Carol Burnett

0:02Hi, my name is Carol Burnett. And I feel so much love for Conan O 'Brien.

0:34Hey, Conan here. I just gave a short exhale before I started and it made Matt laugh. Welcome to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend. This is, what was they would say, probably in the 1890s, a corker. We've got a corker today. I'm joined by my pal, Sona. Hi. There's an insect. What's that? Flying on this tree. Okay, let me explain where we are. Settle down. We're not in the woods in Brazil. We are in a very nice hotel suite, which we booked because our very special guest is Carol Burnett. She's here. She's doing a junket. and definitely we don't move for anybody. They come to us. Right. But when it's Carol Burnett, we packed up our shit and we got here as fast as we could.

1:19And we got a room full of insects. And then we're in this room and Sona, you have not been able to focus yet. It's so close. I just - I don't fear an insect. It's just so close to your face. Yeah, what's probably attracted to the hairspray. Okay. A lot of it. Do you see it? Yeah. Yeah, there's bugs. There are these two and I don't want to now say the name of the hotel. It's a very fancy hotel. I don't want to denigrate them in any way. But there are bugs swarming around these beautiful, beautiful plants, tall plants. And I'm worried because Carol Burnett's going to be here. And we'll probably have to spray the place before she gets in.

1:55You know? We're pretending we didn't do the interview already? I don't know. Oh, okay. I just go with what you set up. I like to lay out realities and Matt knows to go along. We did it already. Maybe she brought those bugs in. And I saw her release a vial of bugs at one point. Do you think? Yeah. It was incredible. I'm sorry. I tried to say, oh, Carol. I tried to build like an old show business, some suspense. Like, Carol Burnett's coming. This is going to be exciting. And then immediately, Stoney, you went, what do you mean? We already talked to her. And there's bugs here. Well, you just completely deflated our bouncy castle.

2:27I know, I'm sorry. I ruined it. I'm sorry. I am sorry. No, you're not. You love ruining it. I'm not sorry. I really didn't. I don't know if I should feel bad because you're lying. And I needed to point. It's just lying with us off. don't do it night in here well I can't wait till she gets here because it'll be nice for you to meet her okay because you didn't already I will say this which is unusual Gourley you are always a a smartly dressed fellow oh Sona and do not take this personally but you're you have very casual attire you own one jacket I believe it belonged to Dr. Zaius on Planet of the Apes it's a well-worn leather coat that you've had I guess you found it in a bin somewhere a long time ago but anyway you're not someone who dresses up a lot you look fantastic today you you went all out for Cobra net I I really respect her her and I want to I want to look good for her usually most the time when we're recording there's no reason I should look good because I don't care about what other people like you think about wait a minute I know but I'm saying I'm sorry no I really I mean, there are similarities I have with Carol Burnett.

3:37We are both inspirations to women. Red hair and it stops there, I think. No, it doesn't stop with red hair. Many women got into comedy because they thought I was a woman. No, no, no, no. They were inspired that I got the late night show in 93. And then later on, they figured out I wasn't. But by then, it was too late. So, yes. But I did dress up for her. And also, I dressed up for the hotel because it's nice. It's a very nice hotel, except for the bugs. Yeah, I know. Oh, I'm sorry. That distracted me. And then I drove up here and my car is really dirty and there's a leak in it. And so the inside of my car is kind of smells a little moldy.

4:13Can I say something? Let me ask you a question. You said there's a leak in your car. Not that your car is leaking, which would mean oil, antifreeze, one of the other. Brake fluid. What is leaking in your car? I think we have a sunroof and I think water is coming into the car from the sunroof and it rained a lot. Do you close the sunroof? We do. It's closed. Okay. So you have a mildewy car? that's full of trash? Yes. You brought the insects in. I think I did. That's incredible. Of course, because they could nest in your hair. Your hair is... I'm out. I'm out. First the hard G's, then the hair. Why am I in the clothes?

4:46Why am I here? Listen, I made a joke about hairspray. I'm not wearing hairspray, but you do use various waxes, oils, balms, yes? You are using hairspray. No, that's not hairspray. What is it? I don't want to say. Okay. Why? It's old mayonnaise. It's a great trick that I learned. You brought the insects. I learned it from Danny Kaye. You get mayonnaise, you let it cure in the sun for a couple of weeks. And once the smell is gone and it's hardened, you put it in your hair and it gives it great volume. Okay. And then I did that and then mistakenly I let my son eat it. But six weeks later he was out of the hospital.

