In short
Podcast Notes: Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend - Bill Hader Returns
Episode Overview
- Podcast Title: Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend
- Episode Title: Bill Hader Returns
- Description: Bill Hader discusses his friendship with Conan O’Brien, shares insights on storytelling, and reflects on his work in the HBO series *Barry*.
Key Themes
- Friendship and Connection:
- Conan expresses his struggle to form genuine friendships with celebrity guests over his career.
- The podcast serves as a platform for Conan to connect with people he enjoys, aiming for deeper relationships.
- Storytelling and Creative Process:
- Bill discusses the importance of storytelling, emphasizing timelessness and quality.
- He shares experiences from his creative process in writing *Barry*, including writing backwards from the narrative conclusion.
- Comedy and Humor:
- The episode features discussions about different comedic styles, character development, and the blending of humor with dark themes.
Episode Highlights Opening Remarks
- Bill Hader humorously states he feels tired from being Conan's friend.
- Conan introduces his new venture, a free channel called "Conan O’Brien TV" launching on Samsung TV Plus, featuring classic bits and interviews.
Bill’s Favorite Party Bits
- Bill reminisces about a past party at Conan's house where he performed a character based on a 19th-century German man who fought Conan in a duel.
- The importance of character exposition presented in a humorous way.
Larry David’s Laughter
- Bill shares how Larry David laughs at bits, showcasing the camaraderie among comedians.
- Anecdotes about performing impressions and his admiration for comedic legends like Dana Carvey and Don Rickles.
Insights on *Barry*
- Discussion on the creative challenges and direction of *Barry*, including writing every episode of the final season.
- Bill emphasizes the evolution of the show’s tone from light to darker themes, focusing on the characters’ complexities and the storytelling arc.
Personal Reflections
- Both Conan and Bill share personal experiences regarding their children’s reactions to classic films, emphasizing the timelessness of good storytelling.
- Bill recalls showing his daughters *Rear Window* and the impact of its craftsmanship.
Birthday Celebration
- The episode ends with a light-hearted banter celebrating Matt Gourley's birthday, including humorous anecdotes about aging and past experiences.
Key Takeaways
- Friendship is Challenging: The quest for genuine friendships in a celebrity-centric world is a recurring theme.
- Artistry in Storytelling: Quality storytelling remains timeless and is crucial in both film and television.
- Comedy is Diverse: Different comedic styles can coexist, and humor can stem from dark or serious themes when executed authentically.
- Creative Collaboration: The importance of honest feedback in the creative process, particularly in comedy and storytelling.
Final Thoughts This episode of *Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend* showcases the playful dynamic between Conan and Bill Hader while diving deep into creative processes, friendships, and the art of storytelling. Bill’s insights on *Barry* and his comedic experiences highlight the blend of laughter and introspection that defines both their careers.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:02My name's Charles Bronson and I feel surly.
0:08That's in, we're using that as the opening But it is not Charles Bronson, in fact It is me, Bill Hader
0:16And I feel tired About being Conan O 'Brien Strand It's a lot of work, isn't it? Fon is here, hear the yell Back to school, ring the bell Brand new shoes, walk and lose Climb the fence, books and pens I can tell that we are gonna be friends Yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends Hello there. Welcome to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend. Joined by my good chums. Sonam Obsessian. Hi. How are you? I'm doing all right. You're doing fine. I am. You're doing great. Oh, okay. Thanks for answering for me. Sure. Yeah. I didn't really want to know. I'm just checking a box here. Your eyes glazed. And Matt Gourley, you're doing fine, aren't you?
1:05I guess if you say so. You bet I do. People want pep. They don't want to hear about problems. I was going to bring up major grievances today, but if you tell me I'm fine, I guess I got nowhere to go. Trust me, you're fine. And quite happy with your salary. All right. We got to talk about something today, which is actually, it's a fun thing. It's just different. It's something called Conan O 'Brien TV. Are you familiar with this concept, Matt? Yes, I am. Okay. Unfortunately. Isn't that your dream? Just more Conan all the time. You're with me every day making a podcast, but then you go home and you get to relax.
1:41Oh, God. Instead of watching one of your classics on the Criterion channel, you get to hear some more Conan. But, you know, a lot of people would like this. I believe that in my mind. I got a new free channel and it launches on Wednesday. I believe that in my mind. I believe that in my mind. What about your soul, Conan? I don't have a soul. No, I have a free, I have a new free channel that launches on Wednesday, May 24th, and it's only on Samsung TV Plus. Yeah. So, kind of excited about this. That's crazy that you should say that because I do have that. I have a Samsung TV and that's, when you turn it on, that's the first thing you see is Samsung TV Plus.
2:18Yes. I can't escape you. You can't escape me. And you know what? Most polls show that people don't want to escape me. We weren't in those polls. Yeah. Because we were imprisoned by him. What a very strange poll to do. by the way. Do you want to escape Conan O 'Brien? Well, the polling's in. Anyway, to celebrate the launch of my new channel on Wednesday, May 24th, for my New York fans, there's a treat in store for you. I'm gonna have an ice cream truck roaming around the city that has my face on it. This, by the way, was my childhood dream. And you follow Samsung TV Plus on Instagram, or you can follow it on Twitter or Facebook.
2:59for live updates on where to find my ice cream truck. And listen, you think that I've gone too far? I have not, sir. Listen to this. Jordan Schlansky is going to be in the truck handing out ice cream pops. Oh, wow. Jordan Schlansky is going to be at the ice cream truck to meet fans. And I think Jordan has many more fans than I do. People are always stopping me and asking me about Jordan Schlansky. find out for yourself if he's real because he's going to be in the ice cream truck handing out ice cream pops and guess what the pops are in the shape of me oh my god you've jumped the shark what is going on here did you make them do this you know what I did I didn't just jump the shark I got on a motorcycle and jumped the fawns on the shark who is currently jumping the shark we've gone that far and it says right here Get your Conan pop while supplies last and come say hello to Jordan Schlansky, my associate producer, who's going to be in an ice cream truck with my face on it, handing out ice cream pops shaped like me, called to celebrate.
