S6 Ep 7: Cat Burns, singer

0:00This is The Guardian.

0:07I'm Grace Dent and this is Comfort Eating from The Guardian. A podcast where we pay homage to the lesser celebrated foods in life. Because even as a restaurant critic, I believe the food that matters most is often that snack you cobble together when you're curled upon the sofa. Each week, I ask my guest to lift the lid on what comfort foods have seen them through their lives. Because you can tell a lot about a person from what they eat behind closed doors. Hello friends. You find me today in my bathroom, readying myself for another comfort eating guest. I always think about beauty when I'm having someone as fresh-faced and young as incredible songstress Cat Burns around my house.

1:02She was only born in the year 2000, for goodness sake. Now, I'm indulging in my own skincare routine here. It's a multi-step routine. only two steps i am washing my face with something i've got at holland and barrett and then i'm uh shoving on something that is to be honest it's basically glorified vaseline at my age i have finally realized that none of these potions or serums are going to turn back the clock on this forehead. Honestly, the more expensive the bottle, the more likely it is to give you eczema or just a dose of conjunctivitis. It's the truth. None of them are going to soften this furrow between my brows, which if we're very honest, I could put a thong on.

2:07And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the kind of old woman common sense that Gen Zs do not want to hear. On which, let's get to my guest. She'll be here in a minute. Singer-songwriter Kat Burns has had a meteoric rise in 2019. She was busking on the South Bank and today she is a platinum-selling songwriter. Kat Burns was the biggest selling British female artist of 2022. She's won three Brit Award nominations. Her single goal reached number two in the charts in 2022. And she received a nomination for the Rising Star Award at last year's Ivor Novello Awards. Oh, and she supported Ed Sheeran on tour.

2:58But what I want to know is what do you eat backstage when you're supporting Ed Sheeran on a stadium tour? And what's for dinner when you need to write your next smash hit? It's a good question, I'll put that on my list.

3:22Kat Burns, welcome to Comfort Eating. Hello. Where did you come from today? Milton Keynes. It's kind of like America. Yeah, because it's new. Because it's new and everything is 10 minutes away from each other. Yeah. But there's no lights. So it's just roundabouts. See, I've failed my driving test quite a lot and I'm really bad on roundabouts. So I would just have to get Uber everywhere with that. My sister was an anxious driver. Then we moved to Milton Keynes and she's a new woman now. Sounds like the Milton Keynes tourist pod. I really enjoy it. It's going to turn out you are sponsored by them.

3:56Oh my God. It's going to turn out. Oh no. I'm really not. I just love it. Every week, my guest brings me their go-to glad tidings of food joy that fills their tummy with comfort and warmth. Cat Burns, please reveal your snack. Oh gosh. Oh, okay. Right. Do you want to explain what it is? You don't need to. I'm going right in with my fingers. It is tomato and mascarpone pasta. Absolutely delicious. Hang on, sorry. I hope you don't. How do you make this? It's got onions, garlic. Tell me the technique and tell me when you would eat this. Okay, so the technique is you cut your onions really small. You cut your garlic really small.

4:48Pop that in a little pan. It's got some heat in it. It's got a bit of heat in it. And then you add your mascarpone, you add your chopped tomatoes, and then you add some chili flakes. You add some all-purpose seasoning. I love you. Okay, go on. I'm still going to know that. And then you add some all-purpose seasoning, some aromat seasoning, and then some Italian herb seasoning as well. When did you first have it? I always loved pasta ever since I was young. and to start I used to have just like tomato pasta that was just what I used to have and then I met my now girlfriend Jodie and at the beginning of the relationship I'm pretty sure she was like oh you know you could add like some some cream or some mascarpone into this and it can be like a like a creamy pasta if you want and I was like what is this creamy pasta you speak of and she made it for me and it was honestly like a light bulb of just like this is my new comfort meal it was like a weird switch in my head where I was like that is now what I'm going to be eating every single day and that's what it's been almost every single day but it feels like there literally was a moment it was you went from a time before to a time after yeah it's a whole new world it's a whole new world you were born in 2000 you grew up in stratham south london with your mum and your older sister um okay take me back to stratham paint a picture of your home what's going on now probably rushing my mum to get me to school on time and us being late when my mum had to drop me to school we were always late there was just lots to do it in the house so we'd always end up getting to school a bit late the music playing in the house only on like a particular day and I want to say it maybe it's like a Saturday or a Sunday and there's just random music playing that my mum knows from like the 80s and the 70s.

