It just gives me a certain feeling. But have you ever got back to your hotel room at the end of the night with just entirely damp socks, which is our natural state here? Yes, yes, absolutely.

4:11I'm not saying I love that. I didn't say I love all things. All the water gathers on the side, then you just get completely covered by a bus. Yes, that has happened to me. walking to a nice dinner at a nice place and I got splashed because I'm confused as to which side you guys are driving on anyway we're confused so I wasn't paying attention and this bus it got me good I mean good filthy water too and I went to dinner like this did you just start it out I was just like you know what this is how we're gonna do it it is that time of the podcast where I find out what my celebrity guest has brought me as their favorite comfort food i do not know what is under this tea towel okay gregory porter please unleash the snack i'm working on that as a slogan i don't know if it's going to work unleash the snack thank you okay explain what's in front of me please okay well uh this would be a cappuccino and my sneaky late night snack, which is chocolate chip cookies.

5:19What we've got in front of me is one enormous chocolate chip cookie and then three smaller ones and then a kind of vanilla one that's got chocolate chips in it. Which instinctive one would you go for first? I go for the traditional. You're one of those maniacs that on a night, just when you're feeling lovely and sleepy and cozy, You go, I'll tell you what, I'll have a macchiata. I can sleep on coffee. Can you? Yeah. Yeah. Do you not just lie in bed, like, thinking, oh, my God, I've got to play the Albert Hall, like, worrying about things? That's early morning. I wake up at 4 a.m. and worry about things like that.

6:01Yeah. When did you start eating chocolate chip cookies? Well, my brother, he had this girlfriend in junior high. and she came over and they made chocolate chip cookies together. And I'm sure I had a chocolate chip cookie before that, but he's my older brother. Did I kind of have a crush on my brother's girlfriend? You know, too. Yeah. And suddenly beautiful girls in your house. Yeah, yeah. The beautiful girl in my house making cookies and I got some too and then it turned into, oh, that's my favorite cookie.

6:42you're currently on world tour performing at some of the most beautiful venues across the planet Kennedy Center, Royal Albert Hall now I don't want to embarrass you but I'm going to your voice has been described wait for it as a creamy baritone that flows thick and smooth across a rich gato of juicy melody it's a food podcast wow How do you keep the cream flowing? Something that doesn't go with cream so much, but ginger, honey, and lemon. I do that before the show. I try to get enough sleep, but it can be difficult traveling. Some years I have 250 shows a year, and so I'm traveling hard. How do you stop getting ill?

7:31Because everybody wants to talk to you. Everybody wants to hug you. People are trying to kiss you. How do you do all these dates? I don't know. No, this is it. Exactly. As you're speaking, the answer is you are superhuman, aren't you? You've basically got some constitution that just somebody comes and splutters near you. And your body says, not today. No, but let me tell you something that happens. This is an interesting thing that happens, is when I'm recovering from a cold, there is a richness in my voice that's even more so than my regular voice. And so, yeah, I kind of like to step to the microphone after I've had a little cold because my low is really low.

8:17I can, you know, old man river. I mean, it's just rich and flowing.

8:31When you're not touring, home is Bakersfield in South Central California. I've been to Bakersfield. Wow. It was my first ever trip to America. It was about 99. And I was coming back from Vegas. Did you say it was your first trip? It was my first ever trip to America. Wow, okay. And I was coming back from Vegas. And we were driving back to San Francisco. It was a road trip. Yeah. And we arrived in Bakersfield. And I was just a young woman, you know, with a load of people in a car. And I remember getting changed in a burger place car lot. Would it be In-N-Out? Yes, there would be In-N-Out. Do they have In-N-Out?

9:14Yes. Yeah, so I've been to Bakersfield and all I've done is been to an In-N-Out. Is there other things to do there? Funny enough, In-N-Out is one of the more exciting things that you can do in Bakersfield. There's always a huge line. Everybody loves In-N-Out. You grew up there in the 70s. You were one of eight children. You were raised by your mom. Dad wasn't largely around. How, and I'm always fascinated whenever people come on here with big families because I was from a little family. How does your mom manage to feed eight children? Yeah, this is what's amazing to me. She fed us well. I remember extraordinary meals.