5:15Oh my God. These stories. This is so stupid. I'm so stupid.

5:22I can't wait to meet Carol Burnett. Yes, a true comedy legend who knows what she's doing and doesn't just babble about. We did this after because if we did this truly before, I don't think we would have felt worthy. You know, I still don't. But no, no, I know. But I'm going to stick with my reality. The reality is we already did the interview with Carol Burnett. Oh, and it's fantastic. But I'm sticking with my old show business reality, which is that she hasn't entered the room yet. OK, there are no bugs. Your hair looks fantastic. My hair is amazing. This is this is the reality I'm sticking with.

5:56You're a good assistant. Oh, and. And we're thrilled and we're excited and we hear her footsteps coming down the hall right now. She's coming right now. We better get this going. I hear her. Listen. No. No, what is she on a horse? What is she coming here with? She's walking, but someone put horseshoes on her, which is just, I don't know why they did that. Oh, she's probably doing a bit or maybe it's the new fashion. Here she comes. No, that's bad. The door's opening. That's the horse winning? Whatever you like. You like it being horse winning or door opening? Oh, that's what it was? I thought it was door opening.

6:35Okay. I wasn't sure. No, horse winning is, I'm a horse. That's a horse. Okay. Did the horse open the door? No. Oh. This is the horse. I'm a horse. She's standing right there. Hold on, Carol. I'm going to finish with this bit in a minute. Carol, just calm down. No, no. Carol, stand still. I know. Okay. Wow. Yes, I don't know. Voice changed rapidly. Just stand still. And yeah. And then the door opened. I'm a door. The door said I'm a door? And all my sound effects, the sound effect ends up saying what it is. There's no confusion. Anyway, enough screwing around because you've just heard some solid C plus comedy.

7:23Let's get to the ultimate master. My guest today is a comedy legend who hosted the Carol Burnett show for 11 seasons. Now you can see her in the Apple TV Plus series, Palm Royale. It says I'm honored.

7:41Carol Burnett, welcome.

7:47I really do adore you. I think you're so terrific. I, well, I can't handle that. I don't know if you could see it, but my soul just left my body. Because I have to tell you something, and we have met before. Oh, yes. I'll never forget the first time you came on the show. My parents called me and said, how did you get Carol Burnett? Because you are in the stratosphere. I'm sure you hear this all the time. But when I was a boy growing up in Brookline, Massachusetts, on Saturday nights, we would all huddle in our living room and there was one heat vent that had the heat coming out of it and we would fight to see who got to sit on the heat vent.

8:26And we would watch that amazing night of television. That Saturday night lineup. Which was absolutely... All in the family. Yep. MASH, Mary Tyler Moore, Bob Newhart, and us. And you'd watch it, and it was just this fireworks display. And then my feeling about it was always that the biggest... They always save that huge firework for the end. You would come on, and we would all sit there and watch it. I've interviewed you several times. I have bumped into you in different places. I've stalked you. I've been escorted out of your home, dressed as the gardener. But I'm driving here today and my assistant had to drive me today.

9:12I said, you need to drive me because I just need to think about the fact that I'm going to be seeing Carl Burnett again. And one of the first things I wanted to talk about that we explore a lot on this podcast, we talk a lot about comedy and we talk a lot about where does it come from and there's this common belief that it has to come from you need some kind of tragedy and you of course had some sadness as a child and you went through a lot well you know what i uh sadness whatever i i i actually had kind of a happy childhood for the most part yeah and uh you know my parents that there was a problem but i knew i was loved yes they they uh were alcoholics and so i was raised by my grandmother we were poor but everybody in the neighborhood was yeah you know her rent was get this a dollar a day 30 a month was our rent and sometimes we barely made that but uh we did save our pennies and my grandmother and i we lived a block north of hollywood boulevard we moved out uh from texas In Texas, and then you moved with your grandmother and you're living.