6:58So your mum into gospel? Yeah. Did she sing? Yeah my mum used to sing when she was younger so did my grandma as well but my mum used to sing a lot she used to sing in bands used to do loads of performances. Did that make you think you could do it? Well when I was born she kind of gave that all up to to raise her children so it wasn't then until I was like a teenager where I guess you get your time back as a parent when your kids get a bit older and she just started to go back to doing choir stuff. But we always say that we feel like it's been passed down through generations, the gift of singing.

7:34Your mum's of Jamaican heritage. Does this influence what you eat at home at all? Yeah, yeah. My mum would make a lot of ackee and salt fish. She would make a lot of curry goat and rice. She would make a lot of jerk chicken and then she would always make soup on a Saturday. my mum's soup is just it has like dumpling and potatoes and carrots and just a real good like Jamaican soup that I guess my granddad would always make on a Saturday as well my girlfriend had it the other day and she was like oh my gosh can I come over all the time on Saturdays to have some soup and I'm like no we'll see we'll see because the soup is a tradition and it's just lovely.

8:21So tell me about mealtimes what were they like? We are quite an odd family I mean we're quite individualists really we make our dinner well when I was younger we didn't really the space in our house didn't it wasn't very big so we had a dining table but we just didn't really like it and it wasn't really used and it's kind of pushed up against the wall so we just ended up just get our meal on a train go to our rooms and watch our own shows and we just we all like to watch our own little shows and we more come together when there's like a show that we all want to watch together rather than a meal but now we're trying to start eating dinner together and chat and catch up about our days so when you're a kid you're like you get your stuff and you're like look this is all very nice yeah what did you want to go and watch what was it oh it would be whatever's on whatever's on the telly at that time I mean probably like random cartoons Disney Channel CBBC and my mum is the same like we're we know how to share but we don't like to and my mum never has liked to share ever so she would just get us all like these are your chocolates and this they're on this shelf of the fridge these are Kristen my sister's chocolates that like everybody just has their own thing.

9:39Yes. But what happens if you've already eaten all of your stuff and then you come in and Kristen, she's got some Ferrero Rocher left. It's one in the morning. She's not around. The thing is with Kristen is that she sees the detail on everything. Absolutely everything. If anyone drinks a little bit of her drink. Who's wrapped my drink? Oh, please. I just wanted to have a little sip. Who's drank it? Was it you? Does Kristen mark on a carton? No. She just knows. She just knows. Have you ever watered down Kristen's stuff when she wasn't there? Because she'd know as well. She'd just know. So with Kristen, I have to ask.

10:23Have you ever eaten the Ferrero Rocher and then tried to form it back into a ball and put it into the box? You might hate me. I've got brothers. I don't even eat Ferrero Rocher. Why not? What's up with you? I don't know. Have you not tasted them? They're absolutely delicious. I think the shape of them and the packaging of them just put me off. I just think I looked at them and thought, I don't think I want to put that in my mouth. Well, it's been nice to have. That's just not my go-to chocolate of choice. What is your go-to chocolate of choice? A crunchy. I like the honeycomb in the middle. I'm asking all the big questions.

11:01You are. You are. You are. you have been very open about a recent diagnosis of ADHD and autism you've said that you're someone you love order you love predictability you like calm and when I hear that I think how was school for you oh I did not like school I went to two different schools I went to Brit school from year 10 until year 13 but before that I went to another school from year seven until year nine and I just did not like school I couldn't really keep still but I think with a lot of young girls who are later than diagnosed with autism or ADHD it's not seen or we fly under the radar because of how we're socialized as young girls so I may have been fidgeting underneath the table and moving around but I wasn't gonna speak when I'm not allowed to because the rules are you're not allowed to do that and you follow the rules um almost like a swan exactly I always describe myself as a swan like I seem everyone always says oh my gosh you seem so calm but I'm not internally I'm like underneath everything what were you like back then what kind of kids were you really quiet I was really quiet um and then loud with like specific friends and family but it was always if you got me talking about something I'm really interested in like Marvel or comics or movies or like my favorite movies like I could talk forever about it if it wasn't any of like my special interests I would just mute and like wouldn't speak is that a power is it a power to go quiet it is I mean I I do it now in my day-to-day life like if I haven't got anything to say I just won't say it and I don't find it awkward I just I haven't got anything to say and I'm I'm either a deep conversation person or nothing at all small talk for me I can't god I wish I could be like that I just can't do it I mean we know the weather's bad outside why must we repeat it