4:15I want that put into popular usage that when you do something so stupid, it's jumping the Fonz. Yes. And you've done it. Yeah, I've done it. Yeah. Fonz jumped the shark. Now, we put a shark on a motorcycle and jumped the fonts. Anyway, very exciting. And so check out my new free channel. May 24th launches Samsung TV Plus. Ice cream, Jordan Slansky. Ice cream truck, Twitter, Facebook. Listen to the words coming out of your mouth. What is that? Wait, what's on this channel? It's all Conan all the time. Some of my best routines and bits from over the years. Okay. Classic Conan. Oh, I see. Great Conan.
5:00Okay. Where have you been? Do you know? Are you high right now? I'm not high. I just, you're just like, hey, check out my channel. And then there's an ice cream shop. All you need. But what's on your channel? And it says it on this paper and you're not telling people what's on the channel. You don't need. Listen, when someone says there's Conan O 'Brien on a channel, that tends to be all they need to know. Are you dancing? What are you doing? To avoid that channel. It's my Some of my classic Shtick and bits From years of performing If there's anything I've ever done That you've liked That's going to be on there There's also popular celebrity interviews With A-listers Look at that Yeah That's cool Yeah, it's going to showcase All kinds of people I'm sorry, I'm selling this Better than you are Because you're all about That ice cream truck I'm telling people What they can watch on it Well, you can watch Classic interviews I've done With Jon Hamm, Ryan Reynolds Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise who's Kevin Hart, Will Ferrell, Lisa Kudrow, Dalgadu, Kate McKinnon, Martin Short.
5:57I mean, you could go on and on and on. I've interviewed everybody that was ever born or ever will be born. Anyone who's ever lived on earth, I've talked to them and it's all there on Samsung TV Plus. But it's all about that ice cream. You've gotta get the ice cream. No, this is uniquely curated stuff as 30 minute collections of clips. It's just, I mean, that's all you should have to say. You know? It's like a Porsche. It sells itself. You know? Okay. I'm a Porsche. You think you're a Porsche? Porsches don't come with Conan O 'Brien in the back seat. Yeah. No, I'm not an actual. I'm just saying I'm akin to a Porsche and that I'm low slung and packed with power.
6:41Low slung? I'm manufactured in Germany. What is low slung? What does that even mean? I don't like that. If you have to go over a speed bump slowly when you're driving with me. Anyway. This is the bottom of Fallout.
6:57Anyway, I think, I mean, listen to this. This is going to sweep the nation. This is going to be all people we're talking about. Yeah. And so, wow. This is going to, you know what they're going to do? Anyone who was thinking of launching a presidential campaign anytime soon is going to hold off until this whole Samsung TV, Conan pops in the shape of Conan, ice cream truck, Jordan Schlansky thing calms down. And then they're going to announce. You know what I mean? Can you imagine DeSantis announcing during this? And then his people come to him and say, Governor Ron DeSantis, no one knows you're running for president.
7:32But I told you to have a goddamn ice cream truck with my face in the form of pop. It's too late, Governor DeSantis. God damn it. There's already an ice cream truck out there with Jordan Schlansky, DeSantis. Jordan Schlansky? Nuke Disney. All right, we got to get on to the business of show. We have a wonderful guest today, a fantastic guest. One of my favorites, a dear friend, my guest today, is the co-creator and star of the Emmy award-winning HBO series. And by the way, one of my favorite shows, Barry, which is currently airing its fourth and final season. I'm so excited to talk to him today.
8:06Just, it's a joy every time I get to share any space with this gentleman.
8:17Bill Hader, welcome.
8:22I will say that when you come on the pod or even when I just get to hang with you, I laugh myself sick. I'm sore from laughing at the stuff you do. And it's so much fun to be around you, whether we're recording it or not. And I'm remembering now I had this party at my house and you showed up and we hadn't even greeted each other yet. There's a bunch of people there at some holiday party. and you show up over my shoulder and you're a Germanic guy from the late 19th century who had, you laid it out immediately and I knew exactly what it was, but you just came up to me and you, a guy from the late 19th century in Germany who had fought me in a duel over a woman and lost, but now you're putting a brave face on and your arm doesn't work because of the dueling and you walk up to me and you were congratulating me on my house and my wife and trying to put a brave face on it all, but seething with resentment.
9:19Yeah. Very nice, O 'Brien. Well, it seems like you've done very well for yourself, O 'Brien. I see. And you would say, oh, this is my son, you know? And I go, ah, you have a son. Yeah. With the woman that you loved. Yeah, yeah. It's like, very well. I see. Well, I appreciated the invite, O 'Brien. And I was quite surprised to get it. And you were like, well, it's nice that you drove here. I go, flew. I flew here. Right. But you can try to take that as long as you can. And then, yeah, eventually someone's like, will you guys please stop? Well, that is the nature of this world we're in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:08Please stop that. But I was so happy because rather than, oh, hey, thanks for having me over. Place looks great. This is a really good ham. It's someone I fought in a duel in Germany and I maimed. And I won the woman that he loved. And he's putting a good face on it. Yeah, I was. Your first if upper lip. Yeah, and immediately. Yeah, stoic and maimed. How long did it take you to get all that exposition out? No, it happened immediately. There's no exposition. I think he just turned around and was like, well, very good, O 'Brien. I see you've got a very nice house here. And he went, oh, oh, I'm surprised.
10:45I was like, yes, I was very surprised to get the invitation, O 'Brien. Yeah. And then I think you mentioned since our duel. Since our duel. It all came out very quickly. And then it was like, yes, someone would hand you something. I'm like, this is the only arm that works, dear. Thank you very much. I would love a tuna stick or whatever it is.
11:10I don't know I just was laughing but you know who likes those bits of the old school bits like that at those parties is Larry David and oh my god when you get him laughing it is he really gives it up it's like surprising when people go what's Larry David like I'm like he is a laugher oh he laughs so hard at stuff Also, have you noticed that when Larry laughs, his jaw goes like a skeleton, like ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. It's like if you just started yanking on the cord of a ventriloquist dummy up and down. Da, da, da, da, that's his laugh. And it's kind of crazy, but because his character is such a crank, you don't get to see him lose it.