9:58I don't take good care of myself. as a grown man. And she took such great good care of all eight of us. Yeah. Plus other people. Miscellaneous. Plus our friends. Plus cousins. You know, she was fantastic in the kitchen. She comes from a family, seven boys and seven girls. There was 14 of them. And she was one of the older daughters. So she was cooking a lot. She had all of this magic that she would do with one pot, dishes. You know, mom would come home, we'd be at the door. The little ones would be like, mom, there's nothing in the kitchen. There's nothing to eat. Nothing to eat. She said, hold on, baby.

10:42Let me see what's going on. You know, there would be a couple of frozen pieces of bacon in the freezer. Yes, yes. A bag of rice, a can of peas, some seasonings, and, you know, half stick of butter. And we're like, there's nothing here. 45 minutes later, this magic, you know. She also would do this thing, you know, it's like if there wasn't enough, she always had this trick. You can make a gravy for anything. There's two pieces of chicken and there's eight children. we'll make a gravy and we'll break those two pieces of chicken up. And now you have a gravy to go over the mashed potatoes. She informs all of my cooking, most of my music, and who I am as a man.

11:32So, you know, she gave me a lot and I'm still using it.

11:48So condiments, fundamental to the main event in American food, so I think in mustard, ketchup, mayo, do you have these things on the table when you're growing up? Ketchup, but mostly hot sauce, Louisiana-style hot sauce. My mother's from Louisiana. So there, that's got to be on the table. I mean, I think I put that on any and everything. Yeah. I asked the controversial questions on this podcast. Do you think that condiments like hot sauce, ketchup, etc., do they store in the fridge? Answer carefully and I'll take your first answer.

12:32And I want to understand your answer. So please show your workings. You know what? Because you do what your older brothers and sisters did. So I'll say yes. I put them in the refrigerator. I almost don't know why I do it. I like very soft butter, but I always put the butter in the refrigerator. That's just a world of pain, Gregory. What are you doing that for? That means every time you go to use the butter, it'll be shredding the bread. I have a technique. I slice the butter very, very thin, and it just melts on the bread. Do you ever try to melt the butter over the toaster just to try and make it?

13:10Oh, yeah. Just to show you know that is, I've been told that's a fire hazard. Yeah, yeah. And I really shouldn't. We've done that. Oh, yeah. I've done that many a time. We've done that all the same. We've done it. You know. You put a piece of buttered bread inside of the toaster. You've done that before, too. In the toaster. Ladies and gentlemen, don't do that, please. Don't do it. Don't. Don't. No. Wow. You just.

13:34Go on. It's so funny. It's just a simple conversation, right? Yeah. You just brought this memory, this memory of, I remember calling my mother. I remember sitting on the counter. For some reason, we had to get up on the kitchen counter to call my mother. I don't know why. When I was particularly little, calling her at work. And I was like, Mom, I want something like a dessert. I want something sweet. And she was like, okay. And I remember getting white bread and she said, put hard cold butter on the bread and sprinkle sugar on the bread. And she's like, you'll enjoy the taste of the cold butter and the crunchy sugar.

14:27Yeah. And I remember taking a bite. And then she described what it was going to be like. And I was like, wow, this is, and I was really little. Yes. So cold butter. Yeah. Wow. Fantastic memory.

14:55Hello, Grace Dent here. One more thing. If you love comfort eating, then you'll love my new book, Comfort Eating, what we eat when no one's looking. It's available order now. There's an e-book and an audio book if you want me to read it to you with chapter headings like why butter makes everything better and why potatoes are proof of a higher power. How can you resist? Comfort Eating is packed with funny, moving stories about my family and my childhood, as well as recipes and stories about recording the show.

15:39I love that you say that your mum was feeding miscellaneous people. How did that happen? Was she quite known in your community? Yes, very much so. She was a minister. and we had a cafe called Jiffy Cafe in Bakersfield. And it was very busy because she was always giving food away. We gave more food away than we sold. Not great for business, really. She would make these interesting sandwiches that weren't on the menu up front. Some slice of a roast meat in between two pancakes. yes just something to keep you alive right and and they were really good because she was so creative and creative out of the box whatever she needed to do to feed people yeah we talk about food on this podcast a lot being linked to love and but with you i think your story more than ever it's like food is really bound up in love and kindness for you isn't it yeah yeah absolutely Her desire to be a person who fed the hungry and helped people with housing and clothing, her desire to do that.