10:20Yeah, and we were living in this apartment building. My mother lived down the hall, and my grandmother and I were in one room and with a pull-down Murphy bed, and I slept on the couch. But we would go to, we'd save, as I said, we'd save our pennies, and we'd see maybe four movies a week, which would be double features, so that would be eight movies a week, second run. The movies were my salvation. Really? My fantasy was I would go and I'd see Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland, you know, these wonderful MGM musicals where they would say, we're going to put on a show. Hey, let's put on a show. We're going to put on a show in the barn and then it's going to go to Broadway, you know.

11:02So everything was always upbeat. The bad guys got their just desserts. And nothing, when I was growing up in the 40s, was cynical. Right. And I just had this naive, optimistic quality that, and I think it came from the movies, that everything was going to work out okay. It's what they imprinted on you, too, I think, because clearly you were such a shapeshifter in your comedy and all those amazing sketches and in your different performances and movies. I believe if at an early age you see a wide variety of ways that you can be funny and you're young, it imprints on you. Well, I didn't know I could be funny.

11:45I was a nerd in school. I wouldn't know anything about that. You're going to have to help me because that was an incredible jock and a real leading man material. That's why we connect. That's why it's exactly I have a little nerd clubhouse you can join. No, and I thought I would be a journalist because I was editor of school papers and stuff like that. And it never occurred to me to be a performer at all. And so I wanted to go to UCLA to major in journalism, but we couldn't afford it. It was funny. I saw myself on campus. I knew it was going to happen. I just didn't know how, right? So we lived in this one room, and it faced the lobby, and there was a pigeonhole mailboxes for each apartment or for each room.

12:34And ours was there, and I'd look out every morning. to see if we had a letter in our little slot. So this one morning, there was a letter. Oh, but first, guess what the tuition was that we couldn't afford to go to UCLA. This is going to break my heart because I'm going to have two kids in college. And it's going to break my heart. Tell me what the tuition was. Guess. 1951. Was it$1 ,000? $2 ,000? What was it? $43. Oh, my God. Okay, I need an ATM machine and a time machine. $43. Okay. But we couldn't afford it because our rent was, you know what I'm saying? Sure, sure. So anyway, now I get this letter and I bring it back into my room.

13:16And it's typewritten to Carol Burnett, 6434 Yaka Street, Hollywood. Oh, my God. Look at you. Okay. You know, with a little three-cent stamp on it. I open it up and there was a$50 bill. To this day, I do not know where that came from. But that was my entrance to UCLA. That's like an angel story. Exactly. Yeah. And so I got to go to UCLA, but they did not have a major in journalism. I could take a course and join the Daily Bruin newspaper. So I got the catalog, and I'm looking through, and it said Theater Arts English, Theater Arts Theater, Theater Arts Film, Theater Arts. And I said, Theater Arts English, well, I love to write.

14:01And I thought, well, I'll major in that and take the playwriting courses and all of that. But when you were a freshman in theater arts, whether you wanted to direct or write or whatever, you had to take an acting course. You had to take scenery building. You had to take costumes, so forth and so on. So I'm a freshman, and I had to take an acting course. I was terrified. I had to get up and do a little scene or something. And I remember the scene where it would be a hillbilly woman. And I'm from Texas and Arkansas, so that came easily. So I went out and I read this scene and everybody laughed where they should.

14:47And I kind of liked that feeling. Yes. And then after I'd done that and some of the kids asked me if I'd be in a couple of one acts that they wrote, they'd put on. And pretty soon I was starting to do that and getting that kind of response, which I had never dreamed I would ever get. Because had there been a major in journalism, I wouldn't be here talking to you now about all of this. Well, you screwed up. If this is the big prize you get at the end of this incredible story, you made a mistake. I can relate very much to it because I loved comedy and watched comedy. I was a nerd, went to a very good school because I was a grind.

15:32I worked very hard and thought, well, I considered journalism. I thought I'll just do some serious work. Maybe I'll get into the law and then found my way. How did you do it? There was a magazine at Harvard called the Harvard Lampoon. I just heard that there were, and I didn't even know what it was. And I went and I heard it was very competitive and they're mean and they cut people out. And I just started writing because I'd always loved writing funny things. And it was like falling off a log. I did it. They said, who is this guy? That led to me performing. That led to me being a comedy writer first.

