Arsenio Hall

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28:11Going back to your origin story, your dad was a preacher and very charismatic performing preacher. And you're looking up admiring this guy. And you talk in your book about how it meant the world to you to try and please him and that you're still trying to do that to this day, you go through, and I know what you're talking about because my parents are very loving. I wanted attention from them. I wanted to make them laugh. And that is kind of the chemistry behind everything you do. And here I am all these years later and they're gone, but I do think there's still part of me that's trying to win them over.

28:52And so there's so many things in your book where I go like, oh my God, I understand. My dad's a microbiologist. He's not a preacher, But it's the same thing. Did he want you in the family business? I kind of think he wanted all of us to get into, one of us to be a doctor. And then he quickly saw these idiots. I don't want them operating on me. So he was happy that I got into comedy. But I mean, my dad wanted me to be a preacher so bad, Conan, that he would bring me, holding my hand, into the pulpit on a Sunday morning and sit me down next to his guest pastor or assistant pastor. And so my life was watching the congregation and watching my dad from the back.

29:33As a matter of fact, in Coming to America, when I told John Landis about my background, John Landis, the director of Coming to America, he created these shots. When the preacher's on stage at the Black Awareness pageant, he created these shots that were really me describing to him my experience watching people. Yes, Lord, that's what I saw. I saw that lady. I saw my dad from the back. Well, you know, I was, again, we're jumping around, but I love this because I have it in my notes, like coming to America with like - This is how my standup is. Yeah, I know. But it's just like Miles Davis on some kind of fentanyl.

30:07Yeah. You know, it's like, boom! But this I like. Back then! Back then!

30:15Sound of that! Yeah, that's right. Um, he leaves the stage and then he leans back in. I'm sorry. But no, but this is how it's going to be because this is the best way. But I have coming to America like 75 exclamation points because, yeah, Eddie's great in that film. You are so good in that movie. That is such a great performance. And I remember when you were the preacher and I didn't know that your dad was a preacher. And then I read in your book that, of course, you could play that part. But I think you channeled your dad. My mother was a male barber, so I was able to channel her in a barbershop.

30:56I mean, and I also didn't know that you made Coming to America while you're waiting to kind of hear about whether or not you're going to get your own show. Yeah. And there's this downtime, and that's when you and Eddie, who were friends at the time, and he brought you in, and suddenly you're making this movie together. That's some project before you start your big show. Yeah. And they turned Coming to America down. We went and pitched it at Paramount and they said, no, thank you. And we were like, give us some notes. What should we do? And they were like, we're not sure, but, you know, it's a fish out of water.

31:30We've seen this a billion times. And coming to America at that time didn't have the barbershop. It didn't have the preacher. It didn't have Eddie as the old Jewish man. It was a guy named Ned Tannen, I believe, who was running Paramount, who eventually gave us notes. And he said, everybody wants to see Eddie do characters again. Everybody misses SNL. How about if the people you meet in America are played by Eddie? And I was sitting there saying, could I get y 'all a drink?

32:02and uh and it's eddie that said hey i saw arseneo do stand up on this hbo thing and uh he does this thing about jesse jackson i know he can do a great preacher and we can come up with some barbers and eddie came up with with uh the specific characters and i just uh sat there shaking because i'm like i gotta do characters with eddie murphy that's like saying you know uh check Jordan, you know, lock that motherfucker down.

32:34Whoa. So I was a nervous wreck. Sure. Going into coming to America. You're great. You're great in it. Thank you. It really holds up. And this I need to explain to people because I don't know if people understand the trajectory because it's really fascinating. There's a whole part of your book I think people should read because it's really lovely about you as a kid. you take up magic um we also have something else in common i was a different kid as you can imagine and you're a you were a different kid we both had names no one had ever heard before yes so you're arsenio i'm conan i don't know if you have the same thing but my dad didn't even know about conan the barbarian that wasn't a big thing when i was growing up it wasn't like a known thing yet so people used to get really hung up on my name and i'm a strange kid with like a giant pompadour and they're like, what is this Conan guy?

33:29And I swear to God, sometimes if they give you a name like that, it makes you become something interesting. It's a weird theory, but you're a one name celebrity even when you're a kid, you're Arsenio. Yeah. And people must've thought, what the hell is an Arsenio? Yes, yes. Because there are no Arsenios anywhere. There never has been an Arsenio. We've done a national manhunt for an Arsenio. I did something like that a few years ago, and there are like 18 of them now worldwide, and a lot of them were born around when the talk show was on. But back in the day, you were in Cleveland, and you were at the basketball court in the ghetto of Cleveland, and people are picking up, and it's like, I got Leroy.