16:54I mean, she had to have a foot soldier. So her eight children, we were her work crew. And we were often the ones that would take the bag out of the car and deliver it to the front porch, take the plate over to mother so-and-so's house or whatever. And so even though we didn't prepare the meal or curate the box or the bag, we were the delivery boy or delivery girl. And there was some great feeling in that as well. How did you not end up as a minister? Well, if you listen to my music, somehow, I think, I've told my mother, I said, Mama, I don't know if I'm, I don't think I want to be a preacher.

17:39And she was like, that's okay, son. I remember we were riding in her car. And I said, Mom, I want to be a singer. But I like gospel music, but I want to sing about love. And she said, baby, it's okay. God made love and you can sing about it. And it's so funny. These conversations. I remember what street I was on. I remember what height I could see on the dashboard. I was eight years old. And it was such an important conversation that even informs the content of my music right now. She would take me, when she would go to preach at other churches, in the middle of her sermon, she was like, I wonder would my son Gregory come and sing a song?

18:24Of course, there was no wondering. I had to sing. What did you say? What was the one that you, if you had to just write, just go now, what was that one? Something beautiful, something good All of my confusions he understood All I had to offer him Was brokenness and strife But he made something beautiful of my life I used to shake up the church with the songs, but I never felt internally powerful. I always felt like the power of music, and I still feel that way. It's like this thing that's separate from me, and I'm just like a thing that delivers it, you know?

19:30paint a picture of what you're like about 13 14 years old what were you like i was a good athlete i was really tall at 13 i was about six foot tall i had this growth spurt and i was singing singing a lot. I was using music as a healer and a diffuser. Being six foot tall, sometimes people thought I was older than I was. And somehow I had to diffuse myself as a threat. And often I would use songs to do that. So if I was walking behind a lady who was clutching her purse or something like that. And I'm singing, in her own sweet world, populated by dolls. If I'm giving out this good energy, then they know it's like, okay, that's not a threat.

20:22That's just a good young man. I was in a way diffusing people's negative feelings that they might've had about me. In your late teens, you graduate from high school. You go to college in San Diego on a full athletic scholarship. Okay, this must have been quite the step from home. You're on the coast, beautiful beaches, surfing. You're on the border of Mexico. I mean, this isn't Bakersfield, is it? This is not Bakersfield, right. I remember going to visit San Diego. It was my first time on a plane. And everything was just so green and beautiful flying into the city. and once I was going to school there I remember missing those things that made home home and so that's really when I got into to cooking because I wanted to replicate the feeling and the smells of home it was probably missing my mother yeah most people get to university and what we live on is cereal, Pop-Tarts, and things that we buy from 24-hour garages.

21:37I'm getting the feeling this wasn't happening with you. No, I never got down like that. I was cooking quite grown-up meals. I mean, you know, collard greens. And I remember being in my college apartment, sharing it with four other people, and I just cooked a turkey in the middle of... They were like, what's the occasion? What did your roommates think of this? What did they think? Well, they enjoyed the meal, but either they came from households where the kitchen was made to look at because they were like, there's grease flying in the air. And there's, you know, I was like, yeah, that's what happens when you fry chicken, you know?

22:19So they would get upset at me because, you know, I was really trying to recreate. So there's, you know, bloody cut up chicken over here. There's flour all over the counter over here. Bushels of greens soaking in the sink. And I'm like, what is this? I just came in here to make a tea. But I was really using the kitchen in my college years. I think you're really brave to go, to go to college and move and leave. Because it feels to me like you were a bit of a home bird. Yeah. You know you loved your mom. You loved being with your brothers and sisters. You loved the cooking. You loved everything. And you felt secure there.