16:08But the thing that imprinted on me when I was young, I would say to my influences when I was very young was Bob Newhart yourself and that amazing Carol Burnett show and Warner Brothers cartoons. And I think you can take those three and no offense to Bob, but if I had to, he can drop out and it'll be Warner Brothers cartoons and you. And I know Bob well enough to be able to say that. But that's all the comedy class you need in timing and just the joy of performing comedy. So that was in me somewhere. I had just watching you do your thing. And it wasn't just the sketches. You did something that was very unusual at the time.

16:54Question and answer. You did a Q &A segment on the Carol Burnett show. And I remembered that blew my mind that you could stand out there in front of people, not hide behind a character and talk to people. And you'd see real people in the audience ask you questions. I maintain, and I've said this before to people, human beings have this crazy ability to know when something is organic. They know when it's rehearsed and they know when it's spontaneous. I don't know why we know, but we do. And I would watch those segments and see you be funny in the moment in front of back then these, you know, half the country is watching.

17:36And I thought, where did that come from? The guts to do that on CBS, one of the most watched shows on television, you know, that walking without a net on a tightrope. Well, what happened was when we were going to do the show, the producer, executive producer, Bob Banner, said, Carol, you know, instead of having a comic come out and warm up the studio audience, you should come out as yourself before you get into all those sketches with your fat suits and blacked out teeth and fright wigs and all of that. So that they get to know you and just open it up to Q &A. And I said, I don't think I can do that.

18:20I mean, I'd be too frightened. I'd be afraid that they wouldn't ask anything or that if they did, I wouldn't have a good answer. And he said, well, we'll put some plants in the audience, you know. And I said, no, you know, if we're going to do it and if I can have egg on my face, at least they'll know it's real. You can't fake that. Got to be real. So then I said, okay, we'll do like the first four shows, four weeks. And if it's terrible, goodbye. We won't do it anymore. So I went out that first show. I was terrified. And some people did ask a question or two. But, I mean, if you look at the first episode, it was really goofy.

19:05It wasn't that good. But then it aired. and then the next week some people would come and they were ready to ask questions and ready and then I started to get into the groove and love it and it was it became one of my favorite things to do and it was it was great because I would do maybe about 15 minutes and then we do the show if the show was long we'd only have maybe five or five minutes of Q &A or for sure we would have do the whole 15 minutes but some of the stuff that we did that people were just wonderful there was this one woman she looked like b arthur when b did maude yes kind of imposing a little yeah yeah and she was she got up she raised her hand i called on her and she said i want to come up and sing.

20:00And I said, come on up. You know, well, she was up there like that. And I said, what's your name? I remember she said, Terry McCann. And I said, so what do you want to sing, Terry? And we had a 28-piece orchestra over there. She said, looked at the band and she said, you made me love you in the key of G.

20:24You made me love you. And the audience was laughing, and she went, okay, okay, okay, okay. Boom. And then she started, you made me love you. I didn't want to. She was really, she was good. Now, I came in, and I started to join with her. Yeah. So we were wailing away, and really, because I knew the song, she knew the song, you know, and the audience was clapping. And then it comes to where we're going to end it, right? I had a different way that I thought it should end from what she is. I went, you know, you made me love you. I wanted that. She had a different way. So after all this wailing, clapping and everything, it was kind of petered out.

21:14And she looked at me and she said, you screwed it up. I love that. it's the Carol Burnett show and she's whatever she is. Millie O'Sullivan is telling you, you screwed up. Maybe it was actually B. Arthur. It was B. Arthur in a wig. Well, you know what? Later on, I heard from some of her relatives about maybe five years ago, she died at the age 100 and they played this at her memorial. Oh.

21:56you know i was thinking about when you just said you had a 28 piece orchestra yeah and i was thinking about it because i want to get this straight a 28 this the show that you did which ran on cbs from 1967 to 1978 it won 25 emmys it could not exist today it doesn't that that world doesn't exist anymore you had a 28 piece orchestra and you had 65 to 70 costumes a week and do the math in 11 years bob mackie designed over 17 000 costumes jesus but i mean it was a time when i don't think we'll see that again where you you had a large portion of the country watching and And that meant because of the advertising power and the star power of the people that would come by, it worked out.