34:13Let me have no neck. Tyrone, you with us. Arsenio? And you're there in a magician's hat. Yeah, let's put it. Arsenio's got in a magician's hat. Yes. And you're like, well, look what I can do. I'm like this motherfucker with a cape dunking on me. You know? Oh. And you, and people need to know, you were really serious about, you were really serious about the magic and you took the magic pretty far. You were good and you were getting up on stage and you were - Getting on TV shows. Getting on TV shows as a magician. I mean, people don't know that. You were the real deal. They flew me to New York the first time I ever left Cleveland.

34:59They flew me to New York to do a PBS show. And I did my Vanishing Candelabra, which was something I'd never done on television. So you're that guy. And then at one point, someone sees you do your act. And you, of course, funny is in your bones. you were being funny in between the tricks you were doing or the illusions you were doing. And someone said, more of that, the comedy. You should be doing the comedy. It kind of hurt my feelings, though. Because back then, my soul is, you know, I'd had dinner with Harry Blackstone Jr. My soul was that of a magician. And when this guy, Hank Morehouse in Ypsilanti, Michigan, says to me, you should get rid of the magic.

35:46And do you know what a stand-up comic is? You should be a stand-up comic. Because I would take tricks. Like, I had a trick where you tie two handkerchiefs together. We call them silks. And I put the handkerchiefs in your shirt. And then I'd take another silk, which, by the way, this became what Ali was doing in front of the playground. When you saw him, you saw him. Yeah. So, so I do this, this silk disappears and it appears between the two that are put down here in your shirt. But what I would do is I would do the trick twice. The first time I'd get a lady from the audience, I'd put the two silks in her shirt.

36:23And when I first pull them out, her bra comes out in between

36:30two silks and i'm 10 yeah you know you know you were canceled at 10 wow that's hard to do and now you can't even you can't even touch a lady's oh no you know so so this guy was saying you're making adults laugh and i i remember and then i do the trick again And I make it happen correctly when the silk appears in the middle. And I remember Toni Lipford, a little girl who lived in my building, when I went to New York to do this and went to Colon, Michigan to do the convention, she would let me use this training bra. And it was important because my mother's bra and all my aunt's bras, they were like parachutes.

37:13They were huge. You know, I had, you know, my aunt Mabel, she never had a bank account. mom made it she used to have 400 and a kleenex at church you pull the broad 30 000 in quarters go flying and two people died from suffocation but tony lipford loaned me a little training bra because we were the same age and it was one of those bras that almost has no cup yep you know and that that was easy to use and make that trick work. So someone sees you, you start doing standup and, um, this is when your life takes a major chance because you're doing standup. You're getting really good. By the way, in Cleveland, uh, while I'm watching TV one night, uh, my grandmother's in Cleveland at the house I'm living in.

38:07I'm in Kent at Kent state. I'm watching TV and I see a street, you know, how they interrupt the news. I see a street and it's on fire and these houses are burning. And one of them looks like a house at the corner of my grandmother's street. And I realized the whole neighborhood's going up. That's my grandmother's house. I jump in the car and I drive from Kent State to Cleveland. My house burns down that night. And that's where all the magic equipment was. So I was forced to get funny and get more bras. Yeah. But it's like divine intervention again. It's like, okay, I'm going to be a stand-up. And you start to get to the point where you could get potentially a booking on the show, Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.

38:54But their booker is like, yeah, you're not a Johnny guy. You're not a Johnny guy, which, you know, is now sounds ridiculous and insane. But I get it. The show had a distinct personality. You know, you have a stationality. I wasn't surprised when I saw Dion Cole on your show. You have a stationality that's very specific to your brand of humor and your demographic and everything. And for me, I got that Bobby Kelton and Argus Hamilton, those were Johnny guys. Those were the gatekeepers at Tonight Show. Yeah, and Johnny liked them. Tom Dreesen had done, you know, 4 ,000 Tonight Show appearances. Right.

39:32And I waited for Joan to go on one Monday, and I knew I was probably more a Joan guy. And I got on the first time with Joan and then got to sit with Johnny when I... Coming to America. Coming to America. So to instruct everyone who doesn't know, this interesting thing happens. Joan Rivers is a frequent guest on Johnny Carson's Tonight Show. She gets offered her own show. She does it, causes a major feud with Carson because he does not like that. She's on Fox. She does a show. It implodes. It doesn't work. It comes apart. But you had gone on that show. Yeah, as a stand-up. As a stand-up, you had been successful on that show.

