Charlie Day

24:04By a real budget, I mean like one-tenth of what a television show is made for but that was a hundred times more than what we were working for. We shot that pilot, they picked it up, they said, we'll give you seven episodes and then we did seven and then they were like, okay, we're gonna cancel the show but unless you can get a big name attached and Danny DeVito had seen the show and liked it and then here we are, still going. That's fascinating to me that, I mean, you hear stories about you need a big name. Yeah. I always thought like it almost sounds apocryphal, like it's this thing from the 1940s or 50s, but it's true.

24:34Yeah, especially then, maybe less so now because there's so many different things that you could maybe launch something and people, just the buzz of it being a popular show on say Netflix, people might check it out. But then I think to break through it all, yeah, if we hadn't gotten Danny, that would have been it. Now, how many seasons has it been now? This is going to blow my mind when you say it. We just shot the 16th season. That's unbelievable to me. And I think you've broken the record or tied the record for longest running multi-cam sitcom or something like that. We passed Ozzie and Harriet last year for the longest.

25:09And they did about a thousand episodes. Oh my God. We've done so many less. You know, we now we're only doing 80 year. But, you know, I think back then they were like, all right, get to work and you're going to do 50 of these, you know. But now, you know, so yes, we're the longest running. We haven't done the most episodes. And then cartoons like The Simpsons has been around forever. Tell me about it. I left The Simpsons in 1993. And I remember thinking, well, this old horse has just about had it. So I'll just go do a late night show now. Were you at all thinking? Like, they'll never survive without me.

25:47No, I'm deluded, but not that deluded. No, I knew that they survived very well, that they would survive very well without me and probably be enhanced. But yeah, I left and remember thinking like, well, this thing has now been chugging along for like six, seven seasons and it's an animated show and it's very labor intensive. How could it possibly continue? cut to 30 years later. That's insane. Do you think it's time for them to stop? Yes, I do. Oh, no. Who knows? Oh, no. I only said that because I'm good friends with many people that still make it, so they know I don't feel that way. But it's just really funny for me to go, yes, they should stop immediately.

26:33Have they had enough episodes for the characters to have aged a year, if theoretically? Well, it's the beauty of it. Yeah, of course they have, right? 365 episodes? Yeah. Easily. They easily have. But, I mean, that's the conceit, right? They never get older. They never get older, and Mr. Burns never remembers who Homer Simpson is. That's my other favorite. Simpson, eh? Yeah, that's great. And no one knows how old he is. He's like, well, sir, he saved your life. He once was in charge of the moon. He, you know, whatever. You transplanted your lungs into his once. You once adopted him. all these that doesn't ring a bell which is a great great conceit um i would imagine we have every joke we've done on our show they've done on five times like every version well here's the thing is that you know it's it's funny because uh i used to think i used to think about this on late night because we were very determined to like we want to make sure that we're doing sketches that nobody's ever done before and stuff that's really completely out there that no one's thought of.

27:34And we tried really hard to do that. And as time goes on, I think you're not competing against other shows. You're competing against everyone in the world who has an iPhone. Oh yeah. It's, it's very, very, very difficult to outwit all of humanity. Yeah. No, you can't. You, I mean, we are, you and I are, which is nice. No, you and I can do it. Yeah, we can do it. But we're like two gods on a cloud drinking out of golden chalices, looking down at mortals and we're trying to imagine what it's like for them. Yeah, yeah. We have a bigger platform, of course. But no, but it's kind of the point where we can't, even ourselves, where we're like, oh my God, we've done that.

28:12Every time we break a story, we'll write it and we'll be like, oh, we did this. We did completely this and we have to scrap it. You know what's really fun is I love watching people 100 % commit. And this is something you do really well and the other cast members. But you commit, when you commit, it's something I believe in religiously, which is you have to go in 110%. When you lose your shit as Charlie Kelly, you go full, full out. And I think that that's a quality of the show. There's no restraint. When it's time to go, it is complete meltdowns, complete insane meltdowns. Yeah. I don't want to feel as though I've left anything on the table.

28:51You have not. and honestly this is going to sound like actor bs but i go into a like trance like i dilute myself and i'm gone and i'll come out of a scene and be like i have no idea what i did i hope it was good yeah and then i'll get in the editing room like no it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't but that one was that one was good sometimes i can't do that and i'm hyper aware of the camera guy's here the the the boom guy's got a cold he's like you know you're aware but sometimes you just black out and then and just i don't know just kind of barf out a performance and and it seems like vomit on the screen and uh and the audience loves it because they say that's real um there's a really weird thing i you could probably relate to this but there are a lot of things i can't do if it needs to be serious or sincere oh yeah but if it's in the in the name of comedy i feel that i might be able there are times where i've felt i might be able to break the world record for a mile if i thought it would make an audience full of people laugh yeah yeah do you know what i mean of course there are things you can do and obviously that is not the case but there are times where that we did a uh a tour and it's 2010 and you were probably there for this sona but But we were in some venue and it was going really well.