13:18for all the confusion of our teenagers food is often a sanctuary i know that you spent many a happy hour in fast food outlets in streatham i'm going to say something shocking about chicken shops i have never been to a morley's because they're a south london thing they just don't have them out east for me morley's is like such a south london place um and i started going from when i was in like year six year five year six once i could start kind of going home by myself have like one pound or two pound could get some chips from morley's it was a dream it was an absolute dream we were all probably like 10 10 11 all going in there going oh can i get this please acting like we're grown-ups when we're literally 10 asking for some chips and then chicken cottage I've ended many nights having a chicken cottage with my friends it's just my comfort of things like if I know okay I'm going out tonight and the end of the night I just want a chicken cottage or I just want a more leaves just want some wings and some chips I once left uh chicken cottage and I left without paying and I and I got chased up the road by the guy that owned the chicken cottage I was drunk did you run did you run away from him I thought it was a man chasing me so you just ran yeah I bought a bag of chicken and I was drunk a few years ago and I was like thank you bye and then i left the chicken cottage it was in wood green right and i was like walking up the road and i was thinking god first of all i just thought somebody fancied me i'm like he's very insistent and then he was like picking up his step so i picked up my step and then after about about a quarter of a mile he said madam can you give me the money basically my cards i can go through oh no but it was always open that's the thing that place it didn't matter what time of day or night it felt like chicken cottage was there for me oh I love a chicken cottage um your parents split when you were about seven tell me about your dad my dad was a charismatic man he was quite silly um and he would like to be the life and soul of the party he would like to make everybody laugh he'd like to be the one to give everybody advice um but I think that wasn't very mirrored wasn't the same then when we were in just us just us in the house and I think that just became too much for all of us um so they split when I was about seven me and my sister were quite relieved we were like yeah I think that is the best thing to happen right now you don't hear that very often you know no we would we were relieved and I think my mum was as well and we could all just breathe and I think if he was still in the house I don't think I would be doing music or or any of what I'm doing now I think he was very like you just go to university you need to get a job you need to kind of follow this straight and path.

16:37What was it about him when you shut the front door and he came in what happened? I don't know I think I think now in hindsight as an adult I think he was just a flawed human and he had lots going on in his own life but I think when you are a parent you are responsible for children and there are you need to show them love you need to show them care you need to show them consistency and show them that you're responsible and he struggled with that do you mind if I read you some of your lyrics yeah you don't mind no so it's uh about your dad and I find it's really moving um called I don't blame you um and you say you were the source of all my unhappiness and I was way too young to understand why you left or why you chose to see me less oh I was such a mess and could never rest god I just find I I just find that uh it's very raw I wrote that when I was 18 um and funny enough I think I wrote that and then a month later he got diagnosed with cancer so it was a weird it was a very weird time period and still to this day people message me about that song but that's a song I just can't sing I just can't bring myself to sing it never because I knew I needed to make it for myself as like some healing and then I put it out and it was really well received and lots of people had similar relationships with their dad and it was very healing for me because he got to hear it and and was like wow I'm really sorry we weren't able to have like a as deep of a conversation as I would have liked but he heard it and he respected it which is all I could have ever asked for really when you lose a parent you're estranged too so you don't have that much of a close relationship with them it's a different type of grief than than when you're really close to them because I think when you're really close to them it's a complete shock and it's a wow I need to learn this new version of myself that is without a parent but when it's an estranged one it's mourning what could have been what never was um it's a very weird very weird grief is just love every time you feel it it's love with nowhere to go and so every time I do feel grief I'm like that means that I'm capable of loving and that to me is quite beautiful

19:34I'm gonna bring it back around to food just a little bit yeah because during hard times we sometimes do need something that's just a bit sweet especially if you're in a house there's bitterness there's anger flying around my parents used to argue when i was young and i used to go upstairs and i was quite partial to a cornetto what's a cornetto do you know i feel you don't like ferrera roche and you've never had a