40:10And then when Joan leaves, they need someone to kind of, this thing's still on. Yeah, they got 11 weeks with just a set. And Joan leaves. She's not coming back. I think Edgar, her husband, killed himself. He did. Yeah. So that ship had sailed. And they went through a lot of guys letting them have the show for one night. From Wally Cox to Malcolm Jamal Warner to Suzanne Somers. because I remember Suzanne Somers did very good. And in the end, they were choosing between me and Suzanne Somers. Wow, that's so, so you come on and then they more or less say, hey, Arsenio, you're really good at this. Why don't you just, this show is ending, but why don't you take over till it ends?

40:53Now, here's the thing you don't know. That show ends and there's kind of a feeling like, wow, that Arsenio guy did really well. He's gonna come back, okay? And here's the thing you don't know. There's a replacement show after Joan's show. Wilton North. I do know this now. Okay. So the Wilton North report gets announced. This guy is going to put on a show. There's no host for it yet, but they get some writers before they even have the host, which is kind of unheard of. And I get this call and my writing partner and I go in and we get offered jobs to write. We need work. We haven't worked in a bit.

41:26So we say, sure, we'll do it. We don't know what this is. Who are the hosts? They said, we don't know yet. We're going to find them. And so one of the first meetings we had, you were still, I think, finishing up your show and we were just having an early introductory meeting i leave and i heard there's and i go says is there anything to eat around here in the go you have there's a snack room in there i go into the snack room and i see you and you are at the refrigerator getting something and i said oh i knew who you were i'm like that's that's the guy who's been you know you weren't holding down the fort you're holding down the fort and and i was like oh hey and you were so nice to me you're like oh hey you were very gracious and you were like i am so i am so I'm so glad this story goes like that.

42:06No, no, no. Excuse me, white meat. Well, you did call me white meat, but you were very nice about it. You were like, you are really white meat. And I'm like, well, white meat. Yeah. And then, no, but I remember you being really nice and I went back to the room and I went, oh, hi, hi. Cause I was, you know, super young and there's a guy who's been on TV for a couple of weeks and I knew, I recognized you and that's like a big deal. so i was like oh i just saw the you know the guy is it arsanio you were just new so we we work on that show we're way behind the scenes it implodes and they hired two djs from northwest right san diego san diego there were two djs from san diego and they they hired them and it wasn't their fault it was just a weird you got to start with the person you got to start with the person you can't Or a talk show, you all know, because you work for Conan, but that guy is the engine.

43:03You can take a body of a car. We've seen this done. I saw Jay Leno. Don't apologize. That's your problem. That's not my problem. I know this guy who's a mechanic. And he put a helicopter engine in a truck. Sure. It ran different than a Chevy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The motor. Yeah. We're the motor. So this mechanic, he was like, he was like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna take a, a helicopter in. Put it in a Chevy, Chevy Chevette. Why are you doing that? Yeah, I don't know. It just seems like it's gonna cost a lot of money and waste a lot of time. So I thought maybe I'd do it. But anyway, whatever this guy's name is, he's having fun.

43:52That's the important thing. This is what I was afraid of. This is what I was, oh my. But, so, this could be my favorite episode ever. Seriously. And I have this man to thank. But, you know, so I met you. Then they decide, okay, this Arsenio kid has something. And Paramount, you get the syndication deal. And your show starts. And here's the thing people have to remember. I remember this very well. Your show started, I think, at the very beginning of 1989, like early January. Yeah, I wanted to get away from the September cluster. That's when they make everyone, that's when I had to go, September 13th.

44:38It's when a lot of shows start. You show up, it's like second week of 1989, and it is a smash immediately. And here's the thing that's really interesting. You talk in your book about your ratings were huge. I think you were second to Johnny that first week. But what you had is you had 35 and younger. Your demo was through the roof. And what's interesting is that was good news for you then. But what you couldn't possibly know is today to have a demo like that, that means you're on the air for the rest of your life. The demo is more important than how many people are watching you. And I think you existed at a time.

45:20For advertising. For advertising, because, you know, now, I mean, for a chunk of my career, it's the demo that saved me. It wasn't that everyone in America wanted to see me. It's the young people who buy things wanted to see me. And that's what made a difference and saved me. I think that you were in a much more difficult time where you had a great demo. And then you're also expected to get everyone in the country watching you, which is complicated. Do you know what I mean? I mean, first of all, you were, I just think that that was a challenge you had that no show can pull off today. No show can do that.