11:56But I had an experience where Dana Carvey famously does this thing that I absolutely love. We both are obsessed with it. We're both obsessed with it. and he's done it here, I believe, where he's Jimmy Stewart and he's in a car with Catherine Hepburn. He's trying to talk her into pleasuring him. But he also has very specific needs about how it should, I want you to act surprised when I take it out, but not too surprised. And he's very bossy about it. And you're crying when you hear it. So Larry, I'm talking to Larry and I do it for him. I said, this is Dana's thing. and I do it for him. And he was laughing as hard as I've seen him laugh.
12:37And I was gonna die. Cause his jaw was, and so then I see him a couple of days later, I run into him and he went, oh my God, I was at this party and Bill Hader did Dana's thing and it's the hardest I've laughed. And I said, fuck you, Larry. That wasn't a party, that was my party. And I was doing it for you. And he was like, well, it seemed like Hader. It was really funny. No, I think what happened also is that you do the Jimmy Stewart thing, and the thing I do of Dana's, which again is a Dana bit, is the Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas having sex. And that's what I was doing. And so when I would do that, which again is Dana's bit.
13:22We're all doing Dana's bit. It's all doing Dana's bit. But when Dana Carvey did that for me once, and I fell on the ground. I was, yeah. Well, just a couple of fellas. You know. Please, just a little more. He's like, don't worry now. And I think, I want you to take it slow.
13:48I want you to. And then the line that I always remember was, don't buck around now. I don't have a lot of play down there.
14:00And he, it is an old Dana Carvey bit, but when he did that, I just, when he came, he hosted when I was a cast member at SNL, and when he hosted, it did become a thing where I would just ask him, well, could you do this? Or you could, I mean, I was just following him around like, yeah, a puppy dog. I was doing all the stuff that, you know, asking about, you know, Phil Hartman stories and, you know, everything, you know, that was the thing. Well, he is, fortunately, that nice combo of one of the funniest people ever and also incredibly nice. Unbelievably kind. And kind and probably to a fault people pleaser.
14:39But yeah, we took Dana out to lunch. We were here at the studios and then we went, we did something and then we went next door to get lunch and a couple of writers came along. He put on a show for the writers and very naturally, but just was going through all kinds of stuff. and he was doing Henry Fonda. Oh. And it was so funny. And afterwards, the writers were thinking, you know, there's that dynamic that you hear about where the comedian is funny on stage, but then if you see them off stage, they're quite, they can be quite dour. And you see that a bunch of times. And then there are these people that just, nope.
15:17You can sit next to them on an airplane. And my wife and I once got on an airplane and someone behind us was like, kind of heckling me and talking about, ah, they'll let the Irish on this plane and I guess they'll let any scum. What airline was it? Aer Lingus. That was the part that shocked me. I lost you this airline. It's like, welcome to the airline. But it was, sitting right behind us was Don Rickles. Oh my God. And Don Rickles was, and then the whole flight, like cross country, was Don Rickles just peppering me with insults but then telling great show business stories and it was one of the highlights of my life.
15:55Oh, man. I watch his stuff on YouTube all the time. Him on Carson, him on all that stuff. I mean, did you ever see the one where he's on Letterman with Denzel Washington next to him? Mm-mm. Oh, my God. Do yourself a favor. It's so... Just that he was that age. I mean, he was really old. And when he would be on your show, he was hilarious. He was so fast. So fast. So insanely fast. Also, he had this knowledge of, you know, we all know there's this like weird line between music and comedy where somehow they're just things that sound funny and they work and you don't know why. And one of the things he discovered was someone would say something, be like, that's right.
16:33You know, like almost as if to say, you know, what do you want to clap on the back? And he said, what do you want a cookie? Yeah. What do you want a cookie? He said, David Letterman goes, Frank Sinatra's wife's name is Barbara. And, uh, your, your wife's name is Barbara. Right. And he goes, what are you a detective? And he goes, what kind of, what's up with these, what kind of question is this? He goes off on that question and just zeroes in on it. He's like, you make a billion dollars a year and you ask the most stupid question. And I, it's the best. If you could find him with Dick Cavett in the early 70s, it's really, because Dick Cavett's trying to give it to him.
17:13Like, oh, I like your act, but I always did like Jackie Leonard. You know what I mean? And he's like, oh, all right, you know? Yeah. Oh, you really want to. Oh, you want to fuck around? You really want to have a karate fight with Bruce Lee. It's like, all right, cool. And then it's fascinating to watch. It's on YouTube. It's really interesting where you could just tell he has zero, zero respect for him.
17:41When I was a kid, I watched old movies. Oh, yeah. Almost exclusively. And I'm bringing this up because I want to bring it around to Barry, which I'm just I have to say this is and not just because we're friends or anything it is I think the best show on TV I absolutely love it that's really nice you man thank you now keep in mind I don't see a lot of stuff and he's never seen this I've never and he's never seen this I don't watch Barry I've never seen Succession exactly no it is I just love what you're doing with this show and I know that this season you directed every episode I believe every episode and so i kind of just wanted to go back for a second and think you clearly are such a classic film buff and it comes through in your choices as a director and you take that really seriously i know that i think you were telling me once when you were a kid you'd go over to sleep overs and people thought oh these kids are probably watching you know pornography yeah right it's like no you were watching a clockwork orange yeah right taxi driver yeah i was watching taxi driver yeah studying like studying the shots yeah yeah exactly yeah no one was interested in that or it was like see how the camera it's like a subjective camera move i gotta go they have those what the hell's wrong with you subjective camera move why the hell you in my house the father comes in and tidy whities i just hear subjective
19:12Where the hell you come from? I want you to get out of my house. Looks like we got ourselves a film buff. No, but it was more nerve wracking for that. No, but it was, yeah, you would watch that or watch old movies. And it's just what you were kind of interested in. It was, you know, what the thing that you can't describe the thing that you're attracted to, that is what happens. And when I would watch movies, I remember, you know, my mom liked actors and things like that. And what always captured me was kind of the story or the way it was shot or the design of it. And just recently, you know, I have three daughters and I showed them a rear window.