30:08And I was in the crowd. And then I got up on the ledge. Yes. And there's like a 30-foot drop into the audience. I remember. And I'm like on the ledge and like doing stick to make the crowd laugh. Andy rightly was furious. And he was just like, what the fuck was that? You're like the Tom Cruise of comedy. You're going to die that way. Okay. But what I'm saying is I acknowledge I don't want it to be a humble brag because I'm often afterwards realizing, oh, this is the sign of something that needs work. Like, seriously, like this is, I'm a smart person and I have a wife and kids and I love my family and relatives and I know better than to do that.

30:55Why did I do that? It's because I knew that the crowd is this happy, hand high up, but if I could notch it up a little higher, if I stood up on the ledge. Wouldn't that be cool? If you're Tom Cruise and you entertain people by doing death-defying stunts, then potentially it's the same kind of thing where you just, that's how you communicate with people and you are doing it over and over again. I think for you and I, it's easier with comedy because that was probably a safe place for you as a kid growing up. Oh yeah. You know, if you - I couldn't do anything Tom Cruise does. Include run convincingly.

31:32You know, like that's the other thing. I'd like to see it though. No, you know what I would love to do? I would love to do, this just reminds me of something I've really been itching to do and I'm just gonna say it right now, but we've been shooting something for HBO Max where I travel around and meet up with fans, kind of a travel show idea. And we were gonna be, we shot one in Norway already and we knew that there was a possibility that Tom Cruise would be in like the same area that we were in. And I've worked with him before and he was really great. He was very funny, played it perfectly. He was a joy to work with.

32:11But the idea is I want to shoot a segment where he teaches me how to run the way he runs in a movie because apparently there's a whole technique to it. Yeah, it's very back straight, arms are pointy. Yes, and if you don't do it exactly right, you look like a fool. And what I've always thought is I'd really like really good cameras, like him to run. And then I would like to run the way I run and not trying to be funny. Just run the way a six foot four, not very athletic man my age runs. And run, but with the real cameras and stuff and then put the music to it. And I think it would be one of the funniest things.

32:54I think about it. I'd say go get that bear and just set the bear loose And you will run very convincingly. I will run very convincingly. Yeah, yeah. It's funny, the bear, everyone was like, what if the bear had bitten me or something? I forget it was my hand or my head or whatever, but I shoved something in the bear's mouth and I think the bear just recoiled at my neediness. And I saw the bear backstage talking to other bears like, it just comes from a bad place. The needy ones do not taste bear. You can tell he's a middle child. Full of cortisol, and it's just, makes the muscles all sinewy.

33:38You know, when someone's really needy, it makes the meat taste better? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, it makes the meat bad. It makes the meat bad, good, good. Fat and happy is how you want them, but... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know why the bears are smoking in my... But the needy ones, it's just... Of course they are. It's like a sour grape. What was it like for you to go from, you're making this very handheld, like it's a mon-pa shop and you're making your comedy and then you get into something like Pacific Rim, which is one of those movies where I can't even imagine because I can relate to you in the world of, it's always sunny in Philadelphia.

34:18And then when I think about, and even playing a comedic role in a movie, But when I think about you in something like when that first Pacific Rim came out and you realize, oh my God, it's such a good movie. And you realize that you're part of an apparatus that is so massive and you are, it's the complete other end of the spectrum from the kind of work that you were doing. And you did it really well. Oh, thank you. Well, I think I was lucky that I got to have that transition working with Guillermo del Toro. so uh as massive as that movie was he has a way of working that makes it feel you know super personal and specific i had some green screen work but most of the things that i was doing he had built some kind of practical prop that was like animatronic that i was you know reacting to so it wasn't quite like getting stuck into like the star wars remakes where you know it was just all green screen right right you're always acting to a green sock or a green tennis ball yeah And Guillermo had a very, very specific way of working.

35:27I was a huge fan, so I just wanted to do a good job for him. And I still admire him so much and look up to him a lot. But, you know, in the beginning of the film, he was saying, he's like, I want you to do it. I never do this. I want you to be loose and out of control and wild and messy. And by the end of the filming, he was like, on take one, your hand was here. On take two, it was here.