20:07Is it chocolate? A cornetto. It's like, do you know an ice cream cone? Yeah. But it's wrapped and it's got ice cream at the top. Oh. And it's quite expensive. It's in the ice cream. You know when you pull the thing across, you've got your calippos. You're going to ignore them. They're not good. You move them past the magnums. Yeah. Right? And you're like, ah, a cornetto. Wow. And it's like, you eat it, the ice cream. then the then the wafer and then at the bottom right at the bottom there's a bit of chocolate and that that's the holy grail that's the part like solid so what was your thing that you might have ate that was sweet when you were young that made you feel better oh i had a few because i do have a big sweet tooth i had screwballs those are my favorite things have you ever heard of a screw ball so you've got the uh like a gobstopper at the bottom yeah yeah a lovely little bit of gum it has it to go yeah get them from the ice cream brand yeah yeah it's a lot oh i love a screwball i don't know if they sell them anymore it's really sad if they don't um they have they do sell screwballs do they yeah oh i love a screwball fab love a fab i love strawberry ice cream i love toffee ice cream like toffee ice cream i love toffee ice cream have you ever had but scotch angel delight no i haven't is it it's like from my generation i'm just handing that down to you at any point you can go into any shop get a sachet and you just add water and it's it's like a toffee kind of a toffee instant whip you have it at any point wow honestly it's just there it's there it's there waiting for you butterscotch angel delight that was the first thing that i bought when lockdown happened i was like okay we're going into a pandemic but i'll tell you what if it's the end of the world i'm going to get a lot of these sachets before the factory gets overrun by zombies and i just went and bought as many sachets as i could sat in the house do you know what that makes sense that makes sense you have performed now in front of thousands and thousands of people you've supported ed sheeran on the european and u.s stadium tours but you used to be really nervous on stage and it was a primary school in year six that you finally pluck up courage and perform.

22:30What happens there? How do you know that? Because I've been spying on you. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I did. I did a little talent show when I was in year six and I sang, I sang Who You Are by Jessie J and I was very nervous. Hang on, at 10 years old, you sing a Jessie J song. For my age, it wasn't too bad. It wasn't too bad. I mean, one parent of one of the other kids came up to me and my mum and said, you've got a gift. make sure you never give this up you've got gift all right you've got gift and I said all right okay how does that feel though I think when I think back I was like I think that was quite a catalyst moment for me where I was like oh maybe I should try and sing some more and do some competitions and do other things so then I did Britain's Got Talent okay that's a fact you didn't know or did you know that already hang on a minute I'm just gonna update my graphs you did Britain's Got Talent what did you hang on who did you sing in front of Simon, Alicia, Alicia, David and Simon said no what yeah he said no he said I was flat but I still got two yeses from the other two so I got through uh but I remember I had my mic still on and this was probably a sign from early age that I was definitely had a neurodivergent brain but they had to film me leaving and I had my mic still on and my mum was obviously playing oh how do you feel like oh I was like I don't know why he said I was flat because I absolutely wasn't flat and he doesn't know anything about singing he can't sing he's rubbish what's he talking about why did he say I was flat I wasn't flat so what's he talking about I just could not stop it got me I felt really angry that he decided to tell me I was flat and I was really upset and then my mum was like and I was like what what are you talking about and then I looked out at my mic and I went oh and they said that'll be all thank you and I thought I've never I'm never getting through did they put that were you on tv well they filmed it just in case that was that was shown and they showed me for like one second on the telly of them doing the ex how do you feel about Simon Carle now I see I don't actually care I was only a child um yeah Yeah, but come on.

24:49If you walked in somewhere, so you walk into a party and he's there. The first thing you spot is these really, really high trousers. I'll just stick my tongue out. At 14, you start at Brit School. The alumni include the likes of Adele, Amy Winehouse. Now, I want to believe that when you get to Brit School, it's just like loads of people walking up the path. They've got leg warmers on, tutus. people are singing and dancing in the corridors um getting on the table at lunchtime that's what i want to believe people are like hey let's let's sing this out and you go is it like that do you know what it it is people aren't in tutus and like the the the high leg warmers but it is very dramatic like there are many stories but there's do you ever feel like just going shut up to them oh yeah I mean there was one time where I think the theatre students were having to do something like some sort of exam or something but it meant that they were standing on tables during lunch and doing their lines at us going wherefore art thou and I was like I just want to eat my lunch please please please please and there was another one where they were doing to show like bad relationships, but how sometimes it can be the woman and sometimes it can be the man and the roles can change.

26:17But we were walking to our class and they were standing right in front of the door. This couple who we thought were a couple were having an argument. He pushes her. We go, Oi, what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? They go, abuse can happen in relationships all the time. We were like, Oh my gosh, I just want to get to my lesson and you've just tricked me. And then they restarted it again where then it was the woman and then tricked the next group of people again. So that was what it was like going to Britsgall. These people sound like a lot of hard work. Yeah, it was.