19:57And it was fascinating because I started and they went, dad, this is like old, you know, 13, 10 and 8. and they're just, this is boring. Why are we watching this? Please, no. And then as it went on, they were getting more and more into it. And then it gets to this point, which is one of my favorite parts in any Hitchcock movie, if you can remember the movie where Grace Kelly goes and gets, she goes and gets in Raymond Burr's apartment. Yeah, the killer's apartment. The killer's apartment. And he comes home. And then there's that great moment where she finds the wife's ring and she has the ring and she's trying to show Jimmy Stewart across the street like I found the ring.
20:32And then the camera pans up and Raymond Burr is seeing that she's doing that. And he looks right in the camera. He sees Jimmy Stewart across the street. So he now knows I'm being watched and I now know what's happening. And when he did that, all three of my daughters just went. And I thought, okay, this guy made this in the 50s, early 50s. And there's just nothing that you can do whatever you want in movies, whatever. But if you have good storytelling and good craftsmanship, this is what you get it's timeless you know and it really made me that's why i keep going back to those because it's just like it's just the bare bones craft of it you know i love that you bring up um showing these to your kids because it's i always have feel like i have so much on the line when i show these movies that i love to my kids especially when they were younger because if they weren't having it, I felt destroyed.
21:27But I showed them not too long ago, I showed them Deep Throat. No, no, yeah. Deep Throat. Yeah, and you know what? It's got a lot of subjective camera moves. It's right.
21:46I don't remember this, kids. I don't remember this part. I'm sorry. I saw this in the theater. I was wearing an overcoat. in the 70s. You couldn't get this stuff online back then. No, no. Times Square doesn't look like Times Square. It looks like back then. It had a real life, you know. Subjective camera move. Look at all these subjective dolly shots. Don't you think there are all those people like that, purists, that are still wearing a raincoat while they are on their computer watching porn? Like artisanal vintage jerks. Yeah, yeah. They're just like, you know, this is how you do it. Yeah, and they're making their friends dress up like a nusher, like, in 15 minutes, come in and kick me out of my room.
22:27Say, hey, hey, damn it. With the flashlight, say, hey, knock it off. This guy's spending thousands of dollars to hire people. Hipster masturbators. Hipster masturbators. What was the film you were going to... Just so I can say it. Why am I blanking on he gets dizzy when he... Oh, Vertigo. Vertigo. I don't know. The one where he gets dizzy. Vertigo. What was the movie where you got dizzy, Mr. Stewart? It's not the one where she showers. There's shower movie. There's the shower movie. There's birdie movie. There's dizzy movie. There's the dizzy movie. Then there's the peekaboo movie. Peekaboo movie.
23:10I might see you across the street movie. I showed my kids Vertigo with some friends of mine and they're watching it. And at least they were old enough to appreciate, because I went on a riff at one point about, you know, because it's kind of crazy. Jimmy Stewart takes this - It's kind of Dana's bit in a weird way. Beautiful blonde woman up in this tower. And then, you know, she goes flying out of the tower. And so then he comes back later on to the same mission with, you know - Kim Novak. With Kim Novak. And I just do him running into a nun and saying, I'm just, we're going to get one more try here.
23:46You see? We're just, I'll take her. And the nuns are like, no. No, you were here once with a blonde who looks exactly like she died. She died. No, no, no. I know. I know. No, no, no. I know. I know. I know. I saw, you know, when, you know, when I put the flagpole one more time. I just probably think I'm some sort of a creep. And then I do him going after the second one, the second one, like, ah, I kind of landed in the same spot. the wind must catch oh i get it the wind catches her a bit and that's she's right where the tiles meet the eaves yeah and my kids were like laughing at that and i thought okay at least it's all right yeah it's a it's okay it's funny that yeah you try to watch those old movies and sometimes they work but then man it sometimes when the when the my daughter had a big sleepover with a bunch of friends and i'm usually downstairs watching an old movie they're upstairs like you know whatever singing karaoke and, you know, singing Katy Perry songs or whatever.
24:49And then they came down. I was watching this movie called Jeopardy with Barbara Stanwyck. It's basically a story about this couple and their child go to Mexico and the father, played with Barry Sullivan, somehow gets stuck under like there's a dilapidated boardwalk and he gets stuck under like a piece of it, like a log, and the tide's rising. So he's like, you need to go get me help. and so she leaves her son there she goes out to get help and she finds ralph meeker and she goes and you and he is an escaped convict right so you're cutting back to barry sullivan the water's up to his neck yep and he's talking to his son going like don't worry son it's gonna be all right uh can you just set your pants on fire son let's make a beacon and all this and then she's with this killer and my my kids uh and then i turn around and like more of these kids are coming in behind me and they're watching it and they're just totally they go how's she gonna get back to the you know what i mean and i'm like it's that simple you know and i came into the edit bay the next day at barry and i was like it's that it really isn't that hard if you just can you know tell a good story right that's what it's gonna be and so i get that's why i get very inspired by that stuff i have to say um i had an interesting choice i had to make because i love barry and i've been waiting.
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26:09I loved the way it wrapped up last season. And I was very much fascinated with what's going to happen. And usually what happens is you might get sent an episode, but I got sent almost all the episodes. Yeah, you got sent everything but the finale. And my pact with my son, who adores this show, loves it, and has great taste, is that we watch them together. And he has been unavailable. And I was like, I don't know. And And also, I didn't want to cram. It was like this beautiful meal has been laid out that I'm looking forward to. You want it to last. And so what I did was I decided I'll watch One and a Half Without My Son, which I did.
26:49And then I will watch the rest of the season unfold. And I trust you. I trust you guys. I know that you know what you're doing, but you have painted yourself into such an incredible corner. And I'm riveted. I'm absolutely riveted. I loved it, and I love where it's going. But you've put Barry in this impossible situation. Not just Barry, but I don't want to give anything away, but these characters are in this position where you think, I don't see a way out. I'm just enthralled. Just absolutely enthralled. Yeah, that tends to be what happens at the end of every season. We'll write it, and then beginning of season three, I think my first day in the writer's room, I said, well, he needs to get caught.