35:55but that's just i mean i really enjoy getting to work within his parameters sure yeah uh every now and then he i'd be doing a take and he wouldn't be liking what i was doing he'd be telling me what to do and i'd be thinking oh boy i'm not giving him what he wants and then i would throw it away and just do whatever i wanted and be like yes like that you know which is always sort of the case that you have to make it your own but um it was eye-opening just uh the way he used the camera and I'm a big movie nerd. So I was just geeking out on his techniques. He was saying, he was like, I like to scratch the lens for the CGI shot.

36:32I'm like, scratch the lens? He's like, I want you to see, I don't know, maybe it's wrong to do an impersonation of him every time. That's okay. But he was saying, I want you to see something imperfect before you see the perfection of CGI. The way his mind was working, I was just eating it all up. And then I would go back to Sonny and we'd be shooting. I remember we did a episode where we're in a police station and it's a flashback and we're talking about this wedding massacre that happened where people were high on bath salts. And I was saying, OK, when we shoot it, you know, we'll we'll do the coverage that Richie Keene, great director, had sort of blocked out.

37:07But I said, hey, Richie, after we get that, can we do a few Guillermo takes and just circle the camera around the actors and just started using more, as I would call them, Guillermo takes throughout the show. and just getting more and more inspired to do more filming and make more things. The only, the thing that would be dangerous there is I know that in a comedy environment, you can take shit for that. Like you just came back from your Guillermo del Toro blockbuster and you're back with your friends and you're like, you know what we did on Pacific Rim? You know, and then suddenly you're right back in Rhode Island.

37:41Yeah, right, right. Yeah, yeah. Movie style, yeah. I think it's like Kaiju. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh, fortunately I think Robin Glenn, our relationship is not like that. So, uh, you know, pretty much best idea wins and a pretty open environment for let's try all sorts of things. So everyone was, was game for it. Yeah. Because I, I got to see your movie fool's paradise and I know it's coming out in May 12th, May 12th. Okay. Only in theaters, only in theaters as it should be. It's time. It's time for America to join again in the cathedral that is a theater, better than a real cathedral because we're going to have that God talk or we could we could do some God talk before the movie if you'd like if you like of course it's all up to what you want to do praise the Lord have some popcorn get your feet off the seat turn off your fucking phone but I saw your movie Fool's Paradise and I really loved it I really love your film and I love you in it and you wrote this movie and you directed it it's very sweet you guys haven't seen it yet because I just got this advanced copy that I watched but it is very much evocative to me of Chaplin Buster Keaton it's it's got a real sweetness to it your character is you're doing that same thing a chaplain did out of necessity and then Harpo Marx did which is you're not saying a word and you're very expressive and you really are playing this person who is picked up by the Hollywood machine and you're at the very center of it and you're very passive.

39:19It's a little bit like being there. And being there, I think was my initial, okay, could I make a movie like being there? No one's going to do that anymore. I guess I'll just do it myself. And then when I realized it's not totally working, I said, okay, can I combine it with Broadway Danny Rose where I have this sort of sad sack guy? And that only then was I able to to sort of land the plane. Your character is so content in his own, I will say one thing, he's so content in his own space that at one point he's at a Hollywood party and he doesn't say anything. He's very much a chaplain-esque kind of character and he falls into the pool accidentally and can't swim and he sinks to the bottom and his hat just settles on his head.

39:58And he's just sitting at the bottom of the pool, making no effort to, and I thought, this is such a great example of how little his character wants or needs and how passive he is. And you're just sitting there when another character comes in and, and, and, and saves you. But had that character not come in, he would have stayed there. The movie would have ended there, which could have been an interesting film, just too short. Yeah. But yeah, yeah. Did an extremely passive character. And then, you know, there's some justification, which is that he's, you know, we meet him in a mental institution and the, The idea is that he suffered some sort of trauma and we don't know what.

40:36Right. He has almost like the mind of a child. And, you know, there's another doctor there who says, well, you know, if we give him enough sort of exposure therapy, and maybe if he has a meaningful connection with another person, he can sort of break free from this sort of regressive psychosis that he's in. But it's going to be a lot of work and it's going to be a lot of effort, a lot of time. And the other doctor says, okay, well, what's our first course of action? And the guy says, well, estate's not going to pay for any of that. so we're going to put his ass in the first bus downtown. Which they do.

41:07Which they do. And then the movie begins. And it's funny, too, because you're parodying Hollywood, and the Hollywood you're making fun of, they're making pictures, and they're making them almost the way they did in the 30s, but it takes place in current times. Yeah, sort of a heightened thing. Yes, it's really fun. Where I thought, okay, I could just set it now, but in some ways now is not enough to satirize Hollywood. Can I make it almost feel as though it's satirizing Hollywood through the ages? Yeah. There's also a great part where your character is invited on a talk show and you've made a generic talk show.