45:59You know, even when you deal with the world of comedy, I had an audience that was loving when I bring on a new guy like Chris Tucker. Yep. But if you like Chris Tucker, you probably don't like Argus Hamilton. You know, it's a different thing. Yeah. And for me to be a different show every night is very complicated. It was tough to balance. And they were telling me, especially around the time when Johnny was about to leave, they were telling me, if you do the right show, you can inherit the king's kingdom. They'll come here when Johnny leaves because we don't even know what they're going to do and who they're going to replace him with.

46:40That was all a mystery. So they were really pressing me at that time because I would get a call from Michael Bivens of New Edition. And Michael Bivens would say, I just signed four guys out of Philly called Boys to Men. And I'm not finished with the album yet, but I would love to tell them that when we finish, they're coming on your show and it'll inspire them and everything. I said, even better than that, Mike, bring them next week. And I've always wanted to put The Temptations on because I used to tour with them and they were my heroes. I want to put Boyz II Men and The Temptations all together.

47:13Like, I want to have 40 niggas doing choreography, you know? And so let's have The Temptations and Boyz II Men. And it's a beautiful line of men performing the old, the new. Yeah. Boyz II Men's idol, my idols, and stuff like that. Paramount was like, you're not going to get Johnny's audience doing this. Right. You know, and so they wanted me to change my persona. I remember one time them saying, could you get rid of the earrings? You know, but that happened. And by the way, that's not a black thing. I've seen producers tell Howie Mandel to take off his earrings, you know, or make them smaller or whatever.

47:53That's just what they think the culture in America wants to see. And I would have like a nice jacket, but my jeans would be ripped, you know. And they were like, there's no reason to have your jeans ripped. You know, one time I carved Adidas stripes in the side of my head because that was happening then. Not for y 'all, but, uh.

48:17Yeah, David, what did you have carved in the side of your head? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The lyrics from Frozen. Oh, my God. Yeah, just like, let it go, let it go. Let it go around his head. That's hilarious. It's really cool. He was in a different culture. He was in the Midwest. But you can imagine when you do something like that, they're like, yo. No, no, no. But here's the thing. They forget that this idea that you have to get everybody into the tent is incorrect. If you want to be ruthlessly yourself, which you understood, and it's always been my credo, you got to do your thing. And if it doesn't work for you, if it doesn't feel authentic, it's your job not to do it.

48:59But you are doing television at a time when you're at the forefront of a lot of this, you know? I mean, there are a lot of people who the first time they saw, I mean, a black person with their own show and it's a late night show, which is, it's just unheard of. So you're the first person doing that and the first is hard. You know what I mean? And you must have so many people that have come up to you over the years and have said like, no, I grew up watching you and I saw whatever, my values, what I liked reflected back at me. And that's massive. Yeah, I get enough love in the streets that I never have to work again, man.

49:39And you forget. You forget. Somebody reminded me in Vegas, I go to see Bruno Mars. And the dude backstage says, I remember when you put him on. And I forget things like that. Bruno Mars was like an embryo. You know, I mean, they were. He was born on your show. You delivered him. Oh, he was performing and slipped in some placenta when he did this one. But you know what? He made it look cool. Oh, yeah. He slid all the way across the stage. Yes, that Bruno. But, you know, his dad and the people around him were kind of secretive about his actual age. But I think he was like five, you know. And I still have people come up and say, dude.

50:24And the cool thing also is they're not always black. Sometimes it's a white dude who's a lawyer who says, we used to stay in and watch you. Then we'd go out on a Saturday night back east. Well, here's the thing you knew. What I could tell is something authentic and new is happening here. And that has nothing to do with race. That has nothing to do with this is just someone who knows what he wants to do and has a vision and is expressing himself and bringing all these different people in. And it wasn't just, I mean, you have people like Prince, you have all these incredible performers come on who weren't doing other shows.

51:05But Madonna is coming up. People that don't do these shows are showing up on your program. Robert De Niro. That was his first talk show. Yeah. I knew I could get him, though, because I had a lot of black women on the staff. You know? Well, yeah. And I said, if he's going to do a show, it's going to be this show. I got a lot of sisters named Tukey on the stand. You know? And at the same time, at the same time while, I love Tukey. Hey, we got it. Where's my Tukey? Where's Tukey? At the same time, while this is going on and I'm experiencing this life, I'm leaving the lot, you know, and there are other people on the lot like Ted Danson doing Cheers or Mary Hart doing Entertainment Tonight.

51:57I leave the lot one night and the guards ask if they can search my car because some instruments from my show, Stage 29, the posse, the band, some instruments have been stolen. And we're supposed to search all the cars leaving the lot tonight. And, of course, that's when I become black. You know, that's when I get too black because you were the host of the most successful show. and don't get me wrong I'm sure Mike Douglas steals you know from time to time when he was here on earth but it was just sometimes you're going through stuff and that's the straw that broke the camel's back in a moment and I did things that I should not have done but I was like you're not searching my motherfucking car did you search Ted Danson's car you're not searching my fucking car I'm a part owner in my show.