22:49It was very different. And, you know, what's happening now to Variety is it just is getting you have that feeling every now and then you'll you'll pick up a magazine, the newsstand, and it weighs next to nothing because everything's online. And it's a magazine that's a famous magazine. It's been around forever. It's glossy, but it weighs it's like 15 pages long. and I think that's what's happening in a lot of talk and variety too is it's unimaginable to have also you know uh when we were casting and everything and I was fortunate enough to get Harvey yeah who was brilliant and uh Tim didn't come on the show as a regular till the ninth season you know it's so funny most people don't know that Harvey Corman uh always knew and I was lucky enough to have him on the show and he came on and lay on the couch like it was a psychiatrist couch and he was wearing like a safari jacket and i was crying i was laughing so hard and then tim we were lucky enough to have him on a bunch of times but you think of tim as always it always being there ninth season yeah but he we had him on as a regular guest yeah quite often but he was doing other shows he did it had a tim conway variety hour at one point but nothing that he ever did lasted more than 13 weeks yeah he even had a uh his license plate 13 weeks but one of my favorite conway stories is he did a a film uh comedy called rango yeah and it was film where he was this inept cowboy yeah tim needs an audience where he can just go and you know so So they're filming and it was not good.

24:29It was not good that, you know, he was kind of hornswoggled. He couldn't do what he usually did. He's in a vacuum because he's on a film set. So now they're on location. And this guy from ABC is going to come and tell Tim that the show is canceled. But Tim didn't know it yet. So he's in his motorhome and he's changing for the next scene and whatever. And there's a knock on the thing. And the guy who came in from ABC was very nervous. It was like he was an underling, you know, and very. He said, hi. He said, oh, Mr. Conway. I'm Warren Tartt. I'm from ABC. And Tim said, yes, hi. And he said, well, stop doing this.

25:14Stop doing this? Oh, my God. Stop doing this. Stop doing this. That's how they canceled it.

25:24I was told stop doing this many times and I never listen. I think that's the magic is you just don't listen. But also, you know, when you talk about the back then, no network today would let me hire Vicki Lawrence. She was right out of high school. Yeah. She was 18 years old. I'd seen her in a contest that she won and we were looking for a gal that would play it in an occasional sketch as my kid sister. and she looked a lot like me and all and we hired her on the spot today no network would let me do that no experience right well you had a degree of power i mean you clearly knew what you were doing and you could say this is going to work i always thought lyle wagner was an amazing choice because yeah he you wouldn't think you've got everything you need you don't need this handsome fella there but then you used him so well and he was terrific he grew as a comedian yes yeah but i mean a lot of it is um i think your show had such a deep bench of comedic ability you could do anything i also think it represented a time when people had a common reference point i think now there's so much media and people are so fractured that it's very hard to parody one thing and everybody knows what you're talking about so there was an era where you could do so many of your parodies of famous movies were movies that we all knew like gone with the wind today i think it's very it's a different time it's hard for everyone to agree on one thing that they've seen and know all the nuances and know all the little bits like when you're taking the curtains out of the window to me oh i just saw it in the window and i mean that's a famous line i don't know if you could have a home run like that today i probably i don't know but there were times when i would do we would do takeoffs on movies that weren't that well known but they but they were funny in their own right yeah so if you knew it it was twice as funny yep you know i remember we did one There was a movie that Joan Fontaine was in called Born to be Bad.

27:40And it was bad. Truth in advertising. And I forget what we called it, something to be evil or whatever. So I was doing a takeoff on that character, and it was very funny. And people who didn't know it, it was still a funny sketch as opposed to a parody. And those who did know it got it doubly. I didn't want to embarrass you, but I'm going to embarrass you because the achievements, you know, all the Emmys, Tonys, Grammys, Seven Golden Globes, Presidential Medal of Freedom. I was reading your achievements and I started to laugh because it's comedically amazing. And I'm halfway through the list. Mark Twain Prize for American Humor, Screen Actors Guild Lifetime Achievement.

28:28There's a Golden Globe Award named after you. And what's interesting is I get the impression that doesn't affect you, that you're still Carol Burnett and you're going to give it your all. And you still have that humility and true optimism. But it hasn't gone to your head in any way, because if I had one of those, I'd be an absolute madman. Oh, I don't know. I'm just grateful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about Lucille Ball because obviously growing up, even though the show had long been gone, it was running constantly in reruns. I Love Lucy. And that was the format for the modern sitcom that has endured for 50, 60 years.