41:47And of course, I'm watching it as me and I'm watching these two idiots laughing like hyenas that bring you out and just find everything funny. And there's part of me that thought, yeah, that's kind of.

42:03It's done with love. It's done with love. No, no. But it's, it's also, it's just, it's, it's, it's parodying every type of show like that. So it's not specific, but it was really, that part was really making me howl. Because it's so over the top. It's a good performance by Jimmy Simpson. Really fun. Yeah. Yeah. I think initially I wanted to see if I could go on a few talk shows and shoot it like that. And then ultimately I felt as though stylistically it would take you out. And then it would take you out of the movie to have like a real world person going back and forth between these fictional characters.

42:38Also, I mean, a lot of movies do that where the character, you know, I taped a number in my day and you see it all the time. And I always thought it was something I never loved doing, which was when the character in the movie has it briefly stops off at a talk show. And I'm there saying, so you mean to say that you think there could be life on another planet? You know, and then it shows up in the movie theater and it just always felt a little lame. Whereas creating a fake talk show, I thought was much funnier. Oh, thank you. It's trickier to make a talk show than you would think because there's no idea.

43:16I mean to make a fake one make a fake one yeah because the sets are big and the audience is big and I didn't have the time or the budget to do that so it's actually only a curtain and then the stage itself right there is no audience there just spoiler alert cut that it's called a laugh track yeah yeah and a laugh track yeah that's right well I'm a huge fan and I love your approach which is you're trying to make people laugh. It's interesting when you take it back to its core, you know, have some people say like, well, what are you? Are you a satirist? Are you a humorist? And I think if you really take it down to the core, I think I might be a clown.

43:56And that might just be the simplest way to put it. And then you can dress it up. And if someone at the New York Times likes you, they call you something else. It sounds a little fancier, but at the core, I'm still, it's the same impulse that I was using on a playground in Brookline, Mass. in 1974. Do you ever feel challenged by it as if, um, I often think, okay, am I going, am I making too many jokes? Are there too many jokes within this movie? Do I have to be more serious? Do I, I mean, there are heartfelt moments in the movie, but I also undercut it frequently. Yeah, no, I think it's really well paced.

44:32I, that was my feeling is that it's really well paced. And yeah, I think, um, yes, there are times where I look at stuff I've done and we're in edit and I'm just like, shut up. I mean, I'm saying it to myself. I'm like, shut up. Right. There's too much. Too many jokes. Too many jokes. And you're, you know, let's just, and, and really sometimes the best things happen during quiet moments, which took me a while to realize. Unfortunately, I realized it, I think fairly early on, but that, that sometimes saying very little and letting someone else talk and just reacting to them naturally is much funnier than anything I'm going to come up with.

45:07I did a whole movie of that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, exactly. Yeah. I find like when I'm writing something, I wrote another movie in the time that I was sort of in the edit room on this and was passing it to some friends and they were saying, you know, like, um, you should make it less funny. And, uh, you know, because they liked the story and they said, you get more serious. And I know that's the right direction and I'll sit with it and I'll do it. But my first instinct always is just, don't people want to sit in a theater and just laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh. but sometimes to get them to laugh, you have to pull a few jokes out so that the laughs land.

45:41Right. No, it's true. I think that's true. What I don't want to do is make people think. And you don't. I really don't. I don't either because I don't know how to think. I've heard that before. People are like, you know, not only did he make you laugh, he made you think. And I go, yeah, lose that second part. Yeah. Lose that part. I want people to be dumber after they've seen my work. I want them to know less. I think I do too. I think I do too. Well, this is an absolute joy, Charlie. As I said, I'm looking forward to talking to you. And it's been a little while. And I love that you're doing this work.

46:17I mean, Fool's Paradise is coming out. May 12th. May 12th. And also, you're in the biggest movie in the world. True. Right now. True. It just made, what did it make? It made$8 billion. It made$8 billion of those little coins that Mario hits. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. just bashed into eight billion bricks their hands are just bloody yeah the super Mario Brothers movie that is congratulations thanks that's crazy it's been a crazy ride just as long as you have a piece of the merchandising you should be fine bad news I got some bad news for you yeah yeah they paid me with video game coins but they make such a fun sound when they rain down that's how they got me that's how they got me uh well charlie continued success as if uh as if you needed it but uh you will have it and uh you deserve it so thank you for being here well thank you i'm really it means the world to me that you like the movie because i do feel like you're my target audience which is to say like i'm like uh i want like a conan o 'brien to like this because if if the top of the comedy guys like it then i'm then it's up to the standard that i hope it would be that is really nice so i just say Back at you.