27:34and so you know i think we're writing towards that you know i don't see how this can keep going and then we did that and speaking of larry david i saw larry and he goes i watched barry that's it right i said no we have a whole new season and he went why
27:53i go well i think there's more story to tell and he's like but it's done this is because he ended steinfeld with them all in jail yeah right right he's like hey they're done yeah and so exactly i didn't think about that that's true jail means it's over jail oh it's like monopoly uh but he said uh but he said uh but he was yeah he was just you know we so we have that and so you start every writing session for season four and this one was during the pandemic like the pandemic happened we were two weeks away from starting to shoot season three the pandemic happened and when i went to hbo and said is it okay if we just write season four to have something to do and then as we were writing season four we started to go back to season three and so i see three and four is kind of one that's a big season it kind of like we kind of it all kind of rolls into each other but you know season four yeah you start off with him in jail and everybody he loves hates him and no one ever finds the stuff I find funny funny.
28:53This doesn't ruin anything but the opening of the season is Barry calling Gene Cousineau and the first thing he says was did you trick me? Did you trick me? He's such like a child. Did you trick me? He goes, did you trick me? And no one has ever laughed at that but me and Ali Greer, the editor, Frankie Gutman, the other editor, we are crying laughing at how he's like Homer Simpson we say that he has gotten progressively dumber. He's got progressively dumber each season. And so, yeah, we just, you know, it's you start with him there and then it just turns into like, well, what would happen? What would what would you do?
29:33You know, and the character is kind of really dictated. And so you kind of walk through all these steps and you take a lot of, you know, missteps. You go down avenues and doesn't work. And and from working at it, started live for so long and doing this where it It was such an immediate thing. What was so nice about the show is you could create something and feel like good and then walk away from it and then come back six weeks later and go, what the hell were we thinking? This has nothing to do with what the story is about. You know what I mean? It's more about this, isn't it? You know, and that was so helpful.
30:06So we had, you know, two years of being able to kind of percolate these ideas. and then even with that you're still on set going duffy boudreau who's the co-writer and uh my oldest friend we've been friends since high school he yeah he's he because he's been my friend for so long you kind of know how it is where you're like on set my show and so people are very nice and i feel like i'm a very nice boss but it is kind of like you hear the uh bill's on set you know what i mean it's like uh bill's here so it's like you know it's like conan's coming up the conan's cars Oh, trust me, there is none of that here.
30:42I assure you, there is no reverential time. It's more like, oh, God, Conan's upset. Put on your listening ears. Get ready to laugh. Put on your pretend happy face. No, but it is that when I show up, it's like, oh, gee, like, you know. And so it is, everybody's kind of, and it is nice to have your friend from high school there going, like, well, that's dumb. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. Or like, there's a scene in this, there's a little bit in the trailer, so I don't mind, but there is a scene this season where Barry is at his lowest, in the first episode, where he's kind of at his lowest point and he's in the bathroom and I kind of flip out in the bathroom.
31:22That's a great scene. Oh, thank you. Very, very intense. Very intense, yeah. It was hard. It was, you know, you have two cameras, I'm directing it, so it's like, okay, we put two cameras on me, I'm going to flip out and then we'll just keep going and I'm going to hit a wall and we'll just keep going. and um i do the first take and i'm feeling wow i really brought it you know that was really good and the door opens and duffy comes in and goes uh it's a lot of acting dude
31:54i go what i go well that's why it's called you know and you get into like a fight like you did like with your friend from high school like well that's what i'm doing man he's like i don't i mean look i'm from oklahoma what do i know but it's just it was a lot of like a lot of like hey look at me you know and he just walked out and so i got mad i'm like all right let's go again and then and then i in the scene i start hitting myself so the action i'm looking at myself in the mirror and i start hitting myself and behind the wall i hear there he is like there you go come on man but he doesn't have any like you know there's no reverence There's no reverence.
32:33There's no anything. He was like, come on, man. What are you doing? You know? And then Gavin Kleintop, our first AD, and Aida Rogers, our producer, they got to that place, too. And that's infinitely helpful. It's so helpful. And our editors are like that, where I go, hey, you're not going to believe this scene we did. And they look at it, and they go, that's a pretty corny pill. You know? And you need that. You need somebody to say, this doesn't feel like the show, man. I don't know what this is. This reminds me of one of the times that I think was the first time Gary Shandling came on my late night show.
33:06We'd been on for a couple of years and we'd gotten through the rough spot and things were really starting to gel. And then I heard Gary was going to come on, which was just a huge, you know, thrill. Never had met him in person. And he came on the show and was fantastic. And then afterwards he came into my dressing room and sort of shut the door like he just wanted to talk to me and see how I was doing. And he said to me, well, how's the staff? How are you guys? Do you feel good about? And I said, yeah, I do. I really have excellent people. And he said, do you feel like you have too many yes men or something?
33:38And I said, Gary, I would kill for just one yes man. And he was laughing at that, but it was true. That's the kind of family I grew up in. There's not a lot of, I mean, people just sort of make jokes. and I know that we all love each other but we make a lot of jokes and so there's not a lot of hey I just have to tell you your work really inspires me that's not the environment I would be comfortable in just thinking about it what if I said that to you I was like Conan you really inspire me so good I would say how much money did you get paid where's the camera what's the joke you really inspire me to do the opposite to nap inspire you to nap Yeah, that's what it's also the big the best thing that I've learned over the years when you're writing it and shooting it and then editing it just keeps changing each time.
34:32And then what I always do, and it drives everybody nuts, but it's true is I'll sit down and say, okay, you just saw the latest episode of Barry. You go to a bar and you're sitting with your friend and your friend goes, oh, you just watched the latest episode of Barry? Yes. And they go, what's it about? What do you say? You know what I mean? And it's like, well, it's about a guy. And like that order and that of the information is how we should probably lay the story out. And it'll be interesting is they'll tell the story and it's going smoothly. And then you go, that's great, but you've never once mentioned Fuchs.