52:55And the instruments that were stolen, that's money out of my pocket, motherfucker. I don't steal my own shit. And they give me that shit free. If you want a E3 or a clavinet, you know how many bass guitars I have at home and Fender's just, we're sending you another jazz and a precision in the main, you know. So, it was just absurd. And me and this guy that I was rolling with, we break the gate, you know, the gate that goes up and down. We broke that motherfucker off. Those Those are not very strong, those gates. They need. I think everyone's on your side on this gate-breaking thing. But, yeah, so I got in a lot of trouble for the problems at the gate that night.

53:38But I was just— You got it. That's insane. Yeah. You know, but Lucy Sohaini called me the next day, and she's like, come over and let's talk about what happened at the gate last night. But I was pissed, and I didn't handle it right. And if a young comic asked me for advice, I'd say, you know, don't get into it with the guards and don't break the gate off if they say you can't leave. You know, but I was like, you're going to hold me. You're not going to happen. You're not searching my car and you're not keeping me here. I thought it was amazing doing your show and the L.A. riots start. And I lived in L.A.

54:14then. And it was that was I think I was working on The Simpsons when the L.A. riot. I was. We're working on The Simpsons, and we're on the second floor working on The Simpsons, and we can tell things are, as you know, the air. And where was the office? We were on the Fox lot. Because you could look, you could go on the roof of some of those buildings and see smoke from South Central. That's what happened is we started to hear, we heard about the verdict. We hear that there's violence breaking out. And of course, whoever was running the show at the time was like, well, we got to get this, you know, what does Marge say next?

54:48We don't know what Marge says next. Some of us are thinking, can we just go check the TV? Hold on. Does Homer speak here? I think it should be Marge's line. And then someone went out to get a cup of water or something and was standing on the balcony and saw just all this smoke. Now, at some point, we're all watching TV and we see Reginald Denny dragged out of a concrete truck. He's dragged out of a truck and hit her over the head. Cinder blocks. Cinder blocks, yeah. And it was, you know, it, it, uh, so I jumped in my car at Simpsons and I drive back to my apartment because the, the guy said, let's, let's figure out that Marge line later.

55:26Everybody go home. And so it was a very strange, upsetting, obviously, uh, time. And you were advised, well, you can't do your show. and you said, I'm doing my show. And you had very strong reasons for why you thought it's important for me to do my show right now, which were. But yet, by the way, as an EP, I understood where they were coming from. They were talking about insurance. They were talking about somebody getting hurt. Yep. You know, I got what they were saying, but I also got that this ain't the time to shut up and dribble. Yeah. You know, this is a time for an entertainer to use his vehicle in some way.

56:07And I understood that at that point, I thought maybe this is the night I booked somebody like Farrakhan. I got to book somebody that can reach the brothers out in the street because I think we're about to tear up our own neighborhoods. And obviously, everybody thought that would distract from what I'm trying to do and what's going on. And it would be bigger than the riots. And I said, oh, yeah, no, I get that. And so we got Tom Bradley, Sean Penn popped by, Sinbad, everybody. And then I invited like 200 members of First A &Me, my church. So I put my church, they signed waivers, and everybody sat in the audience, and we did the show that night.

56:50Which a billion things are going through my mind because I also remember Tom Bradley. Sean Penn brought a guy with him and Paramount sent a lawyer out to say, the guy with Sean Penn, we can't talk to him. So don't go over there. And to this day, I said, OK, OK, I had so much on my mind. To this day, I wonder who that guy was. And it's also interesting because from Ice Cube to Minister Farrakhan, I look now at what you guys are going through and being told what to do, what not to do, who to book with Colbert and who not to book. And Trump wasn't in my mix. But it's funny because I never thought to publicly talk about me being censored or publicly talk about them not letting me have someone that I want to have because politically that person is wrong or whatever.

57:41I also remember when I booked Bill Clinton, I grew up thinking that you always bring the other side. And I thought that was a law, but I guess it's changed or it's vacillated a little bit these days. But I remember putting an offer out to Mr. Bush. Yeah. You know, because I wanted both of them. But he can't play saxophone. He can't play saxophone. I mean, tell us about another thing. That's in history books. Bill Clinton with the Ray-Bans playing saxophone. My Ray-Bans and my tie. Yeah. on your show, that hadn't happened. I mean, all these things were happening that were resonating throughout the country.