47:31So thank you. All right. Good night. All right. See you. I never say good night. Good night. Good night. I spotted you. I see you. I see you.

47:48Let's get back into the voicemails. Time to listen to what the fans are thinking. Yeah. Hit me. Hi Conan, Sona and Matt. This is Brian Perman from New York. I'm sitting here minding my own business. doing some work and listening to your podcast, actually, when I get a text from my wife who tells me that she just walked by Conan O 'Brien on the streets of New York City on the Upper West Side. She smiled at you, and you said, hey, first of all, amazing coincidence, but second of all, do I need to be worried? Please let me know. Oh. Worried? I remember this encounter very well, and yes, Brian, you do need to be worried.

48:21You devil. Because I had an immediate connection. Really? With this woman. Yeah. Nice. And things are moving quickly. That's all I'll say. What about your wife? What about my wife? Hey. You know, what about, hey, I'm not dead. Is that what you say when you're like spitting game? You're like, hey. I go like, hey. Yeah. Really? Yeah, a lot of times I tap women on the shoulder and they turn around and I go, hey. That doesn't go over well. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes I'm wearing a Halloween mask. None of it goes. Of your face? No, it's Nixon. It's always Nixon. And I go, hey there. I'm Nixon Hubble no I don't I do I think I'm a genial well you've been with me a lot I'm very genial to people on the street and if someone recognizes me and smiles or something I'll go hi you know hey you're very you're really nice but I hope I hope that this woman in question didn't feel in any way that I was stepping over the line I don't think I was you would have mentioned that maybe she was reciprocating and is kind of thinking of you and dreaming of you you know well I don't think so why Just going off of past experience.

49:30Come on. No, I would say I like chatting with people and I like talking to people. And so I'm the complete opposite of someone who might be recognizable, who would feel like there's time and space was being invaded. I'm the exact opposite of that person. You are. And you walk everywhere when you're in New York. So you're and you're I don't know, you're very recognizable. And it's in New York. It's like you really, I feel like a walk that would take anybody else five minutes takes you like an hour. Why? Because you're saying hi to everyone. I do say hi to a lot of people. And you're chilling and you're taking pictures.

50:04Anybody who asks to take a picture with you, you will take a picture. So if you see Conan, ask him to take a picture. Oh, I had someone ask me recently. They said they had just met me and we were chatting for a second. They said, how come you seem kind of humble and down to earth? And I said, a lot of self-hate. and the person that's what i said i said oh i think a lot of self-hate and the person went i get that

50:31no no i'm kind of kidding kind of kidding what no i but anyway um that's nice i i uh i was walking in new york city with mr adam uh adam sacks remember and we were walking together and you saw a post on like du moi seconds afterwards you want to lean in and tell this we were walking together we were in uh new york city doing some had some meeting or something and then we're walking up uh right past rock and feller center yeah and then uh someone someone texted me a like an instagram post from du moi that was like a picture of me and you together and it was like conan and his intern walking through new york city Intern Adam.

51:14Yeah, I love it. Conan with his 13-year-old nephew. Yeah, exactly. Showing him New York City. Go get us some Cokes. Sure. Yeah. Whatever you want. Go get us some Wendy's. Yeah. That is a funny thing now is people can kind of just keep tabs on you because there are all these websites that say, you know, I just saw whatever, Conan or whoever, eating a Cobb salad. It doesn't even have to be interesting. It's just eating a Cobb salad. I know. And you think, okay, this is going to make it very difficult for me to murder. Because there's going to be a trail. Do you already have a victim in mind? Yes, I do.

51:49Is it in this room, this victim? Can't say. Cannot say. But anyway, sleep tight. Sleep very well. I think it's just going to be hard in general for you to - Fix that second floor window in the kitchen. Oh my God. First, we got to get a second story. Damn it, I had the wrong house. I've been menacing the wrong people. But yes, I, well, O 'Brien, you do not need to worry. And I think I am no threat. Okay. So, but my best to you and your, does anyone say, did he mention her name? No. No. Well, I'll just have to say lady. Yeah. Your lady. You just lost her. She's gone. Yeah. Well, I hope we cleared that up.

52:40We did. Good job, everybody. Good job. And Brian, my best to you. And you're later. You got her back. Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend. With Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Nick D 'Leal, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering by Eduardo Perez. Additional production support by Mars Melnick.

53:20Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might find your review read on a future episode. Got a question for Conan? Call the Team Coco hotline at 323-451-2821 and leave a message. It, too, could be featured on a future episode. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

53:50This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.