35:04So we got to go back and make it so he's, you can't, you can't talk about it without mentioning him. You'll talk about the whole thing. Like, that's great, but you never once mentioned Barry, which happened season two. We had a whole episode that I wasn't in. And Alec Berg and I went, you're not in the show. it's my favorite episode yeah it's my favorite episode he goes you're in two scenes that's the only one I've seen oh yeah that's the Emmy winner I thought yeah I thought Henry was buried I'm buried people are always like what's it like working on Henry Winkler and it really is all about the cake that he brings to set he just brings bunk cake I'm like Henry you're losing your mind in this scene and you're on the verge and he's like and then after that can I give the crew the bunk cake like robert wisdom's gonna scream at you and make you cry and he's like right right well i have the coffee in the brunt cave right over and he has a story about everything right over in this corner you know gene shallot attacked me or whatever it is you know he wasn't attacked he was one of the first celebrities i saw when i came out to LA with Greg Daniels in 1985, we went to something and one of the first celebrities, not the, but one of the first celebrities, and you have to remember you guys are too young, but, but happy days in the seventies was the biggest thing in the world.
36:29And the Fonz was the biggest part of happy days. And, you know, in my school, in my English class, there was a big poster of the Fonz on the wall in an, the teacher had put it up just to like try and pacify us. He was such a big thing. So I get to L.A. This will calm them down. This will calm them down. How do we calm these children down? Here's a picture of Abraham Lincoln.
36:56Here's one of the Three Stooges. Oh, no. The Fonz. Cool. Cool.
37:04Look at them, sir. Look at them. We went to some event, and I couldn't believe it, but everyone was going to their cars and like this big, almost like a station wagon pulled up. The valets brought up a station wagon and it was raining really hard and one of the windows had been left open and Henry Winkler came out to claim the car and his wife was getting in the car and he opened up the back seat and he took like this big rag and started wiping the water off the back seat and I thought, what's the Fonz doing? He's some schlub wiping water off the back seat of a station wagon. Yeah. What happened?
37:40He jumped in the car. He quickly went, eight. It is him. No, he's the sweetest guy on the planet. Very sweet. Very nice guy. And so he's a guy that you can also, when I was on set, be kind of overwhelmed or whatever. He would always be like, I just want you to know you're doing a wonderful job. And he would walk away. That's so nice. That's sweet. My son and I are such Barry fanatics that we last year decided we need to go back and rewatch them all. We did that before the last season. So we went back and watched all of them. Again, what struck me was how there's an arc to the tone of the show.
38:22It's very organic. It's a compliment. But if you watch the first Barry, second Barry, third Barry, it's much lighter. It's almost when you start down this path, and I was loving it, the tone starts to gradually change, but it's subtle. And now, if you look at where we are now, you can't believe the arc. You can't believe where you started, which to me is a real achievement. When you're writing it, you kind of start with this kind of idea that is kind of on the face of it could be a very kind of glib idea. And then when you try to do it realistically, you kind of move on. and then it's finding it and you go, oh, this is like, you know, this is the tone of the show.
39:02And I think there was just some touchstones. I mean, one in season one was when Barry is in the car with his friend Chris and he has a choice to like kill him or not. And he kills him and there's no joke after that. And I remember being in the edit and going, Alec Berg directed that episode and we were going, well, the next scene is like a comedy scene. You know, what do we do to, well, let's just put it in there and see what happens. And it didn't hurt anything, you know, and it was like, oh, that's interesting. We can do that. So it was a bit like having some sort of machine that you went, well, it's still, we're still afloat, you know, we're on a boat and we're trying all these things and we haven't sunk yet.
39:37So let's try that. You know, we can go in that direction. But a thing I always thought of as we were moving forward was, um, the movie Rosemary's Baby. If you watch that movie starts off very purposely like a Doris Day movie. Yep. It starts off, there's nothing overtly creepy about it. It's like a very nice couple buying a place, you know, at an apartment, you know, and at the Dakota and it kind of moves forward and then as it's happening, the tone starts to slowly shift, you know, in a way. And so that's always stuck with me in that, to what you're talking about. But then I don't know about you, you've experienced this too, when you're writing something, you're kind of like, it's how you meet people too.
40:20It's like we're writing the character and you're meeting all these characters and it's how you meet somebody. It's kind of superficial and you have your initial take on them or impression of them. And then as you hang out with them, you start to get to know them better and they've just become, you know, slowly and increasingly more complicated, you know, and it's just trusting that. And then also I think the other thing I'll say is when you're dealing with murder, it was very hard for me to be funny about it. you know it could be strange but it was hard for me to have someone get you know the janice moss character get killed and then kind of forget about it and i was like no no when she dies it's for the whole show like you can never forget about her every episode she's mentioned because i think that's what happens when someone loses somebody and so you would be in the writer's room and everybody's going what was the company you know and it was like no no no but we got to hold on to that we have to hold on to that and just and just trust that it'll work but also is it a comedy why does it have to be a comedy yeah that was in their room that's true yeah i get that's funny you say that because i just did it but i do bris i just i've been doing a ton of press so i'm a little tired but uh so i was the last piece of press you did literally this is the last thing you want no i have more press no i have more press after this oh i've done just about every shitty thing you can think of.
41:42I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel. They reintroduced me to shows that were canceled. I went to... I just did Regis. I just went to Bonnie Hunt's house. I said, Bonnie, let me tell you about Barry. And she said, I don't have a show. And I was like, listen, Katie Couric, she doesn't want to hear all these people. They don't know. They don't know me. and said, why didn't you get the episode? I saw you on Hannity. I was on Hannity. I was like, look, look at me when you talk to somebody. When you talk to a man, you look at him.
42:28No, but it is a thing you get a lot of, which is, is this a comedy or not? And it's like, no, we're just telling a story. It's so funny because this season of Barry starts off in this very dark place. I'm not giving anything away, but at one point, Noho Hank is with his partner and they have a cut to him and he's wearing this hat and these glasses and I lost it. it's such a funny and i was and so to me this idea that things can be incredibly dark but then you can you and to me it makes the funny much funnier yeah also if it what we learned was that as long as it stayed within that character where you would say well no ho hank this is what he would wear in santa fe yes yeah you know this is what he would want to wear that's what he's wearing which we always thought was very funny so it's always like when it comes out of honesty it kind of works.
43:25And the things that wouldn't work was when I would, you know, hand of God, you know, comedy nerd, try to come in and create something that wasn't coming organically out of a situation or the characters. And that was usually the stuff we would lose quickly. Well, I built a career on forcing it. And I have to tell you, I'm a big believer. I think you're missing out. Conan O 'Brien's new podcast. Conan O 'Brien, why'd your mind go there? A new podcast.