58:18I mean, that's a moment that's gonna endure. And the thing I'm thinking about is your instinct about have the other side. I think you had this idea of let's open up the house, invite everybody in and see what happens. And if you lead with goodwill, and that's the, because you were always about goodwill. If we lead with goodwill and we get everyone together in a room, I don't have to agree with everybody, but this is going to be interesting. And to me, that's a nice sentiment. And sometimes now people get so locked into being angry about everything that we're not inviting the other people in. Yeah, I remember having the first openly gay stand-up comic on, a young lady named Leah Deliria who went on to do Orange is the New Black.

59:00She's great. She's terrific. She walked out and she's like, I'm a big dyke! And I'm like, whoa, I know Paramount will be over later after the show to talk to me. They're no longer worried about the gate. Forget the gate! What the hell was that? Yeah, it was... So it was tough. It was a tough time because they didn't want any of that. They wanted me to just cool out, dude, and wait for Johnny to leave. Yeah.

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1:00:13So much I'm looking forward to this summer. Me too. You know what I'm talking about? First of all, July 4th is going to be the 250th anniversary of the United States of America. That's a big deal. And just as important, some pretty big soccer games headed our way. Sport. I don't want to get too specific, but let's say some pretty big soccer games are coming our way. On a global scale. On a global scale, that's all we'll say. So much to celebrate this summer, so you got to keep a classic with Miller Lite. Miller Lite has been a true American Pilsner and the original Lite beer since 1975. Were you even alive, Madden, some of them?

1:00:47No, I was not. Yeah, I think that's good because you couldn't handle the beginning of the Miller Lite era. No. It's too iconic. Okay. Here's my summer, okay? Hang with my buddies. Hey, this is a really good iconic soccer game that's happening that unifies all the different nations of the world. What is it? I don't have time to tell you, but let's have some Miller Lite. Clean, finished, refreshing, easy to drink. And when it's hot outside, nothing feels better going down than an icy, cool Miller Lite. It's an all-American summer and it starts with all-American beer, Miller Lite. Go to MillerLite.com slash Conan to find delivery options near you or you can pick up some Miller like pretty much anywhere they sell beer.

1:01:28Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

1:01:38Now, one of the things that I didn't know is that you decide you do this for six years, which is a real stretch. These are hard shows and you're doing it. As I said, you're carrying a heavier backpack. than certainly than myself and other hosts. Or a different backpack. Because I also don't like to put myself in a position where, oh, it's tougher for me. Everybody has some burden to bear. Okay, that's fair. I'll give you that. That's fair. But reading your story and seeing what it is that you were dealing with, I have crazy respect. I'll put it that way. Thank you. crazy respect for what you did and that you always kept it, like I say, the emphasis on goodwill and let's try it.

1:02:28You know, that spirit of let's get boys to men and the temptations and see what happens. That's a beautiful thing. What I didn't know is that you start to burn out. You're like, I think I've got to stop doing this. I've got to stop doing this. I need to put this down. And you go to Paramount and you write them a letter and you say, I'm going to leave. And they they say, okay, well, don't say anything about it yet. And they sit on the letter and they don't, they tell you, you can't tell anybody. So you keep doing your job, but you have every intention of leaving. And then they announce that they're ending it, which is in, I don't have another word.

1:03:07It's just a shitty thing to do. I don't think they realize how important truth is in the long run. You know, in that moment, it's like, ha ha, we beat you. But they don't realize I'm a human being. I'm a person with a legacy. And I want to inspire people to know not just Black kids, but to know dream and you can win. And I want my story to reflect the truth of what that journey was like and what that ending was like. I've seen two books. My son is involved with a bookstore in Leimert Park. And, you know, I raised him right. He could have done it in Beverly Hills, but he's doing it in Leimert Park and doing a lot of business over there.

1:03:45And one day he shows me two books that are about me. And it's one of the times when I said, I got to write a book. I just didn't know how to go about it because I realized I don't even know these books exist or who these authors are. We tried to search one of the authors and it's not even a real name. It was written under an alias. And I'm like, she didn't even want me to know she was telling this stuff about me. So I really wanted to leave a book on this earth that I wrote about me. And it's also, it's really important people to know that you were like, this now needs to end and I want to end it and go out on my note.

1:04:23And then I put the letter in the book. Oh, it's there. And it's remember when you used to fax things and it was on that kind of paper that like a like a cocaine dollar bill rolls back up. Oh, do I know. Do I know. It was that kind of that old, horrible paper. And it doesn't last well. And that creates a misconception that, oh, because, you know, you, you know, very publicly disagreed with a lot of the things that Farrakhan was saying, and rightfully so, but you wanted to confront him about those things and talk about it. And of course, that got everybody freaked out. And so there was this perception that Paramount was saying, because you talked to Farrakhan, your show has to go when you had sent them a letter long before saying, I'm ending this show.