23:01You had your ways, your coping mechanisms, and going down the street and singing and delivering food, and then you left. Yes. Well, it was interesting. It was a very difficult time because my mother was diagnosed with cancer at the end of my freshman year in college. and there was a desire for me to go back and take care of her and be there for whatever she needed. But she was just always saying, no, no, no, stay in school. Keep, you know, keep doing what you're doing. You're talking about being torn and pulled in two different directions. You want to be next to her, but she's telling you to stay in school.

23:45That's what's most important. But it was, you know, And even to this day, it even happened to me the other day. I was like, what if? How would I feel now if I would have just taken off a year and gone back to take care of her? So you still feel, even though she told you to not come back, but you still feel as if you should have gone and... Well, because I know I was special to her. And we had a really close, intimate relationship. relationship and we could talk about anything. I was serious, serious mama's boy. If you couldn't tell. Do your brothers and sisters say you were the favorite? This is the hip thing about my life.

24:28Are you the favorite? This is the hip thing that my mother did. She told me, she said, Gregory, if it wasn't a sin to have a favorite child, you would be my favorite child. So now listen to this. So at the dinner, the reception after my mother had passed away, you know, we're all talking and we're sitting at the table. She's like, you know, all my brothers and sisters, we're trying to be celebratory of her life. Yeah. Like, brothers and sisters, I just want to let you know that mother said about me, if it wasn't a sin to have a favorite child. and then my sister finished the sentence you would be my favorite child yeah she said that to me and then the other brother said she said that to me she said she had said it to all of us but she meant it most for me she meant it for you though but she said to all of us it's you know

25:31so at college there are two big things happening at the same time your newfound freedom and then there's your mum's illness and that's pulling you in different directions but there's another huge thing happening at this time and that's music and the development of your voice How does that happen? The thing that helped me with my mother's situation about her, in a way, slow decline, but health decline because of cancer, was music. And so I started to go to jam sessions and different theater groups trying to find a way to vent and express myself emotionally. and I think because I've always used music as an emotional outlet people are always like what is this thing in your voice what is this this emotion is what you hear I'm only coming from that place music is emotion for me not the lines and dots but you're cooking as well aren't you are you cooking and singing what what's this I am yeah what is this thing that's happening yeah after After college, I get a job working in the kitchen at the Chopra Center as a prep.

26:50And whilst there, a famous meditation center, something extraordinary happens. Tell me about it. Yes. Yeah, Rosa Parks, a great civil rights icon, came to the Chopra Center. And I just had to sing for her. I have no gift worthy of royalty, but here it is. This is what I have. And her favorite song happened to be my mother's favorite song, His Eyes on the Sparrow. So I sang for her, and it was one of the biggest gifts that music has ever given me, I think. Yeah, it was really just a really special moment. for me. Why should I feel discouraged? Why should the shadows fall? Why should my heart feel lonely and long for his heavenly home.

28:02With Jesus as my portion, a constant friend is he. For his eye is on the sparrow and I know he watches over me. Yeah. How did Rosa Parks react? It was beautiful. She lit up and she was like, come here, come here, baby. And she took my hand and was like, that was wonderful. That's my favorite song too. You sang it so beautifully. She said, yes, baby. I carry that with me, yeah. If this was the movie of your life then, you would immediately hang up your apron and never cook again, right? Right. So from that moment on in the movie of your life, you would then just pursue a future in music. Is that what happened?

29:03Let me tell you what happened. We were at the place where I worked because I did everything. After peeling potatoes, I would have to take the trash out. They were like, I feel so strange, you know, making you take the trash out with a talent like that. And I was like, you know, this is where I am at the moment. But they started to treat me different and they started to let me go out on auditions. My employers wanted to get me into what I was supposed to be doing. And that happened. I ended up joining a musical. It's a massive leap from that to your first CD of your voice. And this kind of suddenly happens.

29:48Well, it is a sudden moment that took 20 years to happen. To be a 20-year overnight success. Yeah, because really the start of a music career is really a bunch of ups and downs. It's like something's happening, nothing's happening for months or years. Something's happening, you know, you're just waiting for that moment to take off. And at the point at which I said to myself, I'm just going to be me. I'm going to stop looking for somebody to come and make me and create me. And the moment that I kind of just not gave up, at the moment I said, this is me. That was the moment that I really started to excel.

30:34I found my voice.