43:55Why am I talking like Jim Signorelli? There's a reference. Yeah, there's a reference. Jim Signorelli did all the films at S &L back in the day. Yeah, he did. And what I remember is that he wore his watch so that the face of the watch was on the wrist side. Doctor style. Yeah, and the band was really loose. And I remember thinking, I guess that's the way you're supposed to wear a watch. Especially a director wears a watch. I don't think I had a watch then. Yeah, yeah. It was a swatch. And he shot, I remember he goes, here you're a film fan. He goes, I was the DP on Superfly. And he was. Well, I'm glad.
44:30I have a pact, which is anytime someone brings up Jim Signorelli, I have to wrap it up. Oh, yeah. The Signorelli lights on. Yeah, that's when Obama was here. And he was like, Jim Signorelli.
44:43Was the inspiration for. I remember the time I went down to Pink's Hot Dog. That was a bit that mean. that is still my favorite thing that fred and i would do is yeah yeah obama at the base of the capital records building just talking about his time in los angeles he's like i went down to pink's hot dogs where a writer from grace under fire said mr president what are we going to do about this wga contract
45:11i was like i went down to venice beach where in the 60s a band taught us that if we work hard We can break on through to the other side.
45:21Why is it that the more specific an impression is, the better? And then one thing was that he got to run background. I went down to the set of two broke girls. They let me run background, which is... Fred did this, and I felt like he's like, it's when people are, you see the people in the background talking, now they're not allowed to speak, so you got to tell them, hey you go in there now you come out now you're eating you're drinking coffee you two are married now you go in now you can't talk at the same time i'm gonna bring it back to dana which is he does an impression of obama pitching to netflix it was obama pitching and all of his ideas are things they already have so it's it's just so i was like you know well i'm thinking of a show or a bunch of people vying for the you know they're vying for the throne of uh you know and different kingdoms and stuff like that.
46:15And they're trying, and it's sort of like they're all trying to get the throne and different families, and there's rivalries, and there's battles, and a lot of sex. And they just come off and they go, you know, Mr. President, it sounds a lot like, and he's in the meeting with Mrs. Obama. Mr. Obama, that sounds a lot like Game of Thrones. Well, fuck me. Mish, what do you got?
46:36And that was my favorite part. Fuck me. Mish, what do you got? Mish, what do you got? Mish, what do you got? Mish. have you heard him do his his thing I guess he did where he and I think it was Jan Hooks would because at the table reads at SNL Lauren Michaels has to read all the stage directions and that they wrote a sketch that was called Mr. Poopy and it was all stage direction and they wrote it solely so Lauren would be like and Mr. Poopy walks into the thing and then Mr. Poopy comes out Mr. Poopy then walks in And he sees, he sees, he walks out, he sees the mailman. The mailman wants and says hello.
47:15He gets in the car. Mr. Poopy now is in the car. They just were up late going, I just want to hear Lauren have to read through all this. Mr. Poopy, say it 700 times. Yeah, he said Mr. Poopy like 100 times. God, I would have been in there for that. And I don't think I was, I was not there. I would remember that. Mr. Poopy thing, Mr. Poopy defends. He would always, that was the worst because Lauren, he would kind of mumble. And then if you weren't paying attention, you would just hear, and it's a involved person. In walks Bill. And you're like, oh, Jesus. And the read-through's been like two hours long.
47:51Yeah, and you're like, what? Oh, it's me. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, so. I remember the thing that made my soul die was if I'd written a sketch that all turned on one reveal. You've developed like a, you've made a 600-mile-long domino string, and you've hit and the first three fall but the fourth doesn't. Yeah. And you know that this is going to last for eight more minutes and there's not going to be one single laugh. It's the worst. I really wish that there was a time you could just in those moments just say, can we not do this? Yeah, forget it. Forget it. Moving on. Moving on. Kill it. Kill it. Kill it.
48:27Because it's just like we had stuff like that happen all the time where it was just me and Will Forte I remember we wrote my first table read ever wrote a sketch called emmy attire and it was me going it was him i'm trying to remember what it was it was him and and when biking attire and then and then i'm in the other room and i go hey you ready to go to the emmys he goes sure i am and i go uh what are you wearing he's like i'm wearing biking attire what do you mean you know he's uh you know the you know the helmet the the shorts, the fingerless gloves, biking attire. And I go, go change. And he goes, why?
49:07And then I come out in biking attire. I go, because I'm wearing biking attire to the Emmys. I like that. And he goes, what? And then Jason Sudeikis came in in Viking attire. And we were like, oh, this is very nice. Are you going to the Emmys? You know, he's like, you know, I thought you guys said biking attire. I thought you said Viking attire. And it was this whole thing. And at the end of the sketch was, it was like this voice came in and goes, what you've just witnessed happened four years ago. in my mind and then a thing that said from the from the desk of jimmy carter
49:42and it goes hope you enjoyed it and the and it was my first table read and i just remember the look on tina face face was like what the fuck was that and i just was like okay all right i just Well, I'm glad I could bring you here to bring back those lovely memories. Oh, my God. You know what? I'm just delighted to know you and to be friends with you. Thanks, man. And you bring me so much happiness. And Barry, as I said, I watched the first episode and a little bit of the second one, and then I made myself stop because I'm watching these with my son. And it's really brilliant. Oh, thanks, man. I'm really proud of you.
50:25Oh, thank you, man. That means a lot. Thank you, Conan. That means a lot. Really does. That's crazy. No, I'm super proud of you. Thank you, man. Sadly, this must come to an end. We must stop because you're a busy man. And just, I cannot thank you enough for doing this. I can't. Thanks, Conan. Thank you, guys. This is always a pleasure coming here. Thank you very much. Thank you for reading those kind words, just as we wrote them. I love you, Conan. Conan O 'Brien is loved. That should be the name of this podcast. Yes, it is.
50:59Okay, well, take a moment here because congratulations and felicitations are in order. Today is Matthew B. Gorley's birthday. I know B is not your middle initial. Nor is today my birthday. I thought you said today's your birthday. I just, no, someone said this episode was coming out on the 22nd. My birthday's the 23rd. Oh, well, what the hell, man? What? Right before we started, didn't you say this is coming out? You asked me when this is coming out, and I said on the 22nd, and then you go, that's my birthday. Week. Oh, come on. But that's what, Conan's birthday was on the 18th, and we recorded it for the 17th, so it was like the same thing.