1:05:19Yeah. And they told me, they said, let's get together with a publicist. Let's decide the way to position this and how to send out. Back then, we would send out a press release. Now you tweet. Yeah. Or you do Snapchat so they don't have it next month. I didn't quit. What the fuck y 'all talking about? Show me. Yeah. Show me where I quit. I want receipts.

1:05:45But they kind of fucked me up. It was like a relationship that... That's how these things tend to end. I have to tell you, these talk shows. Yeah. They tend to end that way. You've kind of been through yours with the network. Yeah, you go through this stuff, but... And they have more power and more ink than us, so they're always going to... But then you realize that, you know, I think like you, I've always tried to take the attitude. I was I was really lucky, just very lucky person that easily could not have come my way. And I think I'm a hard worker and I think I have some ability, but mostly it's a lot of luck.

1:06:20And it's so I need to hear that. Yeah. And it's not just talent. I saw Prince get booed when he first hit. I think he was opening for the Rolling Stones. nobody had more talent than prince but it's luck and timing that goes with that talent i know a lot of talented people funny people great musicians that are struggling yeah and and trust me i've made it a life's mission to say you can maximize your chance of getting luck by working really hard and by being a pleasant person to work with but this book also makes it clear that you were you You were working so hard and you had all these different arcs before we got to know you.

1:07:05And I mean, I didn't know anything about the magician stuff. It made me want to cancel this book. You know what I love too? That's in the book. The time that you're outside a comedy club and it's, you don't know Eddie Murphy that long. You guys are just, and you're like hanging out by a parking meter outside the comedy club. Hadn't met him at all. Hadn't met him at all. Yeah. And Kenan Waynes is going to introduce us. Yeah. And you're chatting with him and you confess to him that you spent a lot of your career as a magician. And then he confesses to you that he was a ventriloquist. What? Yes. And here's another crazy part.

1:07:45I talk about this in the book. There's a night, and you'll relate to this. This is just for me and you right here. You ever ask the guest that question and they've decided that what their pre-interview had in it or whatever their publicist told you, they don't want to talk about that. Yep. Yep. So I say to my friend, because I know this is a great area. Yeah. And I know that he, you know, at home, I know we've smoked a joint at some point and he's done senior winces. Yeah. You know, I know I've seen this. Sure. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that shit is funny. And this guy could afford a dummy. Yeah.

1:08:24But instead, lipstick right here. You know, and and so. So I say to him and I know I can I can lay back because this is going to be two minutes. And I say, so you were a ventriloquist. And that motherfucker says, no.

1:08:46Yes. Yes. Wow. But you were a magician. Yeah, yeah. And we go from there. And I couldn't believe he bagged me like that, but he didn't want to do that shit. Yeah, yeah. You know, he didn't want to talk about me. But recently, I've kind of been exonerated from the House of Lies because he did a documentary recently. Yes, that's right. Yeah, and in the documentary, motherfucker decides to tell the truth. You know? But their law on TV, In that moment, he left you hanging. Oh, man. And you have no idea. I didn't feel exonerated until recently when he's on his little documentary. Yep. And he's got a Richard Pryor and a Bill Cosby ventriloquist dummy.

1:09:32And he's like, this is the way I'm getting put in. And he's like, I don't know why this motherfucker put people to sleep. And he's doing this. And I'm like, yes, yes. I told you, motherfucker. He was a ventriloquist, flying faster. That's when you're yelling at your TV at three in the morning. Yes, yes. They have to take you away. Oh, yes. My woman puts me in another room. Let me go, let me go.

1:10:03What's a better episode than this episode? I know, this is fun. You've had some fun stuff. Yeah, guess what? I don't know. I don't know. This is just insane. we gotta I mean we gotta do a part two sometime we really do yes how long have we been in here hour and five minutes hour and five minutes this is much more than we do stand up would go like yeah but you know what uh we gotta we just gotta do a part two sometime I just want to make sure you got to get this book uh Arsenio a memoir because it's beautiful it's really funny it's an incredible story and even if they don't read get the book get the book because you can, if you've got a table that's uneven in your home.