26:58You leave school in 2018. You write the song Go. That will eventually lead to a stratospheric rise for you during COVID. before all that happens you start busking at the south bank in london now i i can't even imagine the the braveness that this takes how does that go you this is the busiest place i think yeah in london yeah the most tourist filled place at any time of the day or night yeah Yeah, it was very character building, a lot of character building because you're singing to people that didn't ask you to sing, number one. And then you are also asking for money on top of that. What is the ideal reaction from a random passerby?

27:50I just want them to give me some money and leave, to be honest. I mean, for me anyway, busking was my job. That was my quickest way of earning some money so that I could still be able to go to studio sessions and do other things on the side. So you're down on the South Bank. The question I really want to know is, did you ever form any strong relationships with those people that paint themselves to look like Yoda and kind of like hover? You know those people? And the people that they dress as like an Elizabethan queen? So on the South Bank, when I was there, there was one guy that made himself completely silver.

28:26You know, the ones that sort of look like they're on a chair, but they're in the air. Still, I asked him and he was like, I can't reveal what I do. And I was like, it doesn't make any sense. How are you just sitting in the air? And you can't see a string. There's nothing. But he was really nice. And it was weird to see him like moving his mouth and speaking like a normal human. and then walking over to his spot and resuming to his position or just like walking home once he was done. That was crazy. How did they get home at the end? They just take the bus. Dressed as like tinfoil Yoda. They get on the bus and they go home.

28:59That's what they do. And then COVID hits. You and your mum and your sister, you're living together in Streatham. Is it back to meals on a tray in your bedroom? Yeah, I mean, honestly, COVID for me, and my family we are homebodies anyway so it was yeah it was meals on a tray back in our rooms just watching shows. London becomes a ghost town there's no music on the streets in bars in venues a silence descends but the music does continue online and this is where you really find your groove tell me what happens then I decided to start making videos and just post all the time um I posted I think like three times a day on TikTok I was just like very consistent um and I think it worked at that time because I think people wanted to just hear people sing and wanted to escape what was going on in the real world and people just liked what I was doing and I think it was quite a steady growth on social media for me which was really good because it helped me build like a bit more of a community.

30:19Around this time you try to come out to your mum, how was it? How did it go? I think I went into my mum's room about three or four times before properly coming out. I kind of would just show her videos of other people coming out to their family and she would go oh that's lovely thanks and then I'd go all right bye then I'd leave then I'd come back in again show her another video she'd go oh that's really sweet oh bless them and I'd go yeah bye then leave again come back in and then she was like why do you keep showing me videos of people coming out like it's what are you are you trying to tell me something and then I was like I think I'm bisexual and she was like okay and then like three weeks later I was in the kitchen and then she came down and was just talking to me for like age she just had a million questions that she needed answered and she was like okay so what about what does this mean what are that and we had like a long conversation and she was like cool I understand now um and my sister she I just told my sister and she was on so what kind of girls do you like then and I was like straight to the point I was like please stop we're not having that conversation thank you I just would like to alert you that that is a revelation in my life now and she was like okay I love this idea of you all in your separate bedrooms yeah I had to go to each bedroom and alert them of the news yeah since lockdown your career has absolutely flourished now as a woman with neurodivergence and a love of clear communication, a hate of ambiguity.

31:59How have you found the music industry? Oh, it's, yeah, it's difficult for somebody who likes order and who likes plans and who likes clearness because the music industry is everything but. It's notoriously last minute. It's notoriously unplanned. And there's just never enough information given about anything, which is to me just like puts me in turmoil. So my team always like to say that I kind of go into like autopilot mode where it's almost just like standby on the television. Like otherwise, it's just so much to take in. You've supported Ed Sheeran. You have performed with Sam Smith. The important thing I need to know, though, is backstage, someone like Ed Sheeran, his entourage is just hundreds of people strong.

32:58Do you ever get to hang out with Ed? We went to a gay bar in Poland, of all places, together, which was a wild experience. And Polish drinks are not to be messed around with at all. I always like asking about celebrity riders. Do we even use that word anymore? Yeah, yeah, yeah, my rider. What's the strangest thing that you ask for? What's the strangest thing that I ask for? I've had an obsession with soft mints ever since I was a child. And because they make either the blue soft mints or the green soft mints, I have different eras with them. Sometimes I'm a blue soft mint type of mode now where I'm like, I want blue and then I want green.