51:38It's not like we can't talk about your birthday. I didn't stop the whole momentum and the magic to point out a small accounting error. It is more or less your birthday, but now I started off with this feeling of generosity and everything, and now I don't have it anymore. Wait, I'm just curious. No, it's coming out the 22nd. My birthday is the 23rd. All right, well, who's going to announce that to America on the 23rd? You going on The Price is Right? What are you doing? That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm going on The Price is Right for my birthday. Okay. Have you been on The Price is Right? No, but I have been on more game shows than I care to admit.
52:19Is that true? Yeah. One of those people that just went from game show to game show? When I was younger, yeah. when I was younger. Yeah, well, I'm turning 50. I mean, come on. This is your 50th birthday tomorrow. Can we just say it's today? Sure. Also, people don't listen to podcasts necessarily on the day they're - Look at this guy telling me how podcasts are. Well, maybe someone should. Wow. They don't necessarily listen the day that they're put on air. That's, well, you lost it. You lost it. It's okay, you tried. No, no, no, they don't. You know what I mean? This drops, but then someone might be checking it out tomorrow.
52:49And guess what? If it's the 23rd, then happy birthday Matt Gorley thanks boss and it's the big 5-0 eh yeah that nothing yeah that ain't nothing I don't know what are you talking about I don't know I feel it you know 50 is I mean with all the advances in science and everything 50 is the new 49 48 you know you can't worry about it I know that you're first of all you're a very youthful chap well thanks you come across as very young you were getting kind of upset when we'd mentioned your 60th birthday yeah so you tell me that's because and I'm upset now that you brought it up again I'm trying to get it out on Wikipedia that I'm 51 or 49.
53:25Okay. I'm also trying to get some other stuff out there too. What? That I was in porno for a while. In porno. In porno. Yeah. No, people who do porn don't say I'm in porno. This was a long time ago when people said in porno. No, I think porno was in you. No, it was 1981. Oh, that's a good porno time. Yeah, I was going to say that's my favorite. Yeah, and back then we called it in porno. Did you? Yeah. Sexy. Yeah. Someone would say, hey, you, what's your score? And I'd say, I'm in porno, that's the game. That's how people talk back then. Wait, what were some of your movies? Oh, you don't want to know.
53:59I do want to know. Okay, Look Out, Unzip. Oh!
54:06That doesn't feel like Look Out, because here comes something sexually formidable. It feels like Look Out, you're in danger. Look Out, Unzip was one of my best-selling movies. Yeah. So yeah I'm trying to get that on the internet What was the plot? What's that? What was the plot? Oh there's this guy And he goes to get his zipper fixed He wears these really tight corduroy pants And this guy's packing Let me tell you Is there any sex in it at all? I wouldn't call it sex What would you call it? But there is an extended segment Where just the penis Just keeps coming out And out and out Come on It's like a magician Would pull scarves out of their mouth Yes Well that's it There's a scene Where a magician He does, he's wandering the earth trying to find, you know, a way to make a living.
54:50And then he teams up with a magician at one point and the guy's pulling out, you know, and pulling and pulling and pulling and it just keeps going. And it's called Look Out Unzipped. Look Out Unzipped. Well, look for it. And then there's a little, you know the way sometimes there's a title underneath? Yeah. It's thwabada hobbada hobbada hobbada hobbada. Thwabada hobbada hobbada hobbada. Oh, twice or is it just the one thwabada hobbada? Depends on which country it's released in. I've seen ones that were, you know, I saw a copy that was being sold in the Canary Islands. It's thwabadawabadahabada, coobadahabadadeeba-da-dabada.
55:22Okay. But it depends on where you get it. But all of this is my way of saying, happy 50th birthday, Matt Gorley. Whoa. And you know what? You should feel grateful. You have a beautiful wife. Yes. You have a lovely daughter. Yes. And a gorgeous home. And you get to work with Sona and Conan. And that's a pretty rare. Yeah, I get to work with Sona. Yay. And Conan. And Sona. And Conan. And Sona. And Conan. Two bucks, buddy. Two shunts. The three together that might get work. Two pals. Two pals. And another guy. I'm going to go sit on that two-legged stool and see how that goes. Is that another one of your in-pornos?
56:04Yep. Well, that was one-legged stool. That's the other one I made, which didn't do as well. People were disappointed in the ending. One-legged upside-down stool. sold as a stool. Oh God. And then I'm just this long sequence of me, erect, and people are having coffee, using my back as a table. For my birthday. And I'm in a, I'm at a French cafe. And they're on really tall stools, cause that's, God, it's really packing, yeah. Yeah, this is all true. Oh my God. You know, maybe this is a great birthday present for you. No, it's not. Yes, you can gather the wife and daughter. around the radio that plays podcasts.
56:48No. And you can listen to this wonderful memory. I'm going to salvage this by drinking out of Javier Bardem's cold coffee cup. Ah. Nope, there you go. Now that's a birthday I can savor. Yes. There it is. Well, happy birthday, seriously. Happy birthday, girl. Thanks, you guys. Thanks, we all did. Clay, would it kill you to lean into the mic and say happy birthday? Happy. Well, he told me it was the 22nd. I know, but so what? We let that go. You're still nursing that? Happy birthday. It seems like there are qualifications to that. I don't accept your happy birthday. All right. Well, as long as we ended in bitterness.
57:24Let's get out of here. Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend. With Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick D 'Leal, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf. Theme song by The White Stripes Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino Take it away, Jimmy Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples Engineering by Eduardo Perez Additional production support by Mars Melnick Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts And you might find your review read on a future episode Got a question for Conan?
58:10Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It too could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.
From the publisher
Actor, writer, and director Bill Hader feels tired about being Conan O’Brien’s friend.
Bill returns to chat with Conan once more about his favorite bits to do at parties, the timelessness of quality storytelling, and writing Barry backwards from its narrative conclusion. Later, Conan celebrates Matt Gourley’s birthday by exposing shocking details from his own lurid past.
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