1:10:46Yes. Yeah. Or the microwave, you want it to sit on something sturdy. Or I hate to quote other comics because sometimes that can be perceived as stealing. But I love Chris Rock's take on books. It's like, hide your money because that's the last place a nigga going to look. So get the book and put something in it to hide. Yeah. Yeah. It is. I was so excited today for you to come in. And I'll tell you this, too. I have so many friends, so many writers of mine, people I know who are standups. They've worked with you. They've bumped into you. Universally, everybody says you are unfailingly nice person.

1:11:32You're a really good person. And that means the world to me. Except that guard at Paramount. Oh, come on. I think I'm on your side on that one. I try to treat people the way God would want me to treat people. And I know that sounds corny, but also— No, it doesn't. It doesn't. Okay, you know, but that's where I'm from. That's who I am. And I try. I've fallen short in my life many times. But when I came up, nobody says good things about Cosby anymore. But I remember a time when you could pop by Cosby's dressing room in Atlantic City or in Vegas. And I've had Jerry Seinfeld agree with this. He would sit and talk to you for four hours, give you advice.

1:12:11We'd have conversations. Richard Pryor. I remember one time I opened for Chaka Khan at the Universal Amphitheater. And I was so proud to tell Richard I got a gig, you know, and we're at the comedy store. Richard's working on his special. And he says, I'd like to come to that. And I say, really? I can leave your tickets? And I leave him and his guy, Rashawn, his body man, two tickets. And Richard comes early and watches me. And then when Chaka comes on stage, once you get started, Richard gets up and comes in back. And I know he loved Chaka Khan on a couple levels, you know, not just music. He's a renaissance man.

1:12:50He's a renaissance man and a coxman. And he loved him some chocolate, but he came backstage to tell me, you did a great job. That was wonderful. And that's the greatest moment of my life. Sure. That Richard took the time to come to the amphitheater and then got up and came backstage after the opening act left the stage. So I try to treat young comics and young entertainers that I meet the way the legends taught me, the way the legends treated me. I remember having Quincy Jones come to watch me at the Roxy. The next day he calls me, has me come to the studio, and I sit with him while he masters something called Off the Wall.

1:13:30Oh, wow. That we didn't even know. And he's like, listen to this. This is Sheila E. hidden different soda bottles with different levels of water in it. And it makes different noise. And it's ding, ding, ding. And he just plays that part. And I think it was the beginning to, don't stop till you get it. But sitting there, and he said, yeah, man, Michael coming back, man. He come back hard. And then he played a song. He says, you're from Ohio, right? This is the first time I've ever met him. You're from Ohio, right? And I'm like, yeah, John Levy told me you're from Ohio. Let me play you something else.

1:14:02He plays a song called Find 100 Ways. And he says, this is just a scratch track by a guy who's letting me hear how it can sound. And I said, what's his name? He said, his name is James Ingram. He's from Ohio. He's from where you're from. And I'm saying, let him sing it. And he says, yeah, yeah, this is my first day with the demo. And he puts on his album, Find 100 Ways, in just once, and allows the guy on the scratch track, the demo, James Ingram, to sing it. And James becomes a huge star. Those kind of moments are incredible blessings. And all I can do, in fairness, is try to return them every time I get the opportunity with a young man or your woman.

1:14:42I always hear you do that relentlessly and with great kindness. And Arsenio, we're going to have to do a part two at some point because you have, there's so much more to talk about. There really is. You've got so many great stories. And one day, like they say in our business, we get off script. This was not a script. This was me loving the book and then talking to you about it. I appreciate it. And being really excited that you're here and fanboying a lot. So that's me being me. I'm a fan. You remember I came up to you. Were you outside the Four Seasons Hotel? Yes, I was waiting. And you came up to me and I was like, Arsenio walked up to me.

1:15:17It was so nice to me. Yeah. I'm always that way. You're above the crowd wherever you are. There's a lot of little guys with uniforms running around. I'm like, look at Conan above all the uniforms. How are you? I didn't realize you were that tall. No one does. I have the personality of a very small man. Yeah. But in the paint. Yeah. Oh yeah. Not clean. Arsenio, please come back, okay? Because people are gonna love this episode and we gotta keep it going. Okay? Thanks for letting me come. Are you kidding? Thank you all. He looks like one, new kids on the block. You know? There's a episode. Who do I look like?

1:15:58Which one? Oh, there's a dude in New Kids on the Block who looks like you. I'll say that. My sisters love New Kids on the Block. Yeah, you look like his son because he's probably 50. I think he's 80. But you look like the son of one of Mark Wahlberg's guys. Anyway, but I hope we're off the air at this point. Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend. With Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Corley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

1:16:44Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair. And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. You can also get three free months of SiriusXM when you sign up at SiriusXM.com slash Conan.

1:17:19And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

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