33:40So then I'll tell my tour manager, please, could you ask them for some blue soft mints? You've mentioned that you find it quite hard to try new things, but when you're on tour, how do you cope with that? I don't, I don't cope with it. I struggle. I think touring is my biggest struggle that I know is something that I, it's inevitable I have to do. my main struggle with touring is the food it's food and it's being away from my routine and my home and my room when you go to different countries they have different delicacies they have different ways of making things and that's something that I just struggle with because I I'm experimental with food but I'm also not because I can't deal with certain textures of food i can't deal if i'm having a savory meal and something sweet comes in there i can't deal with that like what so you're eating something it's savory and then there's just a random sultana in there just something sweet that through my whole that's it i'm done i can't eat the rest of the meal because i go well that's not what i was expecting sweet is for dessert that's not for my my meal so then i i struggle with that's i'm not laughing it's just the fact that you're like that was very nice yeah I will I'll put it to the side as soon as I taste it and I go oh I can taste some sweet my stomach's like it just closes it goes all right then thank you so what food are you craving when you're miles from home love a steak and chips that makes me happy um a nice little cheeseburger that also makes me happy I mean no restaurant has been able to make any tomato mascarpone pesto the way that I make it I once heard that the rolling stones when they went on tour one of them started traveling with his own hot plate like to be able to cook food in his room because it started to drive him mad that he couldn't just have hind soup that makes sense yeah maybe I'll do that yeah that makes a lot of sense then you could be in your room then I could be in my room despite the heartbreak that has been spun through your songs you have found love you're nearly four years into a steady relationship tell me about first time you saw jodie we met on hinge and i saw her picture and i swiped right and then it said that she also liked my picture so we matched i had a little look at her on instagram last night i can see why you swipe she is very beautiful she's very pretty she is isn't she she's like a doll she is that's what my mum says that's what my mum says my mum says wow Jodie's just like she's got porcelain skin it's just lovely she's so lovely um we met on in then in real life and we just got on instantly just kind of spoke day in day out up until the middle of the night just talking about everything any and everything and then they always say with with queer women you move at the speed of light um so we did we got together after like three weeks but we spoke every single day and the rest is the rest is history is it extra difficult letting people into your life when you as we say you know what you know you like what you like it must be hard to bring someone in she was the one that urged me number one to get an adhd diagnosis and then number two to get an autism one because she just noticed certain things about me there's certain things that's so hard it's like my brain is very plan like i like organization i like plan so if we schedule and say we're seeing each other on saturday she says can i see you on thursday i go no because we're seeing each other on saturday and she's like but you're free on thursday so why can't i see you on thursday and I go but that's not the plan that we had initially scheduled if you had said can I see you on Thursday then I would have done that or if I'm meant to leave her house at a certain time and she's like stay longer and I'm like but I'm supposed to leave your house at this time and that's where she'll be like I just want to shake you

38:09You have had such an amazing four years. You've put so much out into the world that has connected with people. But now you're on the road being a pop star. Do you worry that you'll run out of relatable material to fill your lyrics? um no I think I always try my best to have two feet firmly on the ground I I'm always hanging out with my friends I'm always learning I'm always watching things I'm always I'm such a people watcher and an observer that I think as long as I keep living authentically and being open to receiving life in in all of its highs and lows I think my music will always hopefully be be relatable you're not gonna just write loads of angry songs about your tax bill no I'll try not to do that oh I would would you yeah yeah it is annoying it is quite irritating but I wouldn't do that no your songs are very autobiographical so my most important question is what are the chances of one song being written quite soon involving coming to this house and dealing with all the cat hair in here I think it's really likely

39:41I think it's likely

39:48Loads of cat hair on the floor A cat meowing That's all you're getting You're welcome I'm quite emotional about that I don't know why Yeah you absolutely hate small talk this has been a lot of small and big talk how painful has it been on a scale it's been lovely has it it's been lovely we've spoken about things I've never spoken about before this is lovely Kat Burns yeah thank you for comfort eating with me thank you for having me

40:29this episode of Comfort Eating was produced by Ruth Abrams The executive producer is Lucy Greenwell. The music was written by Axel Cacoutier. Visuals by Sophie Harrow. Mixing and sound design by Solomon King. If you love this podcast, then you'll love my book, Comfort Eating. It's a slice of joy sprinkled with nostalgia about my family, stories of the making of this podcast, and recipes which will leave you, well, frankly, bewildered. Finally, go on, leave us a review and you can follow or subscribe so that you never miss an episode.

41:18This is The